Nicjk: my introduction

[Nicjk]

16 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you ever taken diazepam without nortriptyline or olanzapine.

Thanks so much for sharing the resources with me. I will definitely have a read. Yes, I was taking diazepam with Lexapro before my psych switched me over to Nortriptyline and Olanzapine. I never found Diazepam to be sedating when I took it without the other two sedating drugs. It takes pretty heavy duty drugs to make me sedated. 

[ChessieCat]

 

54 minutes ago, Nicjk said:

Hi @Meimeiquest, I am just about to begin my tapering process off Zyprexa 5mg. What method did you use to taper off Zyprexa? Thanks so much 

 

To find other members tapering Zyprexa use an internet search engine and paste in the following search string:

 

site:survivingantidepressants.org zyprexa olanzapine

 

Here are the search results from the Success Stories forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=zyprexa&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=olanzapine&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

[Nicjk]

24 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 

To find other members tapering Zyprexa use an internet search engine and paste in the following search string:

 

site:survivingantidepressants.org zyprexa olanzapine

 

Here are the search results from the Success Stories forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=zyprexa&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=olanzapine&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

Thanks so much @ChessieCat 

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome.

 

I've moved your post addressing rupa to rupa's Introduction topic.  You can find it here:

 

☼-rupa-risperdal-risperidone-victim

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Nic.

 

On 10/22/2020 at 5:28 PM, Nicjk said:

Thanks so much for sharing the resources with me. I will definitely have a read. Yes, I was taking diazepam with Lexapro before my psych switched me over to Nortriptyline and Olanzapine. I never found Diazepam to be sedating when I took it without the other two sedating drugs. It takes pretty heavy duty drugs to make me sedated. 

 

When were you taking diazepam with Lexapro? This does not appear in your signature.

 

Why are you going up and down on diazepam?

 

You had anxiety before because, as it turned out, those olanzapine decreases were too much for you.

 

Did you even suggest to your psychiatrist that cocktail of an antidepressant, a benzodiazepine, and an antipsychotic might be rather excessive for you?

 

What are your goals regarding your drugs?

 

Please be aware that if you go to a medical professional or the hospital saying you are suicidal, you can expect to come out on a massive drug cocktail. They would rather you be incapacitated than kill yourself.

 

[Nicjk]

57 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, Nic.

 

 

When were you taking diazepam with Lexapro? This does not appear in your signature.

 

Why are you going up and down on diazepam?

 

You had anxiety before because, as it turned out, those olanzapine decreases were too much for you.

 

Did you even suggest to your psychiatrist that cocktail of an antidepressant, a benzodiazepine, and an antipsychotic might be rather excessive for you?

 

What are your goals regarding your drugs?

 

Please be aware that if you go to a medical professional or the hospital saying you are suicidal, you can expect to come out on a massive drug cocktail. They would rather you be incapacitated than kill yourself.

 

Hi @Altostrata, I was on both Diazepam and Lexapro from the 5th August 2020 until my psych CT me off Lexapro on the 9th of September. My signature is a bit of a jumble because I have been on and off so many drugs.

I have stabilised on 8mg of Diazepam since the 2nd of October - I was being urged to do a fast taper off it by both my doctor and psychiatrist because my goal was to try and fall pregnant (this obviously won't happen any time soon due to my mental state). I was already on Diazepam when I went into hospital suicidal, and then my psychiatrist changed my antidepressant and put me on Olanzapine to help with sleep (which I now realise was a BIG mistake). I just did whatever they told me to do because I was in such a bad state and my family were urging me to take the advice of my psych.

My goals now regarding my drugs: I want to get off Olanzapine first because of horrible side effects. On Wednesday I will ask my psychiatrist to prescribe me the orally dissolving version of Olanzapine and I will begin with a 10% taper. Once I have finished my Olanzapine taper (however long it takes) I will then wait a while and then start tackling the diazepam. Do you think these are logical steps to take? Thanks so much

[Altostrata]

What are the side effects you feel from olanzapine?

 

What do you mean by your "mental state"?

 

Yes, you probably can get off olanzapine relatively quickly with smaller decreases, such as 10% per week, since you've been taking it such a short time. Let us know how you do with an initial 10% reduction.

