Neon: Venlafaxine withdrawal

[Neon]

Before

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Neon said:

21:30 sudden feeling of agitation, despair, euphoria morphed into this feeling, think it might be from the Lorazepam

 

At what time o'clock did this symptom occur?

[Neon]

21:30 it occurred, it started just  before taking the Olanzapine

[Neon]

I am sorry for waisting everyones time. I am so acutely suicidal with the aka being so strong that I cant live like this. I think I will go to a clinic, I am too scared of what I would do. They probably cant help but there is a minute chance they can and I cant continue like this. the self-harm impulses are way too strong.

[Neon]

@Altostrata I managed to not go to a clinic after all

day was horrific, strong SI surges, self-harm impulses, intense restlessness

 

4/5.09.2021

21:30 go to bed after taking 5mg Olanzapine

lightly restless, despair feeling, no hope

00:00 fall asleep

08:00 wake up, intense restlessness, aka 9/10, feel like going crazy, go to bed and cry in despair

10:00 take 112.5mg Venlafaxine, 2.5mg Olanzapine, 0.25mg Lorazepam

11:00 aka gets a little better 7/10

12:00 manage to eat sth

my aka seemed to have morphed from only mental to both mental and physical, wander around aimlessly in house, try to distract, nothing works, cry some more, wander around again,

do that the whole afternoon with no changes in intensity.. have the strong urge to updose the Venla as before that helped

16:00 cave in and take another dose of 0.25 Lorazepam, SI surges and self-harm impulses are too strong, symptoms calm 10%

19:00 take 0.25mg Lorazepam, force down some food, almost throw it back up 

20:00 try to lie in bed, cant bec too restless, get up do some more aimless pacing

21:30 take 5mg Olanzapine

 

[Neon]

Do you think I could try and updose the Venla? It did give me some relief before when I did it. And it magically made everything disappear when I reinstated it at 75mg. I just dont understand why it is not helping anymore.

P.S. should I try the Omega again since apparently it wasnt the reason for the worsening of symptoms

I dont know what do do, I feel like dying.

[Neon]

I am pretty sure this is still the aka from the Venla withdrawal and I messed up the reinstatement. I was perfectly fine at 75mg, why did I reduce it??

sorry to be so negative, I know I am spiralling into negative thinking, it is just so hard not to.

[Neon]

and I should definitely not cross-taper to diazepam as long as I am this unstable.. I could get a liquid

[Altostrata]

51 minutes ago, Neon said:

day was horrific, strong SI surges, self-harm impulses, intense restlessness

 

At what times of day is this most intense?

 

Neon, please remind yourself that these symptoms are most likely caused by the drugs you are taking.

 

As discussed for months earlier in this topic, it is possible the venlafaxine in the morning is causing symptoms of activation several hours later. Increasing the venlafaxine dosage from 50mg to 112.5mg, which you did on your own, increases the adverse effect.

 

Taking 112.5mg Venlafaxine, 2.5mg Olanzapine, and 0.25mg Lorazepam together at 10 a.m. may also be causing an unpleasant interaction several hours later.

 

It is likely the lorazepam is dampening the activation from the other drugs, but you experience interdose withdrawal from lorazepam in the morning.

 

I see you added an extra dose of lorazepam at 16:00 yesterday.

[Neon]

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Neon, please remind yourself that these symptoms are most likely caused by the drugs you are taking.

@Altostrata I am just so confused because I had these exact same symptoms before I was on any meds and then when they started and the aka became so strong I went a bit mad an did all that stupid stuff. also on 75mg Venlafaxine I was doing really well for two weeks before I decreased the dosage and since then it is really rough.

Also when I increased the dose to 112.5 the aka suddenly was much more tolerable, it is just recently that it came back so strong. thats why I thought an increase might help some.

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Taking 112.5mg Venlafaxine, 2.5mg Olanzapine, and 0.25mg Lorazepam together at 10 a.m. may also be causing an unpleasant interaction several hours later.

should I space them apart? or drop the Olanzapine?

 

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

I see you added an extra dose of lorazepam at 16:00 yesterday.

Yes I did, I am sorry, it was just so unbearable the akathisia, I couldnt think straight anymore

[Altostrata]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

At what times of day is this most intense?

 

[Neon]

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

At what times of day is this most intense?

@Altostrata it was just all day long, I would say it calmed a bit around 4 o‘clock and the evening was a bit calmer

[Altostrata]

My guess is the symptoms you experience during the day are from the weird cocktail you've devised for yourself in the morning.

