dirtvoid: psychiatric survivor - year 3 of detox - 2 drugs to go

[dirtvoid]

Really deteriorating. Been almost a month since my last cut and getting worse 

 

Sleep is a struggle - I wake up not being able to breath - and  sometimes with mental and physical agitation,

 

last night I woke up with vertigo 

 

in the mornings I feel so drowsy and can’t wake up feel confused, disoriented, irregular heartbeat, dizziness, nausea. I throw up blood, dry wretch and stomach acid, drink electrolytes, have loose bowel movements repeatedly for the first few hours of the day. 

 

After I eat something basic like rice / oatmeal  my heart beats irregularly and my muscles get weak and I lay down and lose function, along with severe fatigue and mild confusion / disoriented.

I’m getting weaker and weaker, 

 

just drinking electrolytes to stay hydrated,

 

this is the worst it has been I think. Before I was frustrated that I found doing things so difficult and exhausting no I can’t even try and do things. 
 

i usually have 2-3 hours of the day of possibly activity.

 

doctors appointment tomorrow - to discuss the neurological symptoms. 
 

I’m really not sure how to care for myself when I’m this weak and fatigued.

mood is okay all things considered. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi dirtvoid,

And oh my.  Your first update sounded okay.  The one above sounds worse.

What happened?

 

It's possible that you are going too quickly with the Cymbalta taper.  I'd continue to hold, I did see that you last reduced a month ago.

And by how much, by what %, and what are you on now.

Can you update your signature?

 

 Sounds like you are taking care not to get dehydrated and that's good.  Did you get any blood work done.  Are you anemic?

 

We've got a topic on IBS, in WD, that I can link you with: Irritable bowel syndrome: Gut bacteria, and what you can do

 

Akathisia vs restlessness, anxiety, and agitation

Links to weighted blankets, in the first post, which can help, or some form of.

 

  

On 1/15/2021 at 5:09 PM, dirtvoid said:

Symptom that has been bothering me as the frequency of it has increased is at times both in the day and night I lose totally muscle function, demonic black masses drag me and start pushing me down - It's like sleep paralysis but it happens several times a day. Sometimes I lose consciousness and see black worms like serpents swimming in my brain - The meaning I make out of this is that withdrawal has made me vulnerable to a Dybbuk. I'm not sure these are seizure type things which I am prone to (because of psychiatric drugs)

 

And oh my.  This one ^, symptom..........sounds really tough.  I'm just amazed that you are out there or even online, or Zoom doing NA, and support, and as much as you do.

 

You are a trooper dirtvoid.  And yes, I do wonder on what's happened with your Lisdexamfetamine metabolism now too. 

And then you are still on the darn testosterone too, which is really outside of our scope.

 

I think I left you a couple questions, around the Cymbalta.  I want to get an idea of how quickly you are tapering that. 

When did the newer symptoms begin to arise?  How long ago?

 

Oh and best.  Hugs.

Thank you for updating.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 22, 2021 by manymoretodays

[dirtvoid]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi dirtvoid,

And oh my.  Your first update sounded okay.  The one above sounds worse.

What happened?

 

It's possible that you are going too quickly with the Cymbalta taper.  I'd continue to hold, I did see that you last reduced a month ago.

And by how much, by what %, and what are you on now.

Can you update your signature?

 

 Sounds like you are taking care not to get dehydrated and that's good.  Did you get any blood work done.  Are you anemic?

 

We've got a topic on IBS, in WD, that I can link you with: Irritable bowel syndrome: Gut bacteria, and what you can do

 

Akathisia vs restlessness, anxiety, and agitation

Links to weighted blankets, in the first post, which can help, or some form of.

 

  

 

And oh my.  This one ^, symptom..........sounds really tough.  I'm just amazed that you are out there or even online, or Zoom doing NA, and support, and as much as you do.

 

You are a trooper dirtvoid.  And yes, I do wonder on what's happened with your Lisdexamfetamine metabolism now too. 

And then you are still on the darn testosterone too, which is really outside of our scope.

 

I think I left you a couple questions, around the Cymbalta.  I want to get an idea of how quickly you are tapering that. 

When did the newer symptoms begin to arise?  How long ago?

 

Oh and best.  Hugs.

