John: Effexor withdrawal on a delay?

[John]

Probably doesn't matter, but I just found out the drug Finasteride which I used for about 15 years for male pattern baldness is now being investigated for anxiety/depression along with sexual side effects.  There's not much studied on this, but there are lawsuits being generated because of this.  I've been reading that people are taking Pregnenolone, since finasteride supposidly was an inhibitor of this hormone, and supposidly relieves anxiety.  I know this drug is a different animal than antidepressants, so i'm not sure if the phsychological effects of anxiety and depression is an effect of withdrawal, or only during use.  I will say that my first bout of withdrawal 3 years ago when I went cold turkey off of effexor was when I was still taking finasteride, and I stopped that drug about a year after, so I doubt these effects are due to finasteride, and is due to the Effexor.  Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, which is converted from testosterone, and is known to cause hair loss in men.  Finasteride blocks neuroactive steroids which are critical in mood regulation, modulators of the GABA receptor.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride

[btdt]

Probably doesn't matter, but I just found out the drug Finasteride which I used for about 15 years for male pattern baldness is now being investigated for anxiety/depression along with sexual side effects.  There's not much studied on this, but there are lawsuits being generated because of this.  I've been reading that people are taking Pregnenolone, since finasteride supposidly was an inhibitor of this hormone, and supposidly relieves anxiety.  I know this drug is a different animal than antidepressants, so i'm not sure if the phsychological effects of anxiety and depression is an effect of withdrawal, or only during use.  I will say that my first bout of withdrawal 3 years ago when I went cold turkey off of effexor was when I was still taking finasteride, and I stopped that drug about a year after, so I doubt these effects are due to finasteride, and is due to the Effexor.  Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, which is converted from testosterone, and is known to cause hair loss in men.  Finasteride blocks neuroactive steroids which are critical in mood regulation, modulators of the GABA receptor.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride

I read about this at a site designed for people who are affected they are paying for studies from what I understand it has been suggested those of us affected withdrawal from antidepressants do the same thing and pay for our own studies to be done. 

[John]

Is it me, or is it the withdrawal that makes me think that this will last forever?  Even today I notice a change in me for the better; I (as usual) felt good at night, woke up this morning not too bad, and so far the day has been a better one, and of course it's not totally gone, and so when I get my "spells" or if I think about it, it seems even worse, because when i'm starting to feel better, even though its not as intense, it seems to feel worse because it gives the illusion that it should be gone,and makes it all seem worse, although if I look at the overall progression, its getting better.  Does anyone else have this too?  Does everyone else from time to time panic and their withdrawal make them feel like this will never end?

[mammaP]

I think every one of us can relate to this John!  I'm glad you've had a good noght and a better day today.

Try not to analyse it too much, enjoy the moment! 

[John]

Thanks Mama. I noticed today that I have a little aggressive and annoyed moods thrown in for some reason. When I was tapering I would get like that too. I'm not really like that, and find it odd especially since my testosterone is so low. I'm sure this is a symptom of withdrawal, especially since last night I was having zaps and Lightheadedness.

[mattinsmom]

Hi John

 

Sorry that you are experiencing a growling/grumpy kind of day. Those are some of my hardest to deal with. I hope that things settle into place and peace visits you.

[John]

Hi John

 

Sorry that you are experiencing a growling/grumpy kind of day. Those are some of my hardest to deal with. I hope that things settle into place and peace visits you.

Thank you Mattinsmom, this usually is very limited and goes away after a day or two, but what hurts the most are these "nervous" feelings.  I'd take all the pain, zaps,anger, etc, but this akathisia/anxiety/nervousness is really kicking my butt!  Thank the lord my appetite and sleep is coming back so quickly compared to the last time I went off this hell drug cold turkey!  

 

I'm still waiting for my endo results, and about a month before this happened I took a toxic metal hair test.  It showed that my manganese level was higher than in the 95 percentile.  It was 5.3 ug/g.  Now i'm not sure if these tests are accurate or what, but I wonder what (if anything) I should do to address this?  Do regular Drs recognize and treat this?  I do know that manganese toxicity does affect the brain, and causes emotional issues.  

[mattinsmom]

I know absolutely nothing about hard metals or how they are treated. You are already light-years ahead of me with that knowledge. Sorry that I can't help. 

