MattNNN - Working on Seroquel taper, mental health struggles

[MattNNN]

Hi, everyone, I'm new to this site. 15 years ago my mother died and I was placed onto Seroquel, Lithium Carbonate, and Zoloft. At one point I was also on Buspar.

I started to taper my medication in August of 2021. I was able to quit Buspar in six weeks, and quit Lithium in four weeks by switching to Lithium Orotate. I was also able to decrease my Zoloft from 175mg to just 37.5mg over the course of about a year, which was very easy until I got down to the last 50mg.

By far the hardest medication to cut is Seroquel. It will probably be another two years before I am off that drug. I'll talk about that more in a later post.

[Carmie]

Hi @MattNNN Welcome to SA. 
 

Would you be so kind as to first of all put in your drug signature. Just go to the top of the Introductions and Updates page. You’ll see a thread entitled: “ Please start a topic about yourself in this forum.” In the first paragraph you’ll see a link as to how to do your signature. 
 

I’m tapering off Seroquel as well. My body is so hypersensitive that it’s taken me nearly four years to get from 7.50mg to 3.45mg and I was tapering many years before then. I started at 300mg. I’m only tapering at about 1.5% every month and a half or longer, but there are a lot of people that can taper at about 10% per month, so of course it won’t take them nearly anywhere as long. 
 

It’s recommended tapering no more than 10% of the previous dose every month. Also, it’s best to only taper one medication at a time. How many mgs of Seroquel are you on? Are you still on 37.5m of Zoloft? 
 

What symptoms have you got at the moment?

Sending hugs🤗

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Carmie
Typo

[MattNNN]

Ok, I'm not exactly sure how to write the signature, but let me try:

August 2021: Seroquel = 350mg, Zoloft = 175mg
March 2022: Seroquel = 300mg, Zoloft = 150mg
August 2022: Seroquel = 300mg, Zoloft = 87.5mg
October 2022: Seroquel = 300mg, Zoloft = 37.5mg

November 2022: Seroquel = 250mg, Zoloft = 37.5mg
December 2022: Seroquel = 200mg, Zoloft = 37.5mg
February 2023: Seroquel = 175mg, Zoloft = 37.5mg
May 2023: Seroquel had been at 143.75mg, withdrawals were too strong, so I had to go back up to 156.25mg. Zoloft still at 37.5mg. Withdrawal symptoms have subsided and stability has mostly returned. New plan is to taper 6.25mg per month, or 75mg per year.

I know that's a bit long, maybe you could recommend a way to make it more concise.

[Carmie]

Hi @MattNNN  Thanks for that information. I mentioned in my last post here how to get to the signature, but I’m guessing you can’t find it, so I’ll leave a note for someone to send you a link. All the information showing how to do it is in the link. When we do a signature it ends up on the bottom of every post we make, which makes it easier for everyone to see our history each time. I don’t have a computer to send the link. 
 

Feel free to pop onto other people’s threads if you want to have a chat or ask them questions about their journey. 
 

Have a happy day☀️

[manymoretodays]

MattNNN:

 

 

 

[MattNNN]

Ok, here is my current signature:

-First started taking Seroquel and Zoloft in 2008.
-October 2022 Doses: Seroquel = 300mg, Zoloft = 37.5mg
-May 2023 (Current Doses): Seroquel = 156.25mg, Zoloft = 37.5mg
-Current Plan: Decrease dose of Seroquel by 6.25mg per month.

I think that gives all the necessary details without being too long.

[Carmie]

Thank you so much for putting in your signature @MattNNN How have you been doing? 
 

You’re still on a high dose of Seroquel, so your tapering plan sounds good. You’re tapering under 10% a month. You probably know that once you get to the smaller doses you won’t be able to keep going by 6.25mg per month, but will have to lower the mg to stay under the 10% of the previous dose per month. 
 

You’ve done well in tapering your Zoloft down to 37.5mg. 
 

Once you get down to a low level of Seroquel, if you’re still planning on getting off Zoloft, it might be a good idea to stop the Seroquel tapering and taper off Zoloft first. The Seroquel might still help you to sleep as it’s sedating, and it might thus help with the Zoloft taper. Just check out the thread entitled: “ Which multiple psych drug to taper first?” in the tapering section, if you haven’t done so already. Antipsychotics though can have serious side effects, so it’s good that you’re tapering the Seroquel. I was originally on 300mg as well, and I’m down to 3.45mg now. 
 

