TreeElf: Prozac withdrawal

[TreeElf]

It's also important to say that the reason for the depth of this hopelessness is because I've realised I don't actually want to get better. And I've done enough meditative introspection and observing the mind (not to mention psychedelic experiences) to know that if you don't actually want to, you won't. I don't want to get better because I won't allow it. Getting better would mean positive feelings, connection, a sense of purpose etc. That is all in complete contrast to who I feel myself to be or what I deserve, so even if I begin to feel good I automatically stamp it out or sabotage it, or bring myself back down to depression. I won't allow recovery because it wouldn't be real, my brain can't be trusted to know what's real. It never has since that 'split' happened when I was 16. I'm really not trying to be morbid, this is what it boils down to. I won't allow myself to recover, it's too much of a risk and gets more risky with age. This has been waiting for me my entire life, the prospect of suicide, hell, rebirth in a worse place, punishment. That is why I'm so terrified, there's no hope in that. 

[ChessieCat]

15 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

'm 28 and my entire adult life, except for those two years of random recovery, has been spent trying not to kill myself.

 

This article that Bridgetini posted about is very good and may be helpful:

 

On 10/2/2018 at 10:42 PM, Bridgetini said:

And here is an article from "Mad in America": Alternatives to Suicide: Strategies for Staying Alive, by Carlene Byron, https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/09/alternatives-suicide-staying-alive/

 

[TreeElf]

Thanks @ChessieCat I'll read it now 

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

It's also important to say that the reason for the depth of this hopelessness is because I've realised I don't actually want to get better. And I've done enough meditative introspection and observing the mind (not to mention psychedelic experiences) to know that if you don't actually want to, you won't. I don't want to get better because I won't allow it. Getting better would mean positive feelings, connection, a sense of purpose etc. That is all in complete contrast to who I feel myself to be or what I deserve, so even if I begin to feel good I automatically stamp it out or sabotage it, or bring myself back down to depression. I won't allow recovery because it wouldn't be real, my brain can't be trusted to know what's real. It never has since that 'split' happened when I was 16. I'm really not trying to be morbid, this is what it boils down to. I won't allow myself to recover, it's too much of a risk and gets more risky with age. This has been waiting for me my entire life, the prospect of suicide, hell, rebirth in a worse place, punishment. That is why I'm so terrified, there's no hope in that. 

 

Abby, this is a brilliant post. Yes, you need to decide if you can be a real person without being filled with feelings of despair, self-blame, worthlessness, etc.  (By the way, with this type of introspection, it's unlikely you're a narcissist.)

 

I went through this myself. I realized that I believed if I wasn't filled with bad feelings, I would be empty and disappear.

 

It sounds like your recent contact with your family has stirred up a lot of pain and self-blame. Maybe this was why you went on the drugs in the first place. This is somewhat of a turning point. You can choose to accept yourself and start filling yourself with other feelings.

 

You don't need to be perfect. Forgiving yourself is work you have to do every single day, maybe even every single hour, whenever a self-blaming thought comes up.

 

CBT may help with rumination, but only you can forgive yourself. You can start right now.

[TreeElf]

Thanks Alto. You're right about the family, they're my only source of support yet the source of so much pain. The viciousness I have for myself is shameful. For example I just read on Facebook someone talk about a controversial topic which I'd usually have one opinion on, but because she had the opposite and presented in a good way I felt I agreed and liked that people were getting annoyed about it. I can switch my opinions quickly and always put on others that I'm right and I know best, when really I have no sense of self. I can be cold, condescending, emotionally detached. Yet for a long time I did think I was 'better' than my family. I cared about them but felt I was the more collected one, more selfless, smarter, more aware. But I'm just as bad as all of them. I have deeply deceived myself and that makes me worse. 

 

I've been in bed since I was brought home yesterday. Can manage to get up once or twice to get food but other than that I'm paralyzed, I can't let myself have any good feeling. No reading, looking outside, TV, or anything. The only thing I can allow is sleep, because the nice feelings there are when I'm unconscious. I am focusing on breathing mostly, and checking on here between sleep. No idea how to ever move from this but can't think of that, it hurts too much. Thank you for your replies though, they have been a lifeline 

[Altostrata]

Abby, that's stunning introspection. I am confident you can choose your best self and forgive yourself for your errors.

 

Forgiving yourself is kind of like meditation: Nobody ever perfects it. You have to practice it constantly.

 

You can decide what your values are and behave according to them. Is being kind important to you? Especially online, this is easy to practice -- look at what you've written and change it to be kindly before you publish it.

