Nikki: hi, my rundown with ADs

[Petunia]

  Well done, you tried to do something new and have been successful....

 

I was going to write something else..... but its gone!  Oh, ok, I remember now.  Perhaps, if possible, increasing therapy for a while would really help you, it sounds like its good for you to have that support and it will help to keep you on track with tapering and improving your skills at managing life with healthy methods.

[Nikki]

I don't know how to explain this.  It has only happened to me if I forgot to take Imipramine.

 

I dropped my 1mg. of serzone last night for the second time using a  suspension.

 

When I went to bed I had major - very speedy - technicolor thoughts) crashing one after another like a revolving door. It was scaring me and I couldn't seem to stop it.

 

I was tempted to take a little serzone.   I didn't and eventually it stopped.

 

I am assuming that is from dropping even as little as 1 mg.

 

It scared me and I was afraid I was hallucinating.  It felt like it.  I took tylenol last night and the night before but it didn't happen the night before.

 

I am exhausted and worried.

 

I am not me......I know I am under the influence of these drugs (or more so the serzone).

 

Yesterday I had a bit of mania.

 

Any advise very welcome:)

[bubble]

Dear Nikki,

 

I've read about recent developments and particularly welcome the resignation and the idea to updose the therapist

 

Impressd with the liquid thing, was going crazy about it in my own time as well

 

this cut also seems to be small and controlled BUT it did hit you. Unfortunately, I have no advice except clench your teeth and repeat it will pass (scary as it is). I read posts of many people with scary experiences (and sometimes I have them myself) but they pass. It doesn't mean we have definitely crossed the border to psychotic and there is no way back.

 

I  just think you need a bit of additional reasurance that this happens and passes.

 

big hug!

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Nikki, when you go from pill to liquid form there is an inevitable loss of some medication, adhering to the mixing container, etc. Usually just that transition counts as a cut. If you need to, you can go back to the whole dose, made as a liquid, and you have still made a cut.

[Nikki]

Bubble it was scary and i hope it doesn't happen again....it did make me feel like I was psychotic.

 

MQ I was thinking that a 1mg. cut is actually more than 1mg. do to losing some pill in mixing.  I may do 1/2mg. tonight.

 

Yes there probably is a transitional effect from this.

 

And I took fish oil later in the day.  I know it can cause that effect.  I am going to eliminate it for now.

 

thanks

[Meimeiquest]

In my limited experience, this is the hardest cut because it is uncontrolled. Once you get through that, you can make the cuts just as you would like. There's no way you are psychotic, you're just having a little chemical adventure . Hope you have a good day!

[Meimeiquest]

One more thing. My mom (75) saw a gyn yesterday. She has been having frequent UTIs. Dr. Is putting her on vaginal suppositories of HRT, says that will also increase the mucosal protection in the bladder and urethra. But as you well know, HRT is a loaded issue in withdrawal. Supposedly there is not significant systemic absorption, but you know how we are.

[Rhiannon]

Well done, that is the first step. Now you've made the decision and started to taper with

liquid, don't even THINK of changing anything else for a while, let your body heal and adjust.

You will get windows and waves, but ride the waves and the windows will open again. 

 

Remember this pic?  It's CW and I riding waves, you can join us 

 

 

LOVE the pic!

[Nikki]

MQ I would die without HRT

 

It does help with UTI's (what your mom is doing).  I had a total hysterectomy in 1999.  I cannot function without estradiol and progesterone (both bio-identicals).

 

Jupiter would not be a safe town if I went without hormones

[Meimeiquest]

LOl....we want the world to be safe. I'm sure my time will come!

[Nikki]

MQ last night I made the cut 1/2mg. to compensate for the loss of powder.  It was much better.

 

I went to TJMaxx and handed in my letter of resignation.  They really didn't want me to leave. I embellished a bit by saying I had a medical issue going on.

 

I was bothered by leaving a job. Was thinking I should have spoken to them and told them I needed some time off and could only work on Sundays.  Then I realized I would still be in the same boat of working 6 days instead of 7.  In my heart I really don't want to work there any more.

