Estman: reducing Anafranil, withdrawal symptoms

[Estman]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes.  Go to the Symptoms and Self Care forum and type CBD in the search bar.

Thank you!

[Estman]

17 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes.  Go to the Symptoms and Self Care forum and type CBD in the search bar.

I got clarity and it is definitely not suitable for relieving withdrawal symptoms, it is too dangerous.
  Although after what I've learned from psych drugs I'm pretty gunshy about doing anything with neurotransmitters.

[Ryder]

Hi Estman, 

 

I am taking Anafranil. Good to finally meet someone taking the same drug. 

 

I have gone through your thread. Please don't take any Diazepam. I am taking Diazepam and am totally dependent on it, the withdrawals are not worth it. I use the Anafranil for sleep as it makes me Drowsy and gives a sedative effect. I have just made a 0.5 reduction in Diazepam and can feel even that perhaps was too soon for me to taper. 

[Estman]

On 11/6/2022 at 1:49 PM, Ryder said:

Hi Estman, 

 

I am taking Anafranil. Good to finally meet someone taking the same drug. 

 

I have gone through your thread. Please don't take any Diazepam. I am taking Diazepam and am totally dependent on it, the withdrawals are not worth it. I use the Anafranil for sleep as it makes me Drowsy and gives a sedative effect. I have just made a 0.5 reduction in Diazepam and can feel even that perhaps was too soon for me to taper. 

Hi Ryder,

I try to stay off Diazepam
But sometimes when there has been a very big wave of depression and despair, I have taken a small dose and it makes it worse
The withdrawal symptoms of this clomipramine are also very severe for me.

Have you also reduced Anafranil and how was the experience?

 

[Ryder]

1 hour ago, Estman said:

Have you also reduced Anafranil and how was the experience?

 

Yes, I have tried to reduce. The experience has not been as bad as other drugs that I have used. I don't sleep much so the plus side of using it has been that you can sleep as needed. 

 

Other than that, it was not as bad as other drugs I have tried. 

[Estman]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:33 PM, Ryder said:

 

Yes, I have tried to reduce. The experience has not been as bad as other drugs that I have used. I don't sleep much so the plus side of using it has been that you can sleep as needed. 

 

Other than that, it was not as bad as other drugs I have tried. 

Hi Ryder,

Does diazepam also produce longer waves?
Do Anafranil waves feel different than Diazepam?
With Anafranil, I often have waves for 1-2 weeks in a row
There are usually two such waves in about 40 days
If there is a wave, it is particularly extreme for 5-7 days
With diazepam, I have experienced great tension and anxiety after a few days, but it passes.

[Ryder]

I would say Diazepam is worse. It’s a tranquilliser. 

[Altostrata]

Are you taking diazepam now, @Estman?

[Estman]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Are you taking diazepam now, @Estman?

No, the last time I took 2.5 mg at night in July when I had a heavy wave.
I took one time but it makes it worse

[Estman]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:00 AM, Altostrata said:

Are you taking diazepam now, @Estman?

Hi,

Haven't taken any other medication for months and this can't be a side effect of them

I am 30 days since the last dose reduction
During this time, there have been two heavier waves, both of which lasted about 8-10 days
During waves, there is usually a lot of irritability and agitation and other symptoms.
Sometimes, on the 30th day, there is mainly this kind of mediocre depression or anhedonia.
There is also some kind of mental and also physical fatigue or weakness
I would like to do errands and work, but my body, especially my limbs and legs, are somehow weak and painful. This is a disturbing feeling.
Especially in the evening, the legs are restless, and this restlessness also causes restless sleep.
At the same time, the feeling is as if the legs and arms are weak.
I usually get restless legs when I am relaxed and there is no wave.
I have never had restless legs during heavy waves.
What symptom is it that the limbs are so weak, is it still the restless legs syndrome? Or is it a withdrawal symptom?
I read that if there is genuine anxiety and agitation, then noradrenaline is too high in the pregnant blood and also causes the fight-flight reaction (together with cortisol).
However, if the level of noradrenaline is too low, there is brain fog, lethargy and fatigue.
Do my current symptoms indicate that my noradrenaline level is currently too low?
Tricyclic antidepressants act on several neurotransmitters.