 

 

[Nicjk]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What are the side effects you feel from olanzapine?

 

What do you mean by your "mental state"?

 

Yes, you probably can get off olanzapine relatively quickly with smaller decreases, such as 10% per week, since you've been taking it such a short time. Let us know how you do with an initial 10% reduction.

 

 

Hi @Altostrata, the side effects from Olanzapine: I'm gaining weight, I constantly feel flat and lethargic and I believe it could be causing my depression to return. My mental state has been very up and down. I have some ok days but then other days I feel down in the dumps. Yesterday I felt very low and cried a lot. Today I have woken up feeling the same. 

[Nicjk]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Yes, you probably can get off olanzapine relatively quickly with smaller decreases, such as 10% per week, since you've been taking it such a short time. Let us know how you do with an initial 10% reduction.

Hi @Altostrata, I am feeling very depressed today and I am unsure why. If I’m still feeling low during the week would it be best for me to hold off on beginning my taper? 

[Altostrata]

What do you mean by "depression"? "Flat and lethargic" from the drugs is not depression.

[Nicjk]

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

What do you mean by "depression"? "Flat and lethargic" from the drugs is not depression.

They are two separate issues. I feel flat and lethargic but I also feel depressed - as in, low mood - sad and down in the dumps. I am guessing that Olanzapine is causing it but I might be wrong.  

 

 

[ChessieCat]

  

1 hour ago, Nicjk said:

I am feeling very depressed today and I am unsure why.

 

If applicable, what time of your menstrual cycle are you at?  That might be the cause/contributing to it.

 

For females still menstruating it might be better to try and line up your tapering pattern to certain time/s in your cycle.

 

aligning-tapering-to-menstrual-cycle

 

[Nicjk]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

If applicable, what time of your menstrual cycle are you at?  That might be the cause/contributing to it.

This is a good point but my menstrual cycle is all over the place at the moment. I am about day 14 into my cycle but my cycles are quite long 

[ChessieCat]

It might be a good idea to keep a diary.  You might see a pattern.

[Nicjk]

@ChessieCat and @Altostrata I should have mentioned this earlier - it could very well be the reason why I am feeling like I am today. On Wednesday I attempted to cut up one of my 2.5mg Olanzapine tablets (Zyprexa brand) and I weighed it to make up a 10% reduction (I take 2 x 2.5mg at night). I took the lowered dose but then on Thursday I felt rotten so I went and chatted to a very knowledgeable pharmacist who told me that they do in fact stock the orally disintegrating tablets. I decided to go back up to my usual 5mg on Thursday and I have been on 5mg ever since then. I decided that I'd go back to my 5mg until I can chat to my psychiatrist on Wednesday about prescribing the orally disintegrating tablets. I didn't think that dropping a small amount for one night would make a big difference - because people often forget to take tablets. Is it possible that dropping a small amount for one night has caused a huge drop in my mood? I was moderately depressed yesterday but I am worse today. 

[Altostrata]

Yes, cutting your olanzapine dosage in half may cause uncomfortable symptoms due to withdrawal.

 

We don't treat "depression" here, all we do is support people in tapering. If you want to minimize your drugs, you may need to learn how to manage your "depression" or other mental state without significant chemical intervention.

 

Please consider this, as while you taper, you may well have unpleasant emotions from withdrawal and will need to remain calm to get through rough patches. Becoming alarmed and going to the hospital will set back your plans to go off the drugs and not incidentally waste all the time and care we might put into guiding you through this process.

 

Reducing or going off the drugs requires that you take responsibiilty for weathering the rocky patches. See

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

Coping with irritation, anger and rage

 

For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

[Nicjk]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, cutting your olanzapine dosage in half may cause uncomfortable symptoms due to withdrawal.

 

We don't treat "depression" here, all we do is support people in tapering. If you want to minimize your drugs, you may need to learn how to manage your "depression" or other mental state without significant chemical intervention.

 

Please consider this, as while you taper, you may well have unpleasant emotions from withdrawal and will need to remain calm to get through rough patches. Becoming alarmed and going to the hospital will set back your plans to go off the drugs and not incidentally waste all the time and care we might put into guiding you through this process.

