☼ Maybe

[Maybe]

Had a "nice" experience again yesterday. The later the time, the worse I felt, which often is quite normal. SO I went to bed and everything grew worse. Had bad stomach and neck feelings and whenever I moved the used muscles started to shiver as if they were cold or my body was afraid. I always am afraid that something breaks when such odd sensations appear. That too much chemicals or whatever harm my cns. I am glad that I could stay calm and not go into panic mode....

 

The weird thing is, I always feel better the next morning. Not good, but never as bad as when those things happen the evening before.

[Maybe]

My God am I in the dumps again.

Just because I made some light exercises, I felt awful again the afternoon. I cannot stand this up and down anymore, I cannot bare this situation any longer. I losing the most important years of my life, because some ******* doc prescribed the worst pills on earth. I wanted to have girlfriend, children and good job. And I have nothing. I don't complain, many people do not have their dreams fulfilled. The thing is that I ask myself everyday if this is a life I want to live and I can only say, no. I will never be happy and content.

 

For the longest part, I had hope that I will heal and yes, maybe I will in 3 or 5 years. But then I will have missed everything that I value so high, that gives me purpose. I already have missed so many things you do in your youth, just because I was a coward and complicated person. Before I took the pills, I wanted to change that. That is all gone now.

 

The more I read about science, the more I come to the conclusion that we are only biological robots. So why should I endure this **** if it all is for nothing in the end?

 

It's been 25 months and I see not a glimpse of improvement where others at this time see the light at the end of the tunnel. I yell at my mom all the time, because she cannot help me. What a joke. The most important person in my life and I fill her with grieve whenever I am down. Why? I do not understand that. Why do I become so angry when I talk to her, when she is just trying to help? I have sunken so deeply.

 

Ranting, ranting and relieving my fuc**** self-pity....

[Claudius]

Maybe, I hear you but do not know if I am the one to support you, far from being out of the woods by myself. But you supported me too when I had such bad days.

I feel the same, not having fulfilled my dreams and not being able to. And looking back at the times when I had so many problems with self esteem and girls which were solvable in fact. I was very shy and did not find good friends for a long time which made me very unhappy. And now, still in w/d, I have a lot of worthfile contacts and at 43 years still getting attention from women, way more than when I was in my teens or twenties. Bottom line, I think some dreams can still be fulfilled or at least dreamt of even at a higher age.

I was also doing very bad at the 2 years point, though having one nice window at about 20 months off, lasting only a few weeks. And still not doing great but I belive it is worth sitting it out. Does your mum know about SSRI adverse reactions? does she take your situation seriously? I get the impression she does, so just try to keep yourself from yelling, crying is OK. I think that there is still a good chance to heal from this and in the end we are still better off than the many who never learn the truth and never will come out the greeding hands of psychiatry.

You mention going up and down, and hoe awfuil it feels, it means that someting still is going on in your brain and it is working to sort things out. You know the story of Goldenbawls, he needed about 34 months. I am far beyond that point but still get inspiration from his story. Please hang on and be determined to survive this.

[Maybe]

Thank you very much, Claudius.

 

It is just that you make your "plans" for life and slowly one after the other is shattered without being replaced by other plans and dreams. I have dreamt for years about happiness, fulfillment, worth. But it never happened, instead it got worse and worse. And when one is low you get hit with a nice pill, that shatters the rest.

It is not about, wohhoo, I am so unlucky and others are great. That is life. I am just not able to bear this any longer. Not one plan has survived, everything turned out different. And I just have no clue why. There is no one to blame but genes, socialization and fate.

 

Yes, my mom knows about it. My whole family does. And they believe me. They know it was the pill. But of course they cannot help me. They do support me as best as they can, but they are wearing thin as do I.

 

I know that others healed, but I still feel so damaged and nothing has changed since I did this darn acupuncture. Why did I do that when I felt back to normal? Why did the **** hit the fan again for me? I see other people who have so much luck in their life, why do I have to endure the opposite all the time? And for what?

