Colonial: worsening withdrawal symptoms changing from Paxil CR to liquid suspension

[ChessieCat]

  

47 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Doing my best to re stabilize myself after the "unknown" reason for my bad spell in April and May

 

Did your circumstances change and/or did you get stressed due to the covid situation?  The timing seems to fit. 

 

Since the start of this year we have other members posting about unexpected/worse waves.

[Hanna72]

@Colonial Hi there. I just read this article on histamine and a study in mice with the affects of Paxil.

My english is not 100% , just wondering if I understand it correctly that paxil has a direct affect on histamine.

You might find this article interesting so I will link it here

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4648163/

 

I would appreciate your input on it. Just trying to figure out why my allergies got increasingly worse  after I quit paxil

All the best to you.

 

[Colonial]

23 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Did your circumstances change and/or did you get stressed due to the covid situation?  The timing seems to fit. 

 

Since the start of this year we have other members posting about unexpected/worse waves.

 

Interesting, my situation didn't change all that much, except for in the beginning when we were all kind of forced to do things when we "had" to get them done and not when we felt up to performing them, but that is a constant for all of us in WD.  I don't think I was stressed about anything per se, until I became sick and no one seemed to have I idea what was wrong with me.  The timing was suspicious for having Covid for my part of the country, but unless You were having difficulty breathing the E.R. cut You loose because they just assumed either You did have Covid in which case they didn't want You there, or it was something undefined and unfortunately in a crisis we don't have time to sit around and try to figure out what that is. So unless it was an absolute emergency and they knew how to treat it, they just told you to stay home.  The way it started, I just thought I had a stomach virus that was making my asthma worse, until the strange neurological issues started and I couldn't swallow or urinate, etc.  But then I spoke to a number of people who experienced the same type of difficulty breathing as I did and none of our inhalers worked, it was a different time of breathing issue.  It was like a weight sitting on your chest making it hard in inhale exhale.  So there being other people who experienced the same breathing issue as I, we all assumed it was Covid that was making my WD issues worse. Other that the allergic reaction symptoms, everything I had I did have before from WD, but so many people who have Covid but never had WD symptoms, the cases look similar.  But it is helpful to know that allergy issues are reported in WD, which makes sense because your entire system is out of whack and it can get to the point that once its overwhelmed it just starts attacking itself.

 

9 hours ago, Hanna72 said:

Hi there. I just read this article on histamine and a study in mice with the affects of Paxil.

My english is not 100% , just wondering if I understand it correctly that paxil has a direct affect on histamine.

You might find this article interesting so I will link it here

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4648163/

 

Hi Melissa! When taking about it with the doctor, He said your allergies can rotate, change, etc throughout life.  That being true, I'm sure the stress of WD and the constant kindling response can play a bigger part than just chance.  I did look at the article, but I'm not sure what conclusion its trying to make, if any about allergies, although it would be helpful to know going forward for the rest of my taper.

 

Oh, and for @brassmonkey too, I asked Him for someone who's chronically ill with WD (of any drug, illegal, alcholol, etc),  what are the bodies chances of even being able to produce enough of an anti body reaction to test positive on that test .  Because I told Him, if I was that sick and it wasnt even Covid induced kicking me in a WD wave than I'm in trouble with figuring out the rest of my taper.  

 

He basically said:

 

"Immune systems are sensitive to physical and mental stress, and any of these stressors will create 1 of 2 of these reactions:

1 Immune system is on hyper drive and attacks EVERYTHING. Everything includes due to excessive insulin, weight, blood pressure, inflammation , infections, allergens, stress, alcohol, drugs.

