Shanti: tapering off Paxil

[Daisy]

Everybody is different and we have to be in tune with our bodies. I am almost done with my tapering of Effexor XR. Xanax has helped cushion the A/D withdrawal. If all goes well, I should finish my A/D before my Xanax taper. I know BB believes that A/D's cushion the Benzo withdrawal, but for me, that is not so.

 

Daisy

[xDebbiejo]

Oh gosh shanti!

 

Sorry to hear about ur back, and you are only on 5 mg? Is that once per day ? As I'm on 5mg of Valium / diazepam only take one or half in the morning.

 

Will I be addicted? Should I not take them? I've been taking them for about two - three months regularly

 

Debbie xx

[Shanti]

If you aren't having any withdrawal symptoms then I'd wait. I think it only takes four weeks to get dependent on Benzos, but I'm not sure. And like Daisy said, everyone is different. I had originally planned on doing the Xanax taper after I was recovered from the AD withdrawal. But discovering this pain might be from the Xanax, I really want to get it over with. I'm having a surprisingly easy time mentally and emotionally in my drop with the Xanax. So maybe the low dose is relevant in that.

[xDebbiejo]

Still having few withdrawal symtoms, any tiny upset sets me off. Still waiting to stabilise on 10mg paroxetine - 5 days on 10mg so far -

 

My situation doesn't help though as not knowing if I'll have a roof over my head soon.

 

MUST STAY POSITIVE!!!

 

I'm glad to hear your not getting any withdrawal symtoms

 

xxxxx

[Altostrata]

Everybody is different and we have to be in tune with our bodies. I am almost done with my tapering of Effexor XR. Xanax has helped cushion the A/D withdrawal. If all goes well, I should finish my A/D before my Xanax taper. I know BB believes that A/D's cushion the Benzo withdrawal, but for me, that is not so.

 

Daisy

 

We don't think antidepressants help benzo tapering, either, Daisy. See Taking multiple psych drugs? Taper the antidepressant first!

[Nikki]

Shanti just for today, look down at your feet to see where they are planted. Someone once told me this before my divorce and it helped center me. In other words, if I look down at my feet now, they are on the floor in my living room. I have a roof over my head, I came home for lunch and will be leaving again at 3:30. The dogs are playing, I just had lunch and my daughter just left. All is well

 

I do own my home and I don't have a mortgage and yet when I get into the fear cycle, I totally forget that.

 

Debbiejo I hope you can stay at 10mgs. Glad you are feeling a little better. Not knowing about where you will be moving is scary stuff. Can you start making phone calls to put a plan together? If you need to take more med, please don't feel bad about having to do that. We have a tendency to do beat ourselves up for having to go back up in dose.

 

Hugs

[Shanti]

I do own my home and I don't have a mortgage and yet when I get into the fear cycle, I totally forget that.

 

 

 

I totally do that sometimes. Not so much now, but early on I did. I'll never be homeless, even if something were to happen to my mom. She's leaving this place for me, and when I can pay the bills she plans on going to a retirement home. But I would worry about how am I going to pay for the electricity and the food and water.

 

I am only going to taper off the Benzo now because I am having side effects from it. It's either that or up the dose. Even while I am indeed withdrawing every day from the Xanax apparantly, I'm not having an issue with anxiety at all. So, I'll give it a try.

[Barbarannamated]

May I ask a question? When you were both going thru divorces, if you had no place obvious to live (relative/own home/nearby friends), how would you approach that? No job, but do have disability. No idea of provisions for my elderly parents (father - 85 -still refuses to give up any info) but I know I cant wait or worry about them any longer. I fully appreciate that you had children to consider, which I don't.

Sorry to intrude on your thread, Shanti. Please delete or redirect if inappropriate here.

[xDebbiejo]

Alto I believe benzo's help with withdrawal as they relax you. I'm just a bit scared of being addicted.

 

Nikki I still have my house for six months as I'm paying the interest only but that arrangment will then finish.

My partner had to leave and get his own place as he is extremely stressed and has issues and with the army combat stress welfare. We somehow all want to be together again but I think we have lost the house -

 

Oh gosh feeliing sorry for myself again.

 

thanks for your support both xxx

[Barbarannamated]

Aw, Debbie. It is stressful, but we'll get thru this. Sometimes I feel like carrying a sign "Looking for Good Home"

 

Shanti, I just read about your daughter's tumor on pineal gland. Did you say she's lost hair? I've lost a good bit also and then snip some here and there to cover/even it out and that has left a really ugly mess. Im thinking I may need to do full on Sinead O'Connor.

