Nikki: hi, my rundown with ADs

[mammaP]

Hi Nikki, sorry you are not well. Personally I think you should leave the psych meds as they are until

you are over the UTI and the anti biotics are finished. Anti B's always make me feel worse than what

they are prescribed for and rarely finish the course! Plus UTI can affect emotions and make people confused.

 

If I remember right, Alto thought the serzone was causing the most problems so maybe that is the one to

concentrate getting off, you have already started the taper so would carry on tapering that one. It

is the one that causes most problems and as you know is banned in some countries.

 

I hope you feel better soon Nikki. You really do need to look after your body and let it have the rest it

needs to fight the infection. Mamma hugs. x

[Nikki]

thank you Mama and love mamahugs    This is a mega amount of antibiotics  2000mgs. a day.  I hope to God they work.

It is validating to know that other people feel lousy on them too.  I never really ever felt good on AB's but it is worse since being on AD's......sounds like I am reciting the alphabet of rotten drugs.  AB and D's.

 

Hugs

[Zoe]

HI Nikki- MammaP is right about how  UTI's can make one confused. And you have had this one for awhile. Hang in there honey & try to get as must rest as you can.

 

Hugs & prayers

[tezza]

Hoping you feel better soon!

[Nikki]

I am going to tell TJMaxx that I can only work on Sundays.  I need Saturdays off.  They have a new policy there....you have to give them 21 days notice to change the schedule.  Unbelievable.  I never wanted to work on saturdays, they just added the days on and I never said anything.

 

For the next two weekends I am on for Saturdays and Sundays.  I am a wreck over it because by Saturday I am in deep trouble with fatigue.

 

With these drugs fatigue is not a normal type of fatigue.  I am so messed up from drugs at this point it inevitably leads to extremely low moods.

 

I have got to get over this UTI and I may have to take another medication if this doesn't work. Waiting for  the culture/sensitivity results which I should get today.

 

God please help all of us going thru misery......

 

Love all of you and thank you so much:)

[Nikki]

Thank God I stopped the antibiotics today and there is a world of difference in how I feel.  It was a three week ordeal with AB's.

 

This last batch knocked me for a loop.

 

Now if psych meds would do the same.....make us feel better once we are off of them

[NewMe]

Awe Nikki - you can do it.

 

Hang in there.

 

There is a lot of evidence supporting the inflammatory/histamine response and link to anixety.

 

I did not see the type of ABs you are taking - some are notorious for affecting mood and anxiety. Ciproflaxin is one that caused me (and many others) much anxiety. 

 

Gut bacteria (microbiome) affects the mind psychologically in terms of mood and anxiety. Antibiotics often affect the gut - along w a histamine response from a UTI it's not unusual (IMO) that you would feel ick.

 

I can relate as I was on four strong ABs about a yr ago which was needed, but really tough on my anxiety. I took probiotics in an attempt to restore intestinal balance from AB wipeout - but it was pretty out of whack.  

[Nikki]

Thank you for your response.  I had a shot of Rocefin in the ER followed by Macrodantin and followed by Keflex.

 

The cipro and levaquine make my anxiety off the charts.

 

Not doing well this morning....mornings are bad for me.  Anxious depressed tired.

 

I was just writing to Mamap about a very slow taper.  In her signature she wrote that with each drop, she felt better.

 

Are you experiencing the same results with a micro taper?

[mammaP]

Hi Nikki, I'm glad you felt better after stopping the anti b's, it will take some time for your

body to recover so be patient. You should take some sick leave from TJMaxx to help recover!

A weekend of rest will go a long way to helping you feel better. 

 

Now for the ADs, I'll reply to your question on my thread here. 

 

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day

 

Mama P in speaking with my daughter this morning she told me I can do this (taper) and that the drugs are the problem.

 

In your signature you say you felt better and better with each drop.  I remember Rhi saying this too a long time back.

 

Can you talk about that.  My fear is that it is going to be hell again.  My mind is taking me down the road of 'here we go years of hell' in trying to get off this stuff.'

 

Did you stick to 10%?  I am concerned that I may have to stick to less than 10%....

 

Thanks and so happy for this lovely change in your living arrangements and life......Good move:)

 

As always Hugs

 

 

Nikki, you have to stop fearing what might be.  You will no doubt have some waves along the way but will you

ever be better while taking the meds?  I doubt it very much. I was very ill and housebound for about 5 or 6 years.

