KingPrawn Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) Hello everyone and can I start by saying how glad I am that I found thus site. I've done nothing except read as much as I can about PAWS since it hit me nearly 2 weeks ago and on sheer popularity alone this site seems to be the one I've settled on. My story is one that started in Mt Kate teens when as a result of alcohol abuse I began to develop anxiety symptoms which I then proceeded to compound with a never ending cycle ogself medication with more alcohol and sometimes illicit drugs. Anyway to cut a long story short after 10-15 years of this I managed to defeat the worst of the alcohol binging and then illegal drug use - the problem was though it had left me with terrible OCD ( intrusive thoughts) which made it very hard to socialise normally. So as with many recovering substance abusers I had the usual need for relaxation that nearly everyone beefs when they're socialising hence the popularity if alcohol but with the damage it had done to my nervous system on top of that. Hence my trip to my GP to see if there was anything he could do to help with the residual OCD, anxiety and looking back mild depression. Oh big mistake as I was prescribed my first SSRI Sertaline which in a mild way did help until its efficacy stopped after a year or so from that I changed to citalopram then escitalopram and mirtazipine the latter actually making me feel worse. Finally I was put on fluoxetine which I had always hoped to be put on having read all the glowing reports of it revolutionising peoples' lives. So I remained on this for around 4 years (40mg) till it hit me that I didn't want to remain on any psychotropic drug for the rest of my life, the realisation that it undoubtedly damaged the taker physically and the clincher that I was tired of having unpleasant dreams every night since I had gone on it which themselves didn't exactly set me up cheerfully for the coming day . Anyway back in September this year I spoke to my GP and stated I wanted to come off it he advised a quick taper a month at 20mg and then stop. I'm even sketchy on the exact dates etc as I didn't think for a moment I'd end up in the living nightmare whrte I now find myself marooned. Anyway things seemed to be progressing well for the first around 4-6 weeks after I took my last pill. Then around 12 days ago I started to feel.physically under the weather which within a day had developed into what I thought was the norovirus stomach bug which meant I had to leave work soon after arriving thar day. Anyway what I thought was the virus gradually developed a mental component which then became all consuming. I'm not even sure now if the gastric problems were not just early physical symptoms of the withdrawal. Living by myself and being too weak to go out the psychological symptoms could start to rage unabated. The most severe depression I'd ever experienced- a feeling if utter hopelessness and devestation - anxiety so intense I could sort of feeling it tangibly in my veins, weird (a bit like a pulse of blood in my head rather than 'zaps'), random pains in my legs, terrible guilt for how I felt I had treated my parents (my wonderful mother and late father did not feel I treated them badly I know but all my years mired in the substance abuse I condemn myself for doing thatvwhen I could have made them far prouder of me). On top of all these symptoms my mother is now 89 and starting to become unwell and living 280 miles away I am trying to help get the care she needs .Finally I work as a locum worker so only get paid when I'm in work so can have no time off to deal with this or I will lose everythihg) I have just had a planned week off but this has obviously been taken by the extreme mental distress I'm experiencing with the PAWS so I'm filled with utter dread at the thought of returning to work tomorrow to a job as a medical professional where I have to interact and assist other people all day. Currently I'm just surviving thus excruciating mental torment from hour to hour Since I returned from my mother's 2 days ago I have made myself start an hours work on my exercise bike immediately on rising- I started yesterday and am about to resume in a few minutes. Also intend to force myself to go out with a local walking group at the weekend akthough that in itself may be terrifying if I suddenly have a panic attack in the middle if the countryside with people I don't know. Aside from the above described symptoms the most trivial things are irritating me especially certain sounds and can themself send me hurtling further into the abyss - yes I know that sounds ridiculous but they seem to trigger off intrusive thoughts which I then ruminate on. I have not had any form of alcoholic drink for 4 years next month - there was a long period when I had stopped the binging but believed I could drink sensibly which I now realise was a false belief in my case becsuse about 10 times in 20 years I fell off the wagon quite spectacularly and at my age that was 10 years roo much. The reason I mention this is that I went as far as buying 2 bottles of beer last night to try to give myself sone relief from this torture but I'm happy to say I left them in my car. They will be disposed of down the sink later! I feeling utterly bereft abd hopeless typing this and reading up on the possible months and years of distress ahead I must admit fleeting suicidal ideation has crossed my mind. But I would never do this to my mum and anyway it is counter to my Christian belief but I admit such strange thoughts as almost wanting to be taken seriously physically ill so I get some kind of