KittenLePurr: Tapering Celexa to End a Long, Sordid History with Toxicants (Especially Psych Meds)

July 2, 2021

On 6/25/2021 at 6:48 PM, Mia1 said:

@KittenLePurr @GreatfulI have been doing this body scan meditation nightly for healing, I find it so helpful so wanted to share with you guys.

This was great! Very relaxing ❤️ Thank you

July 2, 2021

On 6/29/2021 at 7:09 PM, Greatful said:

@KittenLePurr Hi, how was your weekend? I am sorry it sounds like you had a tuff day.🙃 I hope you are feeling a better now.

Meditating is a good thing. I have been having a hard time relaxing the mind lately. I just keep telling myself keep doing it everyday if I can't relax the mind at least I am resting.. I do feel tired sometimes after. Is there a right way or a wrong way?

Sending you warm 🤗 hugs

Hey, sorry for the delayed response--and I'm realizing I can stop beating myself up for that now because that's just a thought/story.

It was ok. I mean, it was fun; my guy and I spent Saturday at the beach again and we're gonna do the same this Saturday. I'm so grateful to be doing something I love so often! And I'm also having trouble not self-sabotaging a bit. He likes to have a few beers at the beach and I keep saying I'm not going to partake but then I do. Which isn't the end of the world--I had 2 beers last weekend--but my body goes through a noticeable recovery process even if I have a tiny bit, even when I'm not withdrawing at all.

So I've been kinda depressed all week. And then I had a call with a potential client who wanted to hire me for my freelance writing services but they essentially wanted me to do a ton of writing without paying me but giving me a free membership to their online programs and I got more depressed. Feeling like, "Well, no one values my work then, and I don't get to have anything I want" which I know is a story. But I'm kinda stuck in it. It's my whole "I'm always left behind," martyrdom story... Working on it, slowly but surely.

Thanks for asking me and for letting me vent. I'm struggling but I also know I'm ok. I'm thinking I about cutting my Celexa again by a smaller amount next week, maybe 5% or less, since I'm not starting to work right away as far as I know. Or should I wait until I'm not feeling so low/depressed/stuck? I feel like there's never a "good" time to withdraw but maybe it's better to wait until I'm in a more solid, optimistic place? But I also want to keep making progress.

July 2, 2021

On 6/25/2021 at 4:03 PM, Greatful said:

@KittenLePurr @Mia1 Have either one of you read "What is happening in your brain" If not it is in the symptoms and self care

It really made me feel better to read how your brain is trying to heal....Anyway go look if you haven't read it yet.

I have read through a few of the thread from symptoms and care. That is were I first felt relief that feeling unexplained fear was something that can happen with wd, other peoples crazy ocd symptoms. It's like wd make ocd worse in sometimes odd ways, Have either of you read through some of those threads?

Can't remember if I responded to this...it rings a bell! Thank you, I'll go back and look.

On 6/29/2021 at 7:09 PM, Greatful said:

@KittenLePurr Hi, how was your weekend? I am sorry it sounds like you had a tuff day.🙃 I hope you are feeling a better now.

Meditating is a good thing. I have been having a hard time relaxing the mind lately. I just keep telling myself keep doing it everyday if I can't relax the mind at least I am resting.. I do feel tired sometimes after. Is there a right way or a wrong way?

Sending you warm 🤗 hugs

BTW I don't think there's a wrong way to meditate. I've struggled with that, too, like "Am I even doing this right?? What do I do now? Is it working??" I can really go in circles and if I can't relax my mind it feels like nothing (good) is happening. But someone told me a long time ago that meditation isn't actually about relaxing or clearing the mind; it's about observing whatever is going on and watching your thoughts when they come up. That it's actually about learning to pay attention, witness without attachment and be fully aware, not about getting still or calm or totally clear-headed. So when thoughts/feelings arise, note them like we've talked about without attaching meaning or "Damn it, I can't clear my mind" (or any number of things I've said/thought/felt when trying to clear my mind, ha.)

Feeling tired after isn't abnormal. That means it's relaxing you in some way. So I think that's good. And you're still practicing awareness, which is huge and opens us up to acceptance and transformation. ❤️ Keep doing it. I'm going to, too.

July 2, 2021

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

It was ok. I mean, it was fun; my guy and I spent Saturday at the beach again and we're gonna do the same this Saturday. I'm so grateful to be doing something I love so often! And I'm also having trouble not self-sabotaging a bit. He likes to have a few beers at the beach and I keep saying I'm not going to partake but then I do. Which isn't the end of the world--I had 2 beers last weekend--but my body goes through a noticeable recovery process even if I have a tiny bit, even when I'm not withdrawing at all.

I’m so happy you’re getting to the beach and having fun, sounds so peaceful and relaxing. Be careful drinking, it’s not recommended while withdrawing medication and it can/has caused people to go into waves and make their recovery last longer. And it sounds like you are sensitive to begin with, listen to what your body is telling you. No judgement, I love your honesty ❤️

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

Feeling like, "Well, no one values my work then, and I don't get to have anything I want" which I know is a story. But I'm kinda stuck in it. It's my whole "I'm always left behind," martyrdom story... Working on it, slowly but surely.

I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. You’ve had a lot of changes in your life recently and combine that with w/d and I’m sure it’s bringing up a lot of emotions. I just want to remind you that you’re doing an amazing job and you are incredibly valuable to everyone you meet, don’t forget that!!

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

Thanks for asking me and for letting me vent. I'm struggling but I also know I'm ok. I'm thinking I about cutting my Celexa again by a smaller amount next week, maybe 5% or less, since I'm not starting to work right away as far as I know. Or should I wait until I'm not feeling so low/depressed/stuck? I feel like there's never a "good" time to withdraw but maybe it's better to wait until I'm in a more solid, optimistic place? But I also want to keep making progress.

We’re here for you KLP, vent anytime you need to. My husband was talking to a friend a while back and they were dealing with a lot of heavy emotional issues. My husband told him something I want to share with you and @Greatful He said maybe the obstacles on your path are your path. So I think it’s true for all of us and if we shift our perception we can see that things are never as bad as our minds would like us to believe and that in fact the things we thought were the most difficult and painful to endure can be our greatest gifts.

Here’s to an amazing 4th and freedom from our minds 🎉

July 2, 2021

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

I'm thinking I about cutting my Celexa again by a smaller amount next week, maybe 5% or less, since I'm not starting to work right away as far as I know. Or should I wait until I'm not feeling so low/depressed/stuck? I feel like there's never a "good" time to withdraw but maybe it's better to wait until I'm in a more solid, optimistic place? But I also want to keep making progress.

I would tag Gridley and ask him what he thinks about this.

July 2, 2021

On 6/30/2021 at 7:01 AM, Mia1 said:

That’s fantastic, are you in a place of stillness observing what’s happening? As I go deeper in W/D I have been going deeper into acceptance and have really started to contemplate and do work on experiencing all my feelings/emotions and physical sensations as neutral. I do a lot of self inquiry with thoughts regarding this because we’re so programmed to think certain emotions/feelings are bad and that we can’t be happy if we feel a certain way. It’s remarkable how we can transcend quite literally anything.

How did you like the body scan? I love that there’s the healing component to it, I really believe we all have the capacity to self heal, it’s been helping me tremendously.

On the topic of self-inquiry, have you heard of Byron Katie? Her inquiry process, called The Work, is pretty fantastic...I keep meaning to get back/more into it. I read a couple of her books last year and was blown away by how quickly I could come to a place of peace with how I felt about my relationship. The relationship is like 9 thousand times better now, partly due to that but i fell out of practice with questioning my thoughts in that way. Lots of YouTube videos with her guiding people through the process.

I'm doing what you said and trying to experience my emotions neutrally today, without latching onto the victim stories that spiral through my head and make me feel completely hopeless and dejected. It's helping. Going to do some journaling and meditation in a bit to further dismantle some of it. ❤️

July 2, 2021

1 hour ago, Mia1 said:

I’m so happy you’re getting to the beach and having fun, sounds so peaceful and relaxing. Be careful drinking, it’s not recommended while withdrawing medication and it can/has caused people to go into waves and make their recovery last longer. And it sounds like you are sensitive to begin with, listen to what your body is telling you. No judgement, I love your honesty ❤️

I know--I think for sensitives and people in withdrawal, alcohol is like shooting yourself in the foot! Especially certain kinds like beer and those hard seltzers made from cane sugar🤮 I'm really going to try and avoid it this weekend.

1 hour ago, Mia1 said:

I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. You’ve had a lot of changes in your life recently and combine that with w/d and I’m sure it’s bringing up a lot of emotions. I just want to remind you that you’re doing an amazing job and you are incredibly valuable to everyone you meet, don’t forget that!!

