Findinghopebee: advice needed desperately

[Findinghopebee]

Long story short, I have anxiety and panic disorder. My doctor stopped my Prozac CT in April 2022 after 14 years stable on antidepressants. Said would be no issue due to the long half-life. Started getting physical symptoms and severe depression 6 weeks later, so he started Effexor 75mg cause it worked in the past. Since the have had days I feel okayish but the past week has been hospital visits due to SI and severe panic. They just keep giving me benzos but it’s making me worse. I had clonaz once and fainted and still don’t feel right. They want me to wean my Effexor onto Zoloft. What do I do? I can’t go on much longer like this… 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry to hear that you are going through this.  Even though Prozac has a long half life, it still should be gradually tapered, so your doctor made a mistake to take you off cold turkey.  How long have you been on the Effexor?  Are you still in the hospital?  If it were me, I would refuse to take the benzos.  Taking more psych meds puts you at risk of making your withdrawal symptoms worse. When I know more about your drugs, such as how long you've been on the Effexor, I can better advise you. If it were me, I wouldn't switch to Zoloft just yet.  Unfortunately, doctors and hospitals are notorious for not recognizing withdrawal from psych meds, and throwing various drugs at people to try to fix them, and this often makes the situation worse. 

 

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

I'm really sorry that you feel so bad, that you are having SI.  This is not uncommon with people who are destabilized from psychiatric drugs.  Do you actually have a plan, or are you just thinking about it?  Please read these threads: 

 

For Those Who Are Feeling Desperate or Suicidal

 

Thinking Outside the Box About Suicidal Feelings

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with other symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I've given you quite a bit of information here.  Please read through it, and mull it over, and we will take it from there. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and take heart.  We in this forum have been through this, and we understand first hand the pain and discomfort you are going through.  Please know that the brain is amazing in it's healing abilities.  It takes time, but healing can and will happen. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by getofflex

[Findinghopebee]

Thank you for getting back to me. Each day feels like a struggle. I’m unable to leave bed or be by myself because I just shake and have severe panic. My partner took me out of the hospital because he felt I would be more looked after at home with family watching me. 
 

I am on 75mg of Effexor and this will be week 7. And 12 weeks since Prozac CT. I am now refusing benzos as they make me feel worse. 
 

Sertraline 50mg Nov 2008-Nov 2018; Effexor Nov 2018-August 2020;

Prozac: 20mg August 2020-April 2022 - CT under Dr direction. 
Effexor 37.5mg for 5 days June 2022 > Effexor 75mg 6 weeks (went down 5-10%) but had to go back to 75mg within a few days. 
Diaz intermittently from December 2021-June 2022 2.5mg-5mg. Sometimes weeks without
 

I take zinc, b6, mag glycinate, flax omega 3, quercitin, bromelain and vit D. 
 

I can’t sleep more than 2.5 hours at a time at night n feel foggy headed and wake up shaking, In adrenaline surge and have nightmares. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Findinghopebee
More info

[getofflex]

I'm very glad you are refusing to take the benzos.  Please continue to refuse them. 

 

The B vitamins can be activating, worsening your anxiety and insomnia, so I would stop those.  For some people, vitamin D can also cause insomnia, so you may want to drop that, too.  I'm not familiar with quercitin, or bromelain, you may want to drop those as well.  When our nervous systems are sensitized, drugs and supplements can have paradoxical and unpredictable effects on us.  The only supplements we suggest on this site to help with withdrawal are omega 3, and magnesium.  This link discusses issues around supplements: 

 

Topics About Supplements, Tests, ect.

 

Supplements - What Helps, What Doesn't

 

 

1) Since you started the Effexor, overall, have you felt better or worse? 

 

2) What symptoms did you have after CTing the Prozac, but prior to starting the Effexor?  

 

I would strongly suggest that you, with the help of your partner, keep a daily journal of your symptoms, the times you take your drugs, your sleep, eating, any other activities, etc.  Please do this for a full 24 hours, and do it each day for a while.  The reason I'm asking this, is to see if you are having an adverse reaction to your Effexor, and see if that is complicating things.  Please pay especially close attention to how you feel before you take your dose, and the 4-5 hours after you take your dose.  Please be specific in describing your symptoms.  Here is an example.  Please post your journal entries in this thread, thank you.  

