sunnysideup69: what can I do to stabilise on venlafaxine

[Erell]

Dear Sunny,

 

- I understand what you're going through those around me don't understand 1% of what i'm going through. I Feel guilty because I can't answer To their expectations. But can I do otherwise ? No. 

Your brother is sick, so are you. You are already doing everything you can To heal, even if your family doesnt understand it.

 

- no you don't have an incredible underlying condition, and yes WD worsen everything. 

Remember when I lost my grandmother in November? Had a few days horrible, terror came back.

Sassenach told me that it was logical, but I couldn't believe him,  days were so awful, I was convinced that something was going really wrong and that I was condemned To suffer.

And it appears that Sassenach was right: things settled down.

Our CNS doesnt seem To be able To answer 'normally' To triggers. For now Sunny, only for now.

 

- Everybody tell us that we Will stabilise one day, which means one day we Will be more able To handle triggers. I believe the end of the year (Christmas, new year ) is providing a lot of stress on us. We Will hold our hands in January and wonder what was this all about 😙

 

I'm thinking strongly of you my dear, you're not Alone ❤

You're in a wave, so everything seems hopeless. But your wave Will pass and you'll be back To your WD normal 😚

 

(Sorry for the bullets, it is easier for me To organize my thoughts in English).

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Thanks @Erell, really appreciate your words. Just needed to see them written down. Having a difficult day, fed up with life. Berating myself for all my mistakes with WD like updosing and switching drugs. Can't seem to switch off the inner critic today. Will visit your page later on ❤️

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

need to hear that WD makes everything, even minor stresses, feel worse.

Definitely true.  It exaggertates stresses, minor bumps in the road into something overwhelming.  That's also true of real physical symptoms--they get intensified too.  Don't push yourself too hard--be kind to yourself.  You need it and deserve it

[sunnysideup69]

27 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Definitely true.  It exaggertates stresses, minor bumps in the road into something overwhelming.  That's also true of real physical symptoms--they get intensified too.  Don't push yourself too hard--be kind to yourself.  You need it and deserve it

Thanks @Gridley for your reassurance and kind presence. I'm just resting up this weekend before work next week. Thankfully only two working days for me, so can get in lots of resting time. I feel like my world has shrunk a lot this year. I get so resentful that I seem to have 'lost' the old me, who always used to be out and about. Also, family stuff is just exhausting at the moment, plus a bit of work drama. I'm finding it hard to see what's good at the moment, so know I'm in a wave. On the plus side, even though I feel guilty about saying no, it's forcing me to make better boundaries with family. 

[Gridley]

@sunnysideup69  All our worlds have shrunk. Mine certainly has.  You will get the old you back.  It's great that you're making boundaries.  We have to.

[sunnysideup69]

@Gridley thank you x 

[sunnysideup69]

Can't shake myself out of this horrible mood today, super anxious, just sitting on sofa and staring into space. Tried to write some Christmas cards but can't. Feel like doing some exercise to get me back into my body. Maybe some gentle strength exercises. I have horrible muscle tensing in my arms and a churning stomach and really high anxiety. My mind is telling me I won't snap out of this wave, that I am getting worse, and I won't recover because I've been wobbling around on meds and dosages for too long..

What happened to my lovely WD normal stretch in November? That was two good weeks.

 

All my physical symptoms are back today and feeling worse, body tics and jerks etc.

 

Feeling frustrated that I can get so stressed out by so little, just a hint of expectation or pressure from someone and it tips me into overwhelm. Also feeling sad that I'm not strong enough to help soothe my parents. They must be really worried about my bro.

[Tom37]

Sorry to here you are not feeling too good. Try not to think think too hard about those thoughts of not getting better as they are all part of the wave. They will go once you start coming out of it and you will because waves always come to an end we just don’t know when.

[Erell]

Dear Sunny

 

I know how hard it Feels To be back in a wave when things seemed To get better. 

What helps me in this case is To think about a possible improved baseline after, and To see the wave as a time for my brain To make some adjustments.

 

Holding your hand  ❤

[Giulietta]

Hello Sweetie,

 

I'm so sorry you are in a bad way. The long waves are frustrating - but we need to remind ourselves (OK, that is one of the lovely things we do free of charge!) that we are going to get a window and sooner we hope rather than later.