Thank you for this ❤️ I do forget. These old patterns are very insistent about everything I do not being good enough and I often forget that I don't have to believe them.

1 hour ago, Mia1 said:

We’re here for you KLP, vent anytime you need to. My husband was talking to a friend a while back and they were dealing with a lot of heavy emotional issues. My husband told him something I want to share with you and @Greatful He said maybe the obstacles on your path are your path. So I think it’s true for all of us and if we shift our perception we can see that things are never as bad as our minds would like us to believe and that in fact the things we thought were the most difficult and painful to endure can be our greatest gifts.

Here’s to an amazing 4th and freedom from our minds 🎉

I LOVE THIS. The obstacle in our path are our path. I've been told that our "problems" are literally why we incarnated here on this earth, in order to heal them...that we each chose to come here for this purpose. And walking through the fire does always lead to the best and brightest things, alchemizing pain into gold/lessons/joy. I just get so stuck and forget to look at everything through that lens, the lens of healing and "how is this happening for me." Thank you. To freedom from our minds!💞💥🥳💃

July 2, 2021

Hey @Gridley, I'm hoping to get your input. I paused my Celexa taper a month ago to stabilize and handle some big life changes, and I'm doing ok albeit kind of low mood-wise the past week or so. I don't feel sick or withdrawal-y per se, just kind of sad and fatigued and stuck in old programs. Do you think it's important to wait until I'm feeling more optimistic to do another dose decrease? I was thinking of cutting it by 5% or smaller to gently keep moving in the right direction. I feel like the depressed feelings I'm having are more situational than withdrawal-related but they're most likely exacerbated/bigger due to the med changes. I did have to stabilize on a methadone change about 3 weeks ago but that seems to be pretty much adjusted. Thanks

July 2, 2021

23 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

I was thinking of cutting it by 5% or smaller to gently keep moving in the right direction.

I would hold another month to play it safe. You seem pretty stabilized regarding the Celexa, but the methadone dose change 3 weeks ago gives me pause and leads me to recommend holding. It can't hurt and definitely may help.

July 2, 2021

18 minutes ago, Gridley said:

I would hold another month to play it safe. You seem pretty stabilized regarding the Celexa, but the methadone dose change 3 weeks ago gives me pause and leads me to recommend holding. It can't hurt and definitely may help.

Thank you. That makes sense. It can be a lot all at once.

July 2, 2021

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

On the topic of self-inquiry, have you heard of Byron Katie?

Yes, what a fantastic story she has. That’s great she was such a help for you, I love finding people I resonate with.

I’m doing more intuitive healing these days, just observing what is happening in the moment and asking myself “why” questions if I get stuck on a thought. Why can’t I be happy when I’m in w/d? Why should I feel anxious if I don’t sleep well? Always the same answer ultimately. Nothing is a problem!!

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I'm doing what you said and trying to experience my emotions neutrally today, without latching onto the victim stories that spiral through my head and make me feel completely hopeless and dejected. It's helping.

I’m happy to hear it’s helping. And remember if you can’t observe an emotion neutrally then just observe that. Just keep observing what’s happening in the present moment. It helps you to acknowledge the space between you and a feeling. You are always the space.

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

These old patterns are very insistent about everything I do not being good enough and I often forget that I don't have to believe them.

Yes, they certainly are. I find myself still clinging to my mind for answers. We are beyond thought. It takes practice for sure!!

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I LOVE THIS. The obstacle in our path are our path. I've been told that our "problems" are literally why we incarnated here on this earth, in order to heal them...that we each chose to come here for this purpose. And walking through the fire does always lead to the best and brightest things, alchemizing pain into gold/lessons/joy. I just get so stuck and forget to look at everything through that lens, the lens of healing and "how is this happening for me." Thank you.

I absolutely believe we choose our parents and life situations to grow from. I’ve heard people refer to this life as soul school and that totally resonates with me. I keep saying it but I do believe this work is the most important thing we can do and once we do it everything else will just fall into place.

July 7, 2021

On 7/2/2021 at 3:03 PM, Mia1 said:

I’m doing more intuitive healing these days, just observing what is happening in the moment and asking myself “why” questions if I get stuck on a thought. Why can’t I be happy when I’m in w/d? Why should I feel anxious if I don’t sleep well? Always the same answer ultimately. Nothing is a problem!!

Right. Why can't I be happy while in w/d? I feel like we can go through this kind of "hell" and still feel freer and more alive than we've ever been. That's already been the case for me in some moments, at least...

On 7/2/2021 at 3:03 PM, Mia1 said:

I absolutely believe we choose our parents and life situations to grow from. I’ve heard people refer to this life as soul school and that totally resonates with me. I keep saying it but I do believe this work is the most important thing we can do and once we do it everything else will just fall into place.

I'm seeing this more and more, everywhere I look. There's this journaling technique from Daniela Garcia where you vent out your experience, uncensored, and get as childish and victimy as you need to and then step back and ask "How is this happening for me?" I've been doing that here and there. Helps to extract lessons from even the most intense, painful experiences.

Been having so many neuro emotions and anxious thoughts lately!! I had an OK July 4th at the beach but an old friend visited and while it was great to see her, I froze up and felt extremely uncomfortable all day long. I thought I'd healed more of my "social anxiety" but apparently I was wrong. Social anxiety is in quotes because I don't like to pathologize things anymore, as it's not a disorder in my book anymore; it's unhealed trauma from being judged/un-accepted as a young child, so I'm forever terrified that I won't be accepted so I shut down, disassociate, and panic because I don't know what to say or even "how to be." I was crawling out of my skin all day long. It was very painful. It makes me want to push everyone away because it's so painful. And yet, I crave the connection. Weird cognitive dissonance.

Anyway, that was overwhelming and awkward. And after a social situation, I often get really sad because I desperately want to be able to connect deeply and yet I can't relax enough to make that happen so I grieve. And I obsessively go over all the things I said and did and worry they came off badly, upset the other person or at least didn't make them as happy as I could have...it's exhausting! I had that same experience this week but this time, I acknowledged the anxious thoughts and focused on my breath and physical sensations and it wasn't nearly as awful.

I've been having a little more trouble sleeping lately, and on Friday night, I got maybe 3 hours and I was a complete basket case the next day. Saturday we were supposed to meet up with my friend at the beach, too, and I couldn't stop crying because I was so exhausted and felt like I was going to be extra anxious, awkward, overwhelmed and uncomfortable because of it. That is what happens when I'm sleep deprived...my nervous system is way more activated more quickly. In the middle of it, it's like I could see the fork in the road: turn left, and go down the I-can't-do-this-I'm-so-tired-and-scared-and-sad-Everything-is-awful road; turn right, and go down the I'm-an-observer-and-I-am-always-OK road. And I wanted to go right, of course, but the feelings welled up so fast, so big and so intense, I couldn't grab the wheel and I served left, hard. I sobbed all morning long until I had some CBD and finally felt somewhat sane again. Still, I was exhausted and anxious and wanted to go home. At the end of the day, we did stay home, and my friend got to town late, so it didn't even matter. I had sobbed and freaked out so hard for nothing! And I felt confused and ashamed.

Then, when I tried to go to sleep that night, I did a body scan and then focused on my breath, and as soon as I really honed in on my breath, I, like, "forgot how to breathe" and started gasping and feeling short of breath and got super anxious again. That happens sometimes when I focus on my breath...it's like suddenly I don't know how to normally inhale and exhale, and it freaks me out and I can't relax into it. I tried to just focus on my bodily sensations but couldn't ignore my breath entirely and I was up for hours, self-soothing. Finally I took a Benadryl and went to sleep.

Does anyone else here have issues with not being able to breathe normally when they focus on their breath? I feel like it's really weird because I've never heard anyone else talk about it. It's not an issue every time I meditate, not even close. But sometimes, it's a problem for me every time for days and days, and then I'll relax and it's not a problem. Thanks for reading this long-ass ramble sesh.

