Oaktree1: tapering from Remeron while dealing with Cymbalta withdrawal

[Oaktree1]

22 hours ago, arbor said:

You were smart to get another opinion. 

Hi Arbor,

 

Haha - I got 'loads' of opinions over the past few years - hope this one is correct.  Got myself a nice new pair of walking shoes today anyway that are waterproof with some hikes in mind.  Thanks for commenting and I hope that things are improving for you health and withdrawal wise.

 

Oaktree1

[arbor]

Thank you @Oaktree1--yes, I'm doing better, very much on the wave/window trajectory, with ultimately steady improvement.  

19 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

Got myself a nice new pair of walking shoes

Sounds terrific.  Some days it's hard to walk.  Too wet, too hot, whatever.  But my boots do help in getting me out there.  I remind myself that for me a walk is likely to improve things.  And if nothing else, I don't feel guilty for putting it off--

Hugs to you,

Arbor

[Greatful]

@Oaktree1  

 It makes a difference to have this site as I've no one else to say it to apart from here.

 Boy you can say that again....No madder how hard I try to explain how one feels when going through this, no one is going to even come close to grasping the amount of pain this causes unless you have or are going through it. 

 

Then the never ending up and downs....Just a few days ago I had a wonderful sense of me and felt some joy and happiness.  Now today I am struggling with an overwhelming feeling of chaos in my body and mind.  The thoughts of I can't do this anymore.....I know that this will pass..... but it is so hard not to panic and get caught up in the mind games....If one learns anything with this..... is that you will get through this...You just have to let the day go by and detach yourself as much as you can from your symptoms and thoughts.  But who gets this but you and I and all the other ones tromping along....  

 

You will put a big 0 at the end of your signature one day....I am going to be fighting along side of you!

[redkite]

Hi Oaktree, I have not been able to use my lap top for a couple of weeks but its ok now!!!!! Its great news about your hips if that right. I have one hip replacement and the other needs doing which is depressing all on its own without the agony of tapering!!! I have  had a really rough couple of weeks made worse by the lack of the internet and being able to share with others what's going on!!! The accommodation thing is a bastard. I have had issues the last couple of weeks and feeling scared all the time is truly horrendous. I hope you can enjoy the walks round you. I struggle to walk very fare but a lot of the is lethargy!!! I have missed messaging you and not being able to research the problems I have in my life so although I slagged the internet off without it I am  worse!!!!  You say your going to up your cuts that's very very brave. I feel like Grateful does at the moment about how long I can do this, and although I will not kill myself I do feel like what is the point when I feel so little joy and so much pain, anxiety, worry, lethargy and waking in the night feeling like I am having some sort of fit!!!!   I hope the vertigo has suppsided and you can enjoy the warmer weather. I have Been out getting wood and trying to get legal advice on the current problem!!!!!!  But I really need to get out into nature much much more. Life Just feels like one unmanageable problem after another at the moment. However I did some spells on trying to get me some strength and support and is had worked a bit!!!!! I go to the local Methodist church for a free cuppa and a shoulder and they have been, and are, amazing . I also have just got a new counsellor who understands tapering completely, is a cheep student learning and seems to offer some hope of me being able to help me gather resilience.. which is essential in order for me to move forward and deal with all the **** that's flying around!!!!!! My little rescue cat is better.....thankyou and I saw that I have two hibernating hedgehogs in the garden which is ace........ I am going to try to not use any u tube video's this month in order that I dont not run out of the internet as I only have limited usage due to being poor!!!!!! It sounds like you have a lovely garden to be in and I find working outside is very therapeutic and helps put things into perspective. I wish I had a couple of acres as there is a little black pony that i would like to rescue but I cannot afford the vets bills on a horse!!!!! As you say the cats bills are huge already!!! Ok I am going to go now. speak soon and take care of yourself redkite

 

 

 

[Oaktree1]

Hi Redkite

 

Thanks for your post.  I am glad you found a new counsellor - I hope she can help you with the withdrawal.

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

I go to the local Methodist church for a free cuppa and a shoulder and they have been, and are, amazing .

Yes - I like Methodists a lot - really appreciate their origin of that branch of Protestantism - very inclusive and kind to people who are shall be say not at the top of the social pecking order or whatever.  It is good that you have somewhere to go where people are kind to you.  It is so important. 

 

I went to a local peer support group a while ago but I started to cry in the meeting (because my circumstances now are now great) and I felt I had let my guard down so didn't go again.  I have had bad experiences a peer support group in the past so am very wary now.  I am very worried about my mother whose health is very poor and I don't really have any support except one other sibling - if things are really bad I let the sibling know by mail or phone but it is not a really close bond so it would be rare enough that I'd contact her.  The hospital near us is dire (massive waiting lists) and I've been there before with her a few years ago when it was still dire but now it's frightening awful with well over a hundred people on trolleys and already a few cases of people who died there having not been seen to on time or misdiagnosed.  I trained in First Aid a few years ago with a view to being prepared but it's only a salve really.  I am not a doctor.  

