Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

[Snorky]

9 minutes ago, mstimc said:

 

Thanks, Snorky.  It can be helpful to name your dragon, as they say.  But it can go too far during WD.  The goal is to be able to say "Yes, this a symptom of WD and I need to deal with it as such."  But self-diagnosis can be a double-edged sword.   You don't want to get so wrapped up in defining each symptom you lose sight of the goal of reducing and eventually eliminating them.  You've defined them, now its time to move on and use our support and coping tools to deal with them.

Thanks M

 

I get all that. Defining/describing these symptoms is hard to avoid, when they are so all consuming. Somehow, the agitated mental state and heightened CNS following CT has not just generated the symptoms, it’s rendered me helpless in dealing with them.

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, Snorky said:

Thanks M

 

I get all that. Defining/describing these symptoms is hard to avoid, when they are so all consuming. Somehow, the agitated mental state and heightened CNS following CT has not just generated the symptoms, it’s rendered me helpless in dealing with them.

31 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Corrected in last line of post. 

No diagnosis, but.. Grateful for any further views on this. Thanks.

 

Thanks, Snorky.  It can be helpful to name your dragon, as they say.  But it can go too far during WD.  The goal is to be able to say "Yes, this a symptom of WD and I need to deal with it as such."  But self-diagnosis can be a double-edged sword.   You don't want to get so wrapped up in defining each symptom you lose sight of the goal of reducing and eventually eliminating them.  You've defined them, now its time to move on and use our support and coping tools to deal with them.

1 minute ago, Snorky said:

Thanks M

 

I get all that. Defining/describing these symptoms is hard to avoid, when they are so all consuming. Somehow, the agitated mental state and heightened CNS following CT has not just generated the symptoms, it’s rendered me helpless in dealing with them.

 

That's just it--you aren't helpless.   Ask yourself where these symptoms are coming from.  You're not infected with a virus and you didn't break anything.  As I mentioned before, its your destabilized nervous system and anxiety.  What your mind can create, your mind can control.  Don't fight individual symptoms.  Work on managing the thoughts that give them their power.   There are many CBT-related tools that have been shared here.  Jump on them and find the ones that work for you!

[mstimc]

The motto and main principle of Paxilprogress.org was "Freedom is in you.  You are enough.  You are your solution."  That is the key to recovery and future happiness.  We can give you support, advice and guidance.  You can adopt and practice all sorts of CBT and other coping tools.  You can see a therapist for years.  You can even go back on meds.  But unless and until you accept that the power that created your hell is also the power that can overcome it, nothing will work.  It takes time, determination and struggling to find the right path, but you can do it.  

Edited March 13, 2020 by mstimc

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

The motto and main principle of Paxilprogress.org was "Freedom is in you.  You are enough.  You are your solution."  That is the key to recovery and future happiness.  We can give you support, advice and guidance.  You can adopt and practice all sorts of CBT and other coping tools.  You can see a therapist for years.  You can even go back on meds.  But unless and until you accept that the power that created your hell is also the power that can overcome it, nothing will work.  It takes time, determination and struggling to find the right path, but you can do it.  

Thanks again M

 

I’m going to try, but not sure I can fight the good fight much longer.

 

God bless.

[Rozon1]

hey, @Snorky do you feel as i reinstatement wasn't beneifical in your case? 

[Snorky]

Truth is I don't really know. I tried for only a few weeks, but felt there was ongoing adverse effects. I was advised by mod on here to stop at that point. I am where I am now. Six months from last amitriptyline and feeling like hell. Barely able to work or function with these symptoms. Last night was so typical. I wake up about 4 with awful shooting pins and needles in head and legs. I kept saying to myself I can cope with these, they're WD etc. However, I couldn't tolerate them so crying in anguish, disturbing husband for about two hours. Some time later, I found the head pain had eased, but couldn't then sleep due to anxiety about return of symptoms and stomach churning etc. 

