VA2202: bromazepam 3mg - nightmare

[VA2202]

Good Afternoon to all of You, 

 

Probably will sound a bit ''funny'' as my ''treatment was quite very low'' in compressing to what I had read on the website but... 

I had been diagnosed with general anxiety disorder back in 2019, and the treatment prescribed by the psychiatrist was bromazepam 3mg durning the day and 10mg of doxepin before sleep. 

 

Going forwards, no one told me for how long should I take them, so from 2019 till now I took them constantly. 

I managed on the begging of the year to get rid off them but after 3 moths due to some problems I had to come back to the pills. I started to taper them in October, I don't need the doxepin any more but ... 

 

If I knew how benzodiazepines work I will never took them. My problem is that I cut every two weeks 0,75mg, but when I reached to 1,5mg and had to go to 0,75 and then take it out for good my body said NO! For a week I have very nasty muscle aches, dizziness, problems with the stomach, hands shakings, I can't sleep properly, cramps and sensation of vomiting. 

 

In all this period of 3 years, I done and I'm still doing psychotherapy which helped a lot but my worry is if I'm doing the tapper properly ? 

Basically to cut every two weeks 0,75 from the pill? I'm doing it too fast? Is normal to have all these sensations? 

 

Probably was the worst decision to take Bromazepam. 

Any reply will be much appreciated. 

 

Regards, 

 

V

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @VA2202

 

Since you have withdrawal symptoms, please stop tapering for the time being, let your nervous system settle down. It is possible you will need to taper more gradually. @Shep will advise.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[VA2202]

Hi @Altostrata

 

Much appreciated for your reply. 

Thing is that I can't go lower at the moment from 1,5 mg, and yes I presume I went way too fast with the taper. 

Around 2 weeks ago I started to take CBD gummies with 10% concentration and I started to feel better but I need the bromazepam.

As how I did my calculation, from today I should decrease another 25% of the dose but I feel my body cannot do this step at the moment and I feel trapped. 

Still feel muscle aches, chest pressure, and tingling in my left hand from time to time ... it's absolutely a nightmare. 

 

In regards to the history :

1. Doxepin 10mg, from 2019 for sleeping ... I took it off around a month ago and I don't have any problems with sleep

2. Bromazepam 3mg from 2019, as I mentioned I got rid of it for 3 months in the spring and I had to go back again 

 

Kindest Regards, 

 

Vlad 

 

[VA2202]

Taper symptoms- Bromazepam

 

Hi All, 

 

Have a quick question; if someone experienced numbness on the left hand side, burning or cold sensation on the arm ,left side foot and the most scary, left side numbness of the face? Other things, muscle aches and muscle cramps? 
 

In the afternoon suddenly started to feel numbness on the left side of the face and extreme anxiety, took a pill o vitamin B12 and felt better after. 
 

I will go now on the 6th week of 1,5 mg of Bromazepam and after I will try to decrease. 
 

Any answer will muck more than appreciated. 
 

Kindest regards,

 

V 
 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Shep
added title after merging from new topic in the tapering section

[Shep]

@VA2202 Please note I moved your post from the tapering section to your intro / update thread.

 

Please continue using this thread to ask questions. 

 

13 hours ago, VA2202 said:

Have a quick question; if someone experienced numbness on the left hand side, burning or cold sensation on the arm ,left side foot and the most scary, left side numbness of the face? Other things, muscle aches and muscle cramps? 
 

 

Yes, numbness, burning, and cold sensations can be withdrawal symptoms. However, sudden numbness and other extreme symptoms only on one side of the body can also be symptoms of a stroke. If you are older and / or suffering from other health conditions that leave you susceptible to a stroke, please consult a doctor. 

 

If these symptoms are withdrawal related, please see:

 

Paresthesia: pins & needles, numbness, tingling, burning sensations aka neuropathy

 

Burning skin, burning feet

 

Please add a signature so we know your history. Here is how:

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

Please include the date your started your drugs and any stop dates. Also include supplements you're currently taking, along with the doses. 

