EternalOptimist: 17 days on generic remeron, want off

[EternalOptimist]

From Petu:

Yes, I also have no personality for most of the time these days.  There's just not enough energy for anything besides focusing on how to survive through another day of symptoms.  I was also looking at cars a few weeks ago when I was in a brief window, but that enthusiasm is gone again now.  The fact that our personalities come back for brief periods gives me hope that they are still there, like the sun behind a thick covering of dark clouds.

 

Hi Petu, thanks for your reply. Sad to feel better at some else's expense. but knowing we're not so alone in our suffering sure does help. You too looked for cas recently, how fun tho short lived. I looked at quilts too and bought a. 10" cast iron skillet to bake German pancakes, I don't know where I put it. LOL.

 

Not last night but the 2 nights before, I took a homeopathic to aid insomnia, nervous exhaustion and depression. Wonder if that affected me adversely. Has anyone taken gentle drainage to assist in detox?

 

I forced mysel 2 drive 2 blocks to hang out with a friend, played scrabble tho my head and body were not comfortable, I'd pace and lay

But good to get away and out of self a tad.

 

Depression and sickness awful this morning, par for the course eh?

 

As for our personalities, I miss mine and will agree with you, Petu, that they're still there waiting to appear and enjoy again.

Best

EO

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal symptoms are not from an inability to detox -- that's ridiculous!! I hate it that this keeps going around in the benzo forums.

 

Withdrawal symptoms come from the absence of a drug, not its presence in any form. If the goal is to slowly go off a drug, if tissues release it even more slowly, that's an aid to tapering, not a problem. Our livers and kidneys do a very good job of cleaning this stuff out.

 

Please do not worry about "detox." That's a concept inherited from addiction medicine's punitive component in which addicts are compelled to purge every last bit of sin from their bodies and not under any circumstance backslide into taking the drug again.

[EternalOptimist]

HI Alto:

I like your analogy re: detox concept.

Thank you for your explanation about detox vs w/d sx from absence of a drug. Makes sense and a relief as I don't want to detox.

Too, been warned by some not to detox during w/d.  Now I've a reason or a better understanding. 

Best

[EternalOptimist]

another question re: muscles

when head pressure severe, often muscles in arms and legs feel sick.  

if re: w/d, which I think it is, what the H! is in that drug to supposedly help with depression/anxiety etc., that screws with our muscles?

[Altostrata]

The drugs act on our nervous systems. Our nervous systems shape themselves around them. When you take the drugs away too fast, our nervous systems become confused and generate all kinds of bizarre symptoms, including pain and weakness.

[EternalOptimist]

huh, ok. and bizarre sensations in the limbs.    fun. 

NOT

Best

[mammaP]

Alto said what I wanted to say but put it much better than I could!  

 

If you choose not to reinstate this could go on for a long time but you will have windows

and waves along the way.  Only being on it for a short time makes no difference, some

people can stop easily but sady you can't. 

 

I was reluctant to reinstate too, we all are, but it was what I needed to do.  Just a tiny

amount may be enough, I don't know if you have tablets, capsules or liquid but if I 

were you, and knowing what I know now I wouldn't hesitate! Even a few beads from

a capsule might help.  

[EternalOptimist]

Thnx MP. Appreciate the suggestion. Am still considering. Was able to drive to Walgreens last eve and do minor shopping.

Felt like such a feat. Got more chores done this morn so wonder if a window. Yet, feel like I'm going thru a personality change.

Basically, I'm wondering who I am if not defined by my family (which is distant save one son) and friends.

Reacted with anxiety to this pondering. Now laying down and playing a word game on iPad to distract. Do others have this query?

Maybe an age thing. Hmmmmm

Best

Oh, going for 4 weeks (4 more days) and see where I stand, hope I'm not in my own way of finding my path to recovery. LOL

[Meimeiquest]

Additionally, your whole body uses neurotransmitters and has neuroreceptors. So withdrawing is a whole body experience, and being able to sense your needs and taking care of them is an important life skill. My very last comment above reinstatement.

[EternalOptimist]

Additionally, your whole body uses neurotransmitters and has neuroreceptors. So withdrawing is a whole body experience, and being able to sense your needs and taking care of them is an important life skill. My very last comment above reinstatement.

Excellent comment M. Thanks for this.  It is SoooooooooooOOOOOO True and no wonder friends, docs think you've got 'other' stuff going on.

Those who've not come off these meds nor had difficulty coming off just can't get it and it doesn't help me/us to think they can or might if I/we just

describe it again in a different way. LOL  

Best

[EternalOptimist]

Ok, so I did Spring cleaning n drove few blocks to store and friends this weekend, pushing all the while.

Can hardly move or see straight this a.m. Course, a.m.'s , as we know, r such great challenge.

