Mia1: hope in early recovery

[Mia1]

I started taking MMJ two years ago to help “manage” my anxiety so I could come off of 50 mg of Amitriptyline and .50 of Klonopin. My doctor was completely on board with this as he said it’s “natural” and really wanted me off Klonopin. This past February I ended up accidentally overdosing on MMJ and started to hallucinate. I was told my metabolism must have changed and that I would have to readjust the dose. Even in my state of mind I knew that was a horrible idea and CT’ed the MMJ. I had NO idea what I was doing or what was in store for me. I was put on 2 mg of Abilify and was told that it would help “speed the withdrawal process.” I never even decreased the Amitriptyline or Klonopin the entire time I took the MMJ. I was told after a month to just stop the Abilify.

I can’t even attempt to describe the terror I felt the next two months. I had de realization, depersonalization, disordered thinking, panic attacks, it goes on and on. I didn’t sleep AT ALL the first month and then the second month I was getting 1-2 hours a night. I didn’t even know that it was physically possible to go that long without sleep. I developed paradoxical insomnia as well as a fear of insomnia. I stopped the Ability after one month. I decided by the third month I would taper the Amitriptyline since I initially took it for sleep and it wasn’t helping. Did I mention I had NO idea what I was doing? I went from 50mg to 6mg in two months. I honestly was about to throw in the towel at this point and go on an antidepressant but then found this site. I knew at this point I was in PAWS from MMJ but didn’t realize cutting the Amitriptyline this fast was a contributing factor. I thought that this was my “mental illness” coming back. I increased back to 10 mg in July and am holding steady. I am currently on 10 mg Amitriptyline and .50 mg Klonopin.

Seven months later I still have a lot of issues. More importantly I have a lot of hope. I worked with a wonderful hypnotist and am at the point where I don’t worry about sleep. I eat well and exercise every day. I practice gratitude and am learning to live in the moment. I still wake up every 1-2 hours a night; most nights I fall back asleep and I am grateful for that. I’m learning to observe my thoughts and use my anxiety and fear as guides. I am already the strongest person I know. I’m only starting my journey but wanted to share early hope for those that may be struggling with acceptance. I also want to thank everyone on this site, you have been a part of my journey.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Mia1.  You have a great attitude, and that will stand you in good stead in this process.  Eating well is very important.  Regarding exercise, some members find strenuous exercise too stimulating and do better with more gentle exercise like a walk in nature.  Whatever works for you.

 

What re your withdrawal symptoms?

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.  A list format is best.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

You system has been through a lot, and you need to hold steady on your current doses of Amitriptyline and Klonopin until you stabilize, a process that can take several months.  So that you have a better idea of what you're experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal and the healing process.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Once you've stabilized (and, again, this can take several months), you'll be ready to taper.  We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four months.  Some can go a bit faster and some have to go slower.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

We recommend tapering only one drug at a time.  Otherwise, if problems arise you won't know the cause. Generally, we suggest tapering the more activating drug first, leaving the more sedating or neutral drug in place to taper later.  Tricyclics like Amitriptyline and benzos like klonopin are both sedating drugs, so you'd need to decide which to go off first based on how the drugs are affecting your system.  You don't have to be concerned about this now.

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

For future reference, this link is specifically about tapering Amitriptyline.  

 

Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

At present we don't have a link about tapering Klonopin, but you'd taper it using the same 10% approach.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mia1]

Thank you Gridley for your response and the great information you provided me with. I had been exercising at the gym prior to this so was able to ease back with no issues. I also do nature walks and stretch yoga. I don’t consume caffeine. After reading other posts on this site I started to take magnesium and fish oil, which has been very calming to my nervous system.

 I’ve added my drug signature and included supplements I’m taking. Yes, I’m planning to stay on this dose for at least six months and will follow your advice to taper by 10%, I definitely need to heal. My current symptoms are anxiety, de realization, dizziness, nausea, difficulty concentrating, intrusive thoughts and sleep disturbances. I’m currently sleeping 6-8 hours most nights but wake up every 1-2 hours. I’m happy with my progress.

