Christian: Reinstatement Question

[Christian]

Cymbalta,

I am sorry I dont recall you posting. I went through my entire thread and couldnt find a post from you. I dont know why you would think I didnt like you as even if you did post I wouldnt say anything bad intentionally to make you feel that way. Everyone on this site I like and have expressed that in almost every post. I wont come back to the site until tomorrow. Ill check again tomorrow but if I did say anything please accept my apologies. And thank you for your help.   

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

You may not believe this but people who attempt to help you can get pretty frustrated very quickly when their suggestions are not followed.

 

It is a demonstrated fact that the intense blue light that emanates from computer screens has been known to disrupt a person's sleep cycle. I suggested some hours ago that you turn off the computer and not log on again till tomottow and it is a couple hours later and I see you are still logged on and using the messenger program. (The board software lists who is online at any given moment and where they are on the site, it is available for anyone to read).

 

You are free to take our suggestions or not but I will tell you the reason I am making the effort to log my computer on and write this message: it is these hidden actvities that can mean the difference between someone getting better and helping to regulate their sleep cycle and those wo do not understand the importance of good sleep hygiene.

 

If your sleep is deteriorating you would want to do everything in your power to prevent its slide into total insomnia, which is the worst facet of withdrawal syndrome, and why us that have experienced it do everything in our power to prevent it for we know once it starts, there is not a drug in the world that can fix it and drugs often make it so much worse.

[Luna1]

Christian.

 

I can't help you with the drug suggestion as I was always too terrified to take sleep meds but I know how insomnia feels, I have had it bad for 3 years since I came off Prozac. The trick is to stop being scared and I know it is easier said than done but obsessing about sleep is compoundeding the issue. cymbalta is spot on saying to relax and rest in bed even if you are not asleep, your body is a amazing thing and will take the rest it needs, you will not feel good but you will not die from lack of sleep, trust tour body. I was sleeping 2 hrs a night for a long long time but now I can get 4 sometimes 5, I'm now trying to work on the quality as it is very poor but after 3 years I'm still here. I always found it easier to have my eyes open when I could not sleep as closed would bring on cortisol surges. I also always found being propped up in bed was better for sleep, it may sound silly but I felt my brain was desperately trying to protect my body from a perceived threat and half sitting up was not as a venerable position as laying down.

 

I know you are chronically fatigued, I have that too. It is the stress more than the lack of sleep I believe causes it. Can you do any form of exercise ? Just a ten minute walk can help.

 

Try not to panic and try to limit the searching for answers to your problem. The Internet has its uses and can provide support but you won't find exactly what you looking for online.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Luna, bless you!!!!

 

You have it all exactly right, about the sleeping, down to even the sitting propped up.

 

My severe insomnia lasted 4 months, I could not lie down during that whole time because of the cortisol surges (they manifest as an 'inner shakiness' and they would come on just as my body would find itself falling asleep and slam me back awake in extreme alarm. Sitting propped up seems to short circuit this somehow).

 

This is the thing that has to be managed and it cannot be managed with drugs. It must be gone through and eventually the body calms, sleep comes in brief moments and then longer and longer intervals.

 

At close to 4 years off drugs, I fall asleep readily but still wake often in the night and my arising time is earlier than I would like but I am essentially rested. All these drugs affect the sleep architecture and the body has to re-structure itself naturally or it won't work. The use of even an occasional med makes the body have to start all over again. Narcotics can have this affect as can over the counter drugs such as antihistamines (sometimes people think benedryl is ok to take, it won't hurt will it?) but not even that kind of meddling is ok for the body.

 

Thank you so much for sharing this, I hope Christian takes heart and follows directions.

[Christian]

Luna,

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I know you have suffered and appreciate the time to post on my thread.

 

Cymbalta,

I am confused by your comments about stalking the site. After I initially posted yesterday you quickly posted back suggesting to update my signature. I did that right after and haven't been to the site since. You then posted that I was still on the site at 10:30 pm. I was asleep at that time. My laptop may have been on hibernate with the site still up. As far as not listening, I am guilty of this I know. I've made a mess of things and have no one else to blame but myself. Im logging off for the day. I'll continue to stay off the site as you suggest. Thanks.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Sorry to give you the wrong impression, Christian. When one logs out they are taken to the main page of the site and after I log out I often check the 'Who's online' section to see who might still be here. Right after I logged out your name had disappeared. So you had logged out already. But I decided to let my post stand though I knew it was not entirely fair to say what I did, as though you were still logged in.

 

When I first came to the site I kept forgetting to log out, I just closed my browser and left. I would come back and find a bunch of PMs from people - they thought I had been here the whole time (even all night) and were looking for someone to talk to. I really do know better than to do that, leaving yourself logged into a site leaves your log in open to hacking (though why anyone would want to hack a log in here is beyond me...)

 

I think you should periodically log in, let's say every few hours or so and see if anyone has left a comment for you. What I really meant is that you won't find your exact story anywhere else on the internet and relentlessly searching for validation that you will recover often has the opposite effect, you read a lot of dismal stuff and get discouraged.

 

I myself had to stop doing that in order to recover.

