Kat66: should I reinstate or plough on drug free?

[LotusRising]

Did this happen only one time?

 

If it were me, I would contact a pharmacist. This is a very high dose. 

[Kat66]

53 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

Did this happen only one time?

 

If it were me, I would contact a pharmacist. This is a very high dose. 

@LotusRising Just the once yes. I’ve contacted someone just waiting to hear back. 
 

Thanks for responding.

[Kat66]

I've gotten over my accidental OD and am back to a newly reinstated slightly higher 0.5mg dose. I'm going to stay on this for a week or so and maybe go a bit higher if nothing happens. I just want some sort of stasis where I'm 'back on' the drug and it's having an effect, but not too high so it's a struggle to come off again, if that makes sense?

[Kat66]

I have been back on 0.5mg (from 0.0) for just over a week and still getting the same dread/agitation/shakiness/depression. Just wondering if I should updose slightly. Would it be a good idea to find a dose I could stay on for a fairly long time and if so what would SA recommend, 1, 2, 3mg, 5mg? And should I gradually go up to that dose as I would taper down?

Thanks for any advice.

[getofflex]

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I have been back on 0.5mg (from 0.0) for just over a week and still getting the same dread/agitation/shakiness/depression. Just wondering if I should updose slightly. Would it be a good idea to find a dose I could stay on for a fairly long time and if so what would SA recommend, 1, 2, 3mg, 5mg? And should I gradually go up to that dose as I would taper down?

I suggest you give it more time.  Your nervous system was probably shaken up by the accidental high dose. It could take a while to recover from that.  It's not a good idea to make frequent changes to our dosing schedule because of symptoms.  It takes at least a week for it to fully register with your brain, and it will take even more time to become fully effective.  Frequent dose changes are more likely to just further destabilize you.  It can take up to a month or two for a reinstatement/updose to be fully effective.  There will be no magic dose that will cure all of your symptoms.  Your nervous system just needs time, and more time to stabilize.  You may want to reconsider the vitamin B12, as B vitamins can be activating - perhaps lower the dose, or go off altogether.  Vitamin D can also be activating for some people.  Also, the EMDR therapy can cause further stress to your CNS, you might want to consider postponing that for the time being.  And, as we've discussed in the past, complete avoidance of alcohol is important. 

 

Please read https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24836-considerations-about-stability-stop-jumping-around/#comment-532374

 

Edited January 6 by getofflex

[Kat66]

25 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I suggest you give it more time.  Your nervous system was probably shaken up by the accidental high dose. It could take a while to recover from that.  It's not a good idea to make frequent changes to our dosing schedule because of symptoms.  It takes at least a week for it to fully register with your brain, and it will take even more time to become fully effective.  Frequent dose changes are more likely to just further destabilize you.  It can take up to a month or two for a reinstatement/updose to be fully effective.  There will be no magic dose that will cure all of your symptoms.  Your nervous system just needs time, and more time to stabilize.  You may want to reconsider the vitamin B12, as B vitamins can be activating - perhaps lower the dose, or go off altogether.  Vitamin D can also be activating for some people.  Also, the EMDR therapy can cause further stress to your CNS, you might want to consider postponing that for the time being.  And, as we've discussed in the past, complete avoidance of alcohol is important. 

 

Please read https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24836-considerations-about-stability-stop-jumping-around/#comment-532374

 

Thanks, I really want to get serious about healing now, WD's been going on since 2021. How long would you stay off B12 and D supplements? Obviously I can't control getting D through sunlight and B12 in my diet (I now eat eggs occasionally), but I'm guessing you mean just supplements? Would you still take omega 3 and magnesium if you were me? Those are the ones I take every day - B12 and D once a week with calcium and iron.

 

I'm seeing my therapist on Monday, I'll discuss the EMDR issue with her.

 

Shall I just stay at .5mg then for say 6 months then review?

 

Thanks for the advice.

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

How long would you stay off B12 and D supplements?

I wouldn't worry about deciding now how long to stay off.  Were you diagnosed with a deficiency in these?  I have avoided them for the last several years, and now take 1/2 of a multivitamin so that I only get about 100% of the RDA of vitamins B.  

 

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I'm guessing you mean just supplements?

yes.

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

Would you still take omega 3 and magnesium if you were me?

yes. 

 

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

Shall I just stay at .5mg then for say 6 months then review?

I think that would be a very good plan.  I did a 6 month hold in 2020, and it did me a world of good. 

[Kat66]

No I’ve never been diagnosed with a deficiency in those two vitamins. 
 

