DaveWales Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Hi, I just wanted to share my experience of this drug and what I am going through. I was put on seroxat at 18 due to messing with recreational drugs. I was fine on 20mg for the next 17 years living life to the max!!! However, due to the birth of my son i wanted to be drug free, and had not had any symptoms for 12 years! I went to the doctor and she said to come off it over a few weeks and I'd be fine. This was not the case, after 7 weeks post taper and about 3 weeks off totally I had a total nervous breakdown. Dr put me back on 20mg, this was 4 months ago. Since then my nervous system is in complete meltdown, im suffering RLS, hand tremmors, depression, anxiety. The Doc suggests trying higher dose of Paroxetine and / or Mirtazipine. Has anyone experienced this, what did you do? Word of advice do your own research and read Shipko, and Healys work on SSRI discontnuation syndrome before you decide to come off it, especially if you have been on it for many years! Don't make my mistake and just trust your Dr! Edited January 20, 2017 by scallywag added paragraph breaks and tags Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted January 20, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 20, 2017 DaveWales -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA) Thank you for posting a medication history in your signature. Is paroxetine the only drug -- prescription, over-the-counter, or street drugs -- you take for any reason? It's regrettable that you are not alone in reaction to stopping Seroxat/Paxil (paroxetine): Many people have dealt with a similar situation caused by doctors who are "mis-undereducated" or who are almost religious in their belief that there is no difficulty for anyone coming off these medications.What is withdrawal syndrome.You'll find coping tips for symptoms in the Symptoms forum. Here's a post that provides links to topics on many common symptoms:Important topics about symptoms including sleep problems.The RLS and tremors are symptoms of stimulation; it's unlikely that an increased dose of paroxetine will improve them. Before considering mirtazapine, please run a drug interactions report on mirtazapine and paroxetine. Copy and paste it here in a new post.Drugs-dot-com Drugs Interactions Checker. Many people in withdrawal find it helpful to supplement Omega 3 fish oil and magnesium. Start with one at a low dose and then work your way up. Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil). Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker. For reference purposes:Why taper by 10% of my dosage?.Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
DaveWales Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Hi, I am after some advice about getting off the 20mg of Seroxat I am currently on. My history is i have been on it for 17 years at this does and only this med. No poblems, no residual symptoms. I followed a doctors recommended 6 week taper approx 12 months ago. This resulted in the start of my withdrawal problems. I was advised by the same doc to go back on the drug at 40mg completely off for a couple of weeks. Since then I have been, and am still in, the hell of withdrawal. As far as symptoms go; most of my physical ones (tremors, tinnitus, erratic hb, akathasia, etc) have gone or are much less than they were. I still suffer high cognitive anxiety, OCD thoughts, a feeling of not being myself etc. Tried to cut it again a few months ago and using the pill form I cut by eye what i think was about 18mg for 6 weeks, and down to about 15mg for a further 6 weeks. By the end of this i was basically semi psychotic, suffering paranoia. Reinstatement at 20mg has really helped this and I'd say it basically gone away again. I think the suicidal thoughts have been made worse by up-dosing. I also suffered pins and needles, burning skin, erratic heartbeats (again), but these are basically gone now. I have had an appointment with Dr Healy (luckily he's in my NHS team) and he suggests swapping to the liquid form and trying to taper again. Basically, i want to know are there any risk associated with just swapping to the liquid form from the tablets. I was thinking of a gradual cross over maybe 15mg tablet and 5mg liquid then 10/10 and 5/15 then be on 20mg pure liquid. Shall I wait to do this, or just get on with it. So I can start a very gradual micro taper of the damn stuff. Any thoughts gratefully appreciated ? Edited June 24, 2017 by scallywag paragraph formatting Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted June 24, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 24, 2017 Dave - I'll be moving your question to your introduction topic, DaveWales: Paroxetine withdrawal and discontinuation syndrome. We ask that members post questions about their situation in their introduction+update topic so that all information is in one place. When you reply in that topic, you can request to be notified of replies the same way that you set it up for this topic. Here is our discussion about liquid tapering: Making a liquid from a tablet or capsules . Probably on the first page of that topic, we suggest gradually switching to liquid, making changes monthly or bi-weekly with no dose changes: tablet ¾ dose, liquid ¼ dose tablet ½ dose, liquid ½ dose tablet ¼ dose, liquid ¾ dose all liquid This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