 

Your Christmas/New Year's plans sound nice. Quiet time with a cat in North London and a visit post New Year's. To be honest, this time is the worst of the year for me - and I will be glad when it is Jan 2! From Christmas cards, to  presents for a few people and of course the dogs, it is too much excitement and activity. To be honest, even if we are not in WD, it is hard - but now it seems for you, @Erell, me and countless others it's stressfest.😕

 

3 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Feeling frustrated that I can get so stressed out by so little, just a hint of expectation or pressure from someone and it tips me into overwhelm. Also feeling sad that I'm not strong enough to help soothe my parents. They must be really worried about my bro.

 

It is OK to feel frustrated. Just a hint of expectation or pressure from someone (like you are dramatizing WD) upsets or overwhelms me. I feel like I am being judged. While it is easier believed or said than done - someone else's expectations are their ball of wax.  They manage themselves not you or me or anyone else. Then we fall into the 'don't explain or complain' trap where (at least I) feel like I have to explain/justify why I don't want to do something.  I think part of it is being hard on myself. Do you find that too? Maybe I feel guilty about not socializing after dinner (guilt is part of anxiety - fear we will be rejected, not loved, who knows what else) and am pressuring myself. 

 

Do you have 'trouble' putting yourself first? It is not easy to be pleasant about asserting your needs without alienating others? What helps you? @Erell @sunnysideup69@Gridley@Tom37

 

Well, that's enough blabbing for one day. @Erell I think I responded to you today. 

 

Hugs,

Giulietta

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Notes for Sunday December 8th

 

Felt horrible all day, until about 1800 hours, then a window of two hours.

500 up, feeling really weepy and stressed

700 breakfast and Venlafaxine

Bath

900 called parents, explained about coming after NY instead of at Christmas

Couldn't stop crying after phone call

Then very anxious, about 5

Went out to buy food

This afternoon, exhausted and anxious, 5

Physical symptoms gradually diminish after about 4pm

Did some exercise at home 

2120 hours now, will take myself off to bed, hope tomorrow is better

Worst day in ages, to be honest

Bad physical anxiety symptoms, twitching muscles, tight chest and arms, 

[Tom37]

Sounds like your easily triggered in a wave like me. Over sensitive to everything. But you got through the day and did what you needed to. Don’t be surprise if you have a bit of a hangover today from it as can take a bit to settle back down. But it will settle down again soon.

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

2 hours ago, Tom37 said:

Sounds like your easily triggered in a wave like me. Over sensitive to everything. But you got through the day and did what you needed to. Don’t be surprise if you have a bit of a hangover today from it as can take a bit to settle back down. But it will settle down again soon.

 

 

God I hope so, Tom. Had a really sweaty, restless sleep. I'm scared I'm not just in a wave but having some kind of a relapse. It's awful, just woken up, thank god no work today or tomorrow. Im really shaky and anxiety still high, but less depressed. Think I might have to just crash on the sofa today. Very over sensitive to family stuff at the moment, that's for sure. I was already feeling low on Saturday, so discussion about visiting brother just flipped the panic switch and yesterday I was a mess. Couldn't think straight, had zero energy, couldn't stop crying. I don't have the obsessive, looping thoughts this morning having made a decision, so that's good.

Last week at work was also difficult. I seem to be very sensitive to stress at work also, at the moment...mine and other people's. Have had to deal with quite an abrasive work colleague, which kind of sets me off. Anyway, managed to get 6 or 7 broken hours of sleep. A crazy dream in the middle. Maybe today I will just stay in bed and rest a bit.

[Tom37]

It will settle and if it’s different than your previous ‘condition’ then it’s all wd. And even if there is a little bit of your own anxiety wd will magnify it hugely. Wd has a way of preying on your weaknesses.

 

This is just me but I would make sure I get up and go about my normal routine and get out for a gentle walk. But we all have our ways of dealing with it. Maybe I do that as I hate the thought of wd completely defeating me as it’s already limited me enough.

[sunnysideup69]

1 minute ago, Tom37 said:

It will settle and if it’s different than your previous ‘condition’ then it’s all wd. And even if there is a little bit of your own anxiety wd will magnify it hugely. Wd has a way of preying on your weaknesses.