 

I hope your condition is improving.

 

God bless.

[mstimc]

1 hour ago, Snorky said:

 Some time later, I found the head pain had eased, but couldn't then sleep due to anxiety about return of symptoms and stomach churning etc. 

Good Saturday Morning!

 

This is the kind of opportunity you shouldn't pass up.  Instead of giving in to the anxious thoughts about something that might return,  concentrate on being thankful for relief of the head pain.   This is what I mean by changing your perspective.

[Snorky]

45 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Good Saturday Morning!

 

This is the kind of opportunity you shouldn't pass up.  Instead of giving in to the anxious thoughts about something that might return,  concentrate on being thankful for relief of the head pain.   This is what I mean by changing your perspective.

Bom dia.

 

The problem is, you get so exhausted by the initial symptoms, it’s difficult to think clearly in that moment.

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

14 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Bom dia.

 

The problem is, you get so exhausted by the initial symptoms, it’s difficult to think clearly in that moment.

 

Thanks

The you really need to ask yourself where you intend to begin your recovery.   You're in what I've seen called "brain lock".  You're in a constant cycle of symptoms, anxiety about symptoms, and negative thinking.  You need to break that cycle, which means you need to put positive coping tools first and negative thoughts second.  How do you intend to do that?

[Snorky]

2 minutes ago, mstimc said:

The you really need to ask yourself where you intend to begin your recovery.   You're in what I've seen called "brain lock".  You're in a constant cycle of symptoms, anxiety about symptoms, and negative thinking.  You need to break that cycle, which means you need to put positive coping tools first and negative thoughts second.  How do you intend to do that?

Thought I’d already got the show on the road by starting 121 therapy, reinforcing positive behaviours, meditation, mindfulness, breathing and relaxation exercises, trips with family etc etc.  Just not signs of green shots of improvement.

[mstimc]

But you haven't taken the most important step, which is changing your behaviors.  You're treating all of these things as external actions--things that should be happening to you.  The key is internalizing these things so they're being done by you. You need to practice and implement coping tools so when the anxious thoughts come you habitually turn to them instead heading down that spiral again.

[Snorky]

16 minutes ago, mstimc said:

But you haven't taken the most important step, which is changing your behaviors.  You're treating all of these things as external actions--things that should be happening to you.  The key is internalizing these things so they're being done by you. You need to practice and implement coping tools so when the anxious thoughts come you habitually turn to them instead heading down that spiral again.

l try to take on board what you say. It’s evident In doing something v wrong, as I seem to be deteriorating rapidly. I have another 121 therapy session scheduled for Wed. I’ll let you know what he says if I get that far. Obrigado.

[mstimc]

Its not that you're doing it "wrong".  You're just not doing it enough.  You're accessing the right tools, you're just not implementing them to help you. 

[Snorky]

23 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Its not that you're doing it "wrong".  You're just not doing it enough.  You're accessing the right tools, you're just not implementing them to help you. 

Ok. The other thing is that I think there may be something else at play re the nerve  sensations emanating 24/7 from both legs. This is not about catastrophic thinking, some nasty neurological condition etc. No, it’s just that when I touch my calf, ankle, there is s v palpable numbness and pins and needles sensation that radiates around that whole area. Have no idea how that plays into anxiety/heightened CNS? 

[Colonial]

1 hour ago, Snorky said:

 

The problem is, you get so exhausted by the initial symptoms, it’s difficult to think clearly in that moment.

 

14 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Its not that you're doing it "wrong".  You're just not doing it enough.  You're accessing the right tools, you're just not implementing them to help you. 

