Myles: 3 months into cold turkey, is reinstatement advised?

[Myles]

Hi I'm 3 months from cold turkey lexapro 10mg, I have read many people going on years with withdrawl from cold turkey, would it be advised to reinstate liquid lexapro at 1mg? Or ride this out.

I think I'm getting windows already, but symptoms are still debilitating, I was hit withdrawls basically day one of stopping or my body just refused the drug.

 

I ended up in hospital from mistakenly taking 20 mg over 2 days instead of 10mg heart went into SVT major panic attack, violent diarheah and intense shaking fever etc persisted for a full week 10 minutes or so after taking my normal 10mg until I cold turkey stopped.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Myles.

 

Let me lay out some of the basics of reinstatement so you can make your decision.  

 

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.  The purpose isn't to eliminate  symptoms (though it does for some) but rather to make them tolerable.  RI works most predictably within 3 months of last dose, so you're right at the edge of the window.  That isn't to say RI can't work further out, but the sooner after last dose the better your chances are.  The alternative, as you say, is to ride it out.  Some recover fairly quickly, other take a good bit longer.  It's impossible to predict how long it might take.

 

The next thing to consider is how bad your symptoms are.  You describe them as debilitating, which does sound bad, but the fact that you're getting windows is a sign that you're healing.  

 

Another factor is the symptoms you experienced after taking 20mg twice.  You said that you had a bad reaction to your regular dose after this event.  So you may have developed a sensitivity to the drug, and your system may no longer tolerate it.  This would be in the nature of an adverse reaction, meaning the drug might now be poison to your system.

 

Plese read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you do reinstate, I suggest 0.5mg rather than 1mg.  If you have a bad reaction, the lower the dose the better.  It takes 4 days for the reinstated dose to reach full strength indoor blood stream and a few days longer to register in the brain.  If you feel worse, stop immediately.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

[Myles]

Thank you Gridley, really appreciate the response. 

 

I feel the past week has been a steady upwards window, night sweats, anxiety, the muscle tremors, throat tongue spasms and histamine and headaches are still strong and thinking is extremely slow and I'm physically weak but I am coping. 

 

I feel the akathsia feeling of wanting to rip my skin off and internally exploding with nervous energy etc has almost completely gone.

 

Able to get out and walk and I'm eating not much of an appetite still but I am eating and drinking. 

I have been taking fish oil and magnesium not sure if they have been helping or not.

 

I am very afraid to reinstate and cause an adverse reaction and prolong withdrawls even longer then they may take currently from cold turkey.

 

I know in the end it's my decision wether to reinstate or not just hoping for some insight from others who have been through this on what they did or wish they hadn't done. 

And of course everyone's different.

 

I'm 50:50 on what I should do 😥

Hold or reinstate.

[Gridley]

7 hours ago, Myles said:

 

I feel the past week has been a steady upwards window

That's a very good sign of healing.

[Myles]

Gridley could you tag other mods or admins to weigh in on their opinion on reinstatement or not?

 

The things that don't seem to be going away are my eye balls/vision tremble, I actually managed to make them shake violently today which scared me, Also bad floaters, like black cobwebs that float by. Visions been checked and is fine apparently.

 

Constant Mild body/face tremors and random noticeable twitches.

Plus the headache and neck pain I've had everyday for 4 weeks.

Burning in my right foot aswell has remained.

Dizzy and unsteady most of the time.

Having hives and itchyness randomly pop up aswell.

 

The violent tremors and paratheisa and intense body aches and pains and vertigo I had in the first month since ct has gone for the most part, and I am getting sleep again.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

I've let the other mods know.

[Myles]

Thank you ChessieCat appreciate it, just feeling a bit lost you know 

[ChessieCat]

Please use dates instead of timeframes in your drug signature  I'vde bolded what would be better either changed or added.  Thank you.

 

Lexapro 20mg 1.5 years, dropped to 10mg 6 months. Took 20mg over two days by accident ended up in hospital with SVT, CT dose 22/9/20 by doctor.

 

mirtazapine dose & start date 2.5 weeks ct 25/11/20

Seroquel dose & start date 7 days CT end date.
Valium dose & start date 4 days end date

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

Please be aware that Lexapro is a strong drug.  See the quote below. 

 

I'm giving you some things to consider, but I suggest that you wait until the mods have discussed your situation before you reinstate.

 

If you do decide to reinstate it be better to start with a very small dose especially due to your previous reaction/s, possibly only 0.25mg or maybe even less to start.  It is better to start with a low dose and increase by a tiny bit more than to risk taking too much.  It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  You would need to keep note of your symptoms to see how you react. 

 

Please carefully read Post #1 of the Reinstatement topic linked by Gridley above.

 

From Post #1 of this topic:  Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

  

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Special considerations

A significant characteristic of Lexapro is that milligram for milligram, it is much stronger than other SSRIs.