I’ll do a 6 month hold, good to know it worked for you.

 

Thanks again for the advice, I’m so appreciative of you and all the mods on here. 

[Greatful]

@Kat66  I feel your pain Kat.  I also hear some panic....Please take a long slow breath.  If you let the panic take over and start looking for that quick fix which we know from experience there is no quick fix when are CNS is a mess...I know I've been there and ended up on more drugs and still a mess.

Remember you changed your HRT and jumped off you Citalopram, and started EMDR. Can focus on just getting through the days right now.

I know how hard that is..  That depression really makes us think and feel so desperate.  Are you getting any sleep?

 

There are days when you may know mostly darkness—-- your mind, body and surrounded by fear.  It is difficult to believe on those days that there can be any light in your space. These are the days that you must dig down deep to find the strength that will help you to see the fears for what they are and still emerge with hope in your spirit.   There is no easy explanation for the process that you have to encounter.  But you must believe that even though you do not understand how everything is working, your healing is taking place.  As frustrating as this is for you, know that you will see the light of your healing over time.  Waiting for something is never easy, but sometimes, that’s all you can do.  Wait. Believe in your body’s ability to heal.  The darkness will not be there forever, so please hold on.

Remind yourself that it can be normal for you to experience the darkness and anxiety in withdrawal.  Try not to allow this to over shadow the strength you have inside.  Focus on being kind, gentle and loving towards yourself.

 

I take a low dose Vitamin D-3 400iu  I get the Now brand from Amazon.  How much are you taking? What time of the day do you take it?

 

Kat I know you can do this.  You've been in some pretty rough places before and you held on....Dig down deep and do whatever you can to let time pass...Do you have any positive affirmations to repeat to yourself throughout the day?  

 

Sending you extra encouragement and strength 

 

 

 

[Kat66]

Thanks Greatful, I needed that - where's that middle bit from? It's very good and reassuring.

 

You're right I have to remember I did three things all at the same time which probably wasn't the best idea - just to try to fix it all - it's made everything so much worse.

 

I was taking 1000iu of D once a week (morning) which is probably too much. 

 

Sending strength and hugs right back.

[getofflex]

21 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

just to try to fix it all - it's made everything so much worse.

 

Oh, I see this so many times.  It's so human and natural to want to try to find a fix for our WD, and unfortunately, it often makes things worse.  Please read this excellent quote from BrassMonkey, one of our long time senior staff.  Pay special attention to this line: "In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen."  

 

On 9/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, brassmonkey said:

Trusting that your body knows what needs to be done to heal and will do it naturally is one of the hardest parts of doing this. The amount of trust that we have to have is amazing and the ability to accept what happens and move through it, even if it isn't what we had planned, is equally so. We have all been taught to think things  through and do what we think is best, but sometimes our logic gets the best of us. We can think too much and see too many sides of the coin.

 

To me ADWD is proof that nature is in control despite what we think. In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen. We may want a specific outcome by next weekend, but the choice isn't ours. If our body wants to heal in that direction by them it may happen, but usually it needs to do something else, which it knows is more important for the healing process. It doesn't really care what our weekend plans are, but rather knows what it needs to do to heal.

 

Giving up that control is very hard because we think about the problem too much.

 

Edited January 7 by getofflex

[Kat66]

Thanks getofflex I needed to hear that.

[Kat66]

Sometimes, well, a lot of the time, this journey feels so lonely. A handful of people I've spoken to in the last couple of weeks or so, have clearly been flummoxed on being told I dissolve tablets in water and take half a mg per day. They simply can't get their heads around it. Some of these people have been medical professionals. After a while I even started to think well maybe WE are the ones who've got it wrong and we should be taking one tablet every second day bla bla bla, but then I realise, they're not the ones going through this hell. They just don't seem to get protracted withdrawal at all. 

 

 

[Kat66]

Update on mood; was starting to feel the benefit of small reinstatement. Took 4x450mg capsules of lemon balm last night for sleep and crashed big time today, intense irritability, looping fear/rerror all day resulting in huge panic attack. A connection maybe?

[getofflex]

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

Took 4x450mg capsules of lemon balm last night for sleep and crashed big time today, intense irritability, looping fear/rerror all day resulting in huge panic attack. A connection maybe?

It's quite possibly connected to the lemon balm.  It could be you took too much.  We suggest when trying a supplement, you start with a low dose to see how it affects you - you could start with, say, 1/2 capsule, or 1/4 capsule, then work up from there. 