[Gridley]

@Mia1  

 

The symptoms you describe are typical withdrawal symptoms.

 

I've found this restorative yoga pose helpful with anxiety.

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

 

 

 

[Mia1]

Fantastic, I’ll take all the help I can get!! Thanks again.

[Mia1]

Hi, I really need some advice today. So I’ve been on Amitriptyline 50 mg for about 5 years and as stated in my introduction I attempted a ridiculous fast taper going from 50 mg to 8 mg in two months and then going up to 10mg once I found this site. I have had a significant amount of anxiety but have been coping with it. The past couple of days I have been experiencing panic almost all day and it is disrupting my already disrupted sleep. I am wondering if I can/should go up another 2 mg? I would appreciate any help.

[Gridley]

7 minutes ago, Mia1 said:

I am wondering if I can/should go up another 2 mg?

There are going to be windows and waves (ups and downs), and stabilizing after an updose takes several months..  One possibility is to wait another day to see if symptoms calm down.  If they don't, you could updose 1mg to start.  If you feel you have to, you could updose today.  You might get relief within a day or two, but it takes 4 days for the new dose to reach full strength in your bloodstream and a few more days for it to register in the brain.  Give the 1mg updose time to work.  Let's see how you do on 11mg before considering going any higher.

[Mia1]

That sounds like a good plan, I really appreciate the quick response. 

[Mia1]

@Gridley I wanted to update you where I am now. I decided against going up on the Amitriptyline as anxiety and panic were my main reasons for going on medication in the first place. I have been working on positive non drug coping skills that have been effective. I feel I am now withdrawal normal so will be reducing my Amitriptyline 1mg starting tonight. I think I will hold here about three weeks and see how I feel. Any thoughts? I really appreciate your help and support!

[Gridley]

7 minutes ago, Mia1 said:

so will be reducing my Amitriptyline 1mg starting tonight. I think I will hold here about three weeks and see how I feel

I'm very glad your coping skills are helping.

 

It's better to reduce using a 10% of current dose rate rather than a straight 1mg cut.  

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dropping 1mg a month sound like a nice slow taper, and if you were on a much higher dose it would work well.  It's fine to drop from 10mg to 9, but 10mg is the last dose when dropping by 1mg would be within the 10% rate.  After that, I'd recommend using the percentage rate.  

 

10mg is right at the top of the most sensitive part of the taper. Something like 85% of the drug's effectiveness happens in the first 10 mg, so making even a small change can have a big effect symptom wise. Decreasing by a straight 1mg also accelerates the amount that you  would be decreasing each time making it rougher and rougher with each drop. Decreasing by a percentage, however, decelerates the amount of each drop and makes things gentler on your system.

 

I would also hold for 4 weeks rather than 3 to let your system acclimate itself itself to the lower dose.  Symptoms can be delayed, and four weeks is safer to let things settle down.

 

[Mia1]

Oh wow, I really appreciate this. I will wait 4 weeks and then decrease by 10 percent going forward. Definitely want to minimize any W/D. It’s incredible all the information you have, I really appreciate your time. And congrats for getting off Lexapro!!

[Mia1]

I wanted to update my post. Starting 1/21 I started my Amitriptyline taper. I have been doing exhaustive work on myself so I decided to do an accelerated taper.  I tapered 1 mg every two weeks and am now completely done with this drug as of 4/25/21. Although I don’t recommend this to anyone I felt it was right for me. I do have symptoms of detox but it is nothing I can’t handle. 

@Shep @Gridley So now I’m going to wait 2-3 months to let my brain and body adjust before I start tapering my last medication, klonopin. I am going to go slowly with this one as I’ve been on it for 20 years. I’m thinking 10% to start. Any advice you can offer I would appreciate, thank you!!

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Mia1 said:

o now I’m going to wait 2-3 months

I would wait at least 3 months, not two, then see how you're feeling before starting the klonopin taper.  Make sure you're stable.

Tapering 10% of current dose every four weeks is our usual recommendation.