DaveB Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 18 hours ago, DaveWales said: This resulted in the start of my withdrawal problems. I was advised by the same doc to go back on the drug at 40mg completely off for a couple of weeks. So did you go back on 40mgs or your original 20mgs? I am going through something similar after 8 years on Zoloft. Are you now doing better on the 20mgs? I would say, if you are still struggling, I would wait until you are stabilized (ie, feel like you did for the 17 years you felt good) before attempting another taper. If that is the case, I would see no issue starting the change to liquid, if not I would wait for your CNS to stabilize further before continuing to mess with things. 2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016. January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro. March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off. June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs October 1st - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018) November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted June 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2017 Hi Dave-- welcome to SA I'm so glad you found up. I'm very sorry to hear about what you're going through, I've got a real good idea how you feel. A little more information would be helpful, would you please give a more detailed time line of what happened from your first reinstatement and the dry cutting by eye. It would be really helpful in sorting things out. There should be no problem with cross tapering between the tablets and the liquid. We do recommend that it be treated as a dose change event and once the cross taper is complete to hold for six weeks or so to let things shake out and stabilize. Then you can start a slow careful taper. Paxil can be a tricky drug to taper and the urge to go fast needs to be controlled at all times. With your history of the failed fast taper and reinstatement and second fast taper your body could be sensitized to future changes making it more imperative that you take things slow. Let's get you crossed over to the liquid first, then we can help work out details for a safe taper. This whole process is going to take some time but it will be well worth it. Brassmonkey 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
DaveWales Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Utah49er said: So did you....... Hi thanks, yeah its a real pain in the ass. Esp as i had just had my first child, and wanted to get of this Shi*e. But here we are, and its terrible. Basically after the few weeks off completely and unable to get a doc appointment for a while I put myself back on 20mg for damage limitation! I got a docs appointment a couple of weeks later and the clueless doc put upped me to 40mg. Something in me didn't like the idea of this, so i gradually reduced to 30mg, and back to 20. then carried on down to 15 and i didn't tolerate that very well, so gradually upped to 20mg again. where i am now, approx 12 months after starting my initial taper (aka ruthless removal of drug i was hooked on!) Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
DaveWales Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 53 minutes ago, brassmonkey said: Hi Dave-- welcome to SA I'm so glad you found up....... Brassmonkey Hi Brassmonkey, thanks so much for you kind and reassuring words. It's such a lonely place isnt it! The new Gp is more open to following my lead on this idea and Dr Healys' confirmation of what is going on means I can get the liquid paxil on the NHS, so thats good. Ok, so details; started paxil and only paxil 20mg in 2000. Stayed on it until June 2016 (I tried to come off it before for brief periods but got the whole, I have low serotonin speech, insulin diabetes metaphor, so stayed on it!). Early June 2016 started a 8 weeks taper from 20-0. Started suffering badly at end of August so self reinstated at 20mg. A couple of weeks later got docs appointment and she upped me to 40mg. Probably spent 8 weeks or so getting back down to 20mg. Stayed here for a month or two and then (about March 2017) I thought I'd carry on down (as I didn't know if the withdrawal effects were a paradoxical effect of reinstatement, and it was worth a test). Anyway, it didn't go well and i got very paranoid. I started a semi gradual increase from 15-20 over a few weeks, I got back to 20, and have been since, in early May 2017. Obviously, I want to get off this Junk but don't want to risk getting any worse. My life's F&cked enough with all this rollercoaster of the last year (and is still ongoing). I look forward to your thoughts and advice. Regards Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted June 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2017 That really helps Dave. If at some point you could make that into bullet items and add it to your signature so we don't loose track of it. That way all the other mods can see it quickly and it helps keep us all on the same page. Right now you need stability. That means holding at your current dose for several months while your brain sorts out all the changes and settles down. I don't see a problem with going ahead with your plans to cross taper to the liquid as you'd be maintaining the same dose. In the meantime there is bunch of reading you should do here are a couple of links to get you started; Why taper by 10% of my dosage? I was going to give you a list of several links but things appear to have gotten scrambled in the software update. Take a look at the Tapering forum though, there's a lot of good information there. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
