Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted March 11, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 But thats part of my problem; chemical induced anxiety doesnt respond well to psychotherapy or relaxation techniques. Ive tried breathing, does nothing. My heart doesnt really beat fast, nor is my breathing impaired like as in a panic attack. It's a horrified, terrified and depressive feeling.Hi John, a good therapist can help you see how your own anxiety is fueling the drug induced anxiety, and how the drug induced anxiety is making you more fearful. Also, when my anxiety was sky high, back at the beginning of my taper, I had to detach myself from the anxiety which seemed jet propelled. Not an easy thing to do, and at least where I was concerned, discontinuing caffeine was an enormous help... As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
John Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Problem is 3 years ago I went to a psychologist, and as usual like all the rest of them, don't recognize the withdrawal syndrome. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted March 11, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 Problem is 3 years ago I went to a psychologist, and as usual like all the rest of them, don't recognize the withdrawal syndrome.You need to screen in advance John. I'm not sure what else to say... did you read the article EternalOptimist posted yesterday? As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
btdt Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 But thats part of my problem; chemical induced anxiety doesnt respond well to psychotherapy or relaxation techniques. Ive tried breathing, does nothing. My heart doesnt really beat fast, nor is my breathing impaired like as in a panic attack. It's a horrified, terrified and depressive feeling.Hi John, a good therapist can help you see how your own anxiety is fueling the drug induced anxiety, and how the drug induced anxiety is making you more fearful. Also, when my anxiety was sky high, back at the beginning of my taper, I had to detach myself from the anxiety which seemed jet propelled. Not an easy thing to do, and at least where I was concerned, discontinuing caffeine was an enormous help... And each time it comes you learn one thing even if you don't want to... cause we are learning all the time... it did not kill you it did not harm you it was an experience a nasty one but an experience that is time limited it will eventually go away. Noticing and knowing this helps some. I am not sure which meditations relaxation things you have tried but I have found practicing them when I am not in a bad state is the way to go... the body eventually learns the cues and falls in line faster. They all work better if they are going to with practice. I learned this in a pain clinic each day we did a different relaxation I found one I liked and did it on my own each night for most of the time I was there. After a few months of doing it every night I found I would hear very little of the tape as I would be asleep sometimes before the talking started. I think it was in part that my body read all the cues to what was coming next. I will admit that it did not work for me when I was in hard withdrawal and had insomnia I could not sleep with or without that tape and truth be told could not tolerate hearing it. So I went searching for other things and found a cd of the ocean. I tried a lot of things before something clicked with me. I put a meditation on here I think it was under the ptsd title or something like that. I tried tapping too It is a challenge for sure. If I can find the link to the meditation I will put it here. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
John Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Problem is 3 years ago I went to a psychologist, and as usual like all the rest of them, don't recognize the withdrawal syndrome.You need to screen in advance John. I'm not sure what else to say... did you read the article EternalOptimist posted yesterday? No, whats that? On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted March 11, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 Problem is 3 years ago I went to a psychologist, and as usual like all the rest of them, don't recognize the withdrawal syndrome.You need to screen in advance John. I'm not sure what else to say... did you read the article EternalOptimist posted yesterday? No, whats that? Look in the Current Events section, under Media. The most recent post. That type of info should make your WD complaints more credible. I know it's very difficult, especially given the way you feel, but you need to be able to advocate for yourself.. and becoming informed is a great way to start. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
John Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Problem is 3 years ago I went to a psychologist, and as usual like all the rest of them, don't recognize the withdrawal syndrome.You need to screen in advance John. I'm not sure what else to say... did you read the article EternalOptimist posted yesterday? No, whats that? Look in the Current Events section, under Media. The most recent post. That type of info should make your WD complaints more credible. I know it's very difficult, especially given the way you feel, but you need to be able to advocate for yourself.. and becoming informed is a great way to start. Thanks Skyler! On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Meimeiquest Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I think you might want to allow yourself to be an anxious person who is working on their anxiety....even if nothing triggered anxiety before WD, you are anxious now. Can you just be that and work on growing through it? These doctors don't provide info about the ultimate fail-to-withdraw patients. We know nothing of their histories, their lifestyle choices, how hard they worked in therapy. We just need to work on being our personal best. It seems to me you've worked a lot on the outside, maybe it is time to go inside? Very, very few of us will live well or easily without working hard on our inner lives. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old Link to comment
John Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 It seems to me you've worked a lot on the outside, maybe it is time to go inside? Very, very few of us will live well or easily without working hard on our inner lives. Worked on the outside? How so? If the anxiety is caused by a chemical influence, how is treating it as an organic disorder going to improve it? Its not GAD, or social anxiety or OCD. Its an extreme terror and fear for no reason. I wake up, and it's there. All day long as well. All normal thoughts spark horror, and I can't get a moments peace until the end of the night. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Meimeiquest Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I'm just speaking as a multi-drug taperer. I never had anxiety until Cymbalta. If you use your symptoms as an opportunity for growth, how can you lose? 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old Link to comment
btdt Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It seems to me you've worked a lot on the outside, maybe it is time to go inside? Very, very few of us will live well or easily without working hard on our inner lives. Worked on the outside? How so? If the anxiety is caused by a chemical influence, how is treating it as an organic disorder going to improve it? Its not GAD, or social anxiety or OCD. Its an extreme terror and fear for no reason. I wake up, and it's there. All day long as well. All normal thoughts spark horror, and I can't get a moments peace until the end of the night. Your still human... you have human dna a human brain... you were designed to work in harmony and your brain and your body will reset to what is right for it when it can... All you are experiencing now IS your body working to re establish itself... as in... your post..."until the end of the night" I know how much this sucks your right it sucks to the high heavens... but it could be a lot worse ...you still have a job a home a life... your way ahead of a lot of people here including myself... you also have us and the benefit of our experience... there are many things going in your favor not the least of which is this ... end of night calm. Use it to feed your body the things to help it. Relaxation.. deep relaxation I believe is where my body found solid ground to stand on to start the healing process and I had no breaks for months not at the end of the day not ever. Your ahead of many of us with much going in your favor it is a pain in the ass I know it is not what you wanted and surely not in the plan... but you found out early you found out about taper you have not been drugged 20 years... so much is going in your favor... please hear me. You got this.. so much is working in your favor... you can heal. i notice some of what Dr Healy has said bothers you... like some can't get off these drugs...I don't know about that. I wonder if he had seen me if he would say I was one of them... I will tell you what I know Staying on those drugs was going to kill me... that is what I know after 18 years my body said no more and my healing has been cold turkey and I lost my job my home my social standing my credibility friends love life some family all ability to function... stayed in bed... a long time... I could go on....maybe I would be one he would say cannot heal...yet I have made great stride from where I was and am so glad I am not drugged any more... I will NOT be drugged again... I know it. You know what maybe he is wrong in your case many many people got off these drugs... there are things he says I don't agree with they do not apply to me or my healing I don't do battle with him because I see he is making an attempt to do something at least... and he is the only one who is but as far as particulars... and healing I think you would be better advised to listen to the people who really know how to do this and that is the people who have done it.. Am I out of line maybe... it does not matter that much to me the point I am trying to make is he does not know you he is not living inside your body he has a job to do and looks at a lot of people we don't know what was wrong with them before they went on drugs... we know you had a heart rate that was normal and basically had nothing wrong when you went on ... from that I cannot see any reason you can't get off... What your having is par for the course in withdrawal it is not even the worst I have seen... it is about normal in a functional person who is getting off this type of medication. Your a normal person going thru an abnormal experience and it sucks to the high heavens but your going to heal from this and have a good life there is no reason you can't...none at all. It will take time it will be a pain... yes there will be bad days and good days. You will heal and when your done you will have your life intact this is all the best possible scenario... the best.... when it comes to withdrawal. All things considered you did a ct.. you reinstated all these things have to be taken into account. If I can improve after 18 years you can too. Please take those calm end of day times to feed your brain/body deep relaxation... it helps. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
