EternalOptimist: 17 days on generic remeron, want off

March 25, 2014

After reinstatement and getting stable i reduced my taper speed only slightly. It does not have to be such a long time till you can come of.

Don't be in a hurry though, at low doses the side effects are also quite low, and i think that there could be more harm in coming of to fast than staying on a low dose. I stayed at 2.5 mg for quite a while.

I think its like there is an individual optimal taper speed that you can do without feeling all that bad. Taper faster than that and you are in a bit of trouble. For me, and many others reinstatement works quite well though when tapered to fast. Hope its like that for you.

/Wulfgar

March 25, 2014

After reinstatement and getting stable i reduced my taper speed only slightly. It does not have to be such a long time till you can come of.

Don't be in a hurry though, at low doses the side effects are also quite low, and i think that there could be more harm in coming of to fast than staying on a low dose. I stayed at 2.5 mg for quite a while.

I think its like there is an individual optimal taper speed that you can do without feeling all that bad. Taper faster than that and you are in a bit of trouble. For me, and many others reinstatement works quite well though when tapered to fast. Hope its like that for you.

/Wulfgar

but EO is still insisting on not reinstating mirtazapine although suffering a bad WD which is increasing in intensity as far as I can see ;(

March 25, 2014

Oh goodness. I feel near panic now thinking of reinstating. Like I'm on th ledge. How long can I go w/o n still go back on?

I hope I'm not my worst enemy . Maybe feel out of control on a drug. Dang this fear n confusion. Thnk u both for your assist. I'll think on this today. Feel fragile n scared. Errr

Peace to you n prayers for full recovery for us all.

March 25, 2014

Don't panic, my brother told me all decision can be changed (or something like that

But I hate having to make decisions when I feel fragile and scared ;( That sucks big time because this is not a time for decision...

I understand that you hate the thought that reinstating might anul all the suffering you put through so far. But it's not so. It's all part of the process.

take care!

March 25, 2014

EO, it does sound like finally withdrawal caught up with you.

Please do consider going back on 1mg mirtazapine. This might be the point you get a prescription for a compounded liquid, it will make it easier, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

March 26, 2014

Thnx A. Have 15 mg tabs still, can water titrate.

Sounds reasonable, now to talk myself into it.

Best

March 26, 2014

Dear EO;

I know you are scared but you can do it. You will do it and be fine.

This is not giving up, this is taking a step which will bring you to where you want to be sooner and with much less suffering.

let us know what happens when you take that 1 mg...

big hug

bubble

March 26, 2014

I'm glad you are considering the 1mg EO. I think it would be good if you can get

the liquid from the pharmacy. You have developed a phobia about those tablets

and having to crush them and make them into a liquid might also cause you stress.

Taking the liquid will not feel like you are taking the same drug. Not sure if I am

making sense here but that is what I am getting from reading your reluctance to

reinstate. If you can manage to make the liquid then that would be great and maybe

save you some money too.

March 26, 2014

Thnx B and M.

Nearly 4 a.m.and feeling scared. Memory of recent 911, hospital, drugs, etc.. Now my mind is all confused again. Just trying

To fig out how to manage to get the liquid feels overwhelming. I learned how to do the water titration ok. I'm trying

To fig out what is wring w/ me that I am in this cycle again, the root problem. I don't have or work w/ a psychiatrist, and fought hard to

Get this drug fr my PCP w/ no refill. I am mostly home bound , have to hire or ask people for help to get things. Am beginning to shake now w/ stress of trying to decide. I so appreciate u being there. God bless

March 26, 2014

EO

You have a great screen name here ~ Eternal Optimist. I always wanted to tell you this. It's positive, refreshing and it's says alot about your personality.

IMHO I think Rhi's advise was right on. During a brutal Lexapro taper I felt much better when I up-dosed and after a week or two I would fee the benefit's. There were two occasions in which I had to stay put for a few months and it was very helpful to have the respite from all of the emotional symptoms.

I am not sure how you are on Mirt. so I don't know if this is good advise however what would happen if you up-dosed a bit more?? and took a good rest???

Mornings = DREAD for alot of us. I am so glad I read this thread to see that you, MamaP, Petu brought this subject up.

I have terrible mornings. Not this morning THANK YOU GOD

Terrible anxiety, dry heaving, depression, exhaustion, fear, doubt, worry, wishing I could lean against a wall and drop dead

Frantically praying, reading daily readers, sometimes crying to my daughter, calling my mother and BFF and coming onto this site

in a state of desperation.

Did I leave anything out?????

Oh and as I am typing this my daughter and her boy friend are having an argument. That adds to it.