[Altostrata]

Is it me, or is it the withdrawal that makes me think that this will last forever?  Even today I notice a change in me for the better; I (as usual) felt good at night, woke up this morning not too bad, and so far the day has been a better one, and of course it's not totally gone, and so when I get my "spells" or if I think about it, it seems even worse, because when i'm starting to feel better, even though its not as intense, it seems to feel worse because it gives the illusion that it should be gone,and makes it all seem worse, although if I look at the overall progression, its getting better.  Does anyone else have this too?  Does everyone else from time to time panic and their withdrawal make them feel like this will never end?

 

Good description of waves and windows, John, with their frustration and discouragement. You might want to add to this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

Don't worry about heavy metals. They are not causing your withdrawal symptoms. Wait until you are fully recovered from withdrawal to deal with that, if you choose to. (Purging of heavy metals is another stock-in-trade for naturopaths, and of benefit to very few people.)

[John]

 

Is it me, or is it the withdrawal that makes me think that this will last forever?  Even today I notice a change in me for the better; I (as usual) felt good at night, woke up this morning not too bad, and so far the day has been a better one, and of course it's not totally gone, and so when I get my "spells" or if I think about it, it seems even worse, because when i'm starting to feel better, even though its not as intense, it seems to feel worse because it gives the illusion that it should be gone,and makes it all seem worse, although if I look at the overall progression, its getting better.  Does anyone else have this too?  Does everyone else from time to time panic and their withdrawal make them feel like this will never end?

 

Good description of waves and windows, John, with their frustration and discouragement. You might want to add to this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

Don't worry about heavy metals. They are not causing your withdrawal symptoms. Wait until you are fully recovered from withdrawal to deal with that, if you choose to. (Purging of heavy metals is another stock-in-trade for naturopaths, and of benefit to very few people.)

 

Thanks Alto, I'm going to add that description.  Like I said, I don't even know if this test was accurate, as i cant see how in the world I could have an overdose of manganese.  But it did alarm me when I got back the results, because when I looked up the symptoms, one of the symptoms were mood disorders, and it described how it can affect the receptors in the brain making me think possibly that it can be exacerbating the withdrawal.  By the way, I just got a call from my endocronologist confirming my March 3rd appointment.  They must of got the results in.  If its al normal, why should I have to go?  Probably for a co-pay. 

[John]

Well, i'm happy to report that for the last 3 days, although not perfect, had daytime windows!  As I said, as usual after 830pm til the morning was always a window for me, and now for the last 3 days the morning and afternoon has become pretty good as well! The the terror and fear during the day is down to a "tolerable" level, and allows me to function much better at work, and socialize. Because the stress of this has been lessened, I also noticed that my appetite has been returning, and I noticed that i'm obsessing about all of this less; before this all day long i'd be researching withdrawal syndromes and symptoms, and even reading facts and stories I knew about, since they'd be reassuring and make me feel slightly better.  Now my browsing consists of some of it, and some of the things i'm interested in which has nothing to do with ADs, disorders, or withdrawal.  I'm also not freezing cold anymore, and not "afraid" to be alone.  

 

3 years ago when I went through this took 4 or 5 months to begin to feel better.  I dont know this time if it was the reinstatement of 8 mgs I did last week, or that it's because I didn't go cold turkey  and tapered for 2 years until I got to this point, but this time around it took a  month to begin to feel better.  I wonder if my hormones are evening out (cortisol, testosterone).  I'm now holding at ~50mgs, and will wait til i'm consistently better to continue to taper.  Hope it continues!

[btdt]

Is it me, or is it the withdrawal that makes me think that this will last forever?  Even today I notice a change in me for the better; I (as usual) felt good at night, woke up this morning not too bad, and so far the day has been a better one, and of course it's not totally gone, and so when I get my "spells" or if I think about it, it seems even worse, because when i'm starting to feel better, even though its not as intense, it seems to feel worse because it gives the illusion that it should be gone,and makes it all seem worse, although if I look at the overall progression, its getting better.  Does anyone else have this too?  Does everyone else from time to time panic and their withdrawal make them feel like this will never end?

I know this well and expectation took the wheels off my healing cart in a big way at 18 months I had a long stable time for wks.. I thought I was done... and it came back in a bit different way.  I had a window where apathy was gone I felt motivated and dare I say happy.  It all went away.  

