Estman: reducing Anafranil, withdrawal symptoms

[Estman]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:28 PM, Altostrata said:

What exactly were your last 3 reductions, and when did your withdrawal symptoms start to ramp up?

 

We're very clear that if you find you get withdrawal symptoms from your tapering rate, which in your case might be ~8% per month, to reduce the rate of taper. This has never been a secret. You have to negotiate your rate of taper with your own nervous system, not with anyone on this site.

When I reduced Anafranil to 8.5% in early October, it was too much.
After that, I stayed at the same dose for two months and finally stabilized nicely
I wanted to try this time to reduce to a lower dose and several times
I cut 16 days ago 6-7%
However, many withdrawal symptoms were tolerable
I thought that if I haven't had any severe symptoms then I can reduce it a bit more, 4 days ago I cut 3%
Yesterday, the third day, went totally bad
It started on the second or third day with great fatigue and a fast pulse in the afternoon
Last night was horrible, unable to fall asleep before morning
There was a constant state of despair and agitation.
For the third day, there is a fast pulse and in the evening also high blood pressure
There is insane anxiety and a tight feeling in the head
This afternoon I tried to get some rest and get some sleep for 1 hour.

Waking up with a particularly fast pulse and panic
I woke up with a very fast pulse and high blood pressure.
I don't know what to do
If I take Betaloc heart rate monitor I can't sleep at night because it causes insomnia
Does it seem to me that the last two cuts overlapped anyway?
Blood pressure fluctuates, in some places 155/103 pulse 80 and then, for example, 172/98, a quarter of an hour later it may be 148/95
It is extremely bad to be
The high pressure makes the head ache

[Estman]

On 11/2/2021 at 1:16 PM, Carmie said:

Hi Estman, 

 

I’m sorry you’re getting side effects from the blood pressure medications. I don’t know anything much about blood pressure medication. My blood pressure is the opposite, it’s really low. I’m faint all the time, I’m always having to sit and lie down. I can’t stand in one spot for any length of time.  
 

I do know that anything one takes can affect withdrawals, even supplements. I don’t do well with fish oil, so I eat lots of salmon and oily fish. 
 

One of the meds you mentioned is a beta blocker. There is a thread in self care on that. Just put beta blockers in the search section above and there will be different ones discussing them. I don’t have a computer, just my iPad, and I don’t know how to add links. 
 

Take care🤗

Hi,

Too high a level of cortisol causes high blood pressure
My blood pressure is usually normal, but it goes away after the dose is cut

I read that most modern antidepressants affect cortisol levels.
Can Anafranil (clomipramine) lower cortisol levels in the same way?
Does this mean that if I cut my dose, will my cortisol levels rise temporarily and cause sleep disturbances, cortisol jumps?
When I have had high anxiety for a week, it often turns into depression and great fatigue
Is the cortisol level insufficient then?

[Estman]

 

 Hi everybody!

It's been exactly a month since the last cut
I cut to 7% at the end of November and then stayed at that dose for 12 days
I saw that it wasn't the worst and thought I could reduce it a little more
On December 7, I reduced another 3%
Unfortunately, that was a mistake
There was a heavy wave in December
Then for a week it seemed to return to normal
On the last day of the year, the big wave started again
The wave usually lasts for 10-12 days
January 7 was already a little better and I thought I could have a romantic time with my wife
Unfortunately, it made things worse.
At the moment, there is great depression, anxiety and compulsions again
It seems to me that sex makes the withdrawal symptoms harder again
I couldn't fall asleep the next night, fast pulse and high blood pressure again
There is constant restlessness and agitation
It seems that in my case it cannot be reduced several times
Two weeks is too little.
Could it be that after the second reduction, even a month later, there will be such a wave? 
 

[ChessieCat]

I am not sure what celebrations you have where you live.  For other members who I know celebrate various things at the end of the year I make the suggestion that It might have been caused by stress from the holiday season.  Some members have had waves happen whilst on holidays and/or on their return.