[Maybe]

The probability is quite high that I had an adverse reaction after 3 pills, because the enzyme that is responsible for the breakdown of the drug is metabolizing slower than in the average person. So after 3 pills my levels of serotonin were too high, resulting in a panic attack. Taking the 4th pill did the rest. What I do not understand though is that after the initial reaction I felt fine for 2 weeks and then "wd" hit. This somehow does not sound like damage, but more like a misfunction.

Acupuncture stimulates the nervous system and the release of serotonin. Question is, did my cns react to the stimuli or were my levels of serotonin too high due to the session? Is it possible that my now cns reacts negatively to certain levels of serotonin?

Or maybe I have a trauma due to the experiences and my cns overreacts whenever certain processes happen in my body resulting in different symptoms?

 

Maybe I am delaying my healing because I work and still have a lot of mental stress, because I am not able to function properly?

[Maybe]

25 months today.

No real changes. Whenever I get a certain amount of stress, I feel awful. Though some symptoms have improved, I still feel very disabled in comparison to my pre-drug state.

 

Yesterday, after work, I wanted to drive home, feeling tired like hell and my car was gone. They hauled it off because I overlooked a temporary sign that forbid parking for some hours. Had to walk 40 minutes to get it back and of course that was too much. Didn't feel too well, came home and everything got better, because I could relax a bit.

Then I went to bed and bang, I felt so terrible, healthy people would have gone to the hospital right away. Why is that so? It is always worse when I go to bed, especially when I had a rough day. What does happen in the body before we go to sleep?

Glad that I am again better today, but that is not too unnormal. Seems my body can at least recover when I sleep well, at least most of the time.

 

 

Persisting symptoms in comparison to last month:

 

- Tinnitus (same)

- Movement sensitivity (improved)

- GI system (stable)

- Dizziness (stable)

- Weird leg feelings (same)

- Weird head and neck feelings and headaches (same)

- General feeling not normal yet, sometimes I feel ill, but have no illness (improved a bit)

- Unable to exercise, too much arousal for the cns, only slow walking is possible (same)

 

Edit:

Forgot to mention, my nerves are wearing thin. Mayn things do stress me more than normal and I am often close to explode due to rage. But this is no drug rage, it is pure frustration and stress.

[angie007]

Hi Maybe,

 

Congratulations on your 25th month birthday my friend

 

I know i have 20months less than you under my belt, but, i have had some heavy stressors this past week, what with waiting for chest xray results from the hospital ( which were clear), then had to have a Spyro test to check lung function - no result as yet, then problems with the car, and i totally agree, these added stressors are certainly capable of making us feel quite unwell with ramped up ssymptoms.

 

I just popped by to wish you well and hope for more recovery to come buddy, keep hanging on in there, it will happen!!

[Maybe]

Thank you, Angie

 

Seems there is no other option than hanging in and hoping.

[Maybe]

Just read an article about the effects of Extacy on the brain. It seems that those pills also strongly influence the brain chemistry, especially Serotonin and Dopamin, like SSRIs do. The article also said that after tests with apes (they gave them 8 doses of Extacy over the course of 4 days) even 7 years later the receptors were only partially grown back and often maimed. The article also said that most of the damage will only show up with higher age, because the brain produces less serotonin when one gets older.

 

I still have various symptoms 26 months out from 4 pills. It seems that my brain and system were badly damaged. I never took any illegal drugs and now I am crippled by a legal drug. This life is not worth living it. My concetration and memory problems, which I already had prior to the meds, are another burden and strongly influence my working life. I cannot cope with this anymore. I feel so unbelievable helpless.

[compsports]

Hi Maybe,

 

I don't have any words of wisdom except to say I am so sorry for your suffering. The other day, I had similar feelings when I though I was going to pass out while taking a shower. It turns out I was just exhausted from lack of sleep and felt better once I took another nap.

 

I have also had concentration and memory issues on the job so I totally relate.

