Moonlitelotus: introduction/body zaps/questions

[Altostrata]

Moonlite, read the following:

 

MLL, you have had a lot of dosage and drug changes in the last two years. All of the symptoms you describe are common in wd syndrome. They take a long time to resolve. Stopping, starting and changing drugs causes symptoms too.

 

....Have you noticed any changes since you started the thyroid meds?

 

 

So, have you felt any changes since you started the thyroid drugs? You never answered this important question.

 

I went 4 1/2 months. I'm feeling slightly better since starting medication again it's now been 4 days. I forgot how long it took me to significantly feel better the last two times I went through this. I'm sort of scared this time it won't work. I think I'm just letting negative thoughts get the best of me though. I think after a month in a half to two months of reinstating the other times I significantly recovered. Guess my brain was going one way now it has to go another sgain. I'm done putting myself through such torment for a while. I hope you are starting to feel a lot better, frustrated, sorry you caught the flu bug.

 

Moonlite, we've explained over and over why you might not want to take a higher dose. More is not better when it comes to reinstatement.

 

It sounds like 5mg is too much for you. You need to take charge and do what's best for you. You need to control your dosage.

 

You also need to allow time for your nervous system to calm down. You haven't done that at all so far.

 

You have to be consistent and stick with it for a while to see if it will work. You haven't done any of that.

No simple little pill is guaranteed to fix you. Recovery from withdrawal is a long, slow process.

 

Skipping doses or taking them inconsistently can cause those symptoms, too. But you know that, because we've told you over and over, correct?

 

Moonlite, how many times have you been told you need to stay at a consistent dosage to see if it will work? And that serotonin syndrome is extremely unlikely at your low dosages?

 

If being on the drug frightens you that much, if I were you, I wouldn't take it. Please stop this irrational, self-sabotaging behavior.

 

If you decide to go off, you will have to use non-drug means to deal with whatever symptoms you might have. See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum http://tinyurl.com/3hq949zfor suggestions.

 

I'm sorry, I've run out of patience for this. I feel I've done all I can do to answer your questions.

 

MLL

In the past two weeks you have reinstated lexapro, updosed lexapro, taken Xanax ?, down dosed lexapro, stopped taking lexapro and are now asking about taking another AD despite the fact that we have consistently and repeatedly said that you have to stop making changes and destabilising your system or if you do make changes give it time to work. Which part of that don't you get?

I know you are desperate for this to be over, scared, anxious etc we have all been there or are there currently. At some point you have to find the courage and the will to stop looking for a quick fix and making yourself worse.

My advice, don't take anything else. Read the threads on managing withdrawal through non drug means, stop feeding your anxiety and be as gentle as you can on your nervous system. You've only got one, stop abusing it in thought and deed.

This may sound harsh to you but it's our best advice and you have ignored it over and over again. This isn't only frustrating, it means you are moving further away from healing

Please don't ask for other drug recommendations, no one will give them to you

Dalsaan

 

So you have now stopped the medication and will need to research the Symptoms and Self care forum for all of the non-drug techniques to treat symptoms that come up. All of our good information is there, use search if you do not see it on the first page.

 

I agree with Dalsaan, I know how frightening this is for you, I have been there and it is terrifying, but at some 

point you have to start believing that you WILL GET BETTER. If you had a serious accident with a seriously

broken leg then that leg would have to heal, surgeons may operate but the bone will have to heal itself and

that takes time. You would have to accept that and take care of yourself while the healing process takes place.

You could try every drug and supplement in the world but there is no way of speeding up that healing as the bone

regrows and repairs itself. It is painful and if you are allergic to painkillers you have to go with it and find ways to

manage the pain. As the bone heals the pain gets better. It can still be painful years later but you can live with it

and get about, slowly at first then with crutches then sticks until you are fully mobile again.

 

Your nervous system is broken and needs to heal. You are allergic to the 'pain killers' and need to learn ways to

manage the pain. It will heal at it's own pace but it WILL heal.  

 

You had a "horrible" experience reinstating because you constantly changed doses and skipped doses. This made it impossible to tell if reinstatement might have helped you.

 

You did this to yourself despite all our warnings.

 

No one can predict if another drug will help. We cannot recommend drugs to you. Try this at your own risk.

 

Yes, people recover from withdrawal syndrome. It takes consistency  and patience over months or years.

 

If you don't want to take drugs, read the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions on non-drug techniques that may help.

 

Please, no more questions about

• serotonin syndrome
• reinstatement
• other drugs
• how long it will take you to heal

They have all been answered in this topic.