[Mia1]

@GridleyThank you for your response and advice, I will definitely wait three months before tapering klonopin. Will keep you posted.

[Mia1]

I just posted this on someone’s thread:

When I first started my journey I was in PAWS and had intense anxiety surrounding my health and sleep, and funny enough I was hyper focused on my heart as well. I also went to acupuncturists, massage therapists, chiropractors, hypnotists, etc. I also ate well and exercised. All of these things helped my physical recovery but ultimately did nothing for my emotional symptoms. It was only when I started to look within at those feelings that I was afraid to face did I start to heal. I started a daily meditation practice, worked tirelessly on acceptance, self love  and mindfulness. I watched and read all manner of things from spiritual teachers that resonated with me. I learned to be patient with myself and my recovery. I practiced and continue to practice every single day those skills I wish to have. Through all this work I found it was my reaction to my symptoms and not my symptoms that were causing my suffering.

So, the quick and short advice to you is don’t give up. Don’t let anxiety and fear be your boss. Go to the bachelorette party in fear but GO AND LIVE YOUR LIFE. Join a 12 step program. Start a daily meditation practice. Face your feelings, they won’t kill you even if it feels like they will. Keep doing this. Find out what acceptance means to you and go so deep into it that it doesn’t matter what you are feeling. Love yourself more than you love anxiety. Ultimately you will find what works for you if you seek it. You just need some courage and determination and a little bit of hope. I know you can do this, look at what you have done already!!

 

 

[Mia1]

Love this whole quote:

 

“I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship.” Let the fear be the guide navigating your boat. It's not the calm waters but the wildest storms that are the greatest teachers. We learn to sail if we allow ourselves to take every wave that rocked our boat as an opportunity to grow.

[Mia1]

It’s been one month since stopping Amitriptyline. Most prominent w/d symptoms came out between weeks 2-3. Biggest ones are: brain fog, sleep disturbances, overall fatigue, neuro emotions and anxiety when I connect with thoughts. I see this as a great opportunity to continue to dis connect from thoughts and become present in my life.  I’m always at such peace in presence.

I’ve had a pretty significant spiritual awakening recently where I truly see how I create all my suffering in life through identification with thoughts. I see that fear is an illusion created by the mind. It is so liberating to truly know at a cellular level that nothing “bad” can ever happen to me. For me, meditation was the first step in my spiritual journey and I can’t recommend it enough. 

I wish everyone on this site lots of love and healing energy. We all get there, we just have our own individual paths that take us there. 💓

[KittenLePurr]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:14 PM, Mia1 said:

Love this whole quote:

 

“I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship.” Let the fear be the guide navigating your boat. It's not the calm waters but the wildest storms that are the greatest teachers. We learn to sail if we allow ourselves to take every wave that rocked our boat as an opportunity to grow.

I love this so much! Extra grateful to @Greatfulfor suggesting I use the search function😬 

[Greatful]

@Mia1 This is the article that I found so fascinating.  Have you seen it?

I thought of you this weekend, I remember you said once that husband go out and have fun on the weekends.

I finally went out to a sit down restaurant Olive Garden this afternoon for lunch with my husband, we also did some errands.  It was nice to get out, but  remember I am so hyper sensitive to noise and commotion, well by the time I was on my way home after being on the go for 3 hrs. I was near tears.  My poor brain was a numb and tingling mess.  I was so fatigued, anxious and down, I took a Tylenol and got my computer and sat on my front porch to recuperate.  I got kind of down on myself,  I get frustrated that I can't do the things I use to do.  I tend to take it as a personal failure.  I try to tell myself that it is not a reflection on me personally but I am in WD.  Anyway next time maybe I should just do one thing on my outing.  

 

How was your weekend?

 

 

[Mia1]

@Greatful I’m tapering Klonopin next so I have been doing my research and I did happen upon this article. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention though, I’ll go back and re read it.

 I’m so happy you got out and had some fun. Yes, it sounds like maybe you should just do one thing since your nervous system is so activated. We went to brunch today and it was so loud it I started to feel nauseous. We are definitely in drug w/d so it’s good to know our limits and take care of ourselves. Certainly not a failure, it’s self care. We just need a little extra TLC right now!!