My house was a dump and infested with mice I couldn't control.  I had no feelings and wasn't particularly depressed

but severely anhedonic, utterly exhausted and in severe pain all the time. 

 I looked at the leaflet in my effexor pack and realised that it could be why I was so ill. I have medical conditions but

knew there was something else and thought I was seriously ill and my cancer/s had come back but of course all tests

showed that was not so. All the time it was that drug.

 

I started to taper it but didn't stick to the 10% rule, I can't remember now how many beads I reduced by to start but I wish

I had been here first and done it the 10% way.  I suddenly noticed that I was doing I hadn't done for a long time but was 

not expecting to feel better  while tapering, I thought that wouldn't happen until I'd been off for a while. 

 

I went into withdrawal because I went too fast and stopped too soon. I could have avoided that if I'd stuck to 10% of the 

current dose.  Keep at it Nikki, hold between drops, If you get withdrawal symptoms, give them time to fade and don't be

tempted to updose too quickly.  I think you are right to consider a micro taper but you have to stick with it.  

You will get there in the end. I have been here almost a whole year and it has passed. Time goes by at a steady rate 

and the end of your drugs will come one day. I am certain that you will feel better along the way too.

[Nikki]

Thank you for explaining your tapering process.  It must have been such a relief for you to start to feel better as you weaned.

 

Mornings are the worst part of the day.  As the day progresses I come out of it.

 

Today I knew that I had to do this and I can and will do this.  But I am going to give myself a little bit of time before I start.

 

The thing I have to count my blessings about is that I get up every day and do what I have to do.  I have never been housebound by WD and I run a business.  My interactions with people are very pleasant and I like it.  I function at a very high level no matter how bad things get with Psych meds. 

 

Your life is full of some wonderful changes.......which you deserve.

 

Thank you for all your kind support

 

PS

 

Jemima just sent me a PM...I posted a link to a site where a woman was talking about her WD from pristiq and she mentioned how helpful SA was.  Jemima said she clicked on the link and there was a warning.  She said she hid it so no one else would click on it.  Thank goodness no one did.  It was a site like Strawberry and Giak had...their own blog.  Go figure....

[Jemima]

Let me explain that there was a link in the post Nikki is talking about that had a possible virus attached.  My Norton Anti-virus program stopped my computer from getting infected, but just in case there are members who don't have anti-virus software, I hid the whole enchilada and alerted Alto.

[Nikki]

enchilada it's good you caught it

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Nikki, thanks for your sweet message so someone can correct my mistakes. First about the logistics of Serzone. I read the whole PI, and I don't see any reason for you not to make a water solution. If it is a really hard tablet, you might want to purchase a washable, non porous mortar and pestle, maybe from Amazon. Otherwise, I smash it well with a spoon on glossy cardboard and slide the dust into a ramekin, tiny teacup, anything that has a curved bottom so the drug doesn't go in the crack. Then I use a 10 ml syringe to add 1ml of water for every mg of drug. I let it sit a bit and then I stir it with the syringe that I am drawing up into. I draw up all my syringes for the day. The water will not be clear. Mostly it is full of fillers...the vast amount of the tablet is fillers. I stir them around while I am drawing up the liquid...if the fillers are evenly distributed the undissolved drug will be as well. There is a long thread that expresses this in detail. I think that drug is nasty, I would start a cautious taper as soon as I had my supplies and mindset together. It is tough to go through severe adverse effects and withdrawal at the same time, but as long as you understand that is what's happening, you will be fine.

 

As far as coping, different personalities need different things. I am the opposite from MammaP...it helps me to see this as one of the hardest things that I will face in my life, and most days will be awful. I can handle being pleasantly surprised . There's not a lot that I can't deal with lying on the sofa, lol. It is so hard parenting and working though....so to keep going, for you

1. I would get support and a plan, maybe even with a therapist, for coping with your daughter's move. I say that because my family has been gone this week...I am not ready for an empty nest, and I think that will be tough for you as well.