 

Now, whenever you blame yourself for a failing, say "I forgive myself" -- unless you want to keep blaming yourself, which is like the mental equivalent of self-cutting. Your choice. (Now that I've said that, you can blame yourself for mental self-cutting, too -- if you want to. The sins you can accuse yourself of are endless.)

 

My guess is you also have some existential issues. You might look into Dialectical Behavioral Therapy or Radical Acceptance or even existentialism itself. There are some things you cannot resolve, you need to accept them and move on.

[powerback]

HI AE I spent the whole day scanning every negative thought like what Alto was saying and replaced it with witnessing it  ,it takes work and its worth doing ,I'm closer to the real non perfect me now than I was 2 years ago I can feel it but with the added benefit of insight and a lot of work on healing and acceptance of me as a decent human being ,we are not sick in a way the powers that be label us ,we are hurt kids with baggage underneath the armour of defence.

This is not a judgment on you but scale back Facebook a bit [or what I call it fakebook],its a white washed version of peoples lives ,put that time into healing .don't  underestimate society's power over our emotions .

I try to avoid all drama ,I simply will not be drawn into any if I can avoid it .I see the irony ,the fact I create drama in withdrawl but you get my drift lol.

 

Its very interesting what you say about not letting yourself have good feelings ,im very conscious im like this at times and I allow the better feelings in and work on it ,I seek better feelings out ,I was shattered tired in lidil yesterday and I let 2 people go ahead of me in the que and I allowed and cherished the nice communication with them .just keep at it ,we deserve it .be good to you and don't bother with opinions of others ,I will work on this more myself .

Take care.  

[TreeElf]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Abby, that's stunning introspection. I am confident you can choose your best self and forgive yourself for your errors.

 

Forgiving yourself is kind of like meditation: Nobody ever perfects it. You have to practice it constantly.

 

You can decide what your values are and behave according to them. Is being kind important to you? Especially online, this is easy to practice -- look at what you've written and change it to be kindly before you publish it.

 

Now, whenever you blame yourself for a failing, say "I forgive myself" -- unless you want to keep blaming yourself, which is like the mental equivalent of self-cutting. Your choice. (Now that I've said that, you can blame yourself for mental self-cutting, too -- if you want to. The sins you can accuse yourself of are endless.)

 

My guess is you also have some existential issues. You might look into Dialectical Behavioral Therapy or Radical Acceptance or even existentialism itself. There are some things you cannot resolve, you need to accept them and move on.

 

Thank you. It's true it's a constant process. It's a constant form of mental self-cutting, believing things are a bit better, then back to cutting. It makes a lot of sense when you say the sins you can accuse yourself of are endless. 

One side of me wants kindness and love, the other believes I'm incapable of it deep down and it's fake. This has always been the battle. I guess I'm afraid to be kind because it might not be real, and I might deceive myself further. But the only thing to be done is to try and fail and try each moment. 

 

I don't know a lot about DBT but was interested in I'm recently. I'm aware now that a lot of my symptoms now are similar to those of borderline personality disorder, although I don't think labels or diagnoses are always helpful in this case. But I discovered the split sense of self, extreme swings, overreaction to things etc are common with it and that DBT is helpful. So I think I'm going to look into that, there is definitely a huge existential aspect to all of this. Thanks for reminding me, when I'm able I'll try and find a therapist 

[TreeElf]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

HI AE I spent the whole day scanning every negative thought like what Alto was saying and replaced it with witnessing it  ,it takes work and its worth doing ,I'm closer to the real non perfect me now than I was 2 years ago I can feel it but with the added benefit of insight and a lot of work on healing and acceptance of me as a decent human being ,we are not sick in a way the powers that be label us ,we are hurt kids with baggage underneath the armour of defence.

This is not a judgment on you but scale back Facebook a bit [or what I call it fakebook],its a white washed version of peoples lives ,put that time into healing .don't  underestimate society's power over our emotions .

I try to avoid all drama ,I simply will not be drawn into any if I can avoid it .I see the irony ,the fact I create drama in withdrawl but you get my drift lol.

 

Its very interesting what you say about not letting yourself have good feelings ,im very conscious im like this at times and I allow the better feelings in and work on it ,I seek better feelings out ,I was shattered tired in lidil yesterday and I let 2 people go ahead of me in the que and I allowed and cherished the nice communication with them .just keep at it ,we deserve it .be good to you and don't bother with opinions of others ,I will work on this more myself .

Take care.  

 

Glad you have found even a slightly better sense of self in the last two years. And you're definitely right about Facebook, it's so easy to absorb the drama. Especially being so sensitized to stimuli. Hope you can continue to nurture good feelings, however small, take care 

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

One side of me wants kindness and love, the other believes I'm incapable of it deep down and it's fake. This has always been the battle. I guess I'm afraid to be kind because it might not be real, and I might deceive myself further. But the only thing to be done is to try and fail and try each moment. 