[VA2202]

@Shep Thank you for your prompt response. 

 

These face, arm, and leg numbness, burns and pinches I have them for almost 2 weeks almost daily. Sometimes it's nothing scary, but like yesterday, like you pointed I started to think to the worst scenario. After taking a pill of vitamin B12 I felt much better. 

 

I didn't had any problems with movement, thinking (the thinking is quite sharp and my thoughts are quite calm usually with all these physical feelings), with speach and so on. My worry is how long will take to get rid of them and the most important how much % i have to take off from the bromazepam at this stage? 

 

Thank you, 

 

V 

[Altostrata]

16 minutes ago, VA2202 said:

After taking a pill of vitamin B12 I felt much better. 

 

Hello, you may be low in vitamin B12, that may cause neurological symptoms such as you've described.

 

Are your vitamin B12 pills really 10mg? Usually supplementation is a higher dosage -- but you may wish to be extra cautious and continue to take a low dose every day. 

[VA2202]

@Altostrata Hey. Missed a digit, the B12 is 100μ. I was reading that if you have a deficit of vitamin B12 will be good to take between 1000 and 2000g a day but I do things slowly. 

 At the moment things are fine, I just prepare mentally to decrease the bromazepam. 

 

Much appreciated @Altostrata and @Shep for your replays. 

 

Thank you, 

 

V

[Altostrata]

It may take some time for you to build up B12 reserves with your supplementation. If just a little B12 made such a big difference, your B12 level might be quite depleted. Best to build up the supplementation slowly, as you're doing.

[VA2202]

Hi, 

 

Just have one question if you can help me?

It is possible that signs like bruxism and jaw clenching are related to lowering the dose? 

 

For a few days, I observed every morning, before getting down from bed, that I'm gridding my teeth and during the day I fell tension in the jaw.

 

At the moment I'm still staying at 1.5mg of the bromazepam, as I feel ''safe''. I'm thinking to start to lower the dose after the new year.   

 

Thank you, 

 

Regards, 

 

V

[Faure]

Hello, yes the jaw issues are likely to do with the lowered dose. I get this, often a tense tongue at times when I drop a dose. You can check out WD symptoms in this section of the website. Where you will see mostly all symptoms that you will, unfortunately, experience. 
 

It sounds like a very good idea to wait till after Christmas, possibly a few months before you resume your taper. Then you will want to do no more than 10% of your most recent dose no more often than every 4 weeks. Be sure to take advice from a mod when you decide to start tapering again. You need to be pretty stable before you start again.
 

See:

 

Why taper by 10%

WD normal

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, VA2202 said:

It is possible that signs like bruxism and jaw clenching are related to lowering the dose? 

 

When did this behavior appear?

[VA2202]

Hi, around 2 weeks ago. 

[Shep]

@VA2202 You may want to look into getting a nightguard to protect your teeth while you sleep. It will save you a fortune in future dental work. Your dentist can make a custom one, which is best, but you can also get much less expensive ones at many drug stores. 

 

You may find more helpful tips here:

 

Facial tics, jaw, tongue muscle tension and pain, bruxism, teeth clenching, TMJ

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 12/14/2022 at 1:40 AM, VA2202 said:

Hi, around 2 weeks ago. 

 

You may wish to get a bite guard and postpone tapering for a while, let your system settle down.

[VA2202]

@AltostrataMorning. Thank you for the advice. I'll stay for a little while on 1.5mg. Probably cause of the jump from 3mg to 2.25 and then to 1.5, was too fast and turned me a little ''upside down''.

                       I have days and days, some days I felt great with no sign of the WD and I have days that I feel like ''in hell''.  

 

                       Most of the things that I'm experiencing are low energy - fatigue, lethargy, anxiety, nervous, tension, chest pain, agitation (restlessness, hyperactivity) - happened yesterday for more than an hour, runny nose, headache,                         tremors, numbness(but not that much), burning, tingling, muscle cramps and muscle aches, stiffness, twitches, uncontrollable twitching of mouth, tinnitus and for a week, I can't rest that good during the night. My mind                           and thoughts are very clean, just the physical feelings/reactions are a nightmare sometimes.   