 

...

If you are taking 5mg of Lexapro, it's not tiny, it's equivalent to 10-20mg Paxil or Celexa.

 

 

[Myles]

Thanks Chessie ill edit the history, will be rough dates, my memory is horrendous and the past 3 months have been a blur.

I managed to get a script for liquid Escitalopram through my doctor just in case of reinstatement, which is what I was actually on in tablet form not lexaoro so ill edit that. 

[ChessieCat]

3 months into horrendous withdrawls, lost 10kg in first 2 weeks, 75Kg to now 62kg im 5"10

Whole body Internal/external Tremors, tics, twitches, palpatations, histamine issues, dissociation, tinnitus, chest pain, intense headaches, brain zaps, akathsia? Extreme inner restlessness, muscle and joint pains, nerve pain, paratheisa, chills, fevers, intense abdominal pain, insomnia, memory and cognitive function very low, fatigued, vertigo, dizzyness, hypervigilant.

Some have subsided, mainly the muscle tics and slight tremors, histamine, high anxiety morning and night panic, minor dissociation at times, dizzyness and fatigue, palpatations remain.

 

Please delete the above from your signature.  We don't need the above but it is good information to have in your thread if it isn't already here.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Myles]

OK done and done, ill post the withdrawal symptom's experienced here,  

3 months into horrendous withdrawals, lost 10kg in first 2 weeks, 75Kg to now 62kg I'm 5"10

Whole body Internal/external Tremors, tics, twitches, Vision issues, visual snow like features, eye floaters, eye shaking trembling affecting vision and reading ability, palpitations, histamine issues, dissociation, tinnitus, chest pain, intense headaches and neck pain, pain in temporal arteries, brain zaps, Diarrhea.

Extreme inner restlessness, muscle and joint pains, nerve pain, paresthesia, burning in feet, chills, fevers, intense abdominal pain and cramps, insomnia, memory and cognitive function very low, fatigued, vertigo, dizziness, hypervigilant, Dissociation. 

[Myles]

😥😥😥 anyone?

[manymoretodays]

Hi Myles and welcome,

So I see that the last of the Lexapro was September 22nd?

And then some Seroquel.  What happened with the Seroquel?  Did you just take a dose or 2?

And then onto Doxycycline?  What was this taken for?

 

I had to look up the Pizotifen(Sandomigran) :  https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB06153

Pizotifen belongs to the class of antamines and is related to Cyproheptadine ¹. It is a potent serotonin and tryptamine antagonist that has been used for migraine prevention for many years. It exhibits weak anticholinergic, antihistamine, and antikinin actions in addition to sedative and appetite-stimulating properties ¹⁰. Some patients receiving pizotifen treatment developed tolerance with the prolonged use of the drug ¹⁰. Numerous studies have revealed the potential antidepressant effects of pizotifen, which are independent of its antimigraine action ⁵. While it is suggested that pizotifen may act similarly to the classic tricyclic antidepressants ⁵, its full mechanism of antidepressant action is not fully elucidated. Pizotifen hydrochloride is an active ingredient in Sandomigran, which is used for the prophylactic management of migraines. Sandomigran is available in a number of countries but is not approved by the FDA nor EMA.

 

And then this little nugget popped up too:

While it is suggested that pizotifen may act similarly to the classic tricyclic antidepressants ⁵, its full mechanism of antidepressant action is not fully elucidated. Pizotifen hydrochloride is an active ingredient in Sandomigran, which is used for the prophylactic management of migraines.Jan 21, 2008

https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/sandomigran-tablets

 

And then it looks like you had a pretty immediate adverse reaction to that.

 

What happened with the Mirtazapine, and then Valium?

 

Oh my gosh Myles, it's been one medication, after another, or so it appears since the Lexapro got CTed.

And I'm confused as to when your symptoms began?  Was that immediately after the CT off Lexapro, back in late September?  Was the Lexapro started for migraines, or was it related to WD from the codeine?

On 12/11/2020 at 3:39 AM, Myles said:

3 months into horrendous withdrawals, lost 10kg in first 2 weeks, 75Kg to now 62kg I'm 5"10

Whole body Internal/external Tremors, tics, twitches, Vision issues, visual snow like features, eye floaters, eye shaking trembling affecting vision and reading ability, palpitations, histamine issues, dissociation, tinnitus, chest pain, intense headaches and neck pain, pain in temporal arteries, brain zaps, Diarrhea.

Extreme inner restlessness, muscle and joint pains, nerve pain, paresthesia, burning in feet, chills, fevers, intense abdominal pain and cramps, insomnia, memory and cognitive function very low, fatigued, vertigo, dizziness, hypervigilant, Dissociation. 

 

And I'm so sorry, as it does sound like you are having some intense WD now.  And have had for some time.  It's so intense sometimes.  It does get better, and it will.  Hugs.