 

Any additional stress can cause withdrawal symptoms to worsen.  For example, if you have had an argument with your partner or a stressful time at work.  It can be helpful to look back to see what things you have been doing, or what has been happening, before the wave/s hit.  It might not be only the reduction which caused the worsening.

[Estman]

14 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I am not sure what celebrations you have where you live.  For other members who I know celebrate various things at the end of the year I make the suggestion that It might have been caused by stress from the holiday season.  Some members have had waves happen whilst on holidays and/or on their return.

 

Any additional stress can cause withdrawal symptoms to worsen.  For example, if you have had an argument with your partner or a stressful time at work.  It can be helpful to look back to see what things you have been doing, or what has been happening, before the wave/s hit.  It might not be only the reduction which caused the worsening.

Yes, the holidays are stressful for me,but
It is very dark here in the Nordic countries in December (sunrise from 3.30 pm)
But now there is definitely a wave
It seems to me that the last two cuts have joined
7% at the end of November and another 3% on 10 December, then a total of 10%
I was hoping that if there was an interval of about two weeks, such severe symptoms would not occur
Dr. Mark Horowitz writes in his article that tricyclic drug withdrawal causes cholinergic symptoms
What are these symptoms?
If Clomipramine is anticholinergic, are the symptoms caused by too high levels of acetylcholine?
So it's a lot of restlessness, agitation, nausea and a fast pulse?
I have a very bad sleep right now, I wake up many times a night with fear and anxiety
There is a fast pulse throughout the night and high blood pressure due to anxiety
If I don't have a wave, my blood pressure is normal.
Three days ago it seemed a little better and I had sex for a long time
Immediately the wave became heavy again
Are these things related?
I was hoping to be calm at the end of the year, but unfortunately the waves are unpredictable
I'm pretty disappointed that the end of the year and the beginning of the new year are so gone.

[Estman]

One symptom that has occurred during a wave is pain in the body
Limbs such as the hands and feet look sore, and the back and neck often hurt.
I have definitely not exercised physically and it seems to be related to my mood
I take Clomipramine once a day at 3 p.m.
Usually between 13-15 there is drowsiness and I want to sleep
There is usually a cold feeling under the deck
But at around 4pm or 5pm, for example, there are often hot flashes
In general, the first half of the day is a little better and there is always a lot of anxiety, hot flushes, high blood pressure, headaches or something else in the evening.
In the evening and especially at night, there is extreme anxiety, a fast pulse and a desire to escape
It often does not allow you to fall asleep earlier than the second half of the night
Seizures of despair are common during a wave
There is a constant irritation in the head

[Blossom71]

3 hours ago, Estman said:

Yes, the holidays are stressful for me,but
It is very dark here in the Nordic countries in December (sunrise from 3.30 pm

Hi @Estman

 

sunrise at 3.30pm???   Wow!

 

Do you do anything to help with the lack of light?

 

Years ago (long before I was anti depressants) I noticed that from October to around March my menstrual cycles went nuts and I had horrendous  symptoms of PMS. I was irrational and angry all the time and felt completely frazzled. It took me 3 winters  of research to work out that it was because of the lack of sunlight = SAD.

 

I bought a Lumie alarm clock and a light box and although I’m in the Uk (so much more daylight than you will get) it was a total life changer.  Are these things commonly used in Nordic countries?

 

 

[Estman]

On 1/11/2022 at 5:29 PM, Blossom71 said:

Hi @Estman

 

sunrise at 3.30pm???   Wow!

 

Do you do anything to help with the lack of light?

 

Years ago (long before I was anti depressants) I noticed that from October to around March my menstrual cycles went nuts and I had horrendous  symptoms of PMS. I was irrational and angry all the time and felt completely frazzled. It took me 3 winters  of research to work out that it was because of the lack of sunlight = SAD.

 

I bought a Lumie alarm clock and a light box and although I’m in the Uk (so much more daylight than you will get) it was a total life changer.  Are these things commonly used in Nordic countries?