DaveB Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/24/2017 at 1:09 PM, DaveWales said: Hi Brassmonkey, thanks so much for you kind and reassuring words. It's such a lonely place isnt it! The new Gp is more open to following my lead on this idea and Dr Healys' confirmation of what is going on means I can get the liquid paxil on the NHS, so thats good. Ok, so details; started paxil and only paxil 20mg in 2000. Stayed on it until June 2016 (I tried to come off it before for brief periods but got the whole, I have low serotonin speech, insulin diabetes metaphor, so stayed on it!). Early June 2016 started a 8 weeks taper from 20-0. Started suffering badly at end of August so self reinstated at 20mg. A couple of weeks later got docs appointment and she upped me to 40mg. Probably spent 8 weeks or so getting back down to 20mg. Stayed here for a month or two and then (about March 2017) I thought I'd carry on down (as I didn't know if the withdrawal effects were a paradoxical effect of reinstatement, and it was worth a test). Anyway, it didn't go well and i got very paranoid. I started a semi gradual increase from 15-20 over a few weeks, I got back to 20, and have been since, in early May 2017. Obviously, I want to get off this Junk but don't want to risk getting any worse. My life's F&cked enough with all this rollercoaster of the last year (and is still ongoing). I look forward to your thoughts and advice. Regards Are you not doing better on the 20mgs now? I guess my question is, have you not stabilized? How long have you been on the 20mgs? 2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016. January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro. March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off. June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs October 1st - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018) November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs Link to comment
DaveWales Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 Hi, I was just after some advice and reassurance about the latest group of symptoms that seem to be harassing me. Since I settled on 20mg 6 or so weeks ago after 6-7 months of rapid taper (6 weeks), massive re-instatement (40mg), and not so gradual taper again to 20mg again, I'm on a symptom merry go round. Basically, after reinstating at 20mg I have been suffering physical symptoms again. I have a clenched jaw a lot, headaches, tingling in my fingers. But what is scaring me the most is i have developed chemical sensitivities. Mainly to perfume, deodorant etc. However, I have also starting thinking I started itching when Im in the sea, in my wetsuit. As a kayaking instructor who is doing his best to work through this hell this is scaring me to hell! This sensitivity is new to me, I've suffered from allergies in the past, but no reactions to chemicals etc. I read the "killing me softly" paper and that scares me even more about how this is because of the death of a part of the brain! But, Ive also read posts from people on BenzoBuddies who have had this sort of thing as a symptom that has resolved with time, like Im clinging onto the hope that these myriad of cognitive symptoms will! I really would like to hear from anyone who has had this sensitivity that has then resolved with time. You wouldn't have thought I was a completely rational health man and adventure sports instructor this time last year before my bloody doctor, who I trusted, said come off these things over 6 weeks! What is also so hard to get my head around is my parents advised me to go on these things when I was 17 because i was suffering from some paranoia / anxiety after chronic cannabis smoking as a teenager. I blame them massively for not warning me (a 15 year old kid) that smoking weed could cause me to be on this road for the rest of my life! Then, even though they knew I was a reactive kid (allergies to pulses, lentils, vinegar etc) and a strange histomine system they let the docs put me on these F*cking pills (paxil). The doc's even tried to put me on an anti-psychotic which my body rejected violently with facial spasmodia, even then no-one warned this poor kid that these pills can mess you right up. Then fast forward 17 years and as I've had no adverse reactions to these pills ever, and been symptom free and recovered for 17 years I ask the docs advice about coming off them, and ask my parents advice about the whole coming off them thing. That in my mind was 2 control measures (things that control risk) against the hazard of messing up coming off them, and making a bad decision. Little did I know my doc would be a pharma puppet, but I expected my parents to have my back in this. It's the only time in my life I've asked for help and the people I trusted the most completely failed me, not through lack of love etc, but by not researching, asking peers, and basically having the common sense that a 15 year old cannot be expected to have! Especially after they lived through Thalidomide etc. I have always been so close to my parents, but this is ripping us apart as I don't want to see them. So what I am going through is hell, and I'm loosing my family too. This is truly shi*e! Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
Madeleine Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Forgive your parents. So many people in our society are convinced anti-depressants are good, harmless etc. There are ads, articles in newspapers and websitesabout the benefits of psych drugs plus doctors who are supposed to be medical experts and are often revered in our society promote them. With all that positive spin no wonder people like your parents do not research or know the other side. Your parents did what they thought was good. You are now in your 30s, an adult, and blaming them for mistakes they made and being angry serves no purpose. You have a mind of your own, and are a separate individual. Accept that they think differently than you-- that they do not know all there is to know-- and Accept that on this subject you might not be able to convince them. They are fallible like we all are. Love them all the same even though you differ on this topic. 200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021; Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg ------- Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18; May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg Link to comment