Wishing you all the best with your tapering💛

[MattNNN]

It's interesting that you mention that the taper would be exponential decay. I thought the taper could be linear.

As you have tapered Seroquel, did they put you on any other medication as you got closer to zero? I heard that at ATMC they put people on Depakote once they get to the final stages of the antipsychotic taper. Not sure if you did that.

[Carmie]

Hey there @MattNNN, 

 

Yes, the amount we taper becomes smaller and smaller as we get lower in doses, so that we can stay under the 10% of the previous dose per month. I’m only tapering by 1.5% or so every six or seven weeks or longer because if I tape any quicker my symptoms get really severe. All the meds I’ve been put on and off have really destabilised my brain. A lot of people can do the 10%, but then there are others, like me, who have to go even slower. 
 

No, I didn’t go on any other meds to help with withdrawals, I’ve seen lots of horrific stories on here of people going on different meds, which they thought might help their withdrawals, but they made things even worse. I personally will never take any psychiatric meds again, I’ve gone through so much torture with them. Akathisia was so torturous, and if I go too quickly I can get that again. 
 

Hope you have a good day💛

[MattNNN]

By the way, I am looking for a doctor who can prescribe meds, but also believes in helping people eventually get off of their meds (I live in Fort Myers, FL). I was thinking of starting a new thread about that, but I don't want to start a new thread if someone has already has a thread about this.

[MattNNN]

I'm having a rough time with my Seroquel taper. I had gotten all the way down to 144mg, but then had to bring it back up to 156 for the past 20 days, and tomorrow might even have to raise it to 162.5mg.

I feel like everything is falling apart. I need to find a new doctor to prescribe me meds as I will run out within two months. I've been having horrible mood swings. I'm depressed.

Right now I live with my dad. He pays most of the bills, but sometimes complains that the bills are piling up, including for many vitamins that I take. I have a job as an English teacher and I can usually cancel classes if I am unable to attend.

Based on my external circumstances, I suppose there is no reason to think that everything is falling apart, but it sure feels that way.

[FeralCatman]

Hello MattNNN. I took 3 years and 4 months to slowly taper down from 700mg of Seroquel. This was before I found this web site. As it turns out that was too fast especially in the end when I did not know about making liquids or using a scale to make capsules or for shaving/cutting pills. I definitely paid for not having that knowledge. I am 2 years off the Seroquel and still recovering before starting another taper. You are doing the right thing with your current plan to hold or go back up slightly. Wait until you feel stable before making any more changes and then go slowly and carefully. Your nervous system will thank you for it. Slower is faster.😉✌️😺😺

[MattNNN]

@FeralCatman I've read the 14 page PDF you wrote out. It is very helpful. I've read through the main body of the article twice, but I am still busy reading all the links you gave to external websites. Thank you for writing it.

By the way, what did the end of your taper look like? I'm very curious what happens when someone gets below 25mg, especially when they are below 6mg.

[FeralCatman]

@MattNNN I'm glad what I've written and posted has been helpful. Unfortunately below 100mg is where I went wrong. Down to that point I had a pretty good hyperbolic taper going but didn't really know that's what I was doing I just happened to get things mostly right and went by how I felt. At the time I had not yet found this website and so fell into the trap of thinking that I was getting to a low dose so it didn't matter as much where as it actually mattered more. I also fell into the trap of believing that at the low doses it was 'Only an antihistamine' and so started thinking of it as more like Benadryl and the literature I had at the time supported that idea. Seroquel is of course not at all like Benadryl. I also did not know about making liquids, compounding pharmacies, tapering strips, or crushing pills and weighing out powder for making capsules and liquids. So below 100mg I cut twice by 12.5 mg down to 75mg and did okay. So then I did it again down to 50mg and did okay. This reinforced the 'Only an Antihistamine' theory and I didn't really learn about the importance of histamine until well after I was off the Seroquel. Then for the rest of my taper I did 1/4 tablet at a time so 6.25mg drops down to zero. At the time I didn't know how to go any slower or smaller other than cutting pills. Not only did it become a linear taper but the drops were too big too fast as I was in a hurry to get off of it but didn't know any better and my doctors kept telling me I didn't need to go that slow. They were wrong. It was way too fast. So, I jumped off at 6.25mg which in retrospect was too high. It took about 2 weeks after I got off of it to start to suffer and then things really went downhill a few months later and were pretty bad for awhile but now things are slowly recovering. This delayed jump in misery actually seems to happen to quite a few people for largely unknown reasons. So, lesson learned, the lower the slower and the lower the smaller. As a result of what I did I am now paying the price with an extended bout of misery which is very slowly improving. The fall of 2021 was pretty miserable and at the same time I tried stopping my Allegra which was a bad idea. I should have waited at least a year before changing anything else because that really muddied the waters.

