Itsnotme: Trying to survive too-fast Lexapro taper/severe W/D

[Itsnotme]

Symptoms of fear, anxiety, depression and intrusive thoughts continue all day and if I wake up at night, this starts again and I can't fall back asleep. Praying for this nightmare to end. 

[Crochet]

Hi Itsnotme,

 

I'm sorry that things are still so terrible, but it looks like there is some improvement, which is good.  I like your description of "organic" anxiety and fear.  That's exactly what it is, not coming from my thoughts.

 

I'm holding on to hope.  YesYes and mdwstrx reinstated and got back to baseline in 3 - 5 months.  It can happen.  Also, a Mad in America podcast with Dr. Shipko where he says 90% of his patients that reinstate get back to baseline in several weeks or months.

 

Hang in there.  It's hard, but we can do it.

 

Take care,

Crochet

[manymoretodays]

And woah Itsnotme, great job on pulling together 24 hours of Notes.

You are doing better than you think you are I think, in that cognitively, you pulled that off so well.

Could you continue with next posting a couple of days worth of the 24 hour notes.  Do real time, note the day at the top, and then just like what you did. 

It will give us, including you, a better idea of how symptoms occur in relationship to each of your current drugs.

 

And this will help, at the very least to see if 5 mg of Lexapro, for this reinstatement, is good.  If anything, it may be that we suggest that you lower it. 

You might be surprised that 5 mg of Lexapro, is not considered a small dose around here.  I think it's equivalent to about 10 mg or more of Celexa, it's cousin drug, and about 20 mg of Prozac.

So.....it may be too much for you.

But lets get a better picture from some real time Notes.

1 hour ago, Itsnotme said:

Symptoms of fear, anxiety, depression and intrusive thoughts continue all day and if I wake up at night, this starts again and I can't fall back asleep. Praying for this nightmare to end. 

 

It looked like you might have been able to feel a bit of relief in the later part of the day, which is pretty typical, while your nervous system attempts to recalibrate and stabilize a bit after your previous WD attempt(s).

And you are getting some sleep, which is a plus, obviously.

 

  I maintained on 5 mg Lexapro for a few years, before trying to come off it.  Which I did too quickly and also switched to a liquid preparation off it, without doing that even a little bit carefully.  So that taper ended in a bust for me, and a hospitalization, then 2 different drugs to finally get off of, much more judiciously.......which I did do, after I arrived here.

 

And so, best to work with what you've got now, have been on, AND avoid hospitalization too, even for respite........as unfortunately, most of the U.S. hospitals are not at all helpful with Withdrawal, or tapering, or anything besides continuing us on, with the medication merry go round, that most of us here, are wanting to get free of.

 

I mean I know it still feels brutal, so bear with me.

I am praying for your nightmare to end too!  And it will Itsnotme.  It just takes time.

So I'm still encouraging you to just HOLD tight right now.  Get some real time Notes, posted, just like how you did your first one, in a 24 hour segment, at least, at a time. 

I would not, if I were you, increase your Lexapro dose any further right now. 

 

Intrusive thoughts are tough, but I am so glad you can just name them, for what they are.  And then catch them too, for what they are......and get on with things, at least a little bit.  You are a Bear, bearing it all.......it stinks, but it WILL get better.  Your in a Wave, a tidal Wave.  Surf.  Ugh, easier said than done I know.

 

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

Most members do find these to be calming.  Just start with one or the other though at a low dose, that way you can keep tabs on what might be causing what.  I'd have to say that you might benefit from some Magnesium, spaced out through the day.  You can find most of the useful information in the first couple of posts there.  Just stick with a single ingredient type, without Calcium(they cancel each other out).  For me, I found Magnesium calming, but not to the point of feeling too tired to stay awake.  And really helpful initially for me to get and stay calm.

 

REDUCING CORTISOL, THE ANXIETY HORMONE
 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes*

 

Try and stay in today, and don't jump ahead too much.  You have made improvement!  And it may only be another week until you are gaining some comfort and coping okay with it all.

And do your best, with just another couple of days Notes.  I just want us all to get a clearer picture, for the reasons listed above.  Thanks.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Itsnotme]

Hi @Crochetthank you for telling me that about reinstating. I hope it happens for both of us sooner rather than later.  

[Itsnotme]

@manymoretodaysI will continue to hold at 5mg in the hopes that I will stabilize. And do my best to take those notes. It's very difficult in my current state. Thank you for caring.

[manymoretodays]

Inm,

How have you been getting the doses for your reinstatement?

