Odwina: What if paxil reinstatement fails?

[Odwina]

Dear All,

 

Thank you for your immense support, I will answer to which of you the moment when I am a bit better.

 

A new terrible crisis this morning, I had another one like this about 10 days before: terrible turmoil in my brain, feeling as I was going literally insane, riding all over the bed, I put my feet on the wall, didn't help, I just felt as I was belonging to a mental house.

 

What is this exactly? Could seroquel help in such a terrible crisis? I do not want to be put in a hospital here in Romania, they know even less about managing the pills here. It feels like I will never be normal again, I can't solve anymore my problems. Here I am with my Romanian friend, if I manage somehow to go back to Concarneau I will be there alone, which is terrible for my condition, I am a danger to myself.

 

In the end I will have to be admitted to a French hospital if I can;t stabilise at all, I will have no choice. Maybe in the end they will put me into a mental home. Anyway, for the moment it is impossible to travel in this condition.

[Fresh]

Odwina , this episode is a wave of akathisia , where you feel you need to escape from your skin.

Like when it happened 10 days ago , it stopped. It may come again , but remind yourself it will stop.

 

I don't like that you had it after increasing back to 10mg. It may mean that's too high for you.I wish

I knew for sure. What do you think?

 

Srroquel is not usually recommended because it is strong and addictive and will need tapering. But if taking

it means you can avoid a hospital admission , I would try it. It did help me when I was sick. It's very sedating -

I would try a much smaller dose than recommended. If the doctor suggests 25mg , try 1/4 of that.

 

How is the eating going? Are you able to have a bath?

 

Laying on the bed frozen is an improvement on the panicky crazy waves. If you can lay and rest , that's a good thing.

You're healing inside , even if it doesn't feel like it much.

[Odwina]

Dear Fresh, it stopped indeed after about 40 minutes, it is the most scary thing.

 

No, I am very much afraid that it happened after updosing (but I had too, there were so many terrible crises at 8, it seemed that the brain couldn't adjust at all to this quantity). Today (it is morning here) will be the third day on 10 mg. Can it be that the brain didn't sense the updosing yet as there are not 4 days?

 

I will ask the psychiatrist about Seroquel.

 

Fresh, it is so frightening everything, I just made such a terrible mistake giving up that drug. I feel I am only spiralling downwards and I do not know how to stop it.

[Fresh]

Good point ... if this is day 3 of 10mg , it won't have fully registered yet.

 

This terror is what I lived with for hour after hour , week after week. It's unlike anything else.

I describe it as that moment of intense panic that floods through you when you realize you just locked your

keys or child in the car , but it doesn't reside , just stays at that level of intensity.

It's a cortisol surge that goes on and on.

 

You can't be alone until you're better. Let's just do one day at a time for now. I promise you it's not

permanent. Lots of members on here have had it ... it never is.

[Odwina]

I checked, the first crisis like this was on 8 April, this was the 9th day on 8 mg after trying also 7 for only one day.

 

Seroquel should be taken when such a crisis occurs? Or on a regular basis? (which I am afraid of)

 

Oh Fresh, you didn't even make cold turkey and it happened to you, if you have had it for so many weeks, how will I be able to resist? I am already on the 5th month of pain, not being able to find any stability. My brain has gone nuts, it is uncontrollable now. I do not know where to find the strength anymore. And when it is not crisis, I am only surviving, no joie de vivre anymore, I can't enjoy anything anymore, this is the problem, this is why people want to finish their life. How can all this change in a reasonable timeframework?

 

And at night (today it happened later at 5 am) that profuse sweating and the ants like scolding water being poured over your skin.

[Fresh]

The sweating and antsy-crawly skin sensations are not unusual in withdrawal. Your joie de vivre will return ,

but obviously not until these symptoms stop.

 

See what the doctor says. You choices are to wait till you heal , which you will eventually. Or add another

medication to dampen the worst symptoms. It's your choice.

[Odwina]

Thank you, Fresh. But what about this Seroquel? Is it to be taken for crises only?

 

I do not know if any doctor is able to master this kind of withdrawal. This is so worrying.

