Yesyes123: Will I ever be able to quit Lexapro?

[Johni]

Hello. I wouldn't recommend the big cut either. try 10% to get started. for me, 10% also caused a great deal of anger. Slowly but surely.

[Yesyes123]

Today is March 11 2021 and it is my first day of my first reduction on my taper. 

 

I am now on 13.5mg Escitalopram, a 10% reduction from 15mg following SA's guidelines.

 

I took my dose at 2am (weird time, but I have a weird schedule overall. I'm trying to keep it whithin 1 hour or so difference daily).

 

It's now 12:34 pm and I don't feel any different at this dose - if anything, I feel a little better. I think there definitely is a little less organic anxiety, 15mg seems to be a high dose for me.

 

Let's see how the next couple of days go.

[Gridley]

12 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

I took my dose at 2am (weird time,

I don't know your sleep schedule and maybe 2am is fine.  Lexapro, like other SSRI's, is an activating drug and we generally advise taking it in the morning, at least for those who have the usual sleeping time at night, to minimize its effect on sleep.

 

If you decide you want to move to a morning dose, you could move the dose earlier by one hour a day until you reach the time you want to take the drug.

 

Again, however, if 2am suits your sleep schedule, stay with it there.

 

 

[Yesyes123]

Thanks @Gridley,

 

Would it really be a problem to take it, say, 3 or 4 hours later tomorrow than the time I took today?

 

All these years I have always taken it as soon as waking up, sometimes with many hours of difference each day. And I never noticed anything these years. Of course I had changes in mood, but never attributed them to the drug or anything. Maybe I just didn't really notice what it was doing to me.

[Gridley]

23 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

Would it really be a problem to take it, say, 3 or 4 hours later tomorrow than the time I took today?

 

If what you're doing is working for you, stay with it.

 

We recommend moving the dose by one hour a day--no more--to avoid stress of the change on your system and to allow your system to become accustomed gradually to the new dosing schedule.

[Yesyes123]

As always, makes a ton of sense @Gridley. You're a hero, thanks once again.

[Yesyes123]

Update:

 

I'm very glad to have made the 10% cut. I feel lighter. I got some much better sleep this morning. I can feel a bit more. 

 

I know it's only day 1, but I am very excited to lower my dosage more in the near future. Let's see what happens this week.

 

Thank you everyone.

[Crochet]

Good for you yes, yes.  I'm happy for you.

 

By the way --- you can't make jokes about stopping your medication on a forum where many of the members are having panic attacks all day long!!!!  I still adore you.

 

Take care,

Crochet

[Yesyes123]

17 minutes ago, Crochet said:

By the way --- you can't make jokes about stopping your medication on a forum where many of the members are having panic attacks all day long!!!!  I still adore you.

 

You're right Crochet, I'm very sorry... just wanted to lighten the mood! Let's keep going. I am happy to be in touch with you during this journey. 

 

Peace and healing

[brassmonkey]

Do try to hit the dose weight as closely as possible. If aiming for 182 then I'd try to keep to a range of 180-184. At the higher doses being off will not make much difference as we discussed, but as you go lower it becomes more important and practice makes perfect.

[bijay]

@Yesyes123  I am so happy for you, that you been able to start getting off this stuff!  I have found that every time I do a dose reduction, just knowing that I am helping my body and mind get better puts me in a better mood   

 

Just a tip about the pills  - I shave my pills with a nail file, as I prefer that to handling the powder.  It's just my personal preference, it just seems less messy.  But however you do it, you can get a little more accurate average pill weight by weighing the entire prescription that you have, rather than just the pills being prepared for the week.

 

Best of luck on your journey to being well and drug-free!  

[Yesyes123]

13 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Do try to hit the dose weight as closely as possible. If aiming for 182 then I'd try to keep to a range of 180-184. At the higher doses being off will not make much difference as we discussed, but as you go lower it becomes more important and practice makes perfect.

 

Got it. Also, these portable scales may be off one way or another by about 0.005g anyway, right? So even if I hit exactly 0.182g every time, wouldn't it have some difference still?