Thank you for updating.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

since the seizure over the weekend I’ve been progressively weaker and more disoriented. 
 

my last cut was 2 beads (10%)  but from here once I feel safe to am only going to cut 1 bead which would
6-7% and steadily increasing with each cut. I am at 2.5mg Cymbalta so I’ve cut 4 beads since November. 
 

my last FBC blood tests showed up normal - my stool sample showed up with raised calprolactin - which they said indicates an inflammation with  possible inflammatory bowel disease, I’m waiting for GI appointment to rule that out and until then very difficult to know what dietary path to take until IBD has been ruled out, especially when I’m so weak and food prep / shop / organisation is near impossible. 
 

the lisdexamfetamine is not doing me any me favours regarding my tachycardia and GI distress, CNS stimulation is the worst possible thing in my situation. Although I do appreciate the increased arousal and focus it gives me that allows me to be able to still read books. I’m pretty desperate to get off it and having to hold out another year and half until I’m done with the Cymbalta is frustrating. In hindsight I would’ve tapered it first and would highly recommend that to any one in the same position. 

Testosterone for me is a necessary drug and I’m well overdue to get my level checked. Given the pandemic and the fact I’m dealing with more urgent medical issues it’s been hard to stay on track with those tests.very little I can do about it I’ve been on the Gender Identity Clinic waiting list for 3 and half years. There is no long term research for it’s use in for people like me assigned female at birth. There is exactly zero studies in the interaction between testosterone and psychotropic drugs even in cisgender men. 

 

The weakness and episodic paralysis 
Has gotten a lot worse after my seizure last weekend,

 

- I am so far not feeling nauseous today so that’s a positive sign but still very weak. 
I’m concerned about it - only spoken to one person who is having similar symptoms in withdrawal, while muscle weakness seems to be common total periodic loss of function seems to be less common. From my research it seems to be caused by cells inability to process potassium.

 

My hope of healing and acceptance of chronicity still remains.

[dirtvoid]

Been 1 week since the seizure episode 

 

Still very frail and severely fatigued and weak, feeling better in some ways not throwing up, able to eat - but the weakness in my arms and legs is persisting along with tachycardia,

Still muscle paralysis after food intake. 

 

I’m going to order a heart rate monitor watch for variation. 

 

I went to the doctor yesterday and she was was open to the possibility of it being caused by withdrawals, she sent an urgent referral to neurology.

It’s good to possibly rule stuff out either way this is the route I need to go to get support like occupational/psychical therapy in place. going to continue to hold to see if the symptoms pass on their own. 

 

Scared by this deterioration.

 

mood: okay, not overly anxious or depressed 

 

cognitively impaired low capacity for thought, forgetting how simple things work, mild confusion on and off (forgetting where I am)

[dirtvoid]

I have bought a watch that tracks my HR, stress levels, sleep, and calculates my ‘body battery’ it is interesting and helps me track symptoms and patterns. 

taking meds consistently at 8am

I wake in adrenal terror, very high stress levels, and I start my day with 42% even with 7/8 hours sleep and 4 hours deep sleep. I haven’t tracked any REM sleep yet.  by the time I’ve had breakfast, shower, brushed teeth, it’s down to 30% 

 

I’ve learnt my heart rate skyrockets to 140BPM standing, about 1 hour after my meds. My heart rate is very high when my eating. 

food wise I can just about stomach: oats, bananas, fish, eggs, avocado, spinach, protein powder w/ oat milk, protein bars, and protein soup - I’m trying to get my strength up 

 

drinking 2L of electrolytes daily.

 

GI problems are still bad but there is an noticeable improvement 

symtpms are worse in the mornings W/ nausea, dry wretch, multiple painful loose stools, gas, belching fluctulance, bloating, tender swollen belly, and usually calms down by 3/4pm 

fatigue severe. 

muscles still weak, spasming, clicking, aching, 

 

pain levels very high - 

 

I get in sensory overload even quicker than usual - particularly with lights and sounds. 
 

mood: okay - able to have moments of total awe and wonderment at being alive. Feeling very in tune with my surroundings and connected to others.  

 

in feel better in late afternoon/ evenings but very fatigued and not really able to do tasks other than draw and sometimes read and write.

 

I really want to hold and start tapering my stimulant I can’t stand the effects on my heart and the exhaustion. I feel it’s making the Cymbalta withdrawal far more debilitating. if anyone has any ideas, I don’t think I can physically tolerate staying on the stimulant for another 16+ months until I’ve finished the Cymbalta detox. 

[manymoretodays]

Oh dirtvoid,

Yes, as you'll recall the 2 interact as well.

You're not drinking are you?  Not to make you feel minimized, or like a child.......but take a look:  Drug Interaction Report-Drugs.com

Can you at least space them apart by 2 hours, your dosing of the lisdexamfetamine, and Cymbalta?

 

Moving one by just an hour at a time, until it's 2 hours from the other.  And then give that a good week, with your continued observations.  And yes, then a HOLD may be good.  Then at that point, re-evaluate.