 

This is just me but I would make sure I get up and go about my normal routine and get out for a gentle walk. But we all have our ways of dealing with it. Maybe I do that as I hate the thought of wd completely defeating me as it’s already limited me enough.

Yeah, good advice, plus it's good to get some fresh air. I'm in bed, drinking a tea. Going to attempt some breakfast. Didn't really eat much yesterday, was feeling too weak.

[MissyE]

Morning Sunny, sorry to see you had a horrible day. 

It looks like Tom has been making some good suggestions.  It is hard to remember WD exacerbates anxiety when you're in it. 

Good you had a bit of a window though. 

You're coping amazingly well and have come so far.  Your CNS is working hard for stability. 

Remember family and work can be stressful enough without WD on top and you're managing boundary setting, working and have a good routine.  You are one strong woman.  I hope today is kinder.

Hugs to you 🤗 Missy

 

[sunnysideup69]

Dear @Gridley, one last wave question from me.

Basically, by swapping to Venlafaxine, I have reset the 'withdrawal clock,' as I stopped the Citalopram. I guess I'm dealing mostly right now with WD from Citalopram, as I have been all along, and I'm wobbling around with stabilising on the Venlafaxine because of that? That makes me, technically, only 4 months into the process. Which is not long.

 

Is it possible to be experiencing WD from Citalopram even though I substituted another drug? Feeling scared today about how long it may take to stabilise. Gonna try to distract myself with Christmassy stuff. I think this is where I made my errors before. Because I was not feeling better, I assumed that the drug was 'not working' and wasn't enough- that's why I kept updosing the Cit ( based on conventional GP wisdom) and then switched (psychiatric wisdom.)

I hope you're still having good days, amazing that you've cut the Lexapro since 5th December. Well done!

[sunnysideup69]

26 minutes ago, MissyE said:

Morning Sunny, sorry to see you had a horrible day. 

It looks like Tom has been making some good suggestions.  It is hard to remember WD exacerbates anxiety when you're in it. 

Good you had a bit of a window though. 

You're coping amazingly well and have come so far.  Your CNS is working hard for stability. 

Remember family and work can be stressful enough without WD on top and you're managing boundary setting, working and have a good routine.  You are one strong woman.  I hope today is kinder.

Hugs to you 🤗 Missy

 

Thank you Missy, made me tear up. The anxiety is a killer, makes me just want to hide, and yes the waves really ramp it up. I get low mood, but it's the anxiety state that I find really difficult...plus, it's exhausting. You had a good, long window in the summer, if I remember correctly? Do you find the lack of light in winter makes all of this worse?

[Gridley]

5 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 

Is it possible to be experiencing WD from Citalopram even though I substituted another drug?

 

Unfortunately. yes, it is possible.  I would guess you're experiencing some withdrawal from the Cit.    The drugs are different, and the Ven may not constitute a full substitution.  There's no telling, really, how much of the Cit's "job" the Ven is doing. 

 

I would assume the best, that the Ven is filling in pretty well, since assuming the best helps avoid stress and worrying.

 

I'm sorry you had a horrible day yesterday and hope today is better.  Let's assume that the transition and withdrawal period is going to be short.  

[sunnysideup69]

3 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

Unfortunately. yes, it is possible.  I would guess you're experiencing some withdrawal from the Cit.    The drugs are different, and the Ven may not constitute a full substitution.  There's no telling, really, how much of the Cit's "job" the Ven is doing. 

 

 

@GridleyYeah, I guess all antideps have a slightly different mechanism of action....who knows what they are doing, really?? And I guess even if I assumed the worse ie that the Ven WASN't filling in very well, the advice would still be to hold still and make no more changes. Just let brain/CNS adapt and stabilise to the Ven. Thanks @Gridley. I'm having a better day today, so the Ven is doing SOMEthing. I'm just massiveley triggered by stress , which is probably more down to destabilisation.

[Gridley]

9 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

he advice would still be to hold still and make no more changes. Just let brain/CNS adapt and stabilise to the Ven.

That's right.

[sunnysideup69]

1 minute ago, Gridley said:

That's right.

I'm on it. NO WAY JOSE am I repeating my previous mistakes. No more updosing. No more switching. Just wait...and distract as best as possible, and coping strategies. I'm defintiely getting better at dealing with panic. Managed to ride out a mini panic wave at school last week and carry on. NEVER managed to do that before, so on a good day, I can see I am learning some different ways to cope.