 

My recommendation to you is to stick with the 10% lower and slower rule and you should do a bit better. Listen to your body very carefully. Don't push. As you get lower in dose this becomes more important. If it gets tough then take a break until you can start again. Slow down and reduce the percentage if needed. Taper to below 1mg at a minimum. Don't rush it, it's not a race. The only goal is getting off of it eventually so don't try to stick to a specific timeline or end date and get impatient. You will probably pay for it and regret it and I will have to refer to this post and say I told you so which I definitely wouldn't want to do. It sucks. Don't do it to yourself. Slower is faster (and most likely less painful). 😉✌️😺😺

[manymoretodays]

Hi MattNNN,

I'll try and get you some more links to topics that may be helpful in this.......what I would consider....... planning stage prior to further tapering.  Good job on getting to your signature.   I'd suggest that you might add in the Lithium Carbonate to your initial drugs mentioned in 2008, and then note you tapered some and went off of it, and then on to Lithium orotate(date when this started and how much).  Buspar could go in their somewhere as well.  Easy access:  Accountsettings/signature

On 5/12/2023 at 3:04 PM, MattNNN said:

Hi, everyone, I'm new to this site. 15 years ago my mother died and I was placed onto Seroquel, Lithium Carbonate, and Zoloft. At one point I was also on Buspar.

I started to taper my medication in August of 2021. I was able to quit Buspar in six weeks, and quit Lithium in four weeks by switching to Lithium Orotate. I was also able to decrease my Zoloft from 175mg to just 37.5mg over the course of about a year, which was very easy until I got down to the last 50mg.

 

 The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

*Why taper by 10%(or less) of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Tips for tapering sertraline(Zoloft)

 

Tips for tapering off quetiapine(Seroquel)

On the Seroquel, it's good that you began reducing the amount you were tapering when you got to 200 mg.  Somewhere around about 200 mg, Seroquel switches the way it works and goes to histamine receptors versus dopamine receptors being involved.  So once getting to 200 mg, it's even more important to reduce by 10% or less of each previous dose.  Which you did do, as far as I can tell.  What you are experiencing now, as far as challenges go may be related to WD(withdrawal symptoms cummulatively) OR the change in the way the Seroquel actually works now.

So updosing, and then waiting a couple of weeks before updosing further may work out well for you now in feeling more mentally stable.  If you updose by small increments you may find your sweet spot sooner, before losing all the ground you've made.  At that point you may just want to HOLD for awhile too.  And read, and plan more, while carrying out your usual activities without as much distress you are currently reporting.

 

Is it mostly mental stuff symptoms now?  Any physical symptoms?

 

You may also decide to further taper the Zoloft prior to resuming the Seroquel taper too.  I think Carmie discussed that above.

This is the reinstatement topic below, some of which does apply to updosing though, so worth your looking at:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Topics explaining more around what happens when we try to get off our psychiatric drugs:

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

WD symptoms that can be applied to coming off most any psychotropic medications:

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

What healing often looks like:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

 

Topics we have on:

Lithium orotate

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

Even a topic on the:

Alternative to Meds Center(ATMC that you mentioned in a post) and we are not great fans of their methods to date

 

I'm going to move your last stand alone post, from last Thursday into your topic here now too.  It's always best to put your questions around your case into your Introduction topic.  And hopefully more members will come round to offer you kind loving support too, and ideas for dealing with present symptoms you are experiencing as well.

 

We do have a whole Symptoms and Self Care section/forum too, where you can find lot's of great ideas to cope with symptoms that don't involve additional drugs, or what we call non-drug coping.

 

I'll also add in here:

Also see:  How to Do a Site Search on Surviving Antidepressants

and: How to find just about anything on this site

to see if a topic already exists(to ask a question, or comment on) before starting a new one, especially if wondering if anyone is experiencing a symptom like yours.  We have so many topics on so many different things and so hopefully this will help you find what you need going forward.

 

I do have a computer and don't mind at all gathering information and providing links to topics, and supporting members continual empowerment and learning while they taper and get started here.  In other words you are doing fine.  It can be difficult navigating the site until you get used to it.