How did they catch the pineal tumor? I've never heard of that but know the pineal is thought to have a great deal to do with depression. And it's very small, I believe. I hope she gets treatment soon and, yes, slap that nurse or doctor who forgot to submit paperwork!

I'm also in awe of your initiative!

[Karma]

My first pdoc diagnosed me with Bag Lady Syndrome and then sat there laughing at me . I said, "Dr. J why are you laughing?" She said, "because every time I try to imagine you as a bag lady I keep seeing you owning the bag company."

 

I didn't get it at the time, but she was telling me that I was very resourceful ... and I think that all of us who reach out for help and help one another are resourceful.

 

Love and light,

Karma

[Altostrata]

Alto I believe benzo's help with withdrawal as they relax you. I'm just a bit scared of being addicted.

....

 

Yes, that is correct, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-taper-the-antidepressant-first/

[xDebbiejo]

Thank you alto

I'm still waiting to stabilise on my 10mg seroxat 6th day now of this dose. Bit bad in mornings but if something bothers me like my daughter (18) just said she thinks she has schizophrenia as she has paranoid thoughts that her boyfriend is off with someone else. She says her heart beats really fast and goes all hot.

She was fine before she had tha hpv vaccine which I wasn't told about - oh Alto it's never ending ! And my reaction was complete panick in my chest went hot tight and tingly - I thinks anxiety has moved from my stomach to my chest

 

Sorry moaning again

 

Thanks for the link xx

[Altostrata]

Sounds like you and your daughter might practice mindful meditative breathing together. You might share a tendency to anxiety. This can help. See Non-drug techniques to cope with withdrawal symptoms

[Skyler]

Thank you alto

I'm still waiting to stabilise on my 10mg seroxat 6th day now of this dose. Bit bad in mornings but if something bothers me like my daughter (18) just said she thinks she has schizophrenia as she has paranoid thoughts that her boyfriend is off with someone else. She says her heart beats really fast and goes all hot.

Thanks for the link xx

 

Hi Deb, if your daughter has insight into jealous thoughts, she does not appear to have paranoia such as would be found in schizophrenia. Sounds like she has anxiety of some sort, lacks confidence in herself, etc? This aside, she has issues that need treatment and support. I'm sure she is glad you listen and are open to her concerns.~S

[xDebbiejo]

Yes thanks all

 

I never had anxiety before withdrawal just depression. I think the vaccine has defo had an effect on my daughter

She used to be such a confident girl did loads of sports had a GB coach. Gave it all up revising for A level exams now along with working a part- time job and going out, normal I guess. Have been doing bit of breathing meditation with her but need to do more - thanks for mentioning it !

 

Thanks all xx

[xDebbiejo]

Ooo thanks for that link Alto x

[Shanti]

I got lucky. I was offered $10,000 and $3,000 a month for a year to be someone's Oracle, then a year after that someone else hired me to do it too for a little more than half that. Then I got sick and on meds and I can't channel like I used to. Though at my other site I still offer things like Astrology Charts. So now I'm living with my mom, as luck again would have it, she moved out of my dads house and into their rental they own, and she's giving it to me. But I do have to have a more stable line of work and that's why I'm going to school next fall.

 

My daughter lost more than half her hair. You see scalp all over. She used to use hair fiber particles to cover the scalp but it got too bad for that so now she won't go anywhere without a wig or hat.

 

So far I'm doing fine on the Xanax taper. They said at BB I may have gotten lucky. I do feel a little depressed and negative thoughts popping up more than normal, but I'm practicing at visualizing the negative thoughts as a red box and I swat it out of my energy field. I try to switch my focus quickly and remind myself that it's just the withdrawals and it'll go away.

[Skyler]

My daughter lost more than half her hair. You see scalp all over. She used to use hair fiber particles to cover the scalp but it got too bad for that so now she won't go anywhere without a wig or hat.

 

So far I'm doing fine on the Xanax taper. They said at BB I may have gotten lucky. I do feel a little depressed and negative thoughts popping up more than normal, but I'm practicing at visualizing the negative thoughts as a red box and I swat it out of my energy field. I try to switch my focus quickly and remind myself that it's just the withdrawals and it'll go away.

