Kelsears Hello 10 weeks off Zoloft with bad withdrawals

[Shep]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:14 PM, Kelsears said:

Late March this terrible depression set in and the SI thought were just to much to handle. 
Throughout this whole CT evening have always been just terrible for me. I’m trying all the coping skills I have. I changed my diet, exercise when I have energy (which isn’t much), I talked to therapist twice a week, yoga, take supplements. If they’re something more please let me know. I’m desperate. I’m down 45lbs since January. I can barely eat most days. 

 

22 hours ago, Kelsears said:

 

the supplements make me feel better maybe it’s just placebo.

 

You mentioned being a vegetarian for 25 years, but in that first quote box I copied in this post, you mentioned that you changed your diet. In what way? 

 

The reason I'm asking this is because we're finding some people do not do well as a vegetarian through withdrawal. If you're a vegetarian for health reasons, you may want to see if that's the best diet for you at this point in time.

 

I'm going to link my own experiences and resources in dealing with this, as I was also a vegetarian prior to withdrawal:

 

Shep's experiences transitioning away from vegetarianism

 

I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't eat meat. For me, it was traumatic leaving vegetarianism. But the results are too good. It was the right call for me. 

 

When did you add in all of those supplements? Have you been taking them for years or are some of them more recent additions to handle the depression and lack of appetite? 

[Kelsears]

@Shep

changed my diet by cutting out processed foods, caffeine, and refined sugars. I do eat fish. I have texture issues and the texture of most meats have always bothered me since I was a little kid. 
 

I’ve always been pretty consistent with the supplements. The ones I added since this happened was the l-theanine and iron. 

[Altostrata]

Do you also supplement with vitamin B12?

 

Now that you've been taking 1.5mg Zoloft for a week, how do you feel compared to prior to reinstatement?

 

What did you do about the lorazepam? What is your current daily symptom and dosing pattern?

[Kelsears]

@Altostrata

oh yes b12 also

 

i haven’t stopped the Zoloft wasn’t sure if I could just stop or need to taper. It’s been 7 doses. definitely feeling some of the side effects I had before like pressure behind my eyes and brain zaps. 
 

Currently taking Ativan at 9 am and 6 pm. 
depressions better today. But I feel just exhausted my whole body feels exhausted. 

[Altostrata]

42 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

What is your current daily symptom and dosing pattern?

 

Including the Zoloft and your symptoms such as zaps.

[Kelsears]

@Altostrata

current dose 1.5mg at 8pm 

symptoms: 

brain zaps 

exhaustion (Cant do basic functions) 

head pressure behind eyes and sinuses 

shoot pain in ears 

eye floaters 

no appetite 

depression 

si thoughts 

muscle weakness 

hair falling out 

pounding heart 

dizzy when I stand. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

How do you feel before and after each dose? Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

[Kelsears]

@Altostrata

 

update currently just upped my Zoloft reinstatement to 7mg. Feeling some relief in the depression. Last month around my cycle I had 15 days of pure hell. This cycle the depression is less and not as consistent as last month. Still bouts of SI thoughts but not everyday like last cycle. Still taking the reinstatement slow.

I need hope. I feel like I’m doing everything wrong because I was educated before all this. Feel bad that I have so much trust into doctors that have messed me up and now take no responsibility. I do anything just to feel happiness again. 

[Shep]

18 hours ago, Kelsears said:

update currently just upped my Zoloft reinstatement to 7mg. Feeling some relief in the depression.

 

Kelsears, I'm glad you're feeling some relief from the depression, but going from 3 mg (listed in your signature) to 7 mg is a massive increase. When did you increase? Please update your signature. 

 

You were at 1.5 mg in April, then 3 mg at the beginning of May, and now 7 mg. 

 

Has your Ativan dosing remained the same? 

 

On 5/4/2023 at 7:54 AM, Altostrata said:

How do you feel before and after each dose? Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

As Alto noted, keeping a daily journal will be very helpful. 

[Kelsears]

@sheep 

 

im loosing my mind. I feel so on edge all the time. I’m so scared I’m not going to make it through this.  I’ve been increasing by 1.5 because that’s the only syringe I can find. My doctor suggested going up 1.5 every 5 days I went to 7.5 on the 13th and been holding there because of the increased anxiety and overall feeling of loosing my mind. 
 

I have been keeping daily log of how I feel when I take all the meds, activities I did that day, my mood, what I’m grateful for, what changed me mood, how much water I drink, supplements I take. 
 

ativan is .5mg at 9am and .5mg at 6pm. I thought I was doing .5mg but my husband told me I was taking the 1mg pill. He’s now taking over giving me my meds because my brain just isn’t working. So I did what you said and broke it in half and moved it further apart. 
 

I’m a mess over here and just trying to stay out of the hospital and alive. 
 

I’ll update my signature. 
 