[Moonlitelotus]

Well I was feeling worse actually once I started the 1mg and my body started to recognize it and that's why I was told to go up to 5 because I was having more anxiety which is stupid I know. But I was listening to my doctor and my mom. That was obviously a mistake. I didn't mean to disregard what you guys were saying. Obviously though my body doesn't agree with the medicine because I started getting panic attacks even at the low dose. Which I have not had in a long time even anxiety really. So I'm just going to have to let my body heal slowly. I just thought it was strange that I feel better once stopping it when I felt like everything was exacerbated by the medicine. I thought for sure things would be worse once stopping again but it's been ok besides feeling more sensitive. No anxiety or panic attacks.

[Altostrata]

Okay, so let's move on to developing a good attitude for healing.

 

You will need to take care of yourself and listen to your body. Your body may not agree with your mom and your doctor.

 

For example, you need a good diet with lots of fresh fruits and veggies; minimal sugar, caffeine, artificial additives and flavorings. This helps your body get strong and heal your nervous system.

[Moonlitelotus]

I agree. I already was doing that before this hiccup. But this time I feel I have a better mindset and drive to get better the right way. Thanks for your input.

[Moonlitelotus]

Does reinstating unsuccessfully create a major set back? Is it like starting from scratch?

[Altostrata]

As repeated many times, taking psychiatric drugs inconsistently, which is what you were doing, causes problems. You will have to deal with your present situation now.

 

Whatever happened before is past. Please stop asking questions about reinstatement. It is a non-issue for you.

[Moonlitelotus]

I don't know why that's an unreasonable question to ask. I know that it creates issues to take them inconsistently and will have to manage my current situation. I just wanted to know if reinstating for that short period did a lot of reversing or if it just upsets things for a while. Maybe you just don't have the answer.

[Moonlitelotus]

I don't think it's a stupid question to want to know is 4 1/2 months of "progress" is down the drain.

[Altostrata]

You added additional stress to your condition. It was not a helpful thing to do to yourself. It's impossible to predict how much this will add to your recovery time.

 

Can we leave this behind now? Please?

[Moonlitelotus]

Well F*ck my life then. Can you not be so rude please? You should know this is not an easy thing to go thru it's scary and uncomfortable and I don't need you being rude to me on top of it. We are all just doing the best we can to get through this and sometimes mistakes are made. If you get tired of people asking you questions maybe you should reconsider what you are doing. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

Moonlite, you cannot expect me or the mods to answer the same question from you over and over.

 

I've been as patient as possible. Enough is enough.

 

If you cannot be civil, perhaps you should find another support group.

[Moonlitelotus]

I don't know what to do about this GERD or whatever it is that makes me feel like I can't get a deep breath shorty after eating. It is my worst symptom I have to deal with. Sometimes I get it even when I'm hungry and have not eaten yet. I've never had GERD before withdrawal. I don't know what to do to get thru this symptom. I have an inhaler for it and I take tums and eat bland and drink aloe juice and chamomile tea. It gives me anxiety though feeling like I can't breathe easiy.

[Petunia]

Problems with breathing are common when we are feeling anxious and can also be a withdrawal symptom.  A member, theelt712 had breathing problems as part of her withdrawal, she is recovered now.  This reply to one of her posts might be helpful to you now:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4213-theelt712-tapering-off-zoloft/?p=58641

[Moonlitelotus]

Thank you! That is reassuring. It's so strange though. Seems like my body does it in conjunction with eating. Maybe eating over stimulates it because it is already quite over stimulated.

[Fresh]

What you're describing is known as "Respiratory Akathisia"    Moonlite.

See link:  Restlessness of Respiration as a manifestation of Akathisia: 5 case reports of respiratory akathisia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11078034

Edited January 30, 2015 by Petunia
fixed link

[Moonlitelotus]

Will it go away eventually?

[Moonlitelotus]

Fresh, the link didn't work. I sort of feel like it's GERD related because I get it with eating and I do get heartburn and gas and stuff as well. It also gets worse if I eat certain things. Either way whatever it is is uncomfortable. I can deal with a lot but that's not one I am very good with.

[Fresh]

Yes , it will go away.   It's when you feel like you can't breathe , shortness of breath , chest bursting etc.

        "Neuroleptic-induced respiratory dyskinesia is a common but under-recognized side effect of neuroleptic administration.    It manifests

         as irregular respiration , grunting or gasping and abnormal chest or esophageal movements.   It occurs almost exclusively with other tardive

         effects of neuroleptics such as tardive dyskinesia and tardive akathisia."

