Shanti: tapering off Paxil

[Shanti]

I'm not quite sure what to do with my taper from here on out. I'm also not sure where I should be posting this question, so if you want to move it, go ahead.

 

My Prozac taper has been very easy. Only a couple of drawbacks, usually from other things that set off w/d symptoms. Other than that, it's been very hard restraining myself from just getting it done with quick. As you can see, I tend to be a bit impatient. But since it's going so easy, I'm not sure what I should do. Should I just keep going by reducing 2 mg. every 4 weeks til I'm done? (I'm at 8 mg. now), or should I go faster, or do smaller doses now that I'm getting to a low dose? Any thoughts? I so want to get this over with. I'm really wishing I could be done with all my tapers before school starts in Fall. I don't think that will be possible though. Not with the Xanax I'm afraid I'm going to be tapering Xanax while going to school.

[Altostrata]

If you feel you're stabilized from the last Prozac decrease AND the benzo changes, you could try reducing 2mg every 3 weeks. If that goes well, every 2 weeks. I'm not sure I'd go faster than that, given the problems you had with Paxil.

[Shanti]

That feels right to me Alto. I'll try it that way. I won't go faster than 2 weeks. I've done so good so far since the switch, I don't want to mess it all up.

[Karma]

Shanti

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!! I see by your signature that you are completely off of Prozac. Please pop in and tell us how you are doing.

 

 

Karma

[Rhiannon]

WOW way to go Shanti! :-)

[Shanti]

Thanks guys! I'm doing pretty good and started school. I'm taking Medical Office Administration. I have to do something in case my disability doesn't come through and thought it'd be good to get into something different. I can concentrate better and have only little depression. I still use Homeopathy to help with occasional anxiety and depression. But it is not near as much as it was before a/d. It's manageable. Thank you for stopping by!

[Barbarannamated]

So good to hear from you, Shanti. You're a very special person. You sound good.

 

Hugs!

B

[areyouthere]

Shanti,

 

You're an inspiration !!! Congrats on the taper .

 

I have noticed that some who are in the throws of WD get tunnel vision and unless they have been lurking ( as I have been) and come to trust in the wisdom of the advice here, they simply CAN"T HEAR IT!! You are a good role model for trusting and listening to the folks on this forum.

 

This is very helpful for those of us who are just beginning our journey .

 

Thanks for keeping such a clear signature. I find that that is very useful too.

 

Enjoy school. Going to school were some of my best years!!

 

Take Care and continue to check in. You are helping more people than you may think!

[tezza]

Hi Shanti,

 

I'm very happy to know you made it off ADs and doing better! You are an inspiration.

 

HUGS AND LOVE,

 

Tezza

[Nikki]

Wow you did it Treat yourself to something nice, you deserve it...

 

Hugs

[Barbarannamated]

Shanti,

 

I dont recall (and not finding) if you ever had MRI to rule out MS. Just wondering.

 

Barb

[Shanti]

Yes, I did and there are no lesions. I have no idea what the deal is, but the doctor said it's possible to have MS without lesions showing up. Apparently 10% have to have a clinical diagnosis. The closest thing to a diagnosis is "dilapidated degenerative disease of the CNS". It's the same with my dad, so whatever it is, is hereditary. I have no means to see a Neurologist for a clinical diagnosis so I just accept not knowing for sure what it is. Things have become even much more complicated with the withdrawal syndrome. Now I don't know what is a symptom of the condition I had before this, or what is w/d symptom. I can't gauge the progress of the original condition. I tried to trim a few more grape vines this morning and suffered the intentional tremors again. Withdrawal or the original CNS illness? I have no idea.

 

I just had another MRI for my Thoracic spine two days ago. I'm having a lot of trouble keeping a straight posture with my back. It naturally wants to lean one side or the other. After the results to make sure i don't have a tumor in my spine, they'll do cortisol shots there.

[Skyler]

I tried to trim a few more grape vines this morning and suffered the intentional tremors again. Withdrawal or the original CNS illness? I have no idea.