 

The tips for tapering:

  

On 11/14/2020 at 3:56 PM, ChessieCat said:

And the:  tips-for-tapering-off-vyvanse-lisdexamfetamine-dimesylate

 

And again, this kind of combination, with the testosterone, gets a bit beyond our scope.  I'm sure hoping and in your cheering section, that the present symptoms begin to resolve, even if just a little bit.  That would be good progress......heading in the right direction.

And also so hoping you've got some ground support too, outside of the professionals, or you never know, some good professionals out there too........ to hold you up when needed, carry you when you can't stand.......and just hold your hand sometimes.  Holding your hand.  And honest, I began holding my own hand.......sometimes tightly, sometimes just giving it a squeeze, when I lost one of my main supports a few years back now. 

 

Best, L, P, H, and G, ❤️

mmt

 

* dirtvoid, it wouldn't hurt to get your electrolytes checked too.  Since you are seeing the doctor.  2 liters of electrolytes, could possibly be throwing something off that then effects your heart, and energy levels.  Worth checking.  I've overdone it with Pedialyte before.......and just had minor symptoms, but you may not be needing electrolyte replacement.....worth checking.  Good clean, fresh water is excellent.

Edited January 27, 2021 by manymoretodays

[dirtvoid]

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Oh dirtvoid,

Yes, as you'll recall the 2 interact as well.

You're not drinking are you?  Not to make you feel minimized, or like a child.......but take a look:  Drug Interaction Report-Drugs.com

Can you at least space them apart by 2 hours, your dosing of the lisdexamfetamine, and Cymbalta?

 

Moving one by just an hour at a time, until it's 2 hours from the other.  And then give that a good week, with your continued observations.  And yes, then a HOLD may be good.  Then at that point, re-evaluate.

 

The tips for tapering:

  

 

And again, this kind of combination, with the testosterone, gets a bit beyond our scope.  I'm sure hoping and in your cheering section, that the present symptoms begin to resolve, even if just a little bit.  That would be good progress......heading in the right direction.

And also so hoping you've got some ground support too, outside of the professionals, or you never know, some good professionals out there too........ to hold you up when needed, carry you when you can't stand.......and just hold your hand sometimes.  Holding your hand.  And honest, I began holding my own hand.......sometimes tightly, sometimes just giving it a squeeze, when I lost one of my main supports a few years back now. 

 

Best, L, P, H, and G, ❤️

mmt

 

* dirtvoid, it wouldn't hurt to get your electrolytes checked too.  Since you are seeing the doctor.  2 liters of electrolytes, could possibly be throwing something off that then effects your heart, and energy levels.  Worth checking.  I've overdone it with Pedialyte before.......and just had minor symptoms, but you may not be needing electrolyte replacement.....worth checking.  Good clean, fresh water is excellent.

I’m not drinking I’ve been sober since June 2018 - but how I feel in the morning certainly feels like alcoholism. 

 

I am aware of the interaction - but I always thought serotonin syndrome was an acute problem nonetheless being on 2 drugs (or even 3 with my hormones) with a 12 hour half life that mess wit noradrenaline can’t be doing me any favours.

 

will try spacing out the pills and see how that goes. 
 

I’ll give the electrolytes a rest today - I thought it’s been helping due to the vomiting and diarrhoea and depleted minerals. 
 

I have good non-medical support - finding a lot of purpose and meaning by enriching my religious/spiritual life - started Hebrew school and also attend an online congregation 4 times a week I do service in NA supporting people in early recovery. 
I have a solid connection with G-d, prayer and meditation help A lot with retaining hope.

My roommates are supportive as well.

 

While it’s just an app and not a real person I find the EFT app immensely helpful in lowering my stress-response to my symptoms. I have absolutely no control over how my body reacts to withdrawal, but I have far more control then I give myself credit for in how I react to my symptoms. I’m taking a lot more personal responsibility for my healing than when I was getting off benzos where I essentially just gave up on life.

I practice radical amazement and gratitude and that helps. 

[dirtvoid]

 Not drinking Electrolyte experiment went bad. Had another paralysis episode - going to drink electrolytes again. 

[dirtvoid]

Wow! Separating the Cymbalta and Lisdexamfetamine has made a huge difference 

It's cleared up the adrenal surge terror and I just feel far less intense and foggy, and confused - 

THANK YOU! 

[manymoretodays]

 

21 hours ago, dirtvoid said:

Not drinking Electrolyte experiment went bad. Had another paralysis episode - going to drink electrolytes again. 

 

3 hours ago, dirtvoid said:

Wow! Separating the Cymbalta and Lisdexamfetamine has made a huge difference 

 

Hi dirtvoid,

Oh now.  I only wanted to suggest that you get your electrolytes checked.  Was that done with your last panel of blood work?  And when?