I'm feeling better this morning, even though I just dealt with an extremely activating situation with my previous landlord. They charged us for a bunch of ridiculous things they knew I would dispute (long story!) and, to avoid dealing with me, they withheld my itemized bill until the 30 day mark so they could legally turn me over to collections for non-payment without giving me a chance to dispute the charges. Crazy, right? Friggin crooks! I've been extremely angry at them for this and for a number of things for years and only now have been able to let go of some of that anger due to the fact that I don't live there anymore (thank God!!!!) but I'm still dealing with intense rage and fear and I think it's exacerbated by the fact that I'm balancing out on my meds. I wrote their corporate office this long email and my heart's been racing basically since I got the bill yesterday afternoon. It makes sense to feel angry at people who've committed an injustice, right, but to be shaking all over and fuming for hours on end? That's a neuro emotion...at least it's not scaring me. In the past, I would feel trapped and afraid I could never shake this intense anger and energy but this time it's kind of like, "That sucks but I'm OK." So. Progress. Thanks for reading this... ❤️

July 7, 2021

Oh, and on the topic of our choosing relationships and situations to heal... I got this book, Transforming Your Dragons, and I totally have what the author calls the martyrdom dragon. As in, I (unconsciously) call people and situations (like my previous landlord!) into my life in order to continually play the part of the martyr. I learned it from my mom--worry/panic/anxiety and martyrdom/bitterness/victimhood. We absolutely create our worlds!! It was not easy to take responsibility for that, being bullied and engaging in toxic relationships and extremely toxic living situations. But through journaling and lots of meditation and self-inquiry, I have.

Anyone heard of that book? I haven't done the exercises yet. I'm excited to dig in and start calling in better, less toxic relationships into my life. I'm already well on my way but there's so much more work to do... ❤️

July 7, 2021

18 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

Been having so many neuro emotions and anxious thoughts lately!! I had an OK July 4th at the beach but an old friend visited and while it was great to see her, I froze up and felt extremely uncomfortable all day long. I thought I'd healed more of my "social anxiety" but apparently I was wrong. Social anxiety is in quotes because I don't like to pathologize things anymore, as it's not a disorder in my book anymore; it's unhealed trauma from being judged/un-accepted as a young child, so I'm forever terrified that I won't be accepted so I shut down, disassociate, and panic because I don't know what to say or even "how to be." I was crawling out of my skin all day long. It was very painful. It makes me want to push everyone away because it's so painful. And yet, I crave the connection. Weird cognitive dissonance.

I love that you put these diagnoses in quotations, you’re absolutely right it’s trauma, and trauma wants to be healed. I have experienced a lot of his in my life due to low self esteem issues. We crave the connection because we’re all connected, but the mind wants you to think you’re separate.

Keep connecting with your deeper self and allow yourself to feel these feelings without judgement. It’s just an experience, right? Over time if you keep doing this you will train your body to become more comfortable in these situations.

23 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

Anyway, that was overwhelming and awkward. And after a social situation, I often get really sad because I desperately want to be able to connect deeply and yet I can't relax enough to make that happen so I grieve. And I obsessively go over all the things I said and did and worry they came off badly, upset the other person or at least didn't make them as happy as I could have...it's exhausting! I had that same experience this week but this time, I acknowledged the anxious thoughts and focused on my breath and physical sensations and it wasn't nearly as awful.

Remember to separate from the story of the mind, everything is neutral. Just be aware and observe. It really does get easier with practice. And remember that not everything you’re feeling right now is accurate. Neuro emotions are absolutely real. I actually find myself doing the same thing, going over conversations in my mind asking myself how could I have been “better”.” If I’m not careful it becomes OCD. So I just acknowledge it and don’t give it any attention. Sometimes it feels difficult because there’s an almost physical pull to think about it and go over it but it’s ultimately not real. A lot of people experience OCD thoughts during w/d, I wonder if you’re experiencing that? Even if you are don’t worry it does go away. Just remember, don’t react.

When I find myself in these situations I think what a great opportunity for me to choose self kindness and love and then release the thought. All day if I need to. I haven’t found any shortcuts yet, lol ....

30 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

Does anyone else here have issues with not being able to breathe normally when they focus on their breath? I feel like it's really weird because I've never heard anyone else talk about it. It's not an issue every time I meditate, not even close. But sometimes, it's a problem for me every time for days and days, and then I'll relax and it's not a problem.

I actually have this, it’s breathing OCD. I also have swallowing OCD. So basically you become hyper focused on body functions that happen naturally. It’s actually not a problem if you don’t attach fear to it. Allow whatever is happening without judgement. The breathing is not the issue, it’s your reaction to it. Change that and you don’t have a problem. Why should you be anxious because you’re hyper focused on your breath? Why does it have to be uncomfortable? Keep asking yourself why if you get stuck. Remember, all problems are problems of the mind.

When I developed the swallowing one several months back I knew the only way for it to go away was to just accept it. I would consciously swallow ALL day long. But the good news is that after a week it essentially went away because I gave it very little energy (focus.) I always say this but acceptance will truly set you free in any situation life will gift you with.

Remember KLP, you are the river, you’ve got this!!💪

36 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

I'm feeling better this morning, even though I just dealt with an extremely activating situation with my previous landlord.

37 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

I'm still dealing with intense rage and fear and I think it's exacerbated by the fact that I'm balancing out on my meds.

Yes, neuro emotions will take all emotions to the extreme. This is my biggest issue to date. You’re handling it really well and you already have amazing awareness so it’s just a matter of letting your body heal.

I’m changing my relationship with neuro emotions and looking at it as advanced learning and healing. So if this is soul school we’re in an advanced class. Pretty cool, huh? Just imagine how unshakable you are going to be once you are fully healed!!

35 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

As in, I (unconsciously) call people and situations (like my previous landlord!) into my life in order to continually play the part of the martyr.

Yes, I believe that when we come here we want to learn certain lessons and until we do the universe will keep giving us the same lesson. I’m so grateful for awareness. I’m really excited for you and the work you’re doing, you’re really transforming not only your life but those around you, it’s how it works!! So next time you feel down on yourself think of that. I don’t know many people who have the strength to do it.🙏💗

July 7, 2021

@KittenLePurrWow sounds like you and I have had a few tuff days. Sometimes you could be talking about me, we are a lot a like. I suppose most trauma from childhood can create similar symptoms. I felt like I was invisible. Don't you see me

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

There's this journaling technique from Daniela Garcia where you vent out your experience, uncensored, and get as childish and victimy as you need to and then step back and ask "How is this happening for me?" I've been doing that here and there. Helps to extract lessons from even the most intense, painful experiences.

This sounds like something I should look into. Can you tell me more about it?

My therapist has been telling I can tell the guard that I developed to take care of that frightened little girl you can go now I don't need you anymore. I was on a walk earlier and it stuck me. There is 2 of me . The ridged, aggressive, strong (look like I have it all together)person that took over to survive. Then the soft, shy, timid, scared . Now I have to figure out how to let the real me out but with confidence.

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

Oh, and on the topic of our choosing relationships and situations to heal... I got this book, Transforming Your Dragons, and I totally have what the author calls the martyrdom dragon. As in, I (unconsciously) call people and situations (like my previous landlord!) into my life in order to continually play the part of the martyr. I learned it from my mom--worry/panic/anxiety and martyrdom/bitterness/victimhood.

You really hit the nail on the head. I am going to get that book. I want to change, grow and learn how to let the past go. But I don't always know where to begin. It feels like I am in a corn maze and I can't find the way out. Having a book to help lead me will be helpful.

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

In the middle of it, it's like I could see the fork in the road: turn left, and go down the I-can't-do-this-I'm-so-tired-and-scared-and-sad-Everything-is-awful road; turn right, and go down the I'm-an-observer-and-I-am-always-OK road. And I wanted to go right, of course, but the feelings welled up so fast, so big and so intense, I couldn't grab the wheel and I served left, hard.

Thank you for that analogue I will have to use that when I am about to be sucked down in my ocd social anxiety. I get stuck on the what if. Then I try and reason them out. By that time my brain will not think rationally. Just stay the course and let the anxiety happen. My social anxiety is bad even around my kids. It struck me not long ago that I feel unworthy of there love, so I feel intimated by them. So the guard comes out and I get withdrawn, or overly aggressive. I don't know how to handle affection😬

Thank you for sharing your struggles it It helps me know I am not alone.

You are a inspiration to me.

July 7, 2021

Hi @KittenLePurr 👋🏻 I very curious about the cbd I was taking it in the beginning of withdraw like week one and two and got anxiety after I took it the last time and blamed the cbd so I stopped taking it but I liked it at first , can you tell me the brand please and would you recommend it

July 11, 2021

On 7/7/2021 at 10:39 AM, Mia1 said:

I love that you put these diagnoses in quotations, you’re absolutely right it’s trauma, and trauma wants to be healed. I have experienced a lot of his in my life due to low self esteem issues. We crave the connection because we’re all connected, but the mind wants you to think you’re separate.

Keep connecting with your deeper self and allow yourself to feel these feelings without judgement. It’s just an experience, right? Over time if you keep doing this you will train your body to become more comfortable in these situations.