 

2.  Immune system is worn down and pluckered out (from having been on senseless over drive)."

 

And in a nut shell, I think that alone can explain why all of a sudden anywhere in your taper you could come down with severe allergic issues.  At some point Your body is just too worn down and "panicks" and doesn't know what it's supposed to be fighting anymore.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Colonial

[Colonial]

 

Posted January 19, 2016

Day 10;  Another really bad day, Insomnia last night, bad anxiety upon awakening, really bad muscle aches, nausea, trouble swallowing (feels like my throat is numb)  difficulty breathing (lungs feel sore when I exhale), bad head pressure, increased thirst, feel like I'm in a dream.  Not as bad as last Monday and Wednesday were, but close...

 

Well, there we have it..

Trouble swallowing and numb throat and difficulty breathing...

What I had in April added with some other symptoms that lead to people telling me I had Covid ending up in 2 Hospital visits an Ultra Sound and a CAT scan,,,

To see if my throat cancer had grown back...

 

I suppose if we weren't going through the height of the plague with 1,000 people dying a day in my region and if it hadn't started with a weeks worth of diarrhea and my face going numb like I was stung like a bee-allergic reaction I would have put it together quicker.  It had been so long since I had been that sick I didn't remember the swallowing and breathing being a symptom.  It wasn't until I had trouble urinating the 3rd week I suspected it was a system wide autonomic reaction but even then I still didn't know why.  So many Covid patients were and still are having similar issues. 

 

So the Doctor tried to get the pharmacy to order the liquid Paxil at 1/10th the strength, and their arguing they don't make it in that strength, to which we're telling them we know, not normally but we want to place an order to see if they will make it.  They just keep saying it doesn't come in that strength. NOT LISTENING

 

So now I have to argue with the Insurance Company to see if they can get the company to do it directly, or how do we get the order in to them to see if they will make it, since they have the most to loose.  Once they find out they paid for 2 hospital visits, Covid tests, antibody bloodwork and the Ultra sound and CAT scan maybe they will do something with the manufacturer since me dropping another 1/3rd may end up in another hospitalization.  

 

 

[Colonial]

Going back I see I was already symptomatic first week in March, probably before the March 1st drop kicked in and long before I heard the word "Covid".

In retrospect I was probably having WD from the 33% drop on Feb. 1st.

Mid March was then we were all running around trying to get supplies before the shut down and then April 6th about was the crash date.

So my symptoms and worsening condition was "about" 5 weeks out after each drop.

 

My dose chart is an estimate since dropping to the 0.5 ml syringe since each dose I also get HALF of what is in the bottom of the dispensing part below the circular barrel, so over the course of the day it's equal to 1 full barrel of extra liquid. So I'm attempting to find out what that is equal to in extra volume. Since it was steady in about the extra amount of liquid it was dispensing throughout the taper it wasn't that much of an issue but it will be now if I either change to a different strength liquid or have to go to compounded capsules, since I don't want to change both the formulation and have an unspecified percentage dosage drop from 6 lines of liquid equaling 0.12 ml, or 0.24 mg  PLUS whatever that extra amount is equal down just to 0.24. 

 

I don't know if different syringe manufacturers stick to a "industry standard" or if they do their own thing in length of syringe, barrel size, etc. And all the pharmacy would give me today when I called was the name of the manufacturer, I asked for a phone number from the product information sheet but they didn't give me one.  They certainly didn't take the time to go pull the sheet specs up so, that's what I'm dealing with on that end.  Told me to just go "google" it up.

 

[Colonial]

@brassmonkey

 

"The dead space/residual volume for Baxter EXACTAMED Oral Dispenser 0.5 mL is approximately 0.06 mL."

 

Baxter Healthcare Corporation

One Baxter Parkway / Deerfield, IL 60015 DF5 1W-081

T 800-933-0303

 

So since I'm getting about half the dead space twice a day, I'm actually getting about 0.12mgs more a day so I'm closer to still taking 0.24 mgs a day, TWICE what I thought I was dosing.

So my reaction wasn't from dropping nearer to 50% from 0.24mgs to 0.12 mgs,  it was from dropping from about 0.36mgs to 0.24mgs, or 33%?

Does that math look right to you?