 

 

Hi Blossom,

Currently, the sun rises around 9 in the morning and sets at around 4 p.m.
In December, the sun set at about 3:30 p.m.
Yes, it definitely does
I already have a hard wave for 2 weeks
I am also very sensitive to changes in the weather
The day before yesterday it was 5 degrees cold and quiet, high pressure
Yesterday and today it is 5 degrees warm, a storm wind and I immediately had a very severe headache-migraine
In addition, total anxiety, fast pulse, high blood pressure.
I guess I've cut too much
7% at the end of November and another 3% on 10 December
Too much for me
It's hard to get stable now in January

[Estman]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:57 PM, ChessieCat said:

I am not sure what celebrations you have where you live.  For other members who I know celebrate various things at the end of the year I make the suggestion that It might have been caused by stress from the holiday season.  Some members have had waves happen whilst on holidays and/or on their return.

 

Any additional stress can cause withdrawal symptoms to worsen.  For example, if you have had an argument with your partner or a stressful time at work.  It can be helpful to look back to see what things you have been doing, or what has been happening, before the wave/s hit.  It might not be only the reduction which caused the worsening.

Hi Chessie,

Can a single dose of Glycine affect serotonin levels?
Since my sleep has been bad, I ordered 1000 mg of Glycine capsules as a sample
I tried 4 days ago in the evening, at first I had a good feeling, later a very confused and painful sleep.
The next two days, however, were severe digestive problems — nausea and flatulence
Now half a day yesterday was relatively normal, but after lunch I became extremely tired
There was also a severe depression, probably a new wave
In the evening there were strong compulsions and fears
Last night was a total anxiety, I couldn't fall asleep at all
In the last few years, I've still been able to sleep for at least a few hours
At the same time, there is great depression and despair
However, 23 days have passed since the last cut and it was only 5%

 

[Estman]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:43 PM, Altostrata said:

Perhaps you should updose by 4% to address those withdrawal symptoms.

30 days (only 5%) since my last dose reduction
There have been 2 major waves during this time
Currently, the last wave is 8 days
The first half of the day until 14 in the afternoon was generally tolerated
Then I rested and slept for 1-1.5 hours as usual
When I woke up at 4pm, I was in extreme tiredness again
This has been the case for some time.
Is such a thing normal and will it pass?
I have not overworked and I do light activities-
So extreme fatigue makes me scared

[Estman]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:48 AM, Carmie said:

That sounds like a good plan Estman, and definitely hold until you stabilise again. If you don’t you’ll just end up making your waves longer and you won’t get to your destination any quicker. You’ll just suffer more. 
 

And, yes, we still get waves and any of the withdrawal symptoms whether we are tapering high or low doses.

 

Take care🤗

Hi Carmie
There are 30 days after the 5% reduction
At the moment, however, I am suffering from extreme fatigue
There has been a severe depression lately
Today the first half of the day was better and I did a light job.
In the afternoon, however, extreme fatigue arose again
The head is completely dizzy and anxiety in addition.
Depression today was less, but the fatigue was just very excruciating.
Have you had the same thing that extreme fatigue?
Is it transient?
Have you been tired while you can sleep?

[Altostrata]

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with dosages? How do you feel before and after taking Anafranil? How has your symptom pattern changed in the last month?

[Estman]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with dosages? How do you feel before and after taking Anafranil? How has your symptom pattern changed in the last month?

I am currently taking clomipramine once a day at 2 p.m.
The daily dose is 15mg
The last dose cuts have been:
28.11.21 cut 7%
10.12.21 cut 3%
and the last cut was 22.01.22 5% (31 days ago)

It has usually been better in the first half of the day and worse in the evening
This is when I have been asleep and have not had extreme anxiety

Last month's symptom pattern:

