Shanti: tapering off Paxil

[Nikki]

On the other website, there were so many people who talked about waves hitting them at 3 - 6 - 9 months off and there after.

 

I was amazed at how common this is. I am impatient, especially with AD's. So I understand getting antsy to get off Xanax.

 

I agree with Alto. Any chemical change can set off a bad wave.

 

I would rather be angry than anxious or depressed any day.

 

This should pass

 

Hugs

[Shanti]

Bar, we are so much alike in many ways lol. Yes, it's the thought of a natural disaster, or that we're going to have a serious economic and political collapse. Something that will close the pharmacies in some way. And yes, I think it does have something to do with the Bag Lady Syndrome. Interesting that you said that, as I was just talking about it on another forum I'm on. A women's group. It is interesting how that neo-anger does cause the desire to THROW. Not just hit. It must have something to do with wanting to get this out of our system, to get it out of our body and energy field.

 

Nikki, it's true, I would take the neo-anger over the neo-anxiety and depression. It's still unbearable, but not as bad. Not as devastating. Have you read anything from others about how long the relapse of symptoms generally last?

[Brandy]

Bar, we are so much alike in many ways lol. Yes, it's the thought of a natural disaster, or that we're going to have a serious economic and political collapse. Something that will close the pharmacies in some way.

 

Not to brag, but I predicted a lot of the recent economic problems (real estate market tanking etc.). Long before they happened. Everybody I told about these things sneered and scoffed, but I was right.

 

I'm still very pessimistic about the economy.

 

But Shanti and Barb, I honestly think pharmacies are the one sure bet to not go away.

[Brandy]

Your statement about all pharmacies closing down... yes, me too! My version is some natural disaster. I dont worry about food, water, money. But DO panic about DRUGS! I'm not a hoarder by any stretch...quite the opposite. A minimalist of sorts. Do you think this is related to the Bag Lady Syndrome in any way?

 

I get very nervous because scripts are now so regulated...can't refill a 30 day script sooner than 28 days, even if going out of town. Very nerve racking. GRRR}}}}

 

I think this is very understandable. Maybe because I've had health problems most of my life and learned early on to always keep the necessities on hand. (Have a cupboard full of toilet paper lol.)

 

I always try to get my meds refilled at least two weeks in advance. So that absurd rule of your insurance company's would really bother me.

 

Is it possible to have your doctor prescribe a small amount of your med or meds in a different dose or different form for you to "try" - then "not like it after all" and go back to refilling your usual dose/form, keeping the one you (briefly) "tried" on hand as an emergency supply? (With a pill cutter on hand if necessary.)

 

I don't know if this would work with your insurance company. I don't have any insurance coverage for meds, but I was concerned when I recently went from cutting 2 mg clonazepam tabs in fourths, to getting the actual 0.5 mg tabs, that they wouldn't fill the Rx (it being a controlled substance) since I'd recently refilled the 2 mg tabs. Or that it would louse up future refills on the (color-free) 2 mg. tabs if I tried the 0.5s for a little while and couldn't tolerate them.

 

But there was no problem. Though I'm doing okay on the 0.5s, when getting the new Rx for them, the pharmacy told me to have the doctor explain that I needed them in the different dose so I could get the new Rx filled without waiting. And I was told that if I couldn't tolerate them, I didn't need to take the full supply and would be able to continue getting more refills on the 2s when needed. The key was having the doctor document the nature of it being a trial change in the prescription he faxed to the pharmacy and in his own records.

 

I hope I won't need the 2 mg leftover supply, but at least I have an emergency stash if I need it. (Or throw the pill bottle out the window lol.)

 

(That reminds me - maybe you and Shanti should take up, if not javelin throwing, maybe volleyball or perhaps basketball practice at the gym or local Y! Hey, it would be good exercise!)

[Shanti]

Brandy, I was thinking the same thing last night when I was trying to figure out a solution for Bar and others that have their meds on such a tight refill schedule. I'd talk to my doctor and tell him my fear, and maybe he can give you some samples or what you said, that was a very good idea. Fortunately I only have Xanax to worry about now and since I take one a day while my script is for 3 a day, I can easily get a head (I have 2 extra bottles right now). But if this wasn't the case, I'd even go so far as to buy a supply on street to keep on hand if I had to. When I was on the Paxil and my attempts at dry cutting, I would save every extra bit of the powder.

 

I also have a stock of toilet paper lol. Every month I make a trip to the cannery and buy a few bags of canned food and store them. So it's not just the meds for me. I have a storage area of emergency food. I feel the coming collapse is going to be a real "clearing of the slate". Because the mess we're in isn't fixable imo. It has to be demolished before we build something new and different.

[areyouthere]

 

 

I would rather be angry than anxious or depressed any day.

 

This should pass

 

Hugs

 

DITTO!!