 

Let's wait and see if any of the mods have any suggestions as to what you might do about your drugs. In the mean time keep your doses and times steady and keep using your log to write down your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs and how you feel after taking them. That's the info that is pertinent.

[Christian]

I wish I never updosed my Lexapro. After decreasing it in the mental health facility I got better by the day and even had a window two weeks later at 1 MG. that was three months ago. Now I'm back in bad shape again. I went back up to 15 MG remeron and took a Ambien (12.5 mg) for sleep. Slept 6 hours.

 

I feel my most missing lexapro in my mind. Symptoms include ....

 

Cog fog

Increased anxiety

Mental and physical fatigue

Nausea

No appetite

Gait issues

Heavy head

[Happy2Heal]

I wish I never updosed my Lexapro. After decreasing it in the mental health facility I got better by the day and even had a window two weeks later at 1 MG. that was three months ago. Now I'm back in bad shape again. I went back up to 15 MG remeron and took a Ambien (12.5 mg) for sleep. Slept 6 hours.

 

I feel my most missing lexapro in my mind. Symptoms include ....

 

Cog fog

Increased anxiety

Mental and physical fatigue

Nausea

No appetite

Gait issues

Heavy head

I know my case is not the same or even very similar but I can say that lexapro is the one drug I have had the very hardest time coming off of

I have a long history dating back over 40 yrs, of being poly-drugged and I've been switched from drug to drug, given absurd dose increases that now I know were OVER doses, and stopped many meds cold turkey as told to by drs

and I've had some problems, sure,

but nothing like what I am going thru now.

I had been on celexa for some years, I don't know how many but at least a couple, when the "new and improved" lexapro hit the market and I was switched to that.

I didn't even have depression at the time, I had anxiety and a lot of stress from life situations that were temporary and could have been managed without drugs

 

my dose of lexapro was quickly increased to 10mgs MORE than the manufacturer itself said was the top effective dose (30mgs). I was on 40mgs for at least 5yrs, more likely much longer (it wasn't til my insurance changed a few yra ago that I found out that only 30mgs per day were covered and that I needed special permission to take more)

my memory is not good and I frankly have put a lot of energy into FORGETTING the last few horrible decades of my life, but it doesn't matter, it was 13 yrs total on lexapro.

I tried several times to reduce the dose and several times to quit and it was awful.

I finally got sick of being an emotionless zombie and now I am off lexapro for good. yes I went off too quickly, and even after finding this site and knowing the correct way to taper, things still got messed up when I was at the 2.5mg dose and ended up jumping off at that dose last month.

I could beat myself up over that, but I choose not to. It's not going to help me AT ALL to say, well you screwed up, this is your own  fault....... I/we have enough to deal with just living with the withdrawal, my feeling is, don't do anything to make it worse, including berating yourself for any mistakes. it won't help.

 

so I'm about 30 days without any lexapro now and this is what I"m dealing with:

**anxiety attacks but not constant anxiety thank god

 

**difficulty sleeping- I can't sleep more than an hour or two without waking up, sometimes with what I am guessing is a cortisol spike? I have what feels like a panic attack. I have on several occasions taken 0.5mgs of klonopin just to take the edge off. I ONLY take it when I have a combination of insomnia and rage, because that combination is, in my mind, potentially deadly. I could kill myself or someone else, that's how bad things have to get before I'll add on ANY other drug.

thanks to the conversations on your thread, now I have another potential tool: I will have to try sleeping propped up and see if that helps!

 

**going from feeling like crying to hysterical laughter for no reason, so I'm trying not to go out too much lol

 

**physical joint pain, muscle pain and weakness

 

**ringing in my ears

 

**periods of anger or rage- esp when having to deal with any drs cuz in my mind, now, they are evil and the cause of all that I'm going thru

 

**the past week or so, my hair is falling out in handfuls, If it continues at this rate I think I'll be bald in a couple of weeks.

 

**occasionally I will get the dizziness and brain fog that I had when first going off lexapro, and a wee bit of those brain zaps, but muted, it's almost funny, it makes me think of the brain zaps "last gasps" and attempts to make me miserable and I even laugh to myself cuz I know that I wont' ever have to deal with those again.

 

so yeh, not sure how this helps you except to say that I think lexapro is one of the most difficult meds to go off of. I went off lamictal cold turkey, lithium cold turkey, depakote cold turkey, and several anti psychotics as well. I was on a massive dose of seroquel and went off that with a short taper.

 

Nothing else has caused as much trouble for me as lexapro. I used to think it was a wonder drug because it has seemingly no side effects at first, but then I became an unfeeling zombie who could not even cry when someone I loved died, and I knew that the "no side effects" wasn't true. there were horrible side effects and I wasn't willing to live with them any more

 

 

Do I still want to find a quick fix for the crap I'm dealing with now? yup, I think it's only human nature to want to find a fast and easy way to end any kind of suffering

But I will continue to plug along, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute if I have to, to recover.

 

 

You will get better too, I know you will. and in fact, one of the things that I think will help you is to really believe that, because if you don't,

you may miss all the signs that things ARE getting better, and only see where they are not

 

It might help to even make a list of what is NOT a problem any more, what has improved.