What do you mean by a paralysis episode?

 

And then, it must only be one day, since you moved one of your meds an hour away from the other.  But.......this is good.  I know you have had trouble with keeping things consistent, with your dosing, and so this hopefully won't present a problem going forward.

 

And that's great news, on the second quote.  See how this pans out, over some time.

Is the testosterone done with shots?  And how often?  And then how does that play out with your symptoms?

 

Oh, I like the EFT too, or tapping.  What I really like is that it can be done anywhere, at anytime........well except while driving.  I just usually run through the points, with some phrases, and by the second time through.......I'm greatly relaxed.  So......glad that is working for you as well.

EFT(Emotional Freedom Techniques)

 

Okay, thanks.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by manymoretodays

[dirtvoid]

Yeah, it was done with my last blood-work and nothing unusual showed up. 
 

by paralysis episode I mean - I get this fits or episodes where my heart starts beating irregularly, I am overcome with intense weakness and fatigue and I lose total function in my legs and arms for usually about 20-30 minutes and then I come out of it with a lingering dense fatigue. They seem to settle down with consumption of minerals so I’ve added magnesium.

 

moving the meds is still making a difference - but once I take the lisdexamfetamine I start having stomache problems and the psychotropic effects come on more suddenly less of a feeling of cortisol spike / adrenaline surge 

 

I’m doing my best to keep my Cymbalta regular at 8am

 

I’ve downloaded an app that wakes me up at the lightest sleep phase and it seems to help a little. 

I take testosterone Intramuscular once a week on Saturdays - there is no exact correlation with my symptoms over then on Fridays when my T levels are lowest sometimes have a fatigue / mood crash and I usually have an energy surge on Saturday and Sunday I know T makes me at risk for osteoporosis - I’ve had raised calcium in the past, along with genetic risks. I also know T along with the Cymbalta is depleting minerals so it could be a factor in my muscle problems. The side effect list also mention GI issues, so it could be related but very difficult to pinpoint as a direct cause- I also have PCOS so my T and E levels tend to fluctuate a lot. I’m getting my leaves checked again soon.

 

 

 

[dirtvoid]

I cut to 15 beads - I had them already measured out and it’s been a month. 

much of what I experiencing was very in line to my Complex Reigional Pain Syndrome diagnosis - so I’m assuming it was flare and heightened by my prolonged withdrawals. Magnesium powder helps has helped I’ve been taking a spoonful of that for 10 days.

 

I was okay the first day of the cut 

the 2nd night had a needed by potentially very risky ‘hypomanic’ episode where I went just post a letter at the postbox and ended up just feeling very intense walking for hours and hours - screaming, howling in the streets. It was raining and late at night and wasn’t stopped. But despite my lack of behavioural control it released a lot of pent up tension.

 

day 3 - not the best - not the worst - my sleep isn’t great, I’m exhausted, my heart rate is high, my muscles were aching and weak, a lot of executive dysfunction which isn’t withdrawal related but withdrawal really doesn’t help. Fatigued, Scattered, overwhelmed, agitated want to tear off my skin, crawling, burning, tingling hot/cold.

a painrelief hyponosis worked wonders. 

Day 4 - stomach is bad, nausea, vertigo, very much hanging out in bed most of the day, sad but feel okay about being sad. Wrote the day off to ease guilt and stress. 

 

Next month I’m going to and get it together to split doses, the intra-dose withdrawals is causing problems. I also I am still considering in the upcoming months of putting the duloxatine withdrawal on halt to taper the Lisdexamfetamine a CNS is a horrific thing to be taking while my CNS is going haywire. I feel like the tapering effects will be far more predictable (but probably more dysphoric) than the SSNRI. I tend to make educated decisions on a whim so we shall see. 

[dirtvoid]

Having less W/D symptoms since my cut - although it could be the fact I've separated my meds by 2 hours - I take the Cymbalta at 8am everyday and the Lisdexamfetamine at 10am. 

My sleep is not great but using the sleep tracking gives me a better idea of what is actually happening I'm getting 4-6 hours a night and sometimes and extra two in the morning after I take my 8am Cymbalta. I am waking up frequently in the night - with temp dysregulation and burning skin and tactile sensitivity. 

I am fatigued but I know it's my baseline anyway. It really is a struggle some days knowing what is just Dyspraxia and what is withdrawal.

Things are feeling 'more real' in the sense less mental clouding and emotional blunting. 

I had a panic attack the other night, and as my anxious thoughts were racing and looping and I was laying on my floor, I said to myself - I don't think this is absolute, I think I'm having a panic attack, and then I started laughing because I took the power out the terror and grounded myself. 