[Nomansland]

Hello @Yesyes123,

 

brassmonkey told me, that when we use the same condition (like the same place, method....) when we make our doses, the scales error would be always the same. So yes, they have an error, but having the same condition everytime the scales tend to be "off" in the same way everytime. So in the end it shouldnt matter.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

[Yesyes123]

Hey,

 

How does a fast metabolism affect tapering and withdrawal? Am I more prone to WD for having fast metabolism? 

 

If I make a 10% reduction and feel no symptoms at all after 2 weeks, does that mean I can drop a little faster? Could symptoms from this 10% reduction start to show up after 2 weeks?

 

Thanks everyone for the continuous support.

[Colonial]

Please wait the full 4 weeks,

Dropping every 2 weeks at 10% is the accumulative total of dropping 20% on a regular basis, you will crash.

You may eventually find 10% every month is too much and have to cut back to 8%.

Slow and steady wins the race.

 

 

[Colonial]

As for the negative thoughts about how your life has been ruined, many times what we think has ruined us was actually our salvation from ourselves or "fate" in many ways.  As you say, You are losing so many people a day with Covid.  You don't know where You would be if You had stayed on the medication and not crashed.

 

For example, the possibilities of a negative life could be worse right now if You had stayed on the medication.  While it is hard to stay home and suffer, what might have happened on any given day if You had felt fine and gone out into the world?  Hit by a bus and be in a wheelchair?  Caught Covid Yourself and be on a ventilator or died Yourself? 

 

We always assume we are worse than we would have been.  And to some extent that could be true but not always. We simply don't know where life would have taken us, or more risky, where we would have taken ourselves, if the illness of withdrawal had not taken us under for a bit.  

 

If you can survive WD, you can handle anything.  It takes alot of discipline and sheer willpower.  After this, there shouldn't be much you wouldn't be able to get through.  At the time, that's not much comfort to the suffering, but as time goes by you see that the other things that used to bother you or make you anxious or angry?  Well, you see just how silly most of what you thought lifes problems really are.

 

But you have to want to get better for the right reasons.  To be a better you, a better son, spouse, citizen, etc.  Not out of revenge against those who "put me here". 

 

Doctors don't do things to hurt their patients.  They make the best decisions they can with the information they have. I have noticed that the people who make the slowest progress are the people who constantly go back to comments like:  "Idiot doctors, don't know what their doing, etc."  Those people tend to be stuck in an unforgiveness loop, and they fail to see the irony that they themselves followed the advice, so they weren't any smarter than the doctor who they keep blaming, yet they suppose the doctor should have known things that were "withheld" from them too, in many ways.

 

"We" have to become experts in this field because Our life depends on it, in a very real sense. But the people who become smug and condescending about how dumb their doctors are do not heal as fast as others.  I do not see you saying that alot, but to see the top 3 comment on why you want to recover as:

The deep desire to overcome this - that would be my revenge on the people who did this to me.

 

Well, that is a red flag, because hatred an anger requires a lot of energy and is anxiety provoking.

I don't really think, when reflected upon rationally, there is anyone who "did this to you".

And I don't want to see you waste your energy on looking for a phantom ghost to blame for something that happened.  

 

Maybe it is because you are still young, and when we are we think life will turn out "fairer" than it does or we still have the belief that Our life is under our control to a greater degree than it really is.  As we get older we see that life is to some extent, doing the best we can "surviving" the random pit falls that come our way.  if we learn to do that positively, we will be stronger and more resilient.  If we take everything in life too personally, we don't progress as well as we could and end up in cycles of despair.

 

[ChessieCat]

Just because you don't feel or notice symptoms does not mean that the brain isn't busy making adjustments.

[Yesyes123]

Thank you very much for stopping by and for the wise words @Colonial and @ChessieCat

 

As it states here in SA, some people are able to drop their dosages faster, right? If I don't feel any symptoms in the 4 weeks after the cut, it means I'm not extremely sensible to lowering the dose right?

 

I know you always indicate the safer approach, and that is very smart. But lowering my dose makes me feel better both physically and mentally with no ill effects so far. I know WD may hit months later, which is something to keep in mind. 

[Gridley]

8 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

If I don't feel any symptoms in the 4 weeks after the cut, it means I'm not extremely sensible to lowering the dose right?

Not necessarily.  Symptoms are often delayed.  They can also build up after a too-fast taper, lying in wait like an ambush, and the hit you when least expected.