How did you get 1.5 mg, and then 2 mg, and then 3 mg, and then onward and upward to the 5 mg dose that you are presently on?

Accuracy does pay off, and consistency, over time.

 

And are you still doing the CES now too?

Alpha-Stim, Fisher Wallace Sota Biotuner, PoNS, and similar "brain stimulation" devices

And then this post from Altostrata there too:

Neurostimulation for withdrawal?

and another topic on it too ^

 

It's just that right now, your poor brain is attempting to reach some homeostasis, and I expect is a bit overstimulated.  It does look like some have found some benefit with the devices for sleep, or calming, but we don't really have any evidence, as yet whether it is more helpful or harmful.

 

Do include any usage in your notes, if you can get some more done.

My biggest concern right now, is that you might be getting too, too much in the way of serotonin action now, or possibly a serotonin syndrome like reaction.  Which of course, would warrant backing down on your reinstatement dose. 

Notes will help a lot to see.

 

Okay, hoping you are in your leveling off period of the day now, and heading towards a nice restorative sleep tonight too.

 

You're going to get there Inm.  To that there that is easier.  Just hang in, and hang on.........we know it can be Wild in the Waves.  Keep bravely Surfing.  You can do this!  💜

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by manymoretodays
grammar

[Gardenlife]

@Itsnotme Since the magnesium seems to help with sleeping for You, have you thought about taking it all day? I’m no doctor but in my research I have found that for relief from mental health problems, taking a decent amount with every meal AND before bedtime, is what helps. When we are in a state of stress, our bodies lose magnesium through peeing. A magnesium deficiency can also cause anxiety. So maybe you have always been magnesium deficient. (Most people are) And withdrawing  has made you lose even more magnesium and now you are trying to function off of none? Maybe. If I were you, I would take magnesium with every meal and before bed. And see how you feel. Take one that is meant for relaxing. Again, I’m no doctor but Can’t hurt to try!

[Itsnotme]

Thank you for the suggestion. I will do that. Not sure I have the right magnesium though. I have magnesium citrate and glucanate now. 

[Itsnotme]

@manymoretodaysI used the liquid formula and a measuring syringe to get the 1.5, 2 and 3mg doses. Then went to the 5 mg pill. I've been using the CES device twice daily but it doesn't seem to do a thing, so I will probably give up on it now. I only got 4 hrs of sleep last night, woke up with anxiety and began to obsess and panic and could not go back to sleep. I feel so stuck and am so scared. I will do my notes this evening. 

[Itsnotme]

@manymoretodays  still very distressed but maybe tiny moments of relief? Please let me know what u think

2 am - woke up with anxiety and began to obsess and then panic, could not fall back asleep (got maybe 4 hrs)

7:30am - took 5mg escitalopram, DIM, 75mcg levothyroxine, 5mcg liothyronine, spirulina/exhausted, anxiety, panic, fear

8:30 am - cereal for breakfast

9:30am - took bupropion 150 xl and 250 magnesium

8:30 - 12:30, anxiety, panic...severe panic and distress during 11am work video meeting, waves of fear with obsessive thoughts through afternoon but slightly better than yesterday, maybe a little less intense or believable

12:30 - ate lunch, small dish of pasta, yogurt with fruit

12:30-5:30 - anxiety and panic slightly reduced but still pretty bad

5:30pm - walked for a half hour, anxiety still slightly reduced, some moments of relief from obsessions and severe anxiety where "reality" was closer, but also had waves of fear with obsessive thoughts re my husband. Did, however, remark to my husband that I feel there are brief moments where "it's" better somehow

6:30pm - ate dinner 

7:00pm - showered, got ready for bed

7:30pm - took 1000mg fish oil, 5000mg D3, 250 magnesium

7:30pm - anxiety typing this out...anxiety about going to sleep and waking up in a panic and not getting sleep, anxiety about having obsessions

8:00pm - going to sleep as I'm exhausted and can't see straight, praying for enough sleep

[Altostrata]

What is DIM?

 

In this last round, you've been taking 150mg Wellbutrin since when? How did you feel after you took Wellbutrin at 9:30 a.m. and before 11 a.m.?

 

Magnesium is best taken in small doses throughout the day.

[Itsnotme]

@AltostrataDIM is diindolylmethane, a supplement that a naturopath recommended I take as a cancer survivor. I've been taking the 150xl dose of Wellbutrin since spring or summer 2019, I believe. I've been very anxious and fearful in the mornings which starts as soon as I wake up and continues through the day, but the a.m. usually does seem worse than later in the day. I don't know if it is worse after taking Wellbutrin or not. I feel a tiny bit better after eating lunch and maybe after the Lexapro has gotten back into my system?