 

I just had another MRI for my Thoracic spine two days ago. I'm having a lot of trouble keeping a straight posture with my back. It naturally wants to lean one side or the other. After the results to make sure i don't have a tumor in my spine, they'll do cortisol shots there.

 

Shanti, is there a clinic you can use that goes by income that is accessible to you. I don't recall seeing that intentional tremors are a withdrawal symptom. Also, if you do have MS, there is treatment available.. admittedly drugs, but this is one treatment that's really beneficial.

[Shanti]

I tried to trim a few more grape vines this morning and suffered the intentional tremors again. Withdrawal or the original CNS illness? I have no idea.

 

I just had another MRI for my Thoracic spine two days ago. I'm having a lot of trouble keeping a straight posture with my back. It naturally wants to lean one side or the other. After the results to make sure i don't have a tumor in my spine, they'll do cortisol shots there.

 

Shanti, is there a clinic you can use that goes by income that is accessible to you. I don't recall seeing that intentional tremors are a withdrawal symptom. Also, if you do have MS, there is treatment available.. admittedly drugs, but this is one treatment that's really beneficial.

 

The fact that there is treatment for MS that will help prevent degeneration is the part that infuriates me that I can't get a diagnosis. I have a doctor and access to medical care, I just don't have access to a Neurologist, which would be the only way for me to get a real diagnosis. My doctor has tried to find me a Neurologist that will accept my Medi-cal. I'm going to ask to get a reference to San Fransisco, as I'm already going to have to make trips there for my daughters medical condition.

[Shanti]

I just want to add that I'm am fairly certain that I have MS. There is a symptom that is pretty confined to MS, called Lhermittes Sign that I had in my 20's. (I did see a Neurologist at that time and that was the diagnosis) Whenever I would put my head forward it would cause a jolt of electric shock down my spine. It went away after about 6 months. That is very indicative of MS. After that, I was instructed by the Neurologist to "wait and see". For the symptoms to go away and then return at about the age of 40. Typical. But now the symptoms are widespread, and when looking at all the symptoms of MS, I match at least 90%

[Skyler]

I just want to add that I'm am fairly certain that I have MS. There is a symptom that is pretty confined to MS, called Lhermittes Sign that I had in my 20's. (I did see a Neurologist at that time and that was the diagnosis) Whenever I would put my head forward it would cause a jolt of electric shock down my spine. It went away after about 6 months. That is very indicative of MS. After that, I was instructed by the Neurologist to "wait and see". For the symptoms to go away and then return at about the age of 40. Typical. But now the symptoms are widespread, and when looking at all the symptoms of MS, I match at least 90%

 

The fact that there is treatment for MS that will help prevent degeneration is the part that infuriates me that I can't get a diagnosis. I have a doctor and access to medical care, I just don't have access to a Neurologist, which would be the only way for me to get a real diagnosis. My doctor has tried to find me a Neurologist that will accept my Medi-cal. I'm going to ask to get a reference to San Fransisco, as I'm already going to have to make trips there for my daughters medical condition.

 

Right.. there should be teaching hospitals there that accept Medi-cal even if you can't find someone in a private practice. The situation is infuriating to say the least, so much is being stripped away. You need to put this on the front burner mon ami.

[Shanti]

THird post but I have to vent. I am incredibly frustrated. I have told three doctors that I had Lhermitte's sign. I've had 3 MRI's total and none of them were of my Cervical spine. Yet, the very fact that I had Lhermitte's sign should point to MS lesions in my Cervical Spine. I don't understand why they don't listen!! Why they check everywhere but where it makes sense. I have told them! The only one that gets it is my Chiropractor. She said that by all indications of my symptoms, I have MS with lesions in my Cervical Spine. And she didn't even know about the prior Lhermitte's when she had said that. She gets it. But of course my doctors won't listen to my Chiropractor. The disease is going to progress due to their ignorance.

[Barbarannamated]

The closest thing to a diagnosis is "dilapidated degenerative disease of the CNS".

 

I'm afraid to ask... did a doctor actually use that terminology?? Do you have a copy of your MRI?