 

My business will slow down at the end of April as the Snowbirds go home (north).  I am trying to stay out of fear.  Last year when I did this I was still busy during the summer.  Trying to trust in my Higher Power to carry me thru.

 

I did well this winter and saved it all.  I finally used my head.  My body, mind and home need my attention.

 

Hugs

[Nikki]

When change happens I get anxious of course.  Yesterday one of my customers had to stop using my services due to their own financial reasons.  The thing is I saw it coming.  They live way above their means.  That is a lesson right there.
 
I felt panic coming on.  I lost two other customers recently, one retired and went to Georgia and the other had to go to assisted living.
 
Needless to say I am going to work on Sundays only at TJMaxx until I make up the losses.
 
So this morning and last night I was surprised that I wasn't in a full blown panic episode.  It's low grade.
And I made the decision to keep moving forward and have faith that I will get where I want to be going.
 
I am not happy and I am sad-end......what else is there to do?
 
I am not good with change.  And yet my life is always changing.

 

I don't have much inner peace, although this week surprisingly (with tapering)it is better than it has been.

 

I keep thinking  that when I get to the next level in my business I will find inner peace and contentment.

I know it is part of security.  And I pray for the day where I just feel peace within myself when I wake up each day.

 

 

[Zoe]

Hi Nikki- 

I am sorry that you lost your customers. But you are making progress- you said that it did not throw you into a full blown panic attack- that is so good! I was talking to my therapist yesterday about feeling so anxious about change also. But life is a series of changes and the main thing I think is to do like you have done- make the decision to keep moving forward & having the faith that it will work out. I'm so proud of you- you will get there! I think the feeling of peace will come. It will be gradual and maybe not there all of the time - but it will come.

 

Hugs & prayers being sent 

[Nikki]

Ah thank you Zoe.....I am a bit down today and I keep thinking about 'it'.  But I did go to my Al-Anon Beach Meeting and than Brunch afterwards with my friends.

 

I remember times in my life where there was no change and it was just so nice to coast and feel peace.

[Zoe]

I know I remember those times too, but we are getting stronger and will have peaceful times again. 

[trouper]

I don't know how to explain this.  It has only happened to me if I forgot to take Imipramine.

 

I dropped my 1mg. of serzone last night for the second time using a  suspension.

 

When I went to bed I had major - very speedy - technicolor thoughts) crashing one after another like a revolving door. It was scaring me and I couldn't seem to stop it.

 

hi nikki,

i've had something similar happen a few times to me.. either it wakes me up or it happens in my half-awake half-asleep brain in the middle of the night. all images are super fast, like a video flip book or like watching tv in fast forward. hard to describe.. usually it subsides when i wake up fully - i just need to shake it. does that sound similar to what you experienced? you haven't mentioned it again so hopefully it subsided. new crazy symptoms that you haven't read about are scary and always make us uneasy. I'm a HSP (highly sensitive person) so its worse. :/ like you, i have anxiety issues too. take care!

[Nikki]

Thank you Trouper.....you found the exact words to describe it.  Hasn't happened again.....it's good to know we are not alone and we all seem to share symptoms.  Yes I am a highly sensitive person and WD does make is worse....

 

Nikki

[Nikki]

Mario Ping Pond is very accurate.

 

I am having a problem with this Nefazadone (serzone) taper.  Bad dreams, very bad memory recall, fatigue and both imipramine and nefazadone have a created a big Urinary Tract issue.  They both cause retention and I cannot empty my bladder which results in UTI's.

 

Paxil for years

Crossed over from Paxil to Lexapro

Lexpro taper which lasted two years (2007-2009)

Went on Imipramine to try and halt the WD effects.

 

In 2009 many things happened and continued to happen which made me depressed and anxious.  Job loss, economy, rebuilding,

My daughter became sick.  Alot of stuff.

 

Since that time I have been living in anxiety and fear.