 

6 AM woke with anxiety

8 am took 2.5 mg lexapro

10 am stomach is upset

10:30 am ate breakfast

11:35 am got a headache, lasted one hour

12:35 ate lunch

4 pm feel a bit better

5 pm took 2.5 mg lexapro

6 pm ate dinner

9:20 pm headache 

10:00 pm took 50 mg Seroquel

10:30 pm feeling dizzy

10:30 pm fell asleep 

2:30 am woke, took 3 mg Ambien

2:45 am fell asleep

4:30 am woke, but got back to sleep 

[Findinghopebee]

I have had seldom days where I feel I am able to cope but mostly worse. I wrote this 2 weeks ago. Week 4 - depression worsening. Does anyone just feel so disconnected from their life? Like lost in a fog and can’t really see a way out. I was originally started Effexor XR for OCD, GAD and PTSD. I’ve started therapy but I just feel I’m at a stage where I’m like, what’s the point of life. I’ve lost both my parents, I am too anxious to work at the moment, I feel like I’m a burden to my partner and have had 2 miscarriages in the past year. I feel like I have no purpose and I feel like even tho Effexor takes some of my anxiety away, I feel like I’m loosing my joy to live. I’m now week 6 and have severe andrenaline rushes. Haven’t been able to leave bed I am so weak and even tho the thoughts of suicide have dulled down since my period ended. I’m still not coping well. (I have dysautonomia as well) 

 

2) What symptoms did you have after CTing the Prozac, but prior to starting the Effexor?  
- severe depression (like I havent ever had)

- blurred vision

- anxiety next level

- tinnitus

-  servere vertigo 

 

here is my diary of the last 2 days. We had already started one. 
 

18/07) 8pm: mag glycinate 

9pm-1030pm: sleep

1030pm: toilet

(18/07)1045pm-130am: sleep 

130am - bromelain & Quercitin x 2 

115am-230am: awake 

230am-430am: sleep

430am: woke up adrenaline surge, shakes, panic 

7am: shower 

715am: almost fainted in shower.

BP laying: 117/65 hr: 71

Standing: 86/53 hr: 121

730am: bowl of cereal, flaxseeds and Effexor 75mg 

0830am: crying 

0930am: weakness 

0945: vitamins - 

1230 - shakes and teary - mag glycinate 

3pm - shower, teary 6/10

330pm - put washing on 

330pm - feeling okay, but light headed, slight brain rushes 

5pm - okay 2-3/10 

6pm: hungry 

620: took quercitin and bromelain x 2 (slight rise in anxiety) som focus 

630: dinner, feeling bit anxious,foggy, figet 

7pm: 2 dinner rolls, 1/2 lamb shank, Celery and carrot - felt full

Then 10 minutes later felt hungry but couldn’t eat 

830pm-1015pm: sleep (1.45hrs)

1030-1115: sleep (45min)

1130-1215: sleep (45min)

1215-2am: awake

2am-430am: asleep - nightmare (2.5hrs)

430am:awake - adrenaline dump still at 7am

7am - venlaxafaxine 75mg 

730am - adrenaline

845 - vitamins baby food bsl 7 

11am - teary but sat outside for 10 min

1130am: anxiety in chest but arms n legs calm 

1pm: somewhat calm mild internal buzz 

130pm: got up made sao and cheese with fruit purée and hydralyte 

3pm. Panic starting to set in, discomfort 

315pm: panic, crying 

345pm: calmed a bit with Ryan and his mum 

630: folded washing

645: ate dinner and showered

710: woo shy head but okay emotionally 

 930-1030pm: sleep 

1049-1115: sleep

1115-12:sleep

12: woke with anxiety 

12: took mag glycinate

1230-130:sleep

130-145; in pain

150-230: sleep

240-3: awake 

3-530: sleep 

530: awake anxious, shakey

630: crying shakey

7: adrenaline, crying shakey

715: Ven 75 and half bowl oats with flaxseeds 

 Hope this helps. I’m so scared! 

[getofflex]

I need to see a drug signature as requested in my first post.  

On 7/19/2022 at 5:38 PM, getofflex said:

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

[getofflex]

Thank you.  Can you please put some spaces between the 2 days, to make it more easily readable?  It would help to put a date as a header too.  Thank you.  

 

It sounds like you feel a bit better as the day goes on.  It sounds like you are experiencing the typical exaggerated early morning cortisol rush that many of us have in withdrawal.  This causes the adrenaline surge, shakes, panic, etc.  It may help to walk around a bit when this happens, if you can.  

 

Do you feel signficantly worse in the few hours after you take your Effexor?  

[Findinghopebee]

18th July:

8pm: mag glycinate 

9pm-1030pm: sleep

1030pm: toilet

1045pm-130am: sleep

 

 

19th July

130am - bromelain & Quercitin x 2 

115am-230am: awake 

230am-430am: sleep

430am: woke up adrenaline surge, shakes, panic 

7am: shower 

715am: almost fainted in shower.