How’s the mindful work coming along?

 

[Surviving82]

On 4/26/2021 at 9:30 AM, Mia1 said:

I wanted to update my post. Starting 1/21 I started my Amitriptyline taper. I have been doing exhaustive work on myself so I decided to do an accelerated taper.  I tapered 1 mg every two weeks and am now completely done with this drug as of 4/25/21. Although I don’t recommend this to anyone I felt it was right for me. I do have symptoms of detox but it is nothing I can’t handle. 

@Shep @Gridley So now I’m going to wait 2-3 months to let my brain and body adjust before I start tapering my last medication, klonopin. I am going to go slowly with this one as I’ve been on it for 20 years. I’m thinking 10% to start. Any advice you can offer I would appreciate, thank you!!

@Mia1, hi Mia, I am no expert in tapering or WD, but I've read about WD after long term benzo use. If I were you, I'd go 5% every 4 weeks. You've been on klonopin for so long, your body is probably fully dependent on it. Luckily the dose is low but nonetheless, benzo wd is very serious (as im sure you know). Wishing you all the best!

[Mia1]

@Surviving82I appreciate you stopping by and offering support. Yes, you are absolutely right, I have been on klonopin a long time and plan to taper this very slowly. I take .25 mg 2xday so was thinking maybe 5%off each dose for a total of 10% to taper each month but I’m not in a rush and will certainly give this more thought. I’m going to wait until the fall to start, possibly longer if my body needs it. I’m definitely done with fast tapers now!!

How are you doing? It sounds like you are really on the road to recovery, I’m so happy for you!!

[Surviving82]

1 minute ago, Mia1 said:

@Surviving82I appreciate you stopping by and offering support. Yes, you are absolutely right, I have been on klonopin a long time and plan to taper this very slowly. I take .25 mg 2xday so was thinking maybe 5%off each dose for a total of 10% to taper each month but I’m not in a rush and will certainly give this more thought. I’m going to wait until the fall to start, possibly longer if my body needs it. I’m definitely done with fast tapers now!!

How are you doing? It sounds like you are really on the road to recovery, I’m so happy for you!!

@Mia1, looks like you know what you are doing so it is great! I think that 5% off each dose sounds like a good plan! Me, I am alright. Some days are better than others. I still have about 6 mildly to moderately unpleasant hours every day, but I am learning to manage and cope. In addition, it seems like the discomfort that I have these days is much less in intensity compared to how it used to be at its worst. It seems that the waves are gradually getting smaller and more tolerable. Not to mention that pretty much every evening starting at about 5PM I feel almost or fully back to my normal self. I try to think about this from the bigger picture, at least I am well enough to do my job and take care of my kids and dogs, and the doctors say that physically I am healthy, which is also very important. Whatever discomfort I have now, it will pass. In the meantime, I find distraction helpful. Nobody said that life is going to be easy, many people live with chronic pain and other chronic conditions and it doesn't stop them from enjoying their life. So I shouldn't let it stop me from enjoying mine either. That's basically where I'm at. I hope that you are having a great day!!! 

[Mia1]

1 hour ago, Surviving82 said:

Not to mention that pretty much every evening starting at about 5PM I feel almost or fully back to my normal self. I try to think about this from the bigger picture, at least I am well enough to do my job and take care of my kids and dogs, and the doctors say that physically I am healthy, which is also very important.

You have so much responsibility and you are handling it so well, this alone shows that you are indeed on the road to full recovery. And a window every night, fantastic!!

 

1 hour ago, Surviving82 said:

many people live with chronic pain and other chronic conditions and it doesn't stop them from enjoying their life. So I shouldn't let it stop me from enjoying mine either. That's basically where I'm at. I hope that you are having a great day!!! 

It’s so true, so much of this is attitude and perception! I’m actually having a great day and I really appreciate you asking. Enjoy the rest of your day, keep me posted on how you are doing😊

[getofflex]

@Mia1it certainly sounds like you are on the right track!  I'm glad you are having a good day today.  