                       

                       I had a look at ''Ashton Manual'' but I didn't find anything for Bromazepam, so I just think the best option will be 10% off the dosage, but after the new year. 

 

                      Thank you once again guys @Altostrata  @Shep and @Faure.

 

                      All the best, 

 

                      V 

 

 

                      

 

 

[Altostrata]

You may still have withdrawal symptoms from doxepin. When did you start taking 1.5mg bromazepam per day after March 2022?

[VA2202]

Hi @AltostrataI'm on 1.5mg of bromazepam since the 31st of October. I keep a journal every single day, states, mg and so on. 

For short, until the 17th of October, I was on 3mg, from the 17th to the 31st of October I stayed on 2.25mg, and from the 31st of October till the present, I'm on 1.5mg.  

And yes, from March till October I was constant on 3mg when I decided that is enough and I need to make the step forward.  

The doxepin, as I mentioned, helped me a lot with sleep, and after I managed to drop I didn't have any problems for quite a long period of time.  

I just presume that I made the taper too fast, and that's why I feel like I feel; I was reading the website for quite a while but I didn't have the courage to ask questions.

In January next year, finally, after 3 years and a half I will go back home (I'm leaving in the UK for 10 years), and I scheduled myself for a complete set of blood tests, RMI, CTs and so on just to have a peace of mind, even I know nothings wrong is just the WD that can take longer than I expect. 

 

Thank you. 

 

V 

 

 

[Shep]

3 hours ago, VA2202 said:

I'm on 1.5mg of bromazepam since the 31st of October. I keep a journal every single day, states, mg and so on. 

For short, until the 17th of October, I was on 3mg, from the 17th to the 31st of October I stayed on 2.25mg, and from the 31st of October till the present, I'm on 1.5mg.  

And yes, from March till October I was constant on 3mg when I decided that is enough and I need to make the step forward.  

 

Please update your signature to reflect these changes. A direct link is here:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Did your symptoms get worse after the 31st of October when you reduced from 2.25 mg down to 1.5 mg? Have any symptoms gotten better? 

 

 

[VA2202]

Hi @ShepI don't feel the pinches, the burn and the numbness in my left arm, leg, and face, which is the best thing. This happen after I started to take the vitamins, the valeriana and CBD gummies. 

In rest I have muscle tension, chest tension, hight anxiety sometimes, tremors, uncontrollable twitching of mouth and jaw tension and I'm not resting properly, I wake up several times during the night. All time when I take the pill, around mid day, most of the sensations fade away for couple of hours. 

 

I try as much as I can to ''get busy'' and trick my brain with activities just to not become overwhelmed by the sensations. Sometimes works, sometimes not. 

 

V  

 

[VA2202]

I forgot to mention that for around 5 days I have like a very wired mental tension state even I don’t have any worries or any stress that can take even 2 3 hours. Also cause of this I started to have high blood pressure. I guess this can be part of the process? 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, VA2202 said:

Hi @ShepI don't feel the pinches, the burn and the numbness in my left arm, leg, and face, which is the best thing. This happen after I started to take the vitamins, the valeriana and CBD gummies. 

 

The Valerian may be helping with the rapid benzo decrease. Please note that Valerian works as a mild benzo. 

 

Valerian root

 

Please be very careful with the vitamins, Valerian, and CBD gummies. You'll want to taper off the Valerian when you're ready to stop taking it, as the withdrawal for many people is the same as withdrawing from a benzo. 

 

Also, it's best to take supplements at the same time of the day and at the same dose. Variations in doses and timing can cause upticks in symptoms. You may already be on a set schedule, but if not, something to consider doing. 

 

15 hours ago, VA2202 said:

I forgot to mention that for around 5 days I have like a very wired mental tension state even I don’t have any worries or any stress that can take even 2 3 hours. Also cause of this I started to have high blood pressure. I guess this can be part of the process? 