 

 

You're way overthinking this and finding new, creative ways of self-blame. Simply short-circuit the rationalizations, forgive yourself, and be kind.

[Songbird]

10 hours ago, powerback said:

we are hurt kids

 

This is so true - whenever I get emotionally triggered I now realise it is my "inner child" reacting - it's a rehash of some hurt I must have experienced as a very young child, like replaying an old tape recording.  I call it a "button push".   I think this is probably true of all our emotions on some level - they are all memories or echoes of some very early emotion.

 

I haven't done a lot of therapy but have worked on myself over the years using self-help books by authors such as Louise Hay and Susan Jeffers.  The way they talk, when we find one of these issues coming up it's like finding a "treasure", because then we can hold it up to the light and really see it for what it is.  Instead of worrying about who you are, or worrying about the whole of the rest of your life, you can let yourself be whoever you are right now in this moment and let that be okay.  Instead of black-or-white thinking, i.e. you are good/bad, right/wrong, etc., you can allow yourself to be human, i.e. full of imperfections and contradictions.

 

I think of life as a learning journey, and each one of us is on our own journey.  There was a member on another similar forum who used to call the rough patches "AFGOs", which stood for "Another F-ing Growth Opportunity".  Maybe this rough patch could be an opportunity for you to learn and grow.

 

If breathing, eating and sleeping is all you can do right now, then do that.  Do what you can do.  Maybe after a while you'll find you are able to do one more small thing - take baby steps, go gently.

 

 

[Bridgetini]

Great suggestions and help here, thank you all. 

AbbyElfie, I hope that you are feeling even a little bit more rested/ less despairing today. Sending you love.

 

I love the term AFGO! 

[TreeElf]

@Altostrata @Songbird

I know on some level I'm ruminating obsessively, it's just hard for me to tell the difference between rational worry and irrational. I've had severe ocd since I was 16 and ever since my mind has been constantly checking checking checking to varying degrees. It has pretty much always been this way, hence why I lost touch with reality at some point and had a breakdown. My mind checks and obsessed even in my dreams a lot of the time, it's almost subconscious. Cbt techniques/meditation dull it but it always resurfaces, that obsessive need for certainty and security has reached insane levels at times. Prozac sadly was the only thing that stopped it. 

 

It's very true about the hurt child thing. I started doing an exercise someone told me about a while ago where if I was in a bad state I'd ask how old I was, and answer quickly. It's a quick way to find out what age you're currently operating from. 

As you say, songbird, it's one breath at a time. That has to be enough right now. 

 

I've learned more in the last five years than I can imagine some do in a lifetime, but this has knocked me for six. On meditation retreats I had experiences of being out of the body, ego death, and the purifying terror and bliss of ayahuasca... Yet none of those compared to this. I almost wish I hadn't had those experiences because it felt like I was rapidly changing and getting somewhere. They feel like an alien lifetime now. Maybe I've done too much, and need to accept some things can't be healed. I messed with a lot of drugs too because it was unbearable to be in my own mind, especially after destabilization from ct's and overdoses. For the first time I truly have no energy left to fight except lie here and keep breathing. 

[TreeElf]

1 minute ago, Bridgetini said:

Great suggestions and help here, thank you all. 

AbbyElfie, I hope that you are feeling even a little bit more rested/ less despairing today. Sending you love.

 

I love the term AFGO! 

 Thanks Bridgetini. A bit anhedonic today, but I slept all night. Waking up is the hard part. Hope you are well

[TreeElf]

went downstairs and ate something, some nausea, shaking/twitching, almost like vibrating inside. My mind has gone a quite blank and disorientated. Went back to bed and decided to call lifeline, I rang them once years ago and the lady had been very kind, so I thought they'd be able to just be an objective ear, literally a lifeline. To help me through the next dip. Unfortunately the woman didn't want to hear much, and basically said I needed to call the doctor because this line is for those in crisis. If I'd been capable I'd have laughed, if this isn't a crisis then what is. 

Called out of ours doctor and waiting on a call back, although I know it's pointless. None of them believe me that it's withdrawal, and I'm hands down refusing to take any drugs if they're offered. Except a short prescription of diazepam for the extreme panic attacks. I don't really know what I was trying to get from ringing them, we really are on our own with this for the most part. 

*edit. Lifeline lady just called back, she wanted details of my friend who has the kids. She was very keen to make sure they were safe, which they are and I assured her. This risk assessment list system is all out of whack, I feel worse for ringing them. 