powerback Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I agree with madeleine .your correctly angry about doctors ,I've been were you are with my parents ,your parents just did what they thought was correct at the time ,we all get bought in by society's idea of doctors but we will help on challenging this ideal in time . no one can take your anger away from you ,you have a right to it ,just be very careful pointing it in the wrong direction and don't let it eat you up . take care . PB Alcohol free since February 2015 1MG diazepam 4.5MG PROZAC. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted June 28, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 28, 2017 Dave, just a note to let you know I moved a topic you started, "chemical sensitivities" to an existing topic with almost the same name: Chemical Sensitivity. A number of members, past and present, report chemical sensitivity as a symptom arising during tapering and withdrawal. Another topic with a brief discussion: Difference between multiple chemical sensitivity and just a hypersensitized nervous system. Almost every possible withdrawal symptom has been experienced by a member and there is almost certainly an existing topic about it. The purpose of the site is tapering support by providing information, so we like to keep related information together in one topic rather than having many topics over the years about the same thing. To find topics about a symptom, you can use the site's search function. Another option is to use a web search engine (google, bing, etc.) and include site:survivingantidepressants.org with your other search terms. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
Distraut Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Believe me Dave, as a parent of a son in a similar withdrawal situation, when I see his present suffering I can tell you that the guilt and grief for me is overwhelming! Why did I not research all this years ago?! My thoughts are with you cannabis: Spring 2002 - Dec. 2007; regularly smoked, stopped cold turkey; symptoms: paranoid and depressed Paroxetine: 20 mg July 2008, 40 mg October, 20 mg spring 2009, 0 mg summer 2009 Depakote (sodium valproate): October 2008 - Spring 2009 Haloperdidol 1 week Oct. 2008, H caused seizures, went to A&E; stopped taking it. Citalopram: few weeks in the fall of 2009 to deal with withdrawal symptoms from stopping paroxetine Paroxetine round 2: 20 mg Feb - summer 2010 -20mg don't remeber if I went up to 40mg Venlafaxine & sodium valproate (again): Sep 2010 - Summer 2012 SERTRALINE: November 2012 - May 2016 , 50-100mg (few days @ 150mg in Summer '15). a complete freak out at the end of April. May 2016 Prescribed Lithium and Abilify HAVE NOT TAKEN No medications May 2016 - October 2016 Hospitalised - November 13th 2016 - Prescribed 15 mg Mirtazapine/Remeron. Reducing since 24 December 2016. 9 June 2017 medication free. Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 Hi Guy's thanks for your replies here, its appreciated. Madeline and Powerback I understand what your saying about forgiving them, and when I speak to my mother I want to forgive her and my dad. But, I think because I have held them in such high regard throughout my life I'm devastated they could make such a detrimental decision for me when I was still living at home, age 17, and in (what was then) the worst situation I had been in in my short life. It's shook my core believes that I could always trust my mum to give me the "common sense" experienced voice that meant I didn't make a bad mistake. I think what makes it raw at the moment too, is although they acknowledge what Im going through, unlike distraught, they havn't made the connection that at that time they were the only ones who could have made the correct decision. I suppose after 50 years of life, I'm annoyed they didnt say "hang on a minute I lived through thalidomide etc", these docs don't always get it right! Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 On 24/06/2017 at 6:48 PM, brassmonkey said: Hi Dave-- welcome to SA I'm so glad you found .... Hi guys so went to the docs today to get my liquid paxil. He has given me some and i have come up with a plan. Basically i am think of a 4 weeks swap from pils to potion. The split will be 15/5 10/10 and 5/15. Then ill be on 20mg in liquid form. He has given me the 10mg solition and says 5ml this is the same as 20mg of pils. But surely thats only worth 10mg of pills? Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted July 3, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 3, 2017 Commercially prepared prescriptions usually have the concentration of the active ingredient printed on the label. What does the label or the box say? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Hi Guys, So I think the re-instatement of the Paroxetine is making me worse. It helped with reducing the paranoia associated with the 20-15mg (18mg - 10% cut for 6 weeks then 15mg - approx 15% cut for 6 weeks) dose drop over 12 weeks) This was after the massive crash last September. But as in some area's like mood and really negative thoughts, and no emotions I see I'm worse at 20mg. This whole cycle has really messed my systems up. But I am thinking of starting a much slower taper. Ive attached an excel doc of the possible rates. Basically, I have come up the following: a 4 week tapered cross over to paxil liquid split as 15 pill / 5 liquid then 10 / 10, 5 / 15 and on 20mg liquid after 3 weeks First proposed taper rate is the most conservative at 3% every 4 weeks. another is 4%, another 5% The most conservative taper is 0.2 mg every 4 weeks. mods thoughts on these options would be great. Taper schedule .xlsx Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Anybody? Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 ?? are people seeing my posts. if so please reply Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