 

Your probably both right to some extent!  The problem with the brain fog and concentration issues is You can teach Yourself one thing but in an episode when the critical thinking skills are so compromised its an be difficult to implement them to the degree we need to.  But I also think mstimc is on to something, because, and it very well just be Your personality type, but the way you write ABOUT yourself, its almost like, your recording whats happening to someone else in a clinical fashion.  Like an independent recorder of facts from outside your own body.  Are You an "Extreme Introvert" on the Personality chart?  Because I do see what mstimc is saying in how You haven't quite made the jump to figuring out how to implement things in a manner that "internalizes" them to you.  Like you can watch a video or go to a class to learn to back a cake, but if You just watch, you havent really learned everything all the details you really need to know until you actually do it for yourself.

 

I do think your trying, I just think your scientific minded, in how your process "facts", and that's somehow keeping you from implementing certain changes.  I'm just not completely sure how to advise you bridge that gap.  

[mstimc]

Snorky, if you've learned nothing else from this site, it should be that anxiety is going to manifest in almost innumerable ways.  Numbness and tingling has been mentioned by many members. Inventorying and re-inventorying your symptoms isn't getting you any closer to recovery.

[Colonial]

16 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Ok. The other thing is that I think there may be something else at play re the nerve  sensations emanating 24/7 from both legs. This is not about catastrophic thinking, some nasty neurological condition etc. No, it’s just that when I touch my calf, ankle, there is s v palpable numbness and pins and needles sensation that radiates around that whole area. Have no idea how that plays into anxiety/heightened CNS? 

See, that whole post, again, is very scientific, which is great in one way, a lot of members have trouble even understanding what their really experiencing.  And I dont think its catastrophic to catalog your symptoms per se.  But the good news is that is all part of the CNS being destabilized, so thers not something to be concerned about.

 

Unfortunately for You I think You might accidentally be expecting more out of this website than we can give.  We aren't doctors who can clinically diagnose each and every symptom, nor can the mods or the rest of us allow ourselves to get bogged down in them, specifically because their are thousands of them that can pop up at any time and their are thousands of members.  And that's just not what this site is for.  This is peer counseling and support, not a university site of clinical research. 

 

If wish we DID HAVE THAT! I really wish we had someone who was capable of answering your "types" of very precise scientific questions.  But we aren't, and simply dont have the time, to disect how touching one part of the body causes a sensation in a different area and how that all related scientifically to how the CNS was functioning at any given moment at any given time.  I'm truly sorry, we just aren't that sort of clinical website.  But if you continue to have questions about the techniques blogs on the implementation of coping skills I hope we might have someone available at any given time to help you within a day or so.  But You've got alot of info already!  You just need to figure out how to get it past your head into making it work FOR you.

 

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, Colonial said:

See, that whole post, again, is very scientific, which is great in one way, a lot of members have trouble even understanding what their really experiencing.  And I dont think its catastrophic to catalog your symptoms per se.  But the good news is that is all part of the CNS being destabilized, so thers not something to be concerned about.

 

Unfortunately for You I think You might accidentally be expecting more out of this website than we can give.  We aren't doctors who can clinically diagnose each and every symptom, nor can the mods or the rest of us allow ourselves to get bogged down in them, specifically because their are thousands of them that can pop up at any time and their are thousands of members.  And that's just not what this site is for.  This is peer counseling and support, not a university site of clinical research. 

 

If wish we DID HAVE THAT! I really wish we had someone who was capable of answering your "types" of very precise scientific questions.  But we aren't, and simply dont have the time, to disect how touching one part of the body causes a sensation in a different area and how that all related scientifically to how the CNS was functioning at any given moment at any given time.  I'm truly sorry, we just aren't that sort of clinical website.  But if you continue to have questions about the techniques blogs on the implementation of coping skills I hope we might have someone available at any given time to help you within a day or so.  But You've got alot of info already!  You just need to figure out how to get it past your head into making it work FOR you.

 

Well said, Colonial!

 

When I was in WD, I think I nearly drove my doctor crazy seeing him about everything I was feeling.  Snorky, I'm not denying the reality of your feelings, but you need to accept the source is indeed your destabilized nervous system and habitual thinking.  That alone will be a huge step forward.