 

I have way more thoughts, good and bad and It's a relief. 

 

Haven't been puking for a few weeks but still having frequent loose stools - I'm going to chase the doctor up because they still haven't got back to me about my GI appointment since they found raised prolectin in my stools. 

I'm exhausted and burnt out, but on the whole feeling positive and feel like I'm really taking responsibility for my healing. 

I'm finding hypnosis to be a really vital tool in my healing. 

[dirtvoid]

I can't see myself coping with more 16+ months before being able to reduce the Lisadexamfetamine - a CNS on very destabilised nervous system is a disaster. I was fine this morning until I took it at 10am and then my GI symptoms got really intense and blood sugar went haywire as well as adrenal surges, muscle spasms, spiked heart rate and energy crashes and I was all over the place for a few hours. I'm becoming more and more concerned about my heart - my heart rate watch monitor notes that even just sitting my heart rate spikes to up 147 BPM - which seems worrying to me as this is happening everyday, even if it it 'just stress and anxiety' there are also times where my heart feels irregular but I am unsure if this is just an emotional feeling or reality. 

I seem to be stabilising and smoothing out on the Duloxetine at least in terms of mood, cognitive process - there are too many variables to try and figure out what is going on in my vicereal organs, but my mood and emotional experience is easier to pinpoint. At this point since I begun my taper have cut 92% of my starting dose!!!!! - which is an a very affirming number, considering I am happy in this moment to be alive. 

I hired a disability coach to help with problems associated with neurodivergence and it is also reassuring and helping me figure my baseline and also remember what I was like before medication. 

 

Given the complications and lack of research and even anecdotal data around slowly tapering psychostimulants or at least on the prevalence of protracted withdrawals. I have decided that I'm going to give micro-tapering a shot at 2.5% a week - and just see what happens in terms of aggression, fatigue or depression - the good thing is that stimulant withdrawal is I know what to expect since I've quit cold multiple times - which I know puts me at huge risk for kindling, but I feel my concerns about my heart are a pretty good to reason to do this risky experiment with this delicate neurological biochemistry. 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

When I was taking 100mg Pristiq my blood pressure went up a lot (tested with halti monitor for 24 hours) and there were times when I felt like my heart "flipped".  Some people might describe this as missing a beat.  Whatever it was it was noticeable and didn't feel right.  I had no issues with these things at 50mg.

 

When I found SA I realised that I was most likely experiencing mild serotonin syndrome due to the high dose of Pristiq.  I was not taking any other serotonin drugs at the time.

 

Once my dose got lower my blood pressure went down and the "flipping" disappeared.

 

You are taking a high dose of lisdexamfetamine at 70mg which is the maximum dose.  See:  https://www.drugs.com/ppa/lisdexamfetamine.html

 

 

 

 

[dirtvoid]

7 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

When I was taking 100mg Pristiq my blood pressure went up a lot (tested with halti monitor for 24 hours) and there were times when I felt like my heart "flipped".  Some people might describe this as missing a beat.  Whatever it was it was noticeable and didn't feel right.  I had no issues with these things at 50mg.

 

When I found SA I realised that I was most likely experiencing mild serotonin syndrome due to the high dose of Pristiq.  I was not taking any other serotonin drugs at the time.

 

Once my dose got lower my blood pressure went down and the "flipping" disappeared.

 

You are taking a high dose of lisdexamfetamine at 70mg which is the maximum dose.  See:  https://www.drugs.com/ppa/lisdexamfetamine.html

 

 

 

 

i feel like what I’m experiencing is a bit like a chronic serotonin syndrome.

 

it says that Vit C reduces the amphetamine absorption levels in the blood . Might be worth a shot to take it with a glass of OJ and see if the effects weaken. 

[dirtvoid]

Another sudden paralysis episode w/ hypnagogic hallucinations or as I call them Dybbuk attacks.

 

I’m going to post everytime these happen to try and figure out particular pattern

 

important to note/“: I had 5 hours sleep and a very busy day - with lots of positive emotions - it’s a pattern that I get exhausted from feelings of  joy. Zoom fatigue is also real regardless of W/D, Hebrew class is also taxing. 
 

7AM wake up: have a moment gratitude because I had a drinking dream and I’m so glad it wasn’t real - do my prayers - muscle stiff and weak can’t access motor control

 

Snooze alarms 

 

8AM: take Duloxatine (15 beads, 2.4mg) eat nutritional bar, back to sleep more and more exhaustion, have electrolytes.