 

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

The accommodation thing is a bastard. I have had issues the last couple of weeks and feeling scared all the time is truly horrendous. I hope you can enjoy the walks round you. I struggle to walk very fare but a lot of the is lethargy!!!

Yes - I went for a walk yesterday early.  I understand about feeling scared all the time - it's not great really. 

 

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

My little rescue cat is better.....thankyou and I saw that I have two hibernating hedgehogs in the garden which is ace........

 

Thank goodness your cat is better - I love hedgehogs - haven't seen one in years!!!  We had one once - to have two is wonderful.

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

It sounds like you have a lovely garden to be in and I find working outside is very therapeutic and helps put things into perspective.

Yes it is lovely - I put down the second of three dwarf apple trees the other day and drove in a six foot pole with a sledgehammer - am proud of myself but it will be sold in the next year or so so everything looks fragile now. There's a lot of work to do.

 

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

However I did some spells on trying to get me some strength and support and is had worked a bit!!!!!

I am glad to hear that they helped you a bit.  

 

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

feel like Grateful does at the moment about how long I can do this, and although I will not kill myself I do feel like what is the point when I feel so little joy and so much pain, anxiety, worry, lethargy and waking in the night feeling like I am having some sort of fit!!!!   I

I often feel like that... it's hard - you just keep on keeping on.  At least I am sleeping better at the moment.  Stopping looking at screens two hours before bed really helps I find.

On 2/6/2024 at 3:59 PM, redkite said:

wish I had a couple of acres as there is a little black pony that i would like to rescue but I cannot afford the vets bills on a horse!!!!! As you say the cats bills are huge already!!!

yes!  I was filing my stuff away the last few days - the amount of money I spent on cat bills in the last few months ...well it's one of the reasons why I didn't get another cat mainly...that and not knowing where I'll be living.

 

I am glad you are getting to work outside - it does help hugely - the weather was so dire here this week I couldn't get out most of the week - think i'll go out anyway tomorrow

 

Oaktree1

[Oaktree1]

Quick Update:

Three days ago, eczema returned.  I was on day 9 of my recent cuts.  My scalp reacted to shampoo E45 that I had been using with no issues for a year and a half and I started reacting to wool.  Itch everywhere.  This morning I had a bath with bread soda and washed my hair with Aloe Vera gel which removed most of the itch.  I started to take 2 quercetin tablets as opposed to one and took some digestive enzymes.  I am 11 days into the cut and am holding for a few more days. 

 

From the introductory paragraphs on the site it appears that I am doing a micro taper.  Since I started tapering two and a half years ago, I am reducing on average 2.8% per month (including holds).   I can't really go any faster given than that given the withdrawal and existing mental health issues and other life stressors.  Rhiannon's topic has proved helpful in that regard.  

 

Last week I attempted the ketogenic diet following the positive results with protracted mental health problems reported by psychiatrist Chris Palmer.  However the existing issues I had with constipation which were there even before I started Mirt kicked in after a few days and in response to the lack of fibre everything 'shut down' so I gave it up.  I couldn't see any way around it - all high fibre foods are high in carbohydrate and I need to eat them for my GI tract to function at all even with adding in exercise and lots of water and laxatives.

 

 Mirt's histamine interference is responsible for ALL of my food issues.  I now react to bananas (gave up completely), fermented foods (soy sauce and Worcester sauce, miso), too many tomatoes (tinned), any alcohol even half a glass of wine, anchovies (also fermented), and for some reason even though they are not histamine rich - eggs.  I know I have a reaction to these foods because I get a migraine like clockwork if I eat any of them.  At Xmas I had a glass of wine - within an hour my hands were suddenly itchy and sore.  I had NO ISSUES EVER  eating these foods or drinking alcohol before I started on Mirt and Cymbalta.  That is the worst thing that this drug did in my opinion.  I enjoyed a drink and I liked ethnic food.  Now I can't eat  Sushi or Chinese food at all.  I can get away with Indian - that's it.  I don't think I'll ever be able to have a drink again.  Maybe it's for the best given my other personality issues but it's still a loss.  

 

I would prefer not to do these updates as it sounds like I am whining but I think it is necessary to document the damage caused by these drugs.  I may have mental health issues but I NEVER had any dietary issues or skin issues before being put on them.

 

 

 

 

 

[redkite]