I felt like I could not do another 18 months of what I had been thru already.  I was crushed and it was a bleak time. 

Fear of what is next and the expectation... and trust in healing.. all these things combine to make this a bad scene. 

From what I had read there were windows and waves but in the bigger picture I had been lead to believe the healing is generally linear.. if you look long term.  That set back did not seem to apply to the formula and the bit of trust I had in the process shattered and all the worry of what is wrong with me I am not following the formula... more fear... and fear too it would never improve. I think the expectation that I would keep building on the healing I thought solid caused me distress.  

So many other things in life are linear... everything actually you build on the past you have built... you heal most things in a linear way we build our lives we follow formulas to some extent in most things we do it is all done in steps.  I feel comfort from all the things I do in a day that go by the formula 2+2 =4... so when I started to see healing and feel healing and it was soundly better than before.  I thought ok I get this.  

We resist in the beginning we all resist this healing none of us wants to believe what we have believed while taking the drugs was wrong... none of us wants to think our pills could cause all this distress we look for brain tumors and google ourselves silly or mad... and it takes time to accept this.  It takes experience too and help from others to guide us.  

Eventually if we study enough and take good care we get a bit of a handle on what is going on and think ok I got it... all these variables but the long term deal is healing will come with waves and windows and one day I will be done.  After all the resistance we then start to trust the new things we have learned just like we trusted the doctors and the pills we have learned a new way to be to live. 

When the 18 month wave hit it seems I was shoved backwards... like failing five years of study and having to go back and repeat it.  Generally speaking failure of this magnitude in life comes with some sort of warning one would at least have a clue the study was not going so well and maybe expect some sort of fallout.  When I talked about the 18 month wave I got no support around the issue so the new belief system was telling me I did not fit.  That caused fear that maybe I would have to go back to google and find what was really wrong with me.  It caused anger too I was angry and did not want to go back to purgatory... I had done nothing wrong it felt like such a punishment at the time. 

While in public view I was getting no support in the private aspect of the other site I was getting people privately telling me they had the same thing at 18 months to a greater or lesser extent.  I was not the only one and I have written and talked about this in other places since.  

I think if I had known it was possible to back slide around that time I would have been prepared... it would have helped to know what others experienced when they had this but the fact that it was even possible helped immensely.  At the time it seemed all the people who contacted me were new to it too and none of us had a mentor who could say this is possible and you will still heal... your system just over shot a bit and now has to go back and make more detailed repairs to do this it has to shut some things down.   So back you go.  

I know what your speaking of John is not this it is the same principle tho... the idea the fear that your not healing is something very common but there is gold in these here pages and you will find that this is to be expected. 

At some point you will accept that this too is normal for those of us who are quite normal and going thru this abnormal experience. 

 

It is all good it is to be expected... it will pass and it will get better as time goes on. 

 

PS 

Many never get the 18 month hit... and perhaps the majority of you will not get it... and maybe some of you will but if you do it will pass.  Just know that the rug can be pulled and it is not the end of the world it is your system going back to fix something in more detail.  It will come back online when the repairs are made.  

 

Bit by bit that is how this goes and it is not always linear even in the long term aspect ... but if you look back to day one or the worst time... it is always getting a bit better generally.  

 

Having faith in it is a bit of an issue when you feel like you can't trust it but the big pictures is that even tho this process forces you to accept the risk you don't want to take as in more waves when you feel you should not have any more... you really don't have any choice in the matter... the body and brain will heal as it sees fit and so knowing and developing a strategy with the variables and accepting it is I have found the best plan.  

 

There are some things in life that can't be explained well you can't explain a color to a blind person no matter how hard you try some things take experience.  I am trying to put up some signs to help others find the path but the actual trip has to be done by each individual.  Trying to explain this to people who have not lived it is like describing blue to a blind person.. and they just can't get it same with doctors they just can't get it... I think knowing that bit of information in advance helps with our understanding of the situation... so when those who love us don't get it or doctors don't really get it.. we can make allowances... because they are blind to blue and blind to this.  I know it seems a lot is being asked of us and it is true a lot is being asked of us.. and I am not saying don't try to explain it keep trying but don't expect them to see when they are blind.  It takes some of the pressure off us to accept how things are with this situation in respect to other outside ourselves who don't understand and to ourselves... who are some times perplexed by the strangeness of of this experience. 

