Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

 

Hi Snorky

 

I'm not an expert on supplements, but please heed the advice of the mods and others; your nervous system is already destabilized.  Piling magnesium and fish oil on top of that may not be the best choice right now.  If you do, do one at a time. 

Thanks M

 

It’s difficult as symptoms still deteriorating and unbearable.  Supplements are almost my last hope before reinstating the 37.5mg venlafaxine. 

 

Have tried to heed advice re dose, but v varied.

 

Just like consensus on which to introduce first and initial dose.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Colonial]

Here's the thread on supplements:

 

 

[Colonial]

 

here is the one on magnesium

 

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

On 3/3/2020 at 2:11 AM, Snorky said:

Last night woke at 3.30, 4.15, 5.30 and 6.15.

heh, we could have called each other to chat, I was awake every hour or so all night too!

 

 got your private message, I'm not sure exactly what you wanted, there was no question....?

 

regarding supplements, if you go back and read thru your thread you will see that many people have given you advice and suggestions.

 

I have nothing to add. 

[Colonial]

On 3/2/2020 at 3:05 AM, Snorky said:

I also note you urge cutting to 25mg. Is that what most do to start? (Cutting 100mg tablet into four??)

 

 

On 3/2/2020 at 1:16 PM, Snorky said:

On 3/2/2020 at 12:31 PM, Colonial said:

Those capsules you found look ok to me!

They each have 100mg in them, so hopefully you open them to take out the right amount.

Message them to see if they are easy to open.

Alto recommends starting at 25mg to see how it goes.

If you start at 400 and have a reaction then it's hard to say if you cant take it at all or You just took too much in your weakened state.

 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

heh, we could have called each other to chat, I was awake every hour or so all night too!

 

 got your private message, I'm not sure exactly what you wanted, there was no question....?

 

regarding supplements, if you go back and read thru your thread you will see that many people have given you advice and suggestions.

 

I have nothing to add. 

Hi

 

The “advice” is “take it easy, introduce onevat a time etc”. All I need to know is:

 

Which one should I introduce first?

How much Omega 3 should I start with (my 1000 capsules contain 250 EHA etc)

 

Thanks

[Colonial]

 

No one can tell you which one to start first, there is no accepted protocol, it's up to You.

 

13 hours ago, Snorky said:

However, I also have omega 3. These are 1000mg with 250mg EPA and DHA.

 

 

If your supplements are the 1,000mg ones, than that is a good starting dose for that when you start, unless after reading the self care section below,

You want to start higher.

 

So, you now have both links to both threads, the fish oil and the Magnesium starting around 25 mg.

THIS IS ALL THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE.

Up to you which you want to start with! 😏

Good luck!

 

 

[Gridley]

On 2/29/2020 at 7:11 AM, Snorky said:

 

Should these be ok to take?

Should I introduce one for a few days?

Which one would you take first?

 

 

If you can divide the fish oil into a smaller dose, that would be good.   I take 1000mg, others on the site take more.  I'd probably start with the magnesium since it might give you relief sooner.  I can't tolerate more than 100mg, other can.  I'd start with 25 or 50mg and work up, or whatever the smallest dose you can manage with what you have. It can have a laxative effect at larger doses.

 

I think it would be fine to introduce one for a few days and see how it does, maybe a week.  Then you can introduce the other.

 

  

[Snorky]

11 minutes ago, Colonial said:

 

No one can tell you which one to start first, there is no accepted protocol, it's up to You.

 

 

If your supplements are the 1,000mg ones, than that is a good starting dose for that when you start, unless after reading the self care section below,

You want to start higher.

 

So, you now have both links to both threads, the fish oil and the Magnesium starting around 25 mg.

THIS IS ALL THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE.

Up to you which you want to start with! 😏

Good luck!

 

 

Thank you C

 

V helpful and clear.

[Katy398]

Hi Snorky,

Without looking it all up myself I’m not sure exactly. 

I’d start with Magnesium because of insomnia. 