Hi Oaktree, thanks for the lovely reply. You write with such consideration, tact and warmth as well as a genuine interest in us on here!! It must be a big burden to have to carry with the poor health of your mother especially as you do it primarily alone. I wish I could give you a shoulder to cry on. I will try to do it online and channel some peace your way.  Dwarf apples!!!! I have just put in two to!!! and a mini fig. It shows strength of character that you are doing the garden whilst being in the shadow of possible loosing your home but you never know what may happen things often take unexpected turns!!!!! The itching had driven me to distraction also in the past and the fact that we were NEVER told about any of this prior to our prescription is a disgrace. I am with you with the alcohol I cant drink at all now which is boring to say the least..... I LOVE a proper single malt...indeed I like to obsess about moving to the outer Hebrides ware property is cheep whilst I used to sip!!!!!! Want away from all the ****....stupid neighbours all around..... out their no noise!!!!!   Indeed today I freaked out at the cutting neighbour again!!!!!  He cut down some baby fox gloves, feverfew and grape hyacinth in the little ally behind my houses.... he is such a d*ck head!!!  The weather here is wet again!!!! Hope you got out for a nice walk and yes my counsellor does appear to be amazing, which is great, especially has she is a student. Today I went to see a mate who had moved, couldn't find her she didn't answer the phone and I got a puncture!!!!! So was panicking all the way their and back that the tyre would flatten..... It didn't!!!!  Seem to spend my whole life lurching from one ******* crises to another!!! Drove home and my friend then rang to say she saw the missed call,  ( she has five kids, on her own, works and is doing a masters on counselling< puts me to shame!!) complete waste of petrol!!! Got a fire going now and candles so I will get back into my head. Bizarrely some bloke I used to know mushroomed up with tails of fixing the water!!!! But I struggle to trust men know and so bailed!!!  Ok I reckon that's it, over and out. My little cat sends you a little head rub and chirrup!!!!  Take care of yourself and get out as much as you can and I will do the same.  Redkite

 

[Oaktree1]

Update: itch started to go two days ago roughly and is now in remission more or less.  It is 13 days after the cut.  Having nightmares every night and very tight through neck and shoulders when I wake up.  Sleep started to improve three days ago in that I can go to sleep and sleep most of night but with nightmares.  I hope to reply to Redkite and Greatful but at the mo' this quick is all I am able for currently.  trying to stick to withdrawal related symptoms - I notice that I repeat myself a lot on my thread about life stressor stories - ear worms I think they call it

[Oaktree1]

On 2/5/2024 at 3:08 PM, Greatful said:

Then the never ending up and downs....Just a few days ago I had a wonderful sense of me and felt some joy and happiness.  Now today I am struggling with an overwhelming feeling of chaos in my body and mind.  The thoughts of I can't do this anymore.....I know that this will pass..... but it is so hard not to panic and get caught up in the mind games....If one learns anything with this..... is that you will get through this...You just have to let the day go by and detach yourself as much as you can from your symptoms and thoughts.  But who gets this but you and I and all the other ones tromping along....  

 

Hi @Greatful

 

I think of anyone that I have read here, you more than anyone can encapsulate what it is like to go through this.   I never heard that word before 'tromping' - trudging alone.  I feel like that in my body - that I am trudging/tromping.  Detaching is hard and sometimes when life stressors kick in, it is a lot harder.  I relate to the overwhelming chaos feeling in my mind and the need to escape.  It is good that you had actually felt a sense of joy and happiness even for a few moments - that is a good sign.

Oaktree1

[Oaktree1]

23 hours ago, redkite said:

It shows strength of character that you are doing the garden whilst being in the shadow of possible loosing your home but you never know what may happen things often take unexpected turns!!!!! The itching had driven me to distraction also in the past and the fact that we were NEVER told about any of this prior to our prescription is a disgrace. I am with you with the alcohol I cant drink at all now which is boring to say the least..... I LOVE a proper single malt...indeed I like to obsess about moving to the outer Hebrides ware property is cheep whilst I used to sip!!!!!!

Hi Redkite,

 

I only ever had Oban which I will never forget the taste of - mainly when I drank I liked blended whiskey (cheaper) - although I used to drink Bells when I was in the UK - yes  - I have dreams of living somewhere away from everyone else as long as I had electricity haha.

 

23 hours ago, redkite said:

Dwarf apples!!!! I have just put in two to!!! and a mini fig. It shows strength of character that you are doing the garden whilst being in the shadow of possible loosing your home but you never know what may happen things often take unexpected turns!!!!!

I would love a mini fig but too cold and wet here for that; I hope your dwarf trees do well this summer - I know that things won't take a turn unfortunately.  Couldn't get out again today - too wet.  Weather is dire here.  A walk was as much as I could get.

 

23 hours ago, redkite said:

Want away from all the ****....stupid neighbours all around..... out their no noise!!!!!   Indeed today I freaked out at the cutting neighbour again!!!!!  He cut down some baby fox gloves, feverfew and grape hyacinth in the little ally behind my houses.... he is such a d*ck head!!!  The weather here is wet again!!!! Hope you got out for a nice walk

Well yes - weather is wet where I am nearly all the time now - I always hated February - worst month of the year - dreary, dank, wet dark.  I hope you scared the neighbour properly - why would someone cut down flowers?  What sort of mind does he have?  I bought some feverfew last September and it is doing quite well - a lot of the herbs I put down last September died though.   At least though you do have a place of your own and don't have to live in the same house with people you don't get on with - trying to put the positive out there.

 

23 hours ago, redkite said:

Today I went to see a mate who had moved, couldn't find her she didn't answer the phone and I got a puncture!!!!! So was panicking all the way their and back that the tyre would flatten..... It didn't!!!!  Seem to spend my whole life lurching from one ******* crises to another!!! Drove home and my friend then rang to say she saw the missed call,  ( she has five kids, on her own, works and is doing a masters on counselling< puts me to shame!!) complete waste of petrol!!!