 

I force myself to find at least one good thing to be grateful for each day, and it helps me to stay a bit more balanced.

 

good luck!

[Christian]

Thanks Catnapt. I am sorry you are struggling. I have a few symptoms but the one that bothers me most is the fatigue. I have felt since day 1 of WD this overwhelming drowsiness and fatigue. Every time I use my brain it gets worse. It never goes away. It's only gotten worse. Monica had it on Beyond Meds. Of course I'm on Remeron which can cause drowsiness but I have only been on that since February. I've had this since December when I first got WD.

[Christian]

I'm leaning towards reinstatement of Lexapro at 1 MG. The anxiety, fog, nausea is increasing by the hour. If a moderator agrees I will stick with it this time at that dose for some time barring adverse reactions. Again I was last stable on lexapro at 10 mg a year ago. I reinstated at 5 mg on Jan 1 after severe WD set in. After one month at 5 mg increased to 7.5 and declined over one month then tapered off over two weeks. I felt the best during this WD at 1 mg. after tapering off I was prescribed Prozac which was too sedating and I stopped after a month. I haven't been on lexaoro for 2 months and Prozac for one month.

 

I know I'll have some objections. And justified criticisms.

[Christian]

Disregard. I need to remain calm. Stop posting. If I cold delete my last post I would. I have read so many success stories of reinstatements.  I have yet to find one that the person had this lack of oxygen feeling in the brain (lethargy) and fatigue and reinstated successfully. If I had plain old anxiety it might work. But not after really not being stable on the med for a year. Though I did feel a tiny bit better on my one and only window on March 1st while at 1 MG.  

 

No one needs to post anything on my thread. I am doomed for a while I am afraid. I will continue to walk my dog everyday, eat healthy, read when I can read, do the cognitive games and pray. And I will also have to come up with a plan obviously for the sleep meds.  

 

Below is my daily pattern for the day. You will see I have (and always have had during WD) lethargy, fatigue and drowsiness. It has gotten worse since coming off the reinstatements. Its WD plus worsened by Remeron and poor sleep I imagine. 

 

Meds taken last night

15 MG Remeron

12.5 Ambien

 

Symptoms today (6 hours broken sleep) 

5 AM: woke up to anxiety, extreme fatigue and drowsiness

10 M: get up and make breakfast.  anxiety increasing dwelling on lethargic feelings. Drowsy 

11 AM: cannot follow TV or read (both vision and cog fog). Extreme fatigue, drowsiness and anxiety

12 noon: feel nauseated. Want to vomit. Skip lunch due to no appetite 

1 PM: go to grocery store (anxiety feeling throughout-difficulty speaking do to nervousness)  

2PM: walk dog (usual anxiety while moving)

3 PM: Fatigue and drowsiness much worse

4 PM Fatigue and drowsiness remains bad

5 PM: Fatigue and drowsiness remain bad 

6 PM: ate dinner-same symptoms  

7 PM: feel a little better symptoms reduce. little bit more energy 

 

 

Lexapro: started in 2002 at 10 mgs.

Trazodone: started as a as needed sleep aid in 2003. Stopped in November 2015. 

Ambien: started as a as needed sleep aid in 2010. 

Quit Lexapro cold turkey in June 20015 due to contributing to low sodium issues.

Restarted Lexapro in late November for a week (only 5 mgs) but quit due to dizziness side effects. Side effects worsened for 3 weeks until 

12/24/15: Protracted WD hit, experienced extreme anxiety, insomnia lack of full concentration and social challenges.

Reinstated Lexapro on 1/1/16 at 5 mgs. Increased per Dr to 7.5 MG. Tapered off Lexapro in March 2016.   

Started 50MG of Seroquel in late January 2016 for bedtime to help in eliminate Ambien. Tapered off both Seroquel and Ambien in March 2016.  

2/14/16: Prescribed both Remeron (15 MG) and Temazapam (15 MG) for sleep. Also use Klonopin and Ambien again in place of Temazapam to avoid addiction. However I did take Temazapam 60 straight days

 

In protracted WD with symptoms of extreme fatigue, insomnia, anxiety and cognitive impairment. Depression probably as well.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Christian, 

 

I'm glad you are back!  I think ultimately everyone here just wants to get you better, so no worries moving forward, ok?

 

I am a junior mod and don't have the full comprehension of your complicated history that the more senior mods have, but my concern is that your past efforts with Lexapro were not very fruitful, so I am concerned that that will be the case again.  I don't want to come off negative, but are you prepared for more of the same?  I remember you had a LOT of anxiety back early in the year after that reinstatement.  I don't know what the alternative would be.  i just want to be sure you've weighed this out from all angles.

 

Your Seroquel and Ambien tapers ended very recently and sounded to be fast, so there's likely to be withdrawal from that as well.  

 

I recently re-read this post and think it is soooo helpful, even if it is written with benzos as the focus.  It applies to AD withdrawal as well, any psych meds, really:

 

What is happening in your brain?