DaveB Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I don't have any real opinion, just that I see your posts and feel your pain. I am 6 months into this nightmare, and not feeling any better, so curious what the mods advise. I would think to hold at 20mgs longer until you further stabilize, but I am just going off advice they have given me. 2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016. January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro. March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off. June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs October 1st - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018) November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs Link to comment
Distraut Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Hi Dave I am no expert either, but I am following your story, which resonates a lot with me and would like to bump you up. Hopefully someone more qualified than I will soon be able to advice. My thoughts are with you. cannabis: Spring 2002 - Dec. 2007; regularly smoked, stopped cold turkey; symptoms: paranoid and depressed Paroxetine: 20 mg July 2008, 40 mg October, 20 mg spring 2009, 0 mg summer 2009 Depakote (sodium valproate): October 2008 - Spring 2009 Haloperdidol 1 week Oct. 2008, H caused seizures, went to A&E; stopped taking it. Citalopram: few weeks in the fall of 2009 to deal with withdrawal symptoms from stopping paroxetine Paroxetine round 2: 20 mg Feb - summer 2010 -20mg don't remeber if I went up to 40mg Venlafaxine & sodium valproate (again): Sep 2010 - Summer 2012 SERTRALINE: November 2012 - May 2016 , 50-100mg (few days @ 150mg in Summer '15). a complete freak out at the end of April. May 2016 Prescribed Lithium and Abilify HAVE NOT TAKEN No medications May 2016 - October 2016 Hospitalised - November 13th 2016 - Prescribed 15 mg Mirtazapine/Remeron. Reducing since 24 December 2016. 9 June 2017 medication free. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted July 10, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 10, 2017 Dave, reinstatement isn't predictable -- whether it works, or how long it will take to see an improvement. After reviewing your signature, I see that you reinstated in September 2016 (to 40 mg paroxetine). Your recent change was an updose from 15 mg to 20 mg in May 2017. Some reading for you: How long to stabilize after reinstating or updosing. Also relevant: The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization. Are you taking your dose entirely as a tablet? As liquid? A combination? The plan you posted looks fine. Just remember your body will determine how fast you can go. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
fizzkind Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Have you thought about holding a lot longer at a drop? The sensitivity issue I can relate to. I dropped from 20 to 15 and then to 13mg over 3 months. I then had to go back up to 20mg again and got heaps of kindling/start up effects again. Itching, sensitive to smells OMG! etc. This has finally settled down after 6/7months and I am feeling a lot better. i am thinking of just doing a drop every 6 months of 1mg until 10mg and then even slower. i know that someone on here did a 5 year taper from paroxetine and then got a withdrawal nearly 2 years later and she wished she had held longer at each drop rather than do one every 6 weeks. I moved from 30mg to 20mg with no problems at all. we are all really different and I know you are desperate to get off them but you have been on them 17 years (like me) and would it really be so bad to take 5 years coming off them? Just getting down to 10mg would be a great result. Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hi Fizz, yeah I dont think Im in any state at the moment to consider messing about with anything. Your sensitivities to smell, was it only a smell thing or was it a chemical sensitivity too ? For example when I was in my mothers house today I could sense the house perfume and her perfume. Never noticed it before but it gave me a headache, itchy eyes etc. I have very suddenly become sensitive to things like this. It scares the S^it out of me as living like that, not able to go anywhere without a reaction, would be no life at all. Please tell me more about your situation. Btw, I lived in NZ for a while a while; mostly down in Wellington but did go to Auckland, bay of plenty etc. Best time of my life. Many thanks Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
powerback Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 hi dave I'm the same with sensitivities ,noise/ smell/emotional .its very annoying and puts me in terrible moods ,but I'm getting better at dealing with it.i was in a house today and I smelt lily's straight away ,I never liked the smell before this ,so you can imagine 1 Alcohol free since February 2015 1MG diazepam 4.5MG PROZAC. Link to comment
DaveWales Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hi pb, how u doing mate? Im not very good. Its getting me so down. These sensitivities are different to that. I get headaches, feel dizzy when i get close to perfumes etc. Never had this before, its totally shi7e! Hope ur having a good week. Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
powerback Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 up and down Dave thanks for asking ,the worst of it will pass ,for 2 months the noise sensitivity I had was horrendous and it has eased a bit ,believe its withdrawal and your system will correct itself .so relate with the headaches .keep your spirits up .I love going for walks as far from civilization as I can .I find I'm enjoying music more lately also so that's a positive .keep your head up . PB Alcohol free since February 2015 1MG diazepam 4.5MG PROZAC. Link to comment