[starlitegirlx]

Your neo-anger...is that different than neuro-anger (because both make sense). I also have overwhelming urges to throw objects. Not hit objects, not use objects to hit other objects, but a distinct urge to THROW. In early w/d, I did throw my Droid mobile and it collided with sliding glass door. Both were fatalities. It reminds me of when I threw a ham sandwich at my mother (story in Toxic Family thread). Anyway, when you said you had urge to throw laptop, I had to jump in. Do they make pitching cages along with batting cages??

 

This is me at times. It comes on so suddenly that I go into a rage. A serious rage where I have to let it out. I cannot not let it out. So I throw things and when there's nothing to throw I smash something into the floor repeatedly. I'm at the 3month mark off my AD. Hearing that it's 3, 6 and 9 and then even later than that is not comforting. So does that mean that in Dec then March I'll have these relapses again? I haven't even cleared the gate of the withdrawal now. I'm still going through it at three months. After nine months or a year does this stuff come back again? I'm a strong person but the possibility of having to keep reliving this withdrawal is not one I choose to endure at my age where there is literally no reason to bother. I have nothing. No reason. No hopes. No future to speak of beyond living in a bedroom, watching TV, playing some video games when I come across one I like, which is very rare. At some point maybe I'll be able to go to the cafe and go to the gym and on walks in the park but that seems like it's far out and more like spring summer of next year given where I am. Is this how it's going to be?

[Shanti]

I think they are saying 3, 6 OR 9. I'm pretty sure anyway. That agitation and inner frustration that causes this neuro-anger, is not like regular anger. It's torturous. While I would agree for myself that the depression and anxiety is worse, it's not much better. It's like nothing I've felt before. Fortunately all this went away already. Though I'm thinking it was from the attempt to taper the Benzo now, not a relapse.

[Barbarannamated]

 

Your neo-anger...is that different than neuro-anger (because both make sense). I also have overwhelming urges to throw objects. Not hit objects, not use objects to hit other objects, but a distinct urge to THROW. In early w/d, I did throw my Droid mobile and it collided with sliding glass door. Both were fatalities. It reminds me of when I threw a ham sandwich at my mother (story in Toxic Family thread). Anyway, when you said you had urge to throw laptop, I had to jump in. Do they make pitching cages along with batting cages??

 

This is me at times. It comes on so suddenly that I go into a rage. A serious rage where I have to let it out. I cannot not let it out. So I throw things and when there's nothing to throw I smash something into the floor repeatedly. I'm at the 3month mark off my AD. Hearing that it's 3, 6 and 9 and then even later than that is not comforting. So does that mean that in Dec then March I'll have these relapses again? I haven't even cleared the gate of the withdrawal now. I'm still going through it at three months. After nine months or a year does this stuff come back again? I'm a strong person but the possibility of having to keep reliving this withdrawal is not one I choose to endure at my age where there is literally no reason to bother. I have nothing. No reason. No hopes. No future to speak of beyond living in a bedroom, watching TV, playing some video games when I come across one I like, which is very rare. At some point maybe I'll be able to go to the cafe and go to the gym and on walks in the park but that seems like it's far out and more like spring summer of next year given where I am. Is this how it's going to be?

 

Starlitegirl,

 

I'm posting from a mobile and can't see your history, so bear with me as I try to explain my experience of this.

 

I tapered fast and furious (very sloppy) and had no idea that what I was experiencing was due to withdrawal. I'm certain that any psychiatrist unfamiliar with withdrawal would have diagnosed me with hypomania due to my anger outbursts, especially in the 2-3 months following my last dose (Summer of 2011). I ran away from home several times (one time to a little resortvin Arizona where i had no cell coverage, didnt know it, husband put APB out on me, cops showed up..). As my emotions (read:anger!) returned, it felt INTENSE and husband (also drugged into oblivion) was very flat and unemotional. I recall trying to get any emotional reaction out of him. It was during one of those "please EMOTE!" arguments that Droid met slider. I will have to take a picture of that door that's still held together by his methodical duct taping. I wanted to get ANY emotional response, good or bad. I was not rational but didnt realize it at the time.

 

At that time, he kept a baseball bat near the bed for protection. I had an OVERWHELMING urge to use it to destroy his car. I finally asked him to remove it. I feel certain that I would have smashed his car (nothing personal, just an old Honda). I finally ran away in July and drove across the country. No plans at all, just threw all i could into my car one morning, told hubby I was gone and started driving east. I was gone from July through October. Turned out to be the best thing I could have done at that time. My life has been empty for many years, force into medical retirement at age 39, no kids, no family.

 

*The anger and rage has subsided ALOT* The time period toward the end of taper and 3 months out were pronounced. I drove for hours at a time listening to "angry music", blasting it and screaming along, hitting the steering wheel. Driving and music were my outlet. Is there anything you have like that? I began to really hear music in a way I never had before. Songs I knew by heart suddenly had lyrics that I understood! It was a wild time, and scary, but very much a process. I didn't have any urges to hurt myself or other people, just inanimate objects. My hair was a casualty. I hacked most of it off in the past year. It.is a compulsion and need to control, not self harm (never a cutter or burner...hair grows back, no permanent damage). I have read that hair hacking isnt uncommon in withdrawal, just fyi.