[Snorky]

9 minutes ago, Colonial said:

See, that whole post, again, is very scientific, which is great in one way, a lot of members have trouble even understanding what their really experiencing.  And I dont think its catastrophic to catalog your symptoms per se.  But the good news is that is all part of the CNS being destabilized, so thers not something to be concerned about.

 

Unfortunately for You I think You might accidentally be expecting more out of this website than we can give.  We aren't doctors who can clinically diagnose each and every symptom, nor can the mods or the rest of us allow ourselves to get bogged down in them, specifically because their are thousands of them that can pop up at any time and their are thousands of members.  And that's just not what this site is for.  This is peer counseling and support, not a university site of clinical research. 

 

If wish we DID HAVE THAT! I really wish we had someone who was capable of answering your "types" of very precise scientific questions.  But we aren't, and simply dont have the time, to disect how touching one part of the body causes a sensation in a different area and how that all related scientifically to how the CNS was functioning at any given moment at any given time.  I'm truly sorry, we just aren't that sort of clinical website.  But if you continue to have questions about the techniques blogs on the implementation of coping skills I hope we might have someone available at any given time to help you within a day or so.  But You've got alot of info already!  You just need to figure out how to get it past your head into making it work FOR you.

 

Thanks C.

 

Addressing this and your earlier post.

 

I’m no idea where I am

on a scale of 1-10, introvert/extrovert etc. Not sure how my description would change, whether I was describing myself or a third party. I just try to be clear, so folk can understand. I’m no scientist so not sure how that comes out.

 

I would really love some practical steps on how to implement the “changes” in my case.

 

One thing I’m going to do from today is simplify the way I talk about my symptoms. Ie depression (obvious) and anxiety (shakes, mental tension and nerve pains) I hope that will help to reduce my long inventory.

 

God bless you.

[Snorky]

9 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Well said, Colonial!

 

When I was in WD, I think I nearly drove my doctor crazy seeing him about everything I was feeling.  Snorky, I'm not denying the reality of your feelings, but you need to accept the source is indeed your destabilized nervous system and habitual thinking.  That alone will be a huge step forward.

Thanks M

 

Forgot to acknowledge this. Accept destabilised nervous system, but have to deal with habitual thinking.

[mstimc]

5 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks M

 

Forgot to acknowledge this. Accept destabilised nervous system, but have to deal with habitual thinking.

Yep--that's the ticket! 🙂

[Colonial]

6 hours ago, Snorky said:

One thing I’m going to do from today is simplify the way I talk about my symptoms. Ie depression (obvious) and anxiety (shakes, mental tension and nerve pains

That might lower the amount of time you think about them thus lowering the internal stress that makes them stronger with a "thought-symptom" loop.

 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

Yep--that's the ticket! 🙂

Question is how.

[mstimc]

1 hour ago, Snorky said:

Question is how.

Use the advice you've been given.  You have a toolbox; pick up what you need and put it to work!  

Let's say you ask me for directions to drive from A to B.  I tell you go up Highway 5 for three miles, turn left on Highway 10, then turn left on Harbor Bl.  You have a choice.  You can follow the directions and get where you're going fast, or you can drive around aimlessly until you stumble across your discretion.  

 

We can give you directions--advice, coping tools, etc.  Only you can choose to follow them.  If you don't, you'll find yourself in the same place you are now.

Edited March 14, 2020 by mstimc

[Snorky]

Going to use b st endeavours to take control of and own the positive thinking and coping strategies. Today:

 

• I've got ADWD, my Symantec common and they'll get easier
• I need to tolerate the anxiety that comes from losing the obsessive thoughts (Can't recall where that came from)

 

[mstimc]

31 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Going to use b st endeavours to take control of and own the positive thinking and coping strategies. Today:

 

• I've got ADWD, my Symantec common and they'll get easier
• I need to tolerate the anxiety that comes from losing the obsessive thoughts (Can't recall where that came from)

 

Good Morning, Snorky

 

That's a great approach and its wonderful to see you commit to  using positive thinking!  🤩

 

But dude, check your spelling--LOL!  

    b st endeavours ?

    my Symantec common ?

