Marsha: can I taper off geodon before gabapentin?

[Marsha]

Hello and thank you Altostrata. What do you mean-"A straight 10% taper is better than nothing, and by medical standards,it's very gradual, but it doesn't make any sense at all to decrease at an ever-increasing rate." My 10% reductions are livable, but each reduction seems to bring more symptoms. I would really prefer to stay on this schedule. No appointments prior to December 8. Yes, he will notify me if there are any cancellations. I really don't want to go to Stanford for the very reason this paper demonstrates.

[Altostrata]

The paper says 10% reductions based on the original dose. We advice 10% reductions based on the last dose. With our schedule, the amount of the decrement keeps getting smaller.

 

If I were you, I'd keep to the reduction schedule you've been using, until you get an appointment with the doctor. It's possible he'll want you to quit Geodon right away, you'll need to consider if you want to risk that. Let him know the difficulty you've been having with even small decreases.

[Marsha]

"Altostrata"

The paper says 10% reductions based on the original dose. We advice 10% reductions based on the last dose. With our schedule, the amount of the decrement keeps getting smaller.
 
If I were you, I'd keep to the reduction schedule you've been using, until you get an appointment with the doctor. It's possible he'll want you to quit Geodon right away, you'll need to consider if you want to risk that. Let him know the difficulty you've been having with even small decreases.

 

 

He already has suggested that I stop taking it all together. Im not willing to take that risk. Im going with your advice and sticking to the schedule I've been doing. I think it's probably just bruxism anyway. But I will have him evaluate me anyway.

[Altostrata]

In any case, you should get a bite guard to protect your teeth.

[Marsha]

After trying to encourage a fellow member, I have found myself so anxious to get off the geodon faster. What these drugs are doing to my life. Every time I go to take my drug(s), I feel a revulsion that says "there has to be a faster way to get off." But I know there isn't. After giving encouragement to others who are off drugs and struggling I find myself thinking I would rather be off the drugs fast and suffer the consequences. Why do I have to keep putting this poison in my body? But then I come to my senses and remind myself that I am doing it right. I sleeping well, I am not suicidal, it's just going to take time. I know I am not alone. I remind myself that if I went off quickly and got suicidal, I would be possibly be injected with a long acting antipsychotic which most probably make the akathisia return. Would a psychiatric medical directive be warranted in my case since I am most probably would have a very bad reaction to any other psychoactive drugs now. That has been the case since 2013. And a medical ID bracelet.

[Meimeiquest]

Another thing to be mindful of is that you want to be stable enough to move on to tapering Librium as well. You are looking to minimize your overall exposure. That is where I messed up coming off an AP so fast.

[Marsha]

Another thing to be mindful of is that you want to be stable enough to move on to tapering Librium as well. You are looking to minimize your overall exposure. That is where I messed up coming off an AP so fast.

Hi. Meimei. Is what your saying is to take the time to properly come off the AP then tackle the librium taper?

[Meimeiquest]

I think you have already put some thought into that right? There's probably no one right answer. But what you can't afford to do is destabilize yourself on one drug and be stuck for a long tune on the other.

[Marsha]

I think you have already put some thought into that right? There's probably no one right answer. But what you can't afford to do is destabilize yourself on one drug and be stuck for a long tune on the other.

I really have no choice but to come off the AP first since it's serotonegic quality activates me and causes insomnia without the benzo. So I have to take the benzo while I see the AP withdrawal through.

[Altostrata]

Sleeping well counts for a lot! Don't minimize how important that is.

[Marsha]

I have not been sleeping well. The geodon activates me. But I am also tapering it and it causes sleep problems from tapering as well. The librium has never really helped with sleep that well because the geodon is so activating. What can I do? If it wasn't for the librium, I would get no sleep at all. I see my doctor on Tuesday I know I can sleep if I take clonazepam. It always worked well for sleep. Would I be taking a chance since clonazepam is much stronger than librium in causing hyperalerting? If so I have no choice but to dramatically increase the librium. I can't take trazodone I feel so much better being off it. I just need something to knock me out for a year while I get off geodon. If that's what I have to do so be it. I'm really stuck here. Can anyone help? Nothing in the symptoms and self care section can help this situation. I can't function without sleep.

[Altostrata]

I don't know if adding to the benzo load will cause a paradoxical reaction, Marsha.

 

Sorry if I'm asking this again: What time of day are you taking your drugs?

[Marsha]

I don't know if adding to the benzo load will cause a paradoxical reaction, Marsha.

