simack: Trying to taper off antipsychotic's (saphris/zyprexa).

[simack]

Thanks again Chessie, I'm guessing there no point asking how long this will take to heal, and that it will when it's ready. I keep reminding myself of oskcajga's story about his adverse reaction to pot, and the hellish journey he went through yet still healed.... I don't think I can continue work in this state though.... In going to have to take leave of I can

[simack]

Just checking in, I don't want to speak too soon but my anxiety seems to have returned to a tolerable level for now. My sleep is still fractured but I'm managing around 5 hours most nights and I find I can function well enough on this most days. I apologise for losing my composure these last couple of weeks and send a big thank you for the support during that time.

That level of constant panic was painfully intense and to be honest I was terrified for my life. I have never experienced fear that great before and never ever want to again

Going to dig in for a long hold now and hope I'll be able to taper again one day

[ChessieCat]

Hi simack,

 

That's really good to hear.  So it took about 2-2.5 weeks for things to settle.  I imagine if felt much longer to you.

 

Now to take good care of yourself and "do nothing".  In other words, nothing that is going to upset the apple cart.

 

Remember that doing nothing is really doing something even though it doesn't seem like it to you.  You are giving your brain the chance to do what it needs to do.

[simack]

Thanks Chessie, will do!

[simack]

Well that didn't last long, I'm back to having waves of intense anxiety again. I thought I was part the worst of it for a while but I'm right back into the thick of it. Hoping this passes soon

[simack]

Doing very badly lately, these last few days have seen my anxiety reach a critical point, I'm having almost overwhelm feelings of doom like I'm constantly about to die, I can't understand why I'm destabilised again after feeling so well all last week.

Should I continue to hold? This is the worst I've felt even worse than when I quit saphris.

Is this kindling from switching to liquid Seroquel then back? Or is this akathisia?

Scared for my life at this point

[ChessieCat]

Has anything changed since 16 August?  Food, drinks (alcohol, caffeine), high sugar intake, supplements, outside stressors?  Exercise?  Change in the weather, or have you been sick (apart from WD that is).  Have you been sleeping okay?  Have you changed you diet in any way?

 

Just trying to help you brain storm possible cause/s.

[simack]

Thanks Chessie, no everything has been pretty much the same, sleep had been suprisingly good up until last Thursday night ,which is sort of when things gradually started going bad. I've been sleeping ok since though., The only thing I've changed is taking Curcumin, which I've used before in wd with no issues, also I started taking it about for days before having these panic waves, I'll stop taking it and see if it helps

[ChessieCat]

"The only thing I've changed is taking Curcumin, which I've used before in wd with no issues,"

 

What may have been okay before may not be now.  If that is the only change, then definitely give it a miss and see what happens.  Hopefully that's the cause and things will settle down again.  This WD business can be pretty crazy

[simack]

Thanks again Chessie, I'll stop the Curcumin and hope things stabilise again

[simack]

Well I've tried cutting out the Curcumin, it seemed to work yesterday as I had no feelings of doom/dread however today my anxiety is still Sky high. I really don't know what to do from here.

Is this still fallout from trying to switch to liquid Seroquel and back? If I keep holding will it eventually pass?

I'm terrified I'm going to end up hospitalized and lose my job or worse

[ChessieCat]

Hi simack,

 

I doubt very much that it has to do with your liquid Seroquel incident.

 

I've just done a search on SA's ashwaghanda topic and found this post from Gia:

 

"I used to take ashwaganda daily...it's one of many supplements that went south on me...it's now agitating and very unpleasant...just FYI"

 

It might be worth stopping the ashwaganda to see if that may be what is causing the problems now.

[simack]

Ok thanks Chessie I'll give that a shot tonight

[simack]

Sorry to post again, just wondering if it would be wise to try tapering the ashwagahnda instead of stopping it considering that its a mild gaba antagonist?

Also sorry to ask again but could this still be the THC oil damage?

[ChessieCat]

I was thinking the same thing about the ashwaghanda, as in tapering.

 

As for the THC oil, you had a good window after 2.5 weeks.  It may still be related to that, but I hate to say it, who knows???  Using the oil may have messed up the ashwaghanda, but again nobody can really say.  To be honest, I'm grasping at straws, just trying to think of possibilities.

 

It's interesting that Gia ended up having issues with the ashwaghanda.  I think that eliminating it may be the way to go.