Colonial has given you the link.

There is so much info on this site. To search I find using 1 or 2 words is best. 

e.g. Fish oil

Click underneath the search box and select the filters you want e.g. topics only and All words in my search and any other filters you think useful. Then you have all the details. Start small on supplements but with fish oil you can’t cut so one capsule at a time. 

Slowly slowly. Don’t worry about it all too much.  take half a tablet or a small scoop whatever form you have and then if no reaction gradually each day increase a little until you are at the highest dose. Read the posts on each supplement by searching them with the topic only filter. 

Good luck you can do it you really can.

take care Kx

[Snorky]

13 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

If you can divide the fish oil into a smaller dose, that would be good.   I take 1000mg, others on the site take more.  I'd probably start with the magnesium since it might give you relief sooner.  I can't tolerate more than 100mg, other can.  I'd start with 25 or 50mg and work up, or whatever the smallest dose you can manage with what you have. It can have a laxative effect at larger doses.

 

I think it would be fine to introduce one for a few days and see how it does, maybe a week.  Then you can introduce the other.

 

  

Thanks G

 

V helpful and clear.

[Snorky]

1 minute ago, Katy398 said:

Hi Snorky,

Without looking it all up myself I’m not sure exactly. 

I’d start with Magnesium because of insomnia. 

Colonial has given you the link.

There is so much info on this site. To search I find using 1 or 2 words is best. 

e.g. Fish oil

Click underneath the search box and select the filters you want e.g. topics only and All words in my search and any other filters you think useful. Then you have all the details. Start small on supplements but with fish oil you can’t cut so one capsule at a time. 

Slowly slowly. Don’t worry about it all too much.  take half a tablet or a small scoop whatever form you have and then if no reaction gradually each day increase a little until you are at the highest dose. Read the posts on each supplement by searching them with the topic only filter. 

Good luck you can do it you really can.

take care Kx

Thanks K

[Snorky]

Hi All

 

V slight problem, Mag G arrived today, (200mg) They’re plastic coated, but just full of powder, not beads. Guess I’d need to invest in a jeweller’s scale to measure out 25mg? 

 

Think I’m cursed.

 

Thanks

[Happy2Heal]

you can mix the powder with water

 

it often has a slightly sweet taste 

[Snorky]

Thanks. Still doesn't tell me how to get from 200 to 25 mg though.

 

[Colonial]

Take out half the pill, put it in 8 ounces of water, stir and then pour into 4 equal bathroom size cups.

 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

Take out half the pill, put it in 8 ounces of water, stir and then pour into 4 equal bathroom size cups.

 

Thanks

 

I get the math, but not clear on process. How would I “take out half the pill”? 

 

 

[Colonial]

If its a capsule sealed at the center, you just slightly twist the 2 opposite sides back and both and separate them.

If its some other form you need to cut it open and then separate the contents the best you can.

[Snorky]

27 minutes ago, Colonial said:

If its a capsule sealed at the center, you just slightly twist the 2 opposite sides back and both and separate them.

If its some other form you need to cut it open and then separate the contents the best you can.

Hi C

 

Many thanks.

 

Mine are capsules. They certainly twist, but not sure I can accurately capture 100mg and then split again.

[Colonial]

 

Well, before You start you look and see how much of the capsule is full, it's usually about 80%.

So when it starts to separate, take the top off the smaller end of the capsule, and then let that amount into the glass.

If there still looks to be more that 40% left in the other side, let a little bit more out before you reseal it.

All you can to is eye ball it the best you can, that's the reason we're starting at low dosages,

So if You accidentally get 20 mgs one serving and 35 another, it's still relatively low to start than swallowing a whole pill.

 

[Snorky]

40 minutes ago, Colonial said:

 

Well, before You start you look and see how much of the capsule is full, it's usually about 80%.

So when it starts to separate, take the top off the smaller end of the capsule, and then let that amount into the glass.

If there still looks to be more that 40% left in the other side, let a little bit more out before you reseal it.