 

Shanti, would you consider putting your benzo taper in your sig? I don't know how much of a cut you took.

 

Very sorry to hear about your daughter's hair, that sounds miserable for sure. You said it would be 3 months before you will know if the tumor can be removed?

 

Thanks whatever your response~S

[Nikki]

Debbiejo...your daughter sounds like she has anxiety and when a partner is cheating we get feelings (or instincts)about it. He may be telling her she is crazy. Happened to me with my ex-spouse. After awhile we start thinking, well, gee maybe I am crazy....

 

Shanti so glad your folks have given you a place to live. You have a plan in place to shape your future and you certainly have the strength to do it. I think what you have done to get off meds is amazing. I look to read your posts, they are quite helpful. I do hope your daughter is okay.

 

There are trends with these medications, a few years back on another support group, it was predominately paxil, effexor and zoloft. There wasn't much in the line of benzos. Then as more people have decided to taper, enter benzos. Now it Lexapro, Celexa, Lamictal, and a few others. It takes alot of guts and stamina to taper down as so many people here are doing.

 

Hugs

[Karma]

Shanti,

 

If I read your signature correctly, you made a 50% reduction in your Xanax dose ... I had good success with .0625 mg drops ... quartered .25 mg pills. You might want to make your next reduction .125 mg or .0625 mg. You should be able to reduce every 10-14 days at that without withdrawals. I would just hate to see you have a set back after making such great progress with the Paxil to Prozac switch. (Now I'll butt out )

 

Karma

[Skyler]

I got lucky. I was offered $10,000 and $3,000 a month for a year to be someone's Oracle, then a year after that someone else hired me to do it too for a little more than half that. Then I got sick and on meds and I can't channel like I used to. Though at my other site I still offer things like Astrology Charts. So now I'm living with my mom, as luck again would have it, she moved out of my dads house and into their rental they own, and she's giving it to me. But I do have to have a more stable line of work and that's why I'm going to school next fall.

 

My daughter lost more than half her hair. You see scalp all over. She used to use hair fiber particles to cover the scalp but it got too bad for that so now she won't go anywhere without a wig or hat.

 

So far I'm doing fine on the Xanax taper. They said at BB I may have gotten lucky. I do feel a little depressed and negative thoughts popping up more than normal, but I'm practicing at visualizing the negative thoughts as a red box and I swat it out of my energy field. I try to switch my focus quickly and remind myself that it's just the withdrawals and it'll go away.

 

Shanti, the same rules Alto uses to guide an antidepressant taper should be in place for Xanax, two good cuts of 10% previous dose, hold for a month, then go to 3 weeks hold, and then 2 weeks hold. You did not hit an immediate wall with Xanax, but this will not hold, you are going wayyyyyy too fast. Updose to the level that would be 10% below the dose you were taking, and follow Alto's reduction protocol. You are going to sensitize your system coming off the way you are. Please take care of yourself. Believe me, no one is that lucky with Xanax after taking it for so long. And even if you were, which you are not, steep cuts early on in the taper will guarantee you a rough taper at the lower end. I've never seen or heard of anyone getting out of jail so easy with Xanax. It's a benzo equivalent to Effexor, down right nasty.

 

~S

[Shanti]

With Benzos, the worst of the symptoms after a drop is around 3 or 4 days, and I already passed that mark. I'm really doing fine and I'm on my fifth day. I had to see what would happen, as I don't know until I try. Everyone is different, and some people do have easier time coming off the Benzos. I did feel like I was different because it never seems to affect me like it does others. For instance, I see many people say how they had to keep updosing and I never felt like doing that. I feel like I desensitized to it long ago and never updosed. I'll continue and if I have a hard time, then I will updose. After talking to the people at BB they thought it was good idea to hold like I am since I probably made it over the first hurdle. From now on I'll go smaller drops.

[Shanti]

I'm feeling a little impatient and irritable. That's the worst of it. It's not too bad. I've been sleeping okay too. Sleeping a little light, but I expected that. And today, the entire day, I had almost no back pain for the first time in a very long time. I'll take the irritability over that any day!

 

Actually, it's 7 days now. I messed up on my date.

[Skyler]

I'm feeling a little impatient and irritable. That's the worst of it. It's not too bad. I've been sleeping okay too. Sleeping a little light, but I expected that. And today, the entire day, I had almost no back pain for the first time in a very long time. I'll take the irritability over that any day!

 

Actually, it's 7 days now. I messed up on my date.