22.01.22 I fell asleep, my sleep was disturbed, my stomach gas, my body was tired
the first half of the day, however, more or less normal.There was no anxiety or depression
There is only a certain amount of fatigue and apathy
Moderate headache in the evening.
Day 2: Indigestion-moderate nausea
Day 3: Feeling sick and nausea.
Day 4: General restlessness, moderate nausea
Day 5: Great fatigue and feeling sick
Day 6: Severe head irritation, restlessness, rapid pulse,
Day 7: Difficult to fall asleep, very disturbed sleep, moderate nausea
Day 8: Eye-head fatigue and pain ,, pressure in the head, begins of stronger depression
Day 10: Severe depression
Day 11: Difficult to fall asleep, very poor sleep, severe depression, severe irritation in the head
Day 12: Depression, fear of compulsion, headache, restless legs, strong pressure in the head
Day 13: Extreme fatigue-weakness, internal tension, anxiety, compulsions-fears
Day 14: Severe night-time total anxiety, depression and despair
strong agitation, constant fight-escape reaction, strong feeling of hopelessness and anxiety, watery eyes, strong irritation in the head
Day 15: I slept more or less, severe depression during the day, compulsions-fears
Day 16: Moderate depression, restlessness, severe tension in the neck, watery eyes
Day 17: Fatigue, moderate depression
Day 18: Can't stand the load, fast tiredness, instability, restlessness, feeling bored
Day 19: Immediately tired in the morning, no energy, body pain, increased fatigue
Day 20: Diarrhea-nausea, Weakness and tiredness, dizziness, eye-headache, drowsiness
Day 21: rapid fatigue on the afternoon, diarrhea, malaise and nausea, worsening of abdominal pain
Day 22: Confusion, malaise and nausea, disturbing pressure on the head
Day 23: Severe nausea and diarrhea, confusion, drowsiness
Day 24: Extreme tiredness, major depression, major anxiety, onset of wave
Day 25: Total panic at night, unable to sleep at all, anxiety and despair, rapid pulse, head irritation, compulsive fear
Day 26: I fell asleep, very severe depression, extreme weak head pressure irritation, restlessness alternating with depression, abnormal weakness
Day 27: But I was asleep waking up with fear, anxiety-fear, despair, high internal tension, depression, nausea, high blood pressure, extreme tension
Day 28: Severe depression, rapid abdominal fatigue, severe irritation of the head
Day 29: Great fatigue, major depression and compulsions-fears, confusion,
Day 30: Depression, strong agitation, stomach problems, dyspepsia, head pressure
Day 31: Unreasonable fear, extreme fatigue, severe head irritation, moderate depression

[Altostrata]

What symptoms are new since you decreased clomipramine a month ago?

 

Over the last month, which symptoms have gotten better and which have gotten worse?

 

How do you feel before and after you take 15mg clomipramine at 2 p.m.?

[Estman]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What symptoms are new since you decreased clomipramine a month ago?

No completely new symptoms have been reported
A month ago, there was more nausea and restlessness, but less depression and fear
Now, more severe depression, fatigue and despair predominate
In the first week, the desire to do handicrafts was strong, the motivation was higher
Somewhere in 10 days, the depression became more severe and hopeless
There is also more fatigue right now

 

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Over the last month, which symptoms have gotten better and which have gotten worse?

Headaches and temperature fluctuations in the body are less
There is currently less high blood pressure

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

How do you feel before and after you take 15mg clomipramine at 2 p.m.?

I take my dose from the old habit at 2 p.m.
It has usually been better in the first half of the day, with more symptoms such as anxiety in the evenings
It is often more or less tolerable at 1 pm, but there is a rapid change
Usually 2 p.m-7 p.m is always worse,more depression and fatigue then in the evening a little better
There are constantly more severe symptoms during the waves.
For some reason, this winter will take longer to stabilize

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Estman said:

Headaches and temperature fluctuations in the body are less
There is currently less high blood pressure

 

This indicates you're going in the right direction by reducing.

 

Has the issue been that you reinstated too much Anafranil in 2019? Your signature is confusing.

[Estman]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:10 AM, Altostrata said:

 

This indicates you're going in the right direction by reducing.