2. Make an insomnia plan. To me, I have 3 kinds - quiet insomnia, where I can rest well, and that's what I do; busy brain insomnia-I listen to talk radio and rest; restless insomnia-get out of bed before it becomes a brain habit and do something comfy, like reading magazines, nothing activating like tackling household chores or interesting reading. I think a 100% dark room is important. I use a Tempurpedic sleep mask.

3. Get up at the same time everyday. Every time I have slipped towards depression since I went off my AD has been linked to not being in bed or out of bed when I should be.

4. I study withdrawal and mental illness as much as I can. Know your enemy!

5. All the lifestyle things we discuss every day.

6. Gratefullness every day that I have the amazing opportunity to escape the clutches of psych medication and someday resume my life's purposes. As you have seen, hardly anyone in health care understands this. BUT I do not expect to be fulfilling my life purposes while doing this.

7. Try to deal with my life issues as if they were the cause of all this.

[Meimeiquest]

Sorry for all the mistakes above...I just wanted to add that dosing in smaller, more frequent doses helps me have fewer problems with sedation from my drugs. Don't know if that applies to others.

[Meimeiquest]

A little chatty here...the transition from tablet to liquid is a rather uncontrolled drop. You inevitably are losing some drug, but it won't matter once you have adjusted and mix the meds the same way every day. So don't try to make a drop at the same time you switch to liquid, and don't think it will always be like that on a liquid. It's sort of like the time when a spaceship passes behind the moon.

[Nikki]

You are a Peach Thank you for taking the time to tell me about you and what you have done.

 

I did speak to the compounding pharmacy today and they can make a liquid and it seems affordable ($55/month).  That works for me.  Because I am on 50mgs. I tole the pharmacist I will take a 25mg. tablet and compound the other 25mgs.

 

Alto just posted to me that alot of people here do have success with the suspensions even if they are partially water soluble and that sounds good to.

 

It does help to see that there are ways around these pills and that tiny drops are possible this way.  I have to laugh at the "insomnia plan"..... but I get it.  Serzone is sedating so I guess sleep or lack thereof may be the first symptom.

 

I called TJMaxx and said I was not well and I would not be in this weekend.  It feels wonderful to know that I can have the weekend to myself and my Big Plan on Saturday afternoon is to lay down on my sofa and rest/sleep.  I am half dead.  Did this to myself and now I must undo it all.....drugs and overwork.

 

This weekend my daughter is in Orlando so I will be alone with the dog...my neighbors asked me to watch their two little dogs....they are so sweet and tiny.

 

MQ the serzone/nefazadone was very bad for me.  It was a huge mistake which I sanctioned.  After three weeks of battling e.coli I am dead tired.  Antibiotics take alot out of me an affect my nervous system.

 

Thank you so much for your replies

[Meimeiquest]

I think you'll have at least a good-enough taper...thankfully you haven't been on it long.

[Zoe]

Good for you Nikki- telling them you couldn't work. You do need some time to recharge. Enjoy the little doggies- there is nothing better to make one smile. So good to hear that you have a plan. Thank God  these dear people are here to help you through this.

 

Hugs & prayers

[Nikki]

Hi Zoe.....

 

Thank you for checking up on me....

 

I am not feeling well at all.  I have Broken Record Syndrome ~ AD's can cause this insidious syndrome

 

Why can I figure out everyone else problems and not my own?????  I keep thinking if I get 10 hours of sleep I will feel better and it hasn't happened yet.  I am worried I still have the infection which will mean more antibiotics...

 

I will do a dip stick test tomorrow.  If it is positive it is back to the ER.....I just can't do it today.

 

I think the Serzone is Voodoo medicine.  Could be a backlash from getting off Celexa too.  Alot of anxiety.

 

And then as members pointed out here.....Serzone should not be mixed with Imipramine.  Why don't the doctors know that?

 

And get this....the psych nurse told me to take Xanax for anxiety.  Another red warning.  I told her and she said 'it's just a small amount it shouldn't be a problem.

 

I did go to a Psych when I was tapering Lexapro and he opened his computer and took out a book to do research right there so he made sure about drug interactions.  I had to commend him for that.  He did the right thing and didn't look like an idiot doing it.

 

My hope is that as I slowly drop the Nefazadone(Serzone) I will feel better.  Will go to drugstore tomorrow to purchase supplies and will check with compounding pharmacy on the price for liquid again.

 

Hugs to all.

