Neon: Venlafaxine withdrawal

[Neon]

03/08/21

sleep 1am-08:00 get up, feel shaky, slept okay but massively tired still

08:30 drive to psychiatrist

10:00 take 50mg Venlafaxine

10:00 talk to psychiatrist, am upset because he thinks withdrawal is a sham and the forum a pool of mud

11:00 drive home

12:00 have lunch

13:00 try to take rest, very tired, cant rest, too much electricity running through body and palpitations, aka 4/10, anxiety 2/10

14:00 try watch tv, anxiety 4/19

15:00 just slowly pace through house trying to distract, smoke a lot

16:00 watch tv, anxiety 5/10, plus other symptoms

18:00 eat dinner

19:00 go for bike ride

20:00 watch some tv

21:00 sit with family

21:30 take Olanzapine 5mg

22:00 go to bed, cant sleep

01:00 take 0.25mg Olanzapine

02:00 fall asleep

 

The symptoms were pretty constant today, aka around 3-4/10, shakyness feeling, anxiety started around 2pm and stayed at 4/10 throughout day, also no window in evening as I usually have, that made sleeping difficult and had to take lorazepam, I will try to hide that away from me since it probably only upsets the system further

[Neon]

04/08/2021

02:00-10:00 sleep, restless the last few hours

10:00 take 50mg Venlafaxine

11:00 do some house chores

12:00 eat lunch, some aka 2/10

13:00 try to rest, cant

14:00 watch some tv, feel mostly fine, some electricity feeling and palpitations

16:00 go for walk, feel okay

18:00 eat dinner

19:00 watch tv, feel very tired, electricity and palpitations stronger 5/10, some aka 2/10

21:30 take 5mg Olanzapine

22:30 go to bed

[rupa]

20 hours ago, Neon said:

04/08/2021

02:00-10:00 sleep, restless the last few hours

10:00 take 50mg Venlafaxine

11:00 do some house chores

12:00 eat lunch, some aka 2/10

13:00 try to rest, cant

14:00 watch some tv, feel mostly fine, some electricity feeling and palpitations

16:00 go for walk, feel okay

18:00 eat dinner

19:00 watch tv, feel very tired, electricity and palpitations stronger 5/10, some aka 2/10

21:30 take 5mg Olanzapine

22:30 go to bed

Dear Neon,

Did you read @bhasski

Today bhasski's story , my story ,and other members stories, who are doing well in recovery process is evident that,if we be patient, accepting what ever is our brain in withdrawal years,we will get heal. Definitely.

Remember every story and experience,are different,still we all got healed with time.

In one story ,so many drug changes and quitting,in another story only a single drug cold turkey,etc other stories,but the result is the same, withdrawal with fearsome brain prompts and thought process,some times,even other organ damage.

still for each and every person recovery possible,no matter the history and the story.Within few years,brain gets back to normal state.

Only thing required is patience,knowing we are not gonna die with chaosed brain.

If you want ,you quit every drug in the manner,I previously suggested,then practice silence every year.

Year after year,brain heals itself.

Just live like it's not your brain,which is prompting.

Just listen but don't react and feel.

Take your like-minded God and chant his name,24/7,365 days silently ,within you.

After few years ,you will notice , everything seeming normal.

Be patient.

Be patient.

Be patient.

 

[Neon]

Dear @rupa

thank you so much for your lovely and encouraging words. You give me much hope. 🙂 

I will definitely look at all these stories. When in the thick of withdrawal one is so scared that the state is permanent but with your words it got a little easier.

I dont think I dare to try your method. I already did so much to make it quicker and it was a very scary place I went. I am happy it worked for you but I think I will take it slow this time.

I am so happy you stopped by, I will try the silent chanting of my god, I should really start a spiritual practice again. I used to but stopped when it got really bad. Have you too had akathisia?

[rupa]

@Neon

Yes,neon,Back then I didn't know it's called akathesia.

I was walking 24/7,even while eating.

I was not leaving the single name chant,om om om om,while walking,to escape racing thoughts.

I have adopted ground floor for only for me,changing my children accomodation to upstairs.

Thus I could maintain complete silence.

My community people felt weird, watching me, walking, even at twelve noon.

I said I am in weight loss programme.

I lost weight ,I lost vitamins in my body.

After reaching zero by slow tapper,I suffered severe vitamin d and calcium deficiency,my lower back got weak.

But,it's all history now.

I got recovered.

I am doing art with oil paints like in  my past,editing videos for my  youtube channel, gardening, household work,cooking,watching k-soaps,smiling,laughing,visiting pilgrimages in pandemic thus enjoying low croud and solitude there,now am a quoran mostly concentrating on helping others by relevant answers,enjoying music,am being away from social media when ever I want like a normal person.