 

In late 2010 I introduced Celexa to offset depression and crying spells. (From worry)

It helped.

 

30mgs. Celexa and 30mgs. Imipramine. 
Felt much better.

 

Then the Ping Pong began:  mostly self induced.

 

I wanted off of Celexa (ssri's have made me gain weight) 

 

While on Celexa and Imipramine I started to have chronic anxiety.

Continued to taper Celexa (5mg. drops) and on Doctor's advise added Nefazadone.

 

Plan was to get off Celexa and Imipramine and just take Nefazadone.

 

Off Celexa since November.  Don't fee right from Nefazadone.  Still have anxiety and some depression.  It did nothing really.

 

Started Nefazadone taper making a liquid out of it and dropped 1mg. only and having bad reaction.

Very bad dreams, fatigue, urinary issues,

 

I am at a loss here in what I should do.

Should I hold off on the Serzone taper and do the imipramine (it is an easier taper for me)  besides being ineffective.

 

Is 1mg. slow torture if I am having problems anyway and should opt for the 10%.

 

There doesn't seem to be an easier, softer way out. Sick of feeling lousy....

 

Thanks Mario

[Mario]

Hi Nikki,

For the benefits of the people in this forum (and honestly for my curiosity ;-), could I kindly ask you to build a "summary" of your experience ?

 

For which reasons have you switched to Imipramine ?  And you did it 2 times from Citalopram... 

 

- name of each one of your psychiatrist

- what each one told you to do  

- for how much time you kept each drug (and how the dosages changed during time)

- whether have you been doing a psychotherapy or not

- your age

- your weight

 

Thx a lot and sorry if this is giving you work.

My best wishes for everything.

[Altostrata]

Mario, please see Nikki's entire story above.

 

Why do you need to know the names of her psychiatrists?

[Nikki]

Wondering about that myself.....my weight is a military secret.

 

I had to forgo the 1mg. drop in dose for now.  I still have the UTI and I just started Cipro which affects my nervous system.  It gives me more anxiety.

 

Need to get rid of this infection first and foremost.

 

This is unbelievable.

[Nikki]

I woke up this morning and said "I don't trust my judgement anymore."

 

About medications, how to taper and which one to start.  Antibiotics, etc.

 

Mostly everything.  I wanted to leave TJMaxx and then I lost 4 customers in my business, freaked out and I am still at TJMaxx on Sundays and a few hours on Monday.....No more Saturdays.

 

Every day little decisions (and there are many) seem monumental.

 

I would rather text than speak to people.

 

I need to make many decisions during the course of the day, and I am mostly afraid that I will make the wrong choice.

 

PS

 

Not sleeping

[Hopefull]

Is this Mario guy for real? Why do you need to know weight, age, psychiatrists ,names. etc. Why would anyone wan to give out that information. I have seen other posts where you have asked the same information! Not wanting to sound rude but it is a bit creepy!

[Mario]

Yes, I am real :-D   If you want we can exchange a phone call :-)

Basically I was trying to get information to eventually try to perform an hypothesis of whether any mistake could have been done by any of those psychiatrists (it is clear that is ok if you name them Dr X, Dr Y and Dr Z.  That is up to you).

From my opinion, it is misleading to talk about dosages if you don't talk also about weight.  It is clear that an anorexic girl of 40 Kg is very different from a fat man of 100 Kg. 

However I was reading a little bit more about your many many posts and I understand the complication  (I start to doubt to be able to make such an hypothesis).

My best wishes for a fast recovery and an happy life again.

[Meimeiquest]

Good luck finding any histories here that don't involve mistakes!

[Mario]

Yes, I guess you are right…  

[Nikki]

No problem Mario.....I think MQ is spot on.....we all made mistakes with meds.  The doctors who prescribed them and us sanctioning taking them. 

[mammaP]

Nikki, I have just made a monumental decision but for years couldn't decide what to wear 

for bed! Couldn't decide whether to get up or not, what to eat or drink.  I've said this many times 

but I'll say it again. I started to get better when I started to taper the effexor. It affected my life in 

more ways than I ever imagined.   