 

[Altostrata]

Please post those daily notes, indicating how you feel before and after each dose.

[Kelsears]

@Altostrata

3/17 

7am wake cortisol surges 

8am little anxious 

9am Ativan feeling ok 

4pm feeling very anxious SI thoughts lots of crying 

6pm Ativan still crying 

8pm Zoloft feeling ok 

10pm bed feeling ok. 
slept 8 hours 6 minutes 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, Kelsears said:

 I’ve been increasing by 1.5 because that’s the only syringe I can find.

 

Please see: 

 

• Where to get oral syringes

 

13 hours ago, Kelsears said:

@Altostrata

3/17 

7am wake cortisol surges 

8am little anxious 

9am Ativan feeling ok 

4pm feeling very anxious SI thoughts lots of crying 

6pm Ativan still crying 

8pm Zoloft feeling ok 

10pm bed feeling ok. 
slept 8 hours 6 minutes 

 

This is a good start to supplying your notes, but we need the drug doses, too. Please add in how many milligrams of each drug you are taking. 

 

Sleeping 8 hours is wonderful. Do you feel rested or is it a toxic type of sleep? 

 

Also, are you taking any supplements? If so, please also list those, along with the dose. 

[Kelsears]

@Shep

What is toxic sleep? I sleep but still feel tired. I’m going to upgrade my watch to track REM sleep. 
 

 

[Kelsears]

5/18

7am wake cortisol surge 

slept 7hrs 45 minutes 

8am anxious and tired 

9am .5 mg Ativan 

11am slept 20 minutes 

12pm therapy 

2pm went for walk 

4pm little anxious 

6pm .5mg Ativan feeling good 

8pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling good 

9pm 300mg magnesium 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, Kelsears said:

@Shep

What is toxic sleep? I sleep but still feel tired. I’m going to upgrade my watch to track REM sleep. 
 

 

 

That's a good definition of toxic sleep - "I sleep but still feel tired." Toxic sleep is when you sleep but you wake up tired and sometimes agitated. 

 

20 hours ago, Kelsears said:

7am wake cortisol surge 

 

Looks like you have the very common pattern of more symptoms in the morning and less symptoms in the evening. This thread has great tips for handling those early morning anxiety symptoms that come from the surge of morning cortisol:

 

Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike

 

On 4/30/2023 at 4:32 PM, Kelsears said:

magnesium magtein 2 capsules morning 2 capsules evening 

L-theanine 200mg morning 200mg evening 

vitamin D 4000iu morning 

Ashwagandha 250mg morning 250mg evening

omega 3 2000mg afternoon 

easy iron 25mg afternoon 

B12 500mcg morning 

 

You have these listed as your supplements at the end of April, but in your recent drug and symptoms notes, you only list magnesium. Did you stop taking the other supplements? How long had you been on them? 

 

[Kelsears]

5/19

3am awaken by sick child 

slept 5hrs 

8am little anxious but good mood  

9am .5 mg Ativan 

9:30am took iron, probiotics, omega 3

10am went out shopping felt good 

2pm anxious but not bad 

3pm ran to store felt good 

5:46pm .5mg Ativan feeling good 

7pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling little anxious

8pm felt big rush of anxiety took bath which helped 

9pm 300mg magnesium 

* cycle ended

 

@shep 

I got lazy that day taking the supplements had blood retested and D levels back up so discontinued that. I think now that warm weathers here I’m getting more natural D 

 

 

 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Kelsears said:

@shep 

I got lazy that day taking the supplements had blood retested and D levels back up so discontinued that. I think now that warm weathers here I’m getting more natural D 

 

Did you discontinue all of your supplements except magnesium? If so, how long were you on each of these other supplements?

 

On 4/30/2023 at 4:32 PM, Kelsears said:

@Shep

magnesium magtein 2 capsules morning 2 capsules evening 

L-theanine 200mg morning 200mg evening 

vitamin D 4000iu morning 

Ashwagandha 250mg morning 250mg evening

omega 3 2000mg afternoon 

easy iron 25mg afternoon 

B12 500mcg morning 

 

 

The reason I'm continuing to press for this answer is because some of your symptoms may be from stopping these. Any information you have will be helpful:

 

• the name of the supplements you stopped
• the dose you stopped at
• the date you started and the date you stopped
• any tapering you did before stopping

[Kelsears]

@shep no I didn’t discontinue them just got lazy about writing them down. I did stop the vitamin D because my levels were back up. 
 

5/20 

8.5 hours of sleep 

8am big waves of anxiety through body 

9am .5mg Ativan feeling depression setting in feeling of doom and hollowness 

10am magnesium, ashwagandha, theanine, Crying but trying to keep busy planting the gardens 

1pm b12, omega 3, probiotics, iron, ashwagandha still crying but keeping busy 

5:45mg Ativan feel better stopped crying finally 

8:30pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling good

8:30pm magnesium and shower best I felt all day. 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Kelsears said:

9am .5mg Ativan feeling depression setting in feeling of doom and hollowness 

 

19 hours ago, Kelsears said:

5:45mg Ativan feel better stopped crying finally 

 

How did you feel before taking each of these Ativan doses? How did you feel 30 minutes afterwards?