[Ryder]

On 11/26/2022 at 9:32 PM, Estman said:

I would like to do errands and work, but my body, especially my limbs and legs, are somehow weak and painful.

 

I get this because I take the exact same drug as you. 

 

I give my body rest and time to catch up instead of making a reduction.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by Ryder
Editing1

[Estman]

6 hours ago, Ryder said:

 

I get this because I take the exact same drug as you. 

 

I give my body rest and time to catch up instead of making a reduction.  

Yes, this disturbing symptom.
I don't know if it precedes the wave because yesterday I started a heavier wave even though it has been 32 days since the last reduction.
Around noon yesterday, I felt very tired.
Unfortunately, I ate meat and a little nuts and plantains in addition to a light lunch.
Since the evening, digestion has stopped, and the whole night there was a desire to vomit.
I usually have this nausea and weakness together when the wave starts to pass, usually the wave is on day 8-9.
Within a month I already had two waves and the last week was tolerable
I don't know if it's something to do with the food, but my digestion seems to be very slow, my stomach is hard to the touch.
At night I was so nauseous that I couldn't fall asleep
There is also a constant desire to vomit today.
I haven't gotten a stomach virus either, because I have it with this clomipramine.
It is strange that a month has passed and this symptom is so intense.
At the same time, there is also great weakness and depression, also anxiety.
This clomipramine is a very nasty drug

[Ryder]

Yes, this happens because Clomipromine slows the digestive system and your metabolism. 
 

Constipation was the top side effect of the drug and I haven’t met anyone who didn’t mention their digestive system using it. One thing that did help though was drinking plenty of water. Have you tried this ? 
 

Ryder. 

[Estman]

7 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Yes, this happens because Clomipromine slows the digestive system and your metabolism. 
 

Constipation was the top side effect of the drug and I haven’t met anyone who didn’t mention their digestive system using it. One thing that did help though was drinking plenty of water. Have you tried this ? 
 

Ryder. 

I will try more water again.
Today has been a total nightmare and anxiety all day.
The pulse is constantly above 90 beats per minute.
There is constant despair
My waves usually start with more fatigue or obsessive thoughts.
It is usually the inability to fall asleep because of a fast pulse and great anxiety all night, as well as the desire to vomit.
Meanwhile, it was bearable
I have to keep it longer for sure.
I'm worried that if I ever give up the medication completely, I'll have panic all the time.
This is also a compulsion and is not rational

M

[Estman]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:10 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes.  Go to the Symptoms and Self Care forum and type CBD in the search bar.

I don't take fish oil either, maybe I should take it in winter

I wonder if drinking tea can trigger a wave like coffee?
I drank a little more two days to rehydrate and now it's been 6 days with a heavy wave. I read that tea can contain L-theanine?
It's been 35 days since the last reduction and already 3 heavy waves in that time
At the moment, there is extreme agitation-anxiety, and after some time it alternates again into great depression-despair. It is particularly disturbing that along with depression there is a great powerlessness, sometimes I can't even speak.
Last night and at first there was severe obsessive-compulsive fear, apathy, nothing interested me anymore, then severe depression
Anxiety is often accompanied by great nausea, as if you want to vomit, but you can't.
When I have a severe wave, for some reason it seems that only I have it so extreme because of the tricyclic medicine
Hopefully I'm wrong and it's universal.
This year I will definitely keep the dose and not change it.
I live in Northern Europe, and the sun has not tasted here for the past month
It is dark and snowy.

[Estman]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:18 PM, Ryder said:

Yes, this happens because Clomipromine slows the digestive system and your metabolism. 
 

Constipation was the top side effect of the drug and I haven’t met anyone who didn’t mention their digestive system using it. One thing that did help though was drinking plenty of water. Have you tried this ? 
 