All you can to is eye ball it the best you can, that's the reason we're starting at low dosages,

So if You accidentally get 20 mgs one serving and 35 another, it's still relatively low to start than swallowing a whole pill.

 

Ok. Will have a play with it, but think I may struggle. Thanks 

[Snorky]

SOS to anyone out there. 

 

Sleep now utterly impossible. (Not confident about splitting magnesium capsule. Is there a video out there?)

 

1. Yesterday-went on another trip to “distract” with family. It was a bus and train ride, walk along a coast and meal. Unfortunately, I experienced nothing but horrendous low mood throughout, particularly walking through churchyard with v old graves.

 

2. Last night-Woke at 3.30 then couldn’t get back to sleep. Head pins and needles, depressive feelings from yesterday. Nerve pains in legs and restlessness. All these kick in as soon as you close your eyes. I would challenge anyone to sleep more than five minutes in these circumstances.

 

3. Depression- this is about the fifth distraction trip I’ve been on and my mood has got progressively bleaker on each. Don’t understand why this might happen when  I’m seeking distraction from condition?

 

I’m still holding off reinstatement of Effexor, but v desperate now. How can O change channels on my case?

 

Thanks

[mstimc]

Snorky, it sounds like you are making yourself expect the worse in every situation.  Just from what you've written, you expect to have a miserable time before you walk out the door.  Negative thinking is as much a habit as anything else, and like a habit it can be hard to break.  It sounds trite, but when you go out, try to live just in that moment; recognize something beautiful or interesting and focus your thoughts on that.

 

I still have anxious moments because we're 6,000 miles from home and my comfort zone.  So when we go for a walk, I look around for things to focus on.  There are many buildings here with beautiful tile work and I try focusing on that.  Sometimes its silly things.  There are a lot of tiny Smart Cars here (a running joke in the US) and just for fun I started counting them to see how many I could tip over in an hour (32 is the record so far)! 

 

You can have happiness if you give yourself that chance.  But you will never make any progress if you continue the inner dialogue of how hopeless everything is and always will be.

[Snorky]

20 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Snorky, it sounds like you are making yourself expect the worse in every situation.  Just from what you've written, you expect to have a miserable time before you walk out the door.  Negative thinking is as much a habit as anything else, and like a habit it can be hard to break.  It sounds trite, but when you go out, try to live just in that moment; recognize something beautiful or interesting and focus your thoughts on that.

 

I still have anxious moments because we're 6,000 miles from home and my comfort zone.  So when we go for a walk, I look around for things to focus on.  There are many buildings here with beautiful tile work and I try focusing on that.  Sometimes its silly things.  There are a lot of tiny Smart Cars here (a running joke in the US) and just for fun I started counting them to see how many I could tip over in an hour (32 is the record so far)! 

 

You can have happiness if you give yourself that chance.  But you will never make any progress if you continue the inner dialogue of how hopeless everything is and always will be.

Hi

 

Thanks for interest as ever. Re-depressive episode. I was just reporting how miserable I felt during the walk and the fact that my brain was playing this back to me overnight. I was not in any way expecting or predetermining the outcome. I look forward to them and am v grateful others are taking the trouble to arrange these  I’ve been on give now and the reality is the depression has been more prevalent on each successive one. I guess the sensation about graveyards is common if everything is being magnified by the CT?? 

 

The depression is 24/7 now, not just on these trips. It would be great to find folk who experienced these awful, palpable sensations well into their WD, particularly appearing to deteriorate?

 

Just need something to buoy me, as current strategies and activities obviously failing.

 

Thanks

Meant been on five trips.

[mstimc]

6 hours ago, Snorky said:

Hi

 

Thanks for interest as ever. Re-depressive episode. I was just reporting how miserable I felt during the walk and the fact that my brain was playing this back to me overnight. I was not in any way expecting or predetermining the outcome. I

Hi Snorky

 

Going back to one of my earlier comments, what are you looking for or trying to achieve?  Do you want to be able to enjoy your outings?  Generally feel better?  It's kind of hard to know how to respond if you can't tell us what you're looking for.