care have appeared. I have no real family aside from my mother and because I moved 200 away from my hometown 25 years ago only a couple of friends up here abd even they live 40 miles away so it does feel a very lonely fight. I hope I haven't outstay my welcome with this introduction but felt all was necessary to explain the full situation I'm in and how I got here. I also hope that with 'only' around 2 weeks of PAWS under my belt that you do not think it too early to be typing on here. However the symptoms are clearly withdrawal syndrome and I have never felt a fraction of this torment I an in in a life that overall has not been easy. So thanks for providing this service and at least it shows I am far from alone in this awful experience. Finally restarting an AD is just not an option the only meds I would consider is prn benzos if so directed which a British doctor will thankfully never give you more than about 5 x 2.5mg a month maximum. But really I hope that this is it for me with any meds which cross the blood brain barrier for life. And aside from natural remedies I can finally clean my brain of all the pollutants which we can agree is what they all really are. Edited November 21, 2022 by ChessieCat added spacing Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted November 26, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) Hi there KingPrawn and welcome aboard, Do you have a virus now? You made mention of that and so, if any recent viruses please clarify. On 11/20/2022 at 6:00 AM, KingPrawn said: Hence my trip to my GP to see if there was anything he could do to help with the residual OCD, anxiety and looking back mild depression. Oh big mistake as I was prescribed my first SSRI Sertaline which in a mild way did help until its efficacy stopped after a year or so from that I changed to citalopram then escitalopram and mirtazipine the latter actually making me feel worse. Finally I was put on fluoxetine which I had always hoped to be put on having read all the glowing reports of it revolutionising peoples' lives. So I remained on this for around 4 years (40mg) till it hit me that I didn't want to remain on any psychotropic drug for the rest of my life, the realisation that it undoubtedly damaged the taker physically and the clincher that I was tired of having unpleasant dreams every night since I had gone on it which themselves didn't exactly set me up cheerfully for the coming day . Anyway back in September this year I spoke to my GP and stated I wanted to come off it he advised a quick taper a month at 20mg and then stop. I'm even sketchy on the exact dates etc as I didn't think for a moment I'd end up in the living nightmare whrte I now find myself marooned. Okay, and then this is helpful ^. I think you should be able to put that pretty quickly into a signature format for us. Please see: How to summarize your drug history in your signature(just click on the underlined passage to go to that topic, and then scroll up to the first post if need be) Just read, and then follow the instructions to do your signature please. Thank you. Please let us know if you are on any other medications at this time. Thanks. I'm guessing that you have been off the Prozac(fluoxetine) for a month now, or 2 months? Try to estimate in your signature the dates if you need to. When you started fluoxetine, and then when you stopped it as well. Get the doses in as well, as best you remember. Thanks. Once the signature is done, then it appears below each of your posts, and gives us a ready reference, as to your drug history. Depending on the time frame since off Prozac, and your symptoms........you might consider a reinstatement dose. It's not at all meant to remedicate you, only to help take the edge off WD(withdrawal) symptoms, and is done at doses much, much less that what is given for medicating. So do read this topic/ link, and get your signature done as well:About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms I might only reinstate with 1 or 2 mg of Prozac, while keeping objective notes, and seeing if it helped at all. It might take the edge off, or might not. This way we don't risk any hypersensitivity reactions, which can sometimes occur in those with drug histories like yours. And we are happy to discuss this more with you. How we might have helped you come off the Prozac, in a harm reduction way: Why taper by 10% of my dose? Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) If you do reinstate a small amount of Prozac, then ^ will be helpful in getting the small doses required, so......worth a look at More about WD, and healing patterns from WD: Brain Remodelling What is withdrawal syndrome. Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list. Pull up the PDF list of symptoms, and you'll likely see many of your symptoms there The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal. We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) Most of us do have to adopt many non-drug coping practices to deal with WD too, if it has set in. And it sure sounds like you are experiencing WD symptoms now. We have a entire forum devoted to dealing with: Symptoms and Self Care Take a look, when you have time, and start with some of the top pinned topics. Some, in the first post have indexed lists and links to more topics around coping with symptoms This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your WD, give updates, communicate with us, and keep a record of your journey. All for now, and thank you for your patience. Love, peace, healing, and growth, manymoretodays(mmt) Edited November 26, 2022 by manymoretodays Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 