 

Shanti, it's no easier coming off benzos than ADs.. harder in some respects. There is lag time, and it will catch up with you. I never had to to take more because I was sensitized in the way you describe either. I've read too many horror stories, and skated over withdrawal symptoms by only one shallow cut all down a 2 year taper long taper. I'm not sure who you talked to at BB, but check in with one of the admins there? You are not being wise, and it will slam you.. hard. Generalize everything you know about how to withdraw from ADs, and then some, as it is more difficult to up dose or reinstate if you need to, not to mention you are doing an AD taper and there is cross over for withdrawal symptoms. Very dicy, hairy.

 

I will say no more.. ~S

[Skyler]

Hi Shanti, I just read almost your entire thread. Depending on how long you were on .5 mgs total of Xanax as opposed to the .25 mgs you took at night (if .25mgs of the xanax was PRN), it's possible you can reduce to .25 mgs.. Problem is, you are tapering two drugs at once and can get a bleed thru of withdrawal symptoms from one drug to the other. I just ran into a big problem trying to come down on Lyrica precipitously and now have had to hold a benzo taper at 1 mg. of diazepam. Very frustrating, not to mention I'm still battling tinnitus. You don't want to risk complicating the Prozac taper, especially given the problems you had with Paxil.~S

[Shanti]

You are not being wise, and it will slam you.. hard.

 

 

Haha. You were right. It did hit me hard last night when I went to bed and I had to get up and up my dose. I was having body vibration, rushes and bad psychosis, mostly voices shouting at me. Upping my dose eliminated that and then I slept good. So I will go ahead and try my .5 dose split in half, morning and night, and see if it gets rid of the back pain by eliminating a daily withdrawal that came from only taking my Xanax at night. If it does, then I'll continue with that dose and finish the Prozac taper. If it doesn't get rid of the back pain, then I'll start tapering the Xanax by 10% and postpone the Prozac taper.

 

Thank you for being outspoken about this Schuyler! I can get anxious to GET THIS OVER THIS. I just want my life back. I know there's no way I can get into the medical field with these meds in my system. But I have until next spring to do this, and that should be just about right.

[Skyler]

 

You are not being wise, and it will slam you.. hard.

 

 

Haha. You were right. It did hit me hard last night when I went to bed and I had to get up and up my dose. I was having body vibration, rushes and bad psychosis, mostly voices shouting at me. Upping my dose eliminated that and then I slept good. So I will go ahead and try my .5 dose split in half, morning and night, and see if it gets rid of the back pain by eliminating a daily withdrawal that came from only taking my Xanax at night. If it does, then I'll continue with that dose and finish the Prozac taper. If it doesn't get rid of the back pain, then I'll start tapering the Xanax by 10% and postpone the Prozac taper.

Sounds like a judicious plan!

 

Thank you for being outspoken about this Schuyler! I can get anxious to GET THIS OVER THIS. I just want my life back. I know there's no way I can get into the medical field with these meds in my system. But I have until next spring to do this, and that should be just about right.

 

I was not comfortable being so, but you were just heading for a brick wall soooo fast, and given everything you have been thru do NOT want to amp up your system further. Hope you got some quality sleep and feel refreshed.~S

[Altostrata]

I agree with Karma and Schuyler, please be cautious with your benzo withdrawal, Shanti. Don't take any chances with the balance you've achieved.

[Shanti]

I feel much better. I took .25 this morning and I'll take another .25 before bed. My back is barely hurting, so I think this is how I'll do it. I want to thank you all for being honest with your thoughts on this. I appreciate it. I do get over confident about these things.

[Rhiannon]

Shanti, I posted over at BB on your intro thread.

 

I agree 100% with what Schuyler has already said, except maybe even more so.

 

The other thing I want to say is what I said over on the BB thread: You can't experiment with benzos. It's not safe to learn the hard way. Benzo withdrawal is not as forgiving as AD withdrawal. If you screw up, you can't necessarily reinstate and restabilize and start over. Benzos don't work that way. Reinstatement is a crapshoot. Many people cut too much, reinstate, yet their withdrawal symptoms only improve slightly and they never stabilize. They continue to suffer all the way down and then for months to years afterward.

 

About 40% of people who try reinstatement after a CT or too-fast taper on benzos, fail to stabilize on reinstatement. (Although usually a reinstatement within the first couple of weeks works better than further out. And people can usually get away with one or two quick reinstatements. Your odds now, if you just hold everything right now and don't cut or reduce or change anything for three or four weeks, are good.)