DaveWales Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 Hello guys I just wanted to get your advice on the latest instalment of this nightmare Paroxetine withdrawal. Basically, I got to 10mg by October last year, had a hold then think I carried on tapering too fast (8% every 4 weeks for 3 rounds, total of 12 weeks to drop from 10 to 7.6 ish). I have suffered very badly since. I am slightly paranoid, and my anxiety levels have gone through the roof! I am also experiencing some difficulty in my personal life and feel close to having a "nervous breakdown". In fact since the weekend when I had a "life stressor" I have taken a real turn for the worse, and am struggling sleeping, early morning awakening again, restlessness, agitation. I feel quite close to loosing the plot with the stress of it all. I am wondering whether a gradual updose maybe back 1mg in the same length of time it took to come off it (2 mgpw per week) is advisable? Last time I didn't have a clue about "kindling" and jumped from 15 -20mg in a single hit and paid the price massively, and still deal with being somewhat chemically sensitive. I would really appreciate a mods advice on this topic as I'm really suffering. Just to recap, the 3 basic options here are 1) hold on 7.6ish for as long as it needs to hopefully straighten itself out. In this time, work on my less than perfect life situation and take extreme self care. The risk with this though, I am wondering that if my problems are because I have dropped to a level I can not operate on, and its not the speed of withdrawal, but more i have hit the floor of what my paroxetine dependant brain can function on. Then there is the stress of going through a potentially stressful life event at this point in time. 2) upstate; say 1mgpw very slowly, and hope this provides some relief in the short term in order to be able to function on a day to day level, and address the other issues when I feel stronger / out of this acute reaction I seem to be having. 3) Go to the doctors and explore other drug options (i really dont want to do this) looking at some life advice from the "lovely grind" on youtube who himself went through zanax and paroxetine withdrawal he advocates getting your life in order and taking a holistic approach to withdrawal. This could infer that I won't get better until i sort my life issues out. On a side note, when I first tried to come off this substance about 10 years ago, I went paranoid, saw the doctor and he said (obviously) I was suffering a reimergance of my "existing condition". He tried to give me Olanzapine. I said no, but I would go back on the paroxetine, so re-instated at 20mg as I had been on for a few years at that point I got better very quickly and never had another paranoid though or anything until this try to get off it. But now thanks to being a proper adult (not an impressionable young person), and you guys I know the real story! I have noticed in this trip from 20 to 7.5mg that when I dropped to fast I would experience some strange thoughts and paranoia. However, I would take a long hold and it would all go away again. However, since dropping from 10-7.5mg it has all got a lot worse, and seems to be hanging around. Any help and advice from the mods would be much appreciated. Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted April 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2019 According to the numbers that you have gives it doesn't look like your taper has been too fast. I think the problem is that you're coming into the part of the taper that has to be taken very slowly and carefully. There are a good number of people who get down to the 10mg range with no problems just to have it all go south when they try to go further. I would suggest slowing down even more. For the time being a long hold is in order to let things settle out and restabilize. Then you can start to taper again with a smaller amount and longer holds, or possibly a Brassmonkey Slide using 5 or 8 percent. If you symptoms are totally out of control right now you might try a 1mg updose and see if that takes the edge off. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
powerback Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 On 4/24/2019 at 10:57 PM, DaveWales said: looking at some life advice from the "lovely grind" on youtube who himself went through zanax and paroxetine withdrawal he advocates getting your life in order and taking a holistic approach to withdrawal. This could infer that I won't get better until i sort my life issues out. He has a point to an extent but when in a serious wave I wouldn't think much about "changing your life "at this time . I often wonder myself if I should of come off drugs .Ah well hindsight is a b****. I wanted to lend my support during this difficult time your having Dave . Take care . Alcohol free since February 2015 1MG diazepam 4.5MG PROZAC. Link to comment
