Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

[Snorky]

6 hours ago, mstimc said:

You're a fellow human being on the same path we're on.  You deserve some support.

Thanks again M,

 

Fast forward 24 hours. Usual crap sleep. (Till 3.30. Mental tension and nerve pain in lower legs)

 

Woke up with weird depression feeling. Then went to work😡Ended up with horrendous neuro type symptoms. Constant head tremors, continuation of pins and needles in head and legs and loads of cognitive issues/confusion. You’d have to be a masochist to describe this as evidence of progress.

Sorry, pain as opposed to pins and needles.

[Snorky]

2 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks again M,

 

Fast forward 24 hours. Usual crap sleep. (Till 3.30. Mental tension and nerve pain in lower legs)

 

Woke up with weird depression feeling. Then went to work😡Ended up with horrendous neuro type symptoms. Constant head tremors, continuation of pins and needles in head and legs and loads of cognitive issues/confusion. You’d have to be a masochist to describe this as evidence of progress.

Sorry, pain as opposed to pins and needles.

Also massive bout of anger/agitation with husband and son. V worrying and sudden.

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, Snorky said:

Also massive bout of anger/agitation with husband and son. V worrying and sudden.

This is very common with anxiety and WD.  Let it pass and apologize when you're a little calmer.

[Snorky]

16 minutes ago, mstimc said:

This is very common with anxiety and WD.  Let it pass and apologize when you're a little calmer.

Hi M

 

Thanks. Will certainly apologise etc. Funnily enough, this was a regular thing while on amitriptyline. That said, overall, was  nowhere near as bad as now. 

[Altostrata]

Snorky, you have withdrawal syndrome. It may take you some months to recover. You will feel waves and windows. While you cope with this, it's really not necessary to describe this every day.

[Snorky]

3 hours ago, mstimc said:

This is very common with anxiety and WD.  Let it pass and apologize when you're a little calmer.

Hi again M

 

I think what may be less common is the unbearable Parkinsonism now experienced. (Permanent head tremors) Combine that with the anger outbursts and utterly intolerable.

 

[mstimc]

49 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Hi again M

 

I think what may be less common is the unbearable Parkinsonism now experienced. (Permanent head tremors) Combine that with the anger outbursts and utterly intolerable.

 

Snorky,  once again you're falling victim to inventorying and exacerbating your WD symptoms. You've mentioned the Parkinson-like symptoms before.  A few hours ago, it was head tremors and pins and needles.   Constantly ruminating over each symptom is truly doing you no good.  As we discussed yesterday, you need to start focusing your thoughts on positive subjects. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by mstimc

[mstimc]

Maybe this will help visualize what you're doing.  Visualize your anxiety and WD symptoms as a 10-pound ball you're carrying around.  You need to "put" it somewhere.  When you address one issue, like anger, you just pick it up and move it somewhere else, like tremors or twitches.  As long as you concentrate on finding a place for the weight, you will continue to feel it pressing down on you.  The only solution is making the weight smaller.  The only way to do that is to stop adding weight to it by ruminating on your symptoms and feelings.  Lighten your load by shifting your thoughts.

[Snorky]

27 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Maybe this will help visualize what you're doing.  Visualize your anxiety and WD symptoms as a 10-pound ball you're carrying around.  You need to "put" it somewhere.  When you address one issue, like anger, you just pick it up and move it somewhere else, like tremors or twitches.  As long as you concentrate on finding a place for the weight, you will continue to feel it pressing down on you.  The only solution is making the weight smaller.  The only way to do that is to stop adding weight to it by ruminating on your symptoms and feelings.  Lighten your load by shifting your thoughts.

Sorry, I get what you’re saying I really do. Today has just been too much. Frightening anger/agitation episodes, where I was completely out of control. Allied to this v obvious deterioration of head tremors. So much going on. Just exhausting. Completely forgot what we agreed yesterday.

[Snorky]

Hi All

 

I know I’m talking symptoms again, but this important, I returned to work on 40 Dec (sick for six weeks) I’ve “just about managed” to cope. However, last few days have been v difficult- mental strain which prevents normal conversation and engagement with colleagues. Also blocks thoughts, understanding work etc. 

 

Outside of work, my mental tension/pressure has worsened. Was previously affecting sleep, but this is much worse. V worrying as work one of my few effective distractions. 

 

Is this likely to be a wave? V noticeable difference.

 

Thanks. 

30 Dec.

[Colonial]

Sorry, what do you mean by : 40 Dec, and then 30 Dec again at the very end?

[Snorky]

43 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Sorry, what do you mean by : 40 Dec, and then 30 Dec again at the very end?