 

I have no idea how helpful this would be but you might want to check out this blog entry on the beyond meds blog regarding living with an invisible illness and pain:

 

https://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/

 

Is there anything you can think of that has been helpful? I know from personal experience that I can feel so bad that it all seems so hopeless. But when I have moments of clarity, I realize that there are things that may be useful.

 

Hang in there.

 

CS

[Maybe]

Hello CS,

 

Thank you for your kind words.

No, sadly no. The only thing I know is that if I have stress my symptoms become worse. But I no of nothing that can help me. Especially, because my symptoms vary so strongly. They can change by the hour and every day is different. I have no clue what is going on. Yesterday I was quite fine, today is bad again. And the fear of permanent damage or damage that may pop up later in life just scares the hell out of me.

 

I would love to take some time off, but I cannot. I need to work. I see how the others develop, learn new things, how motivated they are. And I am sitting there like a complete idiot, who cannot even understand the simplest of things. Worst thing currently, though, is the fact that I see absolutely no development in the symptoms besides them changing as they please...

[Altostrata]

Maybe, there are so many reasons why you can't extrapolate what you read about Ecstasy and apes to your own situation. I'm sure you can think of a few. Please stop scaring yourself with these morbid thoughts.

 

Your condition is what it is. You can't go back in time, you can't use Superman's X-ray vision to see what's wrong with your brain. All your dark imagining can't make you better.

 

As cs said, we all need to cope with symptoms. Fantasizing the worst is not a coping strategy. It can only make you feel bad.

[Maybe]

The beginning of wd somehow was much easier, although symptoms were terrible. But I believed in the package insert saying that wd symptoms will clear after some weeks or months. Then it got worse again and I came to the hospital. I felt much better at once because I felt safe and as I wrote again and again I felt back to normal when I left the hospital. I cannot cope with the fact that I crippled myself doing some stupid acupuncture. And now close to 26 months out, I am finally losing hope that I will recover in the coming months.

Throughout the whole time up to the 2nd year mark, I had hope that I will recover. This is gone. I feel disabled and damaged.

You know this pleasent feeling after waking up from a nightmare, knowing this was just a dream? This feeling of safety? I had it all my life and it is gone now.

[Altostrata]

Yes, Maybe, we have all gone through periods wishing we could just wake up and the nightmare would be behind us.

 

Each of us has to except it is as it is, you can't go back, you can only go forward.

 

This is not the first time you've expressed these thoughts. What is your insight into their repetitiveness?

[Maybe]

Well, they come mostly when I feel bad again.

When I am better, I try to not think of wd. Those ups and downs just bring me more and more to my knees the longer it takes. I do not even need to heal by 100% but reach a certain level where I can do sports again and go out with friends. I just want to see some consistent improvements...

[Altostrata]

Maybe, my personal wish for you is that you stop hurting yourself with these thoughts. You deserve to be protected from them.

 

One way to practice being protective of yourself is by showing caring and support for other people. Then you can turn the same caring and support back to yourself.

[Maybe]

But I cannot protect me from those thoughts as they are a logical consequence of my suffering.

There must be something I am doing wrong. Others had a much worse inital wd after a bad reaction and they healed much earlier than me. Why? There has to be something I am overseeing. Or was it "just" the acupuncture that delayed my healing?

[Altostrata]

But I cannot protect me from those thoughts as they are a logical consequence of my suffering.

There must be something I am doing wrong. Others had a much worse inital wd after a bad reaction and they healed much earlier than me. Why? There has to be something I am overseeing. Or was it "just" the acupuncture that delayed my healing?

 

Maybe, I disagree that you cannot protect yourself from these thoughts, and the pattern of self-blame you just posted demonstrates this.

 

You have not been chosen beyond everyone else for special suffering. Each of us is in exactly the same position. How we got here cannot be unraveled.

 

As we've discussed many times before, you are hurting yourself with self-blame. It's as though you are beating a defenseless child who's made a mistake. Please stop this. You are the child, and you are doing the beating.