 

I take it that you have had a chance to go over the reinstatement topic now, it's linked in the first post to you from Gridley.

Another option here, too, which you can mull over is that you could reinstate Celexa/citalopram instead of Lexapro.  I do see that you have already got some liquid Lexapro, and then also concur with ChessieCat, that you, if you do try Lexapro, to just start real low.  0.25 mg was suggested.

 

Celexa/citalopram is considered the gentler cousin of Lexapro, and that might be tolerated better than the escitalopram, with a low reinstatement dose.   You could start with 0.25 mg and then carefully observe for 4-7 days for improvement, and then beyond that time as well.

Tips for tapering off Celexa(citalopram)

^ has information on the various forms of citalopram, and you'll see that it also come in a liquid formulation.

 

For that careful observation I mentioned above, we often have members do this:  Keep daily notes of drug and symptoms to track patterns and progress

Pull down the quote in the first post there, and you'll even see a sample note.  You could even try some now, with a focus on times that you feel improved during the day, and non-drug coping practices that have helped(putting those in the notes).  I mean sometimes, we panic when we get here and start reading everything, and then most of us do come in symptomatic in some way.......so to begin to focus on any improvements can help shift towards healing too.  And I will just point you towards the Symptoms and Self Care forum too.  You might start with some of the top pinned topics that apply, and then just ask here too, for help, as you have been.  Often other members support each other too, and can relate, and that so often can help.  That just knowing you are not alone.

 

Are you on any other drugs or supplements now?  Have you had any windows, even partial ones in a day, thus far?

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

I honestly don't think that, at this point in time, and after the many medications that you have been off and on, since September, that it will be a miracle cure all of WD, BUT, it might offer some relief or mitigation of symptoms and their intensity.  With time and patience.

 

I think, if I were you, I might just take the next 24 hours or so, to review everything, and then make a decision.  Check on back too, in case of further input here on your thread as well.

 

Sending healing Myles, from across the miles. 

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

[xero]

you got vision problems too? i only did one antidepressant for 19 days and went CT. Still got a couple of these symptoms. How are you feeling? I've been off mine for a little over a month 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[Myles]

Thanks so much @manymoretodays I really appreciate your time to reply and supply all that information and advice! 

This page is an absolute God send for people like me.

 

Some of my severe symtpomns started in the 4 or 5 days before i CTD when i took 20mg instead of my usual 10mg, ended up in hospitals with suspected SVT? From that and given a prescription for betta blockers there and then. Took them once and felt so sick so stopped.

 

I knew about the migraine medication having an affect on serotonin, but not until recently, and I definitely had an extreme adverse reaction to that, it was terrifying my brain just suddenly decided I wanted to die like I had no control over the thoughts or feelings. I was even scared of the knowledge I had of a pack of razor blades I had in my tool box 😱

 

I was put on lexapro for anxiety and depression. 

Even though it was mild and completely pales in the face of what I have felt in the past nearly 3 months.

 

The doxycycline was for a suspected UTI which I didn't have I was also given another antibiotic to take on top of that one, alprim I think it was 😥.

 

The seroquel I took I think 4 days or so 25mg twice a day for when I first had the reaction to seroquel and I think I was having pretty bad akathsia and agitation, couldn't keep still, head was buzzing, my vision was like static.

 

Valium took a handful of times for the extreme anxiety etc until I read how addictive they are and how much more withdrawl and damage they would eventually cause.

 

Mirtazapine I was given again in hospital about 1 month into lexapro withdrawl I'd say i had a mental breakdown by that point. Not sleeping for a single minute, akathsia through the roof, started hallucinating things when I closed my eyes.

 

The dizzyness and muscle aches and nerve pains and stomach pains started on the mirt which I've read is really common in a mirt fb group, and I didn't want to end up hooked on them and face another withdrawl etc. 

 

I'm so wary of taking lexapro again as I'm very traumatised from what's happened and still happening, but then I'm also fearful of having these symptoms for a longer period of time because I didn't reinstate you know? 

 

I definitely feel like I have had some improvements from 2 months ago, and also i can't say what symptomns are lexapro or mirt withdrawls. As I only stopped mirt very recently. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Myles]

@xero yeah increased floaters, had like smoke in my peripheal vision for a while, eyes shaking and trembling, bit blurry, hard to focus, sometimes they like pulse with my heartbeat and just glitch out at times. Also reading white writing with black background the words or lines kind of wave around like smoke.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Myles,

And thank you so much, for getting to all those questions.

 

And you've had quite the ordeal now, I agree.  You've been through a lot, and do seem to be pretty sensitized right now.

And sometimes antibiotics can set off some more nervous system instabilities as well.