[Surviving82]

@Mia1, awesome news! What is a good day for you? No symptoms? Some symptoms? Fully back to your old self? I am curious what others in a similar situation consider to be a "good day". Thanks! 

[Mia1]

@getofflexI really appreciate you stopping by, thank you for the support!! How are you  you doing? I read your thread a couple weeks back, you are so strong and help so many, thank you!,

 

@Surviving82Believe it or not every single day is a really good day for me regardless of symptoms (which include brain fog, anxiety, sleep disruption, OCD thoughts, burning on my back and tingling in my legs, GI issues.) As I indicated in my thread I have really put in a lot of work and have had many spiritual awakenings along the way, I think we all do. So I trust in God/source, I surrender my negative thoughts and symptoms and practice mindfulness all day which has helped me so much stay present in my life and get out of my head. It also helps me connect with that stillness within. I have become comfortable with all my feelings and no longer suffer my thoughts. 

[getofflex]

I'm doing OK today Mia.  I'm very grateful that I'm slowly getting better from PAWS.  I love your positive attitude.  I myself practice acceptance, and so try to look for the positive in the day, even when I'm having a flareup of PAWS.  

[Surviving82]

2 hours ago, Mia1 said:

@getofflexI really appreciate you stopping by, thank you for the support!! How are you  you doing? I read your thread a couple weeks back, you are so strong and help so many, thank you!,

 

@Surviving82Believe it or not every single day is a really good day for me regardless of symptoms (which include brain fog, anxiety, sleep disruption, OCD thoughts, burning on my back and tingling in my legs, GI issues.) As I indicated in my thread I have really put in a lot of work and have had many spiritual awakenings along the way, I think we all do. So I trust in God/source, I surrender my negative thoughts and symptoms and practice mindfulness all day which has helped me so much stay present in my life and get out of my head. It also helps me connect with that stillness within. I have become comfortable with all my feelings and no longer suffer my thoughts. 

@Mia1, this is really awesome. I am trying to go along this path too. I've made some progress but still have a long way to go. I feel as long as I have something familiar and it doesn't get worse, im ok. But as soon as I have something new, or something that I perceive as getting worse, then unfortunately I relapse and fall back into the hole of self pity and despair. I need to keep practicing acceptance regardless of what comes my way. It looks like you've done such a great progress in this direction. Do you have any books or something else to recommend for this?

[Mia1]

@Surviving82That’s great to hear you’re on a similar path. I still have a long way to go too, it’s a constant practice. W/D certainly gives me many opportunities to practice and has been a good teacher in that respect, so even situations that we view as “bad” can really be a gift. I truly believe that everything happens for us and not to us, it’s all how we choose to see it. What helped me a lot is listening to Alan Watts, he talks about acceptance and surrender and it really resonated with me. A book that I found helpful was Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender by David Hawkins. I would start to just look into the topic and see what comes up for you, find who resonates with you and in the meantime practice acceptance every day, even in small ways. Things that would normally bother you practice letting go. I do believe it’s a skill that gets easier with practice.

 I’m also going to share this interview I found extremely helpful in terms of reprogramming the brain (subconscious) So much of our behavior is actually subconscious programming so when you realize that you can truly start to effect positive change without sabotaging yourself. And if you’re not doing it already I definitely recommend a daily meditation practice to start to become more aware of your thoughts and connect with your deeper self.

Let me know how you do!!

 

 

[Mia1]

14 hours ago, getofflex said:

'm doing OK today Mia.  I'm very grateful that I'm slowly getting better from PAWS.  I love your positive attitude.  I myself practice acceptance, and so try to look for the positive in the day, even when I'm having a flareup of PAWS.  

I’m happy to hear you are getting better. I was in PAWS for quite some time after I CT’ed MMJ, it was a very painful time for me. Acceptance was truly the only thing that helped. That’s great you can find the positive in each day, it really makes a difference. Here’s to another good day, sending you healing vibes 🌈💗

[Mia1]

@Greatful  @KittenLePurr @Surviving82 @SurreyGuy

 

So I’ve been doing a lot of work with anxiety and wanted to share what has worked for me.