 

The part of you that's blaming needs to value the vulnerable Maybe.

 

Nurturing other people will help you understand how to nurture yourself.

[Maybe]

Fact is, those self-blaming patterns are one of my traits. Till now I never achieved in life what I wanted to achieve, to get what makes me happy and content. If you do not achieve those things, you do not only become unhappy, you start to blame yourself for you are the only one that is responsible for your life.

And to be honest, it just fits that I am one of those who have taken the pills and did not tolerate them. Fits perfectly to my curriculum vitae. This not only was the worst experience I ever had, it also made achieving things that would make me content so much harder.

 

If I would believe in God or karma, i would say that I must have been a really evil person in my previous life. Though I know that everything is only cause and effect. So what else is there to life than to blame and pity myself and treat everything with biting sarcasm?

 

Ones value is determined by the society, if you are not successful, you are nothing. That is what I have experienced in the past years.

 

Sorry, I just have no clue how to climb out of this damn hole.

[Claudius]

Maybe I understand what you are articulating. And in many ways I feel the same. My career has been a disaster, as well as my love life. Nevertheless, I still have some good things in life. Neither I do not grab why I deserved to be bullied and rejected again and again. My massage therapisst thought me, You are OK and wiorth to be loved, even if the whole world would piss on you. I try to cling to that, and know deep inside that apart from all those rejections, some people and even some beautiful girls were fond of me

Alto has right in saying that helping other people will distract from your suffering. I know it is very difiicult in the chaos these drugs created. I try to do some simple things, showing my love and passion to the young children of my best friends who are always happy to see me. And to my mother. There are still people to live and to get love from. THerefore I do not want to choose to disappear from this earthy life. And I feel better now after 4 years than after 2 years. My first window was after about 20 months, maybe your first real window is yet to come. Please do not give up!

[Maybe]

But I cannot love myself, because I despise my situation. I despise the self-pity and the weakness. But I cannot find a way out and that makes me even more furious and increases the self-hatred. It's a vicious circle. How can I love others, if I do not love myself? I have no energy to help others as my batteries are empty.

I have the love of my parents. They help me however they can. They have never let me down. There is so much **** in rucksack, I just want to press a button and start over. My childhood and pre-puberty were great. I just have no clue how I could become the person I am now.

 

I think deep down, I do not even want to be loved, whatever may be the cause.....isn't that borderline or so? Maybe I am mentally ill. Quite ironic, isn't it?

 

Nevertheless, thank you for your words, Claudius, I really appreciate that!

[compsports]

""But I cannot love myself, because I despise my situation. ""

 

What about self acceptance?

 

It doesn't mean you like the situation but you are acknowledging what is.

 

CS

[Maybe]

It is not only about the wd, it is more about the reason I was put on the pills in the first place. And even thinking about accepting this, makes me angry.

[compsports]

It is not only about the wd, it is more about the reason I was put on the pills in the first place. And even thinking about accepting this, makes me angry.

 

And that is ok, Maybe. Anytime you feel like being angry, let it happen.

 

But my point and Alto's point is that we can't change what happened as much we would like to. What are we going to do moving forward?

 

CS

[Maybe]

Living as healthy as possible and hope that some day the symptoms will be gone. There are many that have healed, at least this is my impression from reading the boards. But maybe there are more that have not? I just don't know...

[Barbarannamated]

Maybe,

You just gave me an AHA! moment.

*We are not our situations, nor our accomplishments, etc.*

I have a tough time remembering that.

Thank you!

Barb

[Altostrata]

Good conversation.

 

Maybe, I agree with cs, self-acceptance is the key to your breaking this obsessive cycle of self-blame. It's the key for a lot of us in dealing with our original issues, too.

 

And -- showing your caring side to others! Try it in responding to others' topics. If you don't know what to say, use a smiley. That's what they're for.