btdt Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 here is one there are many WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
btdt Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Just stole this from Alto's post on self care... there is more there if you don't like any of these Recovery from withdrawal syndrome is gradual, inconsistent, and can take a long time. In the meantime, you can use psychotherapeutic techniques to lessen your anxiety about your condition, deal with long-standing emotional issues, and cope with symptoms.Many of the symptoms of withdrawal syndrome arise from autonomic nervous system dysfunction. The best way to treat this is to allow your nervous system to repair itself, to return to its "factory-installed" state.Here are topics about psychotherapeutic techniques you might be able to use to help the recovery process along.__________________________________________________COGNITIVE BEHAVIOR THERAPYFree online Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessonsBest CBT techniques for anxiety, depression, or getting through a wave?__________________________________________________MEDITATION AND MINDFULNESSEasing your way into meditationMeditation can heal the brain which can heal the mind and bodyMindfulness, Meditation, and Prayer After Brain InjuryPranayama Breathing for Anxiety and Depression__________________________________________________OTHER TYPES OF THERAPEUTIC TECHNIQUESBehavioral Activation Therapy: Getting out and doing things helps depressionThe Magic of Helping Others"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptomsEFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques)Blaming yourself for mistakes? Try this.Shame, guilt, and self-criticism The 5 revolutionary seconds"Forest bathing" reduces cortisol, aids mood, immune systemVirtual "forest bathing": Guided imagery for stress relief WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
Zenwind Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 So he is doing the testing because he is going to start you on another antidepressant? I have read from other users with nothing to back it up that effexor changes how your liver works and that is why you have to go so very slowly at the end of tapering. I do not know if this is true. If the Effexor is affecting your liver it may makes some sense to do this test. If it in some way relates to how effexor is changing your liver. Could you please ask him the name of the test if you can. I know you have a lot more important things to do but it may well prove helpful to others. If he did the test already it may be on a list you gave to the lab they could tell you. I just did some reading on gabepentin One site I went to a student was using it to get high the more he used the more he wanted but found he was tolerant to it after 4 days it would not have the effect he was seeking so he would wait days between use. He called it a depressant and the only one he really wants now after having tried many. the other site was about addiction tolerance... Common and Rare Side Effects for Neurontin oral - WebMD www.webmd.com/.../mono-8217-gabapentin+-+oral.aspx?...neurontin... Depression, Severe. High Blood Pressure, Severe. Loss of Memory, Severe. Mental Impairment, Severe. Easily Angered or Annoyed, Severe. Mood Changes ... I have not taken this one and can't give any personal experience. The name of the test is Genomind. It is the test of gene to find out how you metabolize psychotropic medicines. I took the test. I was slow metabolizer, most of the fields say "caution with SSRI and anti-psychotic" It was really good to know. 2004 Sept paxil 2005 July I quit Paxil(CT) Sept., acute WD/relapse then reinstated Paxil. In 5 days felt better. 2006 March quit Paxil (CT) again then April acute WD/relapse reinstated Paxil. In 5 days felt better. 2010 Oct. I had the same episode above 2011, I had a breast cancer (stage 1) and doctor changed Paxil to Effexor 37.5 mg. (she said effexor works for hot flushes and it's better for me) 2012 in May, Effexor dose was increased to 75 mg because it wasn't working much for my hot flushes. 2014 in May, I changed back to 37.5 mg. Because of few of the side effects I did not like. My breast cancer is now all cleared. 2012-2014 I was quitting effexor every 3 months without knowing the harmful consequences. no WD until 2014 Aug. 2014 2014 Aug 25 after 1.5 months of off Effexor, WD reinstated 75mg for 10 days and got adverse reaction then Finally found this forum 2014 Sept 1 reduced the dose to 37.5 2014 Sept 20 took antibiotics (amoxillin) for tooth implant which led me to terrible WDS again Oct 13 started to taper; took 4 beads out of 38. had one great week and Oct 21, after flu shot, acute WD I realized each cap has a different number of beads. Started to count 34 beads. Waves and Windows in 2 weeks interval. 2014 Dec. 28 Started Prozac bridge with my psychiatrist's instruction. Added Prozac 5mg 2015 Jan 07 started to taper Effexor 5 beads everyday 2015 Jan 13 Effexpr 0 beads +Prozac 1.25 ml (5 mg) +Klonopin 0.25 mg at night: since tapering off Effexor, feeling great, much less tinnitus and tingling pain 2015 Jan 22 increased Prozac to 10 mg due to the depression. supplement: fish oil 2400 multi Vt. Jan 8 changed to EPA 1200 + DHA 600 Link to comment