BP laying: 117/65 hr: 71

Standing: 86/53 hr: 121

730am: bowl of cereal, flaxseeds and Effexor 75mg 

0830am: crying 

0930am: weakness 

0945: vitamins - 

1230 - shakes and teary - mag glycinate 

3pm - shower, teary

330pm - put washing on 

330pm - feeling okay, but light headed, slight brain rushes 

5pm - okay

6pm: hungry 

620: took quercitin and bromelain x 2 (slight rise in anxiety) som focus 

630: dinner, feeling bit anxious,foggy, figet 

7pm: 2 dinner rolls, 1/2 lamb shank, Celeryand carrot - felt full

Then 10 minutes later felt hungry but couldn’t eat 

830pm-1015pm: sleep (1.45hrs)

1030-1115: sleep (45min)

1130-1215: sleep (45min)

1215-2am: awake

2am-430am: asleep - nightmare (2.5hrs)

430am:awake - adrenaline dump still at 7am

7am - venlaxafaxine 75mg 

730am - adrenaline

845 - vitamins baby food bsl 7 

11am - teary but sat outside for 10 min

1130am: anxiety in chest but arms n legs calm 

1pm: somewhat calm mild internal buzz 

130pm: got up made sao and cheese with fruit purée and hydralyte 

3pm. Panic starting to set in, discomfort 

315pm: panic, crying 

345pm: calmed a bit

630: folded washing

645: ate dinner and showered

710: woo shy head but okay emotionally 

 930-1030pm: sleep 

1049-1115: sleep

1115-12:sleep

 

 20th July

12: woke with anxiety 

12: took mag glycinate

1230-130:sleep

130-145; in pain

150-230: sleep

240-3: awake 

3-530: sleep

530: awake anxious, shakey

630: crying shakey

7: adrenaline, crying shakey

715: Ven 75 and half bowl oats withflaxseeds 

 

 

my pulse rate was 180bpm this morning when I try to stand up out of bed, I am so weak atm that I can’t stand for too long due to a condition called POTS. Because I tend to take the ven in the morning, I don’t really  know if I feel significantly worse from that or the adrenaline rush because they last for hours for me and come and go. I had to take a propranolol to slow my heart this morning for the first time because it just wouldn’t slow. Even with breathing. 
 

Sertraline 08’ - 17’ 50mg > tapered to 

Effexor 17’ - 20’ 75mg, started 5-10-% tapered to 37.5mg (mothers death and miscarriages) tapered to add 

Prozac 20’- April 22’ - 20mg > Dr CT

Effexor 75mg - June 22’ > current 

vitamins; mag glycinate, omega 3, b6, zinc, Vit D

 

I hope I did I correct. 

[getofflex]

You have about 2.5 to 3 hours awake before taking your venlafaxine.  Do you feel better during this time, before your dose on average, or just as bad as after you take the venlafaxine?   

 

I see you are having a pretty rough time with the early morning cortisol spike.  This link talks about this.  

 

Managing the Early Morning Cortisol Spike

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by getofflex

[Findinghopebee]

just as bad 😔 

[Altostrata]

Hello @Findinghopebee since you've been on Effexor, how has your symptom pattern changed?

 

Did you start immediately at 75mg Effexor? Is it Effexor XR?

[Findinghopebee]

Over time I have become more shakey panicking and teary. I get morning andrenaline n throughout the day I’m so nervous I can’t eat. I wake every 1-2hrs. I take mag glycinate n do all the right things, but have woken like this for the past 11 days. I have no energy to leave bed, I’ve lost 3kg in a week. Was on 38.5mg for 5 days, told Dr I didn’t like it spacey feeling. Told me to increase, 75mg XR for 7 weeks. 

[getofflex]

It doesn't look to me like you are having an adverse reaction to the Effexor.  I believe you are having withdrawal from going off the Prozac cold turkey.  Your doctor gave you bad advice by having you do that.  Even though Prozac has a long half life, it should still be gradually tapered.  It took your withdrawal weeks to manifest, because of the long half life of Prozac.  I suggest you do a reinstatement of 1 mg of Prozac.  The purpose of this is to reduce your withdrawal symptoms.  Try this for a week, and if you need more, we can carefully increase it a bit at a time.  There is some risk involved, but we are minimizing that risk by starting you out with a low reinstatement amount.  Please read this link carefully.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Let us know if you decide to reinstate.  This link will explain how to get this small dose of Prozac:

 

 Dosing and Tapering Prozac

Edited July 22, 2022 by getofflex

[Findinghopebee]

I’m under the impression it’s been to long to reinstate. I’m on Effexor XR now, would that compensate for the loss of Prozac? 