 

9am: some energy have shower, extreme fatigue lay down 

 

10am: take Lisdexamfetamine - exhaustion - panic because of overwhelm of doing tasks - have sensory overload particularly from light - lay with blindfold earplugs under weighted blanket. Muscles v. Weak - breathing excerises 

11am - out of body - hypnagogic  experience - start being dragged ‘down’ by black mass, try to scream - black mass muffles me. Moan comes out - I scream until there’s a sound - muscles are inactive. I slowly regain body awareness but muscles are weak and lack control. 

interestingly enough my health watch bugged out during the experience and didn’t catch any data of my heart rate or stress or sleep during this experience.

 

11:11 back in my body more energised but naturally frightened.

 

11:46 - Lisdexamfetamine is beginning to increase saliency.
 

the variables that throw a spanner into the works are so slight and feel so infinite - finding consistency is really difficult. I can make it through today whatever happens. I can dream of a future where I am not at the total mercy and unforgiving nervous system disorganisation that comes from the fallout of psychiatric drugs. What I lack in patience I make up for in My sheer determination. 

 

[dirtvoid]

7pm:

 

Had a another Adrenal Surge which led to a meltdown - I went to get food after being stuck in dorsal nerve mode where for hours I just couldn’t make decisions. I freaked out in the first supermarket. I had needle sensations all over my body in the second and just had to leave after a about a minute. Then was having very intense intrusive thoughts, and the compulsion to run and scream I did the former not the latter. Then I went to my NA homegroup and just instantly felt okay and nothing like before. I have no idea if this withdrawal or just me and my intense mental states. I feel okay now. I have a instinctive feeling that experimenting with reducing the Lisdexamfetamine is my best option. My nervous system simply can’t tolerate the havoc it’s causing.  

 

Just a thought

 

Can having an ‘immature/underdeveloped’ nervous system make somebody less tolerant of drugs and more prone to withdrawal?

 

I was reading my old medical records which say that I have an Atonic  Symmetrical Neck Reflex - which ‘suggests’ I have an immature nervous system - is this something to ponder on or more biomedical model nonsense. (This is part of my neuromuscular report that led to my diagnosis of Dyspraxia /   developmental co-ordination disorder and Sensory Intergration Dysfunction) 

 

 

[dirtvoid]

10:33pm - sharp chest pains 

[dirtvoid]

4:02am - just got back from emergency after chest pains and weakness - ECG and Chest Xray came back normal - Bloods indicate dehydration - I am having eye problems (blurry vision) and I have a tremor and cognitive difficulties - Doctor suggests calling GP to talk about Muscloskeletal issues. 

I mentioned I thought it was caused by medication but was dismissed. 

[dirtvoid]

I had a 'withdrawal good' night sleep last night and have relatively few symptoms so far today. 

 

Factors that helped: stretching Feeling supported and cared for via my community network, good night sleep, taking it slow when I felt overwhelmed, eating regularly, going for a walk, faith, prayer, connection to G-d, feeling excited and inspired, talking to roommate, it's a cold but sunny day, able to calm down quickly when felt panicky at the pharmacy, 

[manymoretodays]

Hi dirvoid,

On 2/11/2021 at 7:52 AM, dirtvoid said:

I had a 'withdrawal good' night sleep last night and have relatively few symptoms so far today. 

 

Factors that helped: stretching Feeling supported and cared for via my community network, good night sleep, taking it slow when I felt overwhelmed, eating regularly, going for a walk, faith, prayer, connection to G-d, feeling excited and inspired, talking to roommate, it's a cold but sunny day, able to calm down quickly when felt panicky at the pharmacy, 

Happy on this report ^

 

On 2/9/2021 at 9:20 PM, dirtvoid said:

4:02am - just got back from emergency after chest pains and weakness - ECG and Chest Xray came back normal - Bloods indicate dehydration - I am having eye problems (blurry vision) and I have a tremor and cognitive difficulties - Doctor suggests calling GP to talk about Muscloskeletal issues. 

I mentioned I thought it was caused by medication but was dismissed. 

Obviously, not so good ^

Did they give you some fluids IV, or just dismiss you, as well as medication effects?

I'm glad the ECG and Chest Xray were normal.

 

We do have lot's of members with Chest pain, and it is a common symptom:

The checklist is here (PDF will download) glenmullen_symptoms_AS Appendix 1.pdf

[manymoretodays]

(continued from above)

#11 in Dr. Glenmullen's list, it's under the "anxiety" heading

 

However, I'm always glad when members get checked out, and get the "normal" results back.

 

dirtvoid, have you ever looked into any of the bio-feedback therapies?  Just wondering, and we do have a topic:  Neurofeedback

I just remembered wanting to pursue something like that, at one point.  And wonder if it would be helpful.  I believe there is no electricity administered, making it a non-drug, non-electrical thing that might help to cope, and reverse some of the symptoms of WD?  I don't know.  Just a thought.