I did a bingle search for "respiratory akathisia" and found above.   Sorry the link didn't work.

 

The thing is , lots of people who get this breathing difficulty (like me) are diagnosed with asthma and given asthma meds.  The asthma meds can be contraindicated with other meds which can increase sensations like heart palpitations.    If this is you too Moonlite , do an interaction check on    drugs.com  with any puffers.

 

It goes away eventually with all the other symptoms of akathisia.

[Moonlitelotus]

Ok thanks, I have a xopenex inhaler it is the one that's suppose to be least likely to cause anxiety and stimulate. I try to not use it if I dont have to. I don't have any other TD side effects or akathisia side effects so that's why I was thinking it's gastrointestinal related. Plus I do have heartburn as well. You can get shortness of breath from GERD too. I don't feel like my breathing is irregular when it happens it's like I can't get a deep breath and my chest is tight and my esophagus feels irritated and then that gives me anxiety so I think hyperventilate because I'm too worried about breathing. I try to just stay calm when it happens tho now. I feel like it's food related because if I eat smaller meals it helps and if I eat bland. I'm not saying it couldn't be what you are saying. Does respiratory akathisia happen after eating??

[Moonlitelotus]

I was tested for asthma and don't have any. My lung function was great.

[Fresh]

Hi Moonlite , I've read through your entire thread . . . you've certainly been through a lot.   No wonder you have so may questions.

One thing that jumps out at me is numerous references to what sounds like akathisia - tingly sensations under the skin , pressure , a sense of energy or movement. (sorry , I can't use the quote) , restlessness.     Perhaps you can do some reading on it and see if you think it fits.

Experiencing heat waves and shivering is part of the symptom "temperature disregulation" , which is kind of self-explanatory.   I called this the "hots and colds".    It is a very common w/d symptom.

Loads of people on here talk about getting the flu' , or having a bug.    Low-grade cold symptoms like sneezing , snuffly nose, are another common symptom of w/d.  

Thyroid problems seem to be a common consequence of AD use.    I have a slow thyroid now.   I take Eutroxig and my levels are now good , but I never felt specifically "better" after stating the thyroid meds.

I don't know if you have GERD ,  it's so difficult with protracted withdrawal syndrome to tease out what symptoms belong to which condition.  If you're having nausea , you may find greek yoghurt or even milk helps that to settle.  It is safe for you to take ranitidine tablets if you are really bothered by nausea/acidity.

 

Here's the thing Moonlite , I know this isn't a life any of us would choose (specially at 25) , but we've all been dealt this card and now are forced to deal with it. There is no walking away.    We are so lucky to have this site - I had no clue what I was going through my 20's , 30's and 40's.   No wonder I felt like a hypochondriac.

It's pretty likely that your symptoms will get worse before they get better, and that seems to be the nature of the beast   None of the sensations or thoughts can kill you.  

Having all your posts in one place made it easy for me to follow your journey - thanks alto for bringing all Moonlite's posts together.

Moonlite , could you update your signature please since 22 January ?

You will get through this - we all will one day.

xxx

[Moonlitelotus]

Fresh,

 

I am not sure what to update on my signature. I am not taking any medications or supplements at this point. I feel it is best to just leave my body alone right now. I had more symptoms when trying to reinstate than I do as just baseline withdrawal symptoms. I had some windows before reinstating but those have probably closed for a while now. :/ Right now my symptoms are: I seem to experience GERD or the respiratory akathisia after eating. I have low energy and I cannot work out or I feel worse. I have ear ringing that fluctuates in loudness. I have mild vertigo and dizziness occasionally as well as brain fog that comes and goes. I pretty much always feel tired. Today I've had some nervousness and I cannot tolerate any medications or supplements or I get the weird overstimulated body zaps feeling but if I just stick to nothing then I don't get that feeling.

[Fresh]

Sorry Moonlite . . . I meant between January 9 and 22 , when you went from Lexapro 1mg , to 5mg , to 2.5mg before stopping on Jan.22.

[Moonlitelotus]

I can't stand this. I have no choice but to try and reinstate again on my original medication, Prozac. I was thinking I would try .5mg. I noticed I did feel better and was able to function more when Lexapro was very low in my system. It made me very sick when I took it but when it was low and leaving my system I noticed some relief. Then once it left I started getting my symptoms again. GERD mostly and I pretty much can barely eat because of I eat too much I don't feel well and almost after everything I eat I feel short of breath and dizzy. That did go away for a bit when I had Lexapro in my system. I feel like I cannot go on with this though. I need to eat and I need to breathe. Those are obviously very vital functions for living. I don't care about being off medication anymore I just want to not feel like this. I don't know what else to do.