1 hour ago, Neon said:

10:00 take 112.5mg Venlafaxine, 2.5mg Olanzapine, 0.25mg Lorazepam

 

This would suggest we devise a new schedule for your drugs. However, since you keep changing your drugs, mostly adding drugs, making schedule changes may add instability.

 

How long have you been on your current drug schedule? A whole 2 days? And then there's the ad hoc lorazepam.

[Neon]

I have been on that schedule since 22nd August, so two weeks. apart of the ad hoc Lorazepam today.

 

For ten days I felt fine, only the past four days were horrific.

I have been on the 2.5 only three weeks, still you wouldnt suggest I drop it, simply shift it?

[Altostrata]

Makes sense to me, Neon, because it takes some time for a drug cocktail to ramp to steady-state. This is why we want you to stop making changes, so we can see your baseline symptom pattern.

 

As it appears you increased venlafaxine from 75mg to 112.5mg only August 22, the first thing I would do is reduce it back to 75mg, as I suspect you have given yourself drug-induced activation from too much venlafaxine, as you did on July 30, when you increased from 37.5mg to 75mg.

 

After this reduction, it will take about a week for a baseline symptom pattern. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Neon]

@Altostrata and the 2.5mg Olanzapine I keep?

[Altostrata]

Do you want to reduce the activation, or do you want to randomly shuffle your drugs around some more?

[Neon]

I dont understand why you need to be so snappy. 
I have made mistakes but I have had suicidal akathisia for months. I am doing the best I can to survive. Maybe others fare better and I applaud them but I am doing everything I can.

 

Also I dont understand why you think it comes all from the drugs when I have repeatedly told you that I have had the exact same symptoms before taking any.

 

You have build an amazing site that helps thousands of people and I applaud you for that. You offer your expertise and you do it all for free, I applaud you for that too. This is a truly amazing  and life-saving service you are providing.

Nevertheless I have spend all day to day busy with not killing myself and I try to find my way out of this hellish akathisia, that has immensely improved since I updosed only to worsen again, I dont understand at all what is happening to me anymore, I have accidentally gotten a benzo addiction, I try to find my way through the cocktail of drugs that was imposed on me when I was looking for help. I have a lot on my plate. 

I thank you for your advice, I really do even though I dont understand it.

So please forgive me for asking if I should drop this drug that is giving me hair loss among other side effects. A simple „no, keep taking it“ would have been enough.

[Altostrata]

Neon, every time I give a suggestion, you ask me if you should do something else. Please realize that, to understand what you might do, I spend a lot of time studying the now 7 pages of your topic. Please respect my time.

[Neon]

I respect your time and am very thankful for your input.

I am just confused, the aka improved so much initially with the 112.5, like very suddenly and I am so scared of that state, I dont want to go there permanently.

[Altostrata]

27 minutes ago, Neon said:

the aka improved so much initially with the 112.5, like very suddenly and I am so scared of that state, I dont want to go there permanently.

 

You also made other drug changes at the same time. You increased olanzapine. You were taking lorazepam intermittently.

[Neon]

but it was exactly an hour after I took it that the akathisia lifted, it was like magic. from one moment to the next... the Olanzapine I had taken by then for a week and it didnt make a difference at all. That is why I am hesitating to go down in dosage.

I hope it doesnt seem I dont value your input, I really do. Just I already down-dosed one time and it brought me back to akathisia-hell after doing really well.

I know it must be tedious to you that I ask for help and am then too scared to apply the help you provide. I am so sorry, I am in a state where thinking straight is quite problematic.

[rupa]

@Neon

1)Take tapering each drug at a time in the following way,mean while by taking food 3 times a day ,8 am,12 pm,6pm.Take termeric milk at 9 pm.

2)Stop for 7 days,start taking from the 8th day onwards, the MINUTE possible dose for four weeks to six weeks,then stop completely.

3)If you are into 3 drugs,you will be drug free from third month onwards,then onwards,just depend on taking nutritious food.

4)This way,the brain will DEFINITELY experience peace very soon.

 

Instead of sacrificing life for nothing,you set an example to the fellow sufferers that it's just simple common sense that the brain rewires at any dose of medicine,then why not at the MINUTE,to come out easy.