Hi C

 

Meant to say retuned to work on Dec 30 after six weeks sickness. My head inner tension/tightness has been one of the most debilitating symptoms and mentioned through my topic. For some weeks, it was a dull sensation that contributed to the insomnia and some frustration when thinking/working. For the last week or so the sensation much more sharp. It’s got the physical dimension but now also seems to create havoc when thinking, producing a grinding sensation. It’s not helped by the parallel deterioration in the head tremors I’ve experienced since day 1 of CT.

 

(The head issue may be related to the nerve/pins and needles/numbness sensation in both lower legs. Like the brain is firing signals to the legs but these are somehow misfiring. I’ve asked about this a few times, but always falls on stoney ground)

 

God bless.

[mstimc]

4 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Hi C

 

Meant to say retuned to work on Dec 30 after six weeks sickness. My head inner tension/tightness has been one of the most debilitating symptoms and mentioned through my topic. For some weeks, it was a dull sensation that contributed to the insomnia and some frustration when thinking/working. For the last week or so the sensation much more sharp. It’s got the physical dimension but now also seems to create havoc when thinking, producing a grinding sensation. It’s not helped by the parallel deterioration in the head tremors I’ve experienced since day 1 of CT.

 

(The head issue may be related to the nerve/pins and needles/numbness sensation in both lower legs. Like the brain is firing signals to the legs but these are somehow misfiring. I’ve asked about this a few times, but always falls on stoney ground)

 

God bless.

Hi Snorky

 

Before I retired, I was an analyst/auditor, so have a lot of experience assessing situations objectively.  As an outside observer and considering the type, dosage, and changes in your medications, I would say all of your symptoms are WD/destabilized nervous system, exacerbated by obsessive thinking habits.  Because you expend so much mental energy trying to figure out what's happening to you and why, it makes it worse.  Your work is something you can control to a degree because you have an opportunity to focus outside your mind.  But anxiety and WD are selfish and they don't want to give you even that.  Don't give in; stake your work territory as an anxiety-free zone and give yourself permission to focus at work.  Use that mental energy to focus on coping strategies instead of ruminating on the cause and effect of your symptoms.  I know its hard, but you need to make the effort.

[Snorky]

14 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Hi Snorky

 

Before I retired, I was an analyst/auditor, so have a lot of experience assessing situations objectively.  As an outside observer and considering the type, dosage, and changes in your medications, I would say all of your symptoms are WD/destabilized nervous system, exacerbated by obsessive thinking habits.  Because you expend so much mental energy trying to figure out what's happening to you and why, it makes it worse.  Your work is something you can control to a degree because you have an opportunity to focus outside your mind.  But anxiety and WD are selfish and they don't want to give you even that.  Don't give in; stake your work territory as an anxiety-free zone and give yourself permission to focus at work.  Use that mental energy to focus on coping strategies instead of ruminating on the cause and effect of your symptoms.  I know its hard, but you need to make the effort.

Hi M

 

V empathetic and reassuring as usual. It may be a switch between physical and depressive type symptoms as you suggest. The leg issue is a funny one. In parallel to ADs has back issues for years. Culminated in MRI two years ago. Although no evidence of herniated disc then, there was a lot of stenosis putting pressure on some nerves. Mother of all ironies is that this, along with other fibromyalgia type symptoms resulted in amitriptyline starting😡

 

 

[Snorky]

Feeling is v much like nerves are shredded. Also not sure I can work through the brain like screamed egg feeling. Completely stops you in your tracks and definitely not ruminating.

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

12 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Feeling is v much like nerves are shredded. Also not sure I can work through the brain like screamed egg feeling. Completely stops you in your tracks and definitely not ruminating.

 

Thanks

Hi Snorky

 

Speaking from experience, ruminating is exactly what you're doing, even if you don't see it from within--people in the grip of WD often don't.  Look at your pattern of posts--repetitive checking about various symptoms and looking for a reason.  These thoughts aren't being imposed on you by some outside force--they're generated within your mind.  That's good because it is, after all, your mind and you can get back in control.   But its also scary and frustrating because the one thing that makes you, you, seems to be beyond your control.  Try to accept the thoughts and feelings as they come but also accept they only have the power you give them. 

[Colonial]

Oh, ok, got it now...

 

 "...the nerve/pins and needles/numbness sensation in both lower legs. Like the brain is firing signals to the legs but these are somehow misfiring. I’ve asked about this a few times, but always falls on stoney ground...."

 

Yeah I had those electrical shock issues from AntiBiotics...Was only on them for... 10 days I took it.... Oh...

I'd say on and off for 3 months to clear?  It was Levaquin.  At least the medical community has warnings for those now and nobody in the medical group I go to will even dispense them any more.  Soon, eventually, we'll get there with these other meds too.  Slowly but surely the word is getting out and spreading, and more people are learning, from others like us, never to take these drugs EVER...