[TreeElf]

I'm going to list daily symptoms here as suggested on the intro threads, rather than ramble mindlessly. It'll give me one thing to focus on doing each day and I can keep track of what's happening too.

 

Today

8.30 - woke up, difficulty becoming conscious, realising where I was, anxiety

9.00 - Took 5mg liquid Fluoxetine, 2 tbsp collostrum powder, 2 fish oil capsules, two oat biscuits to line stomach

10.00 - 12.00 - Made myself eat something. Smoked a small joint (have decreased this but needed one thing to focus on other than lying in bed, I know I need to stop). Overall, (these symptoms are pretty much all day): lethargy, twitching, shaking particularly at the neck and shoulders, painful head pressure, tinnitus, anhedonia, akathisia, numbing depression, fear, cortisol/adrenaline rushes (mainly earlier in the day), nausea after eating, sensation of things crawling on the skin, no energy

13.00 onwards - spoke to lifeline (see above) and out of hours doctor. He suggested to call my doctor on monday or go to casualty if necessary. Posted online for a bit. Staying in bed to try and contain symptoms.

 

[powerback]

3 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

went downstairs and ate something, some nausea, shaking/twitching, almost like vibrating inside. My mind has gone a quite blank and disorientated. Went back to bed and decided to call lifeline, I rang them once years ago and the lady had been very kind, so I thought they'd be able to just be an objective ear, literally a lifeline. To help me through the next dip. Unfortunately the woman didn't want to hear much, and basically said I needed to call the doctor because this line is for those in crisis. If I'd been capable I'd have laughed, if this isn't a crisis then what is. 

Called out of ours doctor and waiting on a call back, although I know it's pointless. None of them believe me that it's withdrawal, and I'm hands down refusing to take any drugs if they're offered. Except a short prescription of diazepam for the extreme panic attacks. I don't really know what I was trying to get from ringing them, we really are on our own with this for the most part. 

*edit. Lifeline lady just called back, she wanted details of my friend who has the kids. She was very keen to make sure they were safe, which they are and I assured her. This risk assessment list system is all out of whack, I feel worse for ringing them. 

Very true AE ,they wouldnt have a clue about this stuff,your just reaching for reasurance ,perfectly normal ,if your really adamint about no more meds then there will be hard waves that you will have to surf because if youd ring these places enough theyl take control ,its very tricky indeed ,come to your thread like you are .

Always reach out to the mods ,small introductions of meds if nessasary .

I remember textn the samaratins 2 years ago ,it filled 30 mins of a very dark day .

Take care,youl be ok .

[TreeElf]

Thanks @powerback. It does fill a short time of the day with something more than the intense pain. I'm grateful to be able to write here. I hope you're managing and look forward to hearing your success story in time.

Also I wanted to just say thank you particularly to @Altostrata and the other mods here. I see you responding to practically every post, it must be such an immense job to do so after a long personal history with withdrawal, and to maintain this site when it would be very easy to try to forget the whole thing. This site is saving lives, so thank you. 

[Altostrata]

Yes, it is a lot of work. Thank you!

 

7 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

I'm going to list daily symptoms here as suggested on the intro threads, rather than ramble mindlessly. It'll give me one thing to focus on doing each day and I can keep track of what's happening too.

 

Today

8.30 - woke up, difficulty becoming conscious, realising where I was, anxiety

9.00 - Took 5mg liquid Fluoxetine, 2 tbsp collostrum powder, 2 fish oil capsules, two oat biscuits to line stomach

10.00 - 12.00 - Made myself eat something. Smoked a small joint (have decreased this but needed one thing to focus on other than lying in bed, I know I need to stop). Overall, (these symptoms are pretty much all day): lethargy, twitching, shaking particularly at the neck and shoulders, painful head pressure, tinnitus, anhedonia, akathisia, numbing depression, fear, cortisol/adrenaline rushes (mainly earlier in the day), nausea after eating, sensation of things crawling on the skin, no energy

13.00 onwards - spoke to lifeline (see above) and out of hours doctor. He suggested to call my doctor on monday or go to casualty if necessary. Posted online for a bit. Staying in bed to try and contain symptoms.

 

 

Thank you for these notes.

 

What time of day does the twitching, etc. start? Do you feel better before you take fluoxetine? When do you get the adrenaline rushes? Does the marijuana help?

 

Why did you call lifeline?

[TreeElf]

29 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, it is a lot of work. Thank you!

 

 

Thank you for these notes.

 

What time of day does the twitching, etc. start? Do you feel better before you take fluoxetine? When do you get the adrenaline rushes? Does the marijuana help?