 

I do still get urges to throw things, but not overwhelming and I haven't followed through (perhaps I should).

 

It sounds like you are exactly where I was shortly after my taper. It DOES get much easier. Actually, I went the opposite direction and to no energy in November after I returned home to California. I describe it as going from very revved up to coasting in neutral, absolutely no impulsion from within. I rarely go anywhere farther than the next room.

 

Can you describe your anger/rage in more detail? Is it triggered by certain people, thoughts, memories, etc.? I will read your thread as soon as I post this.

 

Barb

[starlitegirlx]

My anger is actually triggered by my mother or thinking of my brother and how he never bothered with me for 20 years for the most part beyond calling when he needed something. I cut ties to him as of a few weeks ago after a long phone argument and me yelling at him because he was pressuring me to come here and visit when i wasn't well only a few weeks after I had told him I was ready to cut him out of my life entirely due to his consistent not even trying to maintain a relationship and my awareness of him wanting the house and items in it after my mom dies or whatever happens as he thinks he can manipulate me. He's very materialistic and I think he's only kept up minimal contact to ensure he stays on my good side so he can manipulate me into getting what he wants.

 

So really I think what is happening is that it's not so sudden but the situation exists and as it persists my anger goes into a zone where I can no longer compensate for it and become so enraged that outlash is the outcome. My mom is a trigger person who doesn't get it, however, I think she might finally be getting it after the neighbor called (made her feel embarrassed i think especially realizing it fell dead square on her shoulders because that's where I placed the blame). I told her had she shut up and left none of that would have happened and I wouldn't have smashed my beautiful tiffany lamp that I paid $150 for some years ago and did really love but in that rage moment hated enough to smash well beyond repair. She said she felt awful about it. I told her it doesn't matter. it's gone. But it's her fault it's gone. Then about a half hour ago I got a call from HSN about the lamp trying to narrow down the dates to find it and maybe see if they can get it. I suspect her guilt has gotten to her and that she wants to replace it because she knows (as I had stated multiple times yesterday) that it was all her fault and I refuse to accept any responsibility since she was warned early in the day that I was unstable and to leave me be but she had to come up and probe and when I told her to leave she had to push more.

 

Today, I got the doorknob with the lock but couldn't put it in. I've decided to tell her to call the handyman and that I will pay for it but I want a lock on my door to protect me from her when she is in the mood to push my buttons even if she doesn't realize it. The handyman must already think she's a piece of work because last fall he had to fix my shower upstairs where the water had been running cold for ages and I had told her about it but she ignored it. He tried to get it hot and then said it's cold. My mom put her hand under it and said it's tepid. He said it's cold. I said that's how it's been for about three years and when I told her she ignored it. I think he was horrified but chose to say nothing since it was a strange position for him to be in. But I will make her place the call and get him over here this week and tell him it is to put a locking doorknob on my door so I can be left alone when I am having a terrible day from med withdrawal rather than her standing in my doorway and inciting me to destroy things I treasure. I am going to make her do that. This way there is immediate acceptance that I'm getting that lock on my door, no drama, and she has to look like a crazy person that I'm protecting myself from when the guy installs it. I'll tell her that it's so we don't have any more incidents like we did the other day because I can't risk that she won't listen when I say leave me alone, go away or whatever I say to stop the situation from gaining momentum. She needs the shame. I will make her live in it. She should be ashamed. She should be horrified at her actions in inciting a mentally ill daughter who has minimal coping skills during horrible withdrawal after already being told it was a bad day and to stay away. I just don't care anymore. I have nothing left to lose. Suicide is a clear and viable option. Now, I'm coming out of my corner where I stayed most of my life while she controlled and abused me in subtle but still cruel and detrimental ways. And I am going to make her show people that it was never me. I always steered clear with only a few times pushing back verbally. She plays the victim after inciting me, but she is not the victim. She's the one who puts the metaphorical gun in my hand then sends me into such a rage that it's next to impossible that I won't use it.

[Barbarannamated]

I'm getting a very clear picture of your mother and the unimaginable stress she's causing and sending you into understandable rage.

 

It sounds like you've found her vulnerability - other peoples' opinions of her and the situation. I played into a similar dynamic all my life, protecting the family image. The cognitive dissonance and distress it causes is paralyzing.

 

I hope the doorlock installation goes without drama.

[Shanti]

I agree that the lock and the way you're handling it is good for her to see herself and her behavior. She should know better.