 

You have been here for a long time and learned a lot but it appears to me that you do a lot of forum

hopping. It's good to research and find out as much as you can about drugs and withdrawal but it 

can be confusing.  Many different opinions and experiences and it's easy to become confused.

 

Why not bite the bullet and trust Alto and all the research she has done here. 

I would trust her with my life, literally. When it comes to psychotropic drug  withdrawal  this place

is way, way above the rest.  There will be times when you feel rough, but  it will get better. 

 

You don't want to be tapering for many years, but what is the alternative?  Staying on them forever,

or taper too fast, risking withdrawal that would be even worse than you are now?  You reduced my 1mg one day

and half a mg the next then got scared.  I'm not having a go at you, I can see how frightened you are

but if you want to change things you have to take the plunge and commit to it. Trying and stopping will

just confuse your system even more.

 

You don't seem able to trust what Alto, Rhi, Monica and all the others' research and experience has 

proved beyond doubt, but if you saw a doctor who claimed to know that xxx drug would help then you

would be tempted to take it.  That is not a criticism, I asked if it would be ok to take a benzo yesterday

and almost took one because I felt desperate.  But I didn't, because I remembered everything I have

learned here, and more important, remembered how I got into the whole polydrug thing in the first place. 

I am confident that you will feel better once you start to taper, I'm sure we all feel that way but you just

don't have that same confidence. 

 

You are a strong woman, have your own business and have raised your daughter. You can do this,

you just need to jump in and swim, then get on that surfboard and ride the waves, we'll all be riding

them together! 

[Nikki]

Hi MamaP...

 

Your post comes from a place of caring.  I am very grateful to have you as a friend along with alot of the other members.

I do belong to another support group for people getting off meds.  They are as knowledgeable and as caring as the folks here are.

 

For me, seeking out information is very helpful.  At the end of the day I have to listen to my gut.

 

I learned a long time ago not to turn my will and life over to another person. (I learned this from my marriage).  I don't care to give my power away or place that type of burden on another.

 

I like you so much and I just want to explain my decision and what I have done.  Your opinion does matter to me.

 

I dropped the Nefazadone 1mg. for a week.  I did experience WD symptoms.

 

Right now and for the last month I have e.coli and it is kicking my butt and not responding to antibiotics.  This is serious.

I have avoided taking the quinolones because they affect the nervous system.  I have been in WD before and had to take them and it was very rough.

 

Because it was only a 1mg drop and it was only for a week I made the decision to go back up 1mg. stop the taper and try to overcome the infection first.  Once this is out of the way, I can begin again with a taper.  And yes I do believe you about feeling better the further we get away from the AD's.

 

I may have to see an Epidemiologist.  I am not looking forward to more drugs. 

 

Right now for me, it's one issue at a time ~ one day at a time.  I have to cure this infection.  It can go into the kidneys and e.coli can be fatal.

 

The sooner I get off Imipramine the better.  It causes urinary retention and I can't totally void which exacerbates this whole issue.

I may have to put the nefazadone taper on hold to get off Imipramine.

 

I am trying to have faith that I can get the infection cleared up and then proceed with tapering.

 

Because I love you to pieces I wanted to explain further.

 

PS  my BFF is totally immune to antibiotics and lives with a chronic infection. She has to self catheterize three times  day.  I have gone thru this with her over the years and hope to God I don't end up like that.  In the last month I have had to be catheterized to empty my bladder.

 

This ain't fun

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Nikki, What a very hard time with all this UTI stuff! Did you go back to the solid pill or are you making solution? If you went back to solid, I really think it would be better to go to the liquid without a cut. Just that is a big change, a cut of unknown percentage. I'm glad you are going to see a specialist. This has been enough, and Cipro stinks!