DaveWales Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 Hello, I'm looking for some advice from the admins. It's been over a month now since I had my collapse, and it's awful here at the moment. I was doing ok, and realised that I had dropped too fast but then as I said had a life stressor and crashed. My head started ringing, and I remember one night feeling as though electricity was passing through my body, especially my legs. I tried a 0.1 mg updose and got a metallic taste in my mouth and the tinnitus came back massively, and my sense of taste altered. Upon that I have not moved dose again. I am current at 137 of 355 mgpw or about 7.6 mg ish and have been for about 3 months now. It's taken 22 months to get from 20 to 7.5. I was aiming for a 4 year ish taper to be on the safe side! Seems that was too optimistic! How is 4 years not cautious enough?? I have tried to clean up my diet somewhat and removed sweets and things, started taking EPO at night. My OCD type thoughts have skyrocketed, and I am worryingly paranoid about things that I never thought about before! Strange things that make me think I am going crazy. I have massive DR and i notice atmospheric noises I dont normally. I am so scared that my brain has finally collapsed and I am doomed to be one of the never ending horror stories you hear about. The fact this has happened nearly 3 years from the original crash when the doctor brought me off 20mg over 8 weeks, and nearly 2 years into my "cautious" taper, after a 12 month hold post initial crash, I fear I will loose everything. Driving is horrible at the moment, I have severe OCD thoughts about something that happened years ago, general OCD thoughts about pretty much everything. Sometimes if I have "overdone it" the fizzing in my head comes back. However, if I dont work myself and family stand to loose everything. To say I'm on the edge is an understatement. I thought the taper was going well as could be expected then this. I beat myself up (mentally) about this every morning, and feel so bad for my family and elderly parents. I'm a strong proud man, and the thought of losing everything I have worked so hard for is destroying me. Trying to look at the facts my Garmin says my sleep is improving with more deep sleep and less time awake than a few weeks ago. Averaging 8hr a night. Some of the very weird intrusive thoughts are lessing, a few weeks ago I thought I was loosing my grip on reality when I had to remind myself where I was. The electric body thing only happened once many weeks ago, and i had rashes in the first 2 weeks too. These are no more now However I have massive daily headaches now, my MCS has got worse again (only started after an updose in 2017) and the anxiety and severe depression I am feeling, the same as when I was in acute withdrawal in 2016 leaves me feeling theres no point carrying on with this farce. I'm fighting hard to hold onto anything here. I had an appointment with David Healy the other day as hes my psych, and as vindicating of the true reality of what is happening to me (ie withdrawal, not the usual illnesses others would diagnose you with) he could offer nothing to help the current situation except say relax, and give it time. However, to maintain the last strands of my previous existence I need to maintain driving, work and look after my family. As I said I'm so lost, and angry at this whole process including myself and anyone who ever had anything to do with putting me on this drug. I try hard to temper my anger (not physical rage), but It washes over me and i feel powerless to stop it. I wish I had taken things slower, especially under 10mg, and this haunts me day and night that i had the power to stop this despite falling for the doctors lines in 2016! I hate the fact I am very logically and like to plan and I had a plan for this thing and should have listened to my body and symptoms more. I'm just a 30 odd year old bloke from the UK, of course I'm not the most in tune person with my thoughts and feelings. Also the fact I let myself have a avoidable life stressor when I was so weak plays on my mind. I look at my son and think finally his time hes lost his dad and it gives me so much pain. To think in 2016, just weeks before deciding to come of this stuff I was still training hard for various sporting events and even only 6 weeks ago I was still managing to push myself to get out and do some active sporty things. As these defined my life upto the crash of 2016. Now I am paranoid walking to the local shop, and have a headache most of the day. And as I say the DR sometimes makes me think I'm not even part of what's going on around me! Any help would be appreciated, especially stories of people who have suffered such a thing so far into their taper and still managed to make it back to some sort of meaningful normal existence. I'm loosing hope here guys. Thanks Dave Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
powerback Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 45 minutes ago, DaveWales said: Hello, I'm looking for some advice from the admins. It's been over a month now since I had my collapse, and it's awful here at the moment. I was doing ok, and realised that I had dropped too fast but then as I said had a life stressor and crashed. My head started ringing, and I remember one night feeling as though electricity was passing through my body, especially my legs. I tried a 0.1 mg updose and got a metallic taste in my mouth and the tinnitus came back massively, and my sense of taste altered. Upon that I have not moved dose again. I am current at 137 of 355 mgpw or about 7.6 mg ish and have been for about 3 months now. It's taken 22 months to get from 20 to 7.5. I was aiming for a 4 year ish taper to be on the safe side! Seems that was too optimistic! How is 4 years not cautious enough?? I have tried to clean up my diet somewhat and removed sweets and things, started taking EPO at night. My OCD type thoughts have skyrocketed, and I am worryingly paranoid about things that I never thought about before! Strange things that make me think I am going crazy. I have massive DR and i notice atmospheric noises I dont normally. I am so scared that my brain has finally collapsed and I am doomed to be one of the never ending horror stories you hear about. The fact this has happened nearly 3 years from the original crash when the doctor brought me off 20mg over 8 weeks, and nearly 2 years into my "cautious" taper, after a 12 month hold post initial crash, I fear I will loose everything. Driving is