[Petunia]

 I don't care about being off medication anymore I just want to not feel like this. I don't know what else to do.

 

That was me in early 2013.

 

So I went back to my doctor and asked to be put on Prozac.  I took a quarter of a tablet for 5 days, but I was getting worse, not better.  I was starting to get homicidal urges and rage, nothing like I'd ever experienced before in my life.  So I stopped taking it.  Within about a month I was back to my baseline feeling of awful so thought perhaps going back on Lexapro would fix me.  Maybe I did have a chemical imbalance and needed to be on it for life.  Once again I went back to my doctor and asked to go back on Lexapro.  I took a quarter of a tablet for 3 days, by then I was seriously suicidal, was hearing messages in my mind that I needed to end my life.  So I stopped taking it and after that, never really went back my previous baseline. I didn't realize it at the time, but I had started to heal, many of my previous symptoms had gone away, but they came back and I'm still dealing with them now.

 

But I had an excuse for doing this to myself, I hadn't yet found this site and didn't know what was going on.  I didn't yet have the benefit of the good advice here.

 

I know you are suffering MLL, I was too.  I just wanted to feel better.  But believe me, it can get much worse.  If you are having problems eating at the moment, then try and work with that.  Look at what you are eating and how much.  Maybe try making some healthy smoothies and see if you can tolerate those.  Try just eating bland, easy to digest foods for a while - B.R.A.T. - bananas, rice, apples and toast.  Eat a small amount of one food at a time and see how it effects you.  Keep notes and only eat foods which don't cause symptoms....for a while, it wont always be like this.

 

Its unlikely that drugs are going to fix you at this stage and trying to fix yourself with drugs is most likely going to make you worse and set back your recovery even further, that's what happened to me.

 

 I feel it is best to just leave my body alone right now. I had more symptoms when trying to reinstate than I do as just baseline withdrawal symptoms. I had some windows before reinstating ...

 

If you wont listen to us, listen to yourself.  Read your own words.

 

If you can get through this part of recovery without doing any more damage to yourself with drugs, then you will be on the road to permanent recovery and a drug free life.  We can't do it for you, you have to dig deep inside and find the strength to get through each moment, until it passes.  I know its hard, but you can do it.

 

You were having some windows before you tried to reinstate before... that means you were starting to recover.  Give yourself more time and the windows will come back.

[Moonlitelotus]

I was feeling better after stopping Lexapro when I had a small amount in my system. Doesn't that count for something? I feel worse now that I have nothing in my system. I feel very depressed to the point it scares me. Just last week I was being productive and driving and now I'm back to laying in my bed all the time. I don't feel like I'm going to survive this right now. I didn't have suicidal or homicidal feelings when I reinstated with Lexapro it just made me throw up and feel like crap probably because the dose was too high and I didn't do it right. I feel like this is my only hope right now... As much as I want to be off meds...I don't know if I can keep doing this. We don't know it won't work. Maybe a tiny dose of my original medication will help. No guarantees if it will, I know. my withdrawal didn't start until November so maybe my window for reinstatment isn't closed all the way yet.. Some people have been able to after that long...

[Petunia]

Maybe a tiny dose of my original medication will help. No guarantees if it will, I know. my withdrawal didn't start until November so maybe my window for reinstatment isn't closed all the way yet.. Some people have been able to after that long...

 

Its true, we don't know anything for certain.  But the fact that you had a bad reaction to trying to reinstate Lexapro gives me a clue that your nervous system is on the brink of collapsing, like mine did.

 

If I could go back in time and reverse all the drug fixes I tried, before finding this site, I would do it, but I can't, I'm just trying to protect you from making the same mistake.

 

But ultimately, its your life, your body and your decision.  Please keep your signature updated with any changes you make.

[Moonlitelotus]

Petunia,

 

I absolutely appreciate that you care and want to warn me. Is it not at all possible that the Lexapro just didn't agree with my body? I know this is now and a different time but in the past I've had terrible withdrawal from cold turkey and jumping off too soon and was able to reinstate two months later. I was experiencing same symptoms then as now. Some might be slightly different but most the same. But reinstatment worked. If it does again I'm sure I would be extremely lucky. Has it not been said that reinstating with ones original medication there is a chance to have a better reaction? I am trying to take everything into consideration.