btdt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 It seems to me you've worked a lot on the outside, maybe it is time to go inside? Very, very few of us will live well or easily without working hard on our inner lives. Worked on the outside? How so? If the anxiety is caused by a chemical influence, how is treating it as an organic disorder going to improve it? Its not GAD, or social anxiety or OCD. Its an extreme terror and fear for no reason. I wake up, and it's there. All day long as well. All normal thoughts spark horror, and I can't get a moments peace until the end of the night. John I did not answer you question well I flew off the handle a bit maybe. I am sorry if I have alienated you. I do tend to be a bit of a lose cannon at times and even when I don't mean to I can give too much information and forget what the question was or forget to answer the question. This is the answer I should have given along with maybe all the other stuff I said which I still believe to be true but wish I had put in a nicer way. Our bodies have a feed back mechanism... I can't tell you now where I learned this. However if your still with me it goes like this ... if I hit my head in a fall .. the pain will go to my nerve to my brain but also to other parts of my body ...balance will be altered ... digestion I may feel sick to my stomach blood vessels will change I forget but think it is constrict. ..... all of that comes from outside he body... still it affects many systems inside the body. Now if I put my body in a tub of warm water the same sort of systems are taking in information I will feel comfort from the water warm and at ease... safe if it is my own tub and I control who comes in... balance will be altered maybe a bit to laying down... digestion will be relaxed I can feel tension ease out of my body ...blood vessels respond too don't make me look it ups... bet the get bigger but don't know... this affects my systems to a certain extent... Lets just suppose you lived your entire life doing one or the other of these things bathing or falling down hitting your head... which one do you think would lead to a more healthy body mind... I will take the bath tho I may be quite bored of it after awhile... over being hurt. I also have this idea that other more complex mechanism are affected in the brain.... it may be small to start with but we have to start some place. The first bit of relaxation I found or ease of any of this came from eft.... I found online and did... if you want I will send it to you just ask. The next was heat on my spine reported to increase norepinephrine and hearing the ocean ... i could not do the relaxation I shared above early on as it had words .... early on all words just tripped up my brain to do some ocd crap so I had to avoid all words tv included... it was all just food to feed the monster and i was not feeding the bugger... no way... so heat and waves... that was how I started. when i started I did not expect anything it was just a way to get thru the day the least painful thing I could think of ... my back hurt hence the heat... the waves to down out other sounds of people outside kids playing as noise was intolerable to me...but I had been in earplugs long already... I used head phones and turned the waves down low... layed with heat on my back on a 45 degree angle so as to not start up other symptoms and closed my eyes.... That was the first bit of relief I felt where I could say something eased... so I repeated it often I hope that was a bit nicer and more importantly I hope it helps you peace John... WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
btdt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 So he is doing the testing because he is going to start you on another antidepressant? I have read from other users with nothing to back it up that effexor changes how your liver works and that is why you have to go so very slowly at the end of tapering. I do not know if this is true. If the Effexor is affecting your liver it may makes some sense to do this test. If it in some way relates to how effexor is changing your liver. Could you please ask him the name of the test if you can. I know you have a lot more important things to do but it may well prove helpful to others. If he did the test already it may be on a list you gave to the lab they could tell you. I just did some reading on gabepentin One site I went to a student was using it to get high the more he used the more he wanted but found he was tolerant to it after 4 days it would not have the effect he was seeking so he would wait days between use. He called it a depressant and the only one he really wants now after having tried many. the other site was about addiction tolerance... Common and Rare Side Effects for Neurontin oral - WebMD www.webmd.com/.../mono-8217-gabapentin+-+oral.aspx?...neurontin... Depression, Severe. High Blood Pressure, Severe. Loss of Memory, Severe. Mental Impairment, Severe. Easily Angered or Annoyed, Severe. Mood Changes ... I have not taken this one and can't give any personal experience. The name of the test is Genomind. It is the test of gene to find out how you metabolize psychotropic medicines. I took the test. I was slow metabolizer, most of the fields say "caution with SSRI and anti-psychotic" It was really good to know. Thank you Zenwind I appreciate it peace WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted February 23, 2015 Administrator Share Posted February 23, 2015 John, it's been nearly a year since you posted here, how are you doing? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have been holding at 50mgs of Effexor for more than the last year, and it wasnt until about a month ago where Ive been feeling mostly normal everyday for the whole month. During this period of time, I seriously questioned if it was withdrawal or a new "disorder". Obviously it's the withdrawals and not any disorder, because it would be getting worse not better especially since im not on a therapeutic dose. There are times where I may get a "spark" of fear or a charged feeling, but since I know for sure what it is, I dont add fuel to the fire, and it quickly disappears. I can now say im 95% recovered, although I still have 50 mgs to rid myself of. For those of you who question what this is, or feel like this will never go, it does. Half of this battle is the knowledge that it does leave you, regardless if you are still partially on the med or off it completely (which would be a whole lot better). 1 On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
btdt Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I am glad you have become stable they say it is a lot easier after reaching a stable place. Still very slow regulated small tapers are needed to get completely off listening to your body as a guide as you go down. I know you have suffered a long time and being ok for a month is a blessing and since I did not taper I will not try to give any advice about it... just glad your better and glad you now know the cause of your problems and trust it... I think this is a major step. peace WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 5, 2015 Administrator Share Posted March 5, 2015 Please do let us know how you're doing, John. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Another update. Since my last post, I've felt consistently normal still, like I did before I started taking this poison over 10 years ago. Maybe sometimes every 3 or 4 weeks I get a 2 or 3 day period of time where i'll get a random symptom, like dizziness, zaps,or a flulike symptom, or a feeling of annoyance or anger. Odd thing is, is when I was in the throes of things, I never got those symptoms. Its very rare that I get my worst symptom, the horrible dread and fear feeling, and if it does come, it goes away sometimes in an hour or two. I'm still on those 50mgs, and waiting until I get no more symptoms, then i'm going to start dropping again. I never thought I'd get to this point, so to the small percentage of those that this gets real severe and long, IT DOES GET BETTER. I always thought some people never do, but it just seems that way because its so long and drawn out. Once you start to improve, it proves that it's the drug, and that it's not permanent. Knowing this is half the battle. Once you know what this is, and you actually are sure of it, you wont inflame this all, and symptoms will be milder and not last as long. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
LoveandLight Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 How long did it take you to stabilise on this dose? 2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare! On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect. Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan. Nightmare that could have been avoided! Link to comment
btdt Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I am glad you hear your doing so well thank you for the update WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
John Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Love and light, over a year. And it was a rough one at that. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
btdt Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 So he is doing the testing because he is going to start you on another antidepressant? I have read from other users with nothing to back it up that effexor changes how your liver works and that is why you have to go so very slowly at the end of tapering. I do not know if this is true. If the Effexor is affecting your liver it may makes some sense to do this test. If it in some way relates to how effexor is changing your liver. Could you please ask him the name of the test if you can. I know you have a lot more important things to do but it may well prove helpful to others. If he did the test already it may be on a list you gave to the lab they could tell you. I just did some reading on gabepentin One site I went to a student was using it to get high the more he used the more he wanted but found he was tolerant to it after 4 days it would not have the effect he was seeking so he would wait days between use. He called it a depressant and the only one he really wants now after having tried many. the other site was about addiction tolerance... Common and Rare Side Effects for Neurontin oral - WebMD