 

I'm traveling so will leave it at that, but I am looking forward to seeing what the others have to say.

 

SG

[Christian]

So good to hear from you Squirrly Girl! After an even worse wave than usual I posted in desperation. I was struggling but still reading books and feeling positive then Ive noticed I've gotten worse with the fatigue, sleep, fog and vision and realized the reinstatements must be wearing off. Frustrating as I thought I would improve coming off them not get even worse. Interesting article. Thank you. Safe travels !

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Christian,

 

It is a waste of your time to continue to scour this site and the entire internet looking for a success story you can believe in before you can move forward because that story does not exist. No story has your unique elements and your course of recovery depends ONLY on you.

 

I truly believe that if you were take your remeron at the current dose and stop thinking about reinstatement of any other drug (I think it was a fluke you felt 'good for one day on 1 mg of lexapro') and make no changes in medications (neither adding nor tapering) for a period of one year, that at the end of that year (or even before) you will find your body gradually settles down from the upset of wd syndrome.

 

But I wager you will not be able to avoid the temptation to try another drug or to change your dose of remeron or just ANYTHING because you are like all of us: you are impatient and you think that if you DO something you can help this along.

 

You can't. The body has to heal on its own. You need to give it stability of drugs and NOT change the doses. That's what Alto tried to tell you but you decided to listen to your doc instead and then the docs at the detox center. They have NO other tools at their disposal EXCEPT DRUGS. And drugs just make this worse.

 

Make a daily routine of a gentle walk with your dog, lie in bed and rest at night and get off the computer. And wait this out. Eat healthfully as you can and find something distracting. Ever made moccasins? No? Then go to the craft store and get a kit. But you absolutely have to stay off the computer. You have no idea how much it is harming you. Log in here once a day and give a status report then GET off and do something in the real world.

 

You'll heal lots quicker if you do. After you've become stable on the remeron for at least a year THEN you can think about a slow taper off that.

 

This is a plan you will not stick to, however. I know human nature and we see it all the time. But it is A plan you could consider. Maybe a mod will swoop in with better plan, I hope so. But it won't involve new or changing doses of drugs and maybe not a reinstatement either. Your nervous system has had all it can stand. But we will see what someone can come up with. Then it is up to you to stick with it and not try to second guess things.

 

Your story that you are compulsively looking for, the successful reinstatement story with your special symptom does not exist. It is you and you are writing it now. Give it a good ending, OK?

[Christian]

Thank you Cymbalta. I really appreciate it. I actually have read a few stories of folks that actually stabilized from SSRI WD while being on a low dose of Remeron for sleep. Lol. Now that you made me feel much better about that scenario, I'll stick with that plan. I will for Sure taper off it once I stabilize. Thanks again !

[Christian]

And no more stories for me!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I am going to hold you to that, Christian!

 

I know you will still do it, however, as it is a compulsion peculiar to some people in wd. They can't help it. But if you can manage to overcome it, your recovery will go a lot better.

 

I won't be posting in your thread anymore, I have to find someone else to annoy, lol. But I think I got my point across .

 

Good luck to you!

[Christian]

Please feel free to post whenever you like. But I know I am in hibernation mode vs someone who actively needs help. Thanks again Cymbalta.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Christian,

 

It is a waste of your time to continue to scour this site and the entire internet looking for a success story you can believe in before you can move forward because that story does not exist. No story has your unique elements and your course of recovery depends ONLY on you.

 

I truly believe that if you were take your remeron at the current dose and stop thinking about reinstatement of any other drug (I think it was a fluke you felt 'good for one day on 1 mg of lexapro') and make no changes in medications (neither adding nor tapering) for a period of one year, that at the end of that year (or even before) you will find your body gradually settles down from the upset of wd syndrome.

 

But I wager you will not be able to avoid the temptation to try another drug or to change your dose of remeron or just ANYTHING because you are like all of us: you are impatient and you think that if you DO something you can help this along.

 

You can't. The body has to heal on its own. You need to give it stability of drugs and NOT change the doses. That's what Alto tried to tell you but you decided to listen to your doc instead and then the docs at the detox center. They have NO other tools at their disposal EXCEPT DRUGS. And drugs just make this worse.

 

Make a daily routine of a gentle walk with your dog, lie in bed and rest at night and get off the computer. And wait this out. Eat healthfully as you can and find something distracting. Ever made moccasins? No? Then go to the craft store and get a kit. But you absolutely have to stay off the computer. You have no idea how much it is harming you. Log in here once a day and give a status report then GET off and do something in the real world.

 

You'll heal lots quicker if you do. After you've become stable on the remeron for at least a year THEN you can think about a slow taper off that.

 

This is a plan you will not stick to, however. I know human nature and we see it all the time. But it is A plan you could consider. Maybe a mod will swoop in with better plan, I hope so. But it won't involve new or changing doses of drugs and maybe not a reinstatement either. Your nervous system has had all it can stand. But we will see what someone can come up with. Then it is up to you to stick with it and not try to second guess things.

 

Your story that you are compulsively looking for, the successful reinstatement story with your special symptom does not exist. It is you and you are writing it now. Give it a good ending, OK?