Hope this helps some. 

[btdt]

We all adapt in time to what is going on and having some signs and reassurance along the way is invaluable or at least it has been to me, so I really understand this.  Thanks again for a place to do this Alto!  If I had any money I would send you some.   

peace

[btdt]

" if it was the reinstatement of 8 mgs I did last week, or that it's because I didn't go cold turkey  and tapered for 2 years until I got to this point, but this time around it took a  month to begin to feel better."

 

I think it is both.  Glad your doing better.  

[John]

One thing I never knew is that panic disorder has psychological symptoms as well as physical. I read that in addition to physical symptoms, psychological symptoms consists of fear and terror of an object or situation. When I'm in my waves, I experience fear and terror, and while I was tapering before I crashed I experienced the physical symptoms of panic but not the psychological symptoms. Can this be that what I'm experiencing is simply panic disorder which morphed from physical to psychological symptoms?

[Meimeiquest]

Well, I never had a moment of psychiatric-style anxiety till I took Cymbalta at age 45. Had a lot since, but I really think it has been drug side effects and withdrawal. You might want to read Dr. Shipko's book, Xanax Withdrawal. Obviously you are not on a benzo, but he goes into anxiety disorders in some detail.

[Altostrata]

John, I must confess that I get very annoyed when you ask, over and over, "Do I have a psychiatric disorder or withdrawal?"

 

Memorize these withdrawal symptoms http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/325-papers-on-diagnosis-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

Once you do, you can help others identify withdrawal symptoms. This will be of great value to the community.

[John]

John, I must confess that I get very annoyed when you ask, over and over, "Do I have a psychiatric disorder or withdrawal?"

 

Memorize these withdrawal symptoms http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/325-papers-on-diagnosis-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

Once you do, you can help others identify withdrawal symptoms. This will be of great value to the community.

You shouldnt get too annoyed, since panic attacks are symptoms of my withdrawal.

[Altostrata]

I get annoyed at the repetition, John. Please stop it.

[John]

That's fine Alto.  You're misunderstanding me, and it's getting to a point where i'm afraid to ask for help, because I'm afraid to get yelled at, which isn't too helpful.  I'm going to cool it for awhile and look for support from family members.

[Hudgens]

I understand the persistant doubts and the awful need for definitive answers and reassurance. And re-reassurance. It's because the reassurance only reassures us for a little while and then the doubts creep right back in. This is a symptom of withdrawal. The best you can do is try and tell yourself this each time the doubts come back. During windows and later as the symptoms weaken, you'll be able to do this more and more effectively. One of the problems is that withdrawal takes away any of our usual "inner sustainment" and so you must look for it everywhere else but in yourself. Another awful truth is that there are no definitive answers in regards to just about anything you're going through. We're all in the dark here. But we're all still together in the dark.

 

I was very annoying in the first 3-4 months, I know how unbelievably gastly getting off Effexor can be. I also know it can be done, I was where you are now-although my trouble didn't really start until I got to the last few mgs-Now, that's all becoming only a memory, and a vague one at that. Now when I have a wave it seems more something like getting a cold-annoying but I know I'm basically sound and it will pass. This is a whole different feeling from-"I'm sick and will never be done with this awful thing". 

[John]

Thanks Hudgens.  I think you just described me perfectly!  It's true that the inner sustainment disappears.  I always describe it as my "mental strength" disappearing, and feeling like i'm living without a safety net.  Having no studies done on withdrawal, and all of the "professionals" who have almost no knowledge on this topic makes things even worse.  

[John]

I understand the persistant doubts and the awful need for definitive answers and reassurance. And re-reassurance. It's because the reassurance only reassures us for a little while and then the doubts creep right back in. This is a symptom of withdrawal. The best you can do is try and tell yourself this each time the doubts come back. During windows and later as the symptoms weaken, you'll be able to do this more and more effectively. One of the problems is that withdrawal takes away any of our usual "inner sustainment" and so you must look for it everywhere else but in yourself. Another awful truth is that there are no definitive answers in regards to just about anything you're going through. We're all in the dark here. But we're all still together in the dark.