 

So, it's the drugs, nothing you need to see a doctor about. Healing will come. 

All we can do, as in the immortal words of Daniel O"Connlel is move forward in peace, slowly, and...

Like my Avi:  THIS TOO SHALL PASS...

 

I will go on quietly and slowly, but I will go on firmly, and with a certainty of success.

Daniel O'Connell

[Snorky]

15 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Oh, ok, got it now...

 

 "...the nerve/pins and needles/numbness sensation in both lower legs. Like the brain is firing signals to the legs but these are somehow misfiring. I’ve asked about this a few times, but always falls on stoney ground...."

 

Yeah I had those electrical shock issues from AntiBiotics...Was only on them for... 10 days I took it.... Oh...

I'd say on and off for 3 months to clear?  It was Levaquin.  At least the medical community has warnings for those now and nobody in the medical group I go to will even dispense them any more.  Soon, eventually, we'll get there with these other meds too.  Slowly but surely the word is getting out and spreading, and more people are learning, from others like us, never to take these drugs EVER...

 

So, it's the drugs, nothing you need to see a doctor about. Healing will come. 

All we can do, as in the immortal words of Daniel O"Connlel is move forward in peace, slowly, and...

Like my Avi:  THIS TOO SHALL PASS...

 

I will go on quietly and slowly, but I will go on firmly, and with a certainty of success.

Daniel O'Connell

Think I may have drawn short straw with amitriptyline. This and other TCAs can  leave permanent Parkinsonism type symptom apparent😡. 

 

Still haven’t figured out how to split the Mag C.

[Altostrata]

Yes, you might have to cope with odd feelings from time to time. From what you've said, these do not appear to be major.

 

Perhaps calming yourself, not catastrophizing your symptoms, and carrying on while you gradually recover might be best for you and for the rest of us.

[Erell]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

Try to accept the thoughts and feelings as they come but also accept they only have the power you give them. 

Great comment !

 

About Magnesium citrate : you can find powder  (look on the internet), which Will make you able To take the amount you want.

 

Take care !

[Snorky]

5 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, you might have to cope with odd feelings from time to time. From what you've said, these do not appear to be major.

 

Perhaps calming yourself, not catastrophizing your symptoms, and carrying on while you gradually recover might be best for you and for the rest of us.

Afraid the head tremors are v significant snd painful. Also 24/6, rather than time to time.

Just now, Snorky said:

Afraid the head tremors are v significant snd painful. Also 24/6, rather than time to time.

24/7

[Altostrata]

Right. Perhaps calming yourself, not catastrophizing your symptoms, and carrying on while you gradually recover might be best for you and for the rest of us.

 

If your symptoms are that severe, they may be beyond our capacity as peer counselors. No amount of complaining will change that.

[Snorky]

I know how much you all love my rendition of my ever deteriorating symptoms. (Aka inventory)

 

I want to profusely apologise for any crass comments I made previously about depression being somehow less tolerable than anxiety.

 

Back at work again today-disaster. Yesterday was shaking and some mental confusion. Today complete panic attack trying to understand some budget and manpower figures. Staring at paper, mind seizing up, pretending all ok. Haven’t had that before. Everything was just a blur.

 

Also coupled with mother of all head tremors.

 

Not good when work only real distraction I have. Someone will say it’s more WD, different wave etc.

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

Snorky, you made it through today and yesterday and the day before that and the day before that, etc.  You will make it through  tomorrow.  Rather than facing each day with dread, try to think of one positive thing as soon as you wake up.  When I was in the depths of WD, I realized how lucky I was to have a job with benefits that allowed me to see a therapist.  There is always something positive even in the worst situation. 

 

[Snorky]

30 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Snorky, you made it through today and yesterday and the day before that and the day before that, etc.  You will make it through  tomorrow.  Rather than facing each day with dread, try to think of one positive thing as soon as you wake up.  When I was in the depths of WD, I realized how lucky I was to have a job with benefits that allowed me to see a therapist.  There is always something positive even in the worst situation. 

 

Hi M

 

Thanks for taking time to respond. I’m on the same position as you re employer and benefits, so v grateful for that. (Also seeing therapist in parallel, but limited value so far)

 

Ive been racking my brains, and there is some v minor improvement in the face of the onslaught. I still have awful insomnia, intensified by dawn chorus, snooze on radio etc, but found the constant mental pressure thing to be less of s problem. Ie couldn’t sleep, but not tossing and turning, restless etc.

 

Having said something positive, I’ve got home and on middle of awful depressive episode😡 I wonder if I’ll end up with anxiety in work and depression outside😡😡

 

Thanks

 

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, Snorky said:

Hi M

 

Hving said something positive, I’ve got home and on middle of awful depressive episode😡 I wonder if I’ll end up with anxiety in work and depression outside😡😡

 

Thanks

 

Good to hear the mental issues are fading.