Hugs

March 26, 2014

HI and thanks Nikki. I appreciate your support even tho you are sig challenged yourself. Hard to give back when suffering so much.

I'm sorry for all you go thru.

I've stayed in touch with 4 benzo survivors, 3 never want to take a drug again and that's what I've been trying to do. I will ere I go back to a H, I hope.

My therapist coming over today and, although we're new working together and she doesn't understand w/d, it's someone I can talk to about the fear,

aloneness, etc., I go thru esp when ill. One day at a time, well, now, it's 1 hour or less at a time.

I feel so "RAW". Would that be how others feel? Doing simplest of mental tasks are challenging again and physically am able to get thru basic chores.

Lost some appetitie again and last night barely slept. Some of my fear is original 'stuff' that gets triggered when get worse and I need to get a better handle on that.

We are brave soldiers going thru w/d and trying to recover and reclaim our lives.

Best

EO

p;.s. Thanks for compliment about my screen name here. Was more optimistic when started but in general I do like to be optimistoc but, sadly, am only human!

March 26, 2014

EO, I was really anxious some time after my AD taper, I really think the metabolism of my benzo changed plus a supplement problem. In hindsight, I wish I would have raised the benzo dose...I'm OK, but it just further sensitized my brain and now I have to taper in such tiny bits, and take BP medication. I think stabilizing will help your brain heal overall so you can move forward with your therapist. As if we know anything for sure

March 26, 2014

Thnx M. May be right. I'm kicking and screamingly against reinstatement but glad I have med here and will if gets any worse.

So many w/D's. Argh really hampered by intensity now.

March 26, 2014

Better to be kicking and screaming against 1mg instead of a hospital cocktail

March 26, 2014

U r so right! God bless us. Thnx

March 27, 2014

Hi,

Just a check in.

Praying for all of you before I write this brief post.

Wonder how much of the sickness is w/d due to CFS. etc.

Am so so so ill in the morning, can hardly walk and do minor chores but do then

have to lay down. Head pressure, as usual, difficulty seeing and thinking, typng, etc.

Have laptop on my hip while laying sideways on the couch.

Talked to a friend last night who's tapering low dose paxil but skipping days not cutting and is doing well,

is on low dose benzo and lithium so maybe that's why but think she's got hardier constitution...?? She's older than I

and who knows how aging affects us, I'll be 66 next week.

Feel sad and miss family (what little there is) but have been going thru this for 24 plus years but so so so much worse since

xanax w/d and now this w/d. Thank God for some family, friends and this site.

Again, you are all in my prayers.

Best,

EO

March 28, 2014

Hi EO, we are all different and unfortunately some of us find it harder than

others. Your friend is doing well now but withdrawal could be snapping at her heels and bite

her on the bum before long!

Where are you at with the mirtazepine, are you still holding at 7.5? It's hard to tell what is worse

when you have medical conditions as well as withdrawal, I am pretty much like you in the mornings

and tend to get a bit better by mid afternoon. Then worse again early evening and get a second wind

later. Usually I feel fine at midnight! :wacko:

March 28, 2014

Hi EO, we are all different and unfortunately some of us find it harder than

others. Your friend is doing well now but withdrawal could be snapping at her heels and bite

her on the bum before long!

Where are you at with the mirtazepine, are you still holding at 7.5? It's hard to tell what is worse

when you have medical conditions as well as withdrawal, I am pretty much like you in the mornings

and tend to get a bit better by mid afternoon. Then worse again early evening and get a second wind

later. Usually I feel fine at midnight!

HI MammaP.

Guess time will tell. Maybe some people will die of old age before the meds do them in?

I am off mitrazapine 21 days now and, oh, my head...hurts soooooooooooooooo bad.

I find sometimes in the eve, I can smile a little, sing a few notes, bop around a few seconds and think,

I'm getting better then morning comes, thank God, and it ceases to amaze me at how different night and day are.

I'm sorry you too suffer morning discomfort (to put it mildly).

Groundhog day, eh?

I've been extra sleepy last few days and almost a couch potato but the latter is not new, just worse now.

Wonder if others find it near impossible to drive in w/d?

Best to you

EO

morning brings the old

March 28, 2014

Question: waking up n sweat early morn hrs. Detox? Hormones! Nervous system?

Anyone use any homeopathics to detox or help w/ sleep successfully?

Trying to stay calm n out of fear, just don't know what all is wrong. Too ill to even go to a doc.

ThnxK

March 28, 2014

EO somewhere in your thread I wrote about me having Epstein Barr which landed me on ad's. EBV is an identifiable form of CFS and it took me a long time to recover from it.