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin(Z-pack), and other antibiotics

 

On 12/14/2020 at 3:37 AM, Myles said:

I'm so wary of taking lexapro again as I'm very traumatised from what's happened and still happening, but then I'm also fearful of having these symptoms for a longer period of time because I didn't reinstate you know? 

 

I definitely feel like I have had some improvements from 2 months ago, and also i can't say what symptomns are lexapro or mirt withdrawls. As I only stopped mirt very recently.

 

Improvements!  Yes.  The mirtazapine was shorter lived in duration anyway, not even a months worth of usage.........and so, that bodes well.  It can be a whole month sometimes with AD's, until one becomes dependant, or adapts to how the medication works.

 

And you are just about at the 3 month mark now, for being off of the Lexapro.

 

But yes, as there have been other things thrown in since that time, it's hard to know if it is just Lexapro WD.  Very likely that yes, you are still dealing with Lexapro WD, or WD syndrome now.  And it can take time, and patience for full recovery.  Meantime, be cautious, and use Drugs.com, to look up any medication, from here on out, before agreeing to it.

 

I think, if I were you, I might just go on, and do your best with non-drug coping skills.......beginning practices and finding out what helps the most with symptoms now.

 

What happened with the Magnesium and Fish Oil/Omega 3's.  I notice on your signature that you stopped them on December 11th?

And then, it's always a good idea when adding in anything, to just use single ingredient supplements, as well as just doing a trial of just one thing or change at a time.

 

And oh, I sure hope that as time passes you might begin to feel less scared, and traumatized by your experiences and feelings.  It's only been a couple of months now.  That must be hard.  Start to develop faith in your bodies capacity to heal......as well as your mind.......and spirit.

 

You might like the Finding Meaning Forum, and also I'm hoping you've found your way to the Symptoms and Self Care Forum as well.  Just go to the Home Page/Main page and you'll see the different forums.  The Self Care you learn now will go far into the future too.  I mean sometimes I feel like I am better prepared now, than I ever could have been, if I had not had all my experiences of WD.  I've had to hone practices and find or add new ones,  and you too will.......I am sure. 

 

Keep updating and posting and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

[Myles]

Thankyou so much @manymoretodays your words are like a beacon shining in the darkness im now consumed by, they are so very helpful! 

 

I seem to be struggling with histamine the most now well some of it is at least, itchy swollen lips and inside mouth and throat, trouble breathing, hives, itching, itchy eyes etc, Ive always had hayfever and some minor food allergies which nearly disappeared on lexapro! 

No being off I seem allergic to everything.

 

My new doctor was concerned about my blood pressure aswell, 154/85 when I saw him, might have to do a 24 hr blood pressure monitor. 

My 1 month headache and pain in my carotid arteries/neck and chest pain/palpatations, dizzyness could be from that. 

 

So not sure if thats causes by adrenal fatigue from all the stress and adreline/ panic attacks, anxiety ive constantly or what.

 

I exercise, eat healthy, I'm almost underweight if anything 😥 . .

He was talking about blood pressure medication pretty quickly.

 

I've been taking the magnesium and fish oil most days.

 

Again thankyou so much for taking the time out of your day to hear me and write to me ❤

[manymoretodays]

Hi Myles,

Where are you at with relaxation, meditation practices right now?  It's definitely well worth pursuing some. 

4 hours ago, Myles said:

So not sure if thats causes by adrenal fatigue from all the stress and adreline/ panic attacks, anxiety ive constantly or what.

 

I exercise, eat healthy, I'm almost underweight if anything 😥 . .

He was talking about blood pressure medication pretty quickly.

 

I've been taking the magnesium and fish oil most days.

 

3 ways Meditation Can help your heart, body, and mind

^ this one refers to covid19 stress, but the principles are the same for what happens in WD

Meditation offers significant heart benefits- Harvard Health

 

And then some onsite, non drug coping ideas:

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed out nervous system

Meditation on Loving-Kindness

Mindfulness and Acceptance

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

4 hours ago, Myles said:

I seem to be struggling with histamine the most now well some of it is at least, itchy swollen lips and inside mouth and throat, trouble breathing, hives, itching, itchy eyes etc, Ive always had hayfever and some minor food allergies which nearly disappeared on lexapro! 

No being off I seem allergic to everything.

 

And I seem to be addressing your symptoms backwards this morning!  Googly eyes

 

Histamine food intolerance

Histamine Intolerance can be associated with folks getting psych dx

 

You may want to visit beyondmeds.com

And then do a search on histamine response too.  GiaK has put together a large body of information, after going through WD herself.  You'll see that she started the other links, or topics here too, with the first post.

 

Are you taking any medications for this?  Or do you have antidote for if you have a severe allergy reaction?

 

Allergies, sneezing, stuffed up, nose, sinum- antihistamines and what to use for allergy relief

 

And also caution when using antihistamines, start low, go slow applies, and then some might go paradoxical, or give the opposite response than intended for.