Remember to separate from the story of the mind, everything is neutral. Just be aware and observe. It really does get easier with practice. And remember that not everything you’re feeling right now is accurate. Neuro emotions are absolutely real. I actually find myself doing the same thing, going over conversations in my mind asking myself how could I have been “better”.” If I’m not careful it becomes OCD. So I just acknowledge it and don’t give it any attention. Sometimes it feels difficult because there’s an almost physical pull to think about it and go over it but it’s ultimately not real. A lot of people experience OCD thoughts during w/d, I wonder if you’re experiencing that? Even if you are don’t worry it does go away. Just remember, don’t react.

When I find myself in these situations I think what a great opportunity for me to choose self kindness and love and then release the thought. All day if I need to. I haven’t found any shortcuts yet, lol ....

I wrote a reply but apparently I didn’t post it LOL…

thank you so much for this. I really can’t wait for it to get easier!! I kept stopping myself from getting totally wrapped up in the rehashing and examination of all the conversations I had…and it was so challenging because it really does feel like I’m being physically pulled (or violently yanked?!) toward these thoughts. I do have OCD thoughts. I have them anyway to an extent so they get much louder and more obsessive in withdrawal. That and anxiety about cleanliness.

On 7/7/2021 at 10:39 AM, Mia1 said:

I actually have this, it’s breathing OCD. I also have swallowing OCD. So basically you become hyper focused on body functions that happen naturally. It’s actually not a problem if you don’t attach fear to it. Allow whatever is happening without judgement. The breathing is not the issue, it’s your reaction to it. Change that and you don’t have a problem. Why should you be anxious because you’re hyper focused on your breath? Why does it have to be uncomfortable? Keep asking yourself why if you get stuck. Remember, all problems are problems of the mind.

When I developed the swallowing one several months back I knew the only way for it to go away was to just accept it. I would consciously swallow ALL day long. But the good news is that after a week it essentially went away because I gave it very little energy (focus.) I always say this but acceptance will truly set you free in any situation life will gift you with.

Remember KLP, you are the river, you’ve got this!!💪

I’m so relieved to hear I’m not the only one experiencing this!! It’s so weird that I don’t have it all the time but it comes in waves, even when I’m not intensely withdrawing, and it becomes a fear that sticks around for days and days before eventually subsiding…at least, it subsided before, after I just kept on meditating and kind of forgot about it. I wonder what made it come back? Maybe a lack of other things to obsess over??😆😂🤦🏻‍♀️ I’m also relieved that you conquered the breathing OCD. I’ve been asking myself “Why does it have to be scary/uncomfortable?” over and over again when it happens in meditation and it has definitely helped…but then I wonder, “Do I resist the urge to take a deep breath and just ignore the rising pressure in my chest? Or do I do what I want to and take the deep breath and just not stress about it?” Although taking the deep breath often adds fuel to the fire because I often can’t “catch” my breath, so it leads to any other thought/feeling of “Oh no, I can’t breathe.” I don’t know? What do you think?
It also helps just to ignore it and ignore my breath altogether, focusing instead on bodily sensations. But then I often creep back over to noticing my breath and think, “No no no, don’t focus on it, don’t focus on it, don’t do it!” and feel frustrated about that. Sounds so neurotic, writing it out like this. I know I’m not crazy but also have this vision of other people thinking I’m annoying…so really I’m telling myself I’m annoying and that’s not helpful! Letting that go.

On 7/7/2021 at 10:39 AM, Mia1 said:

Yes, neuro emotions will take all emotions to the extreme. This is my biggest issue to date. You’re handling it really well and you already have amazing awareness so it’s just a matter of letting your body heal.

I’m changing my relationship with neuro emotions and looking at it as advanced learning and healing. So if this is soul school we’re in an advanced class. Pretty cool, huh? Just imagine how unshakable you are going to be once you are fully healed!!

we ARE in the Soul School Advanced Class!! I had another “test” yesterday; I requested a Celexa refill through the grocery’s automated system and when I arrived to pick it up hours later, they told me it was out of stock. I was ENRAGED that they hadn’t called me hours before! Just absolutely irate. And I was standing there going, “Oh my god, that is obnoxious but why I am I THIS angry about it?? I can get it at another pharmacy for a little more money, which I have. It’s not the end of the world!” but I was just so, so angry. I was shaking and venting walking around the store with my guy, who completely shut down like he does and said I just get upset when I don’t get my way. So then I’m like “You just think I’m this brat, this evil b****, huh?” and got angry and resentful at him. It was so intense. Finally I called Walgreens and figured out it would only be like $25 more, not the end of the world, and I calmed down.

Thank you for your encouragement. It really is so hard to take control and stay connected to my true self in the moment when these waves of neuro emotions hit. It’s like I see I could turn right to take the high and centered road or veer left to go into inner child tantrum mode and I can’t grab ahold of the steering wheel to veer right, so I descent into tantrum while still watching in bewilderment. Not making myself wrong for it. But it feels sort of helpless and confusing.

On 7/7/2021 at 10:39 AM, Mia1 said:

Yes, I believe that when we come here we want to learn certain lessons and until we do the universe will keep giving us the same lesson. I’m so grateful for awareness. I’m really excited for you and the work you’re doing, you’re really transforming not only your life but those around you, it’s how it works!! So next time you feel down on yourself think of that. I don’t know many people who have the strength to do it.🙏💗

Thank you, @Mia1 ❤️ I’m so grateful to have met you here. When I managed to connect deeply to my intuition in meditation last week I remembered I’m one of the chosen ones for doing this work and felt a lot of pride and humility for it, and talking with you reminds me to hold onto that. One step at a time.

July 11, 2021

55 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

it really does feel like I’m being physically pulled (or violently yanked?!) toward these thoughts.

This is exactly how I feel, never had this kind of physical pull before so I know it’s w/d. Neuro emotions, am I right?

58 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

I’ve been asking myself “Why does it have to be scary/uncomfortable?” over and over again when it happens in meditation and it has definitely helped…but then I wonder, “Do I resist the urge to take a deep breath and just ignore the rising pressure in my chest? Or do I do what I want to and take the deep breath and just not stress about it?” Although taking the deep breath often adds fuel to the fire because I often can’t “catch” my breath, so it leads to any other thought/feeling of “Oh no, I can’t breathe.” I don’t know? What do you think?

So just realize that all those questions are thoughts. OCD thoughts want attention, they want the energy to stay strong. So what better way then to convince you if you just think about it long enough you’ll figure out a way for it to go away. You won’t. Remember, the idea here is that you are okay whether it is there or not, you do not resist it. You acknowledge it for what it is, accept it and simply don’t focus on it. If you find yourself focusing on it then repeat.

Since we want you to focus away from your breathing I would definitely put the focus on the sounds in your environment or a body part during meditation. Do what feels good for you in the moment. If you want to breathe deeply then do that. If you get anxious about it accept the anxious thoughts and observe it until it goes away. If your whole meditation ends up being you focused on your thoughts until they go that’s great too. Remember, it’s about connecting with awareness, all the other stuff is just noise to observe.

The breathing one funny enough didn’t bother me, it was the swallowing one that upset me. I would actually get a sore throat from swallowing so much. From time to time my awareness will continue to focus on this. Like I said I never experienced OCD like this before. It doesn’t bother me though and because of that it leaves quickly. You’ll get to this point too. Just keep accepting, it’s the way to heal it.

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

It also helps just to ignore it and ignore my breath altogether, focusing instead on bodily sensations. But then I often creep back over to noticing my breath and think, “No no no, don’t focus on it, don’t focus on it, don’t do it!” and feel frustrated about that. Sounds so neurotic, writing it out like this. I know I’m not crazy but also have this vision of other people thinking I’m annoying…so really I’m telling myself I’m annoying and that’s not helpful! Letting that go

I still get those anxious thoughts too. It’s exactly as you describe. And they still grab me sometimes but the important thing is I always recognize it as a thought, I accept it and I let it go (shift my focus off it.) Are you starting to see a pattern? Lol... You’re not crazy at all, you’re just identifying with your thoughts too much.

I would recommend adding a 10-15 minute meditation during the day where you just focus on your thoughts. When repeating anxious thoughts come start to play around with them. What color are they, what do they look like, feel like? When you have a picture of that change it into something that looks and feels good, transform the thoughts into healing.

And you’re not annoying at all, in fact you’re amazing and kind and smart and on and on!!

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

I had another “test” yesterday; I requested a Celexa refill through the grocery’s automated system and when I arrived to pick it up hours later, they told me it was out of stock. I was ENRAGED that they hadn’t called me hours before! Just absolutely irate. And I was standing there going, “Oh my god, that is obnoxious but why I am I THIS angry about it?? I can get it at another pharmacy for a little more money, which I have. It’s not the end of the world!” but I was just so, so angry. I was shaking and venting walking around the store with my guy, who completely shut down like he does and said I just get upset when I don’t get my way. So then I’m like “You just think I’m this brat, this evil b****, huh?” and got angry and resentful at him. It was so intense. Finally I called Walgreens and figured out it would only be like $25 more, not the end of the world, and I calmed down.