 

And best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[dirtvoid]

So my update is I have pharmacy supply issues with the Lisdexamfetamine and due to I’ve been forced CT - in some ways I feel loads better but it is not without struggle first few days I slept as much as a cat, it’s sleepiness and some exhaustion but difference from the fatigue/weakness. I’ve had moments of elation and short but intense bursts of depression/agitation (typical of a stimulant crash) low energy and some typical ‘ADHD’ rebound of hyperactivity, impulsivity (nothing serious or dangerous just making regrettable and careless decisions) and distractibility I last took a dose Thursday. There’s been no aggression or anything of major concern. 

 

not really sure what to do, I feel lots  better off it and the symptoms I do have are much more manageable than the ones I have due to the interaction between the two. but wasn’t keen on doing such an abrupt withdrawal. I’m going to hold off and if the symptoms become severe I may reconsider from what I know Stimulants do not have the same protracted withdrawals, and it hasn’t seem to have impacted my stabilisation on Duloxatine. 
 

I guess time will tell.

 

[ChessieCat]

If you do manage to get some and decide to reinstate please only start with a low dose.  It is better to take a small amount and increase gradually than to risk taking too much.  And the side effects/interaction are generally less if you take a smaller dose.

 

See Post #1 of this topic:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by ChessieCat

[dirtvoid]

Thank you! 

 

I'm still feeling lots better off it there has been more improvements, I can't quite articulate exactly what but my mental state is drastically better, far less anxious and agitated, less terror - I feel more harmonious and aligned - It's cleared up a lot of Akathasia-type symptoms - the only struggle since coming off is the excessive sleepiness - which isn't actually so bad as I feel like I need the rest. If things get really dire, I will reinstate 10mg. (1/7th of the dose) but I'm only 5 days off and I feel like I'll except to see more improvements, going to hold off the Duloxetine taper a while - I feel that could really throw a spanner into this delicate but bizarre chemical untangling. My poor Nervous System. 

Last night I shared with my spiritual counsellor about the experience and felt really trusted, heard and seen which helps a lot as well. 

[dirtvoid]

Day 6 of CT of Lisdexamfetamine - 

 

7am - Awake - feeling pretty good - energised on average sleep (5 hours) - struggled to fall asleep due to racing thoughts 

No morning symptoms - do a nice morning routine of shower, teeth brushing, EFT, tidying, breakfast, contacting home group members etc. 

8am - Take 2.42mg 

9:30am - try to start some coursework - get little but some done struggle to focus 

11:am - eyes start getting weak - along with usual warning signs of episode (heaviness/fatigue)

12pm wake up, confused, tempory loss of muscle function followed by heavy fatigue 

1pm - Eat leftover beans and make scrambled eggs 

 

Doing okay - fatigue is expected at this point.

[dirtvoid]

Lack of focus, irritability, hypersensitive, lack of interest, 

[dirtvoid]

Good evening - after NA, and talking to a friend on the phone - feeling more level and trusting that I'm okay and I'm going to be okay. 

[dirtvoid]

7 days off Lisdexamfetamine 

Great day! Minimal symptoms! Feel stabilised - increased energy levels, able to eat, no stomach pains, sleep is better, brain fog is gone, minimal muscle pain, no weakness, minor fatigue (by my own energy norms) positive mood, hopeful, joyous, calm, some hyperactivity and restlessness, distractibility, no impulsivity. No weird heartbeats. No desire to go back on it. Just huge relief, hoping this is as good as it seems and I won’t be hit suddenly with a wave of depression but I have a very strong support network right now. 

 

Only thing new I’ve noticed is haven’t smoked in 2 years and I’m craving cigarettes but I’ve held off so far.  
 

I expect some more fatigue, up and down moods - I think the fact I have a strong foundation in NA is helping a lot.  
 

quitting Lisdexamfetamine seems to led to drastic improvements. 
 

I plan on cutting my Duloxetine by 1 bead in 3 weeks time, dependent on symptom level.

[dirtvoid]

Good day - 

able to read, book two appointments, go for a jog, attend prayer group, go to the supermarket, prepare an elaborate healthy meal, wash up. Hang out with roommates be sociable and going to attend a birthday party on zoom.

 

From my own baseline few noticeable withdrawals symptoms other than some sleepiness and hyperactivity 

 

Seem to also be in a window with Cymbalta withdrawals.

 

forced lisdexamfetamine cold turkey was the best thing that’s happened to me. 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, dirtvoid said:

forced lisdexamfetamine cold turkey was the best thing that’s happened to me. 