[Altostrata]

@Findinghopebee it does not appear that the Effexor XR you're taking has been a good substitute for the Prozac.

 

Let's see if a little Prozac helps. If it does, you'd slowly go off Effexor.

[Findinghopebee]

I barely am able to sleep more than 1 hour at a time. Averaging 5 hours a night. Prozac is activating. So is Effexor, so I’m just worried that will make the sleep worse? 

[Altostrata]

Have you felt a sense of activation from Effexor? 

 

Why are you taking quercetin?

 

On 7/19/2022 at 4:34 PM, Findinghopebee said:

Diaz intermittently from December 2021-June 2022 2.5mg-5mg. Sometimes weeks without

 

When was the last time you took diazepam? How often did you take in the month of June?

[Findinghopebee]

I have felt more anxious since being on Effexor, my sleep is so bad n not sleeping makes anxiety worse. I take mag glycinate n fish oil. I really need a solution for the lack of sleep. It’s making everything worse. Was taking quercitin for the anxiety but got advised to stop. Last time I took Diaz was 8 days ago - it did nothing for me. Then in hospital they gave me klonopin, I only took .125mg because I was so scared and it paralysed my legs then I had worse anxiety after. That was 5 days ago. 
 

I took Diaz maybe 4 times in June. 

[Altostrata]

It appears that 75mg Effexor XR is too much for you. Are you able to reduce by 10% -- 7.5mg? You'll have to figure out how to measure it out. Do your capsules contain tiny beads? 

 

[Findinghopebee]

Yes, I tried this but the anxiety is so extreme. I don’t know what to do. I’m bed bound, can’t sleep more than a few hours, loosing weight fast. 😭 😭 

[Altostrata]

When did you reduce Effexor?

[UserMan1775]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:56 AM, Findinghopebee said:

My doctor stopped my Prozac CT in April 2022 after 14 years stable on antidepressants. Said would be no issue due to the long half-life. Started getting physical symptoms and severe depression 6 weeks later, (Exact mark once your body has eliminated 95% of prozac, this is WD)

 

These doctors are such morons it is infuriating, especially after being on a drug over 10 years, it is a recipe for disaster.

[Findinghopebee]

Last week for 2 days, was horrible but so is this. I actually am going into panic from not sleeping. I don’t know what to do. 

[getofflex]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

When did you reduce Effexor?

 

10 hours ago, Findinghopebee said:

Last week for 2 days, was horrible but so is this. I actually am going into panic from not sleeping. I don’t know what to do.

I didn't realize you had reduced your Effexor last week for 2 days.  We go by drug signatures, since we deal with many members.  Can you please update your drug signature to show the date you reduced it, the dose, and then the date you updosed it, and that dose.  I can't give you the best suggestions if I don't know about all of your recent drug changes.  Thank you.  To access your drug signature, please select your name in the upper right corner of the screen, select "account settings" then select "signature".  Be sure to hit save after you make the updates.  Thank you.  

[Findinghopebee]

For 2 days over the 18th and 19th of this month. I fixed my signature. The body shaking and internal vibration is Horrible. I’ve had to start taking propranolol. 

[getofflex]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It appears that 75mg Effexor XR is too much for you. Are you able to reduce by 10% -- 7.5mg? You'll have to figure out how to measure it out. Do your capsules contain tiny beads? 

 

[getofflex]

This link explains how to reduce Effexor: 

 

Tips for Tapering Off Effexor and Effexor XR

[Findinghopebee]

Thank you! I have read this. I still am at a loss of what to do because the symptoms don’t improve if I stay on the same dose or taper. 

[Altostrata]

How did you measure a 5% reduction? 

 

It would take at least a few days for a reduction to fully register. Did you not see any difference and then put your dose back up to 75mg?

[Findinghopebee]

Yes. I use the micro scales to weigh the %. I’ll try 5%. Is melatonin okay to use? I need to get sleep. 

[getofflex]

It takes about a week for a dose change to be felt, because it takes about that long to become steady state in your blood stream, and register with your brain.  

 

Here is our topic on melatonin.  I'm able to take it with no problem.  However, you should only make 1 change at a time, so if there is an issue, you know what is causing the issues.  I would separate the 5% reduction and starting melatonin by at least 1 week if I were you.

 

Start with a really low dose of melatonin at first, to see how it affects you. 

 

Melatonin for Sleep