I’m so glad you shared this. This is your old program at work, it’s the ego. Elkhart Tolle talks about how these experiences are great spiritual practices to see the ego at work. He says what’s the problem really, if you weren’t standing in this line then you would be standing in another line or sitting. And he’s right. It’s all just experience.

So you have the awareness that there really isn’t a problem and you shouldn’t be this upset but you have your old program pushing you hard because of neuro emotions, so what to do? As soon as you realize it, STOP the dialogue in your head. STOP. Take a deep breathe. Remind yourself that the only way you can change this old pattern is to choose a different way to act. It will not be easy but if you do this and keep choosing who you really want to be then this will become part of your new program, you won’t even have to think about it. You will be the person that is untouched by outside events. You will be in control. Remember, we’re in advanced class so we can’t expect it to be easy!!

But you really are almost there, just like half a step away, I can actually feel it!! I honestly feel like I’m getting that message to tell you to keep it up, to choose the right path.

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

Thank you, @Mia1 ❤️ I’m so grateful to have met you here. When I managed to connect deeply to my intuition in meditation last week I remembered I’m one of the chosen ones for doing this work and felt a lot of pride and humility for it, and talking with you reminds me to hold onto that. One step at a time.

You’re very welcome. I’m so grateful for our talks, I don’t know many people on the path I’m on and then to have that person understand everything I’m going through with psychiatric drug withdrawal is just a blessing. So thank YOU 🙏💗

July 13, 2021

On 7/11/2021 at 10:10 AM, Mia1 said:

So just realize that all those questions are thoughts. OCD thoughts want attention, they want the energy to stay strong. So what better way then to convince you if you just think about it long enough you’ll figure out a way for it to go away. You won’t. Remember, the idea here is that you are okay whether it is there or not, you do not resist it. You acknowledge it for what it is, accept it and simply don’t focus on it. If you find yourself focusing on it then repeat.

Omg yes. It's ALL thoughts...endless, circling, spiraling, neurotic effing thoughts. I didn't even realize I had these OCD qualities before this, that that's what it was, or that it's common. And I've actually kind of always had some version of this but to a much, much, much lower degree before I started tapering. These are the circular thoughts that lead me to feel like no matter what I do, I can't be clean because I touched a piece of wet paper and got grossed out (I haaaaaate wet paper...it's a thing for me and has been my entire life. Wet or super old, tattered, torn, decrepit paper...UGH. I just Googled it and apparently, I'm not the only one, and if I wanted to pathologize it, it would be called Papyrophobia, which I find strangle amusing...) Or getting lint all over my hands from drying them on a brand new towel...

Anyway, thank you. Just ignore them, including the "But what should I do?" ones..!

On 7/11/2021 at 10:10 AM, Mia1 said:

Since we want you to focus away from your breathing I would definitely put the focus on the sounds in your environment or a body part during meditation. Do what feels good for you in the moment. If you want to breathe deeply then do that. If you get anxious about it accept the anxious thoughts and observe it until it goes away. If your whole meditation ends up being you focused on your thoughts until they go that’s great too. Remember, it’s about connecting with awareness, all the other stuff is just noise to observe.

The breathing one funny enough didn’t bother me, it was the swallowing one that upset me. I would actually get a sore throat from swallowing so much. From time to time my awareness will continue to focus on this. Like I said I never experienced OCD like this before. It doesn’t bother me though and because of that it leaves quickly. You’ll get to this point too. Just keep accepting, it’s the way to heal it.

I can imagine the swallowing thing would be extremely bothersome. I've experienced a fear around not being able to swallow in very brief spurts before and I freeeaked. And still have this, "Oh my god, but that could actually happen to me--what if I couldn't swallow, for real?!" thought, from some part of me who finds that truly terrifying and wants to get all scared. The mind is always on high alert, trying to protect us, and yet it's the only thing hurting us, really. So crazy to realize that.

I hope you're right, and I'm getting to that point! It feels so neverending and unpleasant but, again, that's all thinking and meaning-making, too.

On 7/11/2021 at 10:10 AM, Mia1 said:

I would recommend adding a 10-15 minute meditation during the day where you just focus on your thoughts. When repeating anxious thoughts come start to play around with them. What color are they, what do they look like, feel like? When you have a picture of that change it into something that looks and feels good, transform the thoughts into healing.

Thank you, I'm going to try this out. It hasn't been as much of an issue the past few days; it really is weird how it will come and go. But I guess that's part of the windows and waves pattern, huh?

On 7/11/2021 at 10:10 AM, Mia1 said:

And you’re not annoying at all, in fact you’re amazing and kind and smart and on and on!!

I’m so glad you shared this. This is your old program at work, it’s the ego. Elkhart Tolle talks about how these experiences are great spiritual practices to see the ego at work. He says what’s the problem really, if you weren’t standing in this line then you would be standing in another line or sitting. And he’s right. It’s all just experience.

So you have the awareness that there really isn’t a problem and you shouldn’t be this upset but you have your old program pushing you hard because of neuro emotions, so what to do? As soon as you realize it, STOP the dialogue in your head. STOP. Take a deep breathe. Remind yourself that the only way you can change this old pattern is to choose a different way to act. It will not be easy but if you do this and keep choosing who you really want to be then this will become part of your new program, you won’t even have to think about it. You will be the person that is untouched by outside events. You will be in control. Remember, we’re in advanced class so we can’t expect it to be easy!!

But you really are almost there, just like half a step away, I can actually feel it!! I honestly feel like I’m getting that message to tell you to keep it up, to choose the right path.

Thank you so much. This is so reaffirming. And it's almost kinda funny to me now that I was so upset and remained awake throughout but didn't know what to do...until it just faded. I can get stuck in thinking I'll never be able to truly choose who I want to be when I'm really triggered. Because I've come so far and grown so much and yet, most of the time, things in my world aren't super exciting or unexpected? So it's easier to be standing in this place of healing and growth, in my new perspective. But then, BOOM--sideswiped by something unexpected and an old program taking over. I feel embarrassed for that. I worry my guy takes that to mean I haven't grown/changed at all. Do you worry about what other people think, too? I've done a lot of work on that over the years and, while I don't worry even half as much as I used to, I still feel worried about what other people think. Again, though, those are just thoughts. And they don't really matter, so I can just ignore them and choose another way to be. Baby steps...

On 7/11/2021 at 10:10 AM, Mia1 said:

You’re very welcome. I’m so grateful for our talks, I don’t know many people on the path I’m on and then to have that person understand everything I’m going through with psychiatric drug withdrawal is just a blessing. So thank YOU 🙏💗

I'm so glad, @Mia1❤️ A million times, thank you.

I've been in a nice window the past couple days. Not so anxious, even though I don't have much income or work right now. Really focusing on self-care and looking for different kinds of work that might be easier than writing...I got a new client last week and the first project I did for them was extremely challenging. It's so hard not to get frustrated and depressed about this brain fog. It makes it so much harder to do anything and everything.

July 13, 2021

On 7/7/2021 at 4:55 PM, Phoenixmama said:

Hi @KittenLePurr 👋🏻 I very curious about the cbd I was taking it in the beginning of withdraw like week one and two and got anxiety after I took it the last time and blamed the cbd so I stopped taking it but I liked it at first , can you tell me the brand please and would you recommend it

Hey @Phoenixmama, I've experienced anxiety with a few kinds of CBD that contained small amounts of THC. I do not do well with any THC, even tiny amounts that are legal to have in CBD products! I really like Steve's Goods. I use their wax in a vape pen but they also have great tinctures and balms. They're based out of CO and have awesome customer support. Stevesgoods.com I think

July 13, 2021

On 7/7/2021 at 11:45 AM, Greatful said:

@KittenLePurrWow sounds like you and I have had a few tuff days. Sometimes you could be talking about me, we are a lot a like. I suppose most trauma from childhood can create similar symptoms. I felt like I was invisible. Don't you see me

Sorry to have missed this before now. Feeling invisible--yes!! I have a very deep trauma around feeling unseen and unvalued. It's going to take a lot of work to completely heal it but it is absolutely doable. Totally childhood trauma related.

On 7/7/2021 at 11:45 AM, Greatful said:

This sounds like something I should look into. Can you tell me more about it?

My therapist has been telling I can tell the guard that I developed to take care of that frightened little girl you can go now I don't need you anymore. I was on a walk earlier and it stuck me. There is 2 of me . The ridged, aggressive, strong (look like I have it all together)person that took over to survive. Then the soft, shy, timid, scared . Now I have to figure out how to let the real me out but with confidence.