At that time I was just taking ad's for the horrific panic attacks and depression. I still get bouts of it from overwork and exhaustion. The remedy for me is to lay down with a blanket and let the heat remove the pain from my body. It works wonders.

If you take your CFS and the WD from drugs and put them together there is bound to be alot of symptoms....

Can you separate the symptoms into two categories.....CFS and WD. It may help you to see what each one is and not snowball it all into one.

Mornings it seems are bad for most of us. Do you think you may want to stop your taper or possibly updose to see if there is relief, and if there is just stay and stabilize?

With CFS there is anxiety and depression. It is part of the condition. Night sweats could be hormones. I take HRT so that is one thing I don't have. Just for today, can you keep yourself distracted.

Feel for you

March 28, 2014

God, i feel for you! I know how awful this is.

I think a big part of your sleep problems definitely is due to to high levels of stress hormones in the wake of mirtazapine. There is little in the way of natural herbs and treatments that can reduce those. (Time can though) There are a supplement called Seriphos that might have an effect. Also, there are the possibility to use carbohydrates to quickly/temporarily lower cortisol and possibly epinephrine when you wake up at night. This effect is used in some sports to lower post exercise cortisol as cortisol is catabolic. Its called insulin spike. You might google this. You might try a snack of quick carbs. (Keep fructose low though). Have it ready so that you get minimum disturbance when waking up. (Don't use this if you have diabetes or hypoglycemia).

Are you managing to eat at regular hours? Be sure to get low GI carbs and good fats each meal during the day. Dysregulation of stress hormones is awful! Any irregularity in energy supply in your body will elevate these hormones further. I had it so bad once i did not have ear wax but cortisone cream coming out my ears.

I so wish to have a better solution for you, but this is all i can think of.

Hug!

Wulfgar

March 28, 2014

Read your replies N and WG. Thnx u.

Am curled up in massive anxiety. Can hardly think or function.

Dang, this is tough n not my first time thru. Am scared.

March 28, 2014

Have you decided how bad it needs to get before you reinstate a tiny amount? Remember it usually works best the sooner you do it....

March 28, 2014

HI M.

yes, I think of it daily and keep thinking I'm going to turn the corner. Now 22 days off...I'm wondering. How will I get off successfully if I go back on?

once off, then have to go thru this again? not thinking well right now. have such fear of going back on but this is almost intolerable. So confused.

'

been told it's inability to detox. Then original anxiety occurs or is mixed in here. My old benzo support people encourage to stay the course but in the end, I'll have to decide how much I can take. Find my stress level hits the roof in thinking of reinstating. Been so against these drugs for many years and yet am in the soup once again.

I appreciate the feedback and support while I'm trying to figure this out. Guess I was hoping to hear hang in there, you'll get thru this, it won't be long.

Still, I have to decide.

You're all in my heart and prayers.

Best

EO

March 28, 2014

You do realize you tapered enormously quickly?

March 28, 2014

HI M.

yes, I think of it daily and keep thinking I'm going to turn the corner. Now 22 days off...I'm wondering. How will I get off successfully if I go back on?

once off, then have to go thru this again? not thinking well right now. have such fear of going back on but this is almost intolerable. So confused.

'

been told it's inability to detox. Then original anxiety occurs or is mixed in here. My old benzo support people encourage to stay the course but in the end, I'll have to decide how much I can take. Find my stress level hits the roof in thinking of reinstating. Been so against these drugs for many years and yet am in the soup once again.

I appreciate the feedback and support while I'm trying to figure this out. Guess I was hoping to hear hang in there, you'll get thru this, it won't be long.

Still, I have to decide.

You're all in my heart and prayers.

Best

EO

Dear EO,

my experience with AD taught me that it didn't get better round the corner, only worse ;( I lasted 40 days...

maybe it's different with benzos. So maybe experts on benzo tapering shouldn't have a main say in the decision regarding an AD...

we suggested reinstating 1 mg many times and this is still the only solution which I see for great, great difficulties you are experiencing...

slow enough taper will prevent the agony you are going through now and you could have life while tapering. so it doesn't mean you are giving in and days of agony were for nothing.

You know my opinion and I've decided to take sides: reinstate. Even one pill made a huge difference for me. maybe you could try out and see how you feel on that 1 mg. Then it woudl be easier to make the decision. One way of seeing this is that you are now stressing your CNS by refusing to reinstate and in that way prolonging your recovery...

that's just my opinion and experience.

big hug!

March 28, 2014

You do realize you tapered enormously quickly?