 

Reducing or going off the drugs requires that you take responsibiilty for weathering the rocky patches. See

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

Coping with irritation, anger and rage

 

For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

Hi @Altostrata, just to clarify - I didn't cut my Olanzapine in half, I attempted to weigh both tablets to work out a 10% reduction. I don't think my cut was very accurate, which is why I decided to go back up to 5mg the next day and find a better way of ensuring that I am making an accurate 10% reduction. Do you think it's possible that the withdrawals will calm down seeing as I only took the reduced dose for 1 night? I am feeling a bit better this morning and just want to make sure I feel stable again before attempting to make the 10% drop using the dissolvable tablets. 

I completely understand what you explained regarding you being a support through my tapering process. I was basically forced to go into hospital by my family because I spent over a month being highly suicidal every single day, and I couldn't care for my toddler son. I will read the links you sent. Thank you for your support. 

[Nicjk]

On 10/26/2020 at 5:07 AM, Altostrata said:

Yes, cutting your olanzapine dosage in half may cause uncomfortable symptoms due to withdrawal.

Hi @Altostrata, these symptoms have now settled down. Do you think it will be ok for me to begin my 10% taper tomorrow or Thursday using the dissolvable Olanzapine tablets? Or should I wait a bit before beginning the taper 

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd wait a couple of weeks before making any other changes. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Nicjk]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

If I were you, I'd wait a couple of weeks before making any other changes. Please let us know how you're doing.

Thank you, I will take your advice and wait. Will update you once I have made the dosage change. 

[Nicjk]

Hi @ChessieCat, I have quite a good relationship with my GP and today she made me feel guilty for wanting to taper Olanzapine before Diazepam. She said that Diazepam is far more addictive and harmful than Olanzapine, so I should be focussing on getting off Diazepam. Which would you choose to taper first if you were in my position? The Olanzapine is giving me more side effects than the Diazepam - such as weight gain, emotional flatness and tiredness. 

[ChessieCat]

There is nothing for you to feel bad about.  She is not there to tell you what to do but to help you to make a decision.  And remember that it is your body which is going to be affected by the side effects of the drugs you take.  It isn't going to hurt her at all.  But it could have a life long impact on you.

 

I'm not going to make the decision for you.  I've already done a lot of research for you.  See:  nicjk-insomnia-from-lexapro

 

I just did an internet search for:  long term side effects Zyprexa and found this:

 

https://healthfully.com/long-term-effects-of-zyprexa-4423054.html

 

I suggest that you read the WHOLE thing and read it VERY CAREFULLY.

 

 

[Nicjk]

On 11/2/2020 at 7:24 PM, ChessieCat said:

There is nothing for you to feel bad about.  She is not there to tell you what to do but to help you to make a decision.  And remember that it is your body which is going to be affected by the side effects of the drugs you take.  It isn't going to hurt her at all.  But it could have a life long impact on you.

 

I'm not going to make the decision for you.  I've already done a lot of research for you.  See:  nicjk-insomnia-from-lexapro

 

I just did an internet search for:  long term side effects Zyprexa and found this:

 

https://healthfully.com/long-term-effects-of-zyprexa-4423054.html

 

I suggest that you read the WHOLE thing and read it VERY CAREFULLY.

 

 

Thank you @ChessieCat. It does seem that the long term (and short term) side effects of Olanzapine are worse than Diazepam. You are right about my doctor - she is not the one that has to put up with the side effects. I am starting my Olanzapine taper soon. Such a pity that I will most likely be suffering over the Christmas period when we’ll have lots of guests around 😢

[Nicjk]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:19 AM, Altostrata said:

 

If I were you, I'd wait a couple of weeks before making any other changes. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

Hi @Altostrata, I hope all is well with you. Just want to clarify something. The last time I made a change to my medication was on the 21st of September. Do you recommend that I wait two weeks from that date before starting my taper properly or two weeks from when I started to feel relatively stable again? 

[Altostrata]

I posted on October 26. The 2 weeks start October 26.

[Nicjk]

45 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I posted on October 26. The 2 weeks start October 26.