 

We generally don't recommend supplements other than magnesium and omega-3 for this reason.  

 

Supplements - What Helps and What Doesn't

 

You can use the search feature to search the site about lemon balm: 

 

How to Do a Site Search

Edited January 12 by getofflex

[Kat66]

Thanks getofflex, I won’t be making that mistake again. I also have a cold which could be a factor too maybe? Honestly, our systems are so sensitive! Nightmare!

[Kat66]

I'm wondering about switching to Prozac as a bridging drug. I've not improved in any great way since Christmas and am existing in a permanent state of chemical terror. I am scared of everything and the suffering just stretches out in front with no relief. Is there any scenario where a Prozac switch would make any sense?

Thanks in advance.

[Kat66]

Hi, sorry to ask this again, but I was wondering if there would be a case for me to go onto Prozac as an aid in my taper. I'm down to half a mg of citalopram, holding but struggling. What if I were to go onto the equivalent dose of Prozac  - would this be an option to make things easier going forward?

 

Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks!

[Believer]

Hi @Kat66,

Sorry you didn’t receive any advice on the bridge. From what I’ve read here it doesn’t appear to be a promising solution. What did you decide? How are you doing?

[LotusRising]

Hi @Kat66

 

Did you already read through the entire post on bridging? 

 

Since Citalopram has a quite a long half-life as it is and you're already on such a small dose, I would tend to agree with Believer. What symptoms are you hoping will improve by bridging over to prozac? Have you already tried updosing?

[Kat66]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:02 PM, Believer said:

Hi @Kat66,

Sorry you didn’t receive any advice on the bridge. From what I’ve read here it doesn’t appear to be a promising solution. What did you decide? How are you doing?

It's not a problem, I know how busy the mods are. I've decided, after talking with a couple of people privately, that I'm going to stay on citalopram 0.5mg for the foreseeable and am already feeling more stable after around 9 weeks at this dose. Things have calmed down, I'm functioning better and my horrible intrusive thoughts have reduced considerably. Holding definitely works, and messing around with different doses, meds and supplements and coming off at too high a dose (0.7mg in Nov) definitely doesn't work.

How are you doing? x

 

On 3/1/2024 at 6:12 PM, LotusRising said:

Hi @Kat66

 

Did you already read through the entire post on bridging? 

 

Since Citalopram has a quite a long half-life as it is and you're already on such a small dose, I would tend to agree with Believer. What symptoms are you hoping will improve by bridging over to prozac? Have you already tried updosing?

Thanks for the comments LotusRising, I have decided to stay on Cit at half a mg (see above). I think I was hoping the end taper would be easier on Prozac but since Cit has a longish half life I don't need to switch now.

I went from 0.7mg to zero in Nov, then back on 0.5 shortly after Christmas - that's what caused the **** to hit the fan. Never again!

[Believer]

Hi @Kat66

Thats great news that things have calmed down. Agreed, staying where you’re at for a bit is a good idea, then slowly tapering from there. 
 

I’m still slowly tapering…. down to 1.7 now. Still feel like garbage from the ADR to the shot, but tapering seems to be going okay. 

[Kat66]

@Believer I'm glad your tapering is going OK, hopefully the garbage feeling will dissipate with time. 

 

For the time being I am in a window - it feels like it will go on forever - hopefully darker days are a way off yet.

[Believer]

@Kat66

This is fantastic news! I hope it’s still holding true for you.

 

Yeah, the garbage load is lightening a bit. Not enough, or as quickly as I’d like, but it is what it is, but I have a bit more hope these days. Next cut is coming so we shall see how that affects the overlying vax injury. It’s very much a windows and waves thing as well.

 

Hang in there.

[Kat66]

Very much a windows and waves things for me too @Believer. I was in a small wave recently but literally a few days that's all. I hope the next cut goes OK - I'm dreading my next one, which is waaaaay down the line right now!

[littlebird]

3 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

I was in a small wave recently but literally a few days that's all. I hope the next cut goes OK - I'm dreading my next one, which is waaaaay down the line right now!

Hope it goes well! With a long hold to adjust, hopefully your body will respond well to less medication when the time comes. Glad your wave passed, here's hoping you have many more windows in your future!

[Believer]

@Kat66,

Thats great news! You had quite a wobble and things are settling again. Yay!

Your next cut could be very minimal. Even 1%, just to test the waters and keep you moving lower. Slow and steady. 
 

I just completed my latest cut a few days ago, symptoms should set in any day now….. they don’t seem any better or worse than usual, so onward….