 

Dang, Girl, you said what needed to be said! Christian, I wholeheartedly agree with CW5600.  That's why I wrote what I did about reinstating Lex, because it seemed like barking up that same ol' tree that got you nowhere before.   Sometimes we must "peacefully accept things as they are."  That is my Grind In for now. 

 

Signing off...

SG

[Christian]

Hi,

I feel a little better today. Though my sleep is getting worse (4 1/2 hours last night) as the failed reinstatements are leaving my body I do feel a little better. Able to read, watch TV. Low anxiety. Even the drowsiness and fatigue is reduced. I'll enjoy it while I can. Since its been advised I stay the course, I'll check in from time to time to say hello if that's OK. So good to hear from you and best of luck to all with healing.

[AliG]

Hi Christian. 4.5 hrs sleep is not too bad.  It's almost 2 am here. ( Australia). I'll probably not sleep at all tonight , but that's fine . I try to practice acceptance. You sound pretty good !  Be thankful . I hope it goes well for you from hereon in . I think you have to learn patience and acceptance to be able to deal with this. Until you do , it could continue to go pear shaped. Many here have tried to help , but you have gone your own way . If you can  learn from all this , you will make it. You have the will if you can just harness it in the right direction. You seem to be heading that way . I hope you make it . I'm sure you will !  Just breathe a little and practice extreme self - care. Study Symptoms & Self Care . Learn how to manage your symptoms so as to be ultimately drug - free at the end of the day . 

Wishing you the best.

Ali

[Christian]

Thank you Alig. I don't know if I mentioned this but I have found 4 WD sufferers who have turned around their sleep in the last week. Their ranges of insomnia varied from 8 months to 2 years.

 

Even thoigh I messed up by not listening it doesn't take away from the fact I care and worry about everyone on here.

 

Gonna walk my dog and start reading my latest book before this micro window closes! Take care.

[Lilu]

For the record, I also told Christian basically the same thing that all of you have been telling him. I was hoping that he would listen to me because I did the same crazy sh*t with medications that he does.

 

This is what I said:

 

Let me give you a piece of advice, because you ARE doing all the things I did wrong, which put me into the worst torturous hell of my life for an entire year. STOP TRYING NEW MEDS. This is probably why Alto is mad, because you come here for advice but don't take it.

I did the same. And my effing psychiatrist was all to happy to prescribe whatever drug I wanted to try next.  PLEASE listen to me. Do not do this.

Definitely do not try Gabapentin. I tried it, and it made me into a zombie, did not help with sleep, and prompted the start of Myoclonus, a movement disorder that I'm still struggling with a year later.

 

Go back to a drug that worked for you and stabilize. If it's Trazedone, then just do that and nothing else. YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO STABILIZE.  It will get better I promise.  This trying of drugs only destabilizes your brain and nervous system further.  This knee-jerk reaction to symptoms with this or that drug is CRIMINAL. I paid for it dearly with my health and my sanity.  I was warned about this many times by people on here, and they also got mad at me for not listening to them.  I understand where you are coming from, I was also desperate to sleep. So desperate I would do anything.  I deeply believed that I couldn't sleep without Ambien or Klonopin. Once they became paradoxical and started causing severe Akathisia, is when I had no choice but to stop taking those meds.

 

I also had to start taking my insomnia in stride. I was able to do this because I could finally sleep for 3 to 5 hours straight. In the first 3 or 4 months, I would often wake up in the middle of the night, but because the medication was making me calm, I just occupied myself with something, like unloading the dishwasher, listening to the radio, or watching a calming cooking show. Eventually I would get sleepy and would go back to bed. For the first time in a year, I started to fall back asleep early in the morning. 

During withdrawal, when waking at night, I would immediately grab an Ambien or Klonopin, or some other sleep drug that only made things worse, because I was so anxious about not sleeping.  Getting rid of that sleep anxiety is crucial.  Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can help with this, by examining your beliefs about sleep.

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I read your thread. Wow, Alto sure spent a lot of her time and energy on you, but you really didn't do what she recommended. Of course neither did I, which was a mistake. The advice I'm giving you, is basically the same advice she and others are giving you throughout your thread. If I were you, I would read it all again.

I totally understand why she gave up on you. She really does know what she's talking about when it comes to withdrawal and what drugs do. 

If you cannot take other people's advice and learn from their mistakes, like my mistakes, cause I did the same crazy **** with meds that you did, then you will eventually learn from your own mistakes. That, or wind up on a drug coctail concocted by clueless psychiatrists who really don't want to deal with difficult problems and just want to stick you into a partial hospital setting so that they can make money from medicare and medicaid.  

I was in such a setting for 2 months, and my mental and physical state went from bad to much much worse.

Psychiatrist often give these powerful and dangerous drugs to be used on an "as needed" basis. This is wrong and criminal. Stay away from antipsychotics unless you suffer from paranoia or other schizotypal disorder. Stop taking drugs on an as needed basis.  Be consistent. Make only one change at a time. Your thread is full of this advice.

