marconyc: introduction

[marconyc]

@manymoretodays Hi, hope you're doing well. I have a question for you and the other moderators about late withdrawal: do you have a rough idea of how many patients who taper according to the SA protocol experience late-appearing, delayed withdrawal after they have successfully completed their taper? That's one of my main concerns, and I think it's an important question for people who are considering a taper. Also, do you know of any factors that those people who experience delayed withdrawal have in common? For example, I'm wondering whether people who experience withdrawal along the way might be less likely to experience delayed withdrawal, as they are showing signs during their taper of their nervous system adjusting to the reduced dose. 

 

This is the kind of research that professionals in the field should have done. 

[marconyc]

Made my last cut on Sat, to 571mgpw of sertraline. Three days later. I felt some withdrawal last night, I think--a little thumping heart unrelated to any particular stressor, some irritability, and some insomnia. Not terrible but noticeable. Nevertheless, I got 7 hours of sleep and feel pretty good this morning. 

[manymoretodays]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:48 AM, marconyc said:

@manymoretodays Hi, hope you're doing well. I have a question for you and the other moderators about late withdrawal: do you have a rough idea of how many patients who taper according to the SA protocol experience late-appearing, delayed withdrawal after they have successfully completed their taper? That's one of my main concerns, and I think it's an important question for people who are considering a taper. Also, do you know of any factors that those people who experience delayed withdrawal have in common? For example, I'm wondering whether people who experience withdrawal along the way might be less likely to experience delayed withdrawal, as they are showing signs during their taper of their nervous system adjusting to the reduced dose. 

 

This is the kind of research that professionals in the field should have done. 

Hi there marconyc.  I'm doing good.  Pacing myself.  Often more relaxed than not.  My computer however is sick.  Still hoping it's something to do with my internet provider.....it's taking forever to get definitive answers though...or so it seems.                                      Okay.  Well me thinks that kind of research goes in tandem with the rest.....I mean a lot gets written and then trialed in the deprescribing arena of psych drugs.  The type of data you are looking for I have not seen.  Hard data anyway.  Great question.                                      Lot's of factors too, that might be at play.  No idea if with symptoms during a harm reduction taper leads to less delayed onset WD, or protracted withdrawal.  And maybe differences in "delayed onset WD" and "protracted WD" too, by definition.                                  Other factors at play in WD symptoms that I've seen mentioned are: age and duration of time on medication or medications.   Probably more factors too.  Off hand, I don't have data.  Gawk, I wish I did AND I hope we will some day.....sooner rather than later.  I do believe we are getting there.                                                                  And then, do I hear you postulating,  that perhaps for some.....maintaining on the lowest possible dose may be best?  And of course lowest possible dose may have nothing to do with so called "therapeutic doses"......I think Chessie Cat posted a lot that made that clear.  And not what you were asking.                                      Again, great question(s).  Might be categorized as " factors to consider before and while tapering" ....do you think?  And then perhaps a call for more data in this area?          Solly for the run on, non spacing, reply.  My droid....we draw closer at this tme of internet connection illness.....😊  L, p, h, and growth.  mmt.  And cheers to individual choice, informed choice, around the drugs we swallow!!!!  Or choose not to!  I'm getting radical. A little. ❤️

Edited August 1, 2023 by manymoretodays
Tried some spacing for readability

[manymoretodays]

I was working out your dose strength too.  Lost the reply though.  Testing.  Okay well, editing in.  I came up with a current dose of sertraline being 185 mg or mgai, based on a weight of 585 mg or mgpw.  This from 200 mgai sertraline weighing 630 mgpw.  AIC was .317.  And.  I have to run now.  Can elaborate further soon.  I hope.  If needed.