Yes so I just discovered her through one of my writing clients, Kelly Brogan...she did a special workshop for Kelly's membership community so I don't have a link to that workshop but I can break it down and you can totally do it!

Basically it's a journaling exercise that goes like this. First, you just journal out your experience. No censoring it, no judging it; just let the little girl inside you speak. Go deep into the experience and emotions and write out everything your little girl feels. Even if it's mean, nasty, ugly stuff like "I hate him, I wish he would just disappear" or whatever. Then when you feel like you've expressed all the feelings and nastiness, take on a more curious perspective and journal on the question, "How could this be happening for me? What is in this that could be valuable/beneficial?" Might take some brainstorming but most times you can find something valuable like a lesson of some sort. And then when you've uncovered a lesson, journal around what that is and how you can put it into practice.

I did this technique around the way a previous landlord had treated me. They were seemingly out to get me. Seriously. Lying, deceiving, withholding my move-out bill...I was so angry! I still am, so I need to keep journaling on it--not that the intent is to make feelings "go away," per se, but to process them. Journaling on it definitely helped. I saw and accepted my part in all of my victim stories in a way I hadn't ever before. I have lots of victim stories!! Lol.

On 7/7/2021 at 11:45 AM, Greatful said:

You really hit the nail on the head. I am going to get that book. I want to change, grow and learn how to let the past go. But I don't always know where to begin. It feels like I am in a corn maze and I can't find the way out. Having a book to help lead me will be helpful.

I still haven't started reading it and I'm sorta beating myself up for it but do it; I think it's going to be great! I love your analogy of being in a corn maze!! I feel like that a lot, too. Empowering books are definitely a huge support and I think I've just been too lazy to read lately. I get like that sometimes but once I finally start in, if it's a good book, it's invaluable.

On 7/7/2021 at 11:45 AM, Greatful said:

Thank you for that analogue I will have to use that when I am about to be sucked down in my ocd social anxiety. I get stuck on the what if. Then I try and reason them out. By that time my brain will not think rationally. Just stay the course and let the anxiety happen. My social anxiety is bad even around my kids. It struck me not long ago that I feel unworthy of there love, so I feel intimated by them. So the guard comes out and I get withdrawn, or overly aggressive. I don't know how to handle affection😬

I'm sorry you're struggling with this so much. I really get it. Even around family, which feels "bad" or "wrong," right? Because they're my family! I grew up with them. I "should" be comfortable around them. But something in me is not, is deeply, deeply terrified and feels unsafe. It's a learned response. And we can unlearn it. With time and work..

On 7/7/2021 at 11:45 AM, Greatful said:

Thank you for sharing your struggles it It helps me know I am not alone.

You are a inspiration to me.

Thank you for sharing, too. It helps me to know I'm also not alone, more than anything in the world!! ❤️

July 13, 2021

@KittenLePurr

When I was reading your example of journaling about you landlord the thought jumped into my mind how angry I am with my Pdoc. I think I will need to do this about my anger toward him😡

I do know I have some responsibility in my health care. As I do in all my actions and decisions that I make. Buuttt he is the doctor and when and you trust they know what they are doing UGH

I will have to think about my feelings of when I was a child. I think I blocked some of it out.

You were talking about worrying about what other people think of you. Have you ever read the "Feeling Good the new mood therapy" By David Burns. It really digs into cognitive distortions. So if you were thinking something like They must think I'm stupid because I said this.....That would be called Mind Reading, Counter act that thought with I really don't know what they are thinking. They could be thinking that you are really smart, or didn't even catch what you said.

There are 10 All or nothing thinking, Overgeneralization, Mental filter, Disqualifying the Positive, Jumping to conclusions, Magnification (catastrophizing) or minimization, Emotional Reasoning, should statements, Labeling and mislabeling, Personalization. He explains what each of these mean. If you haven't heard of these, this book is a must.

And OCD is the pits. The what if is what gets me. I know rationally what I'm obsessing over is not rational but then the WHAT IF comes riding on in the dark horse and high jacks the logic.

I'm working on it

Have a good evening❤️

July 13, 2021

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

And I've actually kind of always had some version of this but to a much, much, much lower degree before I started tapering.

I’m going through the same exact thing, I just mentioned to @Greatfulthat it was never like this until I started tapering.

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

These are the circular thoughts that lead me to feel like no matter what I do, I can't be clean because I touched a piece of wet paper and got grossed out (I haaaaaate wet paper...it's a thing for me and has been my entire life. Wet or super old, tattered, torn, decrepit paper...UGH. I just Googled it and apparently, I'm not the only one, and if I wanted to pathologize it, it would be called Papyrophobia, which I find strangle amusing...) Or getting lint all over my hands from drying them on a brand new towel...

Are you doing any healing work for this?

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I feel embarrassed for that. I worry my guy takes that to mean I haven't grown/changed at all. Do you worry about what other people think, too? I've done a lot of work on that over the years and, while I don't worry even half as much as I used to, I still feel worried about what other people think. Again, though, those are just thoughts. And they don't really matter, so I can just ignore them and choose another way to be. Baby steps...

Please don’t be embarrassed, that would be like going to take piano lessons and then getting embarrassed at your first session because you couldn’t play. The point is to practice, that’s how we get good. I still get lost in the story, the difference is I’m seeing it more and more in the beginning. And it feels really uncomfortable to stop, I want to keep replaying the program, there’s such a strong pull. But I do stop and that only makes it easier next time.

I don’t worry too much about what other people think because I know it’s never about me. We’re just projecting our own stuff onto people until we become aware of it. I can certainly understand what you’re saying though. I think it all goes back to the worry that you will be judged and then ultimately not loved, what do you think?

And I have no doubt your guy sees you and all the progress you have made. He must be so proud of you!!

2 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I've been in a nice window the past couple days.

This is so amazing to hear!! I’ve actually been feeling sick since this past weekend. I have been doing a healing meditation daily that helps me to let go of my symptoms. We’re all getting there one day at a time.

July 14, 2021

11 hours ago, Mia1 said:

Are you doing any healing work for this?

you know what, It’s never occurred to me. I always just thought it was a thing of mine I couldn’t change. And I literally never Googled it until yesterday. I’ve always just avoided old books and wet paper and if I’m forced to confront them, I get freaked and then self-soothe and forget about it. Weird that it hasn’t ever crossed my mind to work on that.

As a little girl I would go to work with my mom when she didn’t have a sitter for my sister and me. She worked in a library so I was surrounded by old, beat up books…it was cringey AF! I was grossed out all day long. I’ve rarely borrowed books from

any library, and when I have, I haven’t been able to fully relax and read them. Luckily everything’s mostly digitally available now. I feel like I’m healing so much it’s not a priority but maybe it is time to look at it. It’s some kind of cleanliness thing.

Quote

I don’t worry too much about what other people think because I know it’s never about me. We’re just projecting our own stuff onto people until we become aware of it. I can certainly understand what you’re saying though. I think it all goes back to the worry that you will be judged and then ultimately not loved, what do you think?

yes, that’s exactly it. It’s so strong and pervasive!

Quote

And I have no doubt your guy sees you and all the progress you have made. He must be so proud of you!!

Thanks for this. I love him and he does acknowledge me but he also doesn’t get what I’m doing…! I’d love to bring healing to him but he’s resistant. Very different traumas from his childhood…I’ve had to let go of trying to get him onboard with spiritual growth and make him understand my experience and what I’m going through…he’s on his own path. But he is understanding as he can be for someone who doesn’t “get” it, and he’s incredibly patient and unassuming… I’m extremely grateful for that!

Quote

This is so amazing to hear!! I’ve actually been feeling sick since this past weekend. I have been doing a healing meditation daily that helps me to let go of my symptoms. We’re all getting there one day at a time.

I’m sorry you’ve been sick. Love the work of letting go of symptoms. I believe everything, even physical illnesses, has an emotional/spiritual component. Not that that makes it easy to release symptoms! When I get sick now, my anxiety kicks up really strong so meditation

and tapping are like my all-day activities. I hope you feel better❤️

July 14, 2021

13 hours ago, Greatful said:

@KittenLePurr

When I was reading your example of journaling about you landlord the thought jumped into my mind how angry I am with my Pdoc. I think I will need to do this about my anger toward him😡

I do know I have some responsibility in my health care. As I do in all my actions and decisions that I make. Buuttt he is the doctor and when and you trust they know what they are doing UGH

This is a tough one for me, too, even though I haven’t been jerked on and off a dozen medications. I’m so sorry you’ve been through such hell. I have a LOT of anger at ignorant, careless doctors and around the medical system, as a whole. Psychiatry is the worst but I believe Western medicine as a whole is a sham based on greed, misguided hypotheses and flat out lies. That said, it saves some lives…but the cost is often greater than the benefit. Not to get on a tangent though😬

Point is: the system is flawed and many things are out of our control. But what we can control is the way we react and the way we experience the world. I have a lot more work to do on my anger and resentment toward the system at large but one thing I’ve realized is there is some nugget of beauty in literally every ugly, nasty thing on the planet. And I think journaling and other spiritual healing practices can help us identify it. If we hadn’t been put on meds by ignorant doctors and jerked around by a system designed to keep us impoverished, sick and dependent, we wouldn’t have had this opportunity to wake up, connect to Spirit and experience what true living feels like. The dark is necessary to see the light.