[rupa]

@Neon

Dear,it's always suggestable to stop by tapper than sudden cold turkey,that too,you are doing it at high doses.

Rather it's better to do slow and steady gradual tapper.

My suggested method worked for covid patients to come out from remdesivir.

[Neon]

Dear @rupa

wow your story is really inspirational. right now I am feeling a bit depressed because of an article I read that suggested that akathisia can even come after a gradual slow taper. I am trying to be positive and make the best of what I have. The anhedonia is quite strong but better than the aka. I try to tell myself I can heal but it is sometimes hard to believe and I never want to enter the state I was im before.. I came close to ending it.

 

Anyways that is over now and I need to concentrate on healing even if my brain is often negative.

 

Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your story. You are wonderful. You have been through a lot and you made it and that gives me hope. 🙂 And you are even painting, that is amazing. I used to like drawing and painting. Right now I have to force every activity.

[Neon]

05/08/2021

00:30-08:00 wake up from restless sleep

10:00 get up, take 50mg Venlafaxine

11:00 do some house chores, electricity feeling, aka 3/10, palpitations

12:00 eat lunch, same symptoms

13:00 some gardening, same symptoms

14:00 watch some tv, same symptoms

17:00 go for walk

18:00 eat dinner, symptoms less

19:00 read a little bit, difficult because of aka (2/10) electricity (07/10)

20:00 watch tv, cant concentrate, restless

21:30 take Olanzapine, cry because I am scared I will be stuck on this medication and scared from Olanzapine side-effects after I read a different Shipko article

22:30 go to bed, take long to fall asleep

01:00 fall asleep

[rupa]

13 hours ago, Neon said:

Dear @rupa

wow your story is really inspirational. right now I am feeling a bit depressed because of an article I read that suggested that akathisia can even come after a gradual slow taper. I am trying to be positive and make the best of what I have. The anhedonia is quite strong but better than the aka. I try to tell myself I can heal but it is sometimes hard to believe and I never want to enter the state I was im before.. I came close to ending it.

 

Anyways that is over now and I need to concentrate on healing even if my brain is often negative.

 

Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your story. You are wonderful. You have been through a lot and you made it and that gives me hope. 🙂 And you are even painting, that is amazing. I used to like drawing and painting. Right now I have to force every activity.

Every negative story makes us feel like we may be there in future.

But ,no.

Not everybody have to face post tapering symptoms.

Nevertheless

Every post taper symptom passes away with time.

While on medicine and in tapper, concentration is difficult.

Go kind on the brain,don't push anything,even for any work.

[Neon]

@rupa thank you again for that ❤️. at the moment the memory is still very hot, but it will take a few years before I can jump off and I hope then I am ready. 

 

[Neon]

sleep 01:00-08:00

10:00 get up, take 50mg Venlafaxine

11:00 go shopping, minor restlessness, headache

11:30 cry a little bec I might be on meds forever

12:00 eat lunch, big appetite

13:00 try to rest, very tired

14:00 do some chores

15:00 take shower

16:00 watch tv, very tired. headache

18:00 eat dinner, anxiety 1/10

20:15 watch some tv, very tired

21:30 take 5mg Olanzapine

23:00 go to bed

00:30 fall asleep

 

It was a better day. I had almost no palpitations and electricity. I just developped a headache and had some minor anxiety and feel tired all day.. overall much better.. I just need to work on the trust that one day can come off the meds.. that article shook me pretty much

 

[Neon]

Dear @Altostrata

it seems I have lost the ability to sleep without a benzo. I forgot to mention I also had to take one two days ago. and probably today too since it is already 1am. my akathisia was at 07/10 today. am a bit lost since I dont know why I am taking the other medication really.. reinstatement doesnt seem to have worked and Olanzapine doesn’t help with sleep anymore..

[Neon]

08/08/2021

08:00 wake up

10:00 get up, take 50mg Venlafaxine

10:00 drive to family friends house

13:00 eat lunch, feel terrible, aka 07/10, tired

14:00 aka 7/10, tired

15:00 go dip in pool aka 8/10

16:00 aka 7/10

18:00 aka 6/10

19:00 aka 8/10, eat dinner

20:00 cry because I dont know what to do, I am constantly depressed or have aka or both

21:30 take 5mg Olanzapine, cant sleep because of intense electricity feeling and restlessness, cry out of desperation

22:00 try sleep meditation, cant get through it bec too restless

01:00 take 0.5mg Lorazepam

02:30 take another 0.5mg Lorazepam

03:00 fall asleep

[Altostrata]

@Neon, you need to include in your daily notes how you feel before and after taking venlafaxine. How do you feel when you wake up? Do you have akathisia symptoms in the morning before you take venlafaxine?