horrible at the moment, I have severe OCD thoughts about something that happened years ago, general OCD thoughts about pretty much everything. Sometimes if I have "overdone it" the fizzing in my head comes back. However, if I dont work myself and family stand to loose everything. To say I'm on the edge is an understatement. I thought the taper was going well as could be expected then this. I beat myself up (mentally) about this every morning, and feel so bad for my family and elderly parents. I'm a strong proud man, and the thought of losing everything I have worked so hard for is destroying me. Trying to look at the facts my Garmin says my sleep is improving with more deep sleep and less time awake than a few weeks ago. Averaging 8hr a night. Some of the very weird intrusive thoughts are lessing, a few weeks ago I thought I was loosing my grip on reality when I had to remind myself where I was. The electric body thing only happened once many weeks ago, and i had rashes in the first 2 weeks too. These are no more now However I have massive daily headaches now, my MCS has got worse again (only started after an updose in 2017) and the anxiety and severe depression I am feeling, the same as when I was in acute withdrawal in 2016 leaves me feeling theres no point carrying on with this farce. I'm fighting hard to hold onto anything here. I had an appointment with David Healy the other day as hes my psych, and as vindicating of the true reality of what is happening to me (ie withdrawal, not the usual illnesses others would diagnose you with) he could offer nothing to help the current situation except say relax, and give it time. However, to maintain the last strands of my previous existence I need to maintain driving, work and look after my family. As I said I'm so lost, and angry at this whole process including myself and anyone who ever had anything to do with putting me on this drug. I try hard to temper my anger (not physical rage), but It washes over me and i feel powerless to stop it. I wish I had taken things slower, especially under 10mg, and this haunts me day and night that i had the power to stop this despite falling for the doctors lines in 2016! I hate the fact I am very logically and like to plan and I had a plan for this thing and should have listened to my body and symptoms more. I'm just a 30 odd year old bloke from the UK, of course I'm not the most in tune person with my thoughts and feelings. Also the fact I let myself have a avoidable life stressor when I was so weak plays on my mind. I look at my son and think finally his time hes lost his dad and it gives me so much pain. To think in 2016, just weeks before deciding to come of this stuff I was still training hard for various sporting events and even only 6 weeks ago I was still managing to push myself to get out and do some active sporty things. As these defined my life upto the crash of 2016. Now I am paranoid walking to the local shop, and have a headache most of the day. And as I say the DR sometimes makes me think I'm not even part of what's going on around me! Any help would be appreciated, especially stories of people who have suffered such a thing so far into their taper and still managed to make it back to some sort of meaningful normal existence. I'm loosing hope here guys. Thanks Dave @Shep @Altostrata @Gridley @manymoretodays Alcohol free since February 2015 1MG diazepam 4.5MG PROZAC. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 31, 2019 Administrator Share Posted May 31, 2019 Dave, really sorry you're going through this. You didn't do anything wrong. Paroxetine is very difficult to go off. Did you discuss switching to Prozac with Dr. Healy? Can you phone him and discuss it? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
DaveWales Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 I didn't no Alto, but when I tried to swap to the paroxetine liquid I found it too hard and was easier to stick with the pills and measuring cutting them with a gemini scale. I really don't want to change anything else at the moment as I think it could risk an upset for my system. As I reacted when I updosed even 0.1 mg I am thinking creatively about ways to get paroxetine back in my system in a non reacting manner. One way I thought was to have a dose every 22 hours then every 12 days I get an extra 7.5 in my system bringing the average up to over 8. Or, as I have my pill at night before bed maybe adding the smallest increment 1mgpw extra in the morning as some of the night befores would be out of my system. I could then add mega slowly and try and not increase total paroxetine load but increase the average. Any thoughts Alto? Many thanks. Intro - On Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) 20mg since 1999 (age 18). Tapered off over 8 weeks on Dr's advice 2016 - Crashed massively (acute withdrawal) September '16 and reinstated on doc's advice. Found this site and started getting real answers! Currently doing a very slow withdrawal. Taper progress - September '16 - 40mg / December'16 - 30mg / Feb '17 - 20 mg / March '17 - 18mg / April '17 - 15mg - became paranoid / May '17- upped dose to 20mg (kindled - developed chemical sensitivities and neuropathy in legs). 2 month hold. July '17 - 19.5mg / Aug'17 - 18.5mg / Sept '17 - 17.5mg / October '17 - 17mg / Nov '17 - 16mg / Dec '17 - 15.5mg / Jan '18 - hold / Feb '18 - 14.5mg / April '18 - 13mg / June '18 - 11.5mg / Aug '18 - 10mg (half way hold of approx 2 months) / Nov '18 - 9mg / Dec '18 - 8mg. (tapering too fast, having anxiety / paranoia, so having a 6 week extra hold) / April 19 - still holding at approx 7.5mg Points of interest - Average seroxat 20mg pill weights 0.355g Using AWS Gemini 20 scales (seem reasonable for about £20) Link to comment
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