[Odwina]

Help please, what should I do? I am so frightened, I feel drugged, I feel like the end of my life has come. How many mg should I take now? 8 or 10? I simply do not know the answer, I am feeling so druggie and overpowered. What is the answer? I only know I didnt feel well at 8. I am so scared, I have to take now the drug

 

Now the sweating and scolding water are stronger

[AliG]

Odwina.    It would be best to limit any use of Seroquel . It is not ideal as it is addictive and needs tapering .  Just a very small dose ,occasionally if needed . It was only mentioned , as a better alternative to hospital .  Please , stay at 10 mg. Give it time to fully register in your system .

[Fresh]

Seroquel is commonly used for crisis situations by doctors in hospitals and in the community.

If you take it daily for more than a couple of weeks , you need to taper it. Don't worry about

that now , if it helps that's fantastic.

 

Stick with the dose you've been taking the last couple of days. Things are so confused , don't do any

more changes just yet. As you pointed out , you've only had 3 days at 10mg.

 

Odwina , you absolutely , positively , CANNOT die from these feelings. It's just not possible.

Keep using the distraction techniques as best you can. Every moment of reprieve you get is a good moment.

[Odwina]

Dear AliG and Fresh,

 

I have taken 10, thank you, hope to resist somehow.

[Odwina]

Well, I saw the psychiatrist in the afternoon, but she said she can't give me any piece of advice as in Romania they do not have experience with people being on such drugs +20 years. She only advised me to go to France asap (taking Xanax to help me for the journey) and get admitted into hospital there. At least she didn't do any harm, sometimes even this is better.

 

Anyway, for travelling I should become a bit more stable. I do not know if the fact that I had huge stress (that would have killed a normal person, the psychologist I talked to here said) last 2 weeks didn't complicate things more. I also started to eat 1-2 Mars bars a day didn't aggravate akhatisia. I have just read in the akhatisia discussions sugar (stress also) can trigger it off. Anyway I am scared to death about this akhatisia, there are people suffering from many months to years from it, it is only said that one can eventually escape when being really in zero (also nothing sure of course), so I am so desperate. I will give up the Mars bars anyway (I ate them only because I wanted to put a bit of weight on, I lost more than 20 kilos in the last months), I gave up practically most of the things anyway and joie de vivre left completely after reinstatement.

[Odwina]

Oh, poor me, I have become silver star... Thank you, dear moderators, but you and all the other members here who have helped me so much deserve all the stars in the world!!!

[Ali4]

Are we ever ☺

[JanCarol]

Hey Odwina - 

 

Did you try the legs up on the wall thing?  (video on previous page)

 

It really is a soothing thing to do.  Even better if you can put an eye pillow on your eyes.  It reverses the sympathetic nervous response, and nourishes the endocrine system. 

 

It's such a simple thing - if you could do one thing, I would choose that one.

 

The going back to France thing - I have heard excellent things about the medical care in France.  You might be better off to be there for this.

 

PLEASE do not change your doses at all for at least a month, maybe 3 months.  Changes in doses will only make your journey more difficult.

 

I don't know what else to say - you need to look at self-soothing.

 

Make a list of things you can do.

hug a stuffed animal

listen to gentle music

relax in a dark room

pace (that was Fresh's survival tactic)

sit in the daylight

sleep

watch relaxing videos on Youtube, like this one:  What May Help - No more Self Blame (Toxic Antidepressants)

Listen to soothing talks, like Claire Weekes - Self Help for your Nerves

 

You may find some suggestions here: Akathisia Blogs & recovery

 

What is your list?  

 

We cannot do this for you - it is a challenging work, and only you can do it.  No magic pills, no quick solutions, only the journey through the dark forest, and while you are alone, you can tell us what you are experiencing.

 

As for Seroquel, it does add another drug for you to taper.  It may help - but it may do strange things too.

 

We cannot recommend drugs here - if you decide to take it, we can help taper you off of it later.

 

I'm not sure what you are asking for, what you need right now.  The answer is inside you - not me, nor Fresh or Ali.  

 

Acceptance is the key.  Accept that you are going through this, you will continue to go through this - and surrender to the process.  It's scary, I know!  But you will find that once you surrender, half of the fear and panic will fall away.  You are stressing yourself out with fear of the fear.  "I'm afraid of being afraid!" only makes it exponentially worse.

 

Resolve to just be afraid.  To be crawly, restless, fearful.  Sit with your fear, learn from it.