 

I am learning a bit about MRIs due to findings on mine recently and that of a friend. I am gathering that some degeneration of the brain is expected with age. In my case (and 50 yo friend), it showed as "white matter hyperintensities" indicating holes in the white matter or "insulation of nerves of brain", as my endocrinologist referred to it. This may be the glia or myelin sheath. I'm not certain of that!

 

I wonder if your doctor was referring to same. My doc specifically said mine is not showing an MS pattern, so it seems we may be discussing similar structures. Mine is chronic and degeneratice/progressive, although I don't know how advanced it is for my age. My clinical symptoms are problematic and that is our concern - "altered"/delirium, decreased cognition, low mood, apathy.

 

What explanation did your doc give for your dilapidating CNS? I cannot believe those words were spoken! Is there a treatment or way to slow?

 

Do you gave autoimmune disease or antibodies? MS is autoimmune. The NeuroImmunology Department at UCSF is one of the few places researching autoimmune white matter disease. I will get the link for you.

 

I agree completely with all being said. You need to know more. Yes, traditional western medicine is going to be drug based, but if it is autoimmunity (an overactive immune system), the approach is completely different than a healthy or UNDERactive immune system. In autoimmunity IF THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE, suppressing the immune system and inflammation are key, not boosting it as we generally lean toward.

 

This sounds like degenerative joint disease in theory. It is expected to happen in everyone but some people have more advanced degeneration at younger age due to injury, genetics, lifestyle, etc. Not unlike osteoporosis.

 

And then it is complicated by the drugs..

 

Just call me...Brittle Brain Barb

[Shanti]

Sorry, I was not very clear about that Bar. It was my dad's neurologist that said that word "dilapidated". What exactly does it mean that is surprising?

[Shanti]

You need to put this on the front burner mon ami.

 

I agree. But the issue is that I'm burning bridges with doctors. Exasperating them. Especially with the added issue with so called mental illness and now withdrawal syndrome. However, I'm going to push it more with my next doctor visit, even though I'm also going to talk to him about switching from Xanax to Valium. I don't feel heard or believed. I'm tired.

[Skyler]

 

You need to put this on the front burner mon ami.

 

I agree. But the issue is that I'm burning bridges with doctors. Exasperating them. Especially with the added issue with so called mental illness and now withdrawal syndrome. However, I'm going to push it more with my next doctor visit, even though I'm also going to talk to him about switching from Xanax to Valium. I don't feel heard or believed. I'm tired.

 

But all your doc needs to do for this is refer you to a neuro? That should not be intensive?? Gosh.. to need care and feel like you need to ask for a hand out is the PITS! Maybe get a name or two, along with a fax, and just ask him to have his receptionist call. That should make it pretty easy?

[Shanti]

Yeah, I'll ask him. He is my new doc, and he's focused on treating my symptoms (pain) and I'm grateful for that. I'll ask him to refer me. There is an issue when you've been diagnosed with mental problems that clouds their judgment and they think it's all in your head. This was never more clear to me than when I had to have emergency surgery for the abscess on my colon. It took 3 ambulance rides to the emergency room before they saw the problem. Three times I heard something like "did you take your Xanax? you do this you know, you panic, blah blah blah". This was my first ride in an ambulance in my life, and it had been many many years since i've been to ER for anything. It was horrible, trying to convince them that I was in excruciating pain and horribly sick. My mom was freaking out yelling at them that I'm sick, and they accused me of my panic disorder making my mom worry. Then they find that I have a huge abscess and leaking into my abdomen. I would've died! I don't know how they couldn't see how friggin sick I was and tried to put it off as mental illness. I did complain about the nurses that did that to me after it was over.

[Barbarannamated]

Sorry, I was not very clear about that Bar. It was my dad's neurologist that said that word "dilapidated". What exactly does it mean that is surprising?

 

It is slightly more understandable in a previous generation. It seems like a very crude way of saying the CNS/brain is breaking down and offering no reason or further explanation. While im not fond of western medicine, there are further diagnostic tools available now. Better MRIs. I just read of a 7 Tesla! I had a 3 Tesla and that is thought to be advanced.