 

Why did you call lifeline?

 

Twitching is on and off throughout the day, worse when anxiety rises or thoughts get more intense. I feel pretty much the same before/after taking the fluoxetine, although possibly very slightly better after.

 

Adrenaline rushes are much the same as the twitching/shaking. On and off but worse when I'm just waking up and when anxiety rises throughout the day, or there's a trigger. For instance I was just reading a post in the Finding Meaning section and read one from a lady who seemed to have an extreme reaction in 2016. When I went to check her profile to see how she was doing now I read she had died. This terrified and upset me so much, as I could relate very specifically to her final posts. I need to be more careful with what I'm exposing myself to.

 

The marijuana - it's a tough one. Generally I think it neither helps nor hinders, I sometimes get a bit more anxiety after/during smoking but this is usually offset by the relief it gives me to have any remote source of joy/comfort. I'd say it probably does increase the thinking, while at the same time it often helps me remove myself from thoughts and relax. It's an odd one.

 

I called Lifeline because they were very helpful in the past. I can't let family/friends near the house right now, and I'm afraid to contact the doctor, so it was more to hear an objective complete stranger. This is what has saved me often in the past. I didn't expect a lot though, but was disappointed with this particular woman's attitude, she was only concerned with whether I was immediately about to kill myself there and then, and if they children were safe. But I don't think this is representative of all of their volunteers so I wouldn't rule out contacting them in a crisis.

 

Rest of today:

15.00 - 18.30 - slept but was sometimes aware of my surroundings a bit, so not deeply. But also had strangely kind of relaxing dreams. It was a bit like a valium sleep, although I haven't taken anymore diazepam. Sleep seems to be the only relief at the minute.

18.30 - 21.30 - some twitchy shaking around the neck/shoulders on and off. Feeling of internal trembling. Rush of anxiety and grief/fear after reading that post about that poor woman. overall 'ill' or very mild flu feeling, skin itching/prickling (which is new). Constant low energy and depression

[Altostrata]

I need to know if you have any adverse effects from the Prozac. You will need to track symptoms for hours after you take it. Are any times of day better than others?

 

A simple list format is best for me.

[TreeElf]

Ok, I'll start monitoring this from tomorrow's dose. Generally it's been worse in the morning, a dip in the afternoon, then gradual slight improvement until night time. 

 

Since this crash though things are a lot more haywire. But mornings are still the worst. Will update tomorrow properly in list form, thank you 

[Carmie]

Hi AbbyEffie, 

 

Yes, there doesn’t seem to be much use talking to anyone who has never been through withdrawals. Off course, people can still be kind n caring, but not having experienced this journey of withdrawals they wouldn’t have a clue how horrific it is. 

 

Do you have any good distractions when going through waves? Even if you can’t enjoy doing them it’s still good to do them anyway to distract from the withdrawals. I have found many distractions, arts n crafts, music, nature, photography, movies n tv shows, I crochet a lot, journaling is great too, the list goes on n on.

 

 

Wishing you all the best 💚

 

 

 

[Bridgetini]

Hope you have a peaceful night, AbbyElfie.  Hang in there. 

'Night.

[powerback]

14 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Thanks @powerback. It does fill a short time of the day with something more than the intense pain. I'm grateful to be able to write here. I hope you're managing and look forward to hearing your success story in time.

Also I wanted to just say thank you particularly to @Altostrata and the other mods here. I see you responding to practically every post, it must be such an immense job to do so after a long personal history with withdrawal, and to maintain this site when it would be very easy to try to forget the whole thing. This site is saving lives, so thank you. 

That's a nice thing to say ,look forward to reading yours also AE.

Take care and be nice to yourself .

[TreeElf]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. Here's notes for today:

 

8.20 - racing, overlapping, anxious/negative thoughts increase as I become conscious. Try to observe them and avoid waking as long as possible. Feelings of numbness, but also hopelessness, detachment, severe 'boredom' as if I'll never be able to move or do anything again.

9.30 - Got up, took collostrum (2 tbsp). Short crying spell/grief.

10.00 - Took 5mg (1.25ml) Prozac and x2 fish oils

10.30 - 13.30 - Back to bed but managed to distract online. Overlapping, distorted thoughts, depression, dulled rumination, apathy, anhedonia, paralysis. Little to no shaking except when I get up to do something.

13.30 - 19.30 - smoked a small joint, mild anxiety after getting up and walking downstairs/up again but not major. Distracted with online, although turned into checking compulsion, obsessively reading about fears, tried to stay neutral out of fear of things spiraling. Intense recoiling and guilt after allowing any remotely positive feelings to arise. Been holding my st Michael pendant for protection through day and night. Constant fear of 'moving forward' or (ironically) moving out of mental paralysis.