 

And that's interesting Myles, I'm not sure if it's more related to the mirtazapine WD, or the ongoing Lexapro protracted WDsyndrome?

 

Have these symptoms increased after the mirtazapine?

 

Thank you too Myles.  Keep us updated.  And feel free just to post and connect.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Myles]

@manymoretodays hey there I hope you're doing well and merry Christmas and a happy New year! 

 

I'm managing to get the odd meditation in, did one before bed last night and fell asleep in my chair haha.

 

I'm getting some form of arrythmia and angina like chest pain (Ectopic beats) for hours and hours now like yesterday was at least 10 hours straight.

 

Plus the fatigue and lightheadness and social anxiety, agoraphobia is getting to me.

 

Like I said my doctors prescribed me a calcium channel blocker verapamil. Heart medication 

 

I've been checking my blood pressure at home and it's always around 120/80 or lower, after sleep the other night it was 95/53 so it's on the low and normal side.

 

I'm worried about my blood pressure getting dangerously low taking them and all the side effects that goes with that.

 

I'm really leaning towards a reinstatement of lexapro liquid form like 0.5mg I don't want to but I've had this heart thing going on months now.

 

I have zyrtec 10mg here for anti histamine.

 

Thanks so much as always ❤

[manymoretodays]

Hi Myles,

Good to hear of your successful meditations for sleep!

 

You know, I've got to encourage you to use Drugs.com, and check your verapamil there.  Right at the top, you can type in any medication and read all about it, including side effects. 

I just have to wonder always if a medication is making things worse instead of better.  Jaded???  Yes.  If new cardiac symptoms started after you started this medication, one has to wonder.

Call your cardiologist though, on your new cardiac symptoms.  Or if it is your regular doctor prescribing the verapamil....... this nothing to mess around with, call them.

 

If you do decide to reinstate, why not go with citalopram?  It's a bit different from escitalopram, and mg for mg, a bit weaker in strength.  And since you reacted to the escitalopram/Lexapro at that high dose of 20 mg, it would be safer.

 

Have you ever taken citalopram/Celexa?  And if so, how was it?

 

I would still stick with just 0.5 mg to start, and keep Notes/observations daily.  Good to do anyway, but especially if you do a reinstate.  Time on the left, drug(s) by name and dose on the left.  Then keep going with times on the left, and symptoms, supplements, activities, and sleep on the right throughout the day and night(after the fact at night, if you are sleeping).

 

Are you taking the Zyrtec?  Look it up too.  Drugs.com

And do a search here, as well.  I get better results doing a search for what we've got here by searching from my main browser.  I would just put in survivingantidepressants.org antihistamines, and then you can see what others in WD have experienced with antihistamines too.  Heh, heh, putting you to work......well, training you to stay empowered in your health care going forward I hope.

 

Okay.  All for now.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

[Myles]

Thanks @manymoretodays I always check potential side effects haha its the first thing my anxiety makes me do. 

 

I havent taken or started the prescribed verapamil because of how low my blood pressure is normally at home which I've been monitoring myself since being prescribed it! 

 

Also I haven't seen a cardiologist just doctors unfortunately.

 

And the heart issues all started from that fateful day of my adverse reaction to taking the accidental higher dose of lexapro. Had svt in the hospital given a betta blocker to correct it.

 

And since then I've had these palpatations which shake my entire body and cause my throat to feel like a spasm, had a 24 hour holter which showed ectopic beats, which from what ive found is mainly caused by anxiety and stress and I've read on a medical journal anti depressant withdrawl can cause rythym problems with the heart also.

 

So im assuming its all down to my cold turkey cessation of lexapro, because thats when it started, although before lexapro I used to get this every now and then briefly in the middle of the night I would suddenly wake up to my heart racing and flopping about which I'd hold my breath and it would stop, which I've found isn't that uncommon, a paramedic I spoke to once gets them haha.

 

Also the zyrtec I only take if I start getting hives or itchy which isn't all the time.

 

I haven't tried citalopram before, thing is I had to fight just to get his liquid lexapro prescription as no doctor I've spoken to believes in withdrawls over a few weeks or why I would need a liquid formula 

[manymoretodays]

Okay.  That's good then, that you've followed up with your regular doc and done the Holter moniter.

 

I can relate a bit.  With my PWS, over a year ago, when having a late Wave(the last one, I always say) and just generally a mess for a time......  I was feeling really stressed and would get headaches, and then that feeling of skipped beats in my heart rhythm, and also just so fatigued it wasn't funny.  I'd check my pulse......which was regular and strong.

 

And asked my GP if I could get an EKG with my physical.  Mine just showed the PVC's, which of course freaked me out a bit......but I was told it was a fairly normal irregularity.  So relaxed.