 

Regarding "mental illness" and withdrawal ... I agree with all you said and have experienced it myself. My advice is to not mention your history at this point. They should be evaluating you based on your current NEUROLOGICAL symptoms and nothing more. I have learned quickly to say nothing of previous psych diagnoses or treatments and especially not withdrawal up front. Let them start from scratch and evaluate you. Let them gather their findings and present their diagnosis and proposed treatment. After their cards are on the table, so to speak, you can evaluate their findings and treatment approach based on your own knowledge. I contacted the head of brain treatment center at Cleveland Clinic and told him my history, including that I had been treated by psychiatry for years. He refused to see me and I have a HUNCH it was because I was treated by psychiatry. He said my case is "too complex" and offered no reference or direction for me. I said only that I'd been treated unsuccessfully by psychiatry, nothing about withdrawal or my feelings about it.

 

There is a saying that once psychiatric disorders are imageable or measureable (scans or labs), they become Neurology (ie. "real medicine"). No doctor wants to take on another doctor's lawsuit.

 

You deserve far better treatment, Shanti. You are not your diagnoses. You have access to a wealth of information and knowledge that they don't (or dont believe, most likely). Unfortunately, we have to hold back some information until they put their cards on the table. Im NOT suggesting agreeing to treatment without fully disclosing and discussing. However, when trying to get to a diagnosis, it is vitally important to not be pigeonholed as a psych patient.

 

I suspect others will disagree with me, but with my long history with both pain and "depression" that was misdiagnose for 15+ years, I realize I have to present my case carefully.

 

You have many resources in San Francisco. I realize you are limited with insurance. I, personally, would not be opposed to entering a neurologic IMAGING study (as opposed to drug treatment). It might be a way to get good scans. Here is just one resource:

 

http://neurology.stanford.edu/neuroimmunology/

 

You should be able to get a DVD copy of your MRI and have someone at UCSF look at it before you go. I havent done this, but know that it IS done and might reduce some stress about going. However, even if they don't see obvious lesions or damage, please continue to pursue an answer. A good doctor should treat the patient and not rely only on the scan or labwork.

[compsports]

Totally agree with every thing you said Barb.

 

After the horrible treatment I received from my first sleep doctor due to mentioning my psych med history, I learned my lesson big time.

 

Shanti, forgive me as I haven't read your posts. But you might be interested in this site by a regular doctor who greatly improved her MS via diet and another treatment whose name escapes me.

 

http://www.terrywahls.com/

 

Hang in there.

 

CS

 

 

Sorry, I was not very clear about that Bar. It was my dad's neurologist that said that word "dilapidated". What exactly does it mean that is surprising?

 

It is slightly more understandable in a previous generation. It seems like a very crude way of saying the CNS/brain is breaking down and offering no reason or further explanation. While im not fond of western medicine, there are further diagnostic tools available now. Better MRIs. I just read of a 7 Tesla! I had a 3 Tesla and that is thought to be advanced.

 

Regarding "mental illness" and withdrawal ... I agree with all you said and have experienced it myself. My advice is to not mention your history at this point. They should be evaluating you based on your current NEUROLOGICAL symptoms and nothing more. I have learned quickly to say nothing of previous psych diagnoses or treatments and especially not withdrawal up front. Let them start from scratch and evaluate you. Let them gather their findings and present their diagnosis and proposed treatment. After their cards are on the table, so to speak, you can evaluate their findings and treatment approach based on your own knowledge. I contacted the head of brain treatment center at Cleveland Clinic and told him my history, including that I had been treated by psychiatry for years. He refused to see me and I have a HUNCH it was because I was treated by psychiatry. He said my case is "too complex" and offered no reference or direction for me. I said only that I'd been treated unsuccessfully by psychiatry, nothing about withdrawal or my feelings about it.

 

There is a saying that once psychiatric disorders are imageable or measureable (scans or labs), they become Neurology (ie. "real medicine"). No doctor wants to take on another doctor's lawsuit.