 

Keep in mind that Lexapro is by far the strongest SSRI on the market and that the doses below 10mg are the most potent.

[Johni]

Hello. true i am not a mod but i am also narrowing cipralex. It is worth moving slowly. there is a saying for this with us, i hope you translate well on google. better late than never. I also had strong waves of anger at the 10% cuts. sooner or later you will realize that this is going to happen. but I can only suggest that slowly and cleverly. as you feel there is a problem to keep it. I am currently at 4.3 milligrams. very frustrating but it pays off in slowness believe it. I wish you strength and perseverance

[Colonial]

41 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

If I don't feel any symptoms in the 4 weeks after the cut, it means I'm not extremely sensible to lowering the dose right?

 

That MAY be true for people doing a taper correctly from the beginning but unlikely for those who crashed. We have 2 sets of people here, those wanting to do a taper correctly from the start and those in crisis. For someone in your position who crashed and reinstated, it is unlikely You could move faster without problems, especially at the lower dosages.

 

I seem to get the impression, although not specifically stated, that You want to get back to the 10mg mark as soon as possible. That you possibly feel that being put back on too high a dose is what is causing many problems.  While it is true reinstatement too high is a problem, I don't think you getting down to the 10mg mark is going to be a magic number to solving your symptoms.  While it was a dose you were stable on before your CT, it's not as if you will necessarily be better off once you get back to that dose.  10 mgs is still a very high dose for a reinstatement. So deciphering which of your symptoms are WD and which are from being put back on too much drug is kind of a huge ball of wax that cannot be easily separated.

 

So while I agree giving you 50% more of the med on reinstatement was not wise, it is NOT as if once you get down to the original dose you are going to have smooth sailing.  Whatever time your brain needs to recover from the CT is not going to be contingent so much on getting down to what was your prior stable dose as much as it's own particular time frame.  

[Yesyes123]

17 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Whatever time your brain needs to recover from the CT is not going to be contingent so much on getting down to what was your prior stable dose as much as it's own particular time frame.

 

Thank you once again.

 

I have recovered fully from CT. (Which was actually a fast taper for me, but still almost the same).

 

I have no physical symptoms, I can eat pretty much anything (including coffee & sugar, which I have quite a bit daily) sleep well, function normally. 

 

What is destroying me is the psychological side of this whole ordeal.

 

I can't believe I've been tricked into taking this """""harmless""""" drug for so long and want to be off of it by yesterday.

 

Although I know this is something that needs to be taken with extreme caution, I am listening to my body.

 

We are all experiment N=1 in this.

 

Hopefully I can decrease faster with no ill effects.

 

But that, only time can tell... I will not make any insane decisions, though.

 

Thank you everyone for the support.

[Colonial]

20 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

I have recovered fully from CT.

 

9 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Just because you don't feel or notice symptoms does not mean that the brain isn't busy making adjustments.

 

I won't continue to contradict you on this,

But I must respectfully say you have not recovered fully from the CT. 

 

On Feb. 12th you were still having crying spells and on just March 3 you were suicidal. 

Feeling better for a few weeks is not "full recovery".

 

As ChessieCat points out, lack of symptoms does not mean the brain has fully recovered.

It is probably wiser to say you are beginning to stabilize.

 

Stabilization is not the same as full recovery.

 

I am glad, however, the reinstatement does seem to be helping. You may want to work on processing the "negative emotions" and thoughts your having about what has happened before rushing into a taper. That negative stress can complicate and delay healing and actually make a big difference in how long your taper takes.

 

Please update your signature line with the date and dose of Your first drop.

Enjoy your evening!

[Yesyes123]

19 minutes ago, Colonial said:

On Feb. 12th you were still having crying spells and on just March 3 you were suicidal. 

Feeling better for a few weeks is not "full recovery".

 

Thank you for your support, and I know you mean all the best. Don't worry you're not contradicting me, i know you are honestly trying to help.

 

I hope I don't sound condescending or like I "know it all"...

 

I'm just posting insight on how I feel and what I'm thinking.

 

I definitely owe sooo much to the mods and all the priceless advice I got here...

 

Indeed, a "full recovery" (for me at least) would be being drug free and WD free.