[Snorky]

3 hours ago, mstimc said:

Good Morning, Snorky

 

That's a great approach and its wonderful to see you commit to  using positive thinking!  🤩

 

But dude, check your spelling--LOL!  

    b st endeavours ?

    my Symantec common ?

Sorry, meant my symptoms are common. Also use best endeavours.

[mstimc]

@Snorky and @Rozon1  I know you guys are in difficult places right now, and considering reinstating.  That's a decision only you can make and I hope it works.  But look at the content of both of your threads.  I'd guess 80% to 90% of your posts are about reinstating and seeking reassurance about your symptoms.  What I'm not seeing is asking for help with recovery, like the methods to use to overcome ruminations and habitual negative thinking.  I know I keep saying it, but without a fundamental change in your expectations and the way you're approaching recovery, reinstating will at best be a temporary salve.  You need to adopt a more proactive and positive approach that will control to you instead of your symptoms and thoughts.

[Snorky]

34 minutes ago, mstimc said:

@Snorky and @Rozon1  I know you guys are in difficult places right now, and considering reinstating.  That's a decision only you can make and I hope it works.  But look at the content of both of your threads.  I'd guess 80% to 90% of your posts are about reinstating and seeking reassurance about your symptoms.  What I'm not seeing is asking for help with recovery, like the methods to use to overcome ruminations and habitual negative thinking.  I know I keep saying it, but without a fundamental change in your expectations and the way you're approaching recovery, reinstating will at best be a temporary salve.  You need to adopt a more proactive and positive approach that will control to you instead of your symptoms and thoughts.

Hi M 

 

Good to speak to you again. I haven’t checked today, but thought bast majority of posts (until about a month ago) were about managing my CT symptoms.  You know the score with me. Coping with about four  v resistant symptoms that seem to be deteriorating. “Managing the thoughts that give them the power” is proving v difficult for me. For some reason, work, which was once my salvation is proving difficult on all fronts. That said, evidence at church yesterday, where I broke down into quivering nervous wreck, tells me it’s not any different outside stresses of work.

 

Thank you.

[mstimc]

Good Morning, Snorky

 

Hope you're doing well under the

17 hours ago, Snorky said:

Hi M 

 

Good to speak to you again. I haven’t checked today, but thought bast majority of posts (until about a month ago) were about managing my CT symptoms.  You know the score with me. Coping with about four  v resistant symptoms that seem to be deteriorating. “Managing the thoughts that give them the power” is proving v difficult for me. For some reason, work, which was once my salvation is proving difficult on all fronts. That said, evidence at church yesterday, where I broke down into quivering nervous wreck, tells me it’s not any different outside stresses of work.

 

Thank you.

 

Good Morning, Snorky.  Hope you're doing well under the circumstances.  Please take a look at the last few posts on Rozon's thread, especially those from Colonial and Altostrata.  You and he (?) are in verry similar circumstances and it may be helpful to gain some perspective. 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

Good Morning, Snorky

 

Hope you're doing well under the

 

Good Morning, Snorky.  Hope you're doing well under the circumstances.  Please take a look at the last few posts on Rozon's thread, especially those from Colonial and Altostrata.  You and he (?) are in verry similar circumstances and it may be helpful to gain some perspective. 

Hi again M

 

Desperately trying to stay positive and keep perspective. I can certainly relate to R’s concerns about being overwhelmed with symptoms (albeit anxiety/WD related) to such an extent that it’s hard to think about, let alone carry out coping techniques.

 

Thanks

 

[mstimc]

1 hour ago, Snorky said:

Hi again M

 

Desperately trying to stay positive and keep perspective. I can certainly relate to R’s concerns about being overwhelmed with symptoms (albeit anxiety/WD related) to such an extent that it’s hard to think about, let alone carry out coping techniques.

