Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

[Colonial]

3 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I’m talking about symptoms, not thoughts. It’s the symptoms that are crippling me.

 

Your believing Your thoughts that are telling You the symptoms are crippling You.

It may be an issue of language, but "crippling" here in the USA implies disastrous loss of function.

But Your still working full time.

It sounds more like Catastrophic thinking.

 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

 

And I stated this:

 

 

There are thoughts that you think when you are suffering pain or anything else which is uncomfortable.  We might not have any control over the suffering but we do have some control over what we think when we are suffering.  It won't make the suffering stop but it can help you to get through it.

It's now 6am, and I haven't slept a wink all night. All I did was close my eyes and hope to sleep. Can you explain how thought patterns contributed to this?  I know about CBT, distraction techniques etc. I've had 6/8 sessions with a therapist to try and implement some of these. Despite best endeavours, I've had unbearable restlessness and agitation type sensations in the last few days. Did you see that I'd asked for views specifically on this.

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

 

Your believing Your thoughts that are telling You the symptoms are crippling You.

It may be an issue of language, but "crippling" here in the USA implies disastrous loss of function.

But Your still working full time.

It sounds more like Catastrophic thinking.

 

I've been getting about 4 hours sleep a night for last few months of CT. I got zero last night. There is a reason for the worsening insomnia-the intensifying mental sensations and agitation symptoms. I won't be working much longer. I can't function, understand, communicate effectively. How could anyone with no sleep. 

[Colonial]

3 minutes ago, Snorky said:

. I won't be working much longer. I can't function, understand, communicate effectively. How could anyone with no sleep

 

I suggested long ago that attempting to work full time at this stage was likely counter productive to healing, since it was probably too much external stimuli bombarding your central nervous system and that a longer temporary disability may have been prudent.  You simply can't heal when your acting like your not sick.  

[Colonial]

26 minutes ago, Snorky said:

It's now 6am, and I haven't slept a wink all night. All I did was close my eyes and hope to sleep. Can you explain how thought patterns contributed to this?

 

Despite that this has been answered probably a dozen times in various ways, the fact that your back online typing here complaining about it again continues to re enforce the negative thinking "loop" that keeps you locked in this vicious circle.  You were just given a host of links to entertain but instead your back complaining about the same things over and over.  At what point are you going to realize that isn't going to change anything?  The answers are going to be the same no matter how many times we ask them.

 

[Snorky]

12 minutes ago, Colonial said:

 

Despite that this has been answered probably a dozen times in various ways, the fact that your back online typing here complaining about it again continues to re enforce the negative thinking "loop" that keeps you locked in this vicious circle.  You were just given a host of links to entertain but instead your back complaining about the same things over and over.  At what point are you going to realize that isn't going to change anything?  The answers are going to be the same no matter how many times we ask them.

 

The reason I'm back is I can't sleep. Perhaps I just need to acknowledge that no sleep is part of the new norm for me and not dwell on that too much?

[Colonial]

17 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Perhaps I just need to acknowledge that no sleep is part of the new norm for me and not dwell on that too much?

 

Perhaps read through the links provided, and not catastrophize that one sleepless night is the "new norm" when we just discussed it's to be expected after an uptick in stressful events. That's part of what I meant by taking every thought captive and not just assuming your thoughts are the truth.

There's really nothing else anyone here can do for you.

 

[Snorky]

We all know our own bodies. I recognise a very obvious increase in agitation/restlessness, which has affected sleep. I've been up all night, with no sleep or rest. I'll see what happens tonight and hope that it is a one off. God knows what's really happening.

[ChessieCat]

Many people do not know how to self soothe.

 

Emergency or Soothe Kit - First Aid Kit for Distress:  https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/emergency.htm

 

Do an internet search for "how to self soothe" and see what you can find that might help.