Thanks Hudgens.  I think you just described me perfectly!  It's true that the inner sustainment disappears.  I always describe it as my "mental strength" disappearing, and feeling like i'm living without a safety net.  Having no studies done on withdrawal, and all of the "professionals" who have almost no knowledge on this topic makes things even worse.  

 

I was very annoying in the first 3-4 months, I know how unbelievably gastly getting off Effexor can be. I also know it can be done, I was where you are now-although my trouble didn't really start until I got to the last few mgs-Now, that's all becoming only a memory, and a vague one at that. Now when I have a wave it seems more something like getting a cold-annoying but I know I'm basically sound and it will pass. This is a whole different feeling from-"I'm sick and will never be done with this awful thing". 

[John]

Yes, 3 years ago when I was recovering from the cold turkey the cold analogy described my way of thinking of it as well.  Funny thing is how when I went through it again, it all went out the window!  

[Petunia]

Hi John,

I also understand because I have persistent doubts too and find myself continually looking for 'other' explanations for the way I'm feeling.

 

Hudgens does describe it very well,  outside of these online forums, there's just no way to get any validation or support for what we are going through because its not widely recognized.  Earlier in the week I was reading some blogs written by people with other chronic illnesses, some of them much worse than what most of us are going through, but I found myself a bit envious because at least what they have is recognized and understood by other people and their doctors. We are continually having to reinforce the truth of our situation alone.  

 

Perhaps reading back through your own thread or other peoples stories would help, I find that by reading about what other people are going through, it reinforces my own experience and understanding that this is withdrawal related.

[John]

Hi John,

I also understand because I have persistent doubts too and find myself continually looking for 'other' explanations for the way I'm feeling.

 

Hudgens does describe it very well,  outside of these online forums, there's just no way to get any validation or support for what we are going through because its not widely recognized.  Earlier in the week I was reading some blogs written by people with other chronic illnesses, some of them much worse than what most of us are going through, but I found myself a bit envious because at least what they have is recognized and understood by other people and their doctors. We are continually having to reinforce the truth of our situation alone.  

 

Perhaps reading back through your own thread or other peoples stories would help, I find that by reading about what other people are going through, it reinforces my own experience and understanding that this is withdrawal related.

Hi Petu, I agree; one of the hardest things about withdrawal aside from the actual feeling is that it's largely unknown, and anyone that you tell on the outside would just dismiss it as a need for me to go back on meds, since I needed them in the first place.  

 

One of the best blogs i've read was from James Heaney.  He pretty much describes it to a T, and goes very much into detail.

[Meimeiquest]

John, I will tell you one thing Dr. Shipko wrote. He said people are always wondering about the relapse rate. He said the relapse rate in people he treats short-term for anxiety ( with Ativan) is very high. But he said in people who take the drug long-term and go through the process of withdrawal, he finds very little relapse. He thinks that is because WD is "the ultimate behavioral treatment." Once you make it through WD, you've pretty much had to deal with all your issues.

 

How long to the wedding???

[John]

John, I will tell you one thing Dr. Shipko wrote. He said people are always wondering about the relapse rate. He said the relapse rate in people he treats short-term for anxiety ( with Ativan) is very high. But he said in people who take the drug long-term and go through the process of withdrawal, he finds very little relapse. He thinks that is because WD is "the ultimate behavioral treatment." Once you make it through WD, you've pretty much had to deal with all your issues.

 

How long to the wedding???

 

Lol April 12th!  And I'm scared hell!!  Not because of who i'm marrying, but because of the life change, and amplify that by 100x because of WD!

[Altostrata]

Thanks Hudgens.  I think you just described me perfectly!  It's true that the inner sustainment disappears.  I always describe it as my "mental strength" disappearing, and feeling like i'm living without a safety net.  Having no studies done on withdrawal, and all of the "professionals" who have almost no knowledge on this topic makes things even worse.

I haven't misunderstood you, John. You need to focus on self-soothing rather than going through the same cycle of working yourself up, posting about your anxieties, and wearing us out with the repetition.

 

As Dr. Shipko observed (thanks, meimei), getting through this forces people to learn new ways of being. Self-soothing is a skill you will be able to use after you recover, as well.

 

Re-reading your topic when these feelings arise is one way of self-soothing, as Petu suggested. It puts things into perspective.