Ryder. 

HI Ryder,

I have hard digestive even now 35 days after the last reduction, I have to eat very carefully, little and simple things. I have to take a longer break soon, because in the last month there have already been 3 strong waves. It is especially difficult with clomipramine below 10mg a day. Higher doses, sometimes it was possible to reduce 7 -8 percent, now only 2-3 percent and the waves recur. What was your experience with Seroquel?
Did Seroquel reduce your compulsions or fears

Isn't it more innocent than Diazepam? I probably already know the answer.

I live in a terrible place , it has not been sunny for a month and it is snowing. You are happier in this regard because you can also see the sun

[Ryder]

How much movement do you do during the day such as walking, chores or sitting down ?

[Estman]

6 hours ago, Ryder said:

How much movement do you do during the day such as walking, chores or sitting down ?

I don't move much, mostly indoors and I do things in my workshop.
I don't have much energy because I'm often very tired.
During the waves, I often have extreme weakness or weakness, I can't even speak.
But I try to move more, even walk for 5 minutes
But the problem is still about this clomipramine

[Ryder]

There is your problem. 

[Estman]

3.12.2022 kell 13:12 ütles Ryder:

Seal on teie probleem.

Mis on teie probleem?

[Estman]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:10 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes.  Go to the Symptoms and Self Care forum and type CBD in the search bar.

 

On 11/6/2022 at 12:10 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes.  Go to the Symptoms and Self Care forum and type CBD in the search bar.

Has acupuncture been used to treat withdrawal symptoms?
Is there such a topic in the forum?

[Estman]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:10 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Happy end of the year Chessie!
can clomipramine cause low stomach acid?
Is lack of stomach acid a withdrawal symptom?

[Estman]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:20 AM, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Have you had a headache as a withdrawal symptom before?

 

When I made a reduction too soon right at the start of my taper I got a headache and ear pain.  I took a cold medicine thinking it was blocked ears and would help, but it didn't.  I did a tiny updose and about 4 hours later the headache and blocked ears cleared.

 

Please note that I am only telling you what happened to me.  I don't know if this will work for you.

 

If you do updose only increase by a tiny amount.  You haven't updated your drug signature with the reductions so I don't know how much your doses have been.

Hi,

I have developed low stomach acidity and at the same time histamine intolerance, I often have headaches again.
This is probably related to clomipramine withdrawal.
I can't digest protein and have lost weight.
There is also a lot of nausea and food stays in the intestines for too long.
I can't eat protein-rich foods.
What could be done in such a situation?
Antihistamines further reduce stomach acid

[Erfan]

I got histamine intolerance after coming off my SSRI. It's quite common. It takes time to readjust back to baseline.

[Ryder]

Yes, you will get that including the stomach acid you mentioned. 

[Estman]

10 hours ago, Erfan said:

I got histamine intolerance after coming off my SSRI. It's quite common. It takes time to readjust back to baseline.

Hi,

I also seem to have developed low stomach acid
It wasn't there before
Histamine was supposed to activate the production and secretion of stomach acid.
Since I have also had histamine intolerance for a year, I have been taking histamine probiotics since the summer
A product like HistaminiX (www.seekinghealt.com)
I took it for two months in late summer and early fall
In the meantime, I didn't take it and then I started again on November 20 until Christmas
Before Christmas, the digestion became very bad
After eating, there was a very heavy feeling in the stomach and the food remained fermenting
Nasty gas, bloating, severe nausea, weakness, brain fog and depression, fatigue
Where I live, the weather is very bad right now
It is very humid and cold, it snows and then rains again.
In such weather, digestion is especially bad.
I can't eat dairy products and sweet things anymore.
There are also difficulties with protein digestion
I also did vitamin tests last week, but there are no answers yet.
Apparently, there has also been a shortage of important vitamins.
I have lost weight in the last six months.
I have the feeling that even though I eat high-quality food, my body cannot absorb nutrients.
I went to the doctor over Christmas and he prescribed an antacid.
I took it for a week and it got worse and worse
I stopped when I realized that I had too little stomach acid
I am now on day three of a stomach acid supplement
It is a little better, but a few hours after eating, fermentation still occurs in the intestines and the eyes become watery, as if they are not digesting
It's like toxins are created in the body and it sometimes lasts for 10-15 hours.
Apparently there is an overgrowth of intestinal bacteria
I read that such things happen with low stomach acid
So I don't know what to do
 