 

I am at a loss as to what to say to you.  The only other option lies in changing the channel:  Change the Channel  and maybe:  http://www.brainline.org/content/2008/07/how-clean-stinking-thinking-and-cope-better.html

 

We've posted a lot of resources for you here.  The tools are endless.  You need to take them up and USE them.

 

Here's another low commitment video - just 7 minutes - try it, and see how you feel afterwards.

 

We are running to the end of our ability to support you.  All we can do is send you links and virtual {{{HUGS}}}}

 

I think it is vital that you find local support, and soon. 

[ladybug]

Great advice from Fresh. I'd like to add one piece of advice and that is STOP RESEARCHING. We tend to latch onto the information that reinforces what we already believe to be true. It's called confirmation bias, and I've found this to be magnified in WD. Researching when in this state of fear, hopelessness and irrationality is not good because your mind will automatically gravitate toward the horror stories. If you must research then concentrate on success stories, there are many.

 

Your psych was wrong. Yes you are under an unbelievable amount of stress, but it will not kill you. Many others have been where you are and made it through. And it is also not true that you can't heal from akathisia while you are still on the drug. I have been on WD forums for many years and have seen akathisia go away when one stabilizes or begins to stabilize. I myself experienced some akathisia many years ago when I tapered too fast, and it went away once I updosed and stabilized. You have to sit tight on this dose and know that this will pass. ((HUGS))

[Ali4]

How are you odwina?

[Odwina]

How are you odwina?

 

Dear Ali, not at all well. I think I just had a major nervous breakdown, in some areas my brain doesn't function anymore.

[Ali4]

I had one too, there scary, your brain will heal itself, it just takes time. Take care Ali

[JanCarol]

Odwina:  

 I think I just had a major nervous breakdown

 

Catastrophizing - making it the absolute worst possible thing - is a common neuro-emotion.

 

I'm not saying that you aren't suffering - I know you are.  

 

But you are in a deep wave.  Not likely a nervous breakdown, not likely "permanent damage", not likely "the worst" of anything - believe me, wherever you are - it could be worse.

 

The people who get well are not the ones looking at the bottom of the hole and screaming at the terrors of how dark and deep it is.  That is catastrophizing.

 

The people who get well are the ones who look at their own feet and hands - at the horizon, at the next step in front of them.

 

Six Mistakes I've Made In Withdrawal

 

Please, do what you need to get well.

[Odwina]

Great advice from Fresh. I'd like to add one piece of advice and that is STOP RESEARCHING. We tend to latch onto the information that reinforces what we already believe to be true. It's called confirmation bias, and I've found this to be magnified in WD. Researching when in this state of fear, hopelessness and irrationality is not good because your mind will automatically gravitate toward the horror stories. If you must research then concentrate on success stories, there are many.

 

Your psych was wrong. Yes you are under an unbelievable amount of stress, but it will not kill you. Many others have been where you are and made it through. And it is also not true that you can't heal from akathisia while you are still on the drug. I have been on WD forums for many years and have seen akathisia go away when one stabilizes or begins to stabilize. I myself experienced some akathisia many years ago when I tapered too fast, and it went away once I updosed and stabilized. You have to sit tight on this dose and know that this will pass. ((HUGS))

 

Dear Ladybug,

 

Many-many thanks as usual. Unfortunately it is going only worse and worse, yesterday I had the most terrible day since reinstatement, It is unbearable, suicidal is the least I can say, it is almost continuous agony. I take Xanax to survive somehow, no choice. It seems my brain is now completely crazy, it doesn't like anything anymore. Going back to 10 gave me horrendous symptoms. Somehow on Wed I have to travel to France and be admitted into a hospital. I do not know if I can ever stabilise on paxil, the only hope is for the doctors to find somehow a replacement. But I know this is try and error, not to mention what it can follow. So unfortunately only bad news, I already hate only complaining here, I know it is not OK, I wish so much I could say something else.

 

Hugs,

 

O

[Odwina]

Odwina:  

 I think I just had a major nervous breakdown

 

Catastrophizing - making it the absolute worst possible thing - is a common neuro-emotion.

 

I'm not saying that you aren't suffering - I know you are.  

 

But you are in a deep wave.  Not likely a nervous breakdown, not likely "permanent damage", not likely "the worst" of anything - believe me, wherever you are - it could be worse.