 

[Neon]

@rupa

I am so glad for your suggestions but I am way too scared to try that right now. I am in a pretty bad place as it is. Also cooking for myself is not easy for me now, my parents cook and it is not always very nutritious.

[rupa]

@Neon

Neon,but it's astonishing the way you are torturing yourself by your brain ,by updosing,low dosing as you wish.

Your brain needs relief and rest,it's worrysome ,when you write ,that your brain prompting you to give up.

Just release the brain  from the torture.

Instead of following bhasski,who stopped all the drugs suddenly,you be brave to follow my suggestion.

Just be logical.

Keep the brain at lowest dose possible by diluting the tablet in water and measuring the solution with a sirenge.

Give every day same amount,per se,0.5 mg.

Let the brain habituate to that dose,for 4 to 6 weeks.

You see how relief your brain and body will feel and you will come out from the chaos safe.

Once you get better,you start cooking for yourself.

Your natural body comes back.

You will start feeling every emotion like before medication.

Let us all know,how it feels to have first smile again.

Look at @bhasskihe is back to life,do you know ,how good he made, all of us feel soothing about his life.

(Recently ,his watsapp status shows ,how empathetic and harmonious he is feeling towards people around him,how great all those gifted emotions came back.)

Now,it's your turn.

In your case,you cannot do slow tapper.

You please follow this method and stop torturing the brain.

Get back to life safely.

This method proven on my own family member,he is sound and safe,without any sleep problems or any withdrawal effect.

You just realise the truth,as long as you keep your brain on higher dose,the torture will not stop.

Brain is wonderful organ.

You need to experience ,how wonderful ,with time and nutrition it heals to its prior state.

Do you remember,the creature ,from the movie predator,1987.The brain heals self like the creature,when wounded.

When you start giving low doses,brain will stop prompting self distruction.

With nutrition and low doses,you will be on the road to healing.

Then you will be able to think constructive.

You will work again.

You will empower yourself.

You will get your life partner.

You will be blessed with offspring.

Then you will cherish all this pain and transformation,only to value the life more than ever.

IF YOU FEAR OF INSOMNIA,YOU QUIT EVERY OTHER DRUG AS PER MY SUGGESTION,BY TAPPERING WITH MINUTE DOSE , EXCEPT

 5 MG OLANZAPINE.

LET THE BRAIN BE ON OLANZAPINE FOR FEW MONTHS UNTIL YOU WILL FEEL ,OK TO TAPER OLANZAPINE TOO.

SOFT RICE ,RAW ONION,BANANA,TURMERIC,MILK MUST TO GET NATURAL SLEEP WHILE TAPPERING OLANZAPINE.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by brassmonkey
Cleaned up language

[Altostrata]

@Neon, you had success with one of your random drug changes exactly once. How is your self-designed drug regimen working now?

[Neon]

@Altostratayou dont think the drug change will mess up my system even more? and you really think it was a coincidence that my aka was better an hour after taking the 112.5? wouldnt it be better to stabilize on it? one stabilizes also when kindling on a higher dosage, no? I think brassmonkey wrote somewhere the you always stabilize from an updose.

[Altostrata]

It seems to me that you want to do what you want to do. You do not need to have me agree to your plans. Do whatever you think is best. 

 

[Colonial]

On 9/5/2021 at 4:42 PM, Neon said:

Also I dont understand why you think it comes all from the drugs when I have repeatedly told you that I have had the exact same symptoms before taking any.

 

Hi Neon,

 

They were likely from all the drugs, legal or not, that you have been tampering excessively with since April, that is true, but you may be provoking them to remain by taking 3 drugs all at once in the morning.

 

 112.5mg Venlafaxine (10am)

 

This is an excessive dose, and your symptoms will likely remain with a dose this high along with the other 2 at the same time. I agree reducing it to 75mgs would be the first step to help to alleviate the ongoing activation you are provoking by the continual drug cocktail.

 

[Neon]

@Colonialthank you so much for dropping by and chiming in.

I know it must seem bizarre that I am so hesitant to follow altos advice when she is so knowledgable.

I believe that it came from Venlafaxine withdrawal and was probably ticked off or made worse by all my stupid drug changes. I am only so hesitant because when I was on 75mg I was actually suddenly symptom free. And when I reduced to 37.5 it became much worse again and I am still blaming myself for reducing. That is why I am acting so weirdly and hesitant. I dont want to make it worse by reducing.