19.30 - some anxiety and mild trembling when friend dropped off food for me. Managed to speak with them for 30 mins. Confusion, uncertainty and some guilt after.

20.00 - Took probiotic and ashwaganda capsule (as I do every night). Main symptoms now are anhedonia, apathy, depression and hopelessness. Slightly more energy and less internal shaking.

 

These crashes take a similar pattern whereby the obsessive thinking starts rapidly seeing everything (a negative fear) from every angle until it reaches crisis point, I panic/hyperventilate, go into a state of suicidal despair for a while, then my brain 'shuts off', almost to protect itself. I detach, go into paralysis, can't move or make decisions, and go numb. Then the persistent, almost subconscious fearful ruminations creep in again, along with the compulsion to 'check'.

 

I hope you're all coping well today x

 

[Altostrata]

Since you took 5mg Prozac in May, how have your symptoms changed? Were they better for a while, then worse, or did they get a bit better and stay at that plateau?

[TreeElf]

Immediately after reinstatement they got horrendous for a few days, then quite rapidly better after about 2 weeks. I think I hit two waves over the summer but both were short - severe but not as severe as the previous crash. Since September to now I had a couple of short waves again, on and off, I think maybe the depression got somewhat worse, but overall things were gradually improving then plateauing. This crash on Wednesday was extremely sudden and, the part that concerns me most, is that it was worse than the one in May. The trigger was certainly external stress.

 

I also totally forgot to mention that I saw a guy who did Bio-resonance back in September. He's an ex surgeon and very knowledgeable, I was wary at first but he was lovely. The machine scanned my entire body and used frequency to go into each deeper layer of cell and pick up and balance anything off. I had a minor bacteria in the gut and traces of herpes virus in the brain, but that is very common and it was low, which he was able to balance with the frequencies there and then. So it was good to confirm I am in good physical health, including neurotransmitter function. To aid withdrawal, he loaned me a CES machine: https://www.drdiane.com/ces-device-treating-anxiety-insomnia-depression/

 

I was using the machine approx twice a day up until this past week. I'm unsure whether it helped as it's hard to tell in w/d, but there didn't seem to be any adverse effects so it could have. I'm wondering if I should do a short 5 minute go of it in the mornings? I'm very afraid of making anything worse so might be best to wait.

[Bluebird2009]

18 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Immediately after reinstatement they got horrendous for a few days, then quite rapidly better after about 2 weeks. I think I hit two waves over the summer but both were short - severe but not as severe as the previous crash. Since September to now I had a couple of short waves again, on and off, I think maybe the depression got somewhat worse, but overall things were gradually improving then plateauing. This crash on Wednesday was extremely sudden and, the part that concerns me most, is that it was worse than the one in May. The trigger was certainly external stress.

 

I also totally forgot to mention that I saw a guy who did Bio-resonance back in September. He's an ex surgeon and very knowledgeable, I was wary at first but he was lovely. The machine scanned my entire body and used frequency to go into each deeper layer of cell and pick up and balance anything off. I had a minor bacteria in the gut and traces of herpes virus in the brain, but that is very common and it was low, which he was able to balance with the frequencies there and then. So it was good to confirm I am in good physical health, including neurotransmitter function. To aid withdrawal, he loaned me a CES machine: https://www.drdiane.com/ces-device-treating-anxiety-insomnia-depression/

 

I was using the machine approx twice a day up until this past week. I'm unsure whether it helped as it's hard to tell in w/d, but there didn't seem to be any adverse effects so it could have. I'm wondering if I should do a short 5 minute go of it in the mornings? I'm very afraid of making anything worse so might be best to wait.

Can I ask who you saw and where I cld see this doctor please. Also are you back on your medication?

[TreeElf]

Hi @Bluebird2009, his name is modestas and he operates a clinic some days a week in comber and some up near Helen's Bay. I believe he might have to go to the US for a period soon though so try and see him while you can. Tell him Abby referred you, he knows a bit about my withdrawal and can advise on hypersensitivity. Here's his site:   https://holisticdoctor.eu/

 

I'm still on 5mg from May, when I updosed from 1.8mg. I was off completely back in Oct 2017 but had to reinstate a tiny amount due to extreme symptoms. I've been on 5mg since and probably won't be moving from that for a long time. 