[starlitegirlx]

She's refusing to call the repairman and promising she will never do it again. Suffice to say I do not believe it but I am even more concerned about why having a lock on my door is such an issue to her. I have no idea what to do from here. This actually makes me suicidal. Extremely suicidal. At 44 I hoped to be past this. Or dead. I may have to get a civil lawyer/mediator into the game. I don't know what else to do. But I'm in the worst condition possible to do this right now. I feel as though i have no rights as a person. And I flat out told her that if she ever breaks pushes me how she did the other day she will find a cold dead bloody corpse because living like this was bad enough but now she's getting even more controlling and I feel vulnerable and unsafe. She makes me feel unsafe. I feel very at risk with her around after the other day but now even more so after her not being able to let me get a lock for my own personal safety but that can also be opened in the case of an emergency. She promises she will listen and not push when I give her a warning after what happened the other day and yet, I know she will break that promise as she has lied to me and manipulated me many times in the past.

 

So now I have to get my mind off of this despite it's bringing out a lot of fear and vulnerability given how she was when I got very sick about 20 years ago. It's like a reminder of that. A total reminder of it.

 

Edited to add: she never sees herself as wrong. Never. It's like a personality disorder. She always justifies and rationalizes her actions and is never wrong no matter what she has done. Also, she rewrites history quite well.

[Shanti]

My ex was like that, never wrong about anything and justifying everything. I didn't say it before because I didn't want to jinx anything, but having others on your side to verify to her that her behavior towards you is wrong, doesn't necessarily put them to shame and make them stop. I've just seen it too many times. What usually happens is you end up accused of brainwashing others to be against her. I think legal action might be a way to go. Can you get her into some kind of counseling with you? I think you're both going to need help with this.

[Shanti]

About rewriting history, I know it seems like they do it on purpose and consciously, but that comes from disassociation. In their mental illness, they don't remember events as they happen in physical, but they recall them in emotions, in how they felt. This is another "Crazy Making" tactic. I'm telling you Starlite, all this behavior is classic. They all use the same behaviors to make you crazy. Rewriting history is a huge problem because it can make you ungrounded and lead to psychotic depression, losing your sense of reality. Please believe me when I say that arming yourself with informations and strategies from professionals is the way to go, and that book I recommended covers all these tactics they use.

[starlitegirlx]

My ex was like that, never wrong about anything and justifying everything. I didn't say it before because I didn't want to jinx anything, but having others on your side to verify to her that her behavior towards you is wrong, doesn't necessarily put them to shame and make them stop. I've just seen it too many times. What usually happens is you end up accused of brainwashing others to be against her. I think legal action might be a way to go. Can you get her into some kind of counseling with you? I think you're both going to need help with this.

 

She refused counseling 20 years ago with my father and myself and her. She only agreed to it when it was her and me with her lied to idiot counselor who did her no good and actually made her worse I think. So counseling is out. I've just avoided her as much as possible for years. I was forced to care for her in a limited capacity for about 3 years while she had total knee replacements.

 

The bigger issue I see at this moment is that I live with her and really should not. The hoard house she created is unsafe. She is unsafe. With my name on the deed, I'm best off to just take legal action to get the house sold only that would take money I don't have. I have tried. I have truly tried. For years i did my best to make and keep peace but mostly it was placating her and ignoring her behaviors. If this along with mental illness and now withdrawal is my future, it is quite grim. I can't even look at the possibility of it. It's horrific at best.

[Shanti]

Even if you don't feel that using strategies would work, knowledge and understanding empowers you and protects you from the psychosis that she is trying to push you into. I can guess probably accurately that she was pushed into psychosis in this very way in her past. When you understand the causes, it makes it easier to keep your own sanity and be more in true peace and grace under fire. If you can't get counseling and can't escape her, then this is your only option. I can only tell you that I've been there and I've studied it extensively as I am a minister and counselor. It's what I do so I make it my business. But I can't help you if you don't take these things I'm saying seriously, and I probably won't offer advice any further. If you feel it's a lost cause and disregard what I'm saying, then I have to let it be and wish you the best. Blessings.

[Barbarannamated]

I agree with all Shanti said. I have not experienced anything like what you are both describing, but there is a clear need for documentation and professional intervention of some sort. Emotional battery is sometimes worse than physical because it leaves no obvious visible scars.

 

Is your doctor aware of what is going on? Do you have any way to record conversations or altercations on phone or computer?

 

You are handling this far better than I would be.

[Shanti]

And it is nearly impossible to handle without losing it. I spent the first half of my life with a dad that was Schizophrenic and focused all his anger at me, then the next 20 years with a man with Dissociative Personality Disorder, again focusing his anger at me. I would be in an insane asylum by now if I didn't take steps to protect my mind. In both situations I had no escape. Even when I'd try to leave to cool off, my dad would do such things as pull something out of my car motor to keep me there. I know what it's like to be trapped. Aside from the first book I suggested, I recommend Radical Forgiveness by Colin Tippin. These two books alone could make the difference for keeping your sanity.