Punctures are a pain - thankfully you made it back without the tyre flattening - I feel like that at the mo' about crisis lurching - on the bright side you have a few mates - that is great and it is great that you have a good counsellor (hard to find a good one I have found).  Your friend sounds luckier than you were - she probably escaped being stuck on those drugs and having her health damaged.  I envy her having five kids though - must be nice to have kids of your own although a lot of work - not everyone would be able for it.

 

Thanks for the headrub from your cat -  look after yourself too and enjoy your fire.

 

Oaktree1

[littlebird]

On 2/13/2024 at 11:05 AM, redkite said:

Indeed today I freaked out at the cutting neighbour again!!!!!  He cut down some baby fox gloves, feverfew and grape hyacinth in the little ally behind my houses.... he is such a d*ck head!!!

Ugggggh I have a neighbor like this in my life too... SO frustrating!!! Really gets me steamed - especially when tapering has my emotions a little closer to the surface than usual. Can't wait to move and have my own garden space no one can mess with!

[redkite]

OH Oaktree your having such a hard time, it is so unfair, I feel for you. The cuts are a killer I have had to stop at 10.50 as I just found it life threatening to continue dropping further but once spring comes I aim to do 10.25 then 10. Please don't feel under pressure to reply, ever, when you feel down I understand completey the pressure of having " to do" positive and yes my dodgy little flat with its  garden ( that was a car park..... I did adverse possession and claimed it all) although it has problems they are only mine and it must be wearing beyond believe to live with people who argue all the time, it must be like a dripping tap.....waiting for the next drip/argument and must be contributing to your health in a damaging way. Horrid for you really horrid but you keep going putting one foot in front of the other and that is all that matters really. we are all moving towards a day when the drugs are gone....gone gone gone! And one day you may have your own place ware you can potter around and shout or cry or laugh at your will without the negative influence of others. Bravely you are doing all you can to keep moving forward even when the pain is unbearable, that takes some real guts. I will light a little candle for you tonight and send some magic and like I said no pressure to respond at all. I will keep  checking in on you irrespective of your replies. Thinking of you Redkite

[Oaktree1]

On 2/15/2024 at 5:22 PM, redkite said:

On 2/15/2024 at 5:22 PM, redkite said:

And one day you may have your own place ware you can potter around and shout or cry or laugh at your will without the negative influence of others. Bravely you are doing all you can to keep moving forward even when the pain is unbearable, that takes some real guts. I will light a little candle for you tonight and send some magic and like I said no pressure to respond at all.

I understand completey the pressure of having " to do" positive and yes my dodgy little flat with its  garden ( that was a car park..... I did adverse possession and claimed it all) although it has problems they are only mine

Hi Redkite

 

Thanks very much for your very kind post in the past few days - it meant a lot.  That is fascinating about how you got the garden by adverse possession - I presume it was tarmacked?  Is the flat adverse possession too?   I love the concept of adverse possession -  one of the few legal concepts that makes sense to me.  Thanks very much for lighting a candle and sending some positive vibes my way - that means a lot.

 

On 2/15/2024 at 5:22 PM, redkite said:

it must be like a dripping tap.....waiting for the next drip/argument and must be contributing to your health in a damaging way. Horrid for you really horrid but you keep going putting one foot in front of the other and that is all that matters really.

Well they don't really speak to each other that much but the atmosphere is pretty awful and there are a pretty awful argument a few weeks back which I was quite winded after but it's past now and there's a weirdness to living in something toxic that becomes normalised.  We are strange creatures humans.  One foot in front of the other as you say...that's the only way. I'm not great on my own though, though I've never had a place of my own.  With the way it is here house prices keep on rising...who knows.

 

On 2/15/2024 at 5:22 PM, redkite said:

The cuts are a killer I have had to stop at 10.50 as I just found it life threatening to continue dropping further but once spring comes I aim to do 10.25 then 10

Yeh - they can be literally life threatening if you cut too much or even worse go cold turkey but you've learnt that the hard way now and are going to go slow.  I really like the micro taper - super slow but at least making tiny bits of progress; tiny steps rather than big ones.  The 3% cut you're making is close to what I'm doing.   After what happened when I went cold turkey back in 2014 ....it was BAD..... and then when I tapered Cymbalta too fast in 2018 that was really bad.  If I had joined this site at the time I was tapering Cymbalta and actually read the protocols it might not have been as bad. 

 

I got off the drug in 8 months - i was cutting beads every 2 to 3 days - madness!  I was on this supplement 'outreach programme' reducing every two weeks and paying big money for these really expensive herbal supplements which I would say made me more agitated.  I'm not going to make a similar mistake again no matter how long it takes - I might die of natural causes before tapering is finished but I have to accept that because it's better than going into meltdown again with withdrawal.

 

I hope your neighbours are behaving themselves. 

 

Oaktree1

 

 

[Oaktree1]

Update: I am now in the 1's since last week and will make another micro cut tonight.  No eczema for a week thankfully although it will probably return now I've written that.