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Christian, you're not hearing what any of us are saying, and that's really frustrating. I understand you completely and my withdrawal was just as bad if not worse. I was crying heavily every day for 6 to 12 hours per day and then not sleeping at night.  All the drugs I tried were bad. Rameron was a disaster and so was Gabapentin. These drugs will not help you. The reason Lexapro didn't help is because you were yanking your brain with Ambien and Seroquel and supplements, which also make things worse in withdrawal.

You have to forget about taking medication to get a few hours of sleep. Think big picture. Get off of Rameron and go back to Trazedone, is my recommendation.  Since Trazedone worked for you in the past, it will again. Also, at higher doses, Trazedone is an antidepressant.  You have to let your nervous system heal, that is the only way your insomnia will go away.

Once I quit Klonopin, Ambien, and Gabapentin, within 3 weeks Lexapro started helping me sleep - and only on 2 mgs of Lexapro. That's after an entire year of HORRIFIC insomnia.  I was also put on Baclofen, for the myoclonus, which may have helped, but was probably a placebo effect.

 

 You have to start listening to what we are all saying.  I don't know how to make it any clearer. Just like you, I believed that I can't sleep without drugs. The Ambien and Klonopin worked less and less, it got so bad that I was taking them 3 times per night despite the fact that they started causing restlessness so severe that I couldn't even stand still. I was pacing up and down my apartment in the middle of the night, hyperventilating, flailing my arms and legs, my heart racing.  Do not let yourself get to this point.

The only thing that will help, is getting on ONE medication that works, and then letting your brain heal with no other drug intervention.

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All of these symptoms you mention, Rameron causes them. I had horrible drowsiness, brain fog, blurred vision, heavy head, and worsened depression while on Rameron. My eyes literaly were glazed over. It also causes sugar and carb cravings, with a diabetes risk.

Tamazapam is an extremely addictive drug. All these drugs are, but benzos are the worst.

You are playing with fire by interchanging all these benzo drugs - Tamazapam, klonopin, ambien, lunesta.

I did exactly the same thing, and I only got worse.

[Happy2Heal]

glad you are finding success stories that can help encourage you. 

I know it helps anytime I see that others are making it thru the rough spots and coming out ok

 

what works for one person may not work for you, but just to know that healing can and will happen- that give us hope

 

PS what kind of dog do you have?

[Christian]

Thanks Catnapt. I have a yellow lab named Lexie.

[Christian]

For the record, I also told Christian basically the same thing that all of you have been telling him. I was hoping that he would listen to me because I did the same crazy sh*t with medications that he does.

 

This is what I said:

Let me give you a piece of advice, because you ARE doing all the things I did wrong, which put me into the worst torturous hell of my life for an entire year. STOP TRYING NEW MEDS. This is probably why Alto is mad, because you come here for advice but don't take it.

I did the same. And my effing psychiatrist was all to happy to prescribe whatever drug I wanted to try next. PLEASE listen to me. Do not do this.

Definitely do not try Gabapentin. I tried it, and it made me into a zombie, did not help with sleep, and prompted the start of Myoclonus, a movement disorder that I'm still struggling with a year later.

Go back to a drug that worked for you and stabilize. If it's Trazedone, then just do that and nothing else. YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO STABILIZE. It will get better I promise. This trying of drugs only destabilizes your brain and nervous system further. This knee-jerk reaction to symptoms with this or that drug is CRIMINAL. I paid for it dearly with my health and my sanity. I was warned about this many times by people on here, and they also got mad at me for not listening to them. I understand where you are coming from, I was also desperate to sleep. So desperate I would do anything. I deeply believed that I couldn't sleep without Ambien or Klonopin. Once they became paradoxical and started causing severe Akathisia, is when I had no choice but to stop taking those meds.

I also had to start taking my insomnia in stride. I was able to do this because I could finally sleep for 3 to 5 hours straight. In the first 3 or 4 months, I would often wake up in the middle of the night, but because the medication was making me calm, I just occupied myself with something, like unloading the dishwasher, listening to the radio, or watching a calming cooking show. Eventually I would get sleepy and would go back to bed. For the first time in a year, I started to fall back asleep early in the morning.

During withdrawal, when waking at night, I would immediately grab an Ambien or Klonopin, or some other sleep drug that only made things worse, because I was so anxious about not sleeping. Getting rid of that sleep anxiety is crucial. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can help with this, by examining your beliefs about sleep.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I read your thread. Wow, Alto sure spent a lot of her time and energy on you, but you really didn't do what she recommended. Of course neither did I, which was a mistake. The advice I'm giving you, is basically the same advice she and others are giving you throughout your thread. If I were you, I would read it all again.

I totally understand why she gave up on you. She really does know what she's talking about when it comes to withdrawal and what drugs do.

If you cannot take other people's advice and learn from their mistakes, like my mistakes, cause I did the same crazy **** with meds that you did, then you will eventually learn from your own mistakes. That, or wind up on a drug coctail concocted by clueless psychiatrists who really don't want to deal with difficult problems and just want to stick you into a partial hospital setting so that they can make money from medicare and medicaid.

I was in such a setting for 2 months, and my mental and physical state went from bad to much much worse.