[starlitegirlx]

And it is nearly impossible to handle without losing it. I spent the first half of my life with a dad that was Schizophrenic and focused all his anger at me, then the next 20 years with a man with Dissociative Personality Disorder, again focusing his anger at me. I would be in an insane asylum by now if I didn't take steps to protect my mind. In both situations I had no escape. Even when I'd try to leave to cool off, my dad would do such things as pull something out of my car motor to keep me there. I know what it's like to be trapped. Aside from the first book I suggested, I recommend Radical Forgiveness by Colin Tippin. These two books alone could make the difference for keeping your sanity.

 

I'm sorry you had to go through this. I think of this book I read called 'dying to be me' about this woman who has horrific cancer, end stage, about to die (look the book up on amazon and get her name then do a search - she has some amazing videos that are well worth watching - they are about experience when she was in a coma - amazing stuff that I think you would love, shanti). And she went into a coma then connected with some other dimension for lack of better understanding. She could see everything including how all these events in her life made perfect sense and order to her from there but she couldn't see that during her life. I think about that a lot - that there is a logic to the madness that we cannot see while living on planet earth in this plane of existence. Of course, it doesn't make what we go through here any better or any easier other than to think there's a grander purpose beyond our understanding that will make sense one day.

 

I hope the worst of your relapse has passed or is over. It could be just that the body is going through fine tuning and adjustments to continue healing toward how it should be before the meds. That's how I like to imagine it. I know there's some very scary stuff out there about how many months out it comes back worse than ever and you're screwed, but I don't believe that. I think that there are too many variables to say what was going on with those people whose stories we've not heard but are like tales told to children to keep them from doing what parents don't want. I'm not convinced they aren't stories floated by big pharma. Or maybe they are true, but they appear to be in such a minority that I question how often that happens and consider them to be rather rare.

 

I think it's just another stage of the recovery process and maybe there was a stressor that triggered it. Also, you seem rather strong and I think that's key to getting through these patches.

[Shanti]

I totally agree with that philosophy, Starlite. We have a lot in common I think. I have a belief (with my personal proof) that there is much more to this experience than meets the eye. I'm very much into my Native Spirituality and experience another dimension to all events. I think we talked about this in Finding Meaning somewhere. I posted the quote from Carl Jung "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order. " It's that secret order of things that can be seen if we look, and it often explains why we go through things in this life. I totally love my dad and my ex, and I am truly grateful for every experience I've had in my life. I know what it was for and why, and I'm glad. Here is something on my website about this that I wrote:

 

"We see everything in 3 dimensions, but I believe there is a 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. When you get into spirituality, (not religion), you open your mind to new ideas. This opening up in itself expands your consciousness. When you keep seeking for the truth, you will find it. But you have to believe there is MORE and that you will be shown. It really works. There is More to everything. So much I see, I see More. And I capitalize More because it's Divine. Really."

 

It's often explained in these deeper more expansive dimensions the "whys" of things. And it's always for the betterment of the soul, no matter what the experience was.

 

Oh, and thank you, yes I am past this relapse! Though I don't think it was a relapse but from the Xanax w/d attempt.

[starlitegirlx]

I wish I knew the 'why' for myself. At times I think it is to prove I have strength to endure what I do not want, but I've already proven that to myself or at least right now I am at the point as to completely proving it. Other times I think it is to choose light instead of dark or at least not abandon the light. To always find some glimmer of love and compassion even when by all logic there is none. Maybe it's both. The down side of those reasons is that if they are fixed reasons they don't present options for something I would prefer because having the life I would like would not play to the reason unless by finally and truly embracing what I would run from I no longer need that reason because I have embraced it as who I am. That might mean release from that specific need for these things to keep happening.

 

I've never really just embraced what I don't want. I've never really just loved and had compassion where it is most challenging to love and have compassion. So who knows? Maybe this is the time, then see what happens after that just out of curiosity... does that repetition of certain types of events keep happening or does the hold break and freedom is found?

[Shanti]

All people in my life are Archetypes, all animals I meet are Totems. All experiences and things are dream symbols to interpret because it's all a dream. This means that everything I experience is a reflection of how I feel about myself. All the Archetypes are me, and if I don't like them, then there is something about myself they represent that I don't like. Love for all experience is the only thing that sets your free from karmic cycles. It's all to learn to love yourself by loving others, unconditionally. That's my view anyway. It's what I experience and it's what freed me from my past cycle. We don't make karma with other people really. We make karma with ourselves. And for me, all of these things made me much stronger, more understanding, calmer and more at peace with myself.

[Shanti]

And it's all the Fool's Journey of the Tarot. Every pivitol experience is a card. My dad and ex were probably the Devil lol. My experience in this w/d is the Tower of Destruction. But what is next is the Star I don't think we can go from one card to the next without appreciating and being grateful for each one, because they are all us.