 

No problem going to sleep but severe nightmares most nights.  One headache that comes from scrunched up neck and shoulders from bruxism when sleeping.  Weather appalling - cooking and baking to distract.  Rumination only goes away while doing tai chi though.  I try to practice most days.  Family member's health is declining rapidly and I don't have much support so that can be difficult.

 

Heard some medical consultant on a news show pontificating about multi disciplinary teams, the 'disease' of obesity and putting 13 year kids on Ozempic.  The more I hear from doctors particularly consultants now the more I want to throw my phone/radio against a hard wall.  It will be interesting (not that I'll be there) in the next few decades to see the results of Big Pharma's new monster on human health.  For now they briefly rattle off that 'there are some side effects'.  Here's my own tuppence worth as a result of having my  health badly damaged by medical drugs.  I don't think there is any such thing as a free lunch and I don't think that a slim body can be  achieved by drugs without significant damage to health.  In the 50's it was common for doctors to prescribe dexedrine  (speed) to kill appetite and aid weight loss.  The long term use of that drug caused damage to dopaminergic nerve terminals which led to chronic depression.  Cue anti depressants to 'fix' that problem and most on this site know where that led.  I have little doubt that this 'miracle' drug will lead people down that old iatrogenic lane too.

 

I attended for a mental health review last week so I can keep my payment.   Hadn't been there in over a year because it's so  dispiriting.  You are kept waiting a long time and then you meet someone in training you'll only meet at most twice.  It's pointless.  They know it's pointless too.  Still it's lip service that needs to be attended to.  The reality is that I don't think I am capable of work, not full time work anyway.  I think the drugs I was put on in addition to other factors have led to that.  Practicing acceptance and commitment and have had to return to therapy by phone to have someone else to talk to.

 

The micro taper is a great idea if you are coming off drugs with little support I find.  Even doing a small cut gives me a feeling of agency and rebellion against 'the man' and all the other oppressive forces in this world.  I have accepted that it will take a few more years.  The world could end tomorrow or soon given the state of things but I'll just carry on anyway until it does.  It gives me hope to know that even if we are wiped out as species the planet will renew itself in another few million years and all the lovely natural world and invertebrate animals will come back - I do hope that humans don't replicate  themselves though.  When I hear about Musk torturing monkeys so he can plant computer chips in human brains, I think it is a good thing we are approaching our own Armageddon.  

[Oaktree1]

UPDATE:  Had wine the last few nights due to stressful circumstances.  Have to reiterate along with the protocol here that it was a mistake.  It's hard sometimes to deny oneself alcohol so I slipped.   Today not feeling great...it's not worth it.  I think the mods have reiterated the no alcohol rule a lot.  Sometimes i really miss a drink though.  Anyway not too bad so back on the wagon now.

 

Thankfully was able to wash hair again with E45 so allergies gone a bit

[redkite]

Hi Oaktree, wine!!!! Yes I really want to drink!!! It was my birthday a while back and I just couldn't risk it. Sorry about slow reply bloody data keeps going on this lap top....grrr...!! No I only did adverse position on the bit of car park ( gravel) that belonged to someone else!!!! The flats are mine. I turned two little bedsits into one little home!!! Fridge mended itself!!!! Struggling with all over body pain and dizziness today.....fells like I am getting covid again.... I hope not!!! Nearly killed me last time!!!!! Its great you do cookery to let go. I made a woodland mushroom masala a few days ago and it was amazing. Wild garlic out here now.....great with mushrooms. Please ignore spelling mistakes laptop on go slow!!!!! The stupid neighbours have there own massive problems now....what goes around comes around!!!!!! I think that may have been at all the bottom of all the  boundary affirming with the trees cutting, trying to build up there defences!!!!! Dickheads!!! It sounds to me like you try everyday to keep moving in the right direction which is all we can do really and yes the wonder slimming drug is very de jar vio!!!!! If that's how you spell it!!! I am going to keep my lap top use to a minimum so that I can check in here more. Hold on for the spring its just round the corner and then we can sit outdid reading lovely books and soaking up the rays I LOVE THE SUNSHINE, and it is actually trying to come out as I type, hurrah!!!! Lots of lovely grape hysienth out looking lush, and tulips and mini daffs and wild strawberry's and the rosemary is flowering so it feels like we are on the cusp now... just got to hold on. I want to do a little cut but I am so scared as its already really hard all the time but ultimatly I want of this stuff. Hope the weather has picked up a bit your end. Take care and keep on cooking. Redkite

[Oaktree1]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, redkite said:

I think that may have been at all the bottom of all the  boundary affirming with the trees cutting, trying to build up there defences!!!!! Dickheads!!! It

Hi Redkite,

 

hahaha - I laughed out loud at this.  What is up for them? 

 

Were you able to dig up the gravel?

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, redkite said:

The flats are mine. I turned two little bedsits into one little home!!! Fridge mended itself!!!!

Sometimes fate smiles on us - it is fantastic to own something outright and the fridge must have taken pity on you.