3, 2022 Author Share Posted December 3, 2022 Thank you again for taking the time to send such a comprehensive reply - I have now looked at it more closely and will work on the signature Iver the next week. I have no virus now and have cone to the conclusion that what I thought was a virus was actually just severe physical WD starting. Diarrhea and nausea. My problems have been compounded by my 89 year old mother's health having deteriorated quite badly and having to travel 280 miles each way to see her. On top of this I am self-employed and can have literally no time of work to deal with my WDs or I risk losing my house and evrything else I built up despite having had OCD all my adult life. So I have a perfect storm of disaster going on in my life currently. I am now at week 3 and a half of acute withdrawals although I last took any fluoxetine in mid September- so about 10 weeks ago. The advent of the WDs was around 6 weeks after this. All at once full blown physical (gastro and brain whooshes) and mental - agitation., akathisia, depression, intrusive thoughts. I see after doing nothing but read about WDs for nearly a month that quite a few people do state that the most acute unbearable symptoms did start to clear at about 6 weeks so considering the length of time I have been off the SSRI now would probably not want to reinstate at the tiny dose you advise for another 2 or 3 weeks in case the worst of mine start to clear then. However I also realise that the later I leave it may compromise the possibility of reinstatement working at all. So I'm in a bit of a quandary what to do. What I do like is that you mention only restoring 1mg of the dose rather than 20 or the full 40mg. That does sound better fir the morale. I have used prn benzios, benedryl and even co-codamol to try to sleep but have not used any of those for a week as I have reached a point where I want no more pharma poisons in my system. Funnily enough I am mote likely to use a very moderate amount of alcohol (no more than 2 small bottles of beer on a night) to achieve sleep although sone people have said that alcohol risks inflating the symptoms the next day, I just feel it is more natural and in real time you know what it does to you moodwise. Although I'd say the most excruciating of the akathisia was during the first 2 weeks of the acute WDs I am still finding the waking in torment early every morning with a body almost pulsing with raised cortisol levels the hardest to deal with now. I am having to work through WDs in a 'people' job and mornings are sheer hell having a paranoia that people can detect something seriously amiss with me at the moment added to the mix. That and the lack of appetite. For years I have tried to achieve my ideal weight of around 180 lbs but have owing to WD weight loss gone past this and am getting worried about being underweight. Never thought I'd have that problem again 😕 ! This is all hell on earth, not what I wanted at age 57 and clearly happening to tens of thousands of people worldwide. Surely the dam holding back the anger from those with ruined lives cannot hold forever. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 3, 2022 Author Share Posted December 3, 2022 And after all that I missed out an important question - what us the best way to divide up fluoxetibe to get a 1 or 2mg dosage as I used to take them in 20mg doses. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 6, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) Hi KingPrawn, Yes, get your signature done. Please. Are you presently on any other drugs? I think you said about 10 weeks off completely now, off the Prozac. Sorry about your Mom's health deteriorating and the additional that goes with that. I don't think I would hesitate about trying a reinstatement then, if I were you. If just 10 weeks out. Best to do the reinstatement immediately upon noticing symptoms. And so.....it may help quite a bit. It may take up to a week, or slightly more than that........again, due to the long half life, and then possibly the time it takes to build up a nice steady state......to notice any improvement in WD symptoms, but I think you might be a good candidate for reinstatement. You have many options with Prozac and getting a 2 mg dosage, say, to start. Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) here's that informational link again ^. I would go with a liquid, either make your own, or a commercial brand. That might be easiest. If you still have 20 mg tablets or capsules you could make your own liquid from them, and make a nice 1 mg per 1 mL solution. Scroll down in the topic, and you'll find more about this, and then also additional links to topics of help. And maybe another member who is tapering or who has reinstated Prozac will stop by here too. Once you reinstate that small dosage, you stay put with it, and if helpful,after several months then begin to taper again.....but this time you would just go down 10% from each previous dosage.......even at the littler doses. If you do reinstate, please report back and keep us updated. Daily is great if/when reinstating. Take your 2 mg dose at the same time, each day. Keep some notes going for yourself, and then you can share them with us too when or if asked. That keeps things objective and can be so helpful. See: Recording drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress On 12/3/2022 at 9:02 AM, KingPrawn said: This is all hell on earth, not what I wanted at age 57 and clearly happening to tens of thousands of people worldwide. Surely the dam holding back the anger from those with ruined lives cannot hold