Odwina Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Dear moderators, I need again your help for the next step: If I am to compare, the four days on 8 mg (well, except today, which is not exactly a goo day) were much better than the four previous ones on 10 mg and I really felt I was going to some kind of stabilisation. Yesterday it was a gorgeous day, I walked, I enjoyed the sun, I pruned the hedge and some roses, I felt I was living again, I dined out (even drank a bit of sparkling wine...) But last night I didn't sleep a wink. Yesterday evening I started feeling that something was not perfect because it was an uneasy feeling inside and my eyes felt cold and open. (I had a feeling I wouldn't sleep). Very early in the morning a wave of fear and anxiety started, I had sweating, slight tingling. I felt froze, unable to move, not even able to go to the loo. That fear then magnified my life problems and gave me the dead feeling inside. Now I am feeling very lethargic and drained. Based on these symptoms what do you think? My intention was to try to reduce a bit more tomorrow (so after 4 days) - should it be 2 mg or only 1 mg as I am now on a less quantity? The idea is that I am now on Romania on acupuncture (till mid-May) and it is a bit easier to do things while being on acupuncture and I would like to see till where I can go down according to what Brassmonkey said. And when I am back to France I really want to stay at that quantity for an unlimited time as I have many problems that need solving. (my aim is now to find the right dose but at the same time it would be nice to stabilise on a as low a dose as possible to allow my brain to heal more). Thank you very much, O - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 3, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 3, 2016 So lovely to hear you're starting to see significant improvements. Big relief. There will still be episodes like this morning , but less often and less intense. If sparkling wine is alcoholic , I'd give it a big miss. What if it was that that caused the wave of anxiety and fear this morning? It's just not worth risking it. Remember , the aim is not to get to the 3mg Brassmonkey mentioned. That was the recommended starting dose , but you were already on 14mg. I would be inclined to try missing the second dose of 2mg for the next few days. If you adjust to that , maybe it's time to stop pushing the envelope and just hold there for 6 to 8 weeks before beginning to taper. You wrote that you decreased on 1 April , 2 days ago. Please keep updating your signature. so it serves as a record. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Thank you, Fresh, well, I have thought about the sparkling wine that it may have done something, hmmmm, yes, it was alcoholic, I'll stay away from it... Before the withdrawal I used to enjoy drinking cold beer in summer and red wine with dinner. Will I never be able to do this? Well, 3 mg is just a dream.... Ideally it would be 5-6 mg, if I can stabilise here it would be so good. If I manage to stabilise I think I would stay at that dose for a very long time, at my age (68) the idea of spending the rest of my life in withdrawal is simply terrifying. So tomorrow is the 5th day, I will cut again 2 mg and make the comparison. And if I feel good (I pray so much for this) maybe I can try 0.25 mg less a week till 5 mg. Then stop. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 3, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 3, 2016 Odwina , You wrote that you decreased on 1 April , 2 days ago. You must keep track , tomorrow is the fourth day , not the 5th. The last thing you need is to cause additional withdrawal problems. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Hello Fresh, can it be a difference in the time zone of the computers? In the signature I wrote 31 March and I checked once again, it was a post on 31 March when I said I cut in the morning. And I know it as I count each day. I am keeping track, I know how important it is. Thank you very much, I'll come back after a few days - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 3, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 3, 2016 You're a clever bunny , that explains it. "Posted 01 April 2016 - 06:27 AM Fresh, on 31 Mar 2016 - 4:26 PM, said: It sounds like you've become very aware of how you respond to the second smaller dose. Cutting out the second 2mg sounds like a good idea Odwina. Please hold there for at least 4 days before going down any further. Thank you very much, Fresh, yes, you are right, it seems I am much more aware of how my brain answers to the small dose. So I cut today 2 mg again . . . " It's already the evening of April 3 here ... sorry for the confusion 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 And Fresh, you are a very-very clever bunny and great expert and adviser in withdrawal... Love, O - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