Thanks for your support Gridley, much appreciate

[MissyE]

10 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Do you find the lack of light in winter makes all of this worse?

Yes winter is hardest.  

I resonate with drug changes made in good faith in the past; following "expert" advice in my desperate quest for peace of mind.  

12 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Because I was not feeling better, I assumed that the drug was 'not working' and wasn't enough- that's why I kept updosing the Cit ( based on conventional GP wisdom) and then switched (psychiatric wisdom.)

 

[Giulietta]

Hello Sweetie

 

Sorry things haven't improved but I'm glad to see you're holding steady and letting your CNS adapt and stabilize.

 

12 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

based on conventional GP wisdom) and then switched (psychiatric wisdom.)

 

Mixing wisdom in conjunction with an MD is generally an oxymoron.

 

5 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Just wait...and distract as best as possible, and coping strategies. I'm defintiely getting better at dealing with panic. Managed to ride out a mini panic wave at school la

 

What a huge accomplishment - dealing with panic at work. How did you manage? Did you have to leave the classroom?

 

I hope you are enjoying putting up some Xmas decorations.

 

Hugs,

Giulietta

[sunnysideup69]

11 hours ago, Guilietta said:

Hello Sweetie

 

Sorry things haven't improved but I'm glad to see you're holding steady and letting your CNS adapt and stabilize. Thanks Guilietta. Yes, that's the only option, really.

Reflecting on the fact this morning that I'm in the same situation as when I was on Citalopram 10mg this time last year....some windows/waves etc. I panicked in May this year when I had a strong wave ( I think I was having acupuncture that was too activating) and updosed and then switched, which I now regret. If I had stayed put at 10mg Citalopram, I would quite possibly be relatively stable now.

I also wasted about £700 on private psychiatrist fees in August because I thought the problem was I 'needed a different drug.' Turns out I needed that like I need a hole in my head. Trepanning would probably be more beneficial...At least I got some honesty from that psych, though...he admitted that he had no idea what drug would work, it was all guesswork.

It's been quite a hard lesson to learn, but I've well and truly learned that the only people who really understand WD are people on sites like this/ places like 'The Bristol Tranquiliser Project' in UK, Beyond Meds, The Icarus Project....etc.

 

 

Mixing wisdom in conjunction with an MD is generally an oxymoron.

ahahahahahahaha......this made me chuckle

 

 

What a huge accomplishment - dealing with panic at work. How did you manage? Did you have to leave the classroom? Luckily it wasn't too severe, just a few palpitations and a sense of agitation, so I distracted and kept talking to the teacher I was covering. It wasn't pleasant, but I somehow managed it.....

 

I hope you are enjoying putting up some Xmas decorations. I've got a teeny tree with some lights. Wondering if I can take a piccie here and post? Edit to say...wouldn't let me upload, too big a file.

 

Hugs,

Giulietta

 

[sunnysideup69]

Just dropping this here for later....well done @Anonymous784, looking forward to reading this.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15625-ladywingnut-successful-withdrawal-from-effexorvenlafaxine/

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Karma
Update name

[sunnysideup69]

When I joined this forum as XXXXXX, last April/ May (2019), I had been holding at 10mg Citalopram for 9 months. I was getting strings of days where I felt better, but still some quite big swings in terms of stabilising, so hadn't really settled enough to start tapering. Is that a long time / unusual amount of time to be holding? ( Am guessing not after all the updosing I had done in June to August 2018, plus the fast taper at the end of 2016/early 2017)

 

I then had quite a big crash in May 2019. I started to get some quite big cortisol spikes a couple of mornings a week and it threw me. I GUESS it could have just been a big wave, wondering if that's common / 'normal' so far out in a hold? These were also interspersed with some days of feeling okay. I had been having weekly acupuncture since January 2019 and had gradually tailed off to one treatment a month in April/May. I wondered whether the acupuncture could have caused the anxiety spikes? The woman treating me was quite 'needle heavy', and used a lot of Moxxa to stimulate points. NB this has really scared me off acupuncture now, in WD. I DID have a massage, which was lovely, but made sure it was a very gentle one. No sports massages. 