 

Has the issue been that you reinstated too much Anafranil in 2019? Your signature is confusing.

yes, the first year probably got reduced too quickly
However, last year the amount of reduction was usually 7-10%
For some reason it is necessary to keep longer from autumn
And I switched from a full tablet to powder in the fall
I wonder if it changes the metabolism?
If I take a 10mg tablet with water or put a powder of the same strength on my tongue and drink water?
In the past, it generally stabilized in about 35 days
But in November-December I had to be on the same dose for almost two months (then there was a 10% reduction in total)
In the last 2 months I have reduced by only 5%
Today is 36 days after the last change, but unfortunately there is still a relatively large amount of depression and fatigue
This winter has been hard for me, there has been little work and it affects me too
Looks like I have agitated-anxious depression.
Some days there is more agitation-anxiety, a blocked-restrained feeling in the head
In addition, there is a lot of hopelessness and despair
The second day is again a lot of depression.
Our climate has been dark for the last few months and there is little sun, I hope that more sun will come soon than spring
I have to be 100% sure that it will always stabilize and not stay that way forever

[Estman]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:10 AM, Altostrata said:

 

This indicates you're going in the right direction by reducing.

 

Has the issue been that you reinstated too much Anafranil in 2019? Your signature is confusing.

I find this:

The withdrawal of tricyclic antidepressants produces symptoms characteristic of cholinergic overdrive states. The authors previously proposed that these states are the consequence of the pharmacological induction of cholinergic system supersensitivity by chronic treatment with antidepressants, combined with a reduction in the plasma level of a competitive muscarinic receptor antagonist when the dose of a tricyclic is decreased. This is consistent with the facts that all tricyclic antidepressants are antimuscarinic agents and that classical antimuscarinic compounds, such as scopolamine, up-regulate and supersensitize muscarinic cholinergic systems. The authors present evidence that chronic treatment with amitriptyline supersensitizes a central cholinergic mechanism. Core body temperature is subject to influence by a central (hypothalamic) muscarinic mechanism, which is rendered supersensitive to cholinomimetic challenge by treatment with scopolamine. The authors telemetrically measured the hypothermic responses of adult male rats to various doses of the muscarinic agonist oxotremorine before and in the course of chronic treatment with amitriptyline. Treatment with amitriptyline resulted in marked enhancement of the cholinomimetic-induced hypothermia. Methylscopolamine nitrate, a peripherally active antimuscarinic agent, did not block the hypothermic response to oxotremorine, whereas scopolamine, a centrally active antimuscarinic compound, did. This study indicates that the chronic administration of amitriptyline can produce supersensitivity of a central muscarinic cholinergic mechanism. Clinical and theoretical implications of this finding are discussed.

Does this mean that my main symptoms are due to a cholinergic rebound and there are palliative substances for it?
There are probably some neuroleptics, but isn't it good to start taking them?

[Estman]

And this:

 

Describes 3 patients (aged 27–52 yrs) who developed withdrawal symptoms—most notably sleep and gastrointestinal disorders—following discontinuation of antidepressants. These symptoms were successfully treated with atropine. The etiology of antidepressant withdrawal symptoms is traced to central cholinergic overdrive. (10 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)

 

Atropine relieves symptoms?

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Estman said:

Does this mean that my main symptoms are due to a cholinergic rebound and there are palliative substances for it?
There are probably some neuroleptics, but isn't it good to start taking them?

 

The withdrawal syndrome from tricyclics such as Anafranil probably does have a cholinergic rebound component, as these drugs are anti-cholinergic while the newer antidepressants (except for paroxetine) are not.

 

Some antihistamines are anti-cholinergic and also have rebound syndromes when abruptly discontinued (e.g. cetirizine). Diphenhydramine is often used to address withdrawal symptoms; it is also an over-the-counter sleep aid.

 

If you want to experiment with drug treatment for antidepressant withdrawal, please see a doctor and report results here.

 

11 hours ago, Estman said:

Looks like I have agitated-anxious depression.

 

Maybe you have the typical blues that occur during the end of a long winter.