forever. Slowly but surely progress is being made. Of course not fast enough that it reached your prescriber or mine in time to help us. Thankful you are here now though KingP. I know it's not easy, but congrats on working while having symptoms. And often symptoms are not what you ever presented with originally, they are amped up, exaggerated emotions and feelings. Hoping you enjoy some Windows even now. And some non-drug coping and topics that may be helpful: Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms Obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD: Repetitive intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors Ways to cope with daily anxiety Early morning waking- managing the morning cortisol spike (and if need be, when clicking the links and when you get to the topic, .....scroll up and start with the first post in topic) Okay, keep your chin up......you are doing it and doing good so far. L, P, H, and G, mmt Edited December 6, 2022 by manymoretodays 1 Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
LetsGoBuffalo Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 I started withdrawing at 2 months and tried to stick it out thinking it might have peaked. That was the wrong decision and I ended up reinstating after 3.5 months. My advice is to reinstate before it gets to the point where you are bedridden. I got a prescription for liquid Prozac and started taking .5ml (2mg equivalent) and started noticing some of the symptoms go away within a day or two. Anxiety and panic is still there but it’s more manageable and I can function. 2 2011 - 2013: Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2011 - 2019: Prozac 30mg 2019 - 2020: Prozac 20mg 2020 - 2022: Prozac 10mg 08/22 - 11/26/22: 0mg Prozac 11/27/22 - Present: reinstated 2mg Prozac due to severe withdrawal symptoms Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 10, 2022 Author Share Posted December 10, 2022 Many thanks for your very useful and very welcome replies 'Many More Todays' and 'Let's Go Buffalo". I'm still hanging in here. And as you advise reinstatement sounds like the only option. The fact that you are recommending such a small reinstatement appeals to me as I didn't really want any more of the poison back inside me so reinstating 20mg or other larger amounts would have psychologically seemed even more damaging to my already completely flattened mood. I'm going to have to go for making my own liquid up as I believe it is not possible to get readymade prozac where I'm located. I was going to give myself 6 weeks before starting as a few people have said that they felt terrible at 4 weeks but things started to get better around 6-8 weeks but things are so intense and without hope at the monument I don't think I can hang on till then as I am especially as its far from guaranteed anyway. One mistake that I now know was extremely bad was to try to use alcohol - not in excess but just moderately to get me through this. Before this WD as I've said I hadn't touched alcohol for 4 years but in desperation I drank moderately a week ago. I had nothing on Thursday night but let myself have some beer (again in moderation) last night to get through a Friday night but woke up this morning feeling even lower than yesterday morning and of course as I should know from my drinking days even small amounts of alcohol can alter the mood the morning after and I think that's what I'm feeling now. So that's it with alcohol now - completely counter-productive. I have some 'as needed' diazepam which I use exceedingly sparingly on a day when I know I have an extra stressful day at work. I also have Benadryl too but am loathe to use that as it is of course related to the SSRI's although obviously far weaker and the less of that the better. Especially with me reintroducing the prozac to eventually taper. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 10, 2022 Author Share Posted December 10, 2022 On 11/26/2022 at 3:17 AM, manymoretodays said: ell:About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms I might only reinstate with 1 or 2 mg of Prozac, while keeping objective notes, and seeing if it helped at all. It might take the edge off, or might not. This way we don't risk any hypersensitivity reactions, which can sometimes occur in those with drug histories like yours. And we are happy to discuss this more with you. How we might have helped you come off the Prozac, in a harm reduction way: Why taper by 10% of my dose? Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) If you do reinstate a small amount of Prozac, then ^ will be helpful in getting the small doses required, so......worth a look at I've decided the 1or 2mg prozac reinstatement in self made up liquid form is what I'm going to try to start things off - as i don't know how much longer I can live with the intensity of my current symptoms - as I've mentioned I'm a locum (contract) worker and only get paid when I go to work and if the WDs get much worse and I cannot work and I lose my home...I have another couple of questions. How long would I remain on the 2mg solution and what would the next dosage be if this one has helped and stabilised things? Thank you. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Mentor mstimc Posted December 10, 2022 Mentor Share Posted December 10, 2022 Hi KingPrawn I'll leave the tapering advice to those more knowledgeable, but one thing I want to share is to not blame yourself for what you're going through, or what your anxious mind is telling you that you've put others through. Excessive guilt is another side effect of WD, and serves no purpose other than to keep you in a constant state of negativity. Its one of the ways your anxious mind maintains control. You made decisions based on others' advice and the information you had at the time. When the thoughts come, treat them for what they are--just random thoughts created by a hyper-sensitized nervous system. Tim C Started Paxil for GAD in 1999 Unsuccessful taper attempt in 2006 Paxilprogress helped with a successful taper completed in 2009 Using therapy and CBT to manage my anxiety Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 10, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 10, 2022 8 hours ago, KingPrawn said: I've decided the 1or 2mg prozac reinstatement in self made up liquid form is what I'm going to try to start things off - as i don't know how much longer I can live with the intensity of my current symptoms - as I've mentioned I'm a locum (contract) worker and only get paid when I go to work and if the WDs get much worse and I cannot work and I lose my home...I have another couple of questions. How long would I remain on the 2mg solution and what would the next dosage be if this one has helped and stabilised things? Thank you. Hi there, If it was me, I'd start with 2 mg and give it a full week at least, to see if you feel any improvement. If none, no improvement, then and only then would I increase the dosage. Now keep in mind that stability isn't likely going to be feeling perfect, feeling great, and absolutely no WD symptoms. Hopefully this helps keep your symptoms the same day to day, and tolerable. You'd still need to use some non-drug coping to cope. Stability notes on stability, and just what to expect, as you'll still be in WD.......just hopefully not as intensely. Give it at least a week, and maybe just over that, before even considering going up in dose. If you feel markedly worse, stop the reinstatement. If 2 mg seems to be the charm, and you feel a bit better, then you HOLD there for months even, and then when ready, taper down using the 10% rule, from that. And so.....it can be really good to have grips on how your symptoms are in each day now. Keeping notes, when they are worst, when they are better, what else is going on, etc. etc. We'd welcome seeing some too, posted, and especially as you reinstate. Recording drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress and then: Keep notes on paper and then share them here too. And that's fine to make your own. People have been doing that for quite some time. Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) just scroll down to the bolded line, "making your own fluoxetine liquid", in the above topic I'm kind of sorry you have waited to reinstate, based on ? others reports of their experiences? or I'm not sure. It sounds like you feel awful, with WD symptoms now. Please keep us updated. Can you check in more often? Just even briefly? WD stinks......we are here to help. Lot's of people going through the same symptoms, and then sharing ideas around non-drug coping too. Okay. Fingers crossed, that this helps, even a little bit......it will be worth the try KP. I think it will. L, P, H, and G, mmt 1 Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 Thank you so much for your prompt reply ManyMoreTodays . I will be following your instructions starting sometime this week when my px is due. Although I have been off the prozac some months now when I go to pick up my other meds (blood pressure tablets) they haves continued to supply the fluoxetine too - probably until the meds payment plan expires for the year I've paid. I left them in the pharmacist since I came off them but will pick them up this time seeing as I now need them again to taper! I'll try to be more regular on my replies - and tell the site of any developments. I did momentarily feel slightly better yesterday - still not capable of doing anything but fighting to get through the day though with the idea of leaving my house filling me with dread. Tomorrow to get to work I will probably use 2 mg diazepam. Hopefully this will only be needed tomorrow this week just to help me start another fraught week at work. As an aside after the initial first two weeks symptoms were over I plunged straight into working out every night (exercise bike) but unlike at any other time in my life I was so low that I actually felt even more anxious afterwards so I think I'll need mo9re time before the endorphins are equal to the task of making me feel better. One final point I drunk two cups of coffee (and as usual with me even before the Was this was decaf) and I think even the small amount of caffeine ingested has affected me very adversely as I feel worse than I for days today. So refraining from coffee is another lesson I've learnt to go with the abstinence from alcohol while these symptoms carry on at least. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 Update: As instructed I'll try to give regular updates on my changing WD situation. I'm awaiting starting my reinstatement on Friday when I pick my script up. Today I woke up for the first time since the WDs started without a significant cortisol spike and managed to stay asleep until around 7.30. As I mentioned yesterday I was going to use diazepam to get me back into work for the new week. I used 5 mg last night to help with sleep rather than this morning to help me at work. I try to use the benzos as little as possible but sometimes no more than twice a week they seem the lesser of 2 evils. Today I haven't felt half as agitated and anxious as usual but am still consumed by a feeling of utter dread and doom garnished with some mild paranoia. Depression far worse than I had before I touched the ADs also crushing me. I now prefer to remain free of all supplements although when in the utter eyes of the storm of the WDs when I was living from minute to minute I sent off for all kinds of things- which either were started briefly and then stopped or never touched at all. Except for the reinstatement of the fluoxetine I want to be taking as little as I can whether pharmaceutical or 'natural' supplements. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 12, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 12, 2022 4 hours ago, KingPrawn said: Today I woke up for the first time since the WDs started without a significant cortisol spike and managed to stay asleep until around 7.30. As I mentioned yesterday I was going to use diazepam to get me back into work for the new week. I used 5 mg last night to help with sleep rather than this morning to help me at work. I try to use the benzos as little as possible but sometimes no more than twice a week they seem the lesser of 2 evils. Today I haven't felt half as agitated and anxious as usual but am still consumed by a feeling of utter dread and doom garnished with some mild paranoia. Depression far worse than I had before I touched the ADs also crushing me. Hi King, Get the Valium in your signature please. AccountSettings/updates/edits When started, date, usual dose, and be careful. Even with intermittent usage sometimes dependency can occur. AND each dose of diazepam last like forever(sorry, exaggerating) a long time. And so as it wears off finally, you might feel symptoms again. Sometimes only 2 weeks, of even intermittent usage for the physiological dependency to occur, with benzos. Get it in your notes too. And then how often have you used it even twice a week? Just go sparing. I know it is tough in more ways than we know right now for you. Awesom on sleeping until 7:30 and no cortisol spike. Woohoo......that's good. Like I say.....you may get hit again, when the diazepam is out of your system. It has the longest half life of them all. Maybe the dread is from the diazepam even......what a trade off, huh? Okay, and I'm excited for your try at reinstatement.......it may be real helpful. I sure hope so. Thanks for posting. L, P, H, and G, mmt Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 17 hours ago, manymoretodays said: Hi King, Get the Valium in your signature please. AccountSettings/updates/edits When started, date, usual dose, and be careful. Even with intermittent usage sometimes dependency can occur. AND each dose of diazepam last like forever(sorry, exaggerating) a long time. And so as it wears off finally, you might feel symptoms again. Sometimes only 2 weeks, of even intermittent usage for the physiological dependency to occur, with benzos. Get it in your notes too. And then how often have you used it even twice a week? Just go sparing. I know it is tough in more ways than we know right now for you. Awesom on sleeping until 7:30 and no cortisol spike. Woohoo......that's good. Like I say.....you may get hit again, when the diazepam is out of your system. It has the longest half life of them all. Maybe the dread is from the diazepam even......what a trade off, huh? Okay, and I'm excited for your try at reinstatement.......it may be real helpful. I sure hope so. Thanks for posting. L, P, H, and G, mmt Thank you for your reply. Yes I realise the dangers of diazepam hence the use of it maybe once a week.currently. this being just to help with thecstart if each week at work. Again no real cortisol.spike this morning and again slept till 7.30 is. Less dread today but felt extremely anxious all morning. Although now it's gone 13.00 this seems to be getting less. I don't know if it's too early for me to be speaking if Windows and waves but generally yesterday especially layer in the day felt like a very small window although I was worried I was ceashing into a wave this morning although may have just been my default mental state in WD returning after the slight upturn yesterday. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 Update- I had a couple of good days earlier in the week but the last two have been back to as things were in the earlier stages of WD. However the cortisol spike is no longer enough to wake me up around 4 and its only around 7.30 when I know I need to be up for work that my agitation levels begin to rise - however once they do they become very unpleasant very quickly and I have the paradoxical reaction of wanting to stay in the haven of my bed but actually feeling slightly better once I'm up and doing things. Although things improve once I'm immersed in my job and with people (I live alone) the doomy, nothing will ever be worthwhile again feeling remains a constant. For the last few days there has been another crash when I get in from work which has become slightly more manageable once I've eaten my evening meal.Maybe blood sugar implicated here? I was going to try reinstating fluoxetine at I or 2mg today and had bought the oral syringe and measuring beaker to do this by making my own solution. However I am now putting this off til after Christmas as I am visiting my mother for the holiday and with there being a chance that the reinstatement won't work and could make me feel even worse I can't risk this happening when I'm away at Christmas. I'm still unsure what to reinstate with when I do I will probably start at 1mg owing to it being less to actually taper of if this small amount helps and also because I can just double it to 2mg if 1 doesn't work - obviously if it makes me feel worse I will scrap reinstatement in line with the SA instructions and somehow continue