[Tulip52]

Interesting.  Twenty days into my last slow taper down I am starting with body aches, headache and a runny nose and I was wondering if this could be a symptom of withdrawal.

[Ryder]

Headaches possibly. Running nose nope that's most likely a cold but I would recommend to get that checked through your local GP. 

[Estman]

On 1/11/2023 at 3:06 AM, Ryder said:

Headaches possibly. Running nose nope that's most likely a cold but I would recommend to get that checked through your local GP. 

Hi,

Can Pau d Arco supplement trigger histamine or increase histamine levels?
I have to take it for two weeks because of bacterial overgrowth in my small intestine
But now it's like severe histamine intolerance symptoms
There is severe watery and stinging of the eyes, also a runny nose, and other symptoms that are usually associated with high histamine.

maybe someone can answer

I also had a headache yesterday

[littlebird]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:12 AM, Estman said:

Has acupuncture been used to treat withdrawal symptoms?
Is there such a topic in the forum?

Not sure if there’s a topic in the forum, but I can attest to the power of a good acupuncturist. It also seems to help with the whole system, not just what I went in there for. Pretty astounding results! Also, my acupuncturist many years ago was the first person to raise the idea to me that lifelong psych drugs weren’t in fact healthy or safe, and didn’t have to be a life sentence just because other people in my family took them their whole lives. At the time, it blew my mind. Couldn’t find a doctor to agree, and took me some time to find y’all here, but she set me on this course!

[Ryder]

I am sorry to hear that @littlebird. How are you doing with your taper ? 
 

That’s a nice story that you found good advice through acupuncture doctor. He sounds like he has your best interests at heart. 

[peaceandlove]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:51 AM, Estman said:

Hi,

I also seem to have developed low stomach acid
It wasn't there before
Histamine was supposed to activate the production and secretion of stomach acid.
Since I have also had histamine intolerance for a year, I have been taking histamine probiotics since the summer
A product like HistaminiX (www.seekinghealt.com)
I took it for two months in late summer and early fall
In the meantime, I didn't take it and then I started again on November 20 until Christmas
Before Christmas, the digestion became very bad
After eating, there was a very heavy feeling in the stomach and the food remained fermenting
Nasty gas, bloating, severe nausea, weakness, brain fog and depression, fatigue
Where I live, the weather is very bad right now
It is very humid and cold, it snows and then rains again.
In such weather, digestion is especially bad.
I can't eat dairy products and sweet things anymore.
There are also difficulties with protein digestion
I also did vitamin tests last week, but there are no answers yet.
Apparently, there has also been a shortage of important vitamins.
I have lost weight in the last six months.
I have the feeling that even though I eat high-quality food, my body cannot absorb nutrients.
I went to the doctor over Christmas and he prescribed an antacid.
I took it for a week and it got worse and worse
I stopped when I realized that I had too little stomach acid
I am now on day three of a stomach acid supplement
It is a little better, but a few hours after eating, fermentation still occurs in the intestines and the eyes become watery, as if they are not digesting
It's like toxins are created in the body and it sometimes lasts for 10-15 hours.
Apparently there is an overgrowth of intestinal bacteria
I read that such things happen with low stomach acid
So I don't know what to do
 

I’m also going through digestive problems. how is that acid supplement your taking, is it working ? @Estman

[Estman]

12 hours ago, peaceandlove said:

I’m also going through digestive problems. how is that acid supplement your taking, is it working ? @Estman