www.webmd.com/.../mono-8217-gabapentin+-+oral.aspx?...neurontin... Depression, Severe. High Blood Pressure, Severe. Loss of Memory, Severe. Mental Impairment, Severe. Easily Angered or Annoyed, Severe. Mood Changes ... I have not taken this one and can't give any personal experience. The name of the test is Genomind. It is the test of gene to find out how you metabolize psychotropic medicines. I took the test. I was slow metabolizer, most of the fields say "caution with SSRI and anti-psychotic" It was really good to know. Are you sure that is the right name? I was looking at some discussion about it tonight and it did not have a good rep. "Modern pharmacogenomics at academic medical centers is a more advanced enterprise than using a SNP chip with content annotated against candidate-gene studies appearing in PubMed. The published genetic association studies are filled with false-positive associations, and most companies, including Genomind, do a poor job of filtering the quality studies (genome-wide with replication) from the junk. Modern genomic medicine has incredible promise, and we're using it every day in increasingly robust ways. OP's application is not one of them." http://www.reddit.com/r/genetics/comments/2e0pkl/recently_got_my_results_back_from_a_dna_test_done/ I know it is not a science site but still they seem to be up on what they are talking about. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment
John Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 I counted out 10 150mg Effexor XR capsules, and there was a disparity of about 20 beads. My method of tapering is that every few months I empty out the capsules, make each one the exact same amount, and then reduce accordingly. For instance, almost 2 years ago I crashed hard I guess because although I had withdrawal effects, I continued to drop small amounts. Anyway, after almost 2 years of feeling like hell, it all subsided and went away completely. Even though I was still down to 178 pellets, I felt fine. 6 months ago I decided to continue to drop, so I removed 2 pellets from the 178 pellets capsules I created. I felt ok, but not perfect, so after about 4 weeks it all died down again, and took out another 2 pellets. This time was not as easy as the last. I have lightheadedness, palpitations, anxiety, fear, albeit not as nearly severe as the crash was 2 years ago. Back to the disparity in the original capsules. if theres up to a 20 pellet difference, how can Wyeth say that theyre 150mgs when theyre not? What method do they use to calculate the mgs in a pill? Even though theres a big difference in the amount of beads, can they still be the same amount of mgs? If so, how is it that when I remove 2 beads I dont feel good, while in the past taking the unaltered yet uneven capsules resulted in no withdrawal effects? I've read in a few places and even heard from one of the psyciatrists recommended on this site that removing beads are not good to do. It disturbs the dosage, and that even though they have different counts of beads each pill has a set dosage. Then again, the Dr that said this also allowed me to go beyond my hour without telling me and charged me double which was $600. But he had my credit card info, so at least he's guaranteed payment. I've heard the reasons for the disparities in the capsules; theyre trying to save money, poor quality control, etc. But you can say that a few beads arent going to make a difference, yet taking 2 out of mine makes me feel sick. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 12, 2015 Administrator Share Posted November 12, 2015 John, I moved your post here. This is one of those "what should I do?" questions that belong in your Intro topic. A 150mg capsule contains 150mg of the active ingredient, venlafaxine. It also contains inactive ingredients: fillers, coatings, etc. 150mg is not the weight of the capsule. Drug manufacturers are permitted a slight variance in the amount of active ingredient in each capsule. They will also be of slightly different weights. Counting beads is an approximate way to taper that works for most people. If you are more sensitive to dosage variation, you may wish to weigh the beads. See Counting beads in a capsule versus weighing Using a digital scale to measure doses Excel spreadsheet to calculate dose weights using a scale Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine) This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted February 15, 2016 Administrator Share Posted February 15, 2016 How are you doing now, John? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 For about 2 years i've been counting out beads from Effexor XR. I originally was taking 75mg, got 150mg pills, and counted them out to all the same amount. As of now, I assume that im taking about 47mg (pellets x .2757) with each capsule containing 173 pellets. Problem is is that I almost never seem to feel normal. I'd feel mostly normal, then take out 3 pellets, and a week or 2 later feel like crap. There are times where I havent dropped for months, and then get another "spell". I even began to get new symptoms that I never had before such as hypochondria, bad lightheadedness. One thing is constant is the bad anxiety that always comes along with it. All of it which i never had before the meds. My wife blames it on an inconsistent amount of Effexor because I counted out the beads, so I decided to get a scale, and weigh them. Here's a sample of the weights of some of the pills sans the gelatin capsule. These are all with the same amount of pellets (173): 176mg 164mg 149mg 161mg 183mg 155mg Now the question I have is if this is too much of a daily swing in dosage. Can this be causing the rough ride? I still am yet to weigh the unmodified Effexor pills, as I havent yet gotten any yet. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted October 15, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 15, 2016 Hi John, I've moved your new post into your Intro/Update topic so your history remains in one place. Healing isn't linear. Please see Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization I suggest you re-read the links given above in Post #383. That was posted nearly 1 year ago, and members will have added more of their experiences to that topic since then. Also, Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature. Please include details for the last 12-18 months of all drugs, dates, doses and discontinuations & reinstatements. If you can't remember dates, please write it as "early March" or "mid-August". Please provide a summary of any drugs prior to that which can just be listed with start and stop years. Please include all prescription, non-prescription drugs and supplements you are currently taking. Thank you. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
John Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Thanks. But I'm not asking about windows and was, just wanted to know if these variations can be the culprit. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted October 15, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 15, 2016 Some data analysis: average weight of the capsules (173 beads) is 164.7 mg. "mgbw" (milligrams bead weight) highest = 183; 11% greater than the average lowest = 149, 9.5% lower than the average. It's probably reasonable to assume that the milligrams of active ingredient (mgai) is varying to the same degree as mgbw. The wide dose variation on a daily basis is very likely to be the source of symptoms. As you probably know after 2 years of tapering, the CNS (central nervous system) is stable when the dose is stable. Use the scale to get the same mgbw (milligrams bead weight). The topic on using a digital scale may be a useful read: Using a digital scale to measure doses Note: in the topic, members may use "mgpw" = milligrams pill weight. I hope that weighing the beads produces consistent doses and, even more importantly, results in eliminated symptoms. Please let us know how you do after you've used the scale for a few weeks to create your doses. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted October 23, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 23, 2016 I've moved a topic you started about the weight of an Effexor XR pill to Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine) . The answer to your question may be earlier in that topic. Can anyone tell me what the actual weight of a brand name Effexor XR 75mg pill is? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 21, 2020 Administrator Share Posted September 21, 2020 Hello, @John, how are you doing? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
John Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 Hi very well. The fear feelings that came from nowhere which was everyday and constant no longer destroy my life. I am still tapering and am only down to about 40mg of Effexor whereas I started at 75 for about 15 years. Obviously the minimum therapeutic dose is 75mg, so it's not like it's doing anything for anxiety. I usually drop about 4% of weight every 8 months. I know this is very slow, but the last time 8 did this I crashed because I was dropping too often, and had a cumulative effect on the withdrawal symptoms. After a month or two after dropping I do sometimes get vague anxiety symptoms for a few days but nothing life changing like the past. On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor. June 2010 - Cold turkey September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night. I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor. December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month 2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly. I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper. Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months 2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane 2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so December 2020 - Now at ~31mgs Effexor XR, 5mgs Crestor November 2022 - Added 6% minoxidil and 0.3% finasteride topical. Used for a year. Got systemic side effects. Quit 11/19/2023. Also intermittently used 10 to 20mgs propanolol for adrenaline surges/pvcs. Stopped them also on 11/19/2023. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted September 21, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Hi John and thank you for coming back to update us on how you are doing. 27 minutes ago, John said: Obviously the minimum therapeutic dose is 75mg Therapeutic dose is an arbitrary term used by the pharmaceutical companies. SA prefers the term lowest effective dose. Please create your drug signature. Instructions: Withdrawal History SignatureAccount Settings – Create or Edit a signature Edited September 21, 2020 by ChessieCat * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
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