SickOfIt: 25 years of Prozac

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Are you wanting to reduce your drug/s?

 

If you are wanting to reduce your drug/s all you need is a doctor who will prescribe what you need.

 

 

[SickOfIt]

Thank you for the great info!

[ShiningLight]

Pregabalin is a nasty sibling to gabapentin. If you want to read a fun gabapentin withdrawal story, read my thread.

 

Spoiler: I don't recommend either.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Are you wanting to reduce your drug/s?

 

Please answer my question.  Thank you.

[SickOfIt]

39 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Are you wanting to reduce your drug/s?

 

Yes! I would like to be free of all drugs.

[SickOfIt]

1 hour ago, ShiningLight said:

Pregabalin is a nasty sibling to gabapentin. If you want to read a fun gabapentin withdrawal story, read my thread.

 

Spoiler: I don't recommend either.

I took gabapentin for a while back to see if it can help with benzo withdrawal. I did not found it effective. The highest dose I took was 1800 mg and it made me very drowsy. If Pregabalin can replace the benzos then that would be good, but I can't say that I am very hopeful.

[ChessieCat]

39 minutes ago, SickOfIt said:

If Pregabalin can replace the benzos then that would be good, but I can't say that I am very hopeful.

 

Only a very few medical professionals know/understand about withdrawal/adverse reactions from psychiatric drugs, which is why SA exists.

 

Drugs come with side effects.

 

From https://www.drugs.com/sfx/lyrica-side-effects.html

 

Quote

 

Common side effects of Lyrica include: infection, ataxia, blurred vision, constipation, diplopia, dizziness, drowsiness, fatigue, headache, peripheral edema, tremor, weight gain, visual field loss, accidental injury, and xerostomia. Other side effects include: abnormal gait, abnormality in thinking, amnesia, arthralgia, asthenia, cognitive dysfunction, confusion, edema, neuropathy, sinusitis, speech disturbance, vertigo, visual disturbance, myasthenia, amblyopia, increased appetite, and twitching.

 

 

[Shep]

13 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

 

Yes! I would like to be free of all drugs.

 

13 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

 If Pregabalin can replace the benzos then that would be good, but I can't say that I am very hopeful.

 

Since your goal is to be drug free, instead of continuing to replace one drug for another (which only serves to keep you on the drugging merry-go-round), why not try some non-drug coping techniques?

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Are you currently taking any supplements? We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

I would try a bit of magnesium to see if that helps before adding in another drug. 

[ChessieCat]

 

23 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

So what can be suggested when the doctor keeps increasing the dosage and / or adding another drug to the cocktail? Do we ignore doctors orders and / or look for a different doctor?

 

We need to de-in"doctor"inate ourselves.

 

You've been a member here since October 2016.  I'm surprised that you are still expecting that drugs will fix things.

 

I suggest you watch these videos, especially:  #3 What is Medication Spellbinding?

 

Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ChessieCat

[SickOfIt]

I need to get rid of Prozac and Remeron. I will start with Remeron then taper the Prozac.

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Is there a reason you are going to taper Remeron first?  If yes, what is that reason?

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What doses of Remeron and Prozac are you currently taking?

[Shep]

4 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

I need to get rid of Prozac and Remeron. I will start with Remeron then taper the Prozac.

 

Please read this before you taper:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Pay close attention to the concept of "brakes versus accelerators." 

 

If Remeron helps with sleep, you'll want to taper it last. 

 

Please list the time(s) of day you take each of your drugs and the dose. 

[SickOfIt]

1 pm: Prozac 40 mg + Clonazepam 0.125 mg

1 am: Remeron 15 mg

 

I don't sleep well at night and I have very little energy during the day.

 

My plan is to cut the Prozac to 30 mg, and if my sleep does not improve, then maybe increase the Remeron to 30 mg to help with sleep, then continue tapering the Prozac.

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

My plan is to cut the Prozac to 30 mg,

Deceasing Prozac from 40mg to 30mg is a 25% decrease, far in excess of the 10% every 4 weeks we recommend, and  putting you in risk of withdrawal symptoms in addition to your present problems.  You might want to consider cutting the Prozac much more slowly.