[starlitegirlx]

All people in my life are Archetypes, all animals I meet are Totems. All experiences and things are dream symbols to interpret because it's all a dream. This means that everything I experience is a reflection of how I feel about myself. All the Archetypes are me, and if I don't like them, then there is something about myself they represent that I don't like. Love for all experience is the only thing that sets your free from karmic cycles. It's all to learn to love yourself by loving others, unconditionally. That's my view anyway. It's what I experience and it's what freed me from my past cycle. We don't make karma with other people really. We make karma with ourselves. And for me, all of these things made me much stronger, more understanding, calmer and more at peace with myself.

 

This is almost exactly word for word with an understanding I once had but it got lost over time and through various challenges. Thanks again for sharing it with me. I remember now.

[Shanti]

 

All people in my life are Archetypes, all animals I meet are Totems. All experiences and things are dream symbols to interpret because it's all a dream. This means that everything I experience is a reflection of how I feel about myself. All the Archetypes are me, and if I don't like them, then there is something about myself they represent that I don't like. Love for all experience is the only thing that sets your free from karmic cycles. It's all to learn to love yourself by loving others, unconditionally. That's my view anyway. It's what I experience and it's what freed me from my past cycle. We don't make karma with other people really. We make karma with ourselves. And for me, all of these things made me much stronger, more understanding, calmer and more at peace with myself.

 

This is almost exactly word for word with an understanding I once had but it got lost over time and through various challenges. Thanks again for sharing it with me. I remember now.

 

I lost it for a while too. I think that's called the Dark Night of the Soul.

 

 

 

(This probably needs to be in the Finding Meaning area. I'm keeping admins busy lately! lol Sorry!)

[Shanti]

I knew I'd love to discuss philosophy and spirit with you Starlite. I could feel it. You can tell me what was the straw that broke the camels back? For me it was illness. After I'd been through a life of abuse, barely keeping my head above water, then to find my Spirit and attain such a height. THEN, came the illness and even more suffering and impossible events and circumstances. I was knocked off of the top of a mountain. Fell off a cliff. Drowning in dark water. How could I possible sense that Light and spirit again? I'm not one to fake it. I can't be religious and follow any beliefs at all without the spiritual experience and light driving me. But I lost that so then I had nothing. Yeah, I think that is the Dark Night.

[Barbarannamated]

LOL at keeping Admins busy! Just thinking same thing.

 

Shanti, again, you describe a feeling ive had though I never endured the horrible abuse you did. With me, it was learning that after nearly 20 years of being treated for "psych problems" and chronic pain, totally losing my way in the world, career, friends, *everything*! it was a missed diagnosis by "too many doctors to know who to sue" (per lawyer). I fought my way through all those years, off of pain meds using acupuncture and chiro to get fairly functional. Then learned that my entire Neuroendocrine/immune system had been the cause and that the psych drugs were making it all worse through the years. And there's nothing I can do but treat the mess im left with. It left me totally and profoundly defeated.

 

But I have a very stubborn survival streak.

[starlitegirlx]

LOL at keeping Admins busy! Just thinking same thing.

 

Shanti, again, you describe a feeling ive had though I never endured the horrible abuse you did. With me, it was learning that after nearly 20 years of being treated for "psych problems" and chronic pain, totally losing my way in the world, career, friends, *everything*! it was a missed diagnosis by "too many doctors to know who to sue" (per lawyer). I fought my way through all those years, off of pain meds using acupuncture and chiro to get fairly functional. Then learned that my entire Neuroendocrine/immune system had been the cause and that the psych drugs were making it all worse through the years. And there's nothing I can do but treat the mess im left with. It left me totally and profoundly defeated.

 

But I have a very stubborn survival streak.

 

I think I'd be feeling horribly abused after all that.

[starlitegirlx]

I knew I'd love to discuss philosophy and spirit with you Starlite. I could feel it. You can tell me what was the straw that broke the camels back? For me it was illness. After I'd been through a life of abuse, barely keeping my head above water, then to find my Spirit and attain such a height. THEN, came the illness and even more suffering and impossible events and circumstances. I was knocked off of the top of a mountain. Fell off a cliff. Drowning in dark water. How could I possible sense that Light and spirit again? I'm not one to fake it. I can't be religious and follow any beliefs at all without the spiritual experience and light driving me. But I lost that so then I had nothing. Yeah, I think that is the Dark Night.