Yes, tho only on it 2 months , 1. Week. . Guess that doesn't matter. Was hoping it would. Felt so good coming off that last week and first week off that i Thought I did right. Now my original anxiety is back too, spent 20 yrs in talk therapy nd became a therapist...was good at it but my health and issue got th best of me. horrid fear of abandonment, separation anxiety. Now I feel real vulnerable . . Anyone relate? Thnx

March 28, 2014

Bubble, hi and thnx for the hug. Back o you.

Logically this makes perfect sense, what u suggest, u and others. I may do that .

Hoding in a lot of grief too. Sure many here are.

40 days huh? Hmmm I'm at 22.

So, u off the AD? Not sure by your byline ( whatever it's called).

Best n thnx

March 28, 2014

It is reasonable to think that a quick taper might have worked, but when you cut 25% and went symptomatic, that's when it became a really quick taper. My vote would be a really slow re taper of the last bit along with some work on your health. How can you feel good when you are sick to the point of housebound? You have been through so much, no wonder you need a slow, slow taper. I have a diagnosis of fibromyalgia, so I am not just saying this.

March 28, 2014

Bubble, hi and thnx for the hug. Back o you.

Logically this makes perfect sense, what u suggest, u and others. I may do that .

Hoding in a lot of grief too. Sure many here are.

40 days huh? Hmmm I'm at 22.

So, u off the AD? Not sure by your byline ( whatever it's called).

Best n thnx

I wish I had reinstated immeditely after I felt starnge which was within days. But the same as you I was hoping for 40 days that relief was just behind the corner and that I have to hold it out a tiny bit longer.

Until things went from bad to horrible and I staggered to this forum. I reinstated the whole dose and have been holding ever since. I also learnt I have to work on my benzo issue first.

No need to grieve if you mean the grief over reinstatement. After what I wrote it seems like benzo forum had that firm policy of never going back that holds you. As far as I could see from being here, for a successful AD taper going back when hit by WD is the best option.

why not try that 1 mg?

lots of love!

March 28, 2014

in addition, I tried seriphos last Fall. Had strange reaction.

Not sure how much is CFS or w/d. Some say lyme. Hard to separate.

Do try to eat regularly and organic, whole grains, etc., no sugar. Good suggestions. Thanks.

Sorry, just in difficult place. Been dealing with anxiety since 1981. errr

Big hugs back to you all.

March 28, 2014

I am at work which is why I am writing like a drill sergeant. But I have so much sympathy for you. Of course you have so much grief. And if you can dump any here, so much the better. Maybe that is the essence of this recent crisis.

March 28, 2014

Thanks Bubble for answering my question. I wish it were the days when I functioned fairly well on xanax but gone are those days.,

Back then I could drive, go out a tad daily, go to therapy, get my own groceries even with CFS. Then off that it took years before I could drive again

and then never for long or far. Now this. argh.

Grief re: family stuff and loss of so much of life with chronic illness then w/d. Just so sad.

Got and read Peter Breggin's book and bought into it. So hard to go against what I intuitively believe . I may have to yet. and again.

Do others feel like their personality gets shaken to the core in w/d? Not sure that makes sense. Few weeks ago I was so myself that I was

looking into quilts and used cars.

All my best,

EO

March 28, 2014

I am at work which is why I am writing like a drill sergeant. But I have so much sympathy for you. Of course you have so much grief. And if you can dump any here, so much the better. Maybe that is the essence of this recent crisis.

OH, M. thank you. I'm near tears now. You're at work and supporting others here, how kind of you. I've been known to give a lot in my day. Now I'm on the other side, again.

Called my new therapist, first thing she said was "amatryptaline"...set me off. She's doing the best she can, never worked with someone in w/d.

FEel emotional, sensitive, argh

Grief involves family issue and loss from chronic illness and w/d for so many years.

Big hugs and thanks agian

EO

March 28, 2014

M. Oh, sorry for your struggle w/ FM. Used to run support groups for CFS and some had FM too. Ouch.

Empathy to you. Hug

March 29, 2014

Do others feel like their personality gets shaken to the core in w/d? Not sure that makes sense. Few weeks ago I was so myself that I was

looking into quilts and used cars.

Yes, I also have no personality for most of the time these days. There's just not enough energy for anything besides focusing on how to survive through another day of symptoms. I was also looking at cars a few weeks ago when I was in a brief window, but that enthusiasm is gone again now. The fact that our personalities come back for brief periods gives me hope that they are still there, like the sun behind a thick covering of dark clouds.

EternalOptimist: 17 days on generic remeron, want off

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