I don't have a solution yet.
I last reduced 11 days ago by 1.5% only but again for the last 4 days very bad nausea and as if digestion stops
I also tried a stomach acid supplement yesterday, but it didn't help
I usually feel better about 2 hours after eating, but then I feel nauseous and dizzy again, and the food seems to be fermenting inside.
If I eat lightly at 7 in the evening, I wake up around 1 or 2 in the morning with the urge to vomit
So nausea usually starts 2-3 hours after eating and often lasts for several days.
It is especially disturbing that along with nausea there is also severe dizziness.
I don't know if it's the lack of stomach acid or the slow movement of the intestines.-gastoparesis
Or the vagus nerve is damaged, which also affects the intestines
It is certain that Laine is at the moment too, because she has had very bad dreams for four nights already
Please note that when there is nausea and digestion is wasted, there are often nightmares.
Nausea and dizziness cause me great frustration because I don't know how to relieve it.
I already eat little protein and mostly plant-based

[peaceandlove]

2 hours ago, Estman said:

I don't have a solution yet.
I last reduced 11 days ago by 1.5% only but again for the last 4 days very bad nausea and as if digestion stops
I also tried a stomach acid supplement yesterday, but it didn't help
I usually feel better about 2 hours after eating, but then I feel nauseous and dizzy again, and the food seems to be fermenting inside.
If I eat lightly at 7 in the evening, I wake up around 1 or 2 in the morning with the urge to vomit
So nausea usually starts 2-3 hours after eating and often lasts for several days.
It is especially disturbing that along with nausea there is also severe dizziness.
I don't know if it's the lack of stomach acid or the slow movement of the intestines.-gastoparesis
Or the vagus nerve is damaged, which also affects the intestines
It is certain that Laine is at the moment too, because she has had very bad dreams for four nights already
Please note that when there is nausea and digestion is wasted, there are often nightmares.
Nausea and dizziness cause me great frustration because I don't know how to relieve it.
I already eat little protein and mostly plant-based

Yeah idk I honestly think it has nothing to do with stomach acid as I’ve been taking a supplement too for months that has 5 star reviews by thousands of ppl curing acid reflex by correcting your stomach ph & it has done nothing for me. Gavison barely works for me too. I’m positive this is just a motility issue from problems of our nerves, vagus nerve or seratonin in our stomach. Have you tried switching to an easy to digest diet & only eating those type of foods? That’s what I have been recommended by everyone on here @Estman

[savinggrace]

Taking digestive enzymes and/or increasing stomach will adjust the rate at which your meds metabolize. They put me into acute w/d immediately. I just keep adjusting my diet as you already noted you have been advised…

 

There is no quick fix or easy answer. I have all the digestive symptoms you list (possibly more) I take no supplements for digestion but I eat very carefully and have to adjust from meal to meal. EVERY supplement or drug affects the metabolism of your meds…even vitamins. 
 

Grace

[Estman]

19 hours ago, peaceandlove said:

Yeah idk I honestly think it has nothing to do with stomach acid as I’ve been taking a supplement too for months that has 5 star reviews by thousands of ppl curing acid reflex by correcting your stomach ph & it has done nothing for me. Gavison barely works for me too. I’m positive this is just a motility issue from problems of our nerves, vagus nerve or seratonin in our stomach. Have you tried switching to an easy to digest diet & only eating those type of foods? That’s what I have been recommended by everyone on here @Estman

Yes, it could be a problem with the motility of the stomach
I have also tried the nao acid food supplement, but it does not eliminate the problem.
I also eat little at a time and quality food
Okkagi gets a bubbling feeling in the stomach 2-3 hours after eating,
Brain fog, fatigue and dizziness
Certainly, the food stays in the stomach or intestines for too long to ferment.
I've been trying to eat little protein and fat, but I'm still very weak
If before I often had higher blood pressure, now it's normal, even 115/75 after lunch, pulse 80-85
Since I can't eat hearty meals, I have lost 10-15 kilograms.
I wonder if the motility of the stomach is slow due to damage to the vagus nerve or what could it be caused by?
And will this situation ever recover?