John Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 38 minutes ago, Altostrata said: It doesn't mean anything relevant to tapering. Keep tapering the Effexor XR form containing coated beads, by bead-counting or weighing the beads. Thank you. What do you think about my other post where the weights varied from 95mgs to 112 in weight? Is it possible why I feel like this after tapering for so many years? On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 12, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 12, 2023 Approximate is the best you can do. I do not think that variance of a few hundredths of a mg one way or the other makes much difference at 30mg, that's not a particularly low dose. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Altostrata said: Approximate is the best you can do. I do not think that variance of a few hundredths of a mg one way or the other makes much difference at 30mg, that's not a particularly low dose. So could it be me? I had this exact same feeling when I went cold turkey in 2010 and again got it in 2014 and recovered until again a few weeks ago. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
John Posted November 16, 2023 Author Share Posted November 16, 2023 On 11/12/2023 at 6:00 PM, Altostrata said: Approximate is the best you can do. I do not think that variance of a few hundredths of a mg one way or the other makes much difference at 30mg, that's not a particularly low dose. You know Alto, all these years of tapering and now realizing what these 3 crashes are is akathisia. I've been reading all about it and suddenly realized this is what it was/is. I don't so much have movement issues; it's more the gloom dread, and fear where all thoughts and events are amplified by 100 fold, causing me to feel like literally I'm going to go crazy and the the world is ending around me. I do pace because I'm somehow looking for a reprieve and never find it. Or I'll rock my foot back and forth in a nervous motion. To verify further that this is akathisia, all 3 times I had this was about 3 months after I either went cold turkey (the first time), the 2nd and now 3rd time 2 month after my last taper. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 16, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, John said: I don't so much have movement issues; it's more the gloom dread, and fear where all thoughts and events are amplified by 100 fold, causing me to feel like literally I'm going to go crazy and the the world is ending around me. I do pace because I'm somehow looking for a reprieve and never find it. Very possible that, as you have guessed, this is not true akathisia this time around, but your fear of akathisia. If you become highly anxious about tapering, you might stop tapering for a while until you feel more confident. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 16, 2023 Author Share Posted November 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Altostrata said: Very possible that, as you have guessed, this is not true akathisia this time around, but your fear of akathisia. If you become highly anxious about tapering, you might stop tapering for a while until you feel more confident. But this feels exactly how it feels like it did 3 months after going cold turkey in 2010 and in 2014 when I was tapering too much when I wasn't stabilized. This time I have no idea why this happened. These feelings are like nothing I ever felt before I started taking Effexor in 2007. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 17, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 17, 2023 Perhaps you will wish to stop tapering until you feel better or more confident. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, Altostrata said: Perhaps you will wish to stop tapering until you feel better or more confident. I fully intend to, but I've been tapering 5% every 8 months, a super slow and low amount. I don't know how much slower I can go. Can feeling like this be caused by *taking* the Effexor? Before I tapered, I was on 75mg and beginning to get panic attacks right before I went cold turkey. I do know that this drug can actually cause anxiety, but can it at less than 31mgs? On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 19, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 19, 2023 Skipping doses, taking daily drugs off-schedule, or drinking alcohol can cause the symptoms you describe. You can also scare yourself by cycling your own anxiety. An adverse effect of a drug would occur regularly sometime after a dose, not randomly. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, Altostrata said: Skipping doses, taking daily drugs off-schedule, or drinking alcohol can cause the symptoms you describe. You can also scare yourself by cycling your own anxiety. An adverse effect of a drug would occur regularly sometime after a dose, not randomly. Nothing changed with my taper schedule. I dropped only 5% of my previous dose in August, and by October I started getting that same odd feeling I got during my cold turkey in 2010 and 2014. Then about 2 weeks ago started the pacing, loss of appetite, severe anxiety and loss of interest in everything I enjoy. I will add that I've been taking 10 to 20mgs of propranolol on and off for a few months now for when I got pvcs, and for the last year I've been using topical minoxidil 6% mixed with finasteride 0.3%. I've noticed the usual side effects with finasteride such as a lower PSA, (0.87 when the year before was 1.3), testicular ache, decreased semen volume. I've been reading this drug causes anxiety and depression in some people. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 19, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, John said: Then about 2 weeks ago started the pacing, loss of appetite, severe anxiety and loss of interest in everything I enjoy. This doesn't sound like akathisia, it sounds like withdrawal symptoms. 11 minutes ago, John said: for the last year I've been using topical minoxidil 6% mixed with finasteride 0.3%. The addition of this other drug may cause drug-drug interactions producing the symptoms you describe. We've been trying to help you for a year without knowing you're taking this additional drug. Please update your signature. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 19 minutes ago, Altostrata said: This doesn't sound like akathisia, it sounds like withdrawal symptoms. The addition of this other drug may cause drug-drug interactions producing the symptoms you describe. We've been trying to help you for a year without knowing you're taking this additional drug. Please update your signature. I did just quit both the propanolol and topical finasteride. I keep worrying that these symptoms are some magical new disorder, and not the drugs or withdrawals. Meanwhile I never had this before Effexor. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
John Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 44 minutes ago, Altostrata said: We've been trying to help you for a year without knowing you're taking this additional drug. Please update your signature. OK I figured out how to update. Alto, how could dropping only 5% of the 32mgs of Effexor XR have such an extreme effect on me this time? I've been dropping 5% every 8 months the last 5 times, and nothing like this has happened since I was dropping in 2014 at 5% every month. I felt this coming on ever since the end of August when I dropped and continued to get more and more anxious until I "broke" 2 weeks ago. I will add that im also waking at 430am the last few nights which is disheartening since the last 2 times on 2010 and 2014 I slept through the night. One good thing though I generally feel better at night and my appetite returns. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 19, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 19, 2023 You should taper finasteride. Stop changing anything else while making this drug change. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Altostrata said: You should taper finasteride. Stop changing anything else while making this drug change. I can't since it's topical. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 19, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 19, 2023 Use less. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/19/2023 at 5:34 PM, Altostrata said: Use less. OK will do. I also reinstated my previous dose yesterday (6 beads added). I first took it yesterday morning, wasn't sure, but seemed a little better by the end of the day. Ive read that a Prozac bridge works a lot with Effexor to discontinue. I've also read that it makes people going through Effexor withdrawal feel better. Do you think it would be worth trying? I'm a little afraid to do anything because it seems like I get this terrible nervousness and agitation that many do not get, and am afraid to make it worse. I'm also starting to question if this is a new organic disorder that I developed over the years of tapering, although I haven't experienced this for 9 years now until now when I was tapering 5% per month as opposed to the 5% every 8 months I was doing now. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
John Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 I think I found my answer for this time and the other 2010 and 2014 crashes. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 22, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 22, 2023 9 hours ago, John said: I'm a little afraid to do anything because it seems like I get this terrible nervousness and agitation that many do not get Nervousness and agitation are classic antidepressant withdrawal symptoms. On 11/19/2023 at 2:29 PM, Altostrata said: Stop changing anything else while making this drug change. You're changing Effexor XR while changing finasteride. Have you always had health anxiety? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, Altostrata said: You're changing Effexor XR while changing finasteride. Have you always had health anxiety? Yes I did, but you're confusing health anxiety with the extreme nervousness I have now. I was doing perfectly fine for 9 years dropping 5% every 8 months up until I dropped 5% in August. Now yes, maybe I'm being too paranoid or too much, but if I was any more nervous, I wouldn't even be able to go out of the house. Before this I had no issues functioning. I sometimes wonder if this isn't the withdrawal but some hidden disorder I acquired, although it does seem like a bit of a coincidence that the first time I got like this was in 2010 when I went CT, and in 2014 when I dropped too fast at 5% a month regardless of whether or not I felt stabilized. But why now? I would think 5% every 8 months is plenty of time to stabilize. I doubt the finasteride is to blame but I tried to think of anything else I was using thar would possibility cause this since I figured I was tapering the right way. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 24, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 24, 2023 On 11/19/2023 at 2:22 PM, John said: Alto, how could dropping only 5% of the 32mgs of Effexor XR have such an extreme effect on me this time? I don't know. Up to you to decide if your symptoms are health anxiety or withdrawal symptoms, or maybe from the finasteride, or a drug-drug interaction between Effexor and finasteride, or maybe from changing your finasteride dose or forgetting to use it for a couple of days, or maybe changes in another drug. We didn't hear from you for 2 years. On 10/8/2023 at 8:44 AM, John said: Vitamin B12: 1179 reference range 200-1100 How much vitamin B12 are you taking? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Altostrata said: We didn't hear from you for 2 years. What does that mean? On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 25, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 25, 2023 We don't know what happened over those 2 years, whether you added drugs or went off drugs. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 Just now, Altostrata said: We don't know what happened over those 2 years, whether you added drugs or went off drugs. I know I added my most up to date regimen. But I haven't taken anything other than the newly listed meds. I know now one knows me personally here, and I never went on this drug for a "disorder", it was because a GP wanted to look good to wyeth simply because my pulserate was a little high because I get a little nervous going to doctors. But since I went cold turkey coming off of Effexor after 4 years at the time I never experienced anything like I did then, in 2014 and now. This feeling is unnatural and way beyond anxiety. It's like being poked with a hot branding iron all day long for months on end. The overstimulation, fear, and nervousness is overwhelming. People I know with severe anxiety disorders have no clue what im talking about. It's not like I sit around all day worrying about if I'm healthy or not. I'm completely consumed in getting better because if the severity was any worse I wouldn't even be able to go to work. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 25, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 25, 2023 If you think it's withdrawal, you might updose. Did you ever review adverse effects of 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, Altostrata said: If you think it's withdrawal, you might updose. Did you ever review adverse effects of 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical? I did updose to my previous dosage. It was only 6 pellets more. I did this last Monday. I will say last night and the night before I'm starting to return to my usual sleeping patterns: not waking at 430am. And last night and now tonight the levels are getting lower of nervousness, but the next morning and most of the day is always the opposite back to nervousness and torture. I did review the minoxidil and finasteride, and there are large class action lawsuits and people claiming massive depression and anxiety from using and quitting finasteride. As far as adverse effects, there is nothing official in the way of anxiety or depression. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 25, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 25, 2023 You might be feeling better because you reduced minoxidil and finasteride topical. We can't tell what helped because you changed 2 drugs at once. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Altostrata said: You might be feeling better because you reduced minoxidil and finasteride topical. We can't tell what helped because you changed 2 drugs at once. Probably not the addition of the 6 pellets of Effexor right? On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
John Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 23 minutes ago, John said: Probably not the addition of the 6 pellets of Effexor right? I just want to verify if you know that if the brand name Effexor XR 75mgs beads are compatible with the same companies Effexor XR 150? I have a prescription for both, and mix the 75 beads with the 150s. I figure they're the same since the 150 is roughly double the weight of the 75. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 25, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 25, 2023 I have no idea what's going on. We recommend keeping variables to a minimum. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 27 minutes ago, Altostrata said: I have no idea what's going on. We recommend keeping variables to a minimum. Lastly I just want to verify if you know that if the brand name Effexor XR 75mgs beads are compatible with the same companies Effexor XR 150? I have a prescription for both, and mix the 75 beads with the 150s. I figure they're the same since the 150 is roughly double the weight of the 75. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 25, 2023 Administrator Share Posted November 25, 2023 Mixing beads from different capsules dosages brings in additional variables. I have no idea what's going on. We recommend keeping variables to a minimum. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 Well, I thought I'd give you guys an update since my last breakdown. On the night of December 3, I felt as bad as ever, but forced myself to put up the Christmas tree with my wife. As usual, as the ruminations and severe fear that ran through me as strong as ever worrying if this will go on for months kept running through me the whole time. I went to bed expecting the usual pain and anguish the next morning as I start the hell all over again. As i woke the next morning getting ready for work I had to stop and listen to how I felt; I felt nothing! No fear, dread, sweats, doom, nothing! I figured surely it'll come up soon enough as I drove to work. It never did, and I was back to my old self! Immediately all my interests, hobbies, appetite, and calmness came right back! No DL, DP, nervousness, nothing! It was amazing! This lasted for 3 weeks consistently. I thought it was over till about a week ago, when it all came right back, and it was heartbreaking. I know what most of you will say, that it's windows and waves, but how could it of just disappeared like that in 1 night and stay away for so many weeks, just to come back again? And for the record I didn't drop my dose at all during this time I intended to wait a few months until I did. And what's more baffling is that the last time this happened in November I dropped 6 measly pellets in August to 32mgs of Effexor. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Rhernan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Hi! Although I haven’t used Effexor I too have the symptoms come and go like you do, and for no apparent reason. It’s so weird and in a big way disheartening because we cannot plan life or do anything normal. on a total other note, I say in your medication list the you took a beta blocker for adrenaline/cortisol rushes. Did it help at all? I’m off my AD for 7 months and cannot sleep because of continual head rushes that keep me awake all night. My dr has mentioned taking a beta blocker several times but I’m so hesitant to add anything. - Prescribed Xanax for 2 weeks after knee surgery in 2016 (reaction to anesthesia) - cold turkeyed Xanax and was in hospital then bedridden - Found Ashton Manuel and crossed over to 15 mg’s Valium - Tapering off Valium with pills and compound 2016-2018 - Prescribed Remeron nightly in July 2017 for nausea, loss of appetite, weight loss and mood (1.875 mg’s) - Finished Valium taper July 2018 - on mirt from 2017-2021 slowly tapering - got down to .25 and got very ill, updosed to .50 mgs -slowly tapered and finished July 2023 -As of January 2024 in acute withdrawals and sleep is the worst! Link to comment
Mentor FindRest Posted January 11 Mentor Share Posted January 11 On 1/5/2024 at 8:51 AM, Rhernan said: My dr has mentioned taking a beta blocker several times but I’m so hesitant to add anything. @Rhernan Note that beta blockers will have to be slowly tapered when the time comes. 1988-1996 Various AD’s, all classifications. 1996-2019 Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg. 2019 Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr. Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr) Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr). Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr). Sep 28 - Oct 24: Prozac 10mg. Oct 24: Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg. 2020 Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020. 2021 Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA. 2022 Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy. 2023 Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai, Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR - 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazole, Synthroid, Premarin. Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate Link to comment
John Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 On 1/5/2024 at 9:51 AM, Rhernan said: Hi! Although I haven’t used Effexor I too have the symptoms come and go like you do, and for no apparent reason. It’s so weird and in a big way disheartening because we cannot plan life or do anything normal. on a total other note, I say in your medication list the you took a beta blocker for adrenaline/cortisol rushes. Did it help at all? I’m off my AD for 7 months and cannot sleep because of continual head rushes that keep me awake all night. My dr has mentioned taking a beta blocker several times but I’m so hesitant to add anything. Yes a small dose of propranolol 20mgs works wonders on the adrenaline for a few hours, but not the mental anxiety. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
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