 

You deserve far better treatment, Shanti. You are not your diagnoses. You have access to a wealth of information and knowledge that they don't (or dont believe, most likely). Unfortunately, we have to hold back some information until they put their cards on the table. Im NOT suggesting agreeing to treatment without fully disclosing and discussing. However, when trying to get to a diagnosis, it is vitally important to not be pigeonholed as a psych patient.

 

I suspect others will disagree with me, but with my long history with both pain and "depression" that was misdiagnose for 15+ years, I realize I have to present my case carefully.

 

resourcesmany resources in San Francisco. I realuze you are limited with insurance. I, personally, would not be opposed to entering an neurologic IMAGING study (as opposed to drug treatment). It might be a way to get good scans. Here is just one resource:

 

http://neurology.stanford.edu/neuroimmunology/

 

[Shanti]

Very wise and I couldn't agree with you both more. Are you saying then that when the doctors ask for what meds I take, that I should leave out the Xanax? Because the whole emergency room situation, I never mentioned a mental condition. They just assumed I had one because I did admit to taking Xanax when they asked about my medications. Hmm. So maybe when I do get to go to a Neurologist, I simply won't mention the Xanax until after he gets to a point where he will prescribe any treatment, as that would be the only time he'd need to know to avoid drug interactions. Compsports, thank you for that link. I am definitely open to natural healing.

 

It is hard for me to stay on top of this, even with how important it is. The reason is that I'm simply tired of dealing with it and I feel defeated, so my mind is starting to suppress and deny it all. Escape from it.

 

That is very good advice in how to go about this. I'm so glad I mentioned it today so I could hear that. I'll start from scratch and be sure to leave out the mental health stuff.

[Aria]

I have run into biased doctors after there was any mention of me being treated by a psychiatrist. I too had a sleep doctor dismiss me so rudely while demanding I return to seeing my former psychiatrist. Sometimes it's best not to mention certain medical history to be able to get a referral and/or diagnosis untarnished by psychiatry. I had a bit of trouble again when I was experiencing severe problems with balance, walking and hand use. I planned ahead and made sure any new doctors got copies of my medical records with all psych connections deleted. There some enlightened doctors out there and 99.99% of them are not psychiatrists.

[Shanti]

Thank you all for your support. It's so helpful.

 

I'm doing good except for the two time I tried to reduce my Xanax. I'm going to try again soon with the liquid titrate. It's scary to me, not to have anything to fall back on. Even while I was withdrawing from the Paxil and Prozac, I always had the Xanax to help me. Now there will be nothing. I'll start in a week or two. It does take some time to recover from a failed taper. Like Rhi said, the benzos are less forgiving when you mess up, and try to reinstate.

[Barbarannamated]

Take good care of you, Shanti. You've been through alot in recent months with Paxil --> Prozac.

 

Love you!

 

B

[Shanti]

Thanks Bar, I will. Much love to you too

[Rhiannon]

 

Sorry, I was not very clear about that Bar. It was my dad's neurologist that said that word "dilapidated". What exactly does it mean that is surprising?

 

Regarding "mental illness" and withdrawal ... I agree with all you said and have experienced it myself. My advice is to not mention your history at this point.

 

It's sad that we have to say this, but it's true.

 

I've heard a number of similar stories to yours about the abscess, Shanti.

 

I pretty much always heavily edit my medical history and medications list according to the situation. Unfortunately these days with all the electronic records they have access to everything. I swear, once I'm done with these drugs it's going to take an army to drag me in to see a doctor again, now that I've learned how ignorant and gullible they are.

 

That's just too much power in the hands of people who have been brainwashed to believe they know more than they do, more than anyone does, while actually only knowing what the profit-oriented pharmaceutical companies and medical equipment companies have spoon-fed them.

 

(And for anyone who thinks I'm just being another Internet nut, read this:

http://now.tufts.edu/articles/man-who-did-math

 

and of course Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.)