[SickOfIt]

I decreased the Prozac to 30 mg in October and then to 25 mg in November.

My depression and anxiety symptoms are worse but I expected that, and 0.125 mg of clonazepam taken as needed is helping.

What I did not expect is what appears to be a new symptom: tinnitus.

It started in November and seems to be getting worse instead of better.

I am thinking of going back to 40 mg Prozac and then stay on it for while and see if it helps the tinnitus before considering tapering again.

Is tinnitus a common withdrawal symptom? Other than reinstating, is there anything that I can do to make it go away?

[ChessieCat]

On 10/1/2020 at 8:35 AM, Gridley said:

Deceasing Prozac from 40mg to 30mg is a 25% decrease, far in excess of the 10% every 4 weeks we recommend, and  putting you in risk of withdrawal symptoms in addition to your present problems.  You might want to consider cutting the Prozac much more slowly.

 

It is better to reduce at a slower rate than have to rely on a benzo to help cope with symptoms.

 

1 hour ago, SickOfIt said:

I am thinking of going back to 40 mg Prozac

 

When updosing it is better to make small increases than to risk taking too much.  Jumping back up to 40mg from 30mg after being on it for ~8(?) weeks (I'm assuming that you reduced at the start of October) could make things worse.

 

We need better information to be provided in your drug signature so that we can see your drug history at a glance.

 

Please edit your drug signature and state:

 

Drug name:  dose, date; dose, date; dose, date;

 

for each drug so that we can see the reductions you have made.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

You might find that increasing by 1mg or 2mg might be enough to reduce your withdrawal symptoms.  Because of Prozac's long half life you would stay on that dose for at least 2 weeks and then reassess.

 

Please let us know how you are doing.

[SickOfIt]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

You might find that increasing by 1mg or 2mg might be enough to reduce your withdrawal symptoms.  Because of Prozac's long half life you would stay on that dose for at least 2 weeks and then reassess.

I only have 20 and 10 mg capsules so the smallest jump I can do is 5 mg using 10 mg on alternating days.

I can then jump from 25 mg to 30 mg for the next 2 weeks and then reassess.

[ChessieCat]

Please see the instructions in this topic about what we need to see in your drug signature:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

The drug signature needs to be a history of your drugs, start date and then dates (not just month) with the doses so that we can see your drug history at a glance and not have to read back through your posts to see the information.  Having the drug signature means that there is less chance of misreading your drug and dose changes.

[ChessieCat]

39 minutes ago, SickOfIt said:

I only have 20 and 10 mg capsules

 

You can make a liquid from the capsule contents.  See Post #1 of this topic:

 

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

[SickOfIt]

I am back to 40 mg Prozac but my anxiety and tinnitus seem to be getting worse.

My psychiatrist increased my Remeron from 15 to 30 but after one week I feel even worse, so tonight I went back to 15.

During the last few months I slowly increased my clonazepam just to be able to function, but it became too difficult so last week I took a leave of absence from work.

Maybe I should just increase the clonazepam back to 1 mg and then start tapering the Remeron and Prozac once I feel better.

At least I know the clonazepam and lorazepam work for my anxiety and maybe they can also help with the tinnitus.

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

It sounds to me like serotonin syndrome.  See the drug interaction below.

 

Have you had your blood pressure checked?  If your blood pressure has increased that may be the cause of the worsening tinnitus.

 

When I was experiencing mild serotonin syndrome from taking 100mg Pristiq my blood pressure increased a lot and so did my tinnitus.  I also felt confused/trouble concentrating and anxious/agitated a lot of the time as well as muscle tightness when walking and sweating even on a cold day.  I also had several times a day when my heart felt like it "flipped".  It may be what others describe as missing a beat.

 

32 minutes ago, SickOfIt said:

then start tapering the Remeron and Prozac once I feel better

 

As I reduced my Pristiq the serotonin syndrome symptoms gradually lessened.  If it is serotonin syndrome then the only solution is to reduce one or both of the drugs which are causing it.