Edited August 1, 2023 by manymoretodays

[marconyc]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi there marconyc.  I'm doing good.  Pacing myself.  Often more relaxed than not.  My computer however is sick.  Still hoping it's something to do with my internet provider.....it's taking forever to get definitive answers though...or so it seems.                                      Okay.  Well me thinks that kind of research goes in tandem with the rest.....I mean a lot gets written and then trialed in the deprescribing arena of psych drugs.  The type of data you are looking for I have not seen.  Hard data anyway.  Great question.                                      Lot's of factors too, that might be at play.  No idea if with symptoms during a harm reduction taper leads to less delayed onset WD, or protracted withdrawal.  And maybe differences in "delayed onset WD" and "protracted WD" too, by definition.                                  Other factors at play in WD symptoms that I've seen mentioned are: age and duration of time on medication or medications.   Probably more factors too.  Off hand, I don't have data.  Gawk, I wish I did AND I hope we will some day.....sooner rather than later.  I do believe we are getting there.                                                                  And then, do I hear you postulating,  that perhaps for some.....maintaining on the lowest possible dose may be best?  And of course lowest possible dose may have nothing to do with so called "therapeutic doses"......I think Chessie Cat posted a lot that made that clear.  And not what you were asking.                                      Again, great question(s).  Might be categorized as " factors to consider before and while tapering" ....do you think?  And then perhaps a call for more data in this area?          Solly for the run on, non spacing, reply.  My droid....we draw closer at this tme of internet connection illness.....😊  L, p, h, and growth.  mmt.  And cheers to individual choice, informed choice, around the drugs we swallow!!!!  Or choose not to!  I'm getting radical. A little. ❤️

Thank you for the thoughtful reply @manymoretodays

 

I'm not sure how low I'll go. I don't have a predetermined goal in mind other than to continue reducing slowly while still being able to function. I'm reducing in order to have greater access to my feelings and reduce emotional blunting, to minimize side effects (sexual side effects and weight gain), and to minimize my exposure to the drug over the long-term so as to avoid tardive dysphoria and poop-out. I don't know what that will look like for me. Either way, though, my question about delayed withdrawal remains a concern, because I'm assuming I could reduce too far without discontinuing completely and still experience delayed withdrawal. I think I'm still a ways off from having to cross this bridge, but at some point, I'm going to have to decide whether to keep going or stop where I am with the taper, and I am afraid of a late-onset type of withdrawal that many people seem to experience. It's scary to think that you could taper without too many bumps over the course of several years and STILL get hit with massive withdrawal when you think you're in the clear. So I'm looking for any information on this topic that I can. 

[marconyc]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

I was working out your dose strength too.  Lost the reply though.  Testing.  Okay well, editing in.  I came up with a current dose of sertraline being 185 mg or mgai, based on a weight of 585 mg or mgpw.  This from 200 mgai sertraline weighing 630 mgpw.  AIC was .317.  And.  I have to run now.  Can elaborate further soon.  I hope.  If needed.

I'm actually down to 571 mgpw as of this past Sat. I believe that's 181mgai. I just updated my signature.

Edited August 1, 2023 by marconyc

[marconyc]

Slept well last night but had strange, vivid dreams, including a couple of nightmares. This seems to be a pattern for me and some indicator that I'm experiencing withdrawal. I made my most recent cut on Sat, so it's been 4 days. My WD symptoms seem to appear during the first week after a cut, anywhere from 2-5 days after.

[manymoretodays]

Okay.  And I get the same dose of 181 mgai with a weight of 571 mgpw.  Yay!  Post the dose strength, dose, mgai in your signature please.  That will be most helpful.  Thankyou.                           And okay on symptoms, as it sounds like they improve after day 5.  I am hoping so.  Nightmares no fun.  Just vivid dreams I don't mind.  Nightmares and dreams that plague me however, are not fun.  I think you are off to a good start wirh the sertraline taper.  And....it's nice to have you around for awhile.  L, p, h, and g.  mmt

[marconyc]

26 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Okay.  And I get the same dose of 181 mgai with a weight of 571 mgpw.  Yay!  Post the dose strength, dose, mgai in your signature please.  That will be most helpful.  Thankyou.                           And okay on symptoms, as it sounds like they improve after day 5.  I am hoping so.  Nightmares no fun.  Just vivid dreams I don't mind.  Nightmares and dreams that plague me however, are not fun.  I think you are off to a good start wirh the sertraline taper.  And....it's nice to have you around for awhile.  L, p, h, and g.  mmt

Will do! thanks

[marconyc]

After a month at 181 mgai, I decided to make another very small cut. I'm feeling relatively stable. The most difficult WD symptom I'm experiencing right now is insomnia. I have a lot of trouble falling asleep. Sometimes it takes me hours. On average, I'm probably getting 6 hours a night, which isn't bad, but some nights it's only 4. 

[Blossom71]

Hi @marconyc

Seems we have both been here a while but our paths have never crossed. I’ve just binge reread your thread.  I’m also tapering sertraline so thought I’d drop in and cheer you on x

[marconyc]

10 hours ago, Blossom71 said:

Hi @marconyc

Seems we have both been here a while but our paths have never crossed. I’ve just binge reread your thread.  I’m also tapering sertraline so thought I’d drop in and cheer you on x

Hi @Blossom71, thank you for stopping by. I just looked at your signature and see that you've been really successful in your sertraline taper. Well done--that gives me hope. I'll read through your thread in the coming weeks to learn more and cheer you on as well.