 

So since half my dose is below the measuring line, if I dropped 1 of the 3 remaining lines it would be a 1/6th reduction or 16.67%

Thanks.

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Colonial-- yes that math makes sense. Still, making a 33% reduction can cause problems. It's amazing how it can be the little things that trip us up, but we are working with such small amounts and such fine adjustments it can come down to which side of the line you measured to.

 

Something you might consider is diluting your liquid so you have to measure a larger dose volume.  That would increase the accuracy of your line markings. Cut the strength of the liquid in half and you have to double the dose volume to compensate.

[Colonial]

@brassmonkey

 

Yes, my thoughts exactly about smaller reductions, since the April reaction was provoked by a smaller percentage drop than originally thought.

If a 33% drop made me that ill I don't want to do a 16.67% going forward.

Thank you so much for confirming the math, I will look into the threads about how to go about diluting the liquid, hope you are well!

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Colonial

[Colonial]

So after not wanting to be restarting the taper in Autumn which never works well for me symptom wise, I've also been having heart palpitations for about 3 months, which then comes with really bad head pressure afterwards and almost everyday for the past month.

 

So, taking into account my nutrition tanked due to Covid and having trouble getting fresh fruits and vegetables and meats for 5 months ( only had 1 banana from May to September).  Then taking into account I started drinking de caff coffee instead of all regular in May, I did some research and found the neuro toxin methyl chloride in the decaf can land even healthy people in the E.R. with serious migraines for up to 2 months after they stopped the decaf, I figured, well, I suppose it could be one or both, if I'm having a reaction to the toxin in the coffee AND the nutrition could be causing the palpitations, if I take out the decaf and get the nutrition back up and add a little more magnesium and potassium, it might solve the issue.

 

So I've been off the decaf almost 2 weeks, and my nutrition has been getting better the past 14 days with getting more fruits and veggies back into my system, for which, on the 4th day I was promptly rewarded with another 4 days of diaherra and waking up in the middle of the night choking on acid reflux actually IN my lungs and try to cough it out. Still having gastro issues on and off for 2 weeks. 

 

So, knowing it might be a certain amount of time for the changes to help the palpitations, I send a message to the doctor explaining everything, asking for an opinion as to how long I should continue to wait this out before we try something else ( I'm, I just falsely assuming I guess, He would know I mean go for an EKC) If the behavior changes don't help, since it's putting off my drug taper and if it's not related to those, how long do we let daily palpitations go before doing something.

 

His basic reply, was because my symptoms are "all over the place as usual, I can't tell you what to do about this".

 

OK... So... We just continue to have palpitations indefinitely with no treatment-test plan?

 

I mean, I realize this all started soon after the April "cant breathe, cant swallow, can't urinate, constant allergic reaction" issues, so it could be WD related, but is that something you should just keep ASSUMING?

 

Considering He's the one always telling me he doesn't believe dropping such small amounts of Paxil could do these things, then why would you tell someone who's having palpitations for 3 months you have "no idea" where to go with that?

 

It's almost as if, their "official" position has to be one of denial, but then they don't want to test for issues of serious symptoms that are "all over the place" after 3-4 months because they know its a waste of time, but I'm left not knowing or how to go forward with the taper that's been stalled now for 9 months.

 

So, I don't know what to do at this point.  Other than just give up.

 

 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Colonial-- I'm sorry to hear that things are being kinda rough ATM. Hopefully the upgrade in nutrition will help things. It looks like you are only a month out from making that large decrease in your dose, that could still be having an affect on how you are feeling. Also the small doses are really tricky to navigate through. They can play all sorts of tricks on you.

 

Palpitations are one of the more disturbing symptoms we get to deal with. The idea of our heart not working right can be really scary. Paxil is well known for causing palpitations during tapering and WD. I had them almost all the way down and even for a while after jumping to "0". They really are a part of "normal" life for most people. Given the circumstances of WD with the additional of the international health and political climate, I'm very surprised that more people are not complaining about them, as they are a very common stress reaction.