[TreeElf]

Today's notes:

 

(Last night - read one post on here after writing previous notes, as I'm trying to limit what I'm exposing myself to, and read that another person who had died. A rush of terror went through me and I was suddenly very aware that my life was at serious risk. It caused some kind of adrenaline rush, I breathed deeply and moved around a bit, and kept repeating 'i choose to live' over and over ;ike a mantra. I then went to youtube, even though I haven't been able to do anything in terms of reading/watching, and watched an inspirational video for those who were suicidal/depressed. It was a strange, survival type adrenaline rush. Slept with no problems.)

 

8.30 - some morning anxiety on waking. same as yesterday, increased thoughts/anxiety as I thought about having to get through the day again.

10.00 - Took collostrum, 5mg Prozac and x2 fish oils.

10.30 - First shceduled Skype CBT session. Managed to explain a lot to her. Feeling of having to exaggerate symptoms to make her understand, resulting in increased anxiety, inner trembling, and constant scratching/hair pulling/itching while talking to her. She listened though.

12.00 - smoked a joint. Tension/anxiety after CBT session, doubt, fear I didn't tell the truth, feeling lost/fear of moving forward. Tinnitus on and off in different levels throughout the day, some throbbing in the ears.

13.00 - 18.00 - online searching, tried to minimize. Spoke to mum and sister, but still lots of wariness, doubt, anhedonia.

18.00 - 20.30 - himalyan salt bath, physically more relaxed. Paradoxically afraid to relax, although this conflict is not as intense right now as I've sort of 'blocked' my mind from it somewhat. A few rushes of positive-type feelings, although they are uncomfortable because I don't want to feel them, but do (??). When this happens I automatically go into pleasure/addict mode and seek out something - a smoke/sweet food etc. But there is a deep resistance to this as well. Hard to explain. Constant conflicting thoughts/wants/emotions. Took probiotic and ashwaganda.

[TreeElf]

(just rambling, proper notes for today to follow later)

 

I guess it's waves of grief, which I'm no stranger to, but I just needed to write out somewhere that I am angry, disappointed, devastated, and a little bitter. I swing between 'come on, get on with things, keep striving', to 'how can this actually be my life?' I know in the long run there is no good to come from resentment or dwelling on the past. But I do need to address my anger over my circumstances in some way.

 

This morning I just thought 'what was it all for?' What was the point? Life not only didn't turn out the way I expected, it turned out the extreme opposite of what I ever imagined. And then it switched back, and then switched AGAIN. I'm angry because it is such an incredible waste of life. I was capable of so much. A high achiever in school (except for maths and science), one of those annoying people who could turn their hand to anything, I was a painter, the best writer/english student in my year at school, I knew how to make people laugh, I was curious, had a little-bit-nervous but deep zest for life and experience. I loved to laugh. I thought life was wide open and I could do anything. Not only did that flip over night, but it's broken me down again to the point where I'm not the same and never will be. There has been so much change over the last decade, so many crazy experiences, but I truly thought (in my 'recovery' years 2015-16) that I now finally had a purpose. I saw the value in my awful experiences, I realised it all had to happen that way. I learned to be so grateful for life having it ripped away for so long. To have that happen again when you had, for the first time since childhood, felt alive, is a cruelness I can't even fathom.

 

Not only am I not that smart, curious, hopeful girl anymore, I have to deal with the person I became when everything fell apart overnight. I did things I never thought I'd do, I hated myself so much I confined myself to drug addiction, promiscuity, hedonism, self harm. I became what I feared - a miserable, manipulative, flaky, selfish mess. My only priority was survival through distraction or making myself so ill I'd be hospitalised. Some of my shameful moments were very public, others not.

 

The decision to stop harming myself changed everything. But obviously not enough. To be back here again, practically housebound at 28, when I could have done so much, is devastating. I learned when I was about 20 (and my obsessional fears were so powerful I believed I was some evil abuser), to accept I had lost everything - my relationships (because who would actually love someone so evil), friendships, prospects, career, hope for a family. I learned to watch it all go by while others did things and lived, and I was just dead. The first couple of years I reacted in denial - grappling at hope, anger, fear, a lot of crying over the loss. Then it turned to survival - a weird but unhealthy form of acceptance. The self-harm, in various forms. At some point, after a few psychedelic experiences, I guess it turned to acceptance of a whole new way of life. The old me was dead, she was never coming back. There was a re-birth of sorts.

 

But I guess I grew attached to that to. I started thinking I could 'have' normal things again. I developed friendships, connections, wrote a book, began a career, did courses, volunteered, started living again. I think, realistically, I need to accept these things are not for me. It's just not my path. I just wish I hadn't managed to fool myself into thinking otherwise.