[Estman]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

The withdrawal syndrome from tricyclics such as Anafranil probably does have a cholinergic rebound component, as these drugs are anti-cholinergic while the newer antidepressants (except for paroxetine) are not.

 

Some antihistamines are anti-cholinergic and also have rebound syndromes when abruptly discontinued (e.g. cetirizine). Diphenhydramine is often used to address withdrawal symptoms; it is also an over-the-counter sleep aid.

 

If you want to experiment with drug treatment for antidepressant withdrawal, please see a doctor and report results here.

 

 

Maybe you have the typical blues that occur during the end of a long winter.

Sometimes I try an antihistamine.
If you gave up Paroxetine, did you use such things?
What are these specific cholinergic symptoms?
I understand that Paroxetine has the same symptom

[Estman]

On 2/26/2022 at 9:51 PM, Altostrata said:

 

The withdrawal syndrome from tricyclics such as Anafranil probably does have a cholinergic rebound component, as these drugs are anti-cholinergic while the newer antidepressants (except for paroxetine) are not.

 

Some antihistamines are anti-cholinergic and also have rebound syndromes when abruptly discontinued (e.g. cetirizine). Diphenhydramine is often used to address withdrawal symptoms; it is also an over-the-counter sleep aid.

 

If you want to experiment with drug treatment for antidepressant withdrawal, please see a doctor and report results here.

 

 

Maybe you have the typical blues that occur during the end of a long winter.

There has been a lot of confusion and depression in the last few days, but it's a new way
1-2 weeks ago, it was basically just severe depression-anxiety and fatigue
At the moment (38 days) there is not so much fatigue, but there is a lot of despair.
There are very strong compulsions and fears.
It started with a headache, which I tried to relieve with ibuprofen
It did not work, at night I could not fall asleep again before morning. There was a constant feeling of hopelessness and despair
It seems to have been 3 harder waves in the last 38 days
Now we also have the first spring weather, but I don't think it's winter
In the last 3 months I have reduced 3 times, a total of 15%
I tried to explain to my doctor today that these symptoms are reducing but he did not understand me
That said, if you just want to miss the drug, it's just a relapse
But I didn't have such times of hopelessness-despair before.
Your doctor advised you to take Quetapin if needed, wasn't it an antipsychotic?
I am very confused at the moment and do not know why I have been stabilizing for so long
In the past, the symptoms have passed faster, and there is a fear that they will pass.
Sometimes you are tempted to stop taking the medicine.
But little by little, it should be better to give up.
Your personal experience was probably the cold turkey Paroxetine?
So my most severe symptom is hopelessness and despair, especially when it's at night.

Are feelings of hopelessness and despair symptoms of cholinergic rebound or is it something else?
Are there any techniques for this?

[Altostrata]

@Estman please re-read my answers in your topic.

[Estman]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:06 PM, Shep said:

 

I'm not sure you can check the strength of the pills, although you may want to reach out to your local pharmacist. Usually going a few weeks past an expiration date isn't a problem for tablets or powder (for liquid it's more important). But for an expiration date of 2 months for packages dated October 2020, that would mean you're now 8 months passed the December expiration. 

 

When you get your next set of packages, you may want to gradually transition to the new powder in case there is a change in strength. You could crossover to the new powder by 25% increments every few days to allow your nervous system to adjust. 

Levomepromazine?

Three days ago I was anxious in the evening and couldn't fall asleep
I only took 1 tablet of 5mg Levomepromazine
I could sleep for a few hours then.
I didn't take it last night because I had apathetic depression, which was probably a side effect of levomepromazine.
The first half of yesterday was more or less, then there was a lot of fatigue again
Last night there was extreme anxiety and tension and fear again
I couldn't sleep again at night, there was a lot of fear and despair all the time
Can a single tablet of Levopromazine cause withdrawal symptoms for 3 days when it leaves the blood?
There is also high blood pressure (Levomepromazine itself lowers pressure)

[Estman]

On 6/22/2020 at 12:07 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes, physical activity can cause withdrawal symptoms to increase.