[Shanti]

That's it Rhi. They are brainwashed to believe they know more than they do. So they have these inflated egos that prevent them from owning up to the fact that they don't. That they could be wrong or that they don't know something. I think that is exactly why so many people get diagnosed with anxiety. It's like the "go to" diagnoses for "I have no friggin clue". Better than having to be humble and admit they don't know everything. At least that seems to be what they think. Well, the truth is coming out. All this bs with Big Pharma and the farce is being exposed. I can only hope things will change in my lifetime.

[Shanti]

I think I'm experiencing that relapse of symptoms. I've been off Paxil for about 9 months, and off Prozac for about 2 1/2 months. At first I thought it was due to the Xanax taper attempt, but that was short lived and it went away. These symptoms are getting worse. The body zaps and lack of concentration. I've had to take the last week off of my studies. I was getting 100% scores on tests but my last class I struggled in reading and then scored 82%. It was frustrating trying to read the material.

 

When I have a bad night of body zaps, I feel like I have the flu the next day. Achy and yucky. Does anyone else notice this?

 

I am anxious to start my Xanax taper but I'm having to put it off because of this. I'm wondering if anyone knows how long the relapse event usually lasts?

[Barbarannamated]

Shanti,

 

I recall reading of several people who had a wave at about 9-11 months post last dose. I dont know if many are still here, but perhaps Alto, Rhi or Nadia might be able to contribute. I haven't noticed a pattern except that the first several months were characterized by anxiety ("high gear") and then switched to very low gear with low energy, lack of emotion, etc.

[Altostrata]

My guess is the Xanax taper attempt destabilized you, Shanti. Don't make any more medication changes for a while.

[Shanti]

Okay. I'll wait on the Xanax. It's been so hard for me to have patience and my lack of patience keeps biting me in the a**. In the meantime I'll keep refilling my Xanax and get a good stock up of it. I don't know why I have this fear that something is going to happen to close all pharmacies all over the world for an indefinite time. It's an irrational fear. But it's there. It's the main reason I feel in a hurry to stop being dependent on it.

 

I'm not having anxiety or depression though, thank God. But I am getting bouts of the neo-anger. Little things setting me off. If my internet takes too long to load a page, I have an overwhelming urge to throw my laptop against the wall. This is so unlike me. And I didn't have neo-anger at all with my original w/d.

[Barbarannamated]

Okay. I'll wait on the Xanax. It's been so hard for me to have patience and my lack of patience keeps biting me in the a**. In the meantime I'll keep refilling my Xanax and get a good stock up of it. I don't know why I have this fear that something is going to happen to close all pharmacies all over the world for an indefinite time. It's an irrational fear. But it's there. It's the main reason I feel in a hurry to stop being dependent on it.

 

I'm not having anxiety or depression though, thank God. But I am getting bouts of the neo-anger. Little things setting me off. If my internet takes too long to load a page, I have an overwhelming urge to throw my laptop against the wall. This is so unlike me. And I didn't have neo-anger at all with my original w/d.

 

Shanti,

 

Sometime you say things that hit home with me and I think "I can't believe someone else thinks that!" The first time was with the Bag Lady Syndrome (NOT psychosis, btw).

 

Your statement about all pharmacies closing down... yes, me too! My version is some natural disaster. I dont worry about food, water, money. But DO panic about DRUGS! I'm not a hoarder by any stretch...quite the opposite. A minimalist of sorts. Do you think this is related to the Bag Lady Syndrome in any way?

 

I get very nervous because scripts are now so regulated...can't refill a 30 day script sooner than 28 days, even if going out of town. Very nerve racking. GRRR}}}}

 

Your neo-anger...is that different than neuro-anger (because both make sense). I also have overwhelming urges to throw objects. Not hit objects, not use objects to hit other objects, but a distinct urge to THROW. In early w/d, I did throw my Droid mobile and it collided with sliding glass door. Both were fatalities. It reminds me of when I threw a ham sandwich at my mother (story in Toxic Family thread). Anyway, when you said you had urge to throw laptop, I had to jump in. Do they make pitching cages along with batting cages??