 

Shanti sweetie, benzos are a whole new ball game. You thought Paxil withdrawal was bad?!

 

Please believe me. I know benzos way better than I know ADs.

 

Don't screw around with Xanax. Don't do crazy things. I know your story and your history, I'm not just saying this out of the blue. I have a pretty good idea of what you can expect and what will and won't work for you. Given your history and your current situation, you need to be VERY conservative with your Xanax taper, especially for the first few months, until you see how your body is going to deal with it.

 

Take your time and learn about this monster you're wrestling before you jump into the ring. Xanax is powerful and nasty stuff. 0.5 mg of Xanax is equivalent to 10 mg of Valium. Xanax is very potent stuff. You can't play around with it. You can definitely taper it, you can definitely get off of it, but you have to respect its power and be very conservative, especially while you're first tapering and learning how your body is going to react.

 

And as you've learned, the whole "first four days" or "first seven days" business is not something you can go on. Benzos have a lag time and they also have really bumpy recovery; you can feel better for a while and then get hit hard again.

 

It appears to me that the people who do best on benzo tapers are those who microtaper--very small cuts--and take intermittent longer holds to allow the healing to catch up.

 

Please be wise about this, you've already been through so much!

[Rhiannon]

As far as the interdose withdrawal, splitting into twice a day is good but if you can manage to make it four times a day that's even better. Once you start tapering, when that day comes, multiple dosing becomes more important.

[Shanti]

That was close! Thank you Rhi! I just responded to your post at BB. Why didn't they tell me what you just told me? I'm very lucky that I didn't get stuck. I thought I was actually being safe as my doctor told me I was on such a low dose that I could safely just stop taking it at .5. I should know better, I know.

[Rhiannon]

That was close! Thank you Rhi! I just responded to your post at BB. Why didn't they tell me what you just told me? I'm very lucky that I didn't get stuck. I thought I was actually being safe as my doctor told me I was on such a low dose that I could safely just stop taking it at .5. I should know better, I know.

 

Yeah, you can't really listen to doctors when it comes to med withdrawal. There are a few who have a clue or two but the only one I've ever met in all my years on Xanax was one nurse practitioner who knew how bad it was. Most of them are clueless.

 

You gotta be careful what advice you get on BB. It's a crazy and crowded city right now full of people who don't really have a lot of experience helping other people through withdrawal. The mods are good but they're overstretched. Also, some people DO get off benzos easily, but not people with histories like yours. So people tend to say, "oh well maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones."

 

Like I say, most of the folks who post over there don't have a great deal of knowledge or experience. They haven't been at it long enough to see the patterns, or they just don't have pattern-seeing brains. It's a good place to get hand-holding and sympathy but you have to be careful who you get your actual information from. It's very different from this forum in that way (here the info and advice is pretty solid and if someone says something questionable it's usually caught fairly quickly.)

 

So now, if I were you, I'd take time to stabilize. See if you can get the 0.25 mg tablets and break them into four doses a day spaced as evenly as you can (if you sleep a straight eight hours through the night you'll need to stretch that one out a bit.) Learn about liquid tapering and gather the equipment you'll need for that (Xanax is too potent to dry cut).

 

We can talk more about the details once you're ready. I wouldn't start for a while yet if I were you. If you want to try to taper this while you're still tapering another med you'll need to slow down the other med and take both tapers very slowly in very tiny cuts.

[Skyler]

Great post Rhi.. BB is a little like the Wild West these days. Not enough peeps to give really informed feedback, so it's buyer beware.

 

Guess one way to look at the difference between a Benzo and AD taper.. if you are having withdrawal symptoms, coping is just as difficult no matter what the psychotropic. It's just easier to get into that state on benzos than ADs, anticonvulsantss. Up dosing is more often unforgiving, and if you take one step out of line, like I unknowingly did with Lyrica, it does not take very long to trigger off new or added withdrawal symptoms. (I'm not familiar with neuroleptics, though they may well be as tough as benzos to taper).

 

Ahem, heard enough for now?

[Shanti]

Thank you both for that important advice. I'm going to go ahead and stay at the .5, split it, and go ahead and finish the Prozac taper. That was my original plan, but the back pain threw me. The back pain is better now that I'm taking the Xanax twice a day. I'll start splitting it more.