 

At this point, it may also help you to spend your time on this site responding to others rather than focusing on yourself.

[John]

 

Thanks Hudgens. I think you just described me perfectly! It's true that the inner sustainment disappears. I always describe it as my "mental strength" disappearing, and feeling like i'm living without a safety net. Having no studies done on withdrawal, and all of the "professionals" who have almost no knowledge on this topic makes things even worse.

I haven't misunderstood you, John. You need to focus on self-soothing rather than going through the same cycle of working yourself up, posting about your anxieties, and wearing us out with the repetition.As Dr. Shipko observed (thanks, meimei), getting through this forces people to learn new ways of being. Self-soothing is a skill you will be able to use after you recover, as well.Re-reading your topic when these feelings arise is one way of self-soothing, as Petu suggested. It puts things into perspective.At this point, it may also help you to spend your time on this site responding to others rather than focusing on yourself.

Have you seen my post in the Windows and waves thread?

[Skyler]

Hi John, most of the folks here have had Windows and Waves. I've had them.. and expect to have them periodically until I've finished tapering as they are intermittent and an implicit part of the WD experience. I think you are looking for a time when they STOP completely.. there is a recovery and success thread below, I wonder if you have read any of the accounts. That's where you will find input from folks who have gotten thru to the other side. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-recovery-success-stories/

 

This is not a black and white thing.. There is no absolute, and my sense is you are looking for us to tell you when this infernal Merry-go-round will stop.. It will when you no longer take any psychotropics AND for some, this goes on until protracted WD ends. I guess there are exceptions, but for most the Windows and Waves eventually and mercifully come to an end. I'm not aware of having read any accounts where there was not a complete succession of Sx over time, or at least a very significant improvement. The thing is, how much time.. but from what I've read from your narrative, you will be okay.. as long as your impatience does not dictate the rate of your taper.

 

Hope this helps some..

[Altostrata]

John, I greatly appreciate your contribution to the windows and waves thread. You have real insight into what you're experiencing. You need to remind yourself of that more, rather than call on other people to remind you.

 

I would like to see more of your insight rather than your over-reactions.

[btdt]

Sensitivity during this time is quite common as well as needing the extra reassurance a cross word can cut deep.  That is how I was in the beginning to I could not force myself to focus and was all over the map.  I think when we get to some kind of peace we can easily forget how bad and scary it was at the start.  

I got in trouble all the time at pp about every day.  Hang in there John try rereading the thread some times it may have your answers just sitting there waiting.  I think too in early stages I would honestly forget that I had asked the question already.  I too needed just to talk to people who understood as I was scared...so very scared and had no support from people who knew cause nobody knew. 

I wish the world including the medical community  did better by withdrawal folks to help us deal with this maybe one day we can hope. 

[John]

John, I greatly appreciate your contribution to the windows and waves thread. You have real insight into what you're experiencing. You need to remind yourself of that more, rather than call on other people to remind you.

 

I would like to see more of your insight rather than your over-reactions.

Thanks Alto.  I just wish I can heal up more soon to contribute further.  You were also right about the endo tests.  I just got back from him, and my tests came back as follows:

 

ACTH was normal

T4, TSH: normal

Total Testosterone 279  ref 249-1000

Free Testosterone: 15.5 ref 16.5-80  LOW

Plasma cortisol: NORMAL!???

24 hr urine cortisol: 130 ref 4-50  HIGH

Prolactin: 3.5 ref 4.5-7.0 LOW

LH, FSH: both normal

 

Endo wanted to do a cortisol suppresion test, but then says it might not tell him anything.  I asked why after 8pm I start feeling better, he said it's a form of pseudo cushings, which is very general.  I also asked if the reason why I feel so nervous was due to the high cortisol, and he said of course.  Well, back to the real cure of all of this, which is time.

[Altostrata]

You might ask him what he knows about pseudo-Cushings. That seems like a fairly good description of what you're going through.

 

However, you do NOT want to take any drugs prescribed by an endocrinologist unless you really, really need them.

[John]

You might ask him what he knows about pseudo-Cushings. That seems like a fairly good description of what you're going through.

 

However, you do NOT want to take any drugs prescribed by an endocrinologist unless you really, really need them.

He actually said that to me; that it's a form of pseudo-cushings.  And, as you said, he doesn't know what to do about it.