tgirl: help tapering from remeron

[tgirl]

Bubble,

I will not be tapering for a long time.

I am just wondering if I should updose again?

I'm not thinking straight at this point.

I feel that this thing is spinning out of control.

I am really freaking out.

 

will it get better?

[ten0275]

hi tgirl,

so sorry to see you are struggling. it was nice not to hear from you for so long    as it seemed a no-news-is-good-news type scenario. as you asked bubble directly, kindly wait for her response. but as a fellow mirtazapine taperer, i would not move quickly to updose again. it looks like you upped only a few days ago. it takes some time for stabilization to occur. and while you want to reach that point of stabilization, you also want to do so w/ the smallest dose possible. when i have erred and tapered too quickly, i tend to hold an updose for two weeks before deciding if i should move again. a few times when it has been absolutely horrid, i have waited only a week - but it has to be drastic.

please try hard not to freak out. i know you know it will only intensify your symptom pattern. it will get better. you will stabilize again. you simply have to be more prudent and patient in your stabilization trek upward than you were in your descent from 7.5mg downward. freaking out about the symptoms will only induce the desire to updose quickly. i think you are doing precisely the right things now. and bubble's advice is absolutely wonderful.

it is hard to say why you would feel good for 6 or 7 months and then crash - but it happens to many. there are some really good explanations of why this might happen around on the site. without question though, you tapered too fast when you did. it is easy to do this with mirtazapine. for me, i tend to feel lousy the day after a cut, but then i feel pretty darn nice for about two weeks after that - which entices me to cut again. but i don't. because i know from past experience that the major influx of withdrawal symptoms occur about two weeks from the cut, and last a duration of a week or two - bringing me to the 4 week mark when i can begin to ponder a cut again. ta-da.

hang in there, t - and take it slow. i have made tapering errors at least three times. some bad ones too. and i thought i had screwed everything up for keeps. i was pleasantly surprised however when things evened out again. it didn't happen quickly. relief will come to you. please try to stay in-the-moment with the symptoms and not get up ahead of them in the fear-trap of what-ifs.

much strength...

dave

[tgirl]

Dave,

At the times where you screwed up how long did it take to feel better? I do realize that it is different for everyone.

Thank you so much for your help!

T

[tgirl]

And where are you now as far as drops?

[ten0275]

t, hey.

my last screw-up was the result of a syringe discrepancy. and it was a fairly sizeable cut percentage-wise. i thought i was totally screwed. it took me somewhere in the neighborhood of a month, or even a little longer to stabilize once i'd realized the error and updosed. i think it very much depends - on myriad factors. try not concern yourself with when stabilization will occur - though i realize yesterday would be preferable! i would refrain form setting deadlines for yourself in that way. have confidence that it will come and be thoughtful in your dosing. don't updose reactively in a knee-jerk way. it won't be an overnight fix. but i saw a few days back that you had accomplished some sleep and lessoning symptoms - and bubble rightly pointed out your 8/19 post was indicative of a small window. try to have the patience to see how the current pattern of windows and waves play out.

hang in there, t - you can do this. you didn't break anything. it's just a set-back.

dave

 

ps. i am holding, holding, holding... my nervous system needs time to stabilize and i have some life-stuff happening now. so straight sailing as i go forward for the time being... i'm below 2mg - there'll be time to cut later, and i am not uncomfortable now.

[Hopefull]

Hi Tgirl,

How are you doing?

Great to hear from you Dave.

Nice to hear that you are doing well.

Best wishes, Hopefull

[tgirl]

Hopefully,

I'm hanging in.

Thanks,

T

[tgirl]

Askin for some support here:

 

Not doing well today!

When will this get better?

I'm beginning to lose hope!

It is all I can do to get through every minute per day!

I'm still at 0.3 ml per day and my symptoms seem to be getting worse.

I was not depressed before I started taking these meds. I feel like I'm stuck this way forever.

Does it get better?

My memory has deteriated terribly!

I'm just so sick of feeling this way.

Should I updose?

Any advise?

 

Also how do I update my signature?

Thanks for any help,

T

[LoveandLight]

I am with you with the depression! The other symptoms are tough but I think it's something with depression side of things that makes us feel we will be stuck like this forever..

[bubble]

Regarding the signature: go to you profile page (if that's what it's called, but I hope you know what I mean). Top right corner press Edit my Profile and you will see Signature on your left.

 

It would be really good to have it updated so that we don't have to search through your thread.

 

It seems this will take a while. I would just keep on reading the beautiful post from Dave. You say:TODAY I'm feeling bad. Were there any days you didn't feel so bad?

 

Dave said it takes him a month to stabilise but it really depends on how much your CNS resents what it had been subjected to.

 

I can share my example of not treating my CNS right: I went on an exhausting trip with lots of time zone changing and I have been struggling for a month now. It also seems like it's getting worse but actually it's just getting different. It's just that I'm not surprised: I treated my CNS badly and now I have to pay for it.

 

Regarding the updose, your guess is as good as mine. If it was me, my logic would be that the brain really misses the drug too badly and its absence is causing too much stress so I would updose gently especially if you really feel things are only getting worse and there is no improvement, however slight, that you to cling to.