[mammaP]

I feel for you Nikki, and hope you can get the UTI sorted out. Being catheterised is no

fun at all!  I was worried that I said too much but it was all said out of caring and without 

my mod hat on.  I think I probably didn't explain properly what I meant. I was thinking of

the expertise here that has been gained from much careful research  when I said I would

trust Alto with my life.  We all have the decisions to make ourselves but I trust that Alto&co

have done more research on psych drugs than any doctor I will see in my lifetime.  I hope

I didn't offend you and if I did I am truly sorry.  

[Nikki]

No no no Mamap....no offense what so ever.....it came from a very caring place and I appreciate your honesty.

 

Yes Alto could write several books on the subject leaving doctors to scratch their empty heads like monkeys

 

MQ....I am not tapering at all.  It was just a 1mg. drop (thank goodness) so going back up was a cinch.

 

I can't do both right now.  Quinolones and WD.  If I were further along into WD I would have had to stay put on a hold and deal with the UTI. Fortunately I could just go back up and stay put until whenever this clears up.  The Cipro is 1000mgs. day for two weeks. 

Levaquin kills me.  It totally levels me so I hope the Cipro does the job.  For three days I take prescription strength Pyridium.  Have to stop because it can temporarily alter the bilirubin levels which do reverse after stopping.

 

PS  last night was the first night I slept thru the night without getting up due to the frequency UTI's cause.  It felt wonderful

 

As always  ~ Hugs

[Nikki]

Since I stopped the taper I am feeling much better.  Anxiety is low.  Have experienced some peace/serenity.  What a welcome change that is.

 

I suppose there are some other factors.  Giving myself Saturdays off.  Seeing more of my friends.Oh how i hope this lasts:)

 

Have to see doctor for UTI issue.  Concerned about what is going on. Hopeful.

[mindquest]

Nikki, when you say you stopped the taper, does that mean you just stopped reducing the dosage any further, or that you went back to the origin pre-taper dosage?

Sorry, I am new here, so not familiar with the terminology. I am happy for you that you are experiencing low anxiety and feelings of serenity though.

[Nikki]

Mindquest

 

you will learn everything you need to learn and then some.  just keep reading.

 

I went from 50mgs. to 49mgs. by making a liquid suspension which I learned about here.  I did this for a week.  Have to take some heavy medicines for a bladder infection which give me very bad side effects.  As a result of only having done this for 1 week and such a low dose I opted to go back to the 50mgs. while I work on the bladder issue.

 

Had this been much further into a tapering process I would not have been able to do this.  I would have had to stay put at whatever dose I was at, not change the taper to keep symptoms to a hopeful minimum.

 

For many of us we can become more sensitive to other meds (this has happened to me).  At the end of the day I made a sound decision for myself......thank heavens.

[Nikki]

Just an update...

 

Aside from being dead tired....yes I did it again....overworked at TJMaxx coupled with my business.  Some of us have to get hit over the head with a 2 x 4 before we learn our lessons.

 

I have dropped weight, substantial amount and it is because I got off Celexa.  ssri's cause weight gain.  No doubt about it.

 

I am not suffering with depression or anxiety (well some anxiety).  So I am realizing that with all the medication mix up, maybe it was finishing Celexa and a protracted wd from it.

 

I finished Cirpro yesterday.  Have doctor's appointment next week.  Hope with UTI thing is over.  It was a long haul.

 

Waiting things out.  AND then I will begin a taper from imipramine, not Serzone.  Imipramine well I have been on it since 2008 sometime.  It is not good for my bladder or anyone else's

 

Will check out the cost of the liquid (I understand insurance companies don't always pay for liquid when there are pills available).

I was thinking (did this with Lexapro)......

 

25mg. pills and 25mg. liquid Imipramine.  Take the pill and reduce from the liquid.

 

And now that I know how to make a liquid suspension that is also an option...

 

I NEED SLEEP AND ALOT OF IT

 

I NEED A TAN

 

I NEED A DIP IN THE OCEAN

 

AND I COULD REALLY USE A NEW BRAIN the one I have is shot........