 

-exercise-do-more-do-less-do-nothing-what-worked-for-you

 

It may also have caused the sleeplessness due to being overstimulated.

 

 

HI ChessieCat,

Does taking 1 tablet of Levomepromazine 5mg during a wave can cause withdrawal symptoms 2 days later ?
I took it with insomnia-anxiety 2 days ago, did not take yesterday and at night there was extreme anxiety-despair
Couldn't sleep at night at all and the insane tension in the body-extreme fear

[Estman]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:58 AM, Altostrata said:

@Estman please re-read my answers in your topic.

Please help!
I made a mistake 3 days ago
Just like 2 weeks ago, I couldn't sleep
I took 1 tablet of levomepromazine (5mg) with insomnia and anxiety on Sunday night, slept for a few hours
There was general confusion on Monday and apathetic depression in the evening
The next Tuesday night I was able to sleep a lot and the sleep was relatively normal.
Yesterday, there was no more apathetic depression, but after lunch there was a lot of fatigue
Last night a headache, great restlessness and agitation that turned into extreme fear-despair
The whole night was total despair, anguish and hopelessness
I couldn't sleep more than maybe an hour
I woke up at 5 with extreme fear
There has been constant fear, confusion and panic since last night.
I took 1/4 diazepam at night but no longer took Levopromazine.
Yesterday I took 10mg of Olmerzartan for high blood pressure and another tablet this morning.
I'm in complete constant panic-fear, I'm afraid I made a big mistake, could this be a setback for Levopromazine?
I highly ask for advice or something encouraging on what to do next
I am afraid that I will not be able to fall asleep with such fear.

[Altostrata]

I can't fix reactions from drug experiments. You just have to let them go away and stop experimenting. Please don't tag me again about this.

[savinggrace]

Hi Estman,

 

I mistakenly posted on Marie's thread a response about B vitamins and supplementing in general.  I can't seem to copy and paste it.  If you want to see it, I posted it today on Marie's thread.

 

Grace

[Estman]

On 4/15/2022 at 1:24 AM, savinggrace said:

Hi Estman,

 

I mistakenly posted on Marie's thread a response about B vitamins and supplementing in general.  I can't seem to copy and paste it.  If you want to see it, I posted it today on Marie's thread.

 

Grace

 

HI Crace!

I took vitamin B12 and folic acid for 10 days
Unfortunately, I have been left with a viral illness and have not wanted to take vitamin B in recent days.
I can't yet assess whether they are right for me or cause symptoms
On the one hand, my folate levels are too low (7.3nmol / L, must be in the range of 7-46nmol / L) but at the moment it is not yet possible to assess whether I can take them
I currently only take vitamin C and vitamin D3
I do not have a fever or other severe symptoms of the virus, but for 4-5 days I have been very weak and tired with feeling unwell.
The lymph in the neck is enlarged and inflamed in the body
It also makes you sneeze and feel sick
I ate garlic last night.
It was surprisingly good to be a few hours later
Unfortunately, at night the situation had completely changed, the sleep was extremely painful and confusing
I woke up many times a night and in fear every time
Do you have experience with garlic?
Feels like it's making the wave harder?
 

[Estman]

On 2/22/2022 at 8:54 AM, Altostrata said:

What symptoms are new since you decreased clomipramine a month ago?

 

Over the last month, which symptoms have gotten better and which have gotten worse?

 

How do you feel before and after you take 15mg clomipramine at 2 p.m.?

I apologize for the question
I've had a virus and a general sick feeling for a week - a great weakness
I ate some garlic yesterday
I'm not eating it
The reaction was strange, a few hours later it was relatively normal, the symptoms of the virus subsided in the evening, but today it is very bad again.
But at night there were totally distressing and confused dreams
I woke up every now and then, and digestion made a noise
Is there any information about garlic anywhere in this forum?
Can Garlic Cause Waves?

[Altostrata]

Have you skipped any doses of Anafranil? Have you taken any other drugs recently?