I've worked my caffeine intake down to a minimum and then am also about to take the final jump off the darn cigarettes, after tapering just about as far as I can go with them.  I think I'll still use a patch briefly, low dose nicotine.

 

And none of that ^, may even apply to you, sorry.  All about me.  Lol. 

But maybe there is some wisdom that does.

 

So yes though, work it, from the anxiety angle too........any of the non-drug coping that helps will help.  I'll share some of what does seem to help many, even in early WD, with the neuroemotions enhanced:

 

The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

and this one ^ is included in the links below too

 

Nice package that Ccat put together:

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

And then it does look like you are on to the value of the more meditative practices too.  Yoga might be good.  The daily walks in sunshine are great.  I actually enjoy all weather walks and nature walks and adventures/hikes, etc now, and always have.

 

Sounds good then, with the Zyrtec. 

You can do a self made liquid with the citalopram:

Tips for tapering off citalopram(Celexa)

there are further links ^, that would clarify how to do that

 

You could be honest, and just ask/tell your doctor you'd like to try a low dose of a milder AD than Lexapro, and suggest Citalopram.  I don't know that you'd have to tell them a whole lot more than that.

 

It is difficult, when often we can't get understanding or verification of WD from so many doctors right now.

 

So......anyway, many options and just keep on moving forward, and into hopes of healing.  It happens.  I think I'm there after so many years and many medications.  Finally.....relief.  It's work, or it has been for me.  Worth it though in so many ways. 

 

Best Myles.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Myles]

@manymoretodays sorry I haven't replied, thanks for sharing a bit about yourself, how long has it taken you to get to this point where you feel relatively ok now?

 

Little update on me its now been 4 months off lexapro and 2 months since stopping mirt, only took it for 2 weeks. 

Still have the chest pain, palpatations 24/7 muscles still tremble and shake over entire body, my right cheek muscle tightens and feels odd. 
Shimmering vision, severe neck pain and headaches every day.
Have had adrenal surges where my blood pressure sky rockets 160/100 the other day it's normally 110/60. .
Very depressed and anxious most of the time. 

Have become fairly house bound, really no interest in anything, I think the neck and head pain has caused that mostly, it's constant and becomes excruciating most days.

 

That and the chest pain prevents me from doing any exercise even walking atm.

 

Pretty lost at the moment.

 

Haven't started on any medication, not taking anything atm apart from magnesium and panadol sometimes.

[Myles]

😥

[manymoretodays]

Hi Myles,

Oh.....that sad face, I'm sorry I just ran out of time earlier when on.

On 1/28/2021 at 6:28 PM, Myles said:

Little update on me its now been 4 months off lexapro and 2 months since stopping mirt, only took it for 2 weeks. 

Still have the chest pain, palpatations 24/7 muscles still tremble and shake over entire body, my right cheek muscle tightens and feels odd. 
Shimmering vision, severe neck pain and headaches every day.
Have had adrenal surges where my blood pressure sky rockets 160/100 the other day it's normally 110/60. .
Very depressed and anxious most of the time. 

Have become fairly house bound, really no interest in anything, I think the neck and head pain has caused that mostly, it's constant and becomes excruciating

 

Sounds tough Myles.  And sheesh, you are having quite a few uncomfortable symptoms.

Is covid keeping you indoors?  Is the weather nice enough to just get out in nature once in awhile?  I know that really helps a lot.

 

Is the anxiety overall improved.  It seems like it would be hard to be or feel both anxious and emotionally numb, or lacking interest in stuff.

 

The lack of interest, is called anhedonia........and it won't last forever, but seems like it when you are in it.

Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

 

You could try some heat, at least to your neck for that pain.  If you can get a hold of some of the rice bags, with covers........that you then microwave.........in a size that you can make a neck wrap out of........that may help.  Do you have some of the more natural stores around you? 

Did I give you this topic to look at yet?  Migraine, headache, neck ache, and head pressure

And not so you focus on symptoms, but to see if there are any good coping tips in there too.

 

Searches on topics too, are easy to do.  Just go to your main browser and type in survivingantidepressants.org and then the topic of interest, or symptom that you are having, and worried about.

 

And then reach on out to some of the other members too, with support.........that can really help sometimes.

Explore some of the less symptom focused topics and forums too.  I used to hang out a lot, and go to Finding Meaning, or Off Topic, or just read whole Introductions on some members, to get to know their story too.

And oh my gosh, the Success Stories.  Go to that forum, and read as many as you can.

 

I am sorry it is still so symptom full, and you just are not feeling great right now.  Last window or improvement in any of your symptoms? 

This too, should start easing up into at least some Windows, or partial window days, Myles.

 

Take hold of your hand and give it a squeeze, for continued patience with healing.  Any doctors visits recently.  Sometimes just seeing the general doctor and getting a clean bill of health, or a good report, can feel good.   I mean I don't know, I sure did not want to see any doctors for awhile, if I did not need to.  If you can find a reassuring one, or even a therapist to work with, that you like.........sometimes it helps.