 

Unless they are accompanied by major chest pain, fainting, severe shortness of breath, or severe dizziness there usually isn't a problem. Just very scary. I found this article to be very informative https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-palpitations/symptoms-causes/syc-20373196

 

Hope things settle down and you start feeling better soon. 

[Colonial]

24 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

It looks like you are only a month out from making that large decrease in your dose, that could still be having an affect on how you are feeling.

 

@brassmonkeyThanks Brass,  my last drop was March 1st, so that's 9 months ago but they started alittle over 3 months ago so it's well within the time frame considering how sick I was April through June.  I started taking better notes on timing as I noticed the 2 days this week that I didn't have them were the only 2 days I DIDN'T have carbohydrates in the early afternoon, and the 2 days I did have food in the afternoon the palps started right around 45 minutes later.  So I think that's a clue.

 

I had the afternoon sleep paralysis episodes years ago in the afternoon about an hour after eating, so I think it's probably related to the drop but they have just been getting worse with lightheadedness, so, since I had one heart attack already you kinda think: "If this is a delayed reaction to the huge auto immune knock down how long should it last"?  Of course I realize that's un answerable, but they've been making me more an more lightheaded.

 

But if the pattern keeps holding true about them happening on days with the afternoon carbs that's my answer I guess, I had to cut that out for 6 months or so last time.

 

I also go back and forth about:  "Does this make it a bad time to change over from the liquid to the compound which will be capsules made from the generic pills since I'm destabilized and changing med absorption is going to make me worse, OR is the uneven daily dosage a contributing factor to why I can't stabilize"? 

 

Another unanswerable, I know.

 

Thanks for letting me know it is normal for Paxil, I'll keep that in mind and see if the note taking about carbs in the afternoon continues to show a pattern or not.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Colonial

[Colonial]

@brassmonkey No rush on this, take your time.

 

I don't see any threads on how to dilute  liquids l, only making liquids from capsules or pills.

But I'm having trouble with my math.

 

I'm currently taking 3 lines on a 0.5ml syringe plus half of the dead space 2 times a day.

One line would be 0.01 ml?

 

The dead space in total volume equals 0.06 ml,

So I am getting, or trying to get another 0.03 ml on top of the 3 lines.

 

This to me "seems" to be 0.06 ml, or 0.12 mgs per dose.

2 times per day is 0.12 ml or 0.24 mgs over the course of 2 dosages per day.

 

Do you agree?

 

Second, how do I go about diluting the liquid, like how much distilled water would I add to how much liquid, in order to make a reasonable deduction and how long is that new liquid still good for once it is mixed in with the distilled water?  I'd like to make smaller batches as some people have noticed after a few days or a week it doesnt seem to work as well.

 

I'm a bit overwhelmed about attempting this.

 

Angry that they won't pay for the compound that is only $45.00 a month but they will pay for the liquid that is $127.00 that I now have to tamper with. 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

My first reaction is that you may need a bigger syringe so you don't have to guess at the "dead space.

 

How many lines are there on the 0.5ml syringe? If there are 5 lines each one would be 0.1ml if there are 10 lines each one would be 0.05ml.

 

Your description makes it sound like you are filling the syringe four times to get a full days dose. Which would be twice the amount you calculated. It's the working with the "dead space" that is confusing the matter.

 

The basic rule for diluting liquids is "double the liquid, you get half the strength for a dose of the same volume". Or if you double the volume you have to double the size of the dose to maintain the same dose strength.

 

If you start with a liquid with a stated strength of 1mg/ml and you take a dose of ml then you get 1mg of active ingredient. If you add 1ml of water to the original 1ml of liquid you get 2ml of liquid that contain 1mg of active ingredient. So you have to take a dose of 2ml to get the same 1mg of active ingredient that you got with the original dose. If you only take 1ml of the new mixture you will get 0.5mgai. If you add 2ml of water you get 3ml of liquid so if you take 1ml for your dose you get 1/3 of the original strength.