For others here that don't have another condition on top of w/d , which is bad enough , sadly, r u sig worsened

By overdoing?

Blessings

EO

[wulfgar]

EO, i also get in a bad way when overdoing stuff. Felt good and did to much stuff this weekend, been bed ridden most of this day.

[EternalOptimist]

EO, i also get in a bad way when overdoing stuff. Felt good and did to much stuff this weekend, been bed ridden most of this day.

Wellll, I am sad and sorry u too go thru this WF tho it is validating. Guess we pay the piper, argh

Dang and docs just don't know enuf to stop the mishandling of these meds.

Rest up. Will be wishing we all come out of this sooner thn later. Best

[Rhiannon]

 

Do others feel like their personality gets shaken to the core in w/d?  Not sure that makes sense.  Few weeks ago I was so myself that I was 

looking into quilts and used cars.  

 

Yes, I also have no personality for most of the time these days.  There's just not enough energy for anything besides focusing on how to survive through another day of symptoms.  I was also looking at cars a few weeks ago when I was in a brief window, but that enthusiasm is gone again now.  The fact that our personalities come back for brief periods gives me hope that they are still there, like the sun behind a thick covering of dark clouds.

 

 

They are they are! 

 

:-)

 

You will get yourself back. Maybe a slightly wiser self, maybe changed by what you've been through, because that's how life works, but you will feel like "you" again.

[Rhiannon]

Additionally, your whole body uses neurotransmitters and has neuroreceptors. So withdrawing is a whole body experience, and being able to sense your needs and taking care of them is an important life skill. My very last comment above reinstatement.

 

Plus the drugs don't just affect neurotransmitters. Would that they were that "clean." They're also hormonal disruptors, anti-histamines, they do all kinds of things, all of which our body has to adapt to when we come off them.

 

Plus--this is just me, but--I've seen some interesting things happen with muscles and connective tissue in severe withdrawal. Since our nervous system is strung along our connective tissue like Christmas lights on a tree, I think there might be something that happens with that as well. 

 

I believe I read recently (it might have been Healy) that by far the majority of serotonin in our body is not in our brains, but in the rest of our bodies, especially the gut. I know it also plays a role in platelet functioning. So these meds have wide-reaching effects.

[EternalOptimist]

Rhi, I hope I'll be wiser.  Thought I'd never use a psych med again....ended up in crisis.  have to find a better way.

 

You shed a lot of interesting light on how these meds can affect our bodies.  Your Christmas tree lights analogy is a good description of the possible 

effects.  

 

I heard or read that most neurotransmitters are made in the belly/gut.  how does it affect the head so then, via the liver? hmmm

Best to you.
EO

[Meimeiquest]

I think the current thought is that gut organisms affect the vagus nerve.

[Meimeiquest]

Oops, that was about gut microbes. Sorry.

[EternalOptimist]

Oops, that was about gut microbes. Sorry.

Hi M. Would u explain? I'm drawing a blank. Gut microbes affect the vegas nerve? If so, microbes from drug/w/d? Sorry, befuddled.

I need o look up where the Vegas nerve is located.

Best

[EternalOptimist]

Hi again....

Aside from above ? To Meim...

 

When those who push and physical Sx worsen , does this set off more intense emotional Sx too?

Thnx

[Meimeiquest]

The gut is a major, major player in mental health. I am sure there are some threads here, and at mercola.com. If you are well enough to read, I would greatly recommend the ebook Unravelling CFS...besides your ME diagnosis, according to his theory it is is quite similar to withdrawal.

[EternalOptimist]

Huh.  I knew the gut was considered the 2nd brain.  I'm aware of Dr. Mercola as well tho I don't do much reading.  However, 

I can read and take in a little at a time.  ME dx similar to w/d, def. new to me.  I'll check that ebook out. Thanks again.

Ended up with 3 new books on healing to read just this week. Used to devour self-help books til xanax w/d.  

Thanks M.

Best

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Said a prayer for us all again last evening.

Haven't been on for a few days...was my b.day, few g.f.'s came over, cleaned house, was able to drive 

locally, few blocks, then drove last eve a few miles.  Basically, last 3 days I've held my own, managing 

the sx okish.  

Awoke 2:30 a.m. after 2 1/2 hrs sleep and felt soooooo sick, brain sick, like earlier on.

I guess I had a window and now in a wave but always surprises me and then I wonder 

if the severity involves possibly the CFS or lyme etc. Confusing.   Is disappointing (using lighter adjective to keep my mind 

in healthy place).  

I'm 30 days off.  I made the decision to get to 4 weeks and reevaluate given all the helpful 

advice I got here.  I felt better so held out.  