 

Has anything changed in the past few days? Additional work or family stress that may be causing elevated blood pressure? With the holidays, many of us are tempted with high sugar foods, which can cause spikes in blood sugar and blood pressure. If your blood pressure is dangerously high, please check in with a doctor. Even though changes in blood pressure can be caused by withdrawal, best to be safe. 

[VA2202]

Thank you for making me aware of the Valerian, I'm just taking it at the moment just during the evening before bedtime and I will try to WD slowly. 

The supplements I take them constantly at the same dose and the same period of time during the day. 

 

The only single thing that comes to mind probably is just this feeling of ''impatience'' to go home, I was mentioning, haven't been home since 2019 ... last night was the first night after ages when I couldn't sleep absolutely at all, and I'm just wondering if it will be a good solution to split the bromazepam into 2 parts, one in the afternoon,0.75mg and one before bedtime,0,75, same dosage?

Didn't have any sleep problems in the past 3 years and now suddenly I can't rest properly. 

 

 

 

[Shep]

37 minutes ago, VA2202 said:

The only single thing that comes to mind probably is just this feeling of ''impatience'' to go home, I was mentioning, haven't been home since 2019 ... last night was the first night after ages when I couldn't sleep absolutely at all, and I'm just wondering if it will be a good solution to split the bromazepam into 2 parts, one in the afternoon,0.75mg and one before bedtime,0,75, same dosage?

Didn't have any sleep problems in the past 3 years and now suddenly I can't rest properly. 

 

Please don't make any changes due to having one single poor night. It's possible it was a one-off and things may improve. Let's see how you do over the coming few days. 

 

Bromazepam's half-life is 12 - 20 hours, depending on how fast you're metabolizing it. So it may help to split it out if you're having inter-dose withdrawal. But if you're having trouble sleeping, taking it at night is usually best. Are you having intense withdrawal symptoms during the day? 

 

Are you currently taking the bromazepam all at night? 

[VA2202]

Hi @Shep during the day, I just have that very annoying tension some times, that can take for several hours but in rest I feel ok at the moment. 
 

The pill I take usually around mid day, but yesterday I split it, half at mid day, half before going to sleep and I managed to sleep for several hours. 

[Shep]

@VA2202 Please set up precise times to take your drugs and supplements every day at the same times of the day and at the same dose. This is important.

 

If having part of the bromazepam is helpful to take at night, I would set a specific amount to take at the same time. I hope this solves the problem of insomnia and stabilizes your sleep. I would avoid a lot of experimentation, as moving drugs around can destabilize the nervous system by creating fluctuating amounts of the drug in your blood stream and making your nervous system work harder. This can create a worse outcome. 

 

Please let us know how you do. 

[VA2202]

Hi @Shep much more than appreciate for your support. I’ll keep up in mind what you just text, go with the schedule and let you know with the outcome. 
 

Wish you guys Merry Christmas and all the best wishes. 
 

Thank you once again for all the support. 
 

V 
 

 

[VA2202]

Happy New Year to All and hope everyone is fine. 

 

From the last discussion last year, I kept the schedule for the supplements(just vitamins) and for the bromazepam at the same time but for a week I have very bad problems with sleep, one night I fell asleep, one no, or I feel asleep just for few hours during the night and when I wake up I feel like ''drunk'' and is very distressful and annoying. During the day I'm just thinking about how to get in bed all the time and take small naps ... 

On top of this, and make sense cause of the lack of sleep, I feel very dizzy sometimes and I lost my appetite, I'm struggling during the day to eat and all the time I'm eating after a few minutes I feel sick. 

I try to stay as much as possible hydrated and eat as much as possible fruits or fibre bars. 

 

Another thing is that I took out the Valerian and the CBD gummies, which I don't take at all for more than a week, can this be the cause of problems with sleep? 

 

Thank you, 

 

V

[Shep]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:25 AM, VA2202 said:

Another thing is that I took out the Valerian and the CBD gummies, which I don't take at all for more than a week, can this be the cause of problems with sleep? 

 

Yes, it could well be. 

 

Valerian works like a benzo. It's often referred to as a mild benzo and it needs to be tapered slowly.