 

And cheering you on.  I am.   Face towards healing Myles.  It will happen. 

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 30, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Myles]

@manymoretodays no need to apologise, i know you are helping countless others on here and living your life on top, I appreciate how supportive you have been to me ❤

 

Yeah I've seen that post on migraines, nothing works for the pain not even strong pain killers.

 

I've seen so many doctors and been to the hospital so much in the past 4 months it's insane.

 

I'm having some test for adrenal tumors? It's called phaeochromocytyoma.

 

I have all those symptomns associated with it. 

 

But so do many in withdrawls of psych meds.

 

The anedhonia lasted maybe a few days or more which was actually kind of nice to feel nothing.

 

Back to the relentless anxiety and other symptoms.

 

The anxiety and panic was so bad I resorted to 2.5mg of valium for a week or so every other day. That was about 2 weeks or more ago, pretty out of it though, not exactly keeping track of time.

 

What would @Altostrata say about starting a low dose of citalopram? I know it's 4 months since I stopped the lexapro, also I feel like I've had some days of improvement and some days feeling worse.

 

I am sleeping which is something, first month off lexapro had intense insomnia, the extreme burning and parathesia has mostly gone aswell, plus the throat tongue, spasms, and my tinnitus has improved alot and id say my internal and external tremor has improved.

 

 

[Myles]

So last night was horrendous, panic for hours, then I'd describe I had akathsia again or some form mixed bipolar? Heap of nervous energy but also anxiety/panic/racing disorganised thoughts.

 

Agitation and irritability has been constant but goes through the roof when I feel like this.

 

Had it all night haven't slept at all. And tinnitus returned with it. 

I've been having a jolt like shock through my body aswell just before I potentially nod off, almost like some seizure, I feel my mouth and muscles contort and contract hard for a second

[Altostrata]

Hello, Myles. 

 

You had a horrible serotonin toxicity reaction from 20mg escitalopram last September, then a serious adverse reaction to pitzotifen, a serotonin antagonist, and nothing useful from mirtazapine. Plus, a course of an antibiotic in October that might very well have made you worse. In my amateur opinion, if I were you, I would not take a serotonergic again.

 

You may have escitalopram withdrawal syndrome, but you have also had a series of adverse drug reactions that have impeded your recovery.

 

What effect did Valium have on you? Have you tried acupuncture for the muscle symptoms?

 

 

[Myles]

Hello @Altostrata and thankyou for visiting my thread and thankyou for everything you have done for this community ❤

 

You know that's exactly what I thought had happened to me I told the doctors at hospital and my doctor and they just looked at me blankly and said it's not that.

 

My GP which I saw 4 days after the reaction and continued reaction, suggested i had undiagnosed bipolar due to the agitation and what I was experiencing. (Still am) and prescribed me seroquel 😥

 

The valium intitally ramps my anxiety up I think mainly because I'm scared to take it, I noticed I also get really hot and sweaty once it kicks in my anxiety and agitation and the internal vibrations/tremor is decreased, the next day after taking it I feel much happier and relaxed.

 

I did try accupunture once in the first month which he was only focussed on my headache which didn't do anything.

[Myles]

I should mention I have tried an ashagwandha, holy basil, bacopa mix aswell since stopping the valium which seemed to help with sleep and lowered my anxiety slightly. But had the extreme blood pressure rise and panic, severe neck pressure etc the other night not long after taking it. 

 

Which I have I've had the blood pressure spike and panic adrenaline surge many times before taking it. But not that extreme.

 

It's been two or three days since I've taken it, due to doing a urine test for that adrenal tremor test. 

 

So no doubt the reason my insomnia and extreme anxiety/agitation is back is from stopping them. 

 

I also took one 10mg zyrtec about a week ago, my headache actually let up and j felt very relaxed that day, I did feel spaced out and off balance, the valium had the same effect.

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

The valium intitally ramps my anxiety up I think mainly because I'm scared to take it, I noticed I also get really hot and sweaty once it kicks in my anxiety and agitation and the internal vibrations/tremor is decreased, the next day after taking it I feel much happier and relaxed.

 

How much did you take? This indicates the initial dosage of the Valium is too much. You are getting a paradoxical reaction, activation and sweating, from it.

 

You feel better when it partly wears off. It has a very long half-life; it's hard to say, but 24 hours later, we can estimate up to 25% has been metabolized.

 

If I were you, I'd try perhaps a quarter of the dosage you tried. You're feeling so ill, it may make sense for you to take it regularly for a while, maybe some months, to help your system settle down. It will ramp up over a couple of weeks, please do not get anxious and escalate the dosage unnecessarily. You probably will become physiologically dependent on it, but we can help you taper off later.