 

Since that first episode as a teenager that changed everything, there is a strong knowing (maybe it's a deeply wired belief from the post-traumatic stress of that day, I don't know) that I can't be helped. That I am damned, that my case is different, that people just don't understand how bad I actually am. So I try to get them to understand but no one believes me. One thing I have always done, which is probably what has kept me alive, is reach out for help. Eventually, after I suppress pain for long enough and try to keep going, at my worst moments I desperately reach out in some way. For survival. But this coincides with the belief that I can't really be helped, and that I am meant to suffer. It's so deep I don't know how I could ever be convinced otherwise, but at the same time I really don't want to believe that. What a mess. What a ridiculous effing mess. It really is a great stupid cosmic joke.

 

So yeah, I don't know what I even want to say. I'm just getting it out there. This is just one part of me - the victim grieving the loss of a life that never really got started. If I had had just 5 good years, I could've at least had that to go on. But then again if I'd had that I might be grieving more. I don't want to be a victim, I hate myself for it. But in withdrawal I often have waves of it, like being a vulnerable child. That's basically what we are, as someone above mentioned. Scared kids inside.

 

Seeing the number of deaths on here lately shook me though. I know it's better to be alive and miserable than having died as a result of this trauma. That would just be the worst, especially for those left behind. So if nothing else, there's that. If I have to live miserably, that's just what I have to do. Suicide could just lead to an even worse psychological place and for a longer time (ever had a bad LSD trip? Yeah, I don't believe your suffering disappears with physical death. It needs to be resolved or else you'll keep incarnating until it is. So that halts that option).

 

Sorry for this self-indulgent crap. Anyone into astrology? I found out a while ago that my sun (gemini - duality, two personalities lol) is square my moon (virgo - obsessive order, responsibility). So yeah, makes sense where some of this deep conflict comes from in that respect. I don't know anything anymore, my brain is literally ridiculous. Hope you're all coping well today x

[TreeElf]

Notes Tuesday 09/10/18

 

9.00 - surge of emotions on waking (it's a few days before my period which is always the worst for this), anger, fear, depression. Crying spell.

10.00  - took Prozac 5mg, fish oils and collostrum

11.00 - 17.00 - spent day in bed but online too much. Talked to my sister on the phone and ended up getting overwhelmed with all the talking. Heart pounding, anxiety after. Rapid mood swings, from depression, deep fear, to maniacal laughing at something, or even some kind of happiness. Which confuses and disorientates me. Mild skin itchiness, tinnitus, ear throbbing. Random memories popping into my consciousness.

All day - ominous ruminations. Realising at moments how much they have taken over my life. Constant switching beliefs over 'what is happening'. One moment believing I'm damned and a dangerous person who needs to stay away from people, to getting a martyr complex and thinking 'what if I'm supposed to die this way like Jesus' (??), or thinking I must be imagining a spiritual experience that is really not, and vice versa. Constant overlapping, deluded thoughts. More energy than before, less apathy today, but more grief, sadness, and anxiety.

 

I know I should not be considering it yet, but I'm wondering at what point I start thinking about tapering - considering it's been 5 months and I've had a worse wave than I did back then? I could always see some shred of improvement in the waves before, or at least things staying the same. This has definitely changed things, it was worse than anything before and 'something' has flipped that I don't think can recover.

[Altostrata]

What times of day does this itching occur, and where on your body?

 

Please start pursuing non-drug treatments for ruminations, etc.

[TreeElf]

Hi, it's anywhere all over the body, and not so much an itching but a feeling like something might be on me when it isn't. A prickling that I impulsively itch and is irritating. I found a bug on me recently and it was kind of like that, I don't know if my mind has just picked it up out of paranoia. 

 

I've just started the Skype cbt which is the best bet for the mental stuff for now. Also still using breathing/prayer/mantra when it gets really bad as an ongoing therapy. 

[Songbird]

23 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

But I guess I grew attached to that to. I started thinking I could 'have' normal things again. I developed friendships, connections, wrote a book, began a career, did courses, volunteered, started living again. I think, realistically, I need to accept these things are not for me. It's just not my path. I just wish I hadn't managed to fool myself into thinking otherwise.

 

I think you've got this the wrong way around.  You've had those "normal" things, and that means you may be able to have them again, once you've got through a bad patch.  I've had similar kinds of feelings in my bad patches, feeling hopeless, like I'm different, I'm a reject, etc.  Grieving for the life you think you could have had is also very common, both in withdrawal and I guess just life in general.  I had a big crisis two years ago - I was 50 - and after picking up the pieces of that feel like I finally figured out who I really am.  You're only 28 - lots of your life still ahead of you.  I've found it helps to think of life as a learning journey, rather than focussing on "success" and achievements and so on.