What I have found is that it really is a matter of what I call focus or attention training. Anxious people give their thoughts way too much attention. So when you feel anxious it feels like a physical pull to think about these anxious thoughts. It’s quite hard in the beginning of this training to do anything but think about them. So much thinking goes into what you should do, how you can stop it, etc. But the thing is the mind will never be able to cure the anxiety because it is causing it. You must shift your focus (attention) outside the mind.

You do this by focusing on the present. There are many ways to do this but for simplicity sake it just means do not give your anxiety any attention. Focus on what is actually happening outside your mind. Focus on your breath in the beginning if you find this hard to do. If you keep doing this you are training your brain to know that not every thought you have is particularly important and to keep your focus on the present moment. By doing this you eventually eliminate your anxiety because this skill becomes second nature.

Initially it may feel like your mind is fighting you, that’s just resistance. It’s important that you accept anxious thoughts and the sensations it causes. View it as impartially as you can. If you find resistance then that’s okay, just accept the resistance. It’s just energy after all and won’t actually hurt you even though it can feel like it. As we know, whatever we resist persists!!

 I have tried many different techniques through trial and error and have found that this one truly works every time for me. I hope it can help you too. Remember, you don’t have to be perfect at it. We’re changing a habit and that usually takes time and practice.

I think the meditation piece helped me achieve this as I was able to understand what what happening in my mind so much better. I can’t emphasize enough how much a daily meditation practice can change your life. It is possible to do this and do it while in w/d. Even chemical anxiety can be greatly reduced by shifting the focus away. You just need to be a little brave and persistent. I wish everyone the best on their healing journey. I’m sending you a lot of love 💗

[Greatful]

@Mia1  Okay so tell me..   When I follow my lady on Headspace she tell me to recognize that I focus is one thinking  the then let it go and go back to your breathing.  So are we suppose focus on our thoughts or just let them go when you are meditating?  

And sometimes I just have a hard time not getting lost in thoughts,  I do try to refocus.  I figure sometimes it is easier than other times and that I am at least resting and trying to be calm.  So I keep doing it everyday for 20 min. 🙄 

 

Thank You for all the inspiration and taking the time to help us all.  Knowing that you care enough to help, helps me feel like I am somebody🤗

[Mia1]

34 minutes ago, Greatful said:

When I follow my lady on Headspace she tell me to recognize that I focus is one thinking  the then let it go and go back to your breathing.  So are we suppose focus on our thoughts or just let them go when you are meditating?  

Yes, so you want to just be the observer. Observe your thoughts but let them come and go, don’t start a dialogue with them. If you get stuck just observe that and let it go. There’s no right or wrong way to meditate, I think the most important part is to just observe the experience of what’s happening without judgement. 

 

38 minutes ago, Greatful said:

And sometimes I just have a hard time not getting lost in thoughts,  I do try to refocus.  I figure sometimes it is easier than other times and that I am at least resting and trying to be calm.  So I keep doing it everyday for 20 min. 🙄 

Me too!! So just observe that and let it go. Just keep observing and becoming aware of what’s happening. That’s what you are developing, awareness. That’s so awesome you’re doing it every day!! You’re doing so great, you’re putting in the work and that builds momentum. You WILL see this soon!!

 

41 minutes ago, Greatful said:

Thank You for all the inspiration and taking the time to help us all.  Knowing that you care enough to help, helps me feel like I am somebody🤗

Greatful,  your strength is an inspiration to ME!!

[Greatful]

@Mia1 I had better be careful,  you could start charging me by the posts😉  And I would pay you! 

[Greatful]

@Mia1  Hi, Happy 4 of July.  Any plans for the day.  Not us,  We went to church (big one for me with my social phobia and ocd). 

 

I was wondering if I could have you look up a member Bea81.  She is struggling pretty bad right now.  I asked her if it was okay to bring you in on the thread, she is fine with that.  

 

Have a great day