 

The people who get well are not the ones looking at the bottom of the hole and screaming at the terrors of how dark and deep it is.  That is catastrophizing.

 

The people who get well are the ones who look at their own feet and hands - at the horizon, at the next step in front of them.

 

Six Mistakes I've Made In Withdrawal

 

Please, do what you need to get well.

 

Dear JanCarol, many-many thanks as usual, I know I have overcomplained, I am so sorry, unfortunately I am only downspiralling, my brain seems not to accept any paxil anymore, I am feeling even worse after updose (seems now that the terrible stress in my life last week made it even more misleading), the worst days yesterday and today, I am in agony. But I do not want to complain anymore, I can only pray to be able to travel on Wed (more than 12 hours) and pray that the doctors can find some replacement.

 

I wish you the best in the world, you are such a wonderful friend,

 

P

[Ali4]

Hope you are ok odwina xo Ali

[Odwina]

Dear Ali, dear all,

 

No, I am not at all OK, things are only getting worse and worse, I am bedridden all day, terrible turmoil in my mind, I literally feel that I am becoming insane. Maybe this is my mental condition now, this is not wd symptom. Even Xanax cant help anymore. On Wed I have the plane to France but I don't know how I can do it, 4 hours in car to Budapest, flight to Paris Ch de Gaulles, taking coach 1 hour to Orly, plane to Quimper, car then home.

 

I am afraid they will put me into a mental home being like this.

 

Please tell me from your experience, when someone goes to hospital and is on withdrawal, is it still possible for doctors to change their medication and make them functional again?

 

I made a huge mistake quitting paxil after20+ years, the side effects I had were nothing compared with the hell I am living now, I am only a wreck, I was perfectly functional on paxil. It seems I am one of those persons who really need this medication, no matter how poisonous it is.

 

Thank you very much,

 

O

[JanCarol]

Dear Odwina,

 

So you are going to France soon?  Hang in there!  I would be nervous about the travel, too.  I wish I had a recommendation, but even being sedated or having drinks for the trip can be destabilising.  It is a risk that only you can assess.

 

 

I am afraid they will put me into a mental home being like this.

 

Please tell me from your experience, when someone goes to hospital and is on withdrawal, is it still possible for doctors to change their medication and make them functional again?

 

The scenario of mental home is more likely, the more drugs you are on.  I have known a few people in "mental homes," and sometimes they can be healing places.

 

If you go to hospital and submit to all of their drugs (they will give you lots, more than likely) and get stable, then please - it is worth saving your life, if that is what it takes.

 

But the more you go to hospital, the more drugs you take, the longer it will be before you are well again.  How functional you are depends on you, not the drugs, not the doctors, not the hospital.  You have to learn to function, in spite of your physical symptoms.  This may require patience, waiting, self nurturing.  

 

Have you tried anything I have suggested?  Legs up on the wall?  7 minutes of Qi Gong?  

 

Talk here about what you can do to feel better.  Make a list of strategies - even if each one only lasts a few minutes.

 

Here is my list:

Qi Gong

Yoga

Mindfulness

Researching, learning on the web

Gardening

Walking

Pets

Phone a Friend

Get a massage

Acupuncture

Karate - or Circuit Training, but gently!

Stupid Games on Facebook

Listen to music

Watch a DVD (avoid commercials, horror, anything stimulating) or TV show

Craft - for me it's colouring books

 

Other things you might try are:  stroking a soft blanket or stuffed toy.  Engaging your senses:  what do you see, hear, taste smell RIGHT NOW?  and again RIGHT NOW?  (this is simple mindfulness).

 

I will try again - but you have to try some things too.  Here is a good mindfulness video.  Please let me know when you have tried something to soothe yourself, so that I know what helps:

Baylissa Frederick, Relaxing, Healing Meditation

or

[brassmonkey]

Hi Odwina-- Instead of seeing it as one long complicated trip try breaking it into smaller pieces and handle them one at a time.

 

Instead of '4hoursincartoBudapestflighttoParisChdeGaullestakingcoach1hourtoOrlyplanetoQuimpercarthenhome.'

 

I have 4 hours in car to Budapest, I'm going to watch and enjoy the scenery.

Couple of deep breaths.

 

Now I have a flight to Paris Ch de Gaulles, I can almost see the scenery from up here and look at those lovely clouds.