Interactions between your drugs

Major

FLUoxetine

mirtazapine

Applies to: Prozac (fluoxetine), Remeron (mirtazapine)

Using FLUoxetine together with mirtazapine can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

 

Moderate

clonazePAM

FLUoxetine

Applies to: clonazepam, Prozac (fluoxetine)

Using clonazePAM together with FLUoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

 

Moderate

clonazePAM

mirtazapine

Applies to: clonazepam, Remeron (mirtazapine)

Using clonazePAM together with mirtazapine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[SickOfIt]

My blood pressure is a little high but it could because of the anxiety so I don't know.

I am thinking of tapering the Remeron because it does not seem to be helping my sleep anymore.

I sleep fine for 4 hours and then keep waking up for the last 4 hours of the night/morning. 

My mornings are the worse part of the day because I wake up with anxiety and so I take the clonazepam in the morning and by evening I feel better.

Maybe I can take some clonazepam before bed instead of the Remeron.

[SickOfIt]

My doc wants me to increase my Remeron to 30 mg to help with sleep but I tried it for a week and could not take the anxiety so now I am trying to increase the Prozac instead.

I want to get relief from the issues with tinnitus anxiety and sleep but so far nothing seem to help and my doc does not seem to care.

Any suggestions? 

[ShiningLight]

I'm sure you can find this suggestion on here, but one thing that I just started that helped immediately on the first day is sitting  outside or taking a gentle stroll within the first hour of when I wake up, staying out there for half an hour, without my glasses, and soaking up some rays. I did that yesterday at 8:30 am. I was shocked to find at 8:30 pm, I started to get tired! It takes some discipline but is worth it. Also dim overhead lights an hour before bed. 

 

The other thing I recently learned, if your issue is waking up in the middle of the night, is getting a light box. Use the light box 4 hours before you want to go to bed. I saw elsewhere on here that using a light box is too stimulating for some people in withdrawal so be careful.

[SickOfIt]

I asked my doctor if I can stop Remeron and she said sure. 

She did not say to taper so I am a little concerned.

Any thoughts?

[ChessieCat]

If you have been on it for more then 1 month then you will need to taper it.  If you have only been on it short term, ie up to 2 months (it is difficult to see how long from your signature because the year 2018 is included - please clarify your signature so that we can see exactly how long you have been taking Remeron - thank you) then you may be okay to do a fast/er taper.  You will need to listen to your body/symptoms and hold for longer as needed.  You will also need to try to maintain your sleep.  Assuming that it has only been for a short time, if it was me I would stick to 10% reduction to begin with but if after 3 weeks you feel okay than you could try another 10% reduction.

 

If you have been on the drug from longer then the no more than 10% of current dose with at least a 4 week hold is the best way to taper.

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

  Remember:  the idea is to get off a drug with as little discomfort and disruption to your life as possible.

[SickOfIt]

one more month to go for the remeron. nausea is hitting me now. is this common?

[SickOfIt]

A couple of more weeks and I am done with the Remeron.

I would like to start tapering the Prozac next. 

Should I wait a while after I am done with the Remeron before I start tapering the Prozac?

 

 

[Shep]

Yes, I would go into a long hold for a few weeks and give your nervous system some time to rest. 

 

How are you feeling? 

[SickOfIt]

I am still having disrupted sleep during the nights and severe fatigue during the days. 

I have to take a nap just a couple of hours after getting up.

Very little energy or motivation to do much.

I will give it a few weeks before starting tapering the Prozac but I am just sick and tired of everything. 

The only thing that seem to help my anxiety are the benzos. 

The Prozac seem to stopped working many years ago.

[Shep]

Is your sleep getting worse as you taper the Remeron? If so, you may want to stop tapering this drug. As mentioned earlier in your thread, you may want to come off Prozac first. 

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Even if the Remeron isn't helping with sleep, removing it could be making your sleep worse. That may be hard to tell with inconsistent benzo dosing. 

 

12 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

The only thing that seem to help my anxiety are the benzos. 

 

On 2/25/2021 at 2:08 AM, SickOfIt said:

At least I know the clonazepam and lorazepam work for my anxiety and maybe they can also help with the tinnitus.