 

The reason I'm asking is to check for interdose withdrawal, which is common with this drug. From what you've written, it sounds like the morning dose made you feel worse and the evening dose made you feel better. Is that correct?

 

19 hours ago, Kelsears said:

9am .5mg Ativan feeling depression setting in feeling of doom and hollowness 

10am magnesium, ashwagandha, theanine, Crying but trying to keep busy planting the gardens 

1pm b12, omega 3, probiotics, iron, ashwagandha still crying but keeping busy 

5:45mg Ativan feel better stopped crying finally 

 

 

Do you find ashwagandha and / or theanine to be sedating? If so, some of the crying may be from taking these near the time you're taking Ativan. It may be causing over sedation and leading to low mood. 

 

How long have you been taking ashwagandha and theanine and at what dose? 

[Kelsears]

Those feelings are are at the time of taking it. Seems like lately morning are rough and as day goes on I feel better. 
Can you explain what inner dose withdrawal is? 
I don’t find the ashwagandha and the anime sedative. Taking them for over a month ashwagandha at 250mg and theanine at 200mg. 
 

5/21 

8am wake feeling mini panic episodes 

8 hours of sleep 

8am took mag, ashwagandha, theanine, b12

9am Ativan .5mg feeling ok 

1pm omega 3, iron 

10-1 outside lots of gardening feeling little bouts of panic but ok 

2-3 nap 

5:45 pm .5 Ativan feeling ok 

6-7:30 more gardening feeling good 

8pm mag and theanine feeling good 

9:30 pm 7.5 Zoloft feeling good 

 

Over all good day with random feeling of panic that would leave as fast as they come. 

[Altostrata]

It appears you are stabilizing on your reinstatement. Please continue to post daily notes.

[Kelsears]

5/22 

just over 8 hours of sleep 

7am woke feeling great 

8am magnesium ashwagandha theanine b12 

9am .5 Ativan feeling good 

12pm iron 

4pm feeling anxiety creeping in

5:45pm .5mg Ativan feeling on edge 

7pm feeling better 

8pm magnesium omega feeling good 

9:30pm 7.5mg Zoloft 

 

overall good day just early evening feelings. 

[Kelsears]

5/23 

8.5 hours sleep 

7am woke feeling little anxious 

8am magnesium ashwagandha theanine b12 

9am .5 Ativan feeling ok 

12pm iron 

4pm feeling on edge, short fuse, crying 

5:45pm .5mg Ativan crying feeling hopeless

8pm magnesium omega feeling sad 

8:45pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling sad 

 

Frost half day great send half lots of feeling and emotions. 

[Shep]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:36 AM, Kelsears said:

Those feelings are are at the time of taking it. Seems like lately morning are rough and as day goes on I feel better. 
Can you explain what inner dose withdrawal is? 

 

Interdose withdrawal is going into withdrawal in between Ativan doses due to Ativan's short half-life (10 - 20 hours, depending on how quickly you metabolize it). You can tell you have interdose withdrawal if your symptoms get better 30 to 60 minutes after taking it. 

 

You seem to have a pattern of feeling worse around 4 PM most days. Is this correct? Once you take Ativan at 5:45 PM, how to you feel around 6:30 or 7 PM? On 5/22, you reported feeling better at 7 PM and on 5/23, you reported feeling sad at 8 PM, but were you less sad at 8 PM than you were at 5:45 PM when you reported crying? Did the intensity decrease? 

 

If you feel you're dealing with interdose Ativan withdrawal, you could split up your daily dose and instead of taking it twice a day, take it 3 times a day. So your .5 mg taken twice a day would be .33 mg taken 3 times a day. The downside to this is it lowers the peak concentration amount because .5 mg is more potent than .33 mg. The other option is to use distraction and other non-drug coping skills to get through the daily waves, knowing you are going to feel better towards bedtime and are regularly sleeping 8 hours a night (which is great - you may not want to mess with what seems to be moving you toward stability). 

[Kelsears]

@Shep

yes 4pm is normally a little rough. But as you stated I use coping skills to get through that time knowing it will get better. The feeling usually get better about an hour or 2 after taking the Ativan. 

 

5/24 

7. 5 hours sleep 

7am woke feeling little anxious 

8am magnesium ashwagandha theanine b12 

9am .5 Ativan feeling little anxious 

1pm iron feeling ok 

3-4pm nap 

5:35pm .5mg Ativan feeling ok 

8pm magnesium omega feeling ok 

9pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling ok 

 

Overall good day little anxious here and there but doable. 