 

Too many straws to list. I try to leave them in the past as the ashes they are now that I've set fire to them. The hits just kept coming. I'd get a little time off and then it would be something else. Now, I'm just finding strength in it. Kind of like giving the universe the finger. I actually have little chats with god where I say stuff like 'bring it on, all of it, go ahead, stop with the slow games and just bring it on and let's see if I make it out alive!' I've gone a bit crazy in that way. And frankly, I'm feeling like life on earth is a hellhole for most people, too much suffering for most and that leaves me feeling as though I'm going to rip a new one to whomever is running the show. The way I see it, whatever 'lessons' these are or whatever the reason we come here, the system is totally broken and needs an update. Something as simple as helping us to connect a little better with the point of it or at least feel there's a point to it and it's a good one, kind of like how a general would rally the troops before battle. I think if the hellhole is going to stay filled with suffering because there's a purpose in it that we aren't privy to ATM, we ought to at least get some kind of great speech or understanding that whatever goes on here doesn't harm us in the grand scheme and only matters in that we learn who we are from it, that it brings out who we are.

 

I've had so many dark nights of the soul that I've lost count. Now, I'm tired, cranky and despite periods of suicidal thought, I think it's just really pissed me off enough that I'm going to push forward just because I can. I'm that pissed about how this life, most of our lives have been filled with suffering that I want to get to that end moment and be totally coherent and say, 'your system sucks. Fix it.' I want to be able to say that before the unconditional love. I want it to be known that I know this place is no real. It's some kind of dream or illusion, but that makes it more like a nightmare that we get lost in and because we don't know squat, most of us anyway or we only know just enough to get by, it makes the whole thing stupid in my not so humble opinion. Of course, I have the audacity to question God or whomever the thing behind the curtain is and to tell it that there's a better way and if it's truly omnipotent it would find it simply because while we're here, it feels less than fun to most. I'd really love to force whatever put all this in motion to come down here and be one of us for about a century. Suffering and fumbling through. Struggles galore. No knowledge of anything but this like the majority of the planet and then when it's over ask that omnipotent being how it felt while in hell.

 

Sure, maybe when it's over we forget about all the suffering, but that doesn't make it any better since time here can drag if you're not in a good place or living a 'good' life. I'm in the mood to have a deathmatch with god. Go figure. Not that I don't love my god. I just think a good ass kicking is in order and some living in hell would prove the system is brutal to say the least. I mean really, is this the only way we can learn who we are?

[Jemima]

I'm at the 3 month mark off my AD. Hearing that it's 3, 6 and 9 and then even later than that is not comforting. So does that mean that in Dec then March I'll have these relapses again? I haven't even cleared the gate of the withdrawal now. I'm still going through it at three months. After nine months or a year does this stuff come back again?

 

Brief relapses have been reported by a few people at varying intervals, but they are NOT inevitable. They don't happen to everyone and they seem to be completely unpredictable, no doubt because each of us is unique. I just passed the nine month mark, and if anything I'm getting better. And like Shanti's case with Xanax, these "relapses" may occur due to something else destabilizing the nervous system. I do think we remain oversensitized for some time after getting past the physical aspects of withdrawal and have to be quite careful.

 

I'm a strong person but the possibility of having to keep reliving this withdrawal is not one I choose to endure at my age where there is literally no reason to bother. I have nothing. No reason. No hopes. No future to speak of beyond living in a bedroom, watching TV, playing some video games when I come across one I like, which is very rare. At some point maybe I'll be able to go to the cafe and go to the gym and on walks in the park but that seems like it's far out and more like spring summer of next year given where I am. Is this how it's going to be?

 

I can give you a flat "No" on that. You're about where I was at three months. I spent most of my time in bed reading during January, February, and March of this year and it took an enormous amount of effort back then to get out and get groceries, take out the trash, et cetera. In late July I began going back to church, then took on physical therapy (for an unrelated problem) about a week later, and am now doing volunteer work on a regular basis and checking out some social groups of interest. (I'm retired - no longer have to be concerned about getting back to work.) There are still times when I have to will myself to do routine chores and other things, but that was also the case before ADs.

 

This is not to say that you will progress exactly as I have; in fact, it's a good bet that you won't. There are just so many variables - type of AD used, length of time used, other drugs taken such as benzos, general health, et cetera, et cetera. My point is that the withdrawal symptoms gradually fade, although the progress tends to be jerky. One day you may feel a lot better, and then go back to feeling rotten for a week. However, once the improvement starts, it keeps coming.

 

Also, please keep in mind that great impatience seems to be one of the very common symptoms of withdrawal. You'll get better, but you will likely be frustrated by the length of time it takes and the nonlinear progression.

[meistersinger]

 

I'm at the 3 month mark off my AD. Hearing that it's 3, 6 and 9 and then even later than that is not comforting. So does that mean that in Dec then March I'll have these relapses again? I haven't even cleared the gate of the withdrawal now. I'm still going through it at three months. After nine months or a year does this stuff come back again?

 

Brief relapses have been reported by a few people at varying intervals, but they are NOT inevitable. They don't happen to everyone and they seem to be completely unpredictable, no doubt because each of us is unique. I just passed the nine month mark, and if anything I'm getting better. And like Shanti's case with Xanax, these "relapses" may occur due to something else destabilizing the nervous system. I do think we remain oversensitized for some time after getting past the physical aspects of withdrawal and have to be quite careful.