 

Once you understand the ratios it is possible to make any dilution you desire to achieve the dose size that is workable.

 

Once you add water to the liquid it is only good for 4-7 days and needs to be refrigerated. So working is smaller batches is the best way to do. The commercial liquid can keep for several months in the refrigerator once the bottle is opened.

 

Hope that helps, any more questions just ask.

[Colonial]

@brassmonkey Thank you.

 

Your exactly correct, the dead weight area dispensing is the entire problem, it should not be, but because it does and I am so close to the end, I can't "allow" myself to consume half the dead space one dose but only 25% the next, that would be close to a 15-20% difference in ml depending on what mood the syringe was in that day.

 

The problem with the "dead space" is I never know how much of it will come out.

It will dispense between a quarter to a half of the dead space, so to stay consistent, if it dispenses less than half that particular time, I suck out a little more for consistency.

 

Their are 50 lines on the 0.5 ml syringe, so each line equals 0.01 ml.

I am taking only the last 3 lines (0.03) plus attempting to take half the dead space (another 0.03).

(Half the dead area equals the 3 lines I'm consuming, for a total of 6 lines for ease of speaking.

That is an attempted dose total of 0.06ml, a daily total of 0.12ml, which converts to 0.24mgs.

 

If I attempted to drop from 3 lines to 2, it would be a 1/6th drop, since I would still be getting the extra 3 lines equivalent in the dead space area.

 

What threw me last spring was I went from the equivalent of 9 lines to 7 on Feb 1st, and dropped another line 30 days later on 3/1/20, so I dropped from 9 to 6 lines equivalent in only 30 days.

From 0.36 mgs to 0.24mgs.

 

So, dropping 1/6th of 0.24mgs would take me down to 0.201mgs,

But dropping 10% takes me down to 0.216mgs, yes?

 

My only issue, again, with making the liquid, is the unknown variable of what is going to come out of the syringe that day, although the more distilled water added the less that should in theory obstruct.

 

I just don't see how I get the mixture right. Let's say I attempt to make 4 days worth to start.

If I take what I think is 8 servings- (4 days) of medication out into a small dosing cup, that would be 48 lines on the syringe, since I currently take 6 twice a day.

 

If I then add 8 entire syringes of distilled water (4 days) to it, that would mean I  would need a container that would hold just shy of 9 syringes of liquid.   Then if I only consume 90% of the mixture in the syringe, that would equal a 10% drop in my dose, yes? That would be the equivalent of taking the  individual 0.06 mls of med, adding 1 full ml of distilled water to it, but then reducing my dose 10% by only consuming 90% of what's in the syringe?  Over time, I would just lower the amount of lines on the syringe I consume for a controlled drop?

 

But How do I mix the contents well stirred before each dosing to know I'm getting a correct amount by  keeping the med and water well mixed?

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Colonial

[brassmonkey]

Got my second COVID shot a few hours ago and it has made me quite fuzzy. I have a few ideas but they will have to wait until tomorrow.

[ChessieCat]

@brassmonkey

 

You've posted in the wrong topic.  Oops!

 

Here's the Covid topic:

 

coronavirus-covid19-and-psychiatric-drug-tapering-withdrawal-covid19-vaccine

 

[Colonial]

I think He was telling me He needed some more time to think through all the info I was throwing at time, 

that He had some ideas but the vaccine was making him need some rest.

 

[ChessieCat]

Yes, that sounds right.  I'm fuzzy too but can't blame the vaccination.  However, it would be good for him to post in the topic.

[brassmonkey]

Colonial is right, I was trying to buy some time for her situation, but I will be sure to make some posts in the COVID thread too.

 

[Colonial]

No hurry.

My approx. start date is March.

 

This medication can NOT be refrigerated.

Controlled Room Temperature (68 - 77 degrees F).

 

Paxil Oral Suspension, 10MG / 5ML, 250ML ORAL SUSPENSION (BOTTLE) (apotex.com)

 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

My head is a lot clearer today, it was totally unexpected but that shot really threw me off for the rest of the day.