Psychiatrist often give these powerful and dangerous drugs to be used on an "as needed" basis. This is wrong and criminal. Stay away from antipsychotics unless you suffer from paranoia or other schizotypal disorder. Stop taking drugs on an as needed basis. Be consistent. Make only one change at a time. Your thread is full of this advice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian, you're not hearing what any of us are saying, and that's really frustrating. I understand you completely and my withdrawal was just as bad if not worse. I was crying heavily every day for 6 to 12 hours per day and then not sleeping at night. All the drugs I tried were bad. Rameron was a disaster and so was Gabapentin. These drugs will not help you. The reason Lexapro didn't help is because you were yanking your brain with Ambien and Seroquel and supplements, which also make things worse in withdrawal.

You have to forget about taking medication to get a few hours of sleep. Think big picture. Get off of Rameron and go back to Trazedone, is my recommendation. Since Trazedone worked for you in the past, it will again. Also, at higher doses, Trazedone is an antidepressant. You have to let your nervous system heal, that is the only way your insomnia will go away.

Once I quit Klonopin, Ambien, and Gabapentin, within 3 weeks Lexapro started helping me sleep - and only on 2 mgs of Lexapro. That's after an entire year of HORRIFIC insomnia. I was also put on Baclofen, for the myoclonus, which may have helped, but was probably a placebo effect.

You have to start listening to what we are all saying. I don't know how to make it any clearer. Just like you, I believed that I can't sleep without drugs. The Ambien and Klonopin worked less and less, it got so bad that I was taking them 3 times per night despite the fact that they started causing restlessness so severe that I couldn't even stand still. I was pacing up and down my apartment in the middle of the night, hyperventilating, flailing my arms and legs, my heart racing. Do not let yourself get to this point.

The only thing that will help, is getting on ONE medication that works, and then letting your brain heal with no other drug intervention.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these symptoms you mention, Rameron causes them. I had horrible drowsiness, brain fog, blurred vision, heavy head, and worsened depression while on Rameron. My eyes literaly were glazed over. It also causes sugar and carb cravings, with a diabetes risk.

Tamazapam is an extremely addictive drug. All these drugs are, but benzos are the worst.

You are playing with fire by interchanging all these benzo drugs - Tamazapam, klonopin, ambien, lunesta.

I did exactly the same thing, and I only got worse.

[Christian]

Lilu,

I have thanked you for your help already via email. It's obvious where my mistakes lie and have been repeatedly told so. But you already shared this with me via email. Why do you keep posting personal conversations of ours? My thread was going in a positive direction with the formulation of a plan. You used sleeping pills but were lucky enough to stabilize on Lexapro. I'm happy for you. But I didn't stabilize and now have to tackle WD insomnia without a reinstatement med. I'm going to remain on the Remeron per the suggestions I received. It's a nasty drug but I had the drowsiness well before the remeron. Since the first day I woke up with WD. Remeron doesn't help but I do sleep some on it. You are correct I need to stop the benzo's. Please now that you since you have shared your thoughts if you are going to post on my thread try to be more positive. Like others are on this thread as well as other threads of folks struggling with the same. Once again I'm happy things worked out for you and thank you for your help.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I was going to PM you with a bit of advice but you handled the above well and with maturity far beyond your years. Kudos!

 

PS. You may want to clean out your inbox, I could not PM you.

[Lilu]

Lilu,

I have thanked you for your help already via email. It's obvious where my mistakes lie and have been repeatedly told so. But you already shared this with me via email. Why do you keep posting personal conversations of ours? My thread was going in a positive direction with the formulation of a plan. You used sleeping pills but were lucky enough to stabilize on Lexapro. I'm happy for you. But I didn't stabilize and now have to tackle WD insomnia without a reinstatement med. I'm going to remain on the Remeron per the suggestions I received. It's a nasty drug but I had the drowsiness well before the remeron. Since the first day I woke up with WD. Remeron doesn't help but I do sleep some on it. You are correct I need to stop the benzo's. Please now that you since you have shared your thoughts if you are going to post on my thread try to be more positive. Like others are on this thread as well as other threads of folks struggling with the same. Once again I'm happy things worked out for you and thank you for your help.

 

I only posted my side of the conversation, as I wanted to share my thoughts and experiences with the group. I apologize if this upset you. I hope you know that even though I may have come off as being harsh, my intention has always been to help you.  I am more of a tough love kind of person. And I got frustrated because it didn't seem like you were "getting it".  Unfortunately most people learn only from their own mistakes, myself included.

 

I won't post on your thread anymore. I wish you best the best of luck going forward. No one should suffer like we all have from drugs that are designed to help us.  Take it one day at a time and examine your limiting beliefs. Beliefs about how bad it's going to get in the future or how long it's going to take you to recover, or that you're doomed., etc.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Christian]

Thank you Lilu. No hard feelings. Best of luck to you too!

[Altostrata]

Christian, thank you for diligently posting your symptom pattern.

 

....

Below is my daily pattern for the day. You will see I have (and always have had during WD) lethargy, fatigue and drowsiness. It has gotten worse since coming off the reinstatements. Its WD plus worsened by Remeron and poor sleep I imagine. 