[Nikki]

The dip stick was negative positive.....so I took myself to the ER was able to see a Doctor there who I trust.

 

He did two urine tests and they were negative and is sending a culture out.

 

I have a yeast infection in the urethra.  Lovely from the mega doses of antibiotics.  He gave me diflucan and I have a Rx for some more.  Have taken them before.....they are one of the few medicine that really help.  Antifungal.

 

Hells Bells this has been some ride.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This afternoon I have had adrenaline dumps one after another.  This is crazy.  I was so much better off on Celexa and Imipramine....why why why did the doctor and I do this to myself?

 

I am at my wit's end.  Please don't yell.....but I have had the thought of swapping out Celexa for Serzone to end this misery.

 

Is that a crazy idea.....would it work and do you think I may just start feeling better once I reduce the Serzone.

 

Sincerely,

Losing my mind in Jupiter

[Petunia]

I am at my wit's end.  Please don't yell.....but I have had the thought of swapping out Celexa for Serzone to end this misery.

 

Is that a crazy idea.....would it work and do you think I may just start feeling better once I reduce the Serzone.

 

 

Hi Nikki,

 

You seem to be going through another rough patch at the moment, these things happen along the journey away from psyche meds, don't let it cause you to lose sight of the big picture again.

 

Over time, the drugs begin to cause more and more damage throughout the whole body as they effect more of the body systems.  I know you want to 'feel better' right now.  We all do.  That's what got us into trouble in the first place, wanting to be able to take a pill to make all the pain go away.

 

That thought about celexa being able to end your misery isn't the truth, its another trick your 'spellbound' mind is playing.  I don't know if you will feel better when you reduce the Serzone, but I do know that the more you are able to reduce the level of these toxic chemicals going into your body, the better chance it will have of recovering.

 

I also feel like I'm losing my mind much of the time and desperately want to feel better.  But I'm no longer going to do things which harm me in order to get some temporary relief.

 

Stick to the plan Nikki and continue with the current taper.  Have another look here for some non-drug ways to try and feel better:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

What I've found is that what may work for a while, suddenly doesn't and that something which previously didn't help at all, starts to work, so its a good idea to go back and try things again.

 

At the moment my non-drug method of choice is ginger tea.  When I get to the point where I'm feeling like I'm about to explode from the sheer intensity of awfulness, I take a few deep, calming breaths and slowly walk into the kitchen and make myself some ginger tea.  I try and focus on each step of the process, like a ritual.  I make it so that it will taste nice, with a little lemon and some honey.  Then I go and sit back down with my tea and take my time drinking it.  I pay attention to the taste and sensation of the ginger.

 

For those few moments that I'm able to direct my attention to something pleasant, I'm getting a break from my own unpleasant emotions and it seems to break the ongoing pattern, for a while at least.

 

Try and find some little things like this that you can easily do, which will bring a few moments of peace or pleasure.  Usually things which stimulate our physical senses in some way can work.  Then you will have something you can do to temporarily feel better, rather than fantasizing about drugs.

 

(hugs)

 

Petu.

[Meimeiquest]

Sweet Nikki, I wonder if some probiotics might help??? They would at least help you recover from the antibiotics. Hugs from me too!

[EternalOptimist]

Hi Nikki

You've stopped by to give me support and though I don't have any wisdom to impart want to let you know I'm rooting for you.

AB's can be tough on our challenged nervous systems. Hope the probiotics help if you use them. I find changing my thoughts and remembering better times help, saying I'll get there again. Course, it's easier when feel a little better. Best to you.

EO

[Nikki]

I was chatting online with the Nurse who started the Paxil WD site on FB.  She looked up Serzone and Imipramine and like you pointed out there is a red label warning not to mix.

 

I am iil from Serzone.  Nausea (losing weight), urinary retention, anxious, melancholy (depressed).

Anxiety is very bad actually.  Fatigued.  Intrusive thoughts.  And of course scared.

 

The Imipramine which I have been on for years is not working at all for anxiety.  It hasn't worked for probably a few years.

 

Yesterday and this has happened before I have adrenaline dumps while laying down and once while sleeping.

 

I am on 50mgs. Serzone   and    50mgs. Imipramine.

 

I have been coping with anxiety and depression for so long now.  It's particularly bad in the mornings.