 

Please see:

 

Valerian root

 

Cannabis, marijuana, hashish, THC, & CBD / cannabidiol or Hemp oil

 

You may want to reinstate one or both and see if your sleep problems resolve. Since it's been more than a week, you may not need the full dose, since your brain may have started adjusting. You could try reinstating at 90% and see how you do. 

[VA2202]

Good Afternoon to All, 

 

So, as I was mentioning a while ago that I will take a break at the begging of the year and come home and I managed to get home and try to sort out some things ... 

 

I managed to make a full set of blood tests, all came perfect as I wasn't expecting, and the biggest surprise that I had, I was to a cardiologist, neurologist, haematologist and a allergologist and all four doctors told me the same thing, that all the physical and mental symptoms that I have are related to the pills (in this case the bromazepam), nothing is wrong with me, they've told me will be a long battle to get rid off them and suggested to get to a psychiatrist to change me the treatment.

 

My luck was that I managed to get to the same psychiatrist that prescribed me the treatment in 2019, I explained her that I ''abused'' with the bills because the problems that I had and she explained me that is very hard to get rid off benzo's but with a lot of will and perseverance I will be fine and she made me a new scheme in the way that in a month I will get rid off the bromazepam. 

 

I will let in the signature the new scheme that I have now, with all the supplements. 

 

I'm very positive and feel the things will go in the right way. I had couple of days that I felt my left hand and leg very weak and some emotional distress but nothing worrying. 

 

Wish you all the best, keep strong and things will be fine. 

 

Regards,

 

V

[Shep]

@VA2202 What you're psychiatrist is proposing is dangerous. Now you've added in Lyrica, which will need to be tapered. And Arketis (which is Paxil, one of the hardest antidepressants to taper off). I'm not familiar with XYZAL, but I looked it up and see it's an antihistamine. Adding in a lot of sedating drugs and supplements may cause paradoxical reactions. And removing a benzo after you've added in an antidepressant like Paxil is not recommended (please see 
Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?).

 

Going off of bromazepam with a month long taper is a really bad idea. 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

If you wish to continue with your doctor's plan, please follow up with your doctor. This is way too complicated and dangerous for us to be able to assist you with. 

[Erell]

Hello @VA2202, 

I agree with Shep: the plan proposed by your psychiatrist sounds dangerous. 

This professional doesn't seem to be aware of the current research on psychotropic drug withdrawal phenomena and the need for gradual and slow tapers. 

1.5 mg of bromazepam is not a small dose to stop and a month of withdrawal is very short, too short.

I see that you have tried to quit several times, what have you learned from these attempts?

 

I also see that you are familiar with Heather Ashton's work: at the time when I too was trying to stop taking bromazepam, several years ago, her work was the only information I could find. 
I didn't follow exactly her recommendations because I went even more slowly in my taper, depending on what my body could tolerate, but what I took from her work was the need to go slowly and very gradually.

What did you think of your reading of Ashton's work? What did you learn from it?

 

I fully understand the desire to get rid of these molecules as quickly as possible, as well as the desire to find tools to eliminate the symptoms, unfortunately, the only way we know of to get rid of physiological dependence on psychotropic drugs and to help the nervous system regain stability is to do a slow and gradual taper (over several months/years) and to avoid introducing a whole host of new drugs or supplements which may lead to new dependence as well as contributing to the destabilisation of the nervous system. 

 

When we talk about gradual taper, we are not talking about a 50% drop from 3 mg to 1.5 mg in one month. 
Please see: 

1. why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

2. micro-taper-instead-of-10-or-5-decreases/

 

 

As Shep said, on this site we take a harm reduction approach based on current scientific research and principles derived from thousands of testimonials from people who have gone through withdrawal. This harm reduction approach is not compatible with rapid and drastic taper plans.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Erell

[VA2202]

Good Evening @Shepand @Erell

 

Much appreciated for your responses and advices. 