 

Maybe you have a virus.

[Estman]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Have you skipped any doses of Anafranil? Have you taken any other drugs recently?

 

Maybe you have a virus.

Between 4 and 13 April, I took B12 and folic acid
Not currently taking
I was on a 5% lower dose of Anafranil for two days
(April 14 and 15)
I ran out of doses at the pharmacy, and I've usually been on one dose for 35 days and then cut
Looks like the current paragraph was at the wrong time
I should probably recover more from the virus first
But is it possible that a 2 day lower dose is felt so quickly?
Withdrawal symptoms usually appear in 4-5 days, don't they?

I have a strange question
Yesterday was again a full month and there was great panic anxiety, high blood pressure and headaches-nausea from high blood pressure
For some reason, I always feel very bad during the full moon
It seems to me that it affects me, I have very bad dreams and a lot of anxiety
Could it be that way or is it my imagination. Strange

[Altostrata]

14 hours ago, Estman said:

But is it possible that a 2 day lower dose is felt so quickly?

 

Yes. We've told you repeatedly that you have to take the same dosage at the same times each day.

[Estman]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Yes. We've told you repeatedly that you have to take the same dosage at the same times each day.

Unfortunately, my questions were not answered

[Altostrata]

Is "yes" not enough of an answer?

 

If you skip doses, you set up a vulnerability to continuing odd symptoms. Skipping doses messes up your daily symptom pattern, possibly for a long while.

[savinggrace]

Hi Estman,

I responded to you on Marie's thread again.  I left it there as Marie was talking about B12 testing, but you will see my post if you go there. (sorry Marie that I keep making this mistake)  I can't seem to copy and paste it here and I don't want to write it all out again.  Sld co go to Marie's thread and read what I wrote.

 

I have done a ton of research and gone to a lot of doctors before figuring this out for myself.  The bottom line, though, for many of us ANY kind of change can cause disruptive and painful withdrawal symptoms and that includes healthy supplements.  Even though we need them it doesn't mean our brain can handle all the changes.

 

I would caution you to not even take even OTC pain relievers or anything you don't have to in this time of instability.  As far as my use of B12, I titrated up to a tolerable, but not easy dose of it.  I self-inject because of gut problems.  I am not absorbing needed nutrients.  That doesn't mean you have to.

 

Your B12 and folate are low but since you have done some supplementing, perhaps you should back off a while and try to stabilize.  You have too many variables going on here.  Believe me, I understand!  I really do.  That said, once sensitized our brains (those of us who are not so lucky) do not adjust well to change, especially supplements that are known to be stimulating.

 

Pay particular attention to the fact that testing B12 while taking B12 is an aritificial measure.  It has no correlation to what is actually usable by your body.  At one point my serum B12 was over 1000 but when tested properly, I was found to be grossly deficient.  I was not supplementing at the time of this high B12 test.  Then over the years my B12 plummeted to 112 and I got tested properly, before supplementing began and I found out I have a functional B12 deficiency.  It took me a long time to get the courage to actively supplement as I struggle so much to taper as I am so sick.  That said, my MMA and homocysteine put me at high risk for a heart attack or stroke so I got pretty motivated after that.

 

I  cannot say that I feel better yet.  My drugs, my constant withdrawal state and my poor nutrition have depleted my body so much.  That said, I was headed for a stroke or heart attack if I didn't start the supplements.

 

I went two years with all this knowledge before I started the injections.  My opinion, (not medical but based on the school of hard knocks) is to lay off all unnecessary supplementing and OTC drugs,  eat the best diet you can (google foods with high B12 and folate), exercise, and maybe stop tapering for a while until you feel much better.  

 

B12 and folic acid are generally supplemented together but you could take much less methylated folate than you are and likely help yourself (eventually) I think stopping the B vitamins for a while may help you quite a bit...not forever...just until you are more stable.   Better yet, if your digestion is good eat a lot of green leafy vegetables and other high folate foods.

 

Grace