 

Thanks

 

Snorky, please reread the posts on Rozons' thread and try to relate them to your situation.  As Alto and Colonial (and I) have said, you will make no progress until you decide to get in front of your symptoms.  Constantly focusing on symptoms instead of its root cause will get you nowhere.  Managing your anxiety proactively will reduce your symptoms.

Edited March 17, 2020 by mstimc

[Snorky]

40 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Snorky, please reread the posts on Rozons' thread and try to relate them to your situation.  As Alto and Colonial (and I) have said, you will make no progress until you decide to get in front of your symptoms.  Constantly focusing on symptoms instead of its root cause will get you nowhere.  Managing your anxiety proactively will reduce your symptoms.

Been trying for months, without success. Incidentally, C (in separate pm exchange ) suggested work and efforts to find distraction/normality may well be too much for me. (Need to consider taking 3-4 months away from work, isolate myself etc)

 

Up until this point, I’ve been mainly advised that work and other engaging strategies were positive.

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

3 hours ago, Snorky said:

Been trying for months, without success. Incidentally, C (in separate pm exchange ) suggested work and efforts to find distraction/normality may well be too much for me. (Need to consider taking 3-4 months away from work, isolate myself etc)

 

Up until this point, I’ve been mainly advised that work and other engaging strategies were positive.

 

Thanks

 

I think you've dug yourself your own hole on the work issue.  You've posted several times you're having trouble at work, so its only natural someone would suggest you step away.  This is the danger of focusing on symptoms and a negative approach to WD.  If we suggest that work and other engaging strategies would help, but you're saying you're miserable at work, what can we say?  If we suggest coping strategies but you insist that your symptoms are so uniquely bad that you can't use them, how much longer do you think any of us can continue making suggestions for you to improve?  

 

A while ago, I asked if you really wanted to recover, and you said yes.  How?  How do you intend to recover in the face of a wholesale negative approach to recovery?

 

You can recover but you need to give yourself permission to let go of the incessant hunt for symptoms and of convincing yourself nothing will help.  So many of us here want to support you, but you need to step into your own recovery.

Edited March 17, 2020 by mstimc

[Snorky]

40 minutes ago, mstimc said:

 

I think you've dug yourself your own hole on the work issue.  You've posted several times you're having trouble at work, so its only natural someone would suggest you step away.  This is the danger of focusing on symptoms and a negative approach to WD.  If we suggest that work and other engaging strategies would help, but you're saying you're miserable at work, what can we say?  If we suggest coping strategies but you insist that your symptoms are so uniquely bad that you can't use them, how much longer do you think any of us can continue making suggestions for you to improve?  

 

A while ago, I asked if you really wanted to recover, and you said yes.  How?  How do you intend to recover in the face of a wholesale negative approach to recovery?

 

You can recover but you need to give yourself permission to let go of the incessant hunt for symptoms and of convincing yourself nothing will help.  So many of us here want to support you, but you need to step into your own recovery.

Hi

 

Thankfully, my incessant search has only yielded four symptoms, big ones but only four. 

 

It’s also interesting in that I don’t think you ever independently advised that work and coping strategies would likely be too much for me? You certainly pushed me to fight the good fight, not give into symptoms etc. However, I don’t recall you expressing that sentiment.

 

Obrigado.

[Snorky]

Just now, Snorky said:

Hi

 

Thankfully, my incessant search has only yielded four symptoms, big ones but only four. 

 

It’s also interesting in that I don’t think you ever independently advised that work and coping strategies would likely be too much for me? You certainly pushed me to fight the good fight, not give into symptoms etc. However, I don’t recall you expressing that sentiment.

 

Obrigado.

Also never said miserable at work. Said struggling to cope with understanding/communication, but no surprises there as only getting about three hours sleep every night. The work and colleagues make it anything but miserable.