Blessings

EO

[bubble]

was thinking about you and meant to pay you a visit

 

and you had a birthday! happy birthday a little late I think windows are the best presents we can get so I'm very happy one was sent to you

 

and the car ride you wished for... You know I was worried about that reinstating business but hopefully you will pull through your way.

 

big hug!

[EternalOptimist]

Hi bubble.

Thnx for dropping in and your comments. Feel badly I don't check up on many here due to Sx but do appreciate those who get back to me and do drop in others threads now and then when can. Dang head/ brain Sx.

I'm no less caring about you all. .

. I'm officially retired now. :-). Tho haven't worked in years. Used to love to work, beats this.

Hey, nice idea, the Window as a b,day present. Now why didn't I think of that? LOL

Big hug back

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Hi to my AD survivor buddies.

 

Been able to be more myself last few days, even drove and shopped for few groceries yest aft. Pushed thru weakness. Worse a.m. In long time. Wonder if would have happened anyway or the result of pushing, head pressure severe , weakness, visual and cognitive strain, makes dealing w/ grief and sadness more difficult. Hope this is just a wave. Heres where I get confused: w/d vs other health issues plus orig issues.

Sorry not able to be more supportive here...I am on phone to those in need when i can but computer Time is limited to easy use.

All my best, u r in my thoughts n prayers.

EO

[Altostrata]

Thank you, EO. Please take care of yourself.

[EternalOptimist]

Thanks Alto.  

 I'm 36 days off and some days are more tolerable than others but last couple of days have been challenging again.  Sx intense.  Betw xanax w/d of years ago, this latest w/d, CFS, etc ., just don't know what to think.  Wonder if I'll know when the mirtrazapine w/d is over?  Best to you. EO

Can it take longer off a drug to recover than time on?  I'm about half the time off than the time I was on.  Have had better days but last 2 days have been intense reminder...

[Petunia]

Can it take longer off a drug to recover than time on?  I'm about half the time off than the time I was on.

 

I have seen this happen when there has been an adverse reaction to the drug, or previous medications, changes and withdrawals leading to general nervous system sensitivity.

[EternalOptimist]

Thanks Petu.  Bet some of you think: "ya shoulda reinstated!"    Maybe but couldn't convince myself.  

Best to you.

EO

[Meimeiquest]

Ummm, we're all on a pretty unconventional (as my gp calls it) route. We were just helping you get to "informed consent."

[EternalOptimist]

M, I know, I was making fun of me or an unpleasant situation. . If I read u right,

 

Such a difficult night and morn...makes me think I Should've reinstated. Then I'll be better in the eve

And think its all ok.

Right now I can hardly stand how I feel. Intense, severe head pressure , sick. Brain, raw feeling, weak, sing songs in my head again, ....scary . curled up in fetal position in bed typing on iPad one finger, vision strained, cam hardly think straight. Eyeyeyeyeye

Thnx. All. Always grateful for feedback.

Best EO

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Worse in the morning and better in the evening is how the too high cortisol from NS system instability makes you feel. Since you won't be reinstating and doing a much slower taper, you'll want to support yourself the best you can. This can go on for a very long time unfortunately, as many here will attest. Being on a powerful drug for only a short period of time does not mean you can go off it rapidly without upsetting your system. The wisdom of others has urged you to reinstate but you are determined to tough it out. This may eventually work, who knows? It won't be very comfortable, that's for sure.

 

Are you getting gentle walks, drinking plenty of water and trying mag and fish oil? They seem to be so simple but they really do work.

[EternalOptimist]

HI C.

 

Thanks for your feedback.  Yes, I get in some strolling and eating organic mostly, fish oil included.  

 

I helped a friend locally water taper her paxil that she's only been on 4 months...she was told to skip a day then skip 2 days and was 

having much more sx so I told her what you all would say and what I believe, to taper more slowly.  She's doing much better for it.

I have so much fear of reinstating and w/d ing again...did it too many times.  But, it is what it is eh?    Guess I still could reinstate but...

I keep thinking I'll turn the corner.  Have been able to do more here and there, now and then, in late aft or evenings.  Maybe the whole horrid 

lengthy xanax w/d has just put too much fear in me.    

 

Thanks for the support, I really really do appreciate it.  I don't like toughing it out but it's what I choose and do question my decision.  hmmmm

Best again.

EO

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

While you are on the fence your window of time to reinstate without making thing worse is closing but that is your choice. Good luck to you! I have been reading posts on this board for close to a year now and many are still struggling that did as you did. I didn't have a choice. You do.

 

That's all the feedback from me. Won't urge you to reconsider again. It may be that it has already been too long for you so it's a moot point.

[EternalOptimist]

Thanks again C.  I may regret this decision.  Sometimes the most difficult person to work with is ourself.  LOL  

Well, in this area anyway.  

Might you all be saying I or we won't recover this way or it just will take a heck of a long time to do so?