[Snorky]

Did you see my earlier response re agitation and restlessness contributing to insomnia? For whatever reason, I'm in the middle of a massive wave with these as main symptoms. There is also some evidence that serotonin/dopamine imbalance could be basis for this.  Whether it is that or just adrenaline overload,  I think a more significant response is needed than these soothing techniques. 

[mstimc]

40 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Did you see my earlier response re agitation and restlessness contributing to insomnia? For whatever reason, I'm in the middle of a massive wave with these as main symptoms. There is also some evidence that serotonin/dopamine imbalance could be basis for this.  Whether it is that or just adrenaline overload,  I think a more significant response is needed than these soothing techniques. 

What do you think your options are?  

[Snorky]

12 minutes ago, mstimc said:

What do you think your options are?  

Reinstate ven and keep fingers crossed.

Ride the wave and keep fingers crossed.

 

You do take my point about hormonal link though?

[mstimc]

I'm not in the position to comment on an hormonal link because I'm not a doctor.  You've mentioned many possible causes of your symptoms.  

[Snorky]

24 minutes ago, mstimc said:

I'm not in the position to comment on an hormonal link because I'm not a doctor.  You've mentioned many possible causes of your symptoms.  

t’s a bit like playing Russian Roulette isn’t it? 

[Snorky]

Watershed moment to be up all night. You’ll see I had plenty of scope to post during early hours.. Worrying thing wasn’t just the insomnia, more the reasons behind it. You’d think I’d be exhausted, but not the case. Continuation of shakes, agitation, and mental tightness only.

[Snorky]

When most folk go to bed and close their eyes after a long day, the intention is to slow down and nod off, in my case, this acts acts as a stimulus, and starts the head sensations.  (The reverse of keeping the light to a minimum) After about 30 seconds, you have to open eyes. Bizarrely, I eventually found propping myself up with pillow eased a tiny bit. It’s almost like laying flat in bed is ideal for the sensations to kick in 

[Rozon1]

Snorky I’ve found that people don’t really realize what we’re going through mate. Or maybe they do but somehow “powered through it”? Which of course I doubt. Coping techniques don’t work when our body simply is in this state. Looking for answers here isn’t going to help to be completely honest.  I’m in the same situation you are. I’m having trouble sleeping. Wide awake at all times. Restlessness. It’s so bizarre. You sound just like me. When I read the last few pages I feel like I’m reading about myself. So wild. You mention you have shakes? Like uncontrollable shakes? Tell me more.

 

also, do you feel wide awake at all times? Even if you only get little sleep? That’s how I am. I’m constantly stimulated for some reason. It’s frustrating 

 

I honestly think you’re going through venlafaxine withdrawls, personally. I think adding the Amitriptyline in the mix didn’t help anything at all. reinstating sounds so tempting to be completely honest. I can’t quit thinking about it. I just want rest. 5 months out here. 

[Snorky]

28 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

Snorky I’ve found that people don’t really realize what we’re going through mate. Or maybe they do but somehow “powered through it”? Which of course I doubt. Coping techniques don’t work when our body simply is in this state. Looking for answers here isn’t going to help to be completely honest.  I’m in the same situation you are. I’m having trouble sleeping. Wide awake at all times. Restlessness. It’s so bizarre. You sound just like me. When I read the last few pages I feel like I’m reading about myself. So wild. You mention you have shakes? Like uncontrollable shakes? Tell me more.

 

also, do you feel wide awake at all times? Even if you only get little sleep? That’s how I am. I’m constantly stimulated for some reason. It’s frustrating 

 

reinstating sounds so tempting to be completely honest. I can’t quit thinking about it. I just want rest. 

Thanks R

 

Haven’t seen your thread for a while. Think you’re CT too? 

 

I recall you were one of the few posters experiencing head sensations too. People are being v helpful, but I guess some symptoms just become too established and significant to respond to the managing techniques. Tremors- fairly constant sideways movement. I’m pretty sure there was s some link between Amitriptyline withdrawal and “Parkinsonism “. 

 

Yep, irrespective of sleep, I never seem to be tired. Last night was a first in going the whole night with none.