That said, it still makes sense to be angry about being mistreated and having to go through hell to regain your health and wellness, and no amount of whitewashing and positive thinking will eradicate the pain. I think it’s necessary to go deeper into it, fully feel and process it, and through that we can transform it. You got this! I’m working on it, too. Sorry if that was an unwanted diatribe.

We do have a responsibility in all of the actions we take…AND we’ve been conditioned to trust external authorities who claim to know better than we do. From this, we can learn how to be our own authorities…and that’s something I’m really passionate about.

13 hours ago, Greatful said:

I will have to think about my feelings of when I was a child. I think I blocked some of it out.

journaling may help you remember some of your childhood, too. I have what feel like giant black spots in my memory and still haven’t recovered a lot of my childhood but journaling out things I remember has helped bring back more memories and allowed me to work on my trauma.

13 hours ago, Greatful said:

You were talking about worrying about what other people think of you. Have you ever read the "Feeling Good the new mood therapy" By David Burns. It really digs into cognitive distortions. So if you were thinking something like They must think I'm stupid because I said this.....That would be called Mind Reading, Counter act that thought with I really don't know what they are thinking. They could be thinking that you are really smart, or didn't even catch what you said.

There are 10 All or nothing thinking, Overgeneralization, Mental filter, Disqualifying the Positive, Jumping to conclusions, Magnification (catastrophizing) or minimization, Emotional Reasoning, should statements, Labeling and mislabeling, Personalization. He explains what each of these mean. If you haven't heard of these, this book is a must.

I have not read this. It sounds amazingly helpful! I’m going to look for it, thanks🙂

13 hours ago, Greatful said:

And OCD is the pits. The what if is what gets me. I know rationally what I'm obsessing over is not rational but then the WHAT IF comes riding on in the dark horse and high jacks the logic.

I'm working on it

I know. The what if plagues me too, all the time. I’m doing what @Mia1has suggested almost constantly now, refocusing on the present, my bodily sensations or sounds or feet on the ground and questioning my thoughts. It still feels neverending and challenging a lot of the time. I just did some journaling because I woke up super anxious and angsty and that only cleared very temporarily after I meditated. Writing out all my feelings and asking what’s in it for me definitely seems to help❤️ I hope it helps you too

13 hours ago, Greatful said:

July 14, 2021

Just wanted to post an update/tip for others suffering from brain fog here...

I've been extra, extra foggy the past few days, and it's been a downer...that's my most frustrating symptom, and has been the most frustrating side effect of both Celexa and of Klonipin, when I was on it (and while tapering it last year, of course.) The other night, I was so foggy, I forgot that I had shut the bedroom door after exiting it to use the bathroom (to keep the cats out so I could go to bed shortly!) and, on my way back into the bedroom, I saw blackness but assumed the door was open and the light was just off and it was really dark in there and I walked into the door! Smacked my nose and foot on it. Which was quite startling, of course. I've been foggy but that was a new one... Also been dropping things and forgetting more things than usual.

I haven't adjusted my meds in a few weeks now, so I was just kind of trying to ignore it instead of letting it get to me. Then, this morning, I felt not only more foggy but also really moody and just generally had a sense of malaise. I wanted to just lie around but finally got myself to do a little HIIT (high intensity interval training,) put myself in the shower and took an alternating cold and hot shower, and went outside to sit with my bare feet on the grass. Within 15 minutes, I felt clearer than I've felt in DAYS. DAYS. I hadn't done any exercise or grounding in days, and my showers have been lazy and all hot water. So I apprently my body was missing it's detox ritual!

I know that's long and ramble-y but I just wanted to share...because if anyone gets frustrated with their brain fog, HIIT (or another form of movement, if that works better,) a hot and cold alternating shower and grounding can help. I still feel better and I was able to get some work done today much quicker than I have in days. Hope that's useful.

July 14, 2021

@KittenLePurr I try to walk in the morning to wake me up and motivate me. Mornings are the worse for me. Most week I walk 6 days a week. I don't think my brain could handle high intense training. I was reaching up to put my bird feeder back on the hook and got so dizzy, it took me 3 tries to hang the dumb thing up.

51 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

went outside to sit with my bare feet on the grass.

I spend a lot of time outside on my front porch, even bought a patio recliner. I get a claustrophobic or restless feeling if I am stuck in the house with the air on. If I am destine to hang around home being outside in nature helps. I feel like I am part of the world, watching the neighbors come and go. You know your getting old when you have bird feeds (several) and watch them. One almost landed on me the other day. I guess they think I am part of the fixers on the porch.

59 minutes ago, KittenLePurr said:

I felt not only more foggy but also really moody and just generally had a sense of malaise

I hate that when you feel agitation and the crabby anger rise for no real reason. I have been trying to (as you and Mia1 are teach me) it's okay, you can be crabby just don't take it out on anyone. It generally passes. I don't want to fight it or beat myself up or it, it will only make me more tense and then more crabby. This is work, changing. But I can see it has been working.

1 hour ago, KittenLePurr said:

I saw blackness but assumed the door was open and the light was just off and it was really dark in there and I walked into the door! Smacked my nose and foot on it. Which was quite startling, of course. I've been foggy but that was a new one...

I hope you are okay. But I have to say it made me kind of giggle. (not that you got hurt) I hope you went in and snuggled up to you honey🤗

Do you ever lose what you are gong to say, start and then forget what the rest of what you

were going to say.

We are going to make this one day at a time❤️

July 14, 2021

That’s great news KLP!! I agree that movement is important to healing, whatever you can handle. Appreciate you sharing what works for you 😊

July 20, 2021

@KittenLePurr Hi stopping by to see how you are doing. I get worried if it is to quiet over here♥️

July 20, 2021

@GreatfulI'm sorry to worry you...I'm ok. I just unplugged for a bit. I've been doing some freelance writing work and it's been stressful (and reading over things way more times than necessary to make sure my foggy brain didn't miss anything and being perfectionistic aren't helping) so then I'm glued to the TV. But I'm not beating myself up for not being productive outside the work I have, so that's progress.

I had a weird beach day on Saturday...usually the beach calms me and makes everything feel ok but on Saturday that didn't happen. I just couldn't relax. My thoughts were rapid and suuuuper negative and I just felt deeply unsafe in my body. I had to work really hard at remaining mindful, focusing on my feet in the sand or body in the water and remembering I am not my thoughts. And when it got particularly intense, I did that visualization you suggested, @Mia1 and imagined I was holding and soothing my child self. It got me through. I felt better the next day and still don't know why Saturday was so hard, since I still haven't adjusted my meds but I let go of trying to figure it out. It was a s***ty day...oh well! Right?! 🤪

I'm feeling pretty good today, despite being tired and a little anxious and grumpy. Because of the fatigue and anxiety/grumpy mood, I'm avoiding doing any work and just feeling so, so grateful I even have the option to do that right now😆 I'm doing pretty well, all in all, and thinking I'm going to resume tapering after my guy's parents come visit this weekend. As long as I'm still managing this well. How are y'all doing?? I need to catch up on here. ❤️

July 20, 2021

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

@KittenLePurr I try to walk in the morning to wake me up and motivate me. Mornings are the worse for me. Most week I walk 6 days a week. I don't think my brain could handle high intense training. I was reaching up to put my bird feeder back on the hook and got so dizzy, it took me 3 tries to hang the dumb thing up.

Walking is such a great way to start the day. Don't have to do anything that intense, and it's best not to if you're getting dizzy. Always listen to your body.

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

You know your getting old when you have bird feeds (several) and watch them

LOL!! I want some birdfeeders! I like to watch the birds too. And I geek out whenever I see frogs around (lots of frogs where I live.) Love watching wildlife

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

I hate that when you feel agitation and the crabby anger rise for no real reason. I have been trying to (as you and Mia1 are teach me) it's okay, you can be crabby just don't take it out on anyone. It generally passes. I don't want to fight it or beat myself up or it, it will only make me more tense and then more crabby. This is work, changing. But I can see it has been working.