[Shep]

@Kelsears It really looks like you're stabilizing. You may want to go into a long hold for several weeks before making any more changes. This will establish a solid baseline before making any more reductions.

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

[Kelsears]

@Shep

I plan to stay here until after next menstrual cycle or longer if it goes well. This is my week off cycle. In previous month is starts treading down as I ovulate and as I get closer to my cycle. 
Will the morning and afternoon anxiety ease up as my body heals? Or will that not happen until after off all the meds? 
 

5/25 

7.5 hours sleep 

7am woke feeling little anxious 

8am magnesium ashwagandha theanine b12 

9am .5 Ativan feeling little anxious 

1pm iron feeling ok 

2-3:30 nap (noticed afternoon naps make anxiety better in evening) 

5:45pm 5mg Ativan feeling ok 

9pm magnesium omega feeling ok 

9pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling ok

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Kelsears said:

Will the morning and afternoon anxiety ease up as my body heals? Or will that not happen until after off all the meds? 
 

 

Most people see a windows and waves pattern, although some people don't experience a window for a long time, perhaps even until well off these drugs. It's really individual, but slow and gradual improvements over time are to be expected. 

[Kelsears]

5/26

7. 75 hours sleep 

7am woke feeling little anxious 

8am magnesium ashwagandha b12

9am .5 Ativan feeling ok

10am feeling little anxious heading to doctors 

1pm iron feeling ok 

5:35pm .5mg Ativan feeling good 

8pm magnesium omega feeling good 

9pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling ok 

 

Overall good day little anxious here and there but doable. 

[Kelsears]

5/27 

7. 75 hours sleep 

7am woke feeling little anxious 

8am magnesium ashwagandha b12

9am .5 Ativan feeling ok

1pm iron feeling ok 

5:35pm .5mg Ativan feeling anxious and moody, short tempted 

8pm magnesium omega feeling tired and cranky

9pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling ok 

 

Anxiety higher today and feeling moody 

[Kelsears]

5:29

Woke 7am 8.3 hours is sleep. Feeling ok 

8am magnesium ashwagandha b12 

9am .5 Ativan feeling ok 

1pm feeling overwhelmed and crying 

4:30 feeling sad, anxious, overwhelmed 

5:30pm .5mg Ativan feeling sad 

8pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling ok 

8:30pm magnesium omega 3 

 

I think I stabilized on Zoloft when should I increase it? 

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Kelsears said:

I think I stabilized on Zoloft when should I increase it? 

 

Why do you want to increase it? It looks like you're stabilizing. Do you feel like you're stabilizing? 

[Kelsears]

5/30 

Woke 7am 8.75 hours of sleep. Feeling ok 

8am magnesium ashwagandha b12 

9am .5 Ativan feeling anxious

5:30pm .5mg Ativan feeling ok 

8pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling good

8:30pm magnesium omega 3 

overall good day 

 

@shep 

I don’t feel anything like myself. Im still having issue doing anything out side of my simple daily task. I still feel on edge most of the time. I want to wean off the Ativan but know at this current state I would just be back to major anxiety. These good days are usually only after my cycle. Im due in a week and it tends to go down hill once it starts. 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Kelsears said:

@shep 

I don’t feel anything like myself. Im still having issue doing anything out side of my simple daily task. I still feel on edge most of the time. I want to wean off the Ativan but know at this current state I would just be back to major anxiety. These good days are usually only after my cycle. Im due in a week and it tends to go down hill once it starts. 

 

I would give it more time and see if there's an upward trend happening. What you've written here points to some stability happening: 

 

On 5/27/2023 at 1:22 PM, Kelsears said:

Overall good day little anxious here and there but doable. 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 12:19 PM, Kelsears said:

I think I stabilized on Zoloft when should I increase it? 

 

22 hours ago, Kelsears said:

overall good day 

 

Since you just upped the dose May 13th, I would keep holding a bit longer and see how you do over the coming weeks. You're not aiming for what psychiatrists call a "therapeutic dose." Instead, you're looking for an "effective dose" which helps withdrawal symptoms. 

 

 

[Kelsears]

5/31 

5:45am wake up anxious 7 hours broken sleep. 
8am ashwagandha, b12, magnesium 

9:15am .5 Ativan lots of anxiety feeling overwhelmed 

12pm iron 

2:45 crying feeling overwhelmed by emotions 

5pm .5 Ativan crying feeling on edge 

7:45pm 7.5mg Zoloft feeling sad 

8:40pm magnesium and omega feeling tired and sad. 
 

The reason I ask is because the 7.5 mg have helped with the physical symptoms of withdrawl. But still struggling with intrusive thoughts, anxiousness, and periods of depression.  Always around my cycle things start getting worse. It’s due in 6 days and I cried for hours yesterday.