 

Sorry if I'm asking this again: What time of day are you taking your drugs?

hi Altostrata and thank you. 300 mgs gabapentin and 30 mgs prevacid 8:00 am. 100 mcg levothyroxine 7:30 am. 25 mgs librium 4:00 pm 300 mgs gabapentin 4:00 pm 43.95 mgs geodon 7:00 pm 25 mgs librium 9:30 pm 25 mgs gabapentin 10:00 pm 25 mgs librium 10:00 pm. I have talked with my doctor about changing from librium to diazepam or clonazepam since Medicare only approved librium for a year. When I first went to the addiction Dr (who I am not seeing anymore) I had just recently stopped the trazodone. The clinic I was going to was pushing to get people off benzos. This was before I knew how toxic antipsychotics are and that the clonazepam I was taking was allowing me to sleep. When she switched me to librium I took two 25 mg capsules together which did cause dreadful akathisia. Had to take benadryl to make it stop. I can now take them pretty much at the same time without that reaction. I'm pretty sure I can add more librium. But going to diazepam or clonazepam might be taking a chance as evidenced by my switch to librium. But EPS is a possible side effect of librium and when I questioned the addiction Dr about it she dismissed my concern and said i would be fine. Well she was wrong. I could still get EPS from the librium and also get paradoxical reaction if I try a different benzo that is covered by insurance. Is there a way I can test the other benzos?

[Altostrata]

If you find Geodon activating, have you tried taking it earlier in the day? You would move it earlier by a couple of hours a day.

[Marsha]

If you find Geodon activating, have you tried taking it earlier in the day? You would move it earlier by a couple of hours a day.

Yes I have tried taking it earlier in the day. Makes no difference. This is madness. I am going to see the doctor on Tuesday and get prescriptions for a couple of different benzodiazepines and just stop taking the geodon. I will just deal with the consequences. I don't feel I have any other option at this point. The symptoms of TD are increasing. Now included with the jaw movement and clenching is rapid eye blinking and finger and hand tremers. I need to stop taking geodon now.

[Altostrata]

Very sorry you have to take this leap. Your guess of what to do is as good as anyone's now.

[Marsha]

I didn't sleep a wink last night. So I am having a telephone visit with my doctor. I don't know why this is happening but I am losing my ability to sleep. I had two trazodone 50 mg tablets which I took. Last night and the night before no sleep. I have taken extra librium but it doesn't help. I think I will get a prescription for trazodone and take it for a month before I begin my geodon taper again. I believe that I have developed tardive insomnia in taking antipsychotic drugs for 12 years. None of them makes me sleep anymore. But the trazodone reinstatement seemed to work. I felt really good both days after I took it. The librium doesn't work for sleep anymore. So I am going to alternative the geodon and libriumtapers. Both drugs are causing physical and mental problems. I guess this is the way I am going to have to taper. Am I doing this right?

[Altostrata]

It could be you're getting a paradoxical reaction from the Librium -- too much Librium -- which points to tapering the Librium.

 

But aren't you taking the Librium for the dyskinesia?

 

All you can do is try one thing at a time and see what works.

[Marsha]

It could be you're getting a paradoxical reaction from the Librium -- too much Librium -- which points to tapering the Librium.

 

But aren't you taking the Librium for the dyskinesia?

 

All you can do is try one thing at a time and see what works.

can paradoxical reaction from librium cause only insomnia? If so I will have to taper off the librium and take trazodone for sleep. Then taper off the geodon. Oh I feel lost. It just seems there has been one stumbling block after another. But I will carry on.

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry this is so complicated and hazy, Marsha.

[Meimeiquest]

This is speculation only: what if you are responding to the withdrawal of the antihistamine effects of Geodon (it's not a strong antihistamine like Serouel or Zyprexa but it's still an antihistamine). Might a simple antihistamine be safer than these much more complex drugs that hit on lots of receptors and/or have complex metabolites? Atenolol or GABA might be other one-action alternatives. just throwing out ideas, because it is so hazy.

[Altostrata]

My guess is the antihistamine effects of most psychiatric drugs is very weak, Meimei.

[Marsha]

I don't know what to do. My mind is a jumbled mess. My doctor switched me back to clonazepam today. I spoke with Dr Breggin today and he said i should go into a hospital and be taken off geodon in a few days. I'm scared out of my wits with the reaction to the librium last night. I don't think hes right. I am going back on trazodone and wait till I can reduce the benzos down then resume the geodon taper. I took 1mg clonazepam and have calmed down. I will take the other half later. That equals 60 mgs of librium. I sure don't want to take anymore librium. Am I doing this the right way? Oh I can't even focus I am so upset with today's tranpirations. What do you mean by antihistamine? What about GABA?

[Altostrata]

You've talked to Dr. Breggin? That's unusual.