 

The way syringes are designed the volume of the "dead space", the space between the bottom of the main tube and the end of the syringe, is taken into account when they make the syringe. There is meant to be a little bit of liquid "stuck" there and it doesn't count as part of the measured dose. By sucking out that liquid a person is getting a bigger dose then they had planned on, and as you have observed, it is inconsistent in it's size. You mention that it appears that half of the dead space is roughly equal to 3 lines on the syringe or a volume of .03ml.

 

My first suggestion is to ignore the "dead space" and start measuring the dose using just the scale. So, again as you pointed out, your measured dose would move from 3 lines to 6 or 0.03ml to 0.06ml each time you measure it. This will give a more consistent dose.

 

Reading through your plans for doing the dilution, yes, you can do it that way. However, I think we can be a little more accurate and make some of the measurements easier and streamline the process a little. I was looking back through your posts and wasn't able to find the listed strength of the liquid that you are using. You just answered my question as I was typing 10mg/5mL. Let me crunch some numbers and I will get back to you with a dilution plan.

 

 

[Nomansland]

Hi Colonial,

 

may i suggest using plastic "serological pipettes" (accuracy about +-2%) or glas "measuring pipettes" (accuracy about +- 0.1 to 0.2 %) instead using syringes?

You could be even more precise without issues like dead space and things like that. It may need some minutes

of practice, but there are easy to use like syringes (and in my opinion need a lot less fiddling around, even can be used with one hand).

 

Also, because they are longer, you can work more precise with bigger steps between each line.

 

Ive tried to confirm the accuracy of the pipettes with the gem-20 scale and the results are very good.

Of course its always good if you can work with a bigger volume of liquid, but you can also get pipettes for 1 or 2 ml with 0,01ml (!) lines.

 

This would solve your whole problem.

 

You can buy them for very cheap money on amazon or ebay or other online shops. Add in a cheap pipette controller

and you are ready to go. (To be honest, i would strongly suggest using pipettes for everone who is tapering with liquid....they are superior in all attributtes.)

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

[Colonial]

@Nomansland Thank you for checking in! 🙂

What is a "pipette controller"?

 

[Nomansland]

Well you need either one of this pipette controller

 

(you just stick the pipette in, press the big ball and then gently press the lever up to fill the pipette or press down to discharge. At the end you press the little bulb to "blow out" the little rest in the pipette. -> easier than it sounds! ^^)

 

or this pipette bulb

 

(works the same, press "A" and press the bulb, stick the pipette on, to fill the pitette use S for "suck" or E for "empty", blow out the little rest with the little bulb, the softer you press, the slower the liquid move)

 

There are hundreds of easy videos/description on how to use these. I prefer a pipette controller over a pipette bulb. Just test it a few times with water and you will get how they work in 1 minute. ( :

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

[ChessieCat]

Hayduke posted about this type which is probably the same thing but the name they use is slightly different:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?&_nkw=adjustable volume pipette

[Nomansland]

Hello Colonial,

 

here is a manual for the pipette controller (https://www.brandtech.com/wp-content/uploads/ergo-macro_flyer_2018.pdf)

Its not the same brand, but they all work the same.

 

And here is a description of how to use a pipette bulb (youtube video)

If you decide to try it, make sure to measure on eye level. ^^

And dont buy something called "Mohr pipette" these are not really useful for our purposes, in my opinion.

 

Hello @ChessieCat

 

what Hayduke posted was an adjustable volumetric micropipette. These are different and usually used for very small amounts (under 0.1 ml), but not always.

Ive only worked a few times with these "volumetric micropipettes", its different, but could also be an option. You have to make sure to get one which can suck up the amount of liquid you need. They have different ranges. Advantage is that you can adjust the number and they will (hopefully) suck up the same amount of liquid every time kind of automatically.