 

It will get better. You have come a long way. You know so much now. We just need patience and then some more of it..

[tgirl]

Bubbles,

Thanks for your help.

I did change my signature. I don't know why it's not showing up here.

T

[n1gm4]

When pain or symptoms become intolerable, I think it's important to talk about how we feel to someone close (friend, family) or to a professional, doctor, psychologist etc.

From personal experience, it is sometime better to take a step back and later take two step forward. Toughing out the symtom can become really really hard. I try for months to endure the anxiety and the insomnia before crawling back to my doctor to a prescription. I'm not saying to choose the easiest way...but when you feel desperate and losing hope, maybe it's time to get help.

I sincerely wish you get better soon.

[DeeDee]

Tgirl- waiting to stabilize is brutal. I am right there with you. The depression is the worst because it makes you think you will never get better- and it feels impossible to think positive thoughts. This symptom is so hard and so real. I just wanted to encourage you that it will pass and I am right there with you.

[Petunia]

Bubbles,

Thanks for your help.

I did change my signature. I don't know why it's not showing up here.

T

 

After making the changes, you need to press the save button before leaving the page.

[Hopefull]

Hi Tgirl,

 

It is really hard I know. But things will improve. Don't loose hope. You had window periods for couple of months. This will pass. It is not permanent.

 

Take care, Hopefull.

[tgirl]

Looking for some advice.

I've been holding after an up dose from 0.1 to 0.3 for three weeks with no changes. Sleep is about 4/5 hours- wake to anxiety- burning skin( no cortisol mornings Yet)- by noon it turns into depression.

Should I up dose? I'm really getting scared!

Thank you

[bubble]

Sorry you are not feeling well Tgirl.

 

I wish Dave who had experience with tapering Remeron and updosing it coudl have a look. I really don't know. Such situations are very tricky and there are no rules.

 

How did you feel after updosing last time: like: yes, that's the way to go or even not much difference but not worse either? It's possible that all those reductions are still catching up with you ;( I'm impressed how you managed to stay calm and patient endurng these awful symptoms for 3 weeks... The pattern you describe is pretty standard for a destabilised CNS. No change can actually be good because unfortunately these things can get worse.

 

I'm reluctant to suggest updosing because we are introducing instability again but then again maybe the removal produced a too big shock and more drug could support the structure and help the brain to rebuild itself.

 

Sorry I can be more helpful...

[tgirl]

Bubbles,

Thank you so much for responding.

I'm wondering how you are doing after your travels?

I can't even imagine travel right now!

 

To answer your question:

I felt no different after my up dose.

 

What is scaring me the most is just the uncertainty of knowing if it's from a series of too fast tapers or if its because I'm down so far on the drug itself. In other words, what if I'm on to little of the drug, that it's not even registering in my ns?

I'm scared I'll never be the same.

Thanks for your reply, it means the world to me!

T

[bubble]

I CT-ed for 4 or 5 times as advised by my doctor. I had no idea what was going on with me except feeling like you say: that I have been completely broken and I woudl never again be anything close to normal. That fear might easily be the worst part of the whole experience.

 

And it wasn't justified. But even now when hit by a wave I again think the same: this is it! Humpty Dumpty fell off a wall... That's why waves are waves...

 

Thanks for asking about me: actually today has been the first fairly good day after a month of post-travel unwellness. There were times when I couldn't leave my room to go to a store and I was in my early 20ies. I could never imagine travelling. But here I am now. I like that you say RIGHT NOW. Because it's only a temporary thing.

 

We are often surprised how very little of these drugs can make a huge difference. (When I reduce 0.04 mg of Xanax I can be in the worst of agony for days). But if your gut feeling is that it's not enough that's as good as anybody's guess...

 

Hang in there.

[ten0275]

tgirl, hey.

 

Sorry to hear things are still troublesome. I know you are scared you'll "never be the same." That may be true, but not towards the negative. You may actually find that once all is stable and solid, you'll be better than ever.

 

I think Bubble is dead-on. If your gut feeling is that .3mg is not doing the job, then that's the way it is. As Mirtazapine users, we know what to expect when it is working, right? On the low doses when it is working, we find that sleep comes after we take it, anxiety abates, and perhaps we also find we are hungrier than usual. My guess is that you are not seeing the sleep, the anxiolytic effect. So in your case, you may wish to consider another updose now that you have held for three weeks without any discernible relief.

 

You see, the hesitation comes because having been off the drug for some time, your body has already made adjustments in the drug's absence. As a result, no one can know which level of updosing will do the trick, or if any level of updosing will do the trick. Further, you don't want to over-correct and get yourself at a dose that exceeds what you need. In time of course, you'll have to/want to taper again - and when that time comes, you'll appreciate the discretion you use in updosing now.

 

If it were me and I were suffering to a point where I felt I needed more relief, I'd probably consider a modest updose. Perhaps 1mg. But this choice is in your hands, you need to do what seems intuitive to you. The literature on Mirtazapine indicates that less than 15mg produces anxiolytic benefits. Anything over that is an accelerator. Personally, it is my observation that those among us with sensitive nervous systems, including myself, are wise not to cross 7.5 and best below 3.75mg.