[Maybe]

Well, I do this now and then. It is not that I do not participate

 

But what does self-acceptance mean? Does it mean that I accept me being a loser regarding my own standards and live with it? I can hardly do that. When I do not accept that and keep blaming myself I at least fight it and do not give up.

 

@Barb:

Sorry, my comprehension of the Englisch language is not good enoug to understand that

I mean quite the contrary...

[Altostrata]

Self-acceptance means appreciating yourself as you are, and not calling yourself a "loser."

 

Maybe, do you fear if you don't keep beating yourself, you won't do anything? That's probably where you need to start. Have confidence in yourself, you don't need to be whipped to move.

[ajay]

Maybe, am I correct in noting that you manage to have a job through all this?

 

That's pretty impressive.

 

You judge yourself harshly. Do you judge your friends and colleagues the same way?

 

I am very discouraged that I will not have the life I could have had and that my brain, which was once rather remarkable, no longer functions well. I can't say if or when it will ever come back and whether I can salvage some of my dreams. But I have found that dwelling on this does nothing for me. It will not help me heal. On the contrary, it keeps me down.

 

I have much better days if I can get out of my own head. Spend time with friends, go for walks, whatever I can.

 

The only important things about past mistakes are the lessons you learn from them. You cannot change what happened. Please try to see some of your choices as if they were made by a dear friend. You did the best you could at the time. You didn't know then what you know now.

 

Maybe, you deserve to heal. You deserve to be happy. The world can be a rough place - there is no need to beat yourself up. Please try to forgive the vulnerable person you were and are.

 

I don't know if anything I've said here is helpful, but it was meant to be kind. I wish you some peace of mind.

[Maybe]

@Alto:

 

Accepting that, would mean that I am, at least currently, a loser. Due to my health and brain malfunction I cannot compete with others, I cannot do sports and I cannot go out an live a life, found a family. And I am 32. Time is running through my fingers. Normally, as a man, I would be in my prime right now, but I am lower than low.

I was always more sensible than others and as a guy this has set me on the downward path. If I would have been a much stronger person, I never would have taken those nasty pills for I never would have had so many psychological problems.

 

@Ajay:

Well, yes. But after a fashion (if this is the correct proverb). I have a Bachelor of Arts and am doing the work of an intern. No motivation, not able to cope with stress (body), no concentration, bad memory. And I see how all others are developing, how they learn new things, gain knowledge. Many younger colleagues know much more than I do, because I forget everything. Another reason I could beat myself every minute...

 

But no, I only judge myself. I think I have no right to judge others.

 

I would so love to be healthy again, so I can take on the mental issues, but no, my cns is a mess and unpredictable. Yesterday night was harsh again, aroused cns, GI problems, headaches and dizziness. This always costs me all the strength that I have left.

[Altostrata]

Maybe, you are hurting yourself when you compare your present situation to your ideal of what you should be. It's the ideal at fault, not you.

 

Change the ideal and accept yourself. You're doing the best you can right now. In many ways, you are doing an amazing job carrying on through all the distress you've suffered.

 

Let go of your ideal. When did you develop it, when you were 10? Time to grow up into the present.

 

The old model does not fit you now. When you let go of that past model, and accept yourself for who you are now, you will see new avenues open up for you and you will grow in a different direction.

[Maybe]

Do you know what this would imply? Giving up the wish to have a family, children, be successful in your career? I would be a nothing in modern society. Giving up my ideals would mean that I have nothing I would want to live for. I could kill myself right away if I did that.

 

I am more and more losing myself. I do not who I am anymore, I do not know anymore what is normal. I had lots of mental problems, but those small 4 pills killed the rest off.

[ajay]

Dear Maybe,

 

I wish that I had gone off the pills when I was younger. You see time slipping through your fingers, and I understand that - I am in a very similar panic. But I am 41. I'm female, and it is too late for me to have children. As I look for a new job, I am discouraged to find that the jobs I think I can do are probably jobs I could have done right after college. I feel a huge sense of loss, and a crushing depression and complete lack of energy and curiosity that is nothing like what I felt before the meds.