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your tapering, give updates,  keep a record of your journey, have a little reference file to refer to, and talk with us all.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

Edited June 6, 2023 by manymoretodays
more, finishing up after computer glitch of my own!

[MattNNN]

@manymoretodays Is it possible to change the data on the left side of my "Profile" page? I know how to change my signature, but not how to change my Profile.

[MattNNN]

@manymoretodays Ok, thank you for all the information. I'll be reading through it all over the next several days.

Edited June 6, 2023 by MattNNN

[MattNNN]

@FeralCatman @Carmie Have you noticed any changes in your personality or intelligence since discontinuing or reducing Seroquel? Obviously I mean after the withdrawal period is over. I feel like I have become much more mature, more intelligent, but also more humble over the past 6-12 months, but I can't tell how much of that is temporary withdrawal and how much is a permanent change. I'm not in Seroquel withdrawal right now, so I wonder if the changes are permanent, that is to say, that having a higher dose of Seroquel may have been preventing these personality changes from coming out sooner. It's also noteworthy that last year I turned 30 and soon I will be 31, so I don't know how much of this is just the nature of getting wiser as you get older.

[FeralCatman]

@MattNNN I am noticing lots of changes however I don't have any way of knowing if they are permanent or what is causing them. I have been heavily medicated since 1994 and I was very young then so I don't really even know what normal is anymore  or what my baseline is so I am basically starting over so I can't really give you an answer to your question.

[Carmie]

On 6/9/2023 at 8:31 PM, MattNNN said:

@FeralCatman @Carmie Have you noticed any changes in your personality or intelligence since discontinuing or reducing Seroquel? Obviously I mean after the withdrawal period is over. I feel like I have become much more mature, more intelligent, but also more humble over the past 6-12 months, but I can't tell how much of that is temporary withdrawal and how much is a permanent change. I'm not in Seroquel withdrawal right now, so I wonder if the changes are permanent, that is to say, that having a higher dose of Seroquel may have been preventing these personality changes from coming out sooner. It's also noteworthy that last year I turned 30 and soon I will be 31, so I don't know how much of this is just the nature of getting wiser as you get older.

I can’t really tell Matt because I’ve had CFS for three decades and I’ve had cognitive problems and severe brain fog for that long, I’m always in lala land, everything seems surreal to me. 
 

Glad to hear that you’re noticing yourself mature, that does come with age too though, as you said. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[MattNNN]

Is it common to get angry more easily when in Seroquel withdrawal? I find that recently I have been wanting to yell at people a lot more than usual.

[FeralCatman]

11 hours ago, MattNNN said:

Is it common to get angry more easily when in Seroquel withdrawal? I find that recently I have been wanting to yell at people a lot more than usual.

I have seen people talk about this coming off of multiple drugs other than Seroquel and I know that this happened to me and sometimes still does.

[MattNNN]

@FeralCatman @Carmie @manymoretodays
On 6/5, I increased my dose of Zoloft from 37.5mg every day to alternating between 37.5mg and 50mg. Then, on about 6/14, I increased the dose to 50mg every day. I did this because I was feeling depressed due to my Seroquel taper, and I had already increased my dose of Seroquel to 162.5mg.

 

Today I woke up at 6am when I normally get up between 8:30am and 10:30am, and I worry that I am becoming manic, but not in the pleasant way that I have experienced before. I'm wondering if I should go back down to 44mg per day or even 37.5mg per day of Zoloft in order to avoid mania (if that is what it is) getting worse. Of course, I have already made a lot of changes to both my Seroquel and Zoloft in the past 2-3 weeks, so I'm not sure that one more dose change will make things any better.

 

One other thing I should note is that recently I have been feeling both emotional and physical withdrawals from Seroquel, which complicates matters.

[FeralCatman]

@MattNNN This question is best answered by one of the Moderators. I will say that switching doses frequently and alternating doses tends to be destabilizing and disruptive and changing both medications close together or at the same time muddies the waters and makes it difficult to tell what is doing what. However, one of the moderators is best equipped to help you with this. I wouldn't change anything else until you hear something from one of them.

[MattNNN]

Are there any good links to posts about Serotonin Syndrome?

 

Recently I was worried that I was getting a mild case of Serotonin Syndrome, so I made an emergency cut to my dose of Zoloft.

 

The Serotonin Syndrome has gone away but now I'm dealing with Zoloft withdrawal.

 

I wonder if it involved an interaction with a suppliment I was taking, such as Rhodiola or Ashwaganda.