 

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, redkite said:

Struggling with all over body pain and dizziness today.....fells like I am getting covid again.... I hope not!!! Nearly killed me last time!!!!!

That is the pits - I had it bad (body pain) three days last week and then one afternoon I just said to myself I am going out gardening anyway and ignored it.  It calmed down.  Dizziness is harder to control though.  I used to do inner ear balance exercises when I got it badly in 2022 when I got Covid.  I hope it wasn't Covid although it seems to be on the war path again.

 

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, redkite said:

I made a woodland mushroom masala a few days ago and it was amazing. Wild garlic out here now.....great with mushrooms.

Yes - I love mushrooms and garlic together.  It must be pretty rural  where you are if there are so many wild things growing there and you can forage.  there's not much in the way of wild mushrooms here - the fertiliser farmers put on the fields kills anything except grass.

 

I put the quote in the wrong place again it's below.  Are these all in your garden?  My mother loves the grape hyacinths but very few came up and tulips are up but still haven't bloomed yet - they are getting there.  I put daffodils down the drive in December and they made it up - I am waiting for them to bloom too - check them most days.  We used to have wild strawberries but they all died off years ago.  I am debating whether to put forget me nots in a shady part of the herbaceous border because I don't like the geranium (cranesbill) that is in there now - it's like a carpet.

 

I moved the tree ferns to a nearly field in the shade but i am afraid that it was too late for them - the gardener that had been hired a few years ago put them in the hottest part of the garden - I moved them against the shade of the wall but they never recovered - I went out there last week and most of them are dead. I get very upset when plants die.  I apologised to them - yes I'm nuts. 

 

However on the bright side I dug up lavender plants that were failing to thrive and they were pot bound - very badly - they are in buckets now and I am loosening the roots - I hope they live.  Also planted a bramley apple tree last week to replace the beautiful one that toppled over in December that has been there since I was a child - huge loss - and a lot of memories associated it as my ginger cat loved to climb it as his party piece and to act as a look out when he heard something on the road.

 

You get more sunshine over there in the UK - I love the sunshine too - it makes all my body aches go away completely - hot weather.  Hold on I suppose is all we can do ....although I confess the last two weeks have been exceptionally hard and I do struggle to hold on and wonder about whether I should do so because I don't know if I can survive living in this world drugs or no drugs because I've no investment in it - no job, friends etc.  The only times I feel halfway at peace is when I am outside in nature in the garden or elsewhere preferably far away from people.  There's a place near me with lots of mature trees (used to be an estate) and there's a quiet place there with a huge monkey puzzle tree over a 100 feet high by the river and a little one has seeded itself there beside it - loads of ferns by the river bank - and a toppled over Redwood lying on the ground - love that place.   

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, redkite said:

I want to do a little cut but I am so scared as its already really hard all the time but ultimatly I want of this stuff. H

When am i going to get the hang of the quotes?  I suppose it depends on how long you are holding.  I would take a look at all the paroxetine success stories and study them to find clues.  I was on that drug myself back in the day and I was cold turkeyed off it in hospital.  Altostrata was on it too - it's a tough one to get off.  I would do the micro taper you were suggesting a few posts ago and maybe try for a 2% but if you are really struggling...I don't know... might not be good. 

 

For me it's like this: - if I can't sleep at all and am struggling to do basic tasks and have severe SI - then I hold until I can sleep six hours or more per night and can do stuff even with pain.  It's frustrating - I accepted some time ago it was going to take years to get off this stuff and to go as slow as I could so that I could function.  Only you know what you can know though.

 

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, redkite said:

I LOVE THE SUNSHINE, and it is actually trying to come out as I type, hurrah!!!! Lots of lovely grape hysienth out looking lush, and tulips and mini daffs and wild strawberry's and the rosemary is flowering so it feels like we are on the cusp now... just got to hold on. I want to do a little cut but I am so scared as its already really hard all the time but ultimatly I want of this stuff.

 

 

As you can see Redkite quote in the wrong place again and I can't move it back.  Just keep on keeping on and you'll know yourself when you're up to it - trust your gut.

 

More generally, I suppose I better do an update re my taper - eczema in remission completely touch wood; sleep relatively good but dreadful nightmares - pretty much constantly anhedonic except for contact with nature and looking at Youtube videos with Steven Bartlett (there is a wonderful recent one with Stephen Fry who is a real darling) and my new find of the week via Andrew Gold's podcast- Dr Iain Gilchrist - the psychiatrist who was once an don of English Lit.  When I finish Robert Greene's 'Human Nature' which confirmed my poor opinion of humanity in general and where I found out that I am a 'cynic' who is frightened of trying anything - Dr Gilchrist's book 'The Master and his Emissary' is next on the list.  I can't tolerate fiction anymore and can only stomach these sorts of 'what has gone wrong' books now.  I splurged on Mark Horowitz's 'Deprescribing Guildelines which arrived yesterday.  It a serious medical tome and I'm a bit lost trying to work out some of the terminology but will persist when my brain is up to it.