btdt Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Odwina I am curious about the acupuncture has it ever caused you pain? WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Odwina I am curious about the acupuncture has it ever caused you pain? Hello btdt, I think it is very important to find a good acupuncturist, I read the acupuncture thread here and there were people saying they were worse after acupuncture. If the acupuncturist works in soothing the nervous system it can only help. Most of the time I had a crisis here in Romania, the acupuncturist dr was able to get me out of it. So the answer is that it has never caused me pain, just on the contrary, I got relaxed and even slept on the bed there. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hello Fresh, I thought that maybe it would be wiser to reduce it only by 1 mg today and stay there for 4 days, then to see if I should stop, go back to initial 8 mg or subtract another 1 mg. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 4, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 4, 2016 It's really your call Odwina ... there is no correct answer here. Is it more disruptive to make 2 changes of 1mg each , or one change of 2mg? I don't know. I feel it's a little like playing the card game "21" , and I'd hate to see you bust by pushing your luck. You've gone from 14mg to 8mg. I'd hold there ... you may still have delayed fall-out from cuts made 2 weeks ago. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted April 4, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hi Odwina-- It's so frustrating to try and figure out what dose is going to make things stable isn't it. The big problem is that the symptoms don't go away over night so you can't really tell if what you're trying is working or not. You've made a lot of changes over the past several weeks so it would be a good idea to pick a dose, either 7 or 8 and stick with it for a couple of months to let all the changes sort themselves out. There really is no other way of finding out. I think any more dose changes right now will just add to the confusion your brain is feeling and cause more trouble. In the mean time the proactive thing you can do is to research relaxation/self calming techniques and start to practice them. Learning and practicing self care is very important to getting through this. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Dear Brassmonkey, yes, it is terribly frustrating indeed. This is also my intention, once I find out the dose to stay there for a couple of months. On the other hand I would really like to give my brain the chance to take the minimum dose it can accept. There is a very peculiar sensation which I only get after the second dose, a feeling of being slightly unwell in my body, in my bowels and stomach. It feels like being overdrugged, it is the same feeling which I had, but much much stronger, during the month after reinstatement (on 14 mg). This feeling decreased the last days as I decreased the dose. This feeling goes in the later evening when it feels like the drug has worn off. This is why I still wonder if this is staying still too much drug. I am just monitoring myself very-very closely now. Today I dropped 1 mg. Anyway it is much-much better than during the month after reinstatement when it was hell on earth. Thank you very much, O - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 4, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 4, 2016 I thought you had cut out the second dose , and were just taking one now? Try taking your cuts from the second dose , so you can settle on just one dose a day. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Yes, dear Fresh, I cut from the second dose 1 mg yesterday but because of that ill-feeling which appears after the second dose, starting with today I will have only the original dose of 6 and stay there for at least a couple of months. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Very strong suicidal thoughts one hour after taking the drug, I just hate this poison. Thanks to GOD I wasn't alone. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 5, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 5, 2016 Is today the first time that has happened for a while? 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Yes. These suicidal thoughts I only had the month when I was in France. It's terrible how overwhelming they are. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 5, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 5, 2016 Let's see if they hang around over the next 48 hours Odwina. New symptoms presenting may mean you need to sit tight and stop decreasing. Allow your brain a day or two to stabilize. It's not worth decreasing any more if at this level suicidal ideation has returned. p.s. They're just thoughts , DO NOT engage with them 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 This morning I woke up at 8.30, I was absolutely soaking in sweat but I wanted to get up and start a new day, my mind was very clear. At 9 am I took the drug, the anxiety started to build up afterwards and it lead to the terrible suicidal ideation which has subsided a bit but there is still the desperation and complete fatigue. This drug is a devil and I cant understand anything anymore what is it that it wants. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Dear Fresh, today, very early in the morning, I had the scariest attack of my life, I have never ever could have thought it can go to such an extent, like a demonic attack. It was an incredible brainstorm, like a delirious brainstorm. I was writhing all over the bed, begging my friend to put me down as I could not resist anymore. I just don't know how to get my life back into order now. I felt like I was losing my mind. I went back to 8 mg on Wed (where it was the best compared with all the other quantities). I have to mention that yesterday I was terrible desperate because of some issues in my life which are almost insoluble, but maybe the wd increases all that state of despair. Could this have triggered the crisis? Or is it because of the rapid tapering? This was anyway needed, I had no choice. Please give me a bit of comfort, I feel like it is the end. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted April 8, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 8, 2016 Hi Odwina, It is most probably a combination of all of those things. When the CNS has been destabilised things that we might normally be able to handle can be magnified. Maybe try listening to Claire Weekes. I understand that it can be very difficult but learning to recognise what is happening and having ways to calm yourself when you have these feelings and thoughts can make a big difference. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted April 8, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 8, 2016 Hey Odwina - it's 2 am here and I'm on my way to sleep - but I just wanted to share with you: Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms Instead of bouncing your doses around (ouch!), try some chi gung or other techniques to be more mindful of your symptoms. Your body is giving you signals that your brain is interpreting as fear or anxiety - but really, you are probably quite safe. Many people here will just say, "it's only withdrawal" or "this is just a symptom" and gain some mindful objectivity that way. Or you could change the channel and do some chi gung (just 7 minutes, and it might change everything): "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016! Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 8, 2016 Administrator Share Posted April 8, 2016 Odwina, it's very important that you remain as calm as possible when you have a bad wave. Fearing a catastrophe only makes it worse. You have had bad waves, remind yourself they last a while and then go away. This is important. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Odwina, it's very important that you remain as calm as possible when you have a bad wave. Fearing a catastrophe only makes it worse. You have had bad waves, remind yourself they last a while and then go away. This is important. Dear Alto, dear Moderators, Thank you for all your advice, I am trying to put all this into practice, although it is so hard. My present state is still very bad: crises, suicidal ideation, despair, anxiety, permanent feeling of being unwell, profuse sweating, anhedonia, I am good at nothing. I have a very important question: when I had that necessary rapid tapering, my best days were when I was on 8 mg. But now I am on 8 mg and it is not good at all. But I reduced by 2 mg every four days, so in fact does this mean that when I was on 8 my brain thought I was still on 10 so in fact 10 is the right amount for me now? Cutting from 10 to 8 is a 20% reduction, can it be that my brain can't adjust and this is why I am having such a bad time? I am craving for some stability! Please, somebody with a lot of experience in paxil withdrawal, give me an answer, what shall I do in order to become stable? Shall I still keep it at 8 or shall I go back to 10? 12 or 14 were definitey too much, at least about this I am sure. Thank you very much, O - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 9, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 9, 2016 Hi Odwina , you've been on 8mg now for 8 (time difference?) days , except for one day of 7mg. I be inclined to stay on 8 and allow your system some time to adjust. The episode yesterday morning - how long did it last? Have you had any more? When that's happening , I found the only way to get through it was to literally talk myself through. Tell yourself over and over that it's going to pass , it's temporary , this is anxiety , no one has EVER died from anxiety , none of the thoughts can harm or kill you (even if you wish they would) , stuff like that. Every episode really does end , you need to get through it just one moment at a time. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Hello Fresh, yes, practically 8 days on 8 mg. The episode yesterday started with a terrible anxiety, drug induced, around 4 am. This lasted till around 7.30 am when it mounted into the scariest episode ever with me rolling all over the bed, putting my feet on the walls, standing on my head, my friend told me it was so scary, I was behaving like an acrobat in a circus, my friend told me afterwards it is understandable why doctors put people in a strait jacket when they behave like this. The crisis lasted about 2 hours and left me a wreck. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted April 9, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 9, 2016 If it comes back again , you must talk yourself through it. If you have extra-ordinary energy in your body , you may find pacing helps. Calm and rhythmical. Do anything that seems to distract you when it's bad , even if you change activities every 5 minutes. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Thank you, Fresh, at the moment everything I try to do seems overpowering, I cant get out of bed. It feels like my mind is floating from one thing to another, everything seems overpowering and daunting, a terrible day again, it is no living anymore. The lethargy level is much higher than last week, and again, I became much more tired after taking the drug. I am so much afraid. So yes, I guess it would be a bad idea to go back to 10. But it is so frustrating, why was last week much better than this? - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Odwina, it's very important that you remain as calm as possible when you have a bad wave. Fearing a catastrophe only makes it worse. You have had bad waves, remind yourself they last a while and then go away. This is important. Alto, I am so desperate, insomnia is back completely, I couldn't sleep the whole night, now my eyes are so