I will be extremely honesty you guys, in regards of the bromazepam I said to my self that I will not follow the doctor's guidance, so what I had done, I both my self a small scale to taper the bromazepam by 10% rule and now I am at 1.35mg and I will go slowly to zero in this way as I read and documented my self as much as possible and I know how hard is to get rid off. 

 

What will be the best advice that you can give me in regards of Paxil? - as at the moment I have just 1/2 pill ... 

In regards of Lycra was given for the chest pressure and for 4 days I don't have any problems; what will the best advice for this as well? 

 

A quick response will be much appreciated. 

 

Thank you, 

 

V 

[Shep]

15 hours ago, VA2202 said:

What will be the best advice that you can give me in regards of Paxil? - as at the moment I have just 1/2 pill ... 

In regards of Lycra was given for the chest pressure and for 4 days I don't have any problems; what will the best advice for this as well? 

 

It takes about 2 - 4 weeks to become dependent on a benzo or z-drug and about 4 weeks to become dependent on antidepressants and neuroleptics. Have you been on any of these substances longer than 2 or 3 weeks? Anything you've started, drugs and supplements, over the past week or so you can simply stop taking. If you'e taken them longer than 2 or 3 weeks, you could do a rapid, 25% taper off them so that you're completely off before the one month timeframe. 

 

15 hours ago, VA2202 said:

I will be extremely honesty you guys, in regards of the bromazepam I said to my self that I will not follow the doctor's guidance, so what I had done, I both my self a small scale to taper the bromazepam by 10% rule and now I am at 1.35mg and I will go slowly to zero in this way as I read and documented my self as much as possible and I know how hard is to get rid off. 

 

Thank you, VA. This is great news. But please hold your bromazepam taper until you're off these other, newer drugs and supplements. Let your nervous system rest first and then you can re-start your benzo taper.

 

Please let us know how you're feeling over the coming days. 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @VA2202

 

Quote

 

New treatment starting from January 2023 

1. NIKVORM 2 x 10ml twice a day for 21 days  2.XYZAL 5mg, one pill a day in the evening 

3.APIS CH30 - 5 granules, 4 times a day for 10 days 4.NATRIUM MURIATICUM - 3 granules per day for a month -  from Allergologist  

1. Magnousun 520 mg- which is a concentrated magnesium, one pill a day for a month, one month stop and then again for a month from the cardiologist ; .Lycra 75mg  - every evening, one pill for a moth for the chest pressure, already takin it for 3 days I don't have any issues any more from the neurologist 

1.Doxepin 25mg - 1 pill every evening for 6 months than decrease and take it off 

2.Arketis (paroxetin 20mg) - 1/2 pill for 4 days, then 1 pill for 6 month, every morning, decrease and take it off 

3.Bromazepam 1,5mg - max 4 weeks and then take if off for good and once and for all hopefully - Psychiatrist scheme 

 

 

Which of these drugs have you added, decreased, or changed in the last month, with dates and dosages? (Except for Xyzal, we're not so interested in the allergiy treatment.)

[VA2202]

Hi,

 

@Shep''It takes about 2 - 4 weeks to become dependent on a benzo or z-drug and about 4 weeks to become dependent on antidepressants and neuroleptics. Have you been on any of these substances longer than 2 or 3 weeks?'' No, just for a week and I can tell you that from the paroxetine I feel awful, tremors, dizziness, sweating and my head hurts almost daily, so I will stop to take it. Like I said, with the bormazepam I go with the 10% rule and this we're going fine till I added this paroxetine ... 

*Lycra is actually Lyrica, my mistake. 

 

@Altostrata All the supplements and the drugs we're added from the 21'st of January

 

1.Doxepin 25mg - 1 pill every evening for 6 months than decrease and take it off - helps with sleep and with the allergy

2.Arketis (paroxetin 20mg) - 1/2 pill for 4 days, then 1 pill for 6 month, every morning, decrease and take it off  -  I will stop taking it cause I don't feel well

3.Bromazepam 1,5mg - max 4 weeks and then take if off for good and once and for all hopefully - Psychiatrist scheme - 10% rule, I'm on 1.35mg at at moment