 

I have had people tell me that I'm still young, and that I still have time.

 

And then I see where you are and wish I'd had your head start. Just to pick a number, if it takes you 5 more years of healing until you feel recovered, you will be 37 - still well ahead of me, at least, and many others in this group.

 

I have friends who were married young and then divorced. One friend lost his wife in an accident. Even when you think you have what you'd planned for in life, you can have the rug pulled out from under you and have to start all over. If you had a physical injury or a stroke, it would take you some time to recover and rehabilitate. Even if you see yourself as a loser - which discredits so much of what you have learned - you are only in that spot temporarily. It's perhaps a fine point of language, but I would argue that though you may feel like a loser these days, that doesn't define you.

 

I wish I knew how to help. I completely understand you frustration. But I think dwelling on it holds you back. If we have new, drug-free neurons slowly developing, we need to encourage them and nurture them like vulnerable children. Be kind to them.

 

On a side note, how is your sleep? I often wonder if my brain is so crippled just because it doesn't get enough stimulation or sleep.

[Crocus]

Hello Maybe;

 

I am new here, but I certainly understand the frustration of wanting to get on with life and do the things I dream of. I am 55 years old. I went back to school in 08 and finished my bachelors degree. In 09 I moved out of state, separating from my husband and finished getting my MSW.

 

I was jazzed. I was going to come back, divorce and move to the east coast and have a great career and maybe a private practice. At 52 I still felt that I could take life by storm.

 

I came back and my mom had Alzheimers and died months later. My husband(we both had changed our outlook on life) and I decided we would not get "back" together, but start a new relationship and it has been wonderful. I put out tons of resumes, only got 2 interviews and was told that they don't hire people my age right now (wtf?) I let my grey hair grow out since I had "time". I thought I would wean off meds since I had "time". Thought it'd take a few weeks or a month...work on my health, exercise...

 

In May it will be 2 years since getting my degree. I found a bad volunteer position, but have to call in sometimes if the weaning symptoms are bad. I am sad and really tried to rush the weaning. I am good at what I do, but can find no where to be. A good friend has breast cancer. She got her degree (MSW) a year after me. We have lunch and talk about what we thought we'd be doing right now - not this!! Strange, we share so many of the same symptoms - hers from cancer and mine from withdrawl.

 

I believe I am on a path in this life. I don't get to choose it, not in the big picture. My husband, who wanted to be a house husband is now working out in the field again in construction. I feel frantic to heal and go to work. I worry that he will be injured or get sick from the stress of a 70+ hours a week job. He used to own a company, now he works for a bad one.

 

I am sorry that this took so many words, but my worth? your worth? We are priceless and cannot be any less no matter if we fill all the prescribed roles that society wants us to ..or we have another path in life. My life is not over and I will still plan, dream, etc. Right now though this is my reality and i have to embrace that. I have to get up each day and be the best I can be at - being me.

 

The "happy" beautiful people is a bill of good that media and marketing has sold us. I know this for a fact. I have met too many of them. I had them come into the state mental hospital where I interned. Don't compare your reality to a fantasy that is crazy-making at best.

 

Well, I hope you read this. You are worth living for because of who you are not what you do. I hope you can find some peace in your circumstances. It is there waiting if you look for it.

[Altostrata]

Maybe, you need to stop torturing yourself. Which is more important, your well-being now or a dream for the future?

 

Resigning oneself, or surrendering, or letting go, is not an expression of failure. In fact, it's key to Buddhist thought.

 

There was a time that I was very frightened about my shortened horizons. My life was only day to day. I couldn't make any plans. I know how this feels. I have a lot of disappointments, too.

 

As Ajay and Crocus say, when you have recovered, you can make new plans and accomplish them. In addition, if you learn to take care of yourself in your current state, you will be stronger and more confident in your new self. You will find new ways to express yourself.

 

This is how growth works, when you learn to deal with the Now.