 

Reinstatement- have had the meds for about a month. Deciding whether to stick or bust is probably also causing anxiety for me. Won’t be straightforward, as not taken them since Sept18.

 

Good luck and God bless you.

[Snorky]

Just now, Snorky said:

Thanks R

 

Haven’t seen your thread for a while. Think you’re CT too? 

 

I recall you were one of the few posters experiencing head sensations too. People are being v helpful, but I guess some symptoms just become too established and significant to respond to the managing techniques. Tremors- fairly constant sideways movement. I’m pretty sure there was s some link between Amitriptyline withdrawal and “Parkinsonism “. 

 

Yep, irrespective of sleep, I never seem to be tired. Last night was a first in going the whole night with none.

 

Reinstatement- have had the meds for about a month. Deciding whether to stick or bust is probably also causing anxiety for me. Won’t be straightforward, as not taken them since Sept18.

 

Good luck and God bless you.

Missed this. If someone managed to “power through this”, I’d give a million bucks to drink from their tap water.

[Rozon1]

Hey @Snorky maybe we just power through and see where it takes us? It’s so tempting to go back. I dont have shakes but like you said, I think that might be in part due to the Amitriptyline. 
 

you say you never feel tired? Do you yawn? I don’t really yawn. Doesn’t feel real when I do, atleast. Like I never feel like I can just go to bed. I can go all night without sleeping and feel normal the next day. When I do get sleep, I get a good amount but it’s like my brain just fell asleep and I don’t know how. I wasn’t tired. 

[Hanna72]

Hi @Snorky

That’s just the worst not getting sleep, I can relate to that one when I ct my Paxil many times before. 
You have come such along way being off the meds. That’s a huge accomplishment. Don’t forget that. 
This recovery is one of the hardest thing I have done, so I get it. 
I truly hope and pray that you will come out of this wave soon.

My best wishes to you 🙏

[Snorky]

33 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

Hey @Snorky maybe we just power through and see where it takes us? It’s so tempting to go back. I dont have shakes but like you said, I think that might be in part due to the Amitriptyline. 
 

you say you never feel tired? Do you yawn? I don’t really yawn. Doesn’t feel real when I do, atleast. Like I never feel like I can just go to bed. I can go all night without sleeping and feel normal the next day. When I do get sleep, I get a good amount but it’s like my brain just fell asleep and I don’t know how. I wasn’t tired. 

You may be right about this battle being against ven, not amitriptyline. Do yawn, but not v much. 

[Rozon1]

@Snorky I don’t say this often but your symptoms other than the tremors mimic mine so well that I almost know it’s from ven. I have no doubt that’s the issue. Did they start shortly after ven CT? Just curious. 

[Snorky]

29 minutes ago, Hanna72 said:

Hi @Snorky

That’s just the worst not getting sleep, I can relate to that one when I ct my Paxil many times before. 
You have come such along way being off the meds. That’s a huge accomplishment. Don’t forget that. 
This recovery is one of the hardest thing I have done, so I get it. 
I truly hope and pray that you will come out of this wave soon.

My best wishes to you 🙏

Hi

 

Thanks for your interest. Believe it or not, the insomnia isn’t the worst aspect. It’s the  root cause of the insomnia, the 24/7 head pins and needles thing, recent agitation and restlessness etc. I feel already that last night will somehow be a new norm. How on earth can you go two nights with no sleep, rest. I he latter is also important, as there would be some salvation if you could at least close your eyes and get some rest l, if not actual sleep.

 

God bless you.

[Snorky]

4 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

@Snorky I don’t say this often but your symptoms other than the tremors mimic mine so well that I almost know it’s from ven. I have no doubt that’s the issue. Did they start shortly after ven CT? Just curious. 

Went from Ven to amitriptyline in Oct 18. Reduced ven from 150 to 75 and introduced amitriptyline at 25. Then reduced ven to 37.5, before stopping and increasing amitriptyline to 100mg eventually. This all agreed with Doc. So effectively was ven cross taper to amitriptyline b4 CT from that one year later. I had loads of issues with amitriptyline, lots of adverse effects. Never really addressed my pain and neuro type symptoms, which is ironic as that’s why it’s often prescribed.

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Snorky said:

I feel already that last night will somehow be a new norm.

 

This is an excellent example of catastrophic thinking.

 

It's a feeling, not a fact.

[mstimc]

7 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

This is an excellent example of catastrophic thinking.

 

It's a feeling, not a fact.

I 100% agree Chessie.  As someone who had to overcome the same kind of catastrophic thought patterns, I understand the trap it creates.  Until  I accepted "It's a feeling, not a fact" I made zero progress on recovery, both of my mental and physical symptoms.

[Snorky]

It might have been a feeling, but almost spot on. I had a few beers last night, and that saw me through until 3am. Once you wake, you get horrible restlessness for hours, knowing you're not getting back to sleep. 

[Erell]

2 hours ago, Snorky said:

I had a few beers last night

 Hello Snorky, 

 

how often do you have drinks?

 

we recommend strongly to avoid alcohol : alcohol can (and often does) trigger waves, destabilising your CNS.

[Snorky]

10 minutes ago, Erell said:

 Hello Snorky, 

 

how often do you have drinks?

 

we recommend strongly to avoid alcohol : alcohol can (and often does) trigger waves, destabilising your CNS.

Hi E

 

Moderate. The problem is that the sleep deprivation/insomnia episodes are worse when no alcohol involved. I agree not ideal, but the odd beer, glass of vino does seem to soften the symptoms a bit. (I know just delaying inevitable but at least seems to provide a few hours sleep)

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:56 AM, Snorky said:

Reinstate ven and keep fingers crossed.

Ride the wave and keep fingers crossed.

 

Let's say you reinstated and got some relief.  What would you do to prepare to taper again? 

[Snorky]

13 minutes ago, mstimc said:

 

Let's say you reinstated and got some relief.  What would you do to prepare to taper again? 

Anything, I would be happy to be guided by folk on here. (Reality though is that they would want to increase to previous dose of 150mg. Much longer to come off from that)

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:56 AM, Snorky said:

 

 

What guidance haven't you received?  Eventually you're going to have to make a choice and then commit to recovery.

[Snorky]

You asked me what I would to plan taper in future.

 

I don’t doubt the guidance, but overwhelmed with symptoms that “appeared to be” of the more difficult to shift type. I made it difficult by staying on the meds for so long, then abrupt taper. Not s good start. 

 

Most recently, have had episodes of insomnia and then restlessness that I can’t cope with. I can see the link- anxiety causing the tremors,  cortisol spike, pins and needles. This then leading to insomnia, and then restlessness, as I have about four hours to burn before getting up. 

I know only too well these are feelings, but now worried that, with insomnia being difficult to shift, I’ll be faced with the restlessness feeling most nights. 

 

Lastly, the depression. These episodes have got more frequent and palpable. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, I can plan and then manage taper to provide soft, rather than crash landing.

[Colonial]

10 hours ago, Snorky said:

I had a few beers last night, and that saw me through until 3am.

 

Well there you go.  That will certainly make your waves worse and delay overall healing for quite a period of time.

Sure, any "drug" might temporarily make You feel better, but it just becomes a vicious cycle if your accidentally shooting Yourself in the foot with any intermittent drug use, legal or illegal. 

[Snorky]

24 minutes ago, Colonial said:

 

Well there you go.  That will certainly make your waves worse and delay overall healing for quite a period of time.

Sure, any "drug" might temporarily make You feel better, but it just becomes a vicious cycle if your accidentally shooting Yourself in the foot with any intermittent drug use, legal or illegal. 

Can you honestly say that two small bottles of beer or a glass of wine is guaranteed to increase episodes of insomnia, a la my situation. I’ve been getting these episodes, whether imbibing or not?