 

Your doctor doesn't know what he's talking about. I would mention "serotonin toxicity" to him when you ask him for the Valium prescription.

 

 

[Heath]

Hello Myles ! I have read you thread and am sorry you have been through so much the past few months. I see you have seen improvement in somethings that’s a very good sign ! 

 

I hit a rough patch in October also and took cipro antibiotic maybe in August or September which I believe was a factor in my wave. Iam still holding.  I have been in withdrawals many times as many here have and 15 years didn’t even know it was until I came here! I have allergies too! I had sinus surgery 20 years ago due to adverse reaction to Paxil I didn’t know and drs didn’t know. I look back and see where I chased physical problems/symptoms many times with dr visits that were due to ssri side effects or withdrawals. And yep they just prescribe medication with more side effects for those symptoms! Most don’t know anything about withdrawals from these meds! 
 

One thing I noticed with lexapro I’m more sensitive to allergies during allergy season. Get outta breath easier in hot summer. Once a family member told me is sometimes you have to just close the book for a while meaning for me to stop going to drs unless I am having something life threatening. I applied this and it seem to help me. But when I am in a wave or adverse reaction  it’s hard to see this due to anxiety. But since I have been learning all I can about this ssris here it’s easier for me to see it’s withdrawals. 
 

im not trying to make this about me I’m just trying to encourage you with some things that helps me:) self help goes a long way! I always tell myself get busy fix something clean something build something make something. Anything as small as making the bed. And yes it’s ok on the days I don’t feel like it I will do it tomorrow! Do things with good encouraging friends and family.  A lot of times the withdrawals symptoms would make me scared to do something with people but when I got there  I felt better and the feel good lasted maybe another day ! And like mmd said above getting in the woods walking. I used to on many occasions go deep in the woods and lay down and close my eyes and still do! You won’t think it helps at first but you will see as time goes on! 

This is one thing I try to follow 

acknowledge- what I am feeling is withdrawals/side effects. 
accept- can or cannot do anything about it . It will pass. 
float- let feelings and thoughts float on by don’t attach to them. 
I still struggle with float! 

As you can see you are in good hands The mods will guide you along the way and we are here to support you ! 
so Myles I want to encourage you to hang on ! This will pass ! 

[Myles]

@Altostrata I was taking 2.5mg half the 5mg single prescription I have. 60 pill packet or so.

 

I will need a jewellers scale to get an accurate cut down of the 2.5mg won't I? 

 

Ok I'll tell my new doctor, he is the only doctor I have seen that even recognises some form of protracted withdrawl, I read on the rxisk website they believe calcium channel blockers can assist with withdrawl which my doctor actually suggested. 

He's also a professor at university, and deals with heroin addicts here which 99% of doctors here won't even consider helping them.

 

Thanks so much that makes sense it was a reaction to that dose, the doctor who intitally prescribed me the valium didn't have anything to say when I said it makes me anxious and hot flashes and sweating. I think her answer was 2.5mg Is barely a therapeutical dose or some bs.

 

 

 

 

[Myles]

@Heath thankyou for stopping by and sharing your story and encouragment ❤

 

Yes definitely improvements in some things and then I'll get new symptomns, it's insane.

 

Like today I suddenly have extremely painful teeth, metallic blood taste in mouth for a week, and my right leg is now getting the sharp stabbing pains and deep squeezing pain my left sided chest has been having for months.

 

I've never been a hypochondriac or agoraphobiac until now, the symptomns have been that intense and traumatizing I've genuinely believed it's life threatening many many times 😥

 

I'm sorry you have been going through this nearly 15 years that is beyond cruel and unfair.

 

Funny enough my allergies were near non existent when on lexapro, and I'm allergic to all grasses and ragweed, dust. And alot of fruit and veg.

 

I live in Australia and I used to be always out doors mowing grass and landscaping etc and wasn't effected by it while on lexapro, didn't take an antihistamine the whole time apart from some weird reaction I had on my eye where the outer layer like bubbled up. 

 

I'm sure everyone here can relate to this, I've been grieving and so sad I feel like the old happy confident me has passed away, I used to get so so much done in a day, now getting a glass of water or like you say making my bed is an achievement, but I also recognised a side of me I didn't like on medication, I was apathetic, angrier and mean, and the real me is sensitive and extremely emphatic.

 

I also knew the amount of energy I had on lexapro wasn't normal, as I always struggled before it with energy and endurance even though I was quite fit, I couldn't even sit down and watch a movie anymore, I think I must of been agitated and irritable on the initial 20mg without even realizing because I was numb.

 

When I went down to 10mg I had no idea of tapering, I became very fatigued for that 6 months and slept the days away, but I was much nicer and more connected to my family and the world again and could actually sit and watch movies or tv for hours again happily.