 

 

When did you start taking lorazepam? Please add this to your signature. Are you still taking both benzos? 

 

To be honest, SickOfit, after re-reading your thread, I'm not sure we're going to be of much assistance to you here. You are switching around drugs, making drastic changes, and removing a sedating drug while still on a stimulating drug. 

 

If I were you, I'd stop tapering completely and work on stabilizing your benzo use. This means taking the same amount every day at the same time(s) of the day. Your nervous system needs stability. It's very hard for people to taper off a cocktail of drugs with inconsistent benzo dosing due to interdose withdrawal and rebound anxiety. 

[SickOfIt]

I am taking 0.5 mg Clonazepam every day at the same time of day since May 2021.

I only take 0.5 mg Lorazepam once or twice a month as needed.

My sleep is the same since tapering the Remeron.

Should I increase the Clonazepam back to 0.75 or 1 mg since sleep was better before I reduced it?

[Shep]

On 9/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, SickOfIt said:

1 pm: Prozac 40 mg + Clonazepam 0.125 mg

1 am: Remeron 15 mg

 

A year ago, you were down to 0.125 mg Clonazepam. And now you're at .5 mg. 

 

And according to your signature, you were at 1 mg and then decreased rapidly at the beginning of the year until May (1 mg - 10+ years; 0.875 - MAR 2021; 0.75 mg - APR 2021; 0.5 mg - MAY 2021).

 

3 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

My sleep is the same since tapering the Remeron.

Should I increase the Clonazepam back to 0.75 or 1 mg since sleep was better before I reduced it?

 

To be honest, Sickofit, I'm not sure what to advise. I wouldn't increase the clonazepam. Increasing benzos works the best within 1 month of the decrease. You were tapering both clonazepam and remeron at the same time in April and May. 

 

This is from your signature:  

Quote

 

Remeron - 15 mg - 5+ years ;14 mg APR 24 2021; 13 mg 5/4; 12 mg 5/14; 11 mg 5/24; 10 mg 6/3; 9 mg 6/13; 8 mg 6/23; 7 mg 7/3; 6 mg 7/13; 5 mg 7/23; 4 mg 8/4; 3 mg 8/12; 2 mg 8/22

Clonazepam  1 mg - 10+ years; 0.875 - MAR 2021; 0.75 mg - APR 2021; 0.5 mg - MAY 2021

 

 

This is way too fast for both of these drugs. 

 

You may want to updose the remeron, since your last reduction was just a few days ago. At this point, you may be looking at kindling, which is damage to the nervous system. Holding may be your best bet for now. 

[SickOfIt]

I am holding for now but I am wondering if I should switch the Prozac and Remeron with a different antidepressant.

Why take two antidepressants that do not work anymore?

Why not try one antidepressant that could work instead?

I have an appointment with my doctor next week so any input would be much appreciated.

[Shep]

4 hours ago, SickOfIt said:

I have an appointment with my doctor next week so any input would be much appreciated.

 

Just re-read your thread, SickOfIt. We've given advice again and again to taper slower, to taper the sedating drug last, to not seek out other drugs to fix the withdrawal problems of your current drugs, to not make large updoses. When you joined the forum 5 years ago, you were on 10 mg Prozac. You're now back to 40 mg. You were almost completely off clonazepam and you're now taking .75 mg. 

 

On 6/1/2019 at 4:40 PM, SickOfIt said:

I have gradually tapered the Prozac then stopped and tried Zoloft. It made no difference. I was also prescribed Gabapentin to help with Benzo withdrawal but again, none of it made any difference. So Finally I got fed up and tapered gabapentin and Zoloft. This was about a month ago. I also am tapering Clonazepam from 1 mg. I am now at 0.25.

 

And you've brought in other drugs against the advice offered here. Our advice is quite simple - taper no faster than 10% a month and taper the sedating drug last. We also don't recommend bringing in new drugs to deal with the withdrawal effects of your current drugs. 

 

If your doctor advices you to switch drugs and you do so, then work with your doctor. This is not what we would advise.