Thank you for clarifying @Altostrata. With Olanzapine, is it harder to get off the drug the longer you’re on it? I so badly want to taper off it but I’m concerned about making the Christmas period miserable for my family

[Nicjk]

On 11/4/2020 at 12:19 PM, Nicjk said:

Thank you @ChessieCat. It does seem that the long term (and short term) side effects of Olanzapine are worse than Diazepam. You are right about my doctor - she is not the one that has to put up with the side effects. I am starting my Olanzapine taper soon. Such a pity that I will most likely be suffering over the Christmas period when we’ll have lots of guests around 😢

@ChessieCat just wondering (I have also asked Altostrata this question) is it more difficult to get off Olanzapine the longer you are on it? The relationship with my husband is already strained because of how I've been over the last 6 months, so I am thinking about whether I should begin my taper before or after the Christmas period. I obviously want off the drug ASAP but I am also worried about my marriage 

[Altostrata]

It's not a good idea to make additional drug changes when you've had a bad reaction. Your nervous system is the judge of when you're ready to taper again.

 

How do you feel now?

[Nicjk]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It's not a good idea to make additional drug changes when you've had a bad reaction. Your nervous system is the judge of when you're ready to taper again.

 

How do you feel now?

It's really hard to say if the way I've felt recently is a bad reaction to the last time I changed my medication, or if it's just my regular mood. I have felt moderately down in the dumps every day for the last few weeks. Would it be better for me to wait until I feel less "down in the dumps" before making a change? 

[Altostrata]

If "moderately down in the dumps" is the only symptom you have that might be associated with withdrawal, you have very mild withdrawal. If it feels like your normal pre-drug baseline, you might need to learn techniques to manage it. See

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Up to you to decide whether you want to reduce again. If you have doubts, you might try a very small reduction and see what happens.

[Nicjk]

I would say that I definitely am experiencing withdrawals because I only suffered from anxiety before I started on meds - not depression. I am planning to try a 10% reduction on Monday. If I feel terrible after the reduction should I go back up to 5mg or just ride out the feelings? Thank you for your help 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[ChessieCat]

1 minute ago, Nicjk said:

I am planning to try a 10% reduction on Monday. If I feel terrible after the reduction should I go back up to 5mg or just ride out the feelings?

 

You could try a smaller reduction.  2.5%, 5%.  Or even smaller if you want to test to see how you respond.

 

Making a smaller reduction would be better than reducing by 10% and then updosing.

[Nicjk]

18 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

You could try a smaller reduction.  2.5%, 5%.  Or even smaller if you want to test to see how you respond.

 

Making a smaller reduction would be better than reducing by 10% and then updosing.

Thanks for the advice @ChessieCat. I have read through all of the info about using dissolvable olanzapine tablets to taper and I can't figure out how to make such tiny deductions using a syringe. I am planning to use a 20ml syringe which luckily does have 1ml markings but it's still going to be difficult to work out a 2.5% or 5% reduction. Any tips? 

[ChessieCat]

You can increase the amount of water you use and/or get smaller syringes.

 

I recently got mine on ebay from this seller who is in Australia.  I purchased 5 each of 1mL, 3mL, 5mL and 10mL (it was only a little bit more to get 5 than the cost for buying only one, except the 1mL).  Total cost:  $16.90.

 

And they do Click and Collect too.

 

Current delivery date:

Postage:

FAST 'N FREE

Between Wed. 11 Nov. and Thu. 12 Nov. (to my location)

[Nicjk]

Wow super helpful of you, thank you @ChessieCat I appreciate it. I have sat down and worked out a way to do a 5% reduction using my 20ml syringe. My brain is terrible when it comes to numbers so I enlisted a family member to help me. Tomorrow I will make a 5% reduction of my olanzapine and will report back. Thanks again. 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[Nicjk]

On 11/7/2020 at 10:29 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

You could try a smaller reduction.  2.5%, 5%.  Or even smaller if you want to test to see how you respond.

 

Making a smaller reduction would be better than reducing by 10% and then updosing.

Hi @ChessieCat, I did a 5% reduction of olanzapine on Monday and so far the only effect I've had is my sleep being a bit more broken. The first night I woke up at a very early (dark) hour and then not sure if I fully went back to sleep or if I tossed and turned, and then last night I had a restless night. I haven't felt down in the dumps or an increase in anxiety at all, which is great. Do you think I should try a 10% reduction next week? @Altostrata mentioned that I could try doing weekly reductions because I haven't been on olanzapine for a very long time.