 

Angela (Paxil WD Group) said I am in "poop out from Imipramine" which I know.

The Serzone is making me feel unwell.  Because of the mix?  Or because it is just making me feel lousy on it's own?  I have no relief from anxiety due to this.

 

I need to do something this week to get off of this poison.  I know that Rhi and a few others taper a few drugs at the same time.

 

really need your input.................Alto what is your suggestion.

 

Hugs

 

NOTE:  Topic moved from Tapering discussion - Jemima

[Nikki]

Love you guys

 

I need to start my taper this week.  Having adrenaline dumps.....I posted over on tapering....can you take a look.

 

What to taper first.  Meds not supposed to me mixed.  Poop out on Imipramine didn't realize it for quite a while now.

Anxiety bad.

 

I won't inject Celexa....Yes I do take probiotics and yesterday the diflucan started to do it's job.  Have to take another pill today for yeast.

 

Please be patient with me folks I am at my wit's end.

[NewMe]

Thank you for your response.  I had a shot of Rocefin in the ER followed by Macrodantin and followed by Keflex.

 

The cipro and levaquine make my anxiety off the charts.

 

Not doing well this morning....mornings are bad for me.  Anxious depressed tired.

 

I was just writing to Mamap about a very slow taper.  In her signature she wrote that with each drop, she felt better.

 

Are you experiencing the same results with a micro taper?

Hang in there - no I am not having this problem w microtaper (yet). A little foggy today but could be from another med. 

[lobster]

Im hoping you get some relief and feel better. It will all end some day :-) just want you to know I'm thinking of you.

[Nikki]

thanks....how are you doing?  very tired not much sleep. 

[Nikki]

Well tonight I am going to make a suspension of serzone.  Wish me luck and if this doesn't work out I know I can get it in liquid at the compounding pharmacy.

 

I just don't really have the guts to call the psych nurse again.....so far everything she has said and prescribed has not been very good with this last drug transition.

 

Wealth of knowledge here:)

[Meimeiquest]

Yay Nikki!

[mammaP]

Great news Nikki, tiny cuts to start and time between for your body to get used to the new dose. 

I would leave the imiprimine alone for now, there's been a lot going on and f you cut both you won't 

know which one you are withdrawing from.  Hopefully you will feel better as the dose gets lower.

[Nikki]

I DID IT

 

I made the suspension.  When will I learn to let go of anticipatory anxiety and just "do it".  It was easy and I dropped by 1 mg.

 

I saw the Therapist yesterday and that is always a Plus for me.  I wrote my resignation letter for TJMaxx citing a health issue.

I don't like burning bridges.

 

Alto Alto Alto.....thank you for explaining suspensions and dosages to me at least 800 times in the last few months. I was scardy-cat.

 

I think the UTI cleared up but I am going for another culture to make sure.  The Fluconazole has done it's job with the yeast infections from all the antibiotics.

 

My AENTA insurance will begin on April 1st and I can let go of Humana.

 

I should probably go to the therapist more than twice a month.  She really helps.

 

MQ and Mama i told the therapist that I know two people from a support group who said they realized it was the medicine making them feel ill and when they slowly started to decrease they felt better......Please God ~ let me be one of these people

 

PS my daughter and her boyfriend are having an argument and that does not help mornings.

[mammaP]

Well done, that is the first step. Now you've made the decision and started to taper with

liquid, don't even THINK of changing anything else for a while, let your body heal and adjust.

You will get windows and waves, but ride the waves and the windows will open again. 

 

Remember this pic?  It's CW and I riding waves, you can join us 

 

[Nikki]

Hilarious and thank you for having my back covered....

 

1mg.  MP I was worried about doing a 10% reduction which would have been 5mgs.  I couldn't bring myself to possibly experience WD this morning.

 

I am still tired.  Somehow I need to figure out how to recharge my batteries.  God please let me ride this wave with the two hot mommas in the pic above

[lobster]

Good morning Nikki. I hope everything goes great for you :-) when you find out how to let go of the anticipatory anxiety will you let me know how. Im the same lol some one once told me you will feel great when you learn to let go of the things you cant control. Im still waiting to get to that point. Good luck to you :-)

[Meimeiquest]

Yay Nikki! We are pulling for you!