 

Oaktree1

[redkite]

Hi Oak tree nice to hear from you. Yes neighbours stuck up daughter had had a mighty fall in status and I am loving it!!!!! My garden is big gravel but rewilded itself with my help over the last 25 years and now is ace. Ponds, compost heaps, trees, 150 pots, hedgehogs houses, resident  toad ect. lots of wild flowers I put in and some that just arrived including the grape hyacinths!!!!! The woodland mushrooms came from the bad lands that is Morrisons!!!!!!!!!!! Reduced to a quid!!!! Just ate some more...... again!!!! Love all the ferns by the river too. My best mate who died ( love of my life) used to live by the river and their is a lovely woodland fallen tree spot ware I remember him...... He was crazy, artistic, beautiful and very difficult!!!!! bit like me!!!!! You say you are not invested in the world but the stuff you do outside in the garden says different. I feel the same... as soon as I go outside I am better its amazing.  Believe me work is over rated as our friends so do not beet yourself up on that score as they are often both a bitter disappointment!!!  Also you do have friends on here.... I am your friend and often think about you. The other day on the radio they were talking about how Jays are responsible for 35 % of the Oaktree's growing as they hide acorns in the ground but forget were they are!!!! When I heard this I thought of you straight away and wanted to tell you...... that's what friends do..... isn't it?   Thanks for the heads up on the paroxetine success stories glad to hear there are some and will research this week. I am going to cut the extra bit I take first and then get liquid of the DR!!!!!! ******* DR who started all this 10 years ago. You say you feel peace outside, its is the healing nature that is working so let it heal you and keep going outside as much as you can. I often just go out with a cuppa and look to see what nature is up to and will ALWAYS feel better for it. Dont be down on yourself and enjoy the garden. take care Redkite

[Carmie]

Hi Oaktree,

 

Thanks for popping over to my thread. Hope you’re coping okay 💛

[Oaktree1]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:21 PM, redkite said:

My garden is big gravel but rewilded itself with my help over the last 25 years and now is ace. Ponds, compost heaps, trees, 150 pots, hedgehogs houses, resident  toad ect. lots of wild flowers I put in and some that just arrived including the grape hyacinths!!!!! The woodland mushrooms came from the bad lands that is Morrisons!!!!!!!!!!! Reduced to a quid!!!! Just ate some more...... again!!!! Love all the ferns by the river too. My best mate who died ( love of my life) used to live by the river and their is a lovely woodland fallen tree spot ware I remember him...... He was crazy, artistic, beautiful and very difficult!!!!! bit like me!!!!! You say you are not invested in the world but the stuff you do outside in the garden says different. I feel the same... as soon as I go outside I am better its amazing

Hi Redkite,

 

Sorry about late reply to thread but not engaging here now most of the time.  I get scared when people say that they are my friend because it triggers abandonment issues and then I run off.   I am kind of like an open wound of rejection most of the time.  If someone engages with me it triggers fears of the wound being re-opened.   

 

I love the description above of your late friend and the relationship you had with him.  It is dreadful to lose someone who is a soulmate.  My last friend who was not a friend really was in my childhood - we spent six years of our childhood together - walking in the fields and beside the river and swimming in the river.  I think the only thing we had in common was that she loved nature like me but then she turned on me when puberty hit (I don't think she ever really liked me really) and discarded me having bullied me for a few years.  Whenever I walk in certain parts I remember her and the time we spent together and even after years it still hurts.  I can't really express how bad that relationship loss was because she was the only person I felt comfortable with bar the nanny because I had no relationship with either of my parents who were too wrapped up in themselves.  When she turned on me I never really recovered.

 

I love the description of your garden anyway.

 

On 3/13/2024 at 4:21 PM, redkite said:

The other day on the radio they were talking about how Jays are responsible for 35 % of the Oaktree's growing as they hide acorns in the ground but forget were they are!!!!

I love this sentence as Jays are one of my favourite birds.  The visit from the nearby mashy fields where there are lots of river reeds and sally trees.  I love to see one generally they come in the morning early because they are so shy.  

 

Update:  not really going to write much - feel very disillusioned with the whole thing - even tapering.  I am down to 1.77mg - five days in.  Sleep is very poor.  Two days ago I got the worst body aches I've ever had - literally my whole body was in spasm and ached, my arms, elbows, shoulders - even the soles of my feet.  I had a massage yesterday but it doesn't seem to have helped. 

I have had no resurgence of eczema to date.  I have not had a migraine in some time which I put down to the fact that I changed my pillows to 80% duck feather rather than the ergonomic pillows that was putting my neck into spasm.  

 

I am not going to go into my personal and living situation much other than to write that it has gotten worse so that is not helping.  

 

I don't know if I will continue to taper longterm or not - I am undecided at present.  The worst thing is the loneliness  - I have been lonely all my life but I don't think I have ever felt as bleak as I do now about it or the possibility of connection.

 

It was good that I reconnected with a therapist as she has been able to keep me from going under completely and has been able to help me to understand finally some of the family dynamics that I could not bring myself to understand or face before.  She frequently references self compassion which I have found almost impossible to feel for myself and I am at least now aware of that.  