[Snorky]

5 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Hi Snorky

 

Going back to one of my earlier comments, what are you looking for or trying to achieve?  Do you want to be able to enjoy your outings?  Generally feel better?  It's kind of hard to know how to respond if you can't tell us what you're looking for.

Hi M

 

What  “I’m trying to achieve” from the family trips, and all other activities, is to rejuvenate that part of my brain (serotonin/dopamine receptors) that have obviously been ravaged by the abrupt amitriptyline withdrawal and subsequent CT. I want to start the process of rediscovering my old self, with old motivation and reward senses.

 

That has always been my objective.

 

[mstimc]

25 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Hi M

 

What  “I’m trying to achieve” from the family trips, and all other activities, is to rejuvenate that part of my brain (serotonin/dopamine receptors) that have obviously been ravaged by the abrupt amitriptyline withdrawal and subsequent CT. I want to start the process of rediscovering my old self, with old motivation and reward senses.

 

That has always been my objective.

 

Ok, then ask yourself how.  I'm a certified auditor; I base my observations on evidence.  From what I observe, you're focused on trying to figure out how to split capsules and other technical issues like dopamine receptors..  You need to recognize and deal with the emotional aspect--the fact you feel like nothing can touch you or make you happy.  Try dealing with the thoughts and behaviors.   During my WD and recovery, I didn't spend a lot of time or energy trying to figure out if my dopamine receptors were being affected.  I also accepted than most physical symptoms were WD-related. I concentrated on how to handle the negative thoughts as they occurred.  Until you address the thought processes, none of the other things will help much.

[Snorky]

50 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Ok, then ask yourself how.  I'm a certified auditor; I base my observations on evidence.  From what I observe, you're focused on trying to figure out how to split capsules and other technical issues like dopamine receptors..  You need to recognize and deal with the emotional aspect--the fact you feel like nothing can touch you or make you happy.  Try dealing with the thoughts and behaviors.   During my WD and recovery, I didn't spend a lot of time or energy trying to figure out if my dopamine receptors were being affected.  I also accepted than most physical symptoms were WD-related. I concentrated on how to handle the negative thoughts as they occurred.  Until you address the thought processes, none of the other things will help much.

I’m only focussed on capsules, as want to do something to help me sleep. I think the dopamine/ serotonin deficiency may prove to be more than technical. I base that on lack of progress in relieving depression/anhedonia despite endless activities and 121 behavioural therapy to deal with negative thought processes and behaviours. Incidentally, still don’t know what I did wrong re account of trips?

 

Thank you snd God bless.

[mstimc]

You didn't do anything wrong and I didn't intend to mean you did.  What I'm suggesting is that you concentrate on positive strategies to deal with the thoughts and feelings rather than trying to figure out the specific how and why of each symptom.  

[Snorky]

15 minutes ago, mstimc said:

You didn't do anything wrong and I didn't intend to mean you did.  What I'm suggesting is that you concentrate on positive strategies to deal with the thoughts and feelings rather than trying to figure out the specific how and why of each symptom.  

Thanks. Been trying that for months. What happens is this: 

 

The symptoms let rip, and I report on them when asked, particularly the deterioration. I try not to ruminate.  Not sure what else I can do.

[mstimc]

15 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Been trying that for months. What happens is this: 

 

The symptoms let rip, and I report on them when asked, particularly the deterioration. I try not to ruminate.  Not sure what else I can do.

 

Good Morning, Snorky

 

I've been thinking about this.  When I was a manager, I used to tell my crew to get in front of their issues, which is a way of saying define and manage a situation instead of reacting to it.  Maybe it would help if you took this approach: "Yesterday I went with the family to the zoo, but found myself ruminating on dark thoughts and didn't enjoy myself.  In a few days, we're going to a nature park and I'm afraid the same thing will happen.  To prepare myself, when I feel the dark thoughts coming, I will concentrate on the beauty of the sun filtering through the leaves or focus on the sound of water running in the stream.  The dark thoughts will come but I have the right, the power, and the ability to think positive thoughts instead, at least for the time I'm in the park." 