It IS work. And sometimes it feels just endless and annoying like I don't want to do it anymore...but it is so worth it. I hate feeling crabby too. That's how I'm feeling today. Just remembering to take a breath before I speak so I don't end up taking it out on my guy. Which is a huge challenge in and of itself sometimes. It's great you're not beating yourself up for it. That's huge for me too and I have to remind myself constantly

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

I hope you are okay. But I have to say it made me kind of giggle. (not that you got hurt) I hope you went in and snuggled up to you honey🤗

Lol it's ok...we got a good laugh out of it too. If you can't laugh at yourself...

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

Do you ever lose what you are gong to say, start and then forget what the rest of what you

were going to say.

Yes, all the time. It can get really frustrating. Brain fog is probably what bothers me the most, partly because I have childhood woundage around not feeling smart enough. I'm working on that, and the more I do, the more I know deep inside it's ok and doesn't matter what people think and if it's important enough, I'll remember the rest of what I want to say. Sometimes it comes later, way after the fact when it's not relevant anymore. Or it's practice in letting go. Still a huge challenge.

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

We are going to make this one day at a time❤️

Thank you so much for checking in with me. We ARE going to make it through. It's easier for me to see that for others than for myself for some reason but I know you will, and somewhere inside I know I will, too. Hang in there ❤️

On 7/14/2021 at 5:53 PM, Greatful said:

July 21, 2021

16 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I had a weird beach day on Saturday...usually the beach calms me and makes everything feel ok but on Saturday that didn't happen. I just couldn't relax. My thoughts were rapid and suuuuper negative and I just felt deeply unsafe in my body. I had to work really hard at remaining mindful, focusing on my feet in the sand or body in the water and remembering I am not my thoughts. And when it got particularly intense, I did that visualization you suggested, @Mia1 and imagined I was holding and soothing my child self. It got me through. I felt better the next day and still don't know why Saturday was so hard, since I still haven't adjusted my meds but I let go of trying to figure it out. It was a s***ty day...oh well! Right?! 🤪

We just have to remember we’re doing pretty deep trauma work and on top of that we’re going through psychiatric drug withdrawal which really affects our brain and makes everything feel so much more intense than it actually is.

Coming out of a really intense wave has reminded me of this, that there isn’t necessarily a reason why I feel or felt a certain way. Sometimes it’s just chemical.

I’m happy to hear the grounding and visualization helped you through. You have great awareness, keep it up!!

16 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I'm feeling pretty good today, despite being tired and a little anxious and grumpy. Because of the fatigue and anxiety/grumpy mood, I'm avoiding doing any work and just feeling so, so grateful I even have the option to do that right now😆 I'm doing pretty well, all in all, and thinking I'm going to resume tapering after my guy's parents come visit this weekend. As long as I'm still managing this well. How are y'all doing?? I need to catch up on here. ❤️

I’m happy to hear you’re feeling better, that’s fantastic!! And you’re going to start tapering, let me know how that goes. I honestly can’t wait to taper, I wish I could start today. I’m going to wait until I feel better though, probably fall. Neuro emotions still an issue, that will be my indicator.

It was great catching up with you 💗

July 22, 2021

22 hours ago, Mia1 said:

We just have to remember we’re doing pretty deep trauma work and on top of that we’re going through psychiatric drug withdrawal which really affects our brain and makes everything feel so much more intense than it actually is.

Coming out of a really intense wave has reminded me of this, that there isn’t necessarily a reason why I feel or felt a certain way. Sometimes it’s just chemical.

Yes, and trying to figure out why so I can fix it just drives me (more) nuts! Err makes me more obsessive; I know I’m not nuts. Trying to use my words more carefully. 🙂

Thanks for this reminder to just accept and know I’m going through a lot and it will just feel like that sometimes.

Quote

I’m happy to hear the grounding and visualization helped you through. You have great awareness, keep it up!!

I’m happy to hear you’re feeling better, that’s fantastic!! And you’re going to start tapering, let me know how that goes. I honestly can’t wait to taper, I wish I could start today. I’m going to wait until I feel better though, probably fall. Neuro emotions still an issue, that will be my indicator.

It was great catching up with you 💗

I’m so glad you’re listening to your body and giving it time to settle. I still struggle with the whole wanting to hurry up and be done already and can feel really anxious about “being trapped/stuck” on meds for a long time. One day at a time, right? I feel like I’ve been waiting to start tapering again for ages, interspersed with a few actual med decreases…and while that is kind of accurate, it doesn’t really matter, right? It’s more about the growth and taking good care of the body and nervous system. So I’ll be off of them one day when the time has come. Just keep on doing the work and being gentle with ourselves. ❤️

July 22, 2021

3 hours ago, KittenLePurr said:

I’m so glad you’re listening to your body and giving it time to settle. I still struggle with the whole wanting to hurry up and be done already and can feel really anxious about “being trapped/stuck” on meds for a long time. One day at a time, right? I feel like I’ve been waiting to start tapering again for ages, interspersed with a few actual med decreases…and while that is kind of accurate, it doesn’t really matter, right? It’s more about the growth and taking good care of the body and nervous system. So I’ll be off of them one day when the time has come. Just keep on doing the work and being gentle with ourselves. ❤️

I feel the same way, like there’s this urgency to be off the meds. Which is funny because I was on them for 20 years. So yes, being gentle and learning to enjoy the journey is the best thing we can do for ourselves. 💗💪

July 23, 2021

22 hours ago, Mia1 said:

I feel the same way, like there’s this urgency to be off the meds. Which is funny because I was on them for 20 years. So yes, being gentle and learning to enjoy the journey is the best thing we can do for ourselves. 💗💪

That is funny, isn't it? Like there's a big rush. I do look forward to the day I don't have to rely on the medical system for anything and my system is clean and pure but all in good time.

I had a really interesting experience just now. I realized I barely have any work to do until an easy task on Tuesday and I could use these few days to just relax and focus on my health, so I decided to cut my Celexa this morning. While I was doing the math and preparing the dilution, I got anxious but still felt it was the right thing, so I did a 10% decrease, down to 11.5mg.

Within the next half hour or so, I was kind of in a bad mood. I tried to just focus on what I was doing and went on with my day, just being grumpy and wanting to not do anything. Whatever. I did my workout, took my shower, went about my business.

But I hadn't totally surrendered. Because eventually, it really grew intense. Suddenly I had a queasy stomach, agitation, lethargy and a swirl of anxiety and derealization and was starting to panic. My inner little girl was like, "If it's this bad now, just think how horrible it's going to be tomorrow and the next day!!" and then I realized what was happening. I was like, "Wait a second...I've forgotten to take my meds until the afternoon in the past and been completely fine; today, I cut my dose and went into withdrawal immediately? Yeah, no. This is just my mind screwing with me!" And I surrendered. Like, "OK, I hear you. And you are OK. I am not my thoughts." And it lessened by like 95%.

I still have a slightly uneasy stomach and I'm not like glowing with joy or excitement but I feel SO much better! My thoughts were just suffering at the thought of suffering, being anxious about being anxious and it created the experience of panic and derealization. The mind is POWERFUL!

I do have some concern about getting the dosage just right. It takes me so long and is such a headache to do the math, I made it simpler on myself and got as close as I could, going from 12.8mg to about 11.5 instead of exactly 11.52. Is that a huge deal? .02mg?

July 23, 2021

I have the perfect story that illustrates your point. I forgot to take BOTH my Klonopin doses yesterday. I take.25 mg 2 X day.

About mid afternoon I started experiencing intense dp/dr and thought that’s interesting. Went on with my day and kept focusing off my symptoms. By early evening I had so much brain activity I couldn’t have a clear thought and starting having anxious thoughts. I felt terror at one point. Again, I stepped back and thought I’m fine, whatever happens I’m always fine. I felt peace and enjoyed my evening.

As I was getting ready for bed I happened to mention to my husband my akathisia was really flaring up and had a restful plan in place in case I couldn’t sleep. At that point he asked if I took my Klonopin and I realized I hadn’t. I went to bed last night only having taken half my daily dose. I slept fine despite having some w/d from that.

So YES our minds are very powerful. If you think there’s a problem then there’s a problem. If you don’t then there’s no problem. This is how we create our reality. Although it took me a long time and a lot of work to get here.

I’m so happy you feel well enough to decrease, and have no doubt that you will be great!! I’m not good with the math part of this journey, my husband does all my cuts. I would run everything by Gridley.

Keep me posted, thanks for sharing❤️

KittenLePurr: Tapering Celexa to End a Long, Sordid History with Toxicants (Especially Psych Meds)

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