 

Meds taken last night

15 MG Remeron

12.5 Ambien

 

Symptoms today (6 hours broken sleep) 

5 AM: woke up to anxiety, extreme fatigue and drowsiness

10 M: get up and make breakfast.  anxiety increasing dwelling on lethargic feelings. Drowsy 

11 AM: cannot follow TV or read (both vision and cog fog). Extreme fatigue, drowsiness and anxiety

12 noon: feel nauseated. Want to vomit. Skip lunch due to no appetite 

1 PM: go to grocery store (anxiety feeling throughout-difficulty speaking do to nervousness)  

2PM: walk dog (usual anxiety while moving)

3 PM: Fatigue and drowsiness much worse

4 PM Fatigue and drowsiness remains bad

5 PM: Fatigue and drowsiness remain bad 

6 PM: ate dinner-same symptoms  

7 PM: feel a little better symptoms reduce. little bit more energy 

 

....

 

You are currently taking Remeron (15 MG) and Temazapam (15 MG) with occasional Klonopin and Ambien in place of Temazapam?

 

Is your Remeron down to 7.5mg?

 

If I were you, I would stop tapering Remeron right now and let your nervous system settle down.

 

The benzos, including Ambien, could become a major problem, not only in dopey hangover during the day but in rebound anxiety and insomnia, which cause you to want to take more drugs.

 

Please integrate your drug intake schedule with your daily symptom pattern, including the drug dosages and the times you take them.

 

Also, as CW suggested, do not use the computer at night, it interferes with your sleep. As long as your nervous system is so sensitive, you may wish to turn off all lights at nightfall to trigger your own natural production of melatonin, and block out early-morning light with blackout shades, etc. on your windows.

[Happy2Heal]

Thanks Catnapt. I have a yellow lab named Lexie.

oh nice! dogs are great companions

 

what are you reading?

 

I am having trouble seeing, but when/if my vision clears, I want to get some books. TV sucks this time of year (I only get one channel off the air, ABC)

[Christian]

Hey Catnapt,

Ive read the following books in the last two months .....

 

Adrenal Fatigue-James Wilson

Recovey and Renewal-Baylissa Frederick

Killing Patton- Bill O'Reilly

Killing Jesus-Bill O'Reilly

 

Currently reading

Killing Kennedy

 

On Deck

Killing Lincoln

Killing Reagan

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh gee Christian, death much? (I heard the O'Reilly books are supposed to be great, especially the Jesus one.)

 

You really should give a bit of a warning when you use 'triggering words' like those above in a post. It seriously freaks some people in deep wd a lot.

 

Just checking up on you after Alto's visit....

[Happy2Heal]

Hey Catnapt,

Ive read the following books in the last two months .....

 

Adrenal Fatigue-James Wilson

Recovey and Renewal-Baylissa Frederick

Killing Patton- Bill O'Reilly

Killing Jesus-Bill O'Reilly

 

Currently reading

Killing Kennedy

 

On Deck

Killing Lincoln

Killing Reagan

 

 

OH MY GOD so much violence :D

 

I haven't read anything by Bill O'Reilly - is he the guy who I think had a TV show..?

 

 

hmm probably not my cup of tea...

I tend to read stories about families and ppl who have survived childhood trauma as I have, but if I'm in a bad place emotionally, I'll look for something a bit less depressing (although many of those stories can be inspirational) I don't care much for the sappy pushy "inspirational" stuff like Chicken soup books, I like things that are more realistic and don't minimize the real struggles ppl have.

 

also been reading about ppl in so called "third world" countries, this helps me to put my problems into perspective better.  God Grew Tired of Us by John Bul Dau, is an awesome memoir of a man who survived the carnage in Sudan (one of the "Lost Boys")

I like non fiction science stuff, esp brain stuff. Oliver Sacks books are awesome.

 

Gavin de Becker's book "The Gift of Fear" actually has a TON of good insights into the way ppl act and what motivates us, that can help ppl in many situations, not just threatening ones.

Have you ever read "Switch"? It's a good book that shows how to make changes, it's written with ppl in business in mind, like how to get your employees on board to do something etc

but the principals in the book work just fine for every day life.

I go back and re read it from to time to see what I might be able to do to improve... like if I'm trying to stick to a diet, and it's not going well,

this book sometimes gives me good ideas.

 

I should go out to the library and get something new, though, I keep reading the same 5 or 6 books over and over again.

 

I purposely avoid books that might get me upset emotionally when I'm in a fragile state, though. So it's hard choosing books without a good review, so I can know what to avoid. I'm pretty sure anything with Killing in the title would be a bad idea for me right now LOL

 

thanks for sharing your list though. I'm gonna look into the recovery and renewal one   :)

[Christian]

You mean the killing books? Oh they aren't about death. It's about their impactful lives and the conspiracy surrounding their deaths. I can't read or watch any violence. Even action. I was watching one of the mission impossible's with my sons. Tom cruise was on a sky scraper going from one window to the next. From the outside. OMG that was tough.