 

What I meant to say is the symptoms I still had recently/ have currently are psychological, caused by the terror of learning what these drugs really are.

 

After a few months after reinstating, I don't have any of the symptoms I had during WD/ initial reinstatement.

 

In this physical aspect, I am fully healed from CT. What remains is psychological trauma (which can happen to anyone whether on drugs or not). In part from the trauma caused by CT, yes, but mostly from looking back and realizing how I was deceived.

 

it's different from having actual physical/ organic symptoms...

 

I don't have nausea, tremors, cortisol spikes, organic anxiety, none of that anymore. I am stable and have been more and more stable. I'm just shook from learning all that I have recently learned. 

 

Anyway, @Colonial you definitely have more experience than me on this, and I appreciate your input. 

 

As you know these things are very unique to each individual and each person will respond differently to CT, reinstatement, tapering etc...

 

I will definitely be on the safer side, take my time and listen to my body. 

 

Thanks everyone, peace and healing

 

 

[Colonial]

1 hour ago, Yesyes123 said:

In this physical aspect, I am fully healed from CT. What remains is psychological trauma (which can happen to anyone whether on drugs or not)

 

This may just be an issue of language translation into English, but I do think its more.

I do understand, I think what You are trying to say, is that You are currently physically symptom free.

That's great! Reinstatement does not work for everyone

 

What I think your missing, is You are assuming that means you will remain physical symptom free. 

What I am saying, is having a "window" is not the same as "healed' or "recovered".

 

The symptoms could come back, even without tapering.

 

That is the waves and windows pattern of recovery.

Good days and weeks and then bad.

I just don't want you to assume too much from feeling better in your first window, and rush.

 

The negative trauma we can carry from the experience is real.

Not dealing with it can itself, provoke a wave or return of symptoms if the stress of replaying what happened to us over and over in our mind causes an "anxiety loop".

How each of us deal with that is a personal journey.

 

We do have some great forums on understanding the "wave and window" pattern and on coping skills.

I hope you find them useful. 

 

Have a great night. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Colonial

[Yesyes123]

22 minutes ago, Colonial said:

I just don't want you to assume too much from feeling better in your first window, and rush.

 

@Colonial I understand your concern and how serious this is.

 

I will take my time and listen to my body.

 

Thank you once again...

[Crochet]

Hi Yes, yes,

 

I was happy to see that you currently have no physical symptoms of withdrawal/reinstatement! 

 

I also see that you are struggling with the trauma of the experience and the realization of dependence on a drug.  I feel the same and am sure that it is hindering my progress, the anxiety loop. 

 

I haven't been seeing my therapist for a while because she wanted to dig deep into childhood, etc. and I'm not up for that right now.  I'm thinking I might make an appointment and ask for help specifically with navigating/recovering from trauma and with coping skills.

 

Take care my friend,

 

Crochet

[Yesyes123]

(deleted post)

[Colonial]

I think once we are aware of things and have more knowledge in a specific area, we become more aware of how things connect and the true reality of a situation.  I don't think it's "bad luck" as much as now once we are fully aware of how things work we see the interconnectedness of things as they truly are, whereas before things just seemed random because we did not understand the true nature of things.

 

So our perceptions of events can change once we know the truth of them, but that is not always bad luck.  In a negative sense, doctors or the un informed may look at the situation and say: "It's just bad luck, or coincidence, or we are just being psycho somatic and making ourselves sick by worrying about symptoms, when in reality the truth is that the WD is the cause or more inter connected to things than the medical field realizes. 

 

The question of HOW things are connected, in ways that seem other than medical, is a debate that others engage in when there seems to be other types of causal connections that seem "non medical".  I have had this happen to me as well.  I had some very "weird" even spooky things happen to me during the worst of my WD. Does make some of us wonder.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Colonial

[Crochet]

Re: your deleted post

 

I felt the same.  My little brother jokingly told me that was the law of attraction, it didn't help.

[Yesyes123]

Someone who is extremely important to me, one of the best friends I've ever had just told me she went to a psychiatrist yesterday and she's going to start taking an SSRI. 

 

My heart is broken. I am speechless.

[Rosetta]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/health/antidepressants-withdrawal-prozac-cymbalta.amp.html
 

Show this to her.

 

Tell her that there can be adverse reactions that mimic withdrawal and last just as long.

Download the packet insert of her drug and give that to her.
 

Then, you have to back off and let her decide for herself.  If you get too frantic, she will reject your advice.

[Yesyes123]

Thank you so much for this @Rosetta. I am feeling terrible. I have been talking to her all day, sending links, saying all I have been through... she is a smart person. I don't understand how she isn't able to see what I'm saying.

 

She says she has had depression for so long and she's scared to keep "letting it untreated". She says she wants to treat it like any other disease.

 

She said she's starting Fluoxetine today. I told her to wait until we can meet and talk this through in person. 

 

I already put it in a frantic way for her, which I regret but I won't beat myself over this because I know how much terror she's potentially getting herself into.

 

I am trying to get her to take fish oil for a month before starting the drug. Let's pray she listens to me. This is just painful. I can't imagine such a fragile, sensitive girl going through SSRI withdrawal. I don't know if she would be able to handle it.

 

What a world, what a mess.

[Rosetta]

Prozac is probably the safest one, fortunately.  Just because she takes it does not mean she will CT and have WD.  
 

You can change your focus to telling her how to use it safely.  Yes. It can be used safely.  The trick is to never miss a dose, never double the dose if one is missed  (that is very important), and to taper slowly off.  She’s lucky that you are aware of this site.  
 

If she has any problems, she’s needs to know that changing drugs is the way a lot of people get sick.  The doctors don’t know that cold switches, like mine, destroy people.  She should never raise the dose either.  Doctors raise the dose by whatever amount is convenient in pill form.  Raising the dose destabilizes the system if it is done by doubling or tripling the dose.  Doctors have no idea.  They just trust the pharmaceutical companies.

 

You have to treat her with respect.  You are probably having neuro-emotions that make it hard to see that her situation is manageable.  I still have neuro-emotions 4 years off.  She’s going to have to learn about these issues, and read the cautionary tales, but at least these issues are in the news now.  At least there is awareness now.  This does not have to be a disaster.

[Yesyes123]

I did everything I could. At least I can rest assured about this.

 

I gave her all the best info I could find, presented in a digested way so she could easily grasp it.

 

I spent all day messaging her and replying to her questions.

 

This has been my entire day today.

 

I actually got muscle tension in my back from overthinking this. 

 

She has decided to start Fluoxetine 20mg. She said her doctor was extremely happy to give her the drug, and he guarantees she will feel much better on it. 

 

She must think I am insane or something now from the way I spoke to her about this - even though I did my best to be reasonable and calm.

 

A friend I've had for so many years. Probably doesn't see me the same way anymore. I wish these little things didn't make me want to kill myself. Especially regarding these drugs.

 

It's such an insane thing. As sick and twisted as it sounds, part of me wishes that she has an immediate adverse reaction and stops the drug. Not only so I can be like "I told you so!" But so she won't keep taking it for 50 years or even worse... make this the gateway to antipsychotics/ mood stabilizers.

 

I don't know why things need to be like they are. It's so hard to love this kind of fate. Anyway - I can't force anyone not to hurt themselves. At least I am on my way out of this living hell, never to come back into it.

 

Peace and healing

[Yesyes123]

2 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Just because she takes it does not mean she will CT and have WD.  

 

Even if she doesn't CT and never has WD, it just upsets me so much that someone so close to me has a healthy non-drugged brain and actually told me about what they were planning to do and I was unable to stop them, even after all the research I've done, even after all the horror I've seen. Maybe I'm just too proud, though.

 

The thing is once you take the first pill, it's so easy to have big problems. I was put on it for mild depression, basically nothing.

 

Over the last 6 years I tried to stop multiple times - only to find myself crying and desperate for no reason, which led me to reinstate after a few days every time thinking I needed the drug and it was such a small price to pay for the awesome life I had. 

 

I had no clue. How would I know? How would I get to SA earlier? My former doctor is an absolute monster. He told me to quit reading about the drug. He told me not to look for other sources of information other than him. And even worse, I trusted that absolute monster in the body of a balding man.

 

God, I wonder what kind of karma I must've brought into this existence.

 

Okay, enough of negativity and **** talking. I am extremely thankful for all of you and I will make it out of this.

 

Peace and healing