 

It's good to hear that things are going okay.  Please note that I am not saying the following to discourage you but just to let you know about it.  It will be something to consider if your symptoms worsen over the next few months.  There is the possibility of delayed withdrawal symptoms, also known as post cold turkey honeymoon period.  I've had it happen to me and other members have had the same thing happen.

 

For me, I cold turkeyed citalopram and felt great, the best I had in a very long time, for about 2 months after stopping.  Then I was bedridden for 2.5 weeks with symptoms which seemed like the flu but I knew it was not.  I couldn't eat and lost 8kgs in that 2.5 weeks.  My counsellor told me "you will always need an AD like a diabetic needs insulin" so I started on Pristiq.

 

However, after experiencing withdrawal symptoms when reducing my Pristiq by 50% (immediate onset) and then researching and finding SA, I am certain that what I experienced was delayed withdrawal symptoms. 

[dirtvoid]

22 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

It's good to hear that things are going okay.  Please note that I am not saying the following to discourage you but just to let you know about it.  It will be something to consider if your symptoms worsen over the next few months.  There is the possibility of delayed withdrawal symptoms, also known as post cold turkey honeymoon period.  I've had it happen to me and other members have had the same thing happen.

 

For me, I cold turkeyed citalopram and felt great, the best I had in a very long time, for about 2 months after stopping.  Then I was bedridden for 2.5 weeks with symptoms which seemed like the flu but I knew it was not.  I couldn't eat and lost 8kgs in that 2.5 weeks.  My counsellor told me "you will always need an AD like a diabetic needs insulin" so I started on Pristiq.

 

However, after experiencing withdrawal symptoms when reducing my Pristiq by 50% (immediate onset) and then researching and finding SA, I am certain that what I experienced was delayed withdrawal symptoms. 

 

I hear you - but also remember that Stimulants are very different drugs to ADs - the W/D effects are way more predictable and psychological - I also have a lot more hope and models of recovery - I know many people who abused stimulants for years and years and have recovered. I also do think having strong recovery NA is a godsend right now. 

The struggle I've had initially has usually been suicidality and aggressive impulsives (punching myself in the punch or smashing things) so to have my first week only dealing with sleepiness and minor irritability meanwhile just not being on the drug causing such a large amount of symptom relief - feels REALLY good right now, so I do feel like it's best thing that's happened. I'm not going to feel this good forever but that's always just life. 

I expect some ups and downs and fatigue to linger - but also at the 1 month mark I plan on starting my Cymbalta reduction - so will kinda difficult to know. 

It's just really nice to have a Window y'know  

 

but once I start tapering the Cymbalta it will be difficult to know exactly what's what - and likely at only 2 and half years off Benzos - I still go through waves and windows with that. 

Whatever lies ahead - I have faith and trust I can handle. 

 

[Guest]

I also got bad sleep paralysis during withdrawal for yearrrrs

[dirtvoid]

All over good day - high energy but also calm and not frantic or nervous or unhinged. Just actually having energy to be active. am struggling a bit with focus, sitting still, and needing a lot of stimulation - most of this is to be expected and is just rebound inattention/hyperactivity which should level out to my baseline over time nothing of too much concern. Increased appetite is a withdrawal effect that is very much welcome to me. 

 

some Brain Zaps today unsure if it’s SSNRI or Stimulant related.

My vision has also hugely deteriorated since my last eye test and I’m waiting on my new prescription lens this week and I’m hoping this will help some of my issues 

 

I feel clear-headed and energetic not mentally fatigued or brain foggy which is such an amazing improvement! And I can actually do the things that help my recovery.

 

I know I may be ‘speaking too soon’ but discontinuing the stimulant has lead to improvement. 
 

the plan is to continuing holding until I’m really prepared for my next

1 bead drop (15 down to 14 beads) 

 

 

 

[dirtvoid]

all good until about 4pm and hit with exhaustion and restlessness. Some racing thought loops today existential anguish about belonging. along with splitting headache. Felt really cold Headache got bad in the side of my head. took 400mg of Ibuprofen.

headache went away. Then had histamine reaction - burning itchy bumpy skin - I feel really hot.

 

the headache is the only thing that I think is Lisdexamfetamine withdrawal.

 

not sure about histamine I’ve had it throughout coming off SSNRI, maybe a reaction to the ibuprofen  
 

exhaustion / restlessness / temperature changes are normal and baseline for my sensory processing difficulties. Yes there are exacerbated by my withdrawal syndrome nervous system but if I blame everything on withdrawal I’m going to be disappointed 

 

still feeling joyous.