Several deep breaths.

 

Okay a coach ride1 hour to Orly, wow Paris is such a lovely city just look at that.....

A few more deep breaths

 

Oh boy a short plane ride to Quimper, I can't wait to see more of those clouds

A couple of more deep breaths

 

Now a quick car ride with friends and I'm home.

 

It's a much better way to think about it than "On Wed I have the plane to France but I don't know how I can do it," 

[Odwina]

Hi Odwina-- Instead of seeing it as one long complicated trip try breaking it into smaller pieces and handle them one at a time.

 

 

 

 

Dear Brassmonkey, I would love to see it this way, but I am so ill. I don't know what happened, I was doing better when decreasing 2 weeks ago, now I am even worse than in Concarneau, I am bedridden.

[Odwina]

Dear moderators and members with a lot of experience,

 

I have been living hell on earth for more than 3 weeks already. I thought 8 mg was too little, this is why I updosed to 10 again but 4 days after my situation worsened even more, with terrible akhatisia. I had to go down to 9, although I know this bouncing around is no good at all. I took Xanax for akhatisia and because I cant sleep at all, the problem is that I noticed my body cant accept Xanax anymore, each time I take it I become very sweaty, drousy (but not sleepy), burning sensation and very ill.

 

Tomorrow I have the journey to France, 20 hours, I have to resist somehow.

 

But the question is the following because I don't understand anything anymore, it is again a pattern, whenever I take my paxil 9 mg, 1 hour after I start feeling knocked out, sweaty, pains in my neck, my state deteriorates very rapidly. What is happening? I am so scared. Is it that my body cant stand the paxil anymore but at the same time it craves for it? I do not know what to tell them in the hospital, with now my very bad reactions to all these drugs. Has anyone had such an experience?

 

I wont take anymore Xanax even if I cant sleep at all tonight. Maybe tomorrow I shouldn't take any paxil during the journey. I don't understand anything anymore, I am in no man's land, there is no becoming a bit better and I literally feel like dying although people say one cant die because of wd. But who knows?

 

I took the paxil 1 hour ago. I was really OK before, almost bubbly, now I feel all anxious again, sweaty, tingly, drugged, my heart is beating much faster. Can sheer withdrawal give these symptoms after taking the drug?

[mammaP]

Hi Odwina, it must be very scary when you know you have the long journey tomorrow but you will get there and will be ok. You should call the airport today and ask for special assistance because you can't walk very far. They will meet you at check in with a wheelchair, take you through security and on to the plane. Then off the plane into a wheelchair that will take you to the exit where you continue your journey. I do this all the time and it makes such a big difference. If you can't phone them, just ask for a wheelchair when you check in and they will organise it for you. 

 

There are good hospitals and bad ones, here people are often given many drugs, maybe France do not prescribe so many. 

 

Prepare yourself today, have your things ready in good time so you are not rushing. Breathe the spring air and allow yourself to be looked after by others. Let us know when you arrive.  

[AliG]

Odwina. You seem to be very sensitive to the drug, as many are. It could take a little while to get completely stable again, but If you stay steady in your doses, it should help you to transition to a state of equilibrium.  MammaP , gives good advice regarding the travel arrangements. I hope it goes smoothly for you, and let us know how you go . 

Ali

[JanCarol]

Dear Odwina,

 

You will be in our thoughts as you travel.

 

We will be thinking of you the whole way.

 

And perhaps, as Brass says, getting out of your usual pattern will be some relief.  Seeing some clouds - I always find flying exhilarating, even when the seats are uncomfortable.  Seeing mountains and scenery.  Maybe there will be a kind person sitting next to you.

 

If so - here is my trick for "talking to strangers."  Don't talk about yourself at all.  Ask about them.   People love to talk about themselves.  Ask them questions.  Where do you live?  What's it like there?  Is that by a river or mountains or ocean?  Do you have children or grandchildren? What is your work like?  You don't even need to listen to them, just let them babble like a brook and you will have a friendly companion for your journey.

 

After your caring questions, if anything goes wrong, like panic or akathesia, this person might help you advocate for what you need.

 

Remember - alcohol can backfire.  It soothes anxiety for about 20 minutes, then drops you.  You don't want to be dropped in your frail state, so please avoid it if you can.  

 

You can do this.