[simack]

Ok thanks, I greatly appreciate your help and time Chessie, I'll try slowly tapering by cutting tablets in half and drop weekly

[simack]

Hey all I'm sorry to post yet again, I've started tapering the ashwagahnda but so far it is making little difference, I'm quite terrified to be honest that this is going to be permanent this time, and my cns will not recover from whatever it was I did to destabilise it.

I'm back to work tomorrow and if scaring the hell out of me, I'm thinking my days off being able to hold down a job are nearly over and will need to look into applying for disability...

Also someone suggested to me that I may be experiencing akathisia without the need to constantly move, is this at all possible?

[scallywag]

How long have you been taking the ashgawanda? How much do you take and how often?

[simack]

I've been taking the ashwagahnda daily for around for years now, I generally take about 2 grams

[simack]

Another day of horrendous anxiety and feelings of inner torment and doom, is this what akathisia feels like?.

I am just wondering what my plan of attract should be from here on out, should I continue hold for a while longer and see what happens?

[scallywag]

simack, It may take a while, more than 3 weeks,  to restabilize after the "messing around" with cutting doses and THC oil etc. That's a tough lesson to learn.  Give yourself at least one month after making any change, including supplement decreases/increases/additions.
 
Edited to add:
Are you taking notes of your symptoms and the times of your doses and supplements?

As well, this post was less than 5 weeks ago:
 

If it makes you feel worse, stop tapering!

Too many changes -- you may feel you're not making progress, but you need to be much more patient. You need to let your nervous system settle down.

Is your signature up to date? What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

[simack]

Hey everyone just checking in again, things are still going badly for me at the moment. I'm experiencing a few days of tolerable anxiety followed by three to four days of horrific intense feelings of doom/terror as if I'm on the verge of death.

It's been a good five weeks since i destabilised myself and I can't help but feel things will not improve for me from here. My biggest fear is that whatever I did to cause this, will be permanent this time and I'm going to end up sectioned I'm still holding my dose on everything, hoping that things will improve.

Am I going to heal from this if I keep holding??

[Campervan41]

Hi Simack I hope you feel better soon. Tapering off of anti psychotics is tough. I've been holding my dose of respiridone since January and I don't feel ready to start tapering again at the moment because of poor sleep. I think the key is to be patient and just take one day at a time. Just wondered if it's worth looking at anything like mindfulness or CBT to learn some tools and strategies to help you through this really tough time. Our thoughts, feelings and behaviour are all supposed to be linked and some people (not everyone) find that learning to control and recognise negative thought patterns can help the way they feel. I'm not trying to promote CBT by the way, it's just a suggestion. I went through a really crappy phrase in January/ February this year but it passed. I will start to taper again but only a 10% decrease every month at the most and only if I feel ok. You just can't rush this our brains have been changed by the drugs and we need to just take things really slow to prevent relapse.

 

Best wishes

Camper

[simack]

Thanks campervan I appreciate the help, Yeah I'm not I'm any rush to cut anything at the moment. I'm just holding on paying that this wave will eventually settle down, I will look at ways to handle the anxiety and feelings of intense doom.

[simack]

Hi everyone, I just thought I'd check in with how I'm doing. It's been around 9 weeks now since my crash due to switching to liquid seroquel and back and trying THC oil.
I'm still not back to where I was previously, my main symptoms at the moment are DP/DR and anxiety, they range in severity and I'm able to have brief moments of lucidity for a few hours every now and then.
I'm afraid to say this in case it returns but the feelings of intense anxiety/doom/terror seem to have passed for now. My sleep has remained relatively stable somehow.
I'm going to continue to hold...most likely until next year the way I'm healing....Feeling very overwhelmed and defeated that once I settle from this I still have three meds to taper off, I honestly don't know if I have the strength to endure three more tapers.
I often consider the idea of CT'ing the antipsychotics, considering I'm struggling now so I might as well be med free and struggling...but then I realize how dangerous and intense that would be, plus I have a family to support and I cant risk it.
I feel like I'm trapped at the top of a burning building with three options, waiting for a miracle-holding, facing the flames-CT or jumping to a quick yet certian death
I'm sorry I shouldn't complain I know allot of you are doing it much tougher than I am, I hope you are all doing ok, and wish you all a speedy recovery.

[herewego]

Glad to hear your sleep is stable at least. Definitely don't go C/T - it could be so much worse. Wishing you a speedy stabilizing.