[Altostrata]

It could be that Wellbutrin is causing some of your symptoms. Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[getofflex]

@itsnotme, you are a real trooper.  I can see you have been going through pretty significant WD from psych drugs.  I applaud you for hanging in there, and sticking with it.  I see you are eating a health diet and walking most days.  The walking really helps to calm the CNS, and relieve stress, so good for you.  Lexapro is a buggerbear drug to get off of, but we can do it!  I feel so much better now than I felt a year ago, and way better than 2 years ago, when I joined this forum.  Here is what I learned: stability is key.  Time is what heals.  When I'm in a wave, I just hold.  That means not changing anything, unless suggested otherwise.  I, too, was on these drugs for decades.  How are you doing these days?  

Edited March 12, 2021 by getofflex

[Itsnotme]

@getofflexI'm not doing well and struggling to survive day by day. I've been suicidal due to the mental symptoms of severe anxiety, obsessions and panic. I am not a trooper in the sense that I restarted the med to try to gain my sanity back am praying for it to work again. Im happy for you that you are doing better though.

[getofflex]

When you say you are suicidal, do you mean you are actually planning to carry it out, or are you having suicidal thoughts?  Please hang in there.  Getting off these drugs is pretty tough.  Did you consider the question altostrata asked you about the Wellbutrin and are you tracking your meds and symptoms as requested?  

[brassmonkey]

Hi Itsnotme-- I'm so sorry to see that your are having such trouble right now. I know it's hard to believe, but things will get better. Getofflex asked me to drop in and see how your are doing, she mentioned suicidal thoughts. One of the most disturbing side effect/ WD symptom to have to deal with is suicidal ideation. The thoughts come out of nowhere, for no reason at all and can build and build until we think we are going crazy. When all along it's just the drugs playing games with our mind. I am trusting that this is what is happening to you and that you are not seriously considering following this course.

 

It sounds like you are having a lot of OCD thoughts, ruminations and self doubt. These are all very common when going through ADWD, but when you mix them with a history of such things they can be very hard to endure. They are, however, just thoughts that are being triggered by your mind trying to cope with presence of the drugs and the stress of the everyday world. As such, we actually have some control over them. From reading you posts I can see a pattern of Spiral Thinking in the way these thoughts are appearing. We have a very good article on dealing with this that I think you should read.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/13492-dealing-with-emotional-spirals/

 

It will explain a lot and offer some suggestions on dealing with Spiral Thinking and Ruminating Thoughts. I went through a period like this myself during my taper and these techniques really helped me.  They take some practice and concentration, but really work.

 

These drugs don't actually cure anything, but rather make us not care about what the problem is. Unfortunately, they make us not care about anything at all.  Which can cause some real problems with close relationships. The drugs can coverup and bury our true feelings quite deep and cause us to doubt relationships that are actually quite strong. Belief in what you know you have based on past experience, is more important than reacting to how you currently feel. Good and frequent communication goes a long way to helping the situation.

[Itsnotme]

@brassmonkeythank you for your concern but this is not the kind of OCD I'm experiencing. Im having repetitive "what if" type obsessions and severe panic over thoughts about my husband's appearance/attractiveness, inappropriate sexual fears, etc. And I had to restart the drug to even survive this far. The suicidal thoughts I've had lately, unfortunately, have not just been what if I kill myself but more contemplative as a way out of this torture. I have not tried and really don't want that to be the answer. I do know all of this started with the severe withdrawals from the drug. My brain became so unstable and has malfunctioned and I am trying desperately to get better. I've started ERP and am looking into Deep TMS which has shown success with OCD. But continuing to taper off the med now is off the table. I have to save my life, and if that means I need the drug now, then I have to accept that. Thank you so much for reaching out to help.

[brassmonkey]

Tapering off of these drugs is no walk in the park. Combine that with todays stressors and and ones own thoughts and life can be no fun for a while. We want to make sure all our members are safe and doing what they feel is right for their situation. If the drugs truly are helping, that is good.  I wish you all the best.

 

There is a lot of information on TMS through out the site, several members have experience with it. Try doing a site search and see what they have to say.

[Altostrata]

Hello, what do you mean by "reinstate the drug"? Which drug? What are you taking now, at what times of day and what dosages?

 

Withdrawal symptoms can be pretty awful, but they often start a cascade of fears and worry as described by brassmonkey. It's important you keep as calm as possible to not cause further upset to a stressed nervous system.