[Altostrata]

I suggest you discuss this with your doctor. We can't take responsibility for your decisions here.

[Moonlitelotus]

You're welcome to continue to participate, Moonlite, but you need to help us out and stop asking the same questions over and over. You don't seem to read the responses.

 

If you're going to be repetitive, please do it in this one place.

I'm welcome to continue to participate. Apparently not.

[wantrelief]

I am sorry you are feeling so poorly.  I think it might be worth a try to go back to your original medication - if you get an immediate bad reaction, you will have your answer.  Even having seen for herself everything I have been through with ADs, my twin sister basically cold turkeyed Cymbalta, went on another AD that didn't agree with her (or could have been withdrawal symptoms from Cymbalta), then she tried a few different ADs to see if it would "fix" what had happened but none of them worked to stymie her withdrawal from Cymbalta.  Finally after approximately 6 (not sure of the exact time frame) months, she went back to Cymbalta and was able to stabilize and is doing really well now.  If you do try it, I hope it works for you.  By the way, I am in Seattle too!  

[Moonlitelotus]

Yay! Another Washingtonian! Love our beautiful state. thanks for your input I really appreciate it! I tried .5mg and 3-4 hours later was very productive up until now (11pm) I am finally laying in bed. I didn't feel sick and still don't so far. I don't know if it's possible to notice so soon and with such a low dose. I'm not 100% by any means but I sure had a window of energy and better mood. I hope it's real.

[Altostrata]

Moonlite, I can understand why you took my statement about participation the way you did. I didn't mean it that way. I meant you are welcome to participate in your topic.

 

In the brief time you've been here, you have posted all over the site to get attention, even after we've moved many of your posts to your Intro topic and asked you to post questions here.

 

Even though you've demanded such attention, you've ignored responses from admins and mods, wasting their time and attention. Petunia was extremely generous to post above.

 

Consequently, you had an unhappy adventure experimenting with various Lexapro dosages, which demonstrated absolutely nothing about whether reinstatement works or not but spoke volumes about your lack of self-discipline. However, you've been telling people considering reinstatement about your terrible experience, frightening them unnecessarily.

 

Your last post in the Reinstatement topic indicates you still don't understand what it's about.

 

On top of that, you've displayed an extremely bad attitude towards me. It's never a good idea to irritate a moderator.

 

To deal with tapering and withdrawal symptoms, a person has to take responsibility for his or her actions. My impression is that you lack that sense of responsibility towards yourself and towards the community.

 

No one is entitled to support here. The staff does not have to answer your questions if they don't like your attitude. If you have shown a lack of respect towards the staff, responsibility towards the community, and self-discipline, you are your own worst enemy. Do not continue to annoy me.

[Moonlitelotus]

I had a nice window last night a few hours after taking the .5mg of Prozac. Today though about 17-24 hours later I started to have some nausea after eating and anxiety too after eating. Not sure what it is about eating. I suspect blood sugar stuff. My appetite wasn't very good either. I managed to have some protein shakes and some salmon and brown rice. I have not really had the heart burn today or the shortness of breath. I feel pretty lethargic and out of it and dizziness. I am not sure whether to consider this an adverse reaction to the Prozac or not abd I am confused by the initial good reaction having a window 3-4 hours after the dose that lasted until this morning. Is anything about this adverse? Does an adverse reaction happen within a few hours or can it the next day?

[ladybug]

Lethargy and dizziness doesn't sound like an adverse reaction to me. When reinstating you can't expect to feel better overnight, it's a very up and down process. What kind of protein shakes are you doing? Is it a protein shake full of amino acids or a meal replacement shake? I ask because some people can become sensitive to those amino acid shakes. I tried them out for a while and they made me feel funny although it could have been just a coincidence. I haven't had any issues with meal replacement shakes other than an upset stomach from drinking it too fast.

[Moonlitelotus]

It is a meal replacement shake from Costco the Kirkland brand. The nausea just scares me because I had that with trying to reinstate Lexapro. :/ I know I won't be better over night and I really don't want to get worse. I know I am taking a risk here trying prozac and some do not agree. I just dont know what to do, I know I need to be consistent but it is hard when I don't know if I'm having a bad reaction to medication or if it's just withdrawal or an adjustment, I know I was having a bad reaction to Lexapro though. I don't want to go thru that again but I don't want to keep going through withdrawals either. So I feel cautious that I even had nausea and some anxiety today. Not sure what to do at this point..