[simack]

Hey everyone just checking in again... I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I have been tinkering with doses again.. After 11 weeks since my crash I had the idea that what I was experiencing was an adverse reaction to switching Seroquel to liquid and back. My thoughts were that if I taper a tiny bit it may alleviate my symptoms a little, I cut from 50 to 37.5 for two nights before switching back to 50 Sunday night.... Monday I felt great but today the anxiety and overwhelming terror and doom feeling is back.. It's my fault and I accept that my continual tinkering is hampering my recovery.. The plus side is I know exactly what is causing my crashes now, it wasn't a reaction to the THC oil... But my own impatience. I'm hoping this time isn't the time that snaps my cns in half, and that I will stabilise again soon...I know I continually say this but I'm promising to myself not to touch anything ever again this is now life and death for me and I can't afford to become disabled again.. My Family needs me alive and functioning even if I'm not back to 100%

[AliG]

Hi Simack.  I'm sorry to hear this. It's frustrating for you and this " tinkering" has indeed hampered your progress. However, if you have gained understanding and as a result can gain stability from this point on, then you will on the road to recovery.

[simack]

Thanks aliG, my main worry now is if I hold long enough will I ever reach a point where I'm able to taper again or am I stuck holding these doses indefinitely now?

[simack]

Hi everyone I'm sorry to be posting here again but I just wanted to clarify something that's been bothering me.

Is it possible that the intense Feelings of doom and terror I experienced with my last crash was in fact akathisia even though I have had zero need to be in motion or Keep moving?

And if I hold will it improve?

I also have a worrying be symptom that is scaring the hell out of me... Towards bed time when I'm about to sleep I have intense panic waves followed by intrusive delusional thoughts.. The scary part is these thoughts and delusions are starting to creep into normal awake conciseness for me... Is this from the THC Still? I'm afraid I'm completelyy loosing my grip on reality here

[simack]

Please I am looking for some help regarding my new situation.. It seems I now have fairly Intense akathisia to add to my symptoms, what's the best way to help combat this? I couldn't sleep last night due to constant Feeling's of terror and doom I just couldn't relax at all.. I'm terrified at the moment, is trialling propranolol a good idea? I don't know how long I can hang on feeling like this. Any advice? Anyone please? I haven't been changing any doses lately so I don't know why this is happening to me

[scallywag]

I'm sorry you're going through these intense emotions of terror and doom right now.  Adding a drug to deal with a withdrawal symptom is rarely a good idea, I'm sad to say. Why are you thinking of propranolol?

[simack]

Thanks scallywag, I was thinking of propranolol because it's listed as a treatment for akathisia. I'm fairly convinced that I'm having episodes of aka even though I don't have the need to be in motion aspect of it.

It's just such a powerful consuming emotion of dread, that I would try anything at all just to make it stop.. Suicide was one of those options. I'm in a window at the moment thankfully, just praying it lasts for a while

[Shep]

Hi, simack.

 

I feel for you, as I had akathisia very badly throughout this journey.

 

It's a difficult symptom because like you wrote, it doesn't always involve the need to be in motion. It's an internal restlessness that can make you feel like you're going to crawl out of your skin, it's so uncomfortable.

 

It's really important to learn to get through these uncomfortable patches without adding more drugs. Many times, a drug that promises relief for a symptom has that exact symptom as a withdrawal effect. So then you're trapped on yet another drug and having to deal with the same withdrawal symptoms that you were trying to seek help from. It's a never ending ride on a very dangerous drug merry-go-round. 

 

Add to it the concept of Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity and you'll find your CNS becomes even more and more fragile and destabilized. 

 

Can you learn to distract yourself during episodes of akathisia? Watching TV, listening to music, playing video games? 

 

Another trick I learned was to use a mindfulness technique where you don't "attach" any thoughts to the feelings of akathisia in your body. Remember, akathisia is a "chemical" anxiety. If you can let the feelings flow through your body without attaching any thoughts to them, it will keep your thoughts from spiraling down into the suicidal places. 

 

One technique that can work really well is by "changing the channel" -  "Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

 

 

 

[simack]

Thanks Shep, I appreciate your advice and help. Going to try employing mindfulness and changing the channel with the next wave.

I am just scared as to what to do next, even the slightest adjustment in doses leads to akathisia now. I fear that I'm so severely kindled that I'll never be able to resume tapering again.

If I hold for an extended time will the kindling settle down enough to allow me to micro taper again?

[scallywag]

You may want to practice mindfulness and/or changing the channel now so that your skill level is up a bit before the next wave. That's probably what you meant in your post anyway.