[marconyc]

It's been a week since the last cut, which was very small. I'm at 178mg of sertraline, down from 200 a few months ago. So far, so good. I've experienced some trouble falling asleep, but that's pretty much gone. I do need to do a relaxation exercise before bed and stretch my muscles a bit, but I'm getting 8 hours again. There is also some decrease in stress tolerance that is more general. But one of the benefits of the decreased stress tolerance is that I don't ignore signals that my life is out of balance. I find it harder to ignore when I'm working too much or not giving myself enough down time. That's one of the reasons I wanted to taper in the first place: I felt that the high dose was allowing me to override my body's needs. 

 

For vitamins and supplements, I'm taking fish oil, magnesium, and a probiotic. I've only been taking half the recommended daily dose of magnesium and might try increasing it to the full dose. Maybe it'll help with falling asleep as well.

 

I've always relied on strenuous exercise for stress relief. Mostly it still works, but sometimes after a cut, when I'm in withdrawal, too much intense exercise revs up my nervous system and I then have trouble downshifting. So I need to keep an eye on that.

 

Also, I'm doing intermittent fasting, which means I don't eat from about 6pm to 10am. I need to be careful about eating enough calories from nutrient-dense foods during the day, because if I'm depleted, it can make whatever withdrawal I'm feeling even worse. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi there.

Good on sleep, yay!

Paying attention to stress and well, everything.......another good.

Magnesium has always been very calming for me, so I hope it helps with your relax as well.

Just pay attention, like you are doing and this does seem to be going well. 

 

I'll give you a couple links to topics that you may or may not have seen......LOL, it's like a tic sometimes, find and give link to topic!  Just me.  There is always interesting stuff in the topics, some have evolved with time too......

Fasting

Exercise.....Do more, do less, do nothing? What worked for you?

 

Best to you, and thanks for the updates too.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[marconyc]

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi there.

Good on sleep, yay!

Paying attention to stress and well, everything.......another good.

Magnesium has always been very calming for me, so I hope it helps with your relax as well.

Just pay attention, like you are doing and this does seem to be going well. 

 

I'll give you a couple links to topics that you may or may not have seen......LOL, it's like a tic sometimes, find and give link to topic!  Just me.  There is always interesting stuff in the topics, some have evolved with time too......

Fasting

Exercise.....Do more, do less, do nothing? What worked for you?

 

Best to you, and thanks for the updates too.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Thank you, MMT!

[marconyc]

I'm due to make my next cut but I'm thinking I should wait because our dog, who is 16, is showing signs of serious decline and we may have to say goodbye soon. We had to say goodbye to our other dog, who was 15, last summer and it was really rough. 

[marconyc]

We had to say goodbye to our dog yesterday. Second time this year we had to say goodbye to a beloved dog. We have no pets now and the house feels empty. I feel bad saying that because our young daughter is an absolute gift but we had those dogs for 16 years and I miss them so much. 

[redkite]

Hi, Just read your post about your dog going. Its sooooo awfull when are little pets die. They are are best friends really and always there for us. You will feel it, Try to remember the lovely relationship that you had with him. I got lots of photos of one of my pets when they died and just cried my eyes out for weeks. I also got some pet grief counselling free on the phone which was very good. My cat was my best mate for 17 years and I still feel the loss now. My thoughts are with you. Be kind to yourself and let your self grief. Take care Redkite

[marconyc]

4 minutes ago, redkite said:

Hi, Just read your post about your dog going. Its sooooo awfull when are little pets die. They are are best friends really and always there for us. You will feel it, Try to remember the lovely relationship that you had with him. I got lots of photos of one of my pets when they died and just cried my eyes out for weeks. I also got some pet grief counselling free on the phone which was very good. My cat was my best mate for 17 years and I still feel the loss now. My thoughts are with you. Be kind to yourself and let your self grief. Take care Redkite

Thank you for the kind and wise words. I'm sorry for your loss too.

Edited September 28, 2023 by marconyc

[marconyc]

I just made a very small cut, down to 175mgai of sertraline from 178mgai. I was at 200mgai when I began my taper in May of this year. 

[marconyc]

Just made another small cut, to 541mgpw of sertraline, which is 171mgai. Feeling okay. No major withdrawal symptoms yet and it's been about 5 days. 

[marconyc]

Just made another small cut, to 530mgpw of sertraline. Feeling okay. No major withdrawal symptoms yet and it's been about 7 days.