 

Don't worry about antihistamine and don't worry about GABA.

 

Why did your doctor switch you from Librium?

 

The reaction to Librium -- do you mean inability to sleep? Please stay calm. While this is grueling, it's not unusual when going off drugs.

 

What happened to the dyskinesia?

[Marsha]

Yes switched to clonazepam because of what happened with librium. Dr said clonazepam shouldn't cause the reaction that librium did. I have never done well on librium. The dyskenisia comes and goes. Dr Breggin said it may become more pronounced when I am off the geodon but it may be temporary. Hes interested in whether legal action should be pursued.

[Meimeiquest]

My guess is the antihistamine effects of most psychiatric drugs is very weak, Meimei.

Interested why you say that.

[Altostrata]

I've read papers on the comparative antihistamine effects.

[Marsha]

The switch to clonazepam seemed to restore my sleep. My doctor also prescribed trazodone which I haven't taken yet. I'm just concerned that I will lose my ability to sleep altogether. Maybe I should start taking the trazodone in preparation for the geodon withdrawal that will have to be done quickly due to the dyskenisia. And then I read Stuart shipkos article about akathisia showing up up to 12 months after discontinuation of the drug. Also I am not sure how long the clonazepam with keep me sleeping. I just want to do what's best. This and I guess most people's situations are complex from what I have read. My doctor also prescribed lamotrgine which he says will make me sleep but I have read that for many it causes insomnia. Don't think I will take it. I think I am in a lot of trouble with the sleep. I am very concerned the insomnia will return. But this is very common in withdrawal right? What is the right thing to do here?

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I would not add trazodone or lamotrigine right now. That is making too many drug changes at once, and if the clonazepam is working, that's enough.
 
From my experience, I would consider lamotrigine later, see One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

Lamictal (lamotrigine) to calm post-discontinuation withdrawal...
 
I would avoid trazodone, see this Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)
 
Do not worry about what Dr. Shipko said.

 

Your doctor has just prescribed 2 additional drugs! What is his strategy for going off Geodon?

[Marsha]

Hello. Altostrata and thank you so much for sticking with me through this ordeal. I agree with not taking the trazodone at all. I will revisit introducing lamotrgine at a later time. Increadably my doctor totally ignored my request for geodon taper. I have an appointment at uc Davis in February. Couldn't get one sooner. There I will be evaluated for the dyskensia and geodon withdrawal. Hope my ability to sleep lasts. I guess my doctor is just going with my current geodon taper. All of the neuroleptics now cause insomnia so I am hoping and praying the clonazepam continues to work. I explained this to my doctor. Due to the complex issues involved I just think hes grasping at straws at this point. At least he won't cut off the benzodiazepine.

[Marsha]

Hello. Altostrata and thank you so much for sticking with me through this ordeal. I agree with not taking the trazodone at all. I will revisit introducing lamotrgine at a later time. Increadably my doctor totally ignored my request for geodon taper. I have an appointment at uc Davis in February. Couldn't get one sooner. There I will be evaluated for the dyskensia and geodon withdrawal. Hope my ability to sleep lasts. I guess my doctor is just going with my current geodon taper. All of the neuroleptics now cause insomnia so I am hoping and praying the clonazepam continues to work. I explained this to my doctor. Due to the complex issues involved I just think hes grasping at straws at this point. At least he won't cut off the benzodiazepine.

also, he prescribed the lamotrgine in much to high starting dose. 25 mg.

[Marsha]

I just discovered that I fell asleep last night early after taking my clonazepam and I just found the 300 mg capsule of gabapentin that I was supposed to take last night. I felt kind of strange tonight. But I am okay. This is only my third day of clonazepam since switching from librium. I hope I didn't mess things up.

[Marsha]

Still sleeping. Very scared. Don't want to die from these drugs.

[Altostrata]

Try not to be scared, Marsha, that makes the bad stuff even worse.

 

Did we talk about reducing gabapentin?

[Marsha]

Try not to be scared, Marsha, that makes the bad stuff even worse.

 

Did we talk about reducing gabapentin?

hello Altostrata. No we didn't talk about reducing gabapentin. Petunia mentioned in one of the earlier posts on my thread to taper the geodon then thegabapentin then the clonazepam. I'm just so afraid the insomnia will return from the geodon and getting a paradoxical reaction from the benzo and not being able to sleep at all. Then there is the dyskenisia. Its so hard not to be afraid since that night of no sleep. I feel like I'm being attacked by the devil. I keep thinking about stopping the geodon. Just stopping it. But I know better. What should I do if the clonazepam stops helping me sleep?

[Altostrata]

Don't worry about the clonazepam for now.

 

Why are you taking gabapentin?