 

The negative thinking won't go away without something to replace it. Deny it the exclusive use of your mind by focusing on things and thoughts you enjoy. 

[Snorky]

12 minutes ago, mstimc said:

 

Good Morning, Snorky

 

I've been thinking about this.  When I was a manager, I used to tell my crew to get in front of their issues, which is a way of saying define and manage a situation instead of reacting to it.  Maybe it would help if you took this approach: "Yesterday I went with the family to the zoo, but found myself ruminating on dark thoughts and didn't enjoy myself.  In a few days, we're going to a nature park and I'm afraid the same thing will happen.  To prepare myself, when I feel the dark thoughts coming, I will concentrate on the beauty of the sun filtering through the leaves or focus on the sound of water running in the stream.  The dark thoughts will come but I have the right, the power, and the ability to think positive thoughts instead, at least for the time I'm in the park." 

 

The negative thinking won't go away without something to replace it. Deny it the exclusive use of your mind by focusing on things and thoughts you enjoy. 

Thanks M

 

V helpful analysis. The only problem is confusing WD symptoms with negative thoughts etc. The depressive sensations just hit me, I don’t control them. I do my utmost to avoid ruminating afterwards, but can’t stop the initial feelings. The examples I quoted in previous family outings were like this. Relentless bombardment of sensations etc. 

 

Does that make sense?

[mstimc]

Yes, it makes sense but you can treat them the same.  Whether its WD or underlying anxiety/depression isn't as important as your response to it.  No, you can't stop the feelings from coming, but you can decide how you respond.  Ask yourself how you're going to respond one they hit you.  Look back on the previous posts where members have given you guidance on coping techniques.

[Snorky]

6 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Yes, it makes sense but you can treat them the same.  Whether its WD or underlying anxiety/depression isn't as important as your response to it.  No, you can't stop the feelings from coming, but you can decide how you respond.  Ask yourself how you're going to respond one they hit you.  Look back on the previous posts where members have given you guidance on coping techniques.

Thanks again. Trying to change channel and confront negative thoughts via my 121 sessions etc. The reality is that it’s soooo difficult to limit the impact of these depressive sensations. Makes no difference whether sunny or dull. Eg walked past half empty caravan park and v empty and desolate feeling. Churchyard with a few v old graves that completely finished me off. (Also nightmare about this the following night) I’m no doc or shrink, but there’s obviously a rawness and magnifying of anything negative. V difficult to translate those strategies to mitigate or alleviate these.

[mstimc]

2 hours ago, Snorky said:

 V difficult to translate those strategies to mitigate or alleviate these.

Can you go into a little more detail--what exactly do you mean by translating those strategies?

[Snorky]

2 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Can you go into a little more detail--what exactly do you mean by translating those strategies?

Hi

 

You refer to using positive thinking/coping strategies to deal with both the symptoms and subsequent negative thoughts of WD. I agree in principle. However, in my case,(examples drawn from Friday’s walk around caravan park and churchyard) the depressive “symptoms” (not thoughts) are so palpable and overwhelming that you just can’t challenge them midstream and hope they go away. I tell myself these sensations are not real, desperately look to remember joy of sunshine, exercise etc. However, hadn’t worked so far. Makes one think they must be organic, chemical, in nature??

 

I find the same issue with my other symptoms. (Internal head pressure, pins and needles type tightening feeling contributing to insomnia and cog fog/anxiety during day. Also Parkinsonism shakes in head and constant nerve sensations in both lower legs) I focus on future, small goals, keep telling myself to accept,  common symptoms of WD, will get better etc. I understand the coping strategies may not help with the symptoms, at least not on first six months for me, but they don’t even seem to be helping me cope.

 

Sorry if that’s too long winded.

 

Much appreciate your support, would be lost without you.

 

God bless.