 

Also, is your current liquid preparation fairly fresh? I find that if I let my bottle go out of date, the efficacy of the drug is markedly less. Just something to be mindful of.

 

Mull over a jump to 1mg. If you feel good about it, then perhaps you will. When I stopped Remeron the first time and holy hell broke loose, my psychiatrist rammed me right up the flagpole to 30mg and I never felt decent until I got below 10mg. I think cautiously updosing, and then waiting patiently and observing before doing it again, is a pragmatic and wise approach. I hope this makes sense.

 

Hang in there, sister.

 

In solidarity,

 

Dave

[tgirl]

Having a rough day! I just don't think I can take much more of this!!!

When will this stop???

[dalsaan]

My guess is you have tapered too fast. I'm not clear but it looks like you tapered from 7.5 to .1 from December to August? And up dosed to .3 at some stage but that hasn't made a difference. Is that right?

 

How long have you been on .3? What was the last dose you were stable on and when was that?

 

D

[tgirl]

Yes Dalsaan,

That is correct. I tapered from December to August 10% every 10 days and felt fine. Until August. I was at .1 and all hell broke loose. So I updosed to .3. Where I have sat for a month.

 

Thank you for any advice.

Thirl

[tgirl]

I guess the last dose I was stable at would have been .2

[Petunia]

It sounds to me like your fast tapering has suddenly caught up with you and I was thinking the same as bubble and Dave

 

Regarding the updose, your guess is as good as mine. If it was me, my logic would be that the brain really misses the drug too badly and its absence is causing too much stress so I would updose gently especially if you really feel things are only getting worse and there is no improvement, however slight, that you to cling to.

 

If it were me and I were suffering to a point where I felt I needed more relief, I'd probably consider a modest updose. Perhaps 1mg. But this choice is in your hands, you need to do what seems intuitive to you.

 

I don't know what dose to suggest though.

[tgirl]

Updosed to 1 mg tonight. Hopefully I can find some peace.

[Hopefull]

Hi tgirl,

I hope you will find some peace and stabilize. I am right with you.

Hopefull

[melanie]

Hello tgirl,

 

You will get out of this sh*tty drug Remeron. I only took it for three weeks, back in 2010 I think. Quit cold turkey because of the weight gain. Was on Lexapro at the same time. So I can't help much with the process of withdrawal. I only remember extreme apathy and eating like crazy, though sleeping better. But it wasn't worth it. It is an evil drug.

 

Do you know Robin Williams had it in his system when he died? He also took Seroquel. Was a recovering alcoholic, it is all so sad.

 

Big hugs to you,

Mel

[tgirl]

Hello M,

Yes, I do realize the Robin Williams was on remeron( was actually trying to forget).

Hope you are well.

Tgirl

[tgirl]

Can anyone give me their opinion:

 

When this all started with the remeron, I was at 45, and doing well. One day out of the blue I just woke up with anxiety x100.

What happened there??

Perhaps ss?

Perhaps tolerance??

Perhaps poop out?

 

I do realize that any advice is just guesswork. But, I'm just curious to know your thoughts?

Tgirl

[AliG]

T girl,

 

Just a guess, but it sounds to me like it , "pooped" !   I notice , you're also on Levothyroxitine, for 10 years or so.  That could be playing a part , in this as well.  I assume it's for " hypothyroid"  which can be " tricky", especially when other drugs are involved.

 

I would just try & move forward, with your tapering , after a period of stabilization.

 

I hope it goes well.

 

Ali.

[tgirl]

Thank you Ali!

[tgirl]

Well it's been 21 days since I up dosed and no changes.

 

I fact it's gotten worse!

 

I can't sleep, I can't think, I triggered ocd( never had this before) I'm depressed, if I do sleep I wake up sopping wet from sweat, my anxiety is through the roof, stomach issues, joint issues, pretty much bed all day.

 

How am I ever going to get through this?

Just looking for some support.

Thanks

[freespirit]

You'll find your way through this Tgirl. I agree with Ali about thyroid, which might be affected by the changes through Remeron. It could be too, that the faster tapering just finally caught up with you.

 

Have you read the thread on histamine issues? Remeron is known to have antihistamine effects, so for some of us, that's 1 piece of the puzzle. For me, it's been a very significant part.

 

One of the mods might have thoughts on the reinstatement. I know it can take some time for things to settle afterwards.

 

Hang in there...try some meditation or qi gong to help things along. I know it's hard when you feel so terrible, but doing something to soothe the nervous system really matters...

[tgirl]

I have my thyroid checked just 2 weeks ago and everything came back fine.

I don't know!

[Hopefull]

Hi Tgirl,

Just checking in to see how you are doing.

 

Have you had your hormones tested? For menopause etc.

Just a a thought.

It is hard to know why these drugs do this to us.

It will get better.

It has to.

These drugs can cause OCD or make OCD worse if you already have it.

But the OCD can also dissappear once you recover, since you did not have it, prior to meds. Keep that in mind.