 

You will end up just fine.  IMO, there's nothing permanent about WD and recovery.  The mix of meds and their withdrawal created a perfect storm of thoughts, feelings, and symptoms, and they will continue until your nervous system begins to stabilize and calm.  Worrying about the symptoms and if they're permanent prolongs recovery and is kind of a form of self-torture.  Be grateful for the decrease in mental issues and take that as a sign of more healing to come.

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

Good to hear the mental issues are fading.

 

You will end up just fine.  IMO, there's nothing permanent about WD and recovery.  The mix of meds and their withdrawal created a perfect storm of thoughts, feelings, and symptoms, and they will continue until your nervous system begins to stabilize and calm.  Worrying about the symptoms and if they're permanent prolongs recovery and is kind of a form of self-torture.  Be grateful for the decrease in mental issues and take that as a sign of more healing to come.

Thanks. Will try up cling on to positives. However, bit naive to call it decrease in mental issues, when I had a whole basket of them at 9am this morning. It was one tiny aspect. It enabled me to lie in bed,  not sleeping, instead of throwing myself around cursing.

[mstimc]

14 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Will try up cling on to positives. However, bit naive to call it decrease in mental issues, when I had a whole basket of them at 9am this morning. It was one tiny aspect. It enabled me to lie in bed,  not sleeping, instead of throwing myself around cursing.

Snorky, don't take this the wrong way, but are you sure you want to recover?   In your previous post you said the mental issues decreased and now you say they didn't.  I think, subconsciously, there's a part of us that wants to hang on to negative habits.  It is hell, but it's a known hell.  Recovery takes us to unknown territory and can be scary.  Recovery means  you have to stop empowering negative ruminations.  You also need to stop turning minor improvements into negatives.  You're not going to wake up one day and feel great.  Improvement will be slow but you need to give it a chance. 

[Snorky]

31 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Snorky, don't take this the wrong way, but are you sure you want to recover?   In your previous post you said the mental issues decreased and now you say they didn't.  I think, subconsciously, there's a part of us that wants to hang on to negative habits.  It is hell, but it's a known hell.  Recovery takes us to unknown territory and can be scary.  Recovery means  you have to stop empowering negative ruminations.  You also need to stop turning minor improvements into negatives.  You're not going to wake up one day and feel great.  Improvement will be slow but you need to give it a chance. 

Hi

 

Sure I want to recover. I’m no masochist. I didn’t go through six months of turmoil and anguish for no reason. Funnily enough, had another slightly better night last night. The mental anguish doesn’t seem to impact so much and I can rest, if not sleep. However, last few days, there has been massive stress/mental tension in work. Couldn’t do much yesterday, and more of the same today. Unable to understand, communicate with colleagues. God knows what’s happening.

[mstimc]

Hi Snorky

I've seen you refer to Parkinsonism on this thread and elsewhere.  Is that something you were diagnosed with or did you infer it from your symptoms?

[Snorky]

Hi M

 

Bo diagnosis. Based on:

1. Extent of head tremors.

2. Some proven association with amitriptyline usage.

3. Some earlier experience while on ADs, but nothing remotely like this.

 

I’ve had it all day,  every day, in work this week. It goes really well with the awful mental anguish and confusion and the nerve pain, To mitigate and promote positive thoughts, went to gym three times. No alleviation of these symptom and now horrible depressive episode. I guess it’s just a normal “wave” though. 

 

The He way I feel, I’d willingly have the bad strain of corona virus. At least a beginning and end to that.

 

Thanks as always.

No diagnosis.

[mstimc]

Sorry..what's a "Bo" diagnosis?

[Colonial]

36 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Sorry..what's a "Bo" diagnosis?

Bo diagnosis: "Based On"

self diagnosis based on symptoms and possible drug damage I think.

[mstimc]

3 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Bo diagnosis: "Based On"

self diagnosis based on symptoms and possible drug damage I think.

Gracias!

[Snorky]

Corrected in last line of post. 

No diagnosis, but.. Grateful for any further views on this. Thanks.

[mstimc]

9 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Corrected in last line of post. 

No diagnosis, but.. Grateful for any further views on this. Thanks.

 

Thanks, Snorky.  It can be helpful to name your dragon, as they say.  But it can go too far during WD.  The goal is to be able to say "Yes, this a symptom of WD and I need to deal with it as such."  But self-diagnosis can be a double-edged sword.   You don't want to get so wrapped up in defining each symptom you lose sight of the goal of reducing and eventually eliminating them.  You've defined them, now its time to move on and use our support and coping tools to deal with them.