open, it is that feeling telling me I won't be able to sleep tonight too. It is the sheerest despair, last week seemed to be better, to bring a bit of stabilisation, now it is again like when I was in France, the blackest depression started now. I simply do not know how to cope anymore, I am a wreck, I read all the threads, no mental techniques help me, nothing. I am a wreck, I just feel my life ends here. I am so unhappy, life is worthless, just pain, stress and suffering. It seems I can't get it al all right with the dose. I am desperate, when people taper slowly in a normal way, they know at least something. I made such a terrible mistake with this dropping. I read the thread about the bridging with Prozac started by strawberry where you discuss with some people who were successful, shall I try and see a psychiatrist here in Romania and give it a try? I know about the devil that you know that is better, my brain had a good relationship with paxil for 20 years but now it has become crazy, it doesn't know what it wants anymore, last year it was with a lot of stress (also this one), I think I was anyway in unwanted withdrawal. I am just a wreck, please help me, I do not know where I am heading anymore, maybe it is protracted withdrawal, for me at 68 it can only mean the end of my life. - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted April 9, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 9, 2016 Odwina, you have changed your doses so much in the past 6 months - it is better not to bridge to Prozac. Wait, be with your feelings, and trust us when we tell you: IT WILL PASS. It is hard to see when you are in the depths of a wave, but it will pass, it will get better. But you have to wait it out - hold - and not do anything. I believe that it is during the holds that we heal. The tapers are destabilizing, and the holds allow our body to re-balance, re-calibrate, and stabilize. Please prepare to hold for at least 3 months, with no changes, and the only supplements of Magnesium and Omega-3 fish oil. Please look over the link I sent you Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms I think that is important for you to get through this. Make a list of distractions and things you can do, like: take a walk do some tai chi (only 7 minutes in the above video) watch relaxation or educational videos on YouTube play stupid Facebook games color in coloring books read write dance yoga (again, there are zillions of videos on YouTube - you can do it in your own home, for free!) listen to music watch old TV shows - the consensus here is that the older TV shows, like M*A*S*H* or Bewitched, are less activating. Watch comedy on YouTube, or podcasts of comedy. What are the things which help you forget about your pain - even if just for a minute or two? Cultivate these. "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016! Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Odwina, you have changed your doses so much in the past 6 months - it is better not to bridge to Prozac. Wait, be with your feelings, and trust us when we tell you: IT WILL PASS. It is hard to see when you are in the depths of a wave, but it will pass, it will get better. But you have to wait it out - hold - and not do anything. I believe that it is during the holds that we heal. The tapers are destabilizing, and the holds allow our body to re-balance, re-calibrate, and stabilize. Please prepare to hold for at least 3 months, with no changes, and the only supplements of Magnesium and Omega-3 fish oil. Please look over the link I sent you Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms I think that is important for you to get through this. Make a list of distractions and things you can do, like: take a walk do some tai chi (only 7 minutes in the above video) watch relaxation or educational videos on YouTube play stupid Facebook games color in coloring books read write dance yoga (again, there are zillions of videos on YouTube - you can do it in your own home, for free!) listen to music watch old TV shows - the consensus here is that the older TV shows, like M*A*S*H* or Bewitched, are less activating. Watch comedy on YouTube, or podcasts of comedy. What are the things which help you forget about your pain - even if just for a minute or two? Cultivate these. Dear JanCarol, It is true that I changed the doses a lot, but I really had no choice, I made the reinstatement with too high a dose, then suffered terribly for one month, then I was advised a rapid tapering for balancing which proved to be right. I only need to find that right dose for me (last week it was better, this week a nightmare), then of course I would only like to hold. But provided it is a bit bearable, not a continuous wave. I am a wreck, for the moment I can't to anything, I borrowed 4 books from an English friend, I couldn't read at all. I can't watch any movies anymore, I don't have interest in anything, I can't concentrate on anything. You are so nice and so kind to me, I wish I could be a bit better and do a few of these things proposed by you as my life is not a life anymore, I can only have a walk presently. Thank you so much, O - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 9, 2016 Administrator Share Posted April 9, 2016 Odwina, you are having fairly typical symptoms of having reduced psychiatric drugs too fast. You will need to calm down, stop changing your drugs, and let your nervous system settle down. If we knew of an easier way to do this, we would tell you. Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, seehttp://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/ This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Odwina Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Last question about doses - I know I am so annoying - but why again my state gets much worse 1 - 1.5 hours after taking the drug? It has happened again today, I will make the account of today: I am becoming very concerned about the apparent fluctuations in symptoms especially those that seem to be associated with taking the drug today especially! This morning (day 8 of the dose being at 8mgs after one day only at 7) I took the dose at 9 am having spent a sleepless night. I obviously felt tired after no sleep, but I never the less got ready for an appointment and was ready to leave at 10.15am. At that time I was feeling capable of getting the bus after a 10 minute walk and attending an hour of councelling. The appointment was cancelled just as I was about to leave at 10.15am and I was relieved as I really felt tired. So I lay back on the bed and almost immediately dozed off for about 1 and half hours. On waking I felt really exhausted ( not sleep exhaustion but the complete lack of energy, motivation and fatigue that I have felt at lots of times during withdrawl). I got up after struggling with the fatigue feeling for an hour and went out to walk to town - but feeling exhausted, and with a fairly bad headache, a mounting feeling of depression and no real energy at all. In the 30 minute walk to town the depression got deeper, I felt really ill and sat for nearly 2 hours by the river trying to recover. With no change I went to cafe and sat in lounge where I felt overall unwell and fell asleep after 20 minutes. It "seems " to me that taking the 8 mgs of drug set off a fatigue and depressed feeling and very heavy headache as I did not have this when getting up. CAN this be that the drug quantity is too high ? It seems that the effect came after 90 minutes of taking the drug. By 7 o'clock I started feeling OK as if the drug started wearing off and by 10 o'clock I feel quite OK, tolerable for living. I only wish to hit somehow the right dose and feel a bit normal, do some things. And then just stay there for an unlimited time. With all my gratitude for your immense patience and kindness, O - on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!) - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering) - 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd - reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible 6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine), a tricyclic - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal - then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body - 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg - 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 9, 2016 Administrator Share Posted April 9, 2016 When you say "worse," do you mean greater fatigue? Perhaps you should take Paxil in the evening. To do this, move it later by one hour each day until you are taking it in the evening. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted April 10, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 10, 2016 Hey Odwina, what you are describing is severe fatigue http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1718-severe-fatigue/ coupled with anhedonia http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2873-anhedonia-apathy-demotivation/ Many of us have had these. I still struggle with fatigue. The point of my post was not for you to do anything specific that I suggested - but instead to find what you can do, and use that to distract you. You may have to try a few things, to find one which helps you. Maybe it's watching silly cartoons on the TV, or chatting on Facebook. Some people are able to do little things, like needlework. I like coloring, because I don't have to feel creative - just gently play with the colors. Some people might benefit from getting Play-doh, and just knead the dough while they are having symptoms. I have one friend who strokes her plush toys, to feel the furry texture on her skin, and it helps her soothe her symptoms. Since the 30 min walk was so difficult for you, perhaps your walks should be shorter - I always walk just 10 minutes a day - and do other things only as I feel better. Yoga can be easy, gentle and restorative - lying on the floor propped up by pillows, to help replenish your endocrine system. Like this: This feels GOOOOOD! You wrote: It "seems " to me that taking the 8 mgs of drug set off a fatigue and depressed feeling and very heavy headache as I did not have this when getting up. CAN this be that the drug quantity is too high ? It seems that the effect came after 90 minutes of taking the drug. It's not necessarily the drugs that you are taking NOW which is causing the fatigue, but the withdrawal from the drugs you were previously taking. It is better to hold, stay at the same dose - maybe move it to a different time of day like Alto suggested. If that seems too extreme, move it gradually, day-by-day, 3 hours at a time. If you take it at 7 am on Monday, try it at 10 am on Tuesday, then 1 pm on Thursday, 3 pm on Saturday, etc. Gradually. Please see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/ for a checklist of symptoms - you will see that all the symptoms you are describing are indicated for withdrawal. Also you may be helped to watch: Withdrawal Dialogues - cartoons to encourage you to understand better how & why this is happening. I hope you see the sun today! "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016! Link to comment
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