 

I'm a strong person but the possibility of having to keep reliving this withdrawal is not one I choose to endure at my age where there is literally no reason to bother. I have nothing. No reason. No hopes. No future to speak of beyond living in a bedroom, watching TV, playing some video games when I come across one I like, which is very rare. At some point maybe I'll be able to go to the cafe and go to the gym and on walks in the park but that seems like it's far out and more like spring summer of next year given where I am. Is this how it's going to be?

 

I can give you a flat "No" on that. You're about where I was at three months. I spent most of my time in bed reading during January, February, and March of this year and it took an enormous amount of effort back then to get out and get groceries, take out the trash, et cetera. In late July I began going back to church, then took on physical therapy (for an unrelated problem) about a week later, and am now doing volunteer work on a regular basis and checking out some social groups of interest. (I'm retired - no longer have to be concerned about getting back to work.) There are still times when I have to will myself to do routine chores and other things, but that was also the case before ADs.

 

This is not to say that you will progress exactly as I have; in fact, it's a good bet that you won't. There are just so many variables - type of AD used, length of time used, other drugs taken such as benzos, general health, et cetera, et cetera. My point is that the withdrawal symptoms gradually fade, although the progress tends to be jerky. One day you may feel a lot better, and then go back to feeling rotten for a week. However, once the improvement starts, it keeps coming.

 

Also, please keep in mind that great impatience seems to be one of the very common symptoms of withdrawal. You'll get better, but you will likely be frustrated by the length of time it takes and the nonlinear progression.

 

Didn't Christ say my grace is sufficient for you in the Scriptures, even in times of trouble? Yes, I 'm the same as anyone else, impatient, scared, greedy, etc. Yes, I keep forgetting this fact also. Yes, I'm a backsliding, backbiting S.O.B. who deserves everything that came to me, as well as what's coming, either good or Ill. But God, JHWH , or whatever your beliefs call the Supreme Being, bu s/he still loves us, and his grace is still sufficient for all of us.

[Shanti]

Dark Night of the Soul means the loss of feeling the Divine, the Guidance. It doesn't mean dark times, or bad times. I think it's a trial to get through without that light to drive you, especially when you feel you need it most. Then when you make it on your own will, it comes back. But that doesn't mean dark and hard times are over. I can attest to that. But your view of the situations is different.

 

I can't tell anyone who I believe God is. But for me, I believe that there is no being out there that caused me to go through any of the things I've lived through. I got myself stuck in the school of hard knocks. I also believe that energy is energy and it never just disappears. So I have to be responsible for the quality of energy I send out. If it's a heavy vibration I sent out, then I have to fix it myself. It won't go away any other way, and if I just left this plane (by rescue from some "god" maybe), then all that energy I left heavy would still be here for others to suffer with. (personal karma turning into world karma).

[Shanti]

That's the whole point Meister. We're suffering. THIS is hell. And we aren't seeing much grace. I personally prefer to take my heaven now.

 

Umm, never mind. I won't say what I originally wrote lol. I just believe that there is a different way to look at Mercy and Grace, and that way really can't be accepted unless you believe in reincarnation.

[Shanti]

Hi all. Last week I went through with the Radio Frequency Neurolysis on my spine. I had it done on 6 places in my lumbar and thoracic spine. It's also called a nerve ablation. I was very sore and it did flare up my w/d symptoms for a few days, maybe from the heavy sedation. But it was worth it! The pain in my back is nearly gone

 

I'm going to start the Xanax taper in a couple of weeks if I keep up like I am. I might only reduce by 2 1/2%. Or, maybe I'll start out with 5% then halfway through I'll switch to 2 1/2. Either way I'm going to do long holds and go very easy. My new doctor is benzo ignorant. So I'm going to my old doctor to refill the Xanax and forget my new doctors idea about switching to Ambien. I want to just go super easy, as I MUST get on with my life here. I'm so tired of not being able to exercise. It's not just affecting me, but my daughter as well. It's like my slump in this pit is contagious to those around me. She needs me to help her with motivation. She isn't well with her whole endocrine system messed up from the tumor in the pituitary. She has bad scoliosis to top it off and it's painful. So I'm going to start doing yoga with her again and going on nature walks. Problem of the past with the w/d has been that any exercise flairs up symptoms as well as my original nerve condition. But, now with the nerve ablation, I think I can do it. That's why I want to go super slow on the Xanax taper, to try to have the ability to do yoga and take walks.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to give you all an update of where I'm at.

[Shanti]

Also, it did occur to me today to go ahead and stay on the Xanax for a year or two. Just to get my life and my daughter's life in order. There is too much going on with her that withdrawals are the last thing I need. I don't know. I'm actually still mulling that idea over in my mind. I don't want her life ruined. I see her totally in a state of anhedonia right now and scared for her depression from all this. I need to give her some inspiration.