 

Also, I did have a glass of wine or two in the April hols before the May crash...definitely my body did not like that, and I've been teetotal ever since, and probably will remain so, to be honest.

 

My WD brain today is wondering why that crash happened?..any insights greatly appreciated. Likely to have been the acupuncture? I know that I'm quite sensitive to treatments anyway, definitely 'less is more.'

 

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Shep
removed old username

[Gridley]

10 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Is that a long time / unusual amount of time to be holding?

It's a good long hold but not uncommon.

 

12 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

GUESS it could have just been a big wave, wondering if that's common / 'normal' so far out in a hold?

There is just no predicting when a wave is going to hit, including far into a hold. There's so much going on as the brain heals.

 

14 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

I wondered whether the acupuncture could have caused the anxiety spikes? The woman treating me was quite 'needle heavy', and used a lot of Moxxa to stimulate points.

This makes sense to me, especially if she wasn't careful to only do the sedating and not the activating points. 

[sunnysideup69]

2 minutes ago, Gridley said:

It's a good long hold but not uncommon.

 

There is just no predicting when a wave is going to hit, including far into a hold. There's so much going on as the brain heals.

 

This makes sense to me, especially if she wasn't careful to only do the sedating and not the activating points. 

 

Hello @Gridley and thank you...puts my mind at rest. I did a few unhelpful things to my poor brain and nerves this year. 

2020 is gonna be my 'Be Kind to My Brain' year  

 

Acupuncturist was incredibly gung-ho, one day as I was lying on my front, she was wondering out loud whether to do a certain point and her comment was 'You're strong enough to take it,'......! Yeah, she ended up admitting that she'd given me a kind of mid way treatment rather than a gentle series. I've decided now that my brain and nerves can sort themselves out without any invasive treatments....

Hope you're well today and enjoying life, having some nice windows

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Another small victory....been feeling a bit phobic about socialising...even though am back at work. ...realised I hadn't been out socially since September. Tonight, I spent a good hour and a half in a local restaurant with a friend. AND at the end of a wave.

Need to edge myself back out there socially, little by little. WD makes me want to hide, which is okay sometimes, but going to to nudge myself to do a bit more often. For an hour and a half, I totally forgot about WD. It was lovely

[thelegend]

That is a great victory. Sounds like the veil lifted for an hour an a half, such a great relief when that stuff happens.

[RichT]

2 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Another small victory....been feeling a bit phobic about socialising...even though am back at work. ...realised I hadn't been out socially since September. Tonight, I spent a good hour and a half in a local restaurant with a friend. AND at the end of a wave.

Need to edge myself back out there socially, little by little. WD makes me want to hide, which is okay sometimes, but going to to nudge myself to do a bit more often. For an hour and a half, I totally forgot about WD. It was lovely

 
that’s great to hear! 

[Sottana]

3 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Another small victory....been feeling a bit phobic about socialising...even though am back at work. ...realised I hadn't been out socially since September. Tonight, I spent a good hour and a half in a local restaurant with a friend. AND at the end of a wave.

Need to edge myself back out there socially, little by little. WD makes me want to hide, which is okay sometimes, but going to to nudge myself to do a bit more often. For an hour and a half, I totally forgot about WD. It was lovely

Congrats! Forgetting about WD is basically  the pinnacle of positive experience for all of us in the thick of it. Happy you got to enjoy that! 

[Giulietta]

24 minutes ago, Adili13 said:

Forgetting about WD is basically  the pinnacle of positive experience for all of us in the thick of it. Happy you got to enjoy that! 

 

Well said!  I read this on so many people's threads - and we remind each other that when we are in a wave - we need to look back at the wonderful windows we have had. 

 

@sunnysideup69

[sunnysideup69]

8 hours ago, thelegend said:

That is a great victory. Sounds like the veil lifted for an hour an a half, such a great relief when that stuff happens.

The veil lifted.....yes it did! And it IS a relief. Initially I was still a bit nervous to go, and then even more nervy as she was late.....but eventually, I settled. Was really tired after, but also glad I had joined the 'normal world' for a while. It gives me hope. Going to practice a bit more. 

[sunnysideup69]

7 hours ago, RichT said:

 
that’s great to hear! 

Thanks RichT. It was a good experience 😊 How are you doing today?