I just go from the day to day and try to deal with what is even though it is pretty bad.

 

I am doing this update as I have engaged with this process for nearly three years and I am not just going to let the thread go silent even though I didn't really want to post.  I think that for some - for example a clinician - they might think if they read this thread 'this person is bipolar and is being very irresponsible or misguided in going off their meds'.  I am not saying that they would be wrong.  I am ambiguous about it all now.   I would add that if I could have gotten low dose Lithium I would have tried it but I asked for it a few times and they would not prescribe it and there was no way I was going to give up my liberty and enter a psychiatric facility again after a remote engagement four years ago proved to be yet another experience of the coercive arrogance  I had experienced in my twenties. 

 

I tried Lithium Orotate that JanCarol suggested a few years back but it just zonked me out and did nothing else for my mood.  I felt weird on it.  If I had not been allergic to the Lamotrigine I would have continued to take it - I am going to admit that here.  However I am not going to take an anti convulsant or an anti psychotic that puts on two or three stone in weight - thank you but I would rather be thin, thin skinned and miserable.  If that means I am non compliant and irresponsible so be it.  At this stage in the game really it hardly matters.  I made a right old mess of my life - how that happened  - i.e. that I was born with a congenital deformity and that that coupled with an awful childhood that added up to an inability to have a decent adult life is kind of a moot point now because it's too late to do much about it.

 

I will continue to update for the present.  That is all that I can do presently.  I don't know how useful this is but I have committed to the process for the time being and there it is.

 

Oaktree1

 

[arbor]

Thank you @Oaktree1  We're all in this together.  It's good to hear from you.  Thinking of you, Arbor🌳

[Oaktree1]

Hi @Carmie and @arbor

 

Many thanks for your comments.  Arbor  I wish you luck with getting to the bottom MGUS - I hope there can be some help for you and some relief

 

 Carmie - wish you as always relief with the CFS - fair dues to you on getting the necessary legal paperwork sorted.  Some jobs are awful but must be gotten out of the way.

 

Oaktree1

[redkite]

Hold on Oaktree. Just hold on. Whether you taper or not is not the important thing here, you are. You are more important than your taper. If you can get some relief threw other meds then despite what other may say it may be worth a shot. Tapering is evil and outrageously hard, I am not even convinced its the right thing to do for everyone and I went back up a tiny bit way back last November and staid there!!!!! You do not need to explain yourself to me. I am sorry if I freaked you out with the friend thing....I suppose I clumsily wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Of course you feel awful you have continued tapering threw thick and thin and as it is not an exact science its very tricky to know when to hold, stop, go back up or even change tact. Its great you are seeing a therapist again and if you can afford it try to keep it up. I know my own mental health had taken a nose dive since I stopped. Its good you came on here to explain how you feel and talking about the pain of friendship is brave and insightful. Again apologies for being clumsy. and thanks for getting back to me it was a lovely unexpected surprise. Take care of yourself as much as you can. Redkite

[Ariel]

Dear @Oaktree1

I hope it's okay to drop you a line in your thread.

As you know I'm not on here much these days. I just wanted to stop by to let you know I'm thinking of you, I think of you often and wish you well. I so admire and respect your courage, integrity, tenacity, intelligence. Thank you for sharing as you do, it benefits us all. I hold space for what you are going through and have complete confidence in you. I haven't been able to be on here, but I do want to share that healing is happening, it's so slow and honestly often so painful and uncomfortable, and also undeniably healing is happening. I don't mean for that to sound mystical, it is very real and earthly and hard, and 99% of the time I feel lost and have no idea what's going on, and I practice accepting that and just sort of leaning in, which seems to help, at least insomuch as it alleviates some of the outer layers of struggle around the thing. I often think about you, you are such a hero to me and out of so many people here I feel bonded to you and identify with your lot in life (whether that's correct or false or pure projection/fantasy I don't know), there is so much about your existential circumstance that I can relate to. And so I just want to say, that struggle is very real, and yes, our social/external/material/cultural/economic (etc.) context matters very much and massively impacts how we experience being alive, and how we are able to navigate that experience of being alive. It can be so hard dealing with adversity from within a difficult situation, feeling like we are getting pummeled from all sides, feeling alone and isolated. How to find the heart to keep going? I am in awe of your bravery, your fighting spirit. I'm so sorry it's been so hard for so long, in so many different ways. I believe in you (and that is 100% unconditional, you don't have to reciprocate or respond or receive, no pressure in any way). I just want to express how you have touched me, how grateful I am to have met you here and how our acquaintance has profoundly enriched my life. I know this is a whole outpouring and quite sudden out of the blue after my having been away for so long, well I guess i've been saving up for a while and please forgive me for showing up like this uninvited and holding forth in all manner of unsolicited sentiment! The audacity.

What I mean to say is, I am out here practicing and working hard and healing one moment at a time, I am exploring self-compassion and self-forgiveness and recommitting myself to life over and over and over again. And I am grateful to you for doing your version of that one way or another, walking your path in your own way. I'm just glad you're here, that's all. You help me. Thank you. 

In solidarity and support,

A.