But if you all think I should reduce my drug load in the morning I will try it and hope for the best. 🙂 

[Colonial]

11 hours ago, Neon said:

I am only so hesitant because when I was on 75mg I was actually suddenly symptom free. And when I reduced to 37.5 it became much worse again and I am still blaming myself for reducing.

 

The suggestion was to go back to the 75mg mark.

Either too low or too high a dose can be problematic.

 

Also, changes in symptoms after a drug change are sometimes more complex than just the last dose change you made.  

 

Feel better soon.

[rupa]

@Neon

If my mother suffering from the same as you are suffering,I would do what ever it takes to bring out her from the problems.

 

 

[Neon]

@rupa thank you so much for your many kind words, it is always refreshing to get a message from you, I hope I make it to Chennai one day. Thank you so much for your ongoing support in that mess that I created. It means a lot to me 💕

 

@Colonialand @Altostrata after much hesitation I decided to drop to 75mg, I also decided to drop the 2.5mg Olanzapine as I didnt notice any improvement from it and it made me very weak and tired during the day and I was still in the 4-week-window of non-dependence. Since my hair fall lessened and I feel stronger.

My sweet spot was 75mg Venlafaxine and 5mg Olanzapine. I really hope I can stabilize on that. Will keep you posted.

Thank you so much for your advice.. I know it took me some time to get there but I will follow it now. I know two drug changes at the same time are not ideal, the Olanzapine I actually reduced 5 days ago and dont notice any adverse effect as of now.

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, Neon said:

after much hesitation I decided to drop to 75mg, I also decided to drop the 2.5mg Olanzapine as I didnt notice any improvement from it

 

Please review the 7 pages of this topic and observe how many times we have urged you to change only one drug at a time.

[Colonial]

14 hours ago, Neon said:

the Olanzapine I actually reduced 5 days ago and dont notice any adverse effect as of now.

 

In the future, please be prompt in both updating your signature line with drug changes and report them right away in the thread.

 

You complain about staff members being "snappy", but you need to think if it's possible if you hold blame for how you perceive you are being treated. There were many more posts in between when you must have dropped this med and now when you just reported it.

 

You must be able to understand why a staff member may feel your abusing their time when they are taking their time to try to help you and your not even being honest with what drugs you are taking at what times, and then seem adamant in knowing why your problems are what they are. I know at least from my part, I was formulating replies based on the belief you were still taking all 3 drugs, and the Olan at 5mgs as per your signature.

 

You may also want to ask yourself if you believe someone was rude to you was not the result of you continuing to ask for help, ignore the advice given to you, not report drug changes when you make them and continually want to believe a particular line of events.

 

When other members feel their time is disrespected in these ways, it may affect the responses you receive, and if we find your not being upfront with drug changes as your their making them, you may find others being less likely to assist you with your questions in the future.

 

That is not because any one is mad but only because we can not give good advice without proper information, and when one has a repeat history of not following the advice given one has to decide if their is any longer any point in taking the time to try to help and give that advice.

 

Since your signature line was last update August 22nd  and it says you were still on 5mgs of Olanzapine, please update whenever your dropped it  to 2.5 to begin with, and then when you dropped it to 0.

 

On 9/10/2021 at 2:56 AM, Neon said:

But if you all think I should reduce my drug load in the morning I will try it and hope for the best.

 

Again, my suggestion was based on what I "thought" your current drug protocol was.

Hopefully dropping 2 drugs within a week will not be too problematic.

In any case, hopefully you will begin to stabilize in a few months time.

 

Good luck!

 

[Neon]

@Colonial @Altostrata you are absolutely right. I see that it is my fault and that I am wasting precious time of members. I can only apologize and say I am very confused and I am very bad at controlling my impulses to change drugs because I am in such a vulnerable state. It is not a great excuse because most people on here are in a very vulnerable state and manage to be upfront. I fluctuate between wanting help and listening to doctors. I can only say I am absolutely terrified of the akathisia returning because it nearly drove me to suicide and it impairs my thinking. I will do my best to better myself to not waste anyones time.

I did not quit the drugs at the same time but 5 days apart and was afraid to upset people on here because I didnt listen to advice.

I completely understand if the helpers are fed up with me and want to dedicate their time to people who are more upfront and listening.

I can only say I am very sorry. I didnt want to waste anyones time and I think I underestimated how much work and thought goes into giving me suggestions.

I thank you for that with all my heart, the time you dedicate and the work you do is tremendous. I will update my signature.