 

When you present to hospital, it is important to seem as calm and stable as possible, especially if you don't want to be inpatient or drugged.  Please see What Should I Expect From My Doctor About Withdrawal Symptoms?

 

Maybe you can read it, and try to understand it during one of your travel breaks.

 

Will you have internet in hospital?  On your phone?  Will you be able to keep in touch with us during the journey?

 

If so, please continue to post.  Let us know how you are going.

 

When you get to hospital, please let us know the doctor's plan.  

[Odwina]

Dear MamaP, dear AliG, dear JanCarol, dear Fresh, dear all,

 

On the day of the journey I didn't take any paxil fearing it would knock me down. The 4 hours in car to Budapest were terribly difficult, towards the end my pulse was very feeble, I almost fainted when arriving. I thought I would never make it, my friend was preparing to call the ambulance to take me to a hospital in Budapest. Then I drank 2 big cafelate with a lot of milk, I took half a Xanax, in the last minute I could take the plane to Ch de Gaulles. I didn't need the wheelchair as my Romanian friend came with me knowing it would be impossible in my current state to travel alone. I tried to gather all my strength, we arrived on Ch de Gaulles, then I was afraid we would arrive to late to Orly because somebody left a suitcase there, there was alarm alert and airport was closed. In the end we made it. Yesterday evening after arriving home I felt the best in the last few weeks and could solve my post and most urgent things.

 

I was even able to sleep for 2 hours, then I woke up soaking in sweat and with massive tingling, I took the paxil at 5 am (yesterday I decided not to take it anymore as it was already late and wanting to see if it gives me indeed terrible side effects). Towards 7 I was in a terrible state of panic, suicidal thoughts, severe anxiety, despair. It is so clear now that paxil gives me these terrible psychological symptoms and akhatisia, on the other side if I don't take it it is bad anyway, Xanax makes me sick, I am in catch 22. I do not know what my doctor can do about this, it seems I am a severe case of withdrawal, even if I am sent to hospital I do not know what they can do, I am so desperate, my life seems to end now.

[Odwina]

Odwina. You seem to be very sensitive to the drug, as many are. It could take a little while to get completely stable again, but If you stay steady in your doses, it should help you to transition to a state of equilibrium.  MammaP , gives good advice regarding the travel arrangements. I hope it goes smoothly for you, and let us know how you go . 

Ali

 

Dear AliG, paxil cant help me anymore, I had today the proof that now it doesn't help me anymore, I have made no progress at all since reinstatement. It gave me severe panic attack, suicidal thoughts, unbearable anxiety, couldn't even speak anymore. I do not even know how to cope if the doctor cant find a place in a specialised clinic early enough, my body cant take paxil anymore, at the same time I am too afraid to stop taking the 9mg without having any other replacement.

[AliG]

Odwina.   I'm sorry that you're having such a hard time. It has only been 12 days since updosing. I think that your nervous system has been destabilized and will take a few months to come back into balance.  Keep using the skills you have learned here, and give it some time . Try not to panic. You have made progress, even if you don't see it right now. You are in a heightened state, where your emotions can tend to take over.  Breathe, and look over some of the guided meditations etc that have been recommended. Deep breathing , meditation , yoga, sunlight and walking will all help .

Changing dose again , is not the answer. Stability is .

Let us know how you go .

Hugs,

Ali

[JanCarol]

Odwina, you made it!  You are in France!
 

And here - you thought you couldn't but you did!

 

Please, stay on the Paxil.  You are feeling destabilised from the day you skipped.

 

It is so important to keep it steady and stable.  I know it seems counter-intuitive, to take the drug you think is hurting you - but it is a smaller dose, and you haven't given it time to stabilize yet.

 

It would be a good idea to hold at 9 mg for at least a month before making any adjustments at all.  Bouncing doses up, down, on, off - is only going to make you sicker.  Please consider what I say,

 

and Breathe!  You are already stronger than you were when you first came to SA.  Look at you - you survived that trip!  Sure it was hard, but you did it!

[mammaP]

Well done Odwina, you made a gruelling journey and got there, that is a huge accomplishment. Whenever I take a trip it takes me a couple of days to recover from  the journey. 

 

Take care and be kind to yourself, rest up awhile and see how you feel in a few days.  ((( Mamma hugs )))