 

Strongly recommend you look at ways to calm yourself, these can help for withdrawal-induced symptoms and general life stresses. See

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals 

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

Coping with irritation, anger and rage

[Altostrata]

Hello, have not heard from you, what are your symptoms like now?

[Itsnotme]

Titled- Still alive and tapering for the 3rd time

 

Hello everyone who is on here. I hope and pray for you all to be well. I have not posted here for a long, long time. My HORRIFIC journey with tapering from SSRIs, and then antipsychotics, began in the late spring of 2019. It is now 2023, and I am on my 3rd attempt at tapering off of my meds (or at least getting to a very, very low dose). I was advised by my doctor, then another doctor, then another, then another, to taper off of my medications much too fast for me. No matter what I would tell them, they would push me to taper in big chunks only days or a week or not even 2 apart. Each time I crashed badly into a state of severe depression, uncontrollable OCD, anxiety, fear, dread, and a sense of impending doom, shaking, crying nonstop. So they would then give me more meds, higher doses of meds, then antipsychotics (which didn't help). Told me to take benzos. I could barely do anything, took short-term disability from work 3 times, couldn't and still can barely have sex or go out or do anything but shop for essentials like groceries. I have missed numerous events with my family and my aging parents. I have been suicidal more times than I can count, to the point of trying to come up with ideas that would be quick and not painful. And trying to figure out how to do it without making a mess. I am in a complete and utter state of fear, dread and a sick, sick feeling all day, every day, every minute from the drugs I am on and the tapering process still ... BUT ... I am slowly, slowly getting better. Why? Because I finally stopped listening to the doctors or letting them persuade me to do what I didn't want to do. I refused to go to the hospital upon suggestion because I knew they'd just pump more drugs into me just like they did the one time I went to the psych ward. I have had to lie to them, pretend I am doing what they say. My current psychiatrist is the only one so far that has tolerated my decisions and not "fired" me as a patient. One of them did. He gave up and told me to find someone else. He refused to have an open mind. My current doc at least did one thing: he finally ordered a genetic test for me, which showed that I have altered genes that put me at risk of being overdosed because I absorb too much of the meds and they stay in my system much longer than typical, whatever that is. I also have other alterations that make me more vulnerable to medications. I am overdrugged and the process of getting off has been life threatening and horrifically painful to say the least, but each time I reduce and get through weeks of w/d symptoms, I know I am a tiny bit better. My sense of being in reality is inching back each time, the violent shaking is going down each time, the fear is not as deep and paralyzing, etc. So, I am still tapering and still alive after going on 4 years. If I didn't have a husband who loves me and finally realized I was right and the doctors weren't and didn't put me in the hospital when everyone else wanted me to, I wouldn't be here. But there's hope. I am not giving up. I hope you don't either. Listen to yourself, what you feel, what you know is true; it's the only way to get out of this absolute hell on earth.   

Edited January 22, 2023 by manymoretodays
merged and added title

[manymoretodays]

Hi there Its not me and welcome back, @Itsnotme

This is your topic, your Introduction, and where you should post, for updates around your case, or questions.  Thanks.  So you will see your most recent post above now.

 

What are you presently on as far as medications/drugs go?

 

On 1/20/2023 at 4:38 PM, Itsnotme said:

My current doc at least did one thing: he finally ordered a genetic test for me, which showed that I have altered genes that put me at risk of being overdosed because I absorb too much of the meds and they stay in my system much longer than typical, whatever that is. I also have other alterations that make me more vulnerable to medications. I

 

We do have a topic on this, or genetic tests, and yes they do show how one metabolizes drugs apparently.  I think they are more being used to help doctors decide what drugs to put someone on, rather than how to get someone off medications.  And yes, it could explain why you had an adverse effect to a particular medication too.

Genetic testing: "Personalized medicine", liver enzymes, genotypes, GeneSightRx, Genomind, etc

 

You might consider that you also may be suffering from some protracted WD(withdrawal) as well.  If you have been on and off, or tapered too quickly, etc.

It sure sounds like it has been a struggle for you and I'm so sorry.  Have you ever read Robert Whitaker's book- Anatomy of an Epidemic?  You could also google the author, or the book.  It's one of the things that convinced me that I could no longer, in good conscience, go with the medical model for so called mental illness anymore.  I just kept getting worse.  It was crazy.

 

I am so glad you are not giving up Itsnotme.

And thank you for updating here.

What or how can we help you with now?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt