Phoenixmama: cold turkey after 3 weeks on Celexa

[Paxil3days]

@Phoenixmama no it makes total sense. I was telling family members I don’t want to jinx it, Bc it feels like moment I say I am good , the wave begins to crawl in, but I know that to not be true , I was advised to write down symptoms that have minimized or lessened but to keep in mind that waves will come back feeling more severe than before . It’s the stabilization of our CNS , I don believe it to possible because I have seen symptoms lessen even when the waves feels stronger than before. Hang in there we will heal

[Phoenixmama]

I have a new weird symptom 🥴 it’s like I’m fine emotionally but I feel like I’m so impatient And nothing can get done fast enough and I’m so irritated by everything and I can’t concentrate on anything or pay attention to anything ... any one have this ? 

[Phoenixmama]

@Rosetta hi , I’m curious to what is kindling ? I’ve tried using the search bar but I still don’t know what it is 

[Rosetta]

Kindling happens when your nervous system is too fragile to handle a new drug or substance.  The degree of dysautonomia increases after the adverse reaction to the drug.  A person who has no akathisia might develop akathisia.  A person who has akathisia will very likely see an increase in the degree of akathisia.  A person might develop dystonia or dyskinesia.  I don’t know what causes those problems in nature or whether the mechanism is different for people who develop those disorders after quitting ADs or benzos.
 

The higher the dose of the new drug or substance, the stronger the reaction.  That is why the starting dose of a reinstatement should very small.  If there is a reaction, it will be less severe.  Kindling can happen with other substances that affect the nervous system, too.  
 

Some people have allergic reactions to food or pollen.  I’m unclear about how kindling and allergies interact.  Whether allergic reactions and adverse reactions are the same in the way that they affect the degree of dysautonomia, I don’t know.  I suspect it varies a lot just as the reaction to a drug varies depending on the drug.  Some ADs have an anti-histamine effect.  So, people develop a lot of allergies after quitting ADs as the nervous system is suddenly reacting to things.  This does not mean that the person has that allergy for life or would have had that allergy if she had not take ADs.  My allergies are fading just as all the other symptoms of PAWS are fading.
 

Alcohol is a drug.  Epinephrine is a drug used by the dentist to prolong the effect of the numbing substance injected into the gums.  I can’t have epinephrine now.  I can’t have alcohol.  It’s hard to figure out what a small dose of alcohol might be.  It affects the same receptors that benzos affect.  For that reason, it will be likely to cause an adverse reaction in a person who would react poorly to benzos.  People in AD withdrawal often react poorly to certain amounts of benzos even if they never took benzos before.  I believe I was.  I think I was kindled by benzos thus I “needed” more benzos to counteract the anxiety caused by the kindling.  What a mistake.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Phoenixmama]

@Rosettahi I know not feeling to well but I have a question , this past weekend and today I’ve had a feeling of jitteriness and irritation , it’s like everything everyone is doing or talking about is annoying and I feel on edge , I’m very lazy and when I do do something it’s in a hurry and I can feel my nervousness , it scares me because I am not a mean or snappy person normally , do you know this feeling ? It’s like nothing I ever felt in the past 14 weeks withdraw... and I love my little girl so much I’m trying my hardest to be as normal as I can , I’m scared please help 

[getofflex]

When I feel jittery, a brisk walk outside usually does the trick. If you are able, walking burns off adrenaline and cortisol, and is calming. If you little girl is small you could pull her along in a wagon or stroller.  Otherwise, she could walk, too, or ride a bike alongside.  For irritability, I would just pray a lot and ask God to help me not to act it out.  When I'm angry, journaling about why I'm angry or who I'm angry at helps a lot.  

[Rosetta]

This has been an enormous problem for me.   I have been anxious, irritable and angry for the last 5 years of my daughter’s life.  It has had an impact on her.  It’s probably the worst thing about WD and having small child.  The guilt I feel is out of this world.  
 

I do not know what to tell you, but I can say that I wasn’t very successful keeping it from affecting my daughter, my relationship with her and my relationship with my husband.  I tried to counteract the problem by telling her I loved her, SHOWING her I loved her in as many different ways as possible, and apologizing to her when I had been irritable.  
 

This I know from experience: Do not expect her to care for her own stuff, or do chores, or clean her room or make her bed.  It’s not going to happen and you are going to feel angry too often.  Teaching a child to take care of stuff can be a years long project from 3-18 or it can be a years long project from 10-18.  It does not matter under your circumstances.  She is not going to learn it when you are angry, and dealing with neuro-emotions.  She will simply shut down and avoid you and think that everyone who is a bit grumpy is very angry at her personally.  She will develop anxiety, avoidance coping mechanisms, become a procrastinator, and Yet she will not learn to take care of anything.  How I am going to correct the damage I have done while in WD, I do not know.  I only know how I could have avoided it.  Maybe I would have created other problems, but either way, they have to be fixed now with helping her learn new coping mechanisms.

 

I may have mentioned to you that simplifying your life and your daughter’s life to reduce stress is very important.  I tried to do that.  Even so, there were so many things I could not simplify.  So, do so when you can.  
 

For instance, I bought her plain, white socks and navy blue socks from Land’s End.  Nothing else.  No random socks to find.  In fact, I bought almost all of her clothes from Land’s End online.  No clothes shopping, trying things on, etc.  I bought a lot of navy, black, purple or dark green clothes to reduce worries about treating stains.  Land’s End has many navy and dark green sweaters, sweatshirts, t-shirts, polos, etc because it provides school uniforms.  I would put those with other clothes from the non-uniform section so that she didn’t look like she was wearing a uniform — jeans, skorts and leggings. There are purple, dark purple, and dark pink clothes in that section.
 

I regret throwing big birthday parties.  They stressed me out a lot.  She would have been just as happy with 3 little friends as with every friend invited.  I think that the negative memories she has from the time leading up to the big party was not worth it at all.  I know my negative memories were not worth it.  If I were feeling quite bad, making a birthday a time to do something big like taking one friend to the zoo or an amusement park and getting ice cream would have been better than any party at all.
 

Give up on teaching your child to be self sufficient right now.  All the chores and making the bed and earning her allowance — enforcing all of that is extra stress for people in withdrawal.  You cannot do all of that at this time.  Ignore your family’s criticisms.  Asking a child to do something for the 15th time is another way to make you feel irritable and angry and out of control.  Brushing her teeth is absolutely non- negotiatable.  Saying please and thank you are required.  Pretty much everything else — trying to enforce rules on those things — is just going to be an opportunity for you to get upset and frustrated and lose your temper.  
 

Kids can bathe 3 times a week and do just fine as long as you change their clothes once or twice every day.  Braid her hair and keep it braided or cut it short.  (Cut it short if at all possible.  I wish I had - oh, how I wish I had.  Give her some giant toy in exchange for her hair.  Save it in a zip lock forever.  Whatever you have to do, but don’t try to de-tangle her hair in your condition.)  I could not convince my daughter to give up her hair.  So, I braid it, but when I’m in wave, it turns into a rat’s nest.  It was literally torture to brush it out for her when I had akathisia.  Every sound from her increased the level of alertness in my body and brain and by the time I was done I had to retreat for hours and hours, unable to do anything at all.
 

Set out her clothes for her, keep track of her shoes for her, keep track of her backpack and homework, etc.  Do not try to teach her to be responsible right now (unless she is naturally that kind of kid and does it on her own.) Buy a lot of extra jackets and accept that she will not have any one of them for more than about 3 weeks, if that.  Buy extra shoes, too.  They will disappear.  Let it go.  Have two or three on hand at a time.  Extra lunch boxes.  You may need about 3 or 4 at a time.  You may lose one per week!  Let it go.  Taking the risk that you are going to yell at her for these things is just not worth it.  

You are not a normal mom who can discipline your child in a normal tone of voice.  Accept that.  When it comes to material stuff put away everything that is precious to you, buy stuff you don’t care about and budget to buy more stuff when it’s lost.  The fewer reasons you have to criticize her or correct her or discipline her the better.
 

When you get over this horrible experience, there will be plenty of time to teacher her to do all of that and her maturity level will be higher.  Years of getting angry and losing your temper because she lost her shoes again is just NOT worth it.  That is far more damaging than having her be behind in the self sufficiency department.  

[Phoenixmama]

I would like some help from anyone, I'm at a point where i don't know if I'm having windows anymore I haven't felt like my self in a long time , i used to have moments where i did  , now its just like I'm not having super high bad emotions at a moment but i still feel down and , then there is the high emotions where i can feel its a wave , i had a symptom return yesterday which was nausea and dizziness and flu like symptoms haven't had that in a while... 

i just want to know if there's a point where the windows are are just no symptoms but a you still don't feel good and  you are unmotivated.... i miss the windows i use to get a couple weeks ago at least i had something to look forward to... anyone please help!!! thank you 

[Hanna72]

Hi @Phoenixmama

Don't get discouraged, I know this is hard and frustrating process, and can feel at times extremely slow. Unfortunately there is no one answer to how the wave and window pattern will be, its very individual. 

17 minutes ago, Phoenixmama said:

i don't know if I'm having windows anymore I

You will have windows, when...nobody can predict. For me personally if I am in a window, its not that I feel being on a cloud nine, but rather having control of my emotions and with physical symptoms at minimum. 

 

21 minutes ago, Phoenixmama said:

I'm not having super high bad emotions at a moment

This is very good. Being down is also nothing to worry about. I do understand were you are coming from, having myself been scanning my emotion constantly, to the point of over analyzing everything. Having all kinds of emotions is what it is to be a human being. We all go through it, even people not in withdrawals.

 

23 minutes ago, Phoenixmama said:

nausea and dizziness and flu like symptoms

This is a very common withdrawal symptom. It will fade and then pass.

 

If I were you I would try to focus on anything else rather then this. Distraction can be very helpful, at least it is for me.

You were a very short time on this drug, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you will fully recover, have a bright happy window and enjoying life with everything it brings your way before you know it.

 

Have faith in your body that is doing everything it can to help you out here, it really comes down to patience and time.

Hang in there.

 

[Phoenixmama]

thank you @Hanna72 i was beginning to think i was back to my old symptoms before i took celexa because i haven't felt that cloud nine window in a while... i am very great full for your reply... i will try my best to distract myself, i was doing all that but some how feel off and got lost 

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, Phoenixmama said:

i just want to know if there's a point where the windows are are just no symptoms but a you still don't feel good and  you are unmotivated.

I have been tapering off Lexapro for coming up on 4 years.  I have days where I have no glaring symptoms, but I still feel somewhat tired and mild DP/DR.  I'm very grateful for these days, because they are so much better than the intense discomfort I had in the early stages, when I was tapering too fast, before I found this forum.  One of my coping skills is optimism, and when I compare where I cam today with where I was years ago, it's so much better.  I have faith that it will get better still.  this is a very gradual, non linear process that can take many of us years to recover from.  I have very few days where I feel euphoric, and that is OK.  

Edited June 3, 2021 by getofflex

[Phoenixmama]

Thank you.... @getofflexfor your reply 

[Paxil3days]

2 hours ago, Phoenixmama said:

I would like some help from anyone, I'm at a point where i don't know if I'm having windows anymore I haven't felt like my self in a long time , i used to have moments where i did  , now its just like I'm not having super high bad emotions at a moment but i still feel down and , then there is the high emotions where i can feel its a wave , i had a symptom return yesterday which was nausea and dizziness and flu like symptoms haven't had that in a while... 

i just want to know if there's a point where the windows are are just no symptoms but a you still don't feel good and  you are unmotivated.... i miss the windows i use to get a couple weeks ago at least i had something to look forward to... anyone please help!!! thank you 

Hey @Phoenixmama the dizziness returned for me too, ugh like I was so happy it was gone, then out of no where it came back, although less severe but definitely noticeable and of course with dizziness comes light nausea . Hang in there I am on the same boat as you . 

[Phoenixmama]

Thank you @paxil3days I am in a wave today feeeewww can hardly drive feel like I’m losing it... I just noticed how much thoughts I’ve been having , I’m going to start meditating we’ll try 

[Paxil3days]

Just now, Phoenixmama said:

Thank you @paxil3days I am in a wave today feeeewww can hardly drive feel like I’m losing it... I just noticed how much thoughts I’ve been having , I’m going to start meditating we’ll try 

I hate waves and hate these ADs . Please know that we are in it on this together. Just like you felt it go away, means it will go away again, it’s not permanent. 

[Phoenixmama]

You are so positive, I try to be , thank you for your positivity @Paxil3days

[Phoenixmama]

Wow my wave went from 6 to 10 in 3 hours , I feel so messed up , my body from head to toe feels weird , I’m scared and feel like I’m losing mind , I’m so mad at myself for taking that pill... I know this is my brain healing...  but it feels like I’m just going to lose it ... I took a walk and just felt to lost , so I came home and laid down , I’m laying under my weight blanket with my dog and 4 year old she’s on her iPad and I’m pretending to have a tummy ache and that’s why mommy is crying.... lord please lift this as it is to heavy for me to bare 🙏🏼
mom at a low point as you guys can see 

[Rhiannon]

Oh honey hang in there. You are doing so well. Just reading over your thread I can see how far you've come. Those wave days you feel like you're back at square one, but you're not, you're healing and you are going to feel better.

 

I know it's so hard to not be able to be the mom you want to be but it sounds like you are doing so well and loving your little girl.

 

My daughters had to see me suicidal and in and out of withdrawal and such a mess for many many years in their childhood, but they always knew that I loved them. They have some issues now but nothing too bad, they are delightful women married to good men doing work they believe in, and I have a granddaughter the age of your baby! So just do your best, and like Rosetta said, don't sweat the small stuff, do whatever makes it easy for you. Hugs to you both.

[Phoenixmama]

@Rhiannon thank you so much as you can tell I’m in the pits of hell today and your reply means the world to me and my baby girl. 

[Phoenixmama]

Is there a muscle rub that I can use ? Or Tylenol ? Another new symptom , my legs are starting to ache 🤒 

[Phoenixmama]

ok after a horrific day yesterday i mean felt like the worse i ever had in withdraw, i want to say that today when i woke up i felt kinda iffy almost called into work but i didn't i sat and read an sa members positive update and as i was reading it i felt joy fill my body and mind , got up and got me and my baby girl ready and took off for work and daycare.... i noticed the clearness in my feelings the moment i started brushing my teeth but didnt get excited , i joked and was patient with my little girl while getting her ready ,i was calm ,❤️ i was me the fun mommy , the strong mommy and the totally present mommy.... so we got on and i found my self enjoying the drive to work instead of the dread and the constent sadness that burrows it self inside me every single morning.... i even stopped at the store to pick up some strawberries and yogurt with no anxiety , i was calm i was happy i was me ❤️... i believe again in windows.... and i am grateful so grateful that i'm starting to cry from the joy i feel..... great full for this WINDOW , that is a glimpse of what is waiting for me on the other side of this withdraw.......

[Phoenixmama]

well that was short lived , here comes the ear pulling and brain getting bigger and bigger feelings 

 

[Phoenixmama]

does anyone have windows and waves hours apart???? 

[Phoenixmama]

Is burning palms a wd symptom ??????

[Rosetta]

Yep and yep.  Crazy isn’t it?

[Phoenixmama]

@roestta any advice on it I’d I’m sure I’m getting one 😫😫😫😫

[Rosetta]

Well, you can use ice packs or Icy Hot to try to counteract the burning.  I have heard of people doing that.  Be careful to keep your hands away from your eyes if you use Icy Hot, of course.  I didn’t have that symptom, but I see people talk about it frequently here in SA.  Sorry, I don’t know of a way to fix it, but it’s normal for WD.  Nothing terrible is going happen.

[Phoenixmama]

@rosetta I’m sorry I miss spelled stuff I meant to say UTI. I think I’m getting one , I’m scared of taking antibiotics 

[Rosetta]

Oh.  Cranberry juice with no sugar, and drink a lot — a lot — of water.  You can buy the cranberry juice ingredient in capsules at the health food store, but I never do.  You don’t need antibiotics unless you get a kidney infection, in my opinion.  If you get one of those that is something you do not want to get out of hand.  If you drink a lot of water all day long for a few days you should be able to fix a simple UTI without ABs.

[Phoenixmama]

Thank you , I’m going to do this I’m thankful for your advice 

[Phoenixmama]

@rosetta So just a cranberry juice like from Whole Foods 

[Rosetta]

Yes.  Avoid cranberry cocktail or any thing with added sugar and other juices.  You should limit your sugar intake, too, although if you eat a lot of it, simply avoid it around the time you drink the cranberry juice.  Sugar is addictive, and cutting it out suddenly is not a good idea, but it does help UTIs to happen.  
 

Doctors will tell you that cranberry juice does nothing for UTIs.  I doubt you will find a study about it, but it seems to work for me.  
 

Drinking the water all day is very important.  Have full glass (8-16 ounces) after every time you urinate.

[Phoenixmama]

I'm sitting here at my desk drowning in sad feelings reading success stories , members describe waves as getting milder along the way , I'm wondering if this goes for members that had an adverse reaction to the ssri's... my windows and waves are so weird and all over the place... i feel so lost in this... any help will be appreciated 

[Rosetta]

Yes, adverse reactions have windows and waves patterns of recovery, too.  Everyone with an adverse reaction wonders why a d how they could be reacting the same way as a long term patient after a CT.  They wonder if they will heal the same way or if they can heal.  Yes, you will.  The dysautonomia caused by the adverse reaction is more or less the same as that caused by a CT or a reduction in dose that is too large.  The recovery is very similar or the same.

 

When you are first injured, the chaos in your system is pretty, well . . . Chaotic.  Then the recovery is chaotic at first.  It will feel more regular someday, but there will be oddball waves here and there that are harder or softer than the usual.  The overall progression is toward a more smooth operation of the whole system.

 

First, the person experiencing the phenomenon cannot see what is happening clearly.  Second, the waves get milder over time so slowly that it is not perceptible except as seen in journals.  Two or three months later, one can perceive the improvement.  At the time the wave is happening, it feels the same as the last wave (unless, randomly, it is a particularly mild or harsh wave for that person).  Third, we do get waves that are worse than the last. My theory is that there has been so much repair done in a period of time that the body can’t slow the manufacture of neurotransmitters fast enough or vice versa.  
 

During the entire recovery period, the brain is not doing a good job of regulating the production and dissemination of the transmitters.  That is what dysregulation is.  There is too much or too little or it’s not in the right place at the right time.  Maybe the right transmitter is going to the wrong place.  No one really knows, but you will get closer to the normal operation as times goes on.  Even normal people have blips and fluctuations in how well their systems function.  Women have greater disruption of their systems, generally, than men because of the monthly cycle belong more pronounced.

 

I’m sorry you are feeling so sad.  Hang in there.

 

Rosetta

[Totallylost]

I seem to be in a similar state, been 6 months now I am better than I was, not as nauseous or sick but so many aches and pains in shoulders and hips and legs, it has to pass hang in there

[Phoenixmama]

@Rosetta thank it makes sense 

 

 

and this gives me hope ⬇️

 

First, the person experiencing the phenomenon cannot see what is happening clearly.  Second, the waves get milder over time so slowly that it is not perceptible except as seen in journals.  Two or three months later, one can perceive the improvement.  At the time the wave is happening, it feels the same as the last wave (unless, randomly, it is a particularly mild or harsh wave for that person).  Third, we do get waves that are worse than the last. My theory is that there has been so much repair done in a period of time that the body can’t slow the manufacture of neurotransmitters fast enough or vice versa.