 

Overall, ebay is a better place to buy "real" labware than amazon.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

[Colonial]

@brassmonkey

 

I can't find any information that says this particular brand of liquid I am on can reliably be kept refrigerated, but I also can't find anything that would suggest the posted recommendations on the bottle of refrigerating it would harm the med if it was, and but of course, the manufacturer refuses to answer my questions.

 

Do "we" as a website have any record of anyone on this exact particular brand diluting it and, either refrigerating it or not, not having an issue, or what they did with it?

 

I did a 4 day "visual test" to see if, unrefrigerated, their was any noticeable issue, since if their was, that would end that option for the get go. I took what I would have been 8 dosages of med which was 48 lines of the syringe and put it in a dosing cup.  I then added 8 FULL 50 Lines of distilled water.  It diluted to a faint color but still barely noticeable.  Covered it (not air tight) and put it in a dark closet.  Each night for 4 nights I examined it and  each time there was a slight separation but nothing that a re stir it with the syringe did not take back to its original color and form. But by the end of the 4th night no major clumping or obvious issues.

 

What I did think was good news, is now being almost completely water, the ENTIRE dead space area of the syringe empties as well, which would make for a much more simplified issue in that regard and could easily be factored in.

 

Since a full syringe would equal my current dose, I could simply draw out 45 or so of the 50 lines of water for a 10% reduction, and continue down so forth eventually at whatever line decrease I went  at moving forward. 

 

This test worked ok for me once I did it a few times and got the hang of it, although there are some air bubbles in it.  The only thing I dislike is, the solution is now so clear its hard to see on the syringe.  I would like to dilute it less, but at some point this would become a supply chain problem, if I'm using 8 days worth of med to only make 4 days worth.

 

If I'm wasting med and need it refilled more often than what the prescription says I should be needing, its going to set off alarms.  So the more diluted it is, the less waste and I could fly under the radar with what I was doing.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by weigh on scale, ( I dont have one but could get one), and I think drawing out 8 full dosages of the med out of the syringe all at once to begin making the cocktail really cuts down the dead weight variance to an acceptable negligible degree, since the extra coming out is only one time instead of 8 time, and I think we could work out the exact number of lines on the syringe for a 10% reduction considering the entire dead weight now empties out once diluted.

 

The bottom line on this is really going to be if I "can" refrigerate it, or not, and if not, how long do I have before the dosages start to degrade.  24 hours?  36? Etc..  Because if it starts to degrade too fast, I will be out of med faster than I should.

 

Any further insight about this brand since I posted the link on the exact formula, or thoughts or case histories of others who diluted this EXACT brand and what they did with it?

 

Thanks

 

[ChessieCat]

I think using distilled water and keeping in a cool dark place to store is the best way to go.  The product is an oral suspension so adding water will lessen the suspension properties so it is to be expected that it will need to be stirred before using.

[Colonial]

Good point on the suspension. It would "want" to react like that probably.

 

[brassmonkey]

Everything I'm finding says to store it at room temperature in a dark place like a cabinet.

 

Using distilled water and keeping the container and other tools quite clean should make it so you can store the diluted liquid at room temperature also. The bug problem with dilutions is contamination that can cause bacteria or mold to grow.  Keep it clean and there shouldn't be any problems. Also store it out of the sunlight. Some drugs are fine in their original state, but when mixed with water become sensitive to strong light and lose their potency. You shouldn't have any problems keeping the diluted liquid for four days.

 

Adding a toothpick tip or two of food coloring shouldn't cause any problems and will make it more visible in the syringe.

 

I don't see how you would be running out of the original med faster if you are diluting it. It should last longer.

 

I'm not finding where I mentioned using a scale.

 

 

[Colonial]

4 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Adding a toothpick tip or two of food coloring shouldn't cause any problems and will make it more visible in the syringe.

 

@brassmonkey 

You are a genius, thank you.  Planning to start around the 15th. I'll do the math work considering the entire dead weight empties and confirm with you in a few days if you think its right.  Thank you so much.

 

And thanks to you, too @ChessieCat for all your help and mentorship over the years, truly grateful to both of you.

 

 

[Colonial]

 

Ugh,  these liquid food dyes have so many iffy ingredients:

 

Ingredients: WATER, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, GLYCERINE, SUGAR, FD&C BLUE 1 (E133), MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, FD&C RED 3 (E127), CARRAGEENAN GUM, METHYL PARABEN (PRESERVATIVE), XANTHAN GUM, PROPYL PARABEN (PRESERVATIVE)

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You would only be using a minuscule amount.  And they use colouring in tablets and prescription liquids.

 

I have two experiences with blue food colouring.  Went to a church camp as a teenager and as a joke someone/some people put blue colouring in the milk.  Cornflakes with blue milk was so wrong.  The other was doing a food challenge and I had to do colours.  Of course they had to be quite strong.  I can remember being able to taste the blue.

[Colonial]

Lol, wow.

Yes I was just thinking to myself what possible ingredients might be negative to the med but they probably use half of those things to make the suspension.

[Colonial]

 

4 Hours of surfing for the right formula. All the colors available on the market fall into one of the catagories of the top known colors that can be problematic for allergies so I think it makes sense to stay on the color in the med, it is yellow 6 but I've been on it 5 years so, damage done.

 

I went with a brand a little more expensive for  less ounces but it only has 2 ingredients and they are both already in the med: (Propylene Glycol, Water, Yellow 6) so I'm not adding in anything not already in it like that list above so that helps keep it as close to a "Control group" as possible. 

 

I don't need anything else on top of my lack of confidence in getting this right for me to worry about what went wrong if I don't do well and how to correct it. (Too large a drop?  Medicine deterioration?) ETC.  Now atleast I can take "Added different ingredients that compromised the original cocktail" off the list of things that could have been the issue. 

 

Since in the future someone else may have the same problem,

it's Brand is Larissa Veronica and it's Current info on Amazon is:

 

Orange Liquid Food Color (Extra Strength) (8 oz)

 

• UPC : 664435283072
• Manufacturer : Larissa Veronica
• ASIN : B07GQ5QQZ8

It does come in 1 ounce bottles as well, 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Colonial

[Colonial]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:38 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

Reading through your plans for doing the dilution, yes, you can do it that way. However, I think we can be a little more accurate and make some of the measurements easier and streamline the process a little. I was looking back through your posts and wasn't able to find the listed strength of the liquid that you are using. You just answered my question as I was typing 10mg/5mL. Let me crunch some numbers and I will get back to you with a dilution plan.

 

@brassmonkey

I  realized I made a math mistake.

When I add the 48 lines of med to the 8 full syringes of water, this now makes almost 9 full syringes.

If I discard the remaining liquid after only taking the 8 dosages, I've only consumed "about"  8/9th of the med.

 

I will have discarded the other 1/9 of the medication, 90% of which should have been consumed over 8 dosages if I only wanted a 10% drop.

 

Since I am only taking 45 lines of of 50, I suppose I could get a 9th dose out of it, that would last exactly 4 "full" days in the true sense of a day (96 hours), the percentage drop would just be higher. I'd rather not do that, since it would mean half the times I'm making the concoction in the morning which is a rough time of day for me.

 

I'd rather stay on the safe side, do 8 dosages only lasting 3.5 days, and just start with dropping from 50 lines to 46, not 45, if that would be safer? I'd just have to reconfigure what actual dose it is I'm dropping if 1/9th is being dumped.

 

The food coloring has been a great help, I can now see exactly where the 50 line mark is on the syringe when adding the regular water, but unfortunately now I can also see that it still goes back and forth from not dispensing any dead weight area to up to half, so, I don't want to start with too high a percentage drop by forgetting 1/9th of the med is getting dumped out the way I originally figured it.

 

Any other thoughts on making it more accurate?

 

Thank you

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Colonial