[MattNNN]

I just realized that I cut my Zoloft by 31% (15.6mg) within the past 34 days, which might help to explain why I am feeling such severe withdrawals.

In my defense, usually I would follow the 10% per month rule, but I was only above the 37.5mg dose for about a month before I brought the dose back down to 37.5mg to prevent mania/hypomania and serotonin toxicity.

 

Between June 22 and July 11 I was back down to 37.5mg, but even that left me with some hypomania (the tiring type, not the type I could enjoy) and probable mild serotonin syndrome, so I decreased the dose again to 34.4mg, I dose I have been on now for 15 days.

The hypomania is gone, and the serotonin syndrome is gone too, so those problems are solved. But those problems have been replaced with a new set of problems. I alternate between severe depression and mild depression, with the switch happening once every few hours. I also sweat a lot when I sleep at night.

 

At this point I probably just need to stay at the current dose for a month or more. Due to the symptoms I was experiencing before, going back up is not an option.

[Altostrata]

Hello, @MattNNN

 

Please take care to post questions about your situation here in your Intro topic, as they can get overlooked in other topics.

 

Yes, you can cause odd symptoms by adding in neuroactive supplements such as rhodiola, nootropics, etc. These may not be serotonin toxicity.

 

Quote

 

-Recent Zoloft Doses
     -October 2022 to May 2023: Z = 37.5mg -June 2023: Z = 50mg, then 37.5mg -July 2023: Z = 34.4mg

-Recent Seroquel Doses
     -October: S = 300mg / -November: S = 250mg / -December: S = 200mg -January & February: S = 175mg / -March: S = 162.5mg -April: S = 150mg / -May: S = 156mg / -June & July: S = 162.5mg

 

 

It appears you have been frequently changing your Zoloft dosage as well as your Seroquel dosage. It's also possible your "hypomania" was a result of your changes in Seroquel.

 

Please note that since you have been taking Seroquel for 15 years, you will need to taper it very carefully to avoid withdrawal symptoms that might be mistaken for symptoms of psychosis and could get you sent back to the hospital to be medicated with lots more drugs.

 

This is a site for going off drugs so as to avoid withdrawal symptoms. To minimize confusion about withdrawal symptoms, we advise changing only one drug at once. Drinking alcohol, adding neuroactive supplements, taking other drugs, etc. can cause symptoms that also confuse the entire picture. It's important not to fiddle with your drugs and to take a consistent dose at a consistent time each day.

 

Please let us know when your dosing schedule has been consistent for a month, and what drug you want to taper in a systematic, responsible way.

 

 

[MattNNN]

@Altostrata Yes, I was working with some incompetent alternative medicine doctors who told me to taper my Seroquel too fast. I've learned from my mistakes.

[MattNNN]

Are there any bad interactions with the supplements I am taking now? Check my signature at line #9.

[Altostrata]

Please use search in the Symptoms forum to see discussions of your supplements.

[MattNNN]

I'm tapering Zoloft right now (previously 34.4mg, now 31.25mg)  . My withdrawal involves depression that is way worse at some times of day than at others.

 

After I have stabilized at this dose, I am going to stop tapering Zoloft and start tapering Seroquel again. The rewards for tapering Seroquel tend to be much greater (losing weight for example).

 

I'd also say that my withdrawals from Zoloft are worse than my withdrawals from Seroquel, which may be because my Zoloft dose is much lower.

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, MattNNN said:

I'd also say that my withdrawals from Zoloft are worse than my withdrawals from Seroquel, which may be because my Zoloft dose is much lower.

 

This is possible, though you'll need to be careful tapering Seroquel also, so as not to cause pseudo-psychosis symptoms as withdrawal symptoms.

 

Have your Zoloft withdrawal symptoms resolved? We advise not tapering any of your drugs on top of current withdrawal symptoms, you could get more destabilized.

[MattNNN]

I've been on this dose of Zoloft for 30 days and in the past 3 days things have finally started to return to normal.

I plan to stay on this dose for another 15 days before deciding what to do or what to cut next.

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, MattNNN said:

I plan to stay on this dose for another 15 days before deciding what to do or what to cut next.

 

Since you're only just stabilizing, I might give tapering a rest for longer than 15 days. See how it goes. You'll want to be well past withdrawal symptoms to reduce anything.

[MattNNN]

Yeah, right now it's day 37 at this dose and I just realized that I am still having withdrawals.

 

I think I'll wait until day 60 before I taper again.

[Altostrata]

Please consider a smaller reduction next time, so you can recover within a month.