 

On 8/7/2021 at 2:25 AM, Neon said:

It was a better day. I had almost no palpitations and electricity. I just developped a headache and had some minor anxiety and feel tired all day.. overall much better..

 

Did you take lorazepam the prior night?

 

When did this insomnia start? Hasn't the olanzapine been helping you sleep? How do you feel after you take olanzapine?

 

You will need to note whenever you take lorazepam, and the dosage. This will affect your symptom pattern. 

 

As noted earlier, 50mg venlafaxine may be too high a dose for you, and 5mg olanzapine may be causing a paradoxical reaction.

 

 

[Neon]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

you need to include in your daily notes how you feel before and after taking venlafaxine

I will take more care in doing that. 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

How do you feel when you wake up? 

I feel already restless when I wake up but will take more care in noticing how I feel after I take the Venlafaxine

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Did you take lorazepam the prior night?

Yes I did. Sry it was so late I forgot to put it in, wont happen again.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

When did this insomnia start?

It started around 6 days ago, so for three times every second day I had to take the Lorazepam.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

When did this insomnia start? Hasn't the olanzapine been helping you sleep? How do you feel after you take olanzapine?

Yes for the past 5 weeks since taking it, 5mg always helped me sleep so I am a bit worried that it stopped now, dont know how to proceed. I dont notice an increase in symptoms after I take it. I used to feel better after but now I just feel the same way.

 

My sleep has been really messed up before I took any medication and before the onset of the akathisia.

The akathisia started pretty much exactly 10months after my last dose of Venlafaxine before I took any medication, so I guess it was that famous wave. I just didnt read about that before and freaked out completely and did some really stupid things.

I guess the akathisia is still withdrawal from the Venlafaxine and reinstatement didnt work and the Olanzapine covered some of it for a while and now it is not working anymore, I dont know. And I just have to wait it out. It was pretty much gone for a week after reinstating Venlafaxine and taking Olanzapine but I guess I messed thinks up for myself by reducing both. I hope I learned a lesson from that.

 

@Altostrata I hope that answers all your questions. I will keep posting daily notes.

 

08/08/21

09:00 wake up, stay restless in bed

10:00 get up, take 50mg Venlafaxine, akathisia already present 5/10

11:00 do some chores, aka 7/10

12:00 eat something aka 07/10

13:00 go for a bike ride to distract

14:00 aka 05/10 helped a little bit

15:00 try to rest, pace around aka 6/10

16:00 eat

17:00 aka 07/10, lie down, feel completely exhausted, emotionally drained, cant rest at all

18:00 take another bike ride

19:00 sit with family aka 05/10

20:00 try to watch tv, cant too much aka

20:30 go to quite room, listen to rain, trying to rest

21:00 take 5mg Olanzapine
21:30 feel the same, praying I will sleep tonight

[Altostrata]

It appears you reduced from 75mg venlafaxine to 50mg on August 1, but your notes show sleeplessness on July 31 -- also use of lorazepam.

 

Have often have you taken lorazepam since July 31? Every night?

[Neon]

@Altostratano, not every night, three nights. 

July 31st I had intense anxiety because I kindled my system with the Venlafaxine increase, that is why I had to take it that night.

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Neon said:

It started around 6 days ago, so for three times every second day I had to take the Lorazepam.

 

Around 6 days ago is when you increased and then decreased venlafaxine, to 50mg.

 

You may still be taking too much venlafaxine. I believe we discussed this before?

 

On 7/31/2021 at 2:35 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Yes, it appears that 75mg is too much. It is possible 37.5mg is not sufficient. But there are many numbers between 37.5 and 75. You might want to try 40mg and see if that minimizes your symptoms without greater anxiety.

....

 

[Neon]

09/07/2021

05:00 wake up, fall back into very restless sleep

10:00 get up, take 50mg Venlafaxine, akathisia 9/10

11:00 do some gardening

12:00 eat lunch

12:15 notice some decrease in akathisia 4/10

13:00-15:00 do some chores, try to keep busy

16:00 go for grocery shopping

17:00 notice uptick in symptoms again akathisa 7/10

18:00 try watch some tv, unable

18:30 eat dinner

19:00 go for bike ride

20:00 try watch tv again, cant

21:00 take 5mg Olanzapine

 

dear @Altostrata

I took care paying attention to how I felt before and after the drugs today. The akathisia was already going on when I woke, around 2 hours after I took the Venlafaxine it eased a little bit, in the evening it got stronger again. After the Olanzapine I noticed no difference, it didnt help but doesnt seem to make it stronger. Overall today was tougher than yesterday, maybe because I didnt take a benzo the night before.

 

It seems the Venlafaxine helped the akathisia. Do you think I should try and updose a small amount?

[Altostrata]

You're taking venlafaxine XR? Peak plasma is "within 6.0±1.5 and 8.8±2.2 hours" after ingestion.

 

Your evening akathisia sounds like excessive activation from the morning venlafaxine XR when it ramps up each day. You feel better in midday, when it's at a lower level.

 

As suggested before, 50mg venlafaxine appears to be too much for you.

[Neon]

I am so desperate, I dont know what to do, this feeling of aka is so relentless. and I dont know whether I kindled myself or if it is still the original aka. The Olanzapine seems to have stopped working for sleep. So I wonder why I am even taking it at this point. Venlafaxine reinstatement wasnt successful. Or rather they both worked and I had a week of sweet relief before I messed with the dosages and now it doesnt seem to help anymore. I dont know what to do. It seems so hopeless.

[Neon]

I tell myself that I will heal over and over but if the aka is from

one of the drugs that cant happen. And I dont know if or from which drug. I had it prior to taking any drugs so it might just be that it is just still from the Venlafaxine withdrawal. I am really desperate. So sorry to not have more positive updates.

[Neon]

I wondered if I could still stop the medication after 6 weeks or if I am already dependent? Probably I am.. its just I have relentless akathisia even on them and I dont sleep anymore without a benzo. If I have to add a benzo permanently, is it best to take Diazepam? I feel like it cant get much worse even if I stop my medication. I dont know maybe I am wrong. 

I am so sorry about constantly being in the same loop, I just want to make the best decision and I have no idea anymore what that is.

[Neon]

@Altostrata what do you suggest?

[Neon]

@Altostrata, should I downdose to 40mg?

[rupa]

@Neonplease read below post, something went wrong it came as another post.

[rupa]

Dear neon.

1)When I did taper I thought the method forum suggested is useful for the person who is encountering sleep deprivation due to cold turkey.

2)So to get help for sleep,instead of get introduced to benzo,I have depended on olanzapine.Which I have tapered as forum suggested 10% four weeks,giving ample time to the brain to rewire.

3)While doing that

I have tapered risperidone in following method.

1 mg risperidone,so decided to do  cold turkey only to restart minute doses within window period to escape coldturkey effects,did wait for eight days,from the eighth day took minute dose for twenty more days and stopped.

4)My relative got introduced for remdesivir 10  due to covid recently.

He never experienced cold turkey ,so made him use minute doses 0.5 mg for 25 days and ask him to stop.

Not a single symptom to him.

5) So ,if I apply my logic and commonsense,keep olanzapine for slow taper for your sleep,rest all you stop eight days and take lowest dose possible for one month.Then stop.(Where your akathesia effect  should be reduced )

Thus the new harm been stopped.right?

6)Now,to save the brain from past harm,be with patience,the moment you stopped all stimulating and disturbing drugs in a proper process giving brain one more month time to habituate to only olanzapine,half problem subsided.

7) now gradually brain feels soothe from last 10 years of chaos,slow and steady comes out from the olanzapine too,rewiring every month,slow and steady.right?

8)At this stage read my kind of threads,take food help too to get few more hours sleep

9)Rely on patience,satisfy with what ever sleep you get.

10)One fine day ,you will reach zero

Your stamina and capacity ,sleep,rest,smile ,laugh,intellect, everything comes back intact,peace every where.

 

[Neon]

Thank you @rupa, I try my very best to incorporate some of this. At the moment I am having a wave so I am not really in a state to do much at all. The aka has really ramped up again and I cant describe it any different than hell.

 

@Altostrata are you sure the aka is a side effect from the medication? could it also be a wave? 

I was thinking of trying GABA in the evenings to avoid taking the benzo for sleep, what do you think?

[Neon]

2nd 09/08/21

22:00 go to bed

22:00-01:00 lie awake with aka 3/10, feel immense tension in my body, all day actually

01:00 take 0.5mg Lorazepam

03:00 take another 0.5mg Lorazepam

03:30 fall asleep

[Neon]

Today was pure hell, aka 10/10 pretty much all day. No fluctuations, it was constant. 

10/10/21

09:00 wake up, aka 9/10

10:00 take 45mg Venlafaxine

11:00 pace around. aka 10/10

I did nothing but that all day, it was constant until I caved in around 7pm and took 0.5mg Lorazepam

After that felt fine aka-wise but foggy.

11:00 go to bed

 

I think I will become addicted to benzos. I applaud all those people out there who suffer through aka without taking anything but it seems I am not that strong. I am proud I made it this long without looking for respite in benzos but I cant take it any longer.

[Holly18]

Neon,

I can see you're going through some tough times. We all do, it's part of the withdrawal process. 

So you've been taking benzos twice a week for the past 6 weeks? 

I always have been very afraid of those pills as they can be very addictive, although I myself take a benzo once every couple of weeks. 

 

In any case, take it one day at a time, the next window may be just around the corner. Every day that passes, no matter how hellish it was, you're getting closer to your goal.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Where are venlafaxine or olanzapine in those daily notes, or the akathisia peak you reported? As requested several times, please put ALL your drugs in your daily notes, and your symptom pattern before and after taking each drug -- basically, any symptoms you have throughout the day and night. Please post those notes 24 HOURS AT A TIME.

 

I need this information before I can make any constructive informed suggestions. Not having this information may have delayed resolution of your symptoms. Please do not make me repeat this request. 

 

We have been discussing reducing venlafaxine since early July. 

 

On 8/8/2021 at 12:54 PM, Altostrata said:

It appears you reduced from 75mg venlafaxine to 50mg on August 1, but your notes show sleeplessness on July 31 -- also use of lorazepam.

 

Have often have you taken lorazepam since July 31? Every night?

 

Do you feel better, worse, or the same after reducing venlafaxine to 50mg?

 

Now that you're taking lorazepam intermittently, you may also be feeling rebound or interdose withdrawal from lorazepam.

[rupa]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:17 AM, Neon said:

Today was pure hell, aka 10/10 pretty much all day. No fluctuations, it was constant. 

10/10/21

09:00 wake up, aka 9/10

10:00 take 45mg Venlafaxine

11:00 pace around. aka 10/10

I did nothing but that all day, it was constant until I caved in around 7pm and took 0.5mg Lorazepam

After that felt fine aka-wise but foggy.

11:00 go to bed

 

I think I will become addicted to benzos. I applaud all those people out there who suffer through aka without taking anything but it seems I am not that strong. I am proud I made it this long without looking for respite in benzos but I cant take it any longer.

Neon

Dear,How are you doing?

Since,chennai ayurveda made you feel little better ,you are welcome to India,once again,south Indian food would help you come out of the symptoms like me and bhasski.

Please do write your daily notes.

 

 

 

[Neon]

@Altostrata what is rebound withdrawal? you mean I triggered it with the Lorazepam?

My family forced me to go back up to 75mg Venlafaxine or they wont take care of me anymore.

 

Since you said you cant work with me if I do that I stopped posting updates.

I had a short window two days ago but it went away fast. 

Should I try to stop the Ativan? I am at 0.5-1mg daily, I already built a tolerance. I could try to do that.

But as I said it you cant work with me like this I understand. 

Thanks everyone for your support. Thank you @Holly18, thank you @rupa, it means the world to me but I feel I am not strong enough to endure this.. I don’t know how you did it. Without Ativan I cant sleep anymore, the Olanzapine simply stopped working, I don’t even get the hunger from it as I used to.

[Neon]

Is it even possible to stabilize on a benzo? since I would have to increase the dosage regularly for its effect to take place.

[Neon]

I may add that my best I felt on 75mg Venlafaxine and 5mg Olanzapine, but maybe I messed it up trying to lower dose.

The past week was pure hell, aka 24/7 with no peaks just constant hell.

 

16/07/2021

09:30 woke (after taking 0.5mg Lorazepam and 5mg Olanzapine)

10:00 get up, take 75mg Venlafaxine, Olanzapine 2.5mg) have aka immediately after getting up

11:00 smoke a lot aka 6/10

12:00 manage to eat sth

13:00 smoke a lot, pace around, lie in bed, aka 6/10

15:00 try watch some tv, aka 7/10

16:00 take a shower, get fever but to infection like sore throat etc, already had day before but higher)

17:00 get fever (maybe from Venla updose but less than the day before)

17:30 get anxiety 4/10, stays with me for the rest of the day

18:00 have consultation with psychiatrist who works holistic with lots or supplements, tells me I might have irreparably damaged my system and she probably cant help me) aka 7/10

19:00 deep despair, panic

20:00 smoke, pace, deep despair, feel completely hopeless

21:30 take 5mg Olanzapine, feel unchanged after Olanzapine

22:30 take 0.5mg Lorazepam

01:00 still cant sleep, take another 0.5mg Lorazpeam

02:00 sleep