to muddle on in the full grip of these WDs. Although my quality of life currently is absolutely dire I have still noticed a few positives if getting of the ADs. The unsettling dreams that I had literally every night in the 7 years I was on the ADs have disappeared (the bad dreams were a major reason for me coming off the meds) . I also after losing a stone in the first couple of wks WD when nausea etc made it impossible to eat have now managed to eat and sometimes eat but have not put as much weight back on as I eould have thought so the weight gaining properties if the ADs have been largely mitigated. If the reinstatement doesn't work I am left with having to bulldoze on through this nightmare but obviously don't have a clue whether I'll still be suffering like this in 3 years or more or will be mire fortunate and be one of the many who seem from my nonstop reading on AD WDs get better within the period of 3-9 months after stopping them. It seems that this may be the most common trajectory for those who suffer unpleasant withdrawal but as has been commented on by many others once people weather the storm we do not hear from many WD sufferers again. To think that I only went on this awful medication in order to I hoped clean up a few lingering effects of OCD and the damage it had wrought on my mental state. I'd give anything for just having to put up with those relatively minor issues now - after all I'd lived with them for 30-35 years up til the point I thought I'd try an AD! Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 Well things have taken such a terrible course in the last 2 or 3 days - literally anxiety, agitation, intrusive thoughts so intense that I was considering taking myself to A&E to stop myself basically going completely mad - that I knew I needed some relief or at least a chance of lessening the terror if even by a tiny amount. So tonight after reading everything I could on here about the pros and cons of it I've gone down the reinstatement route. I took 2mg of fluoxetine from a solution I made up myself. I was going to try to last till after Christmas in case it makes me feel even worse but I didn't think I could last that long. I'm still working if I don't I don't get paid, lose my house lose everything and how I'm still doing that after 6 weeks of this I don't know. I only have 40mg tablets so I dissolved one in 40ml of water and took 2 ml using an oral syringe. The rest was thrown away I'll just make up a new solution each day. The idea that I've just put the evil substance Fluoxetine back in my body even at a 2mg per day amount fills me with disillusion and fear but I didn't think I had any option. What swayed me is that I was on 40mg and this is only 2mg - if it works to make living with this even an iota more bearable I'll live with that to stabilise before getting on the 10% taper. I will not take any greater amount of fluoxetine (or any other SSRI) because the side effects - nightmares, lack of emotions, not realising I was wasting year after year of my life etc were just too depressing and frightening to want to go any nearer than 2mg ever again. If things get worse over the next 3 or 4 days I believe it takes to get the full effect I'll come straight off if nothing happens good or bad I'll have to somehow find a way of living for a bit longer with what I've been feeling over the last 6 weeks - no way am I prepared to go above 2mg. Many people do somehow get through this hell without reinstating - it seems from what I've gathered from immersing myself in peoples AD WD stories over the last few weeks for most people the absolutely intense WD symptoms start to disappear between 3- 6 months I just have to hope I can be one of those. I had to use 5mg of diazepam last night as the anxiety did not lessen after early afternoon like usual and was as bad at 7.30 last night as it was in the morning. And I am very scared about starting this reinstatement so will probably use another 5mg diazepam tonight as taking the fluoxetine again has has left me with a horrible anxious depression that I don't think will lift tonight. I'll try and hold out as long as possible though earlier on getting up I thought I was going to need a diazepam to go to work but managed to hold off. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
LetsGoBuffalo Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 6 hours ago, KingPrawn said: Well things have taken such a terrible course in the last 2 or 3 days - literally anxiety, agitation, intrusive thoughts so intense that I was considering taking myself to A&E to stop myself basically going completely mad - that I knew I needed some relief or at least a chance of lessening the terror if even by a tiny amount. So tonight after reading everything I could on here about the pros and cons of it I've gone down the reinstatement route. I took 2mg of fluoxetine from a solution I made up myself. I was going to try to last till after Christmas in case it makes me feel even worse but I didn't think I could last that long. I'm still working if I don't I don't get paid, lose my house lose everything and how I'm still doing that after 6 weeks of this I don't know. I only have 40mg tablets so I dissolved one in 40ml of water and took 2 ml using an oral syringe. The rest was thrown away I'll just make up a new solution each day. The idea that I've just put the evil substance Fluoxetine back in my body even at a 2mg per day amount fills me with disillusion and fear but I didn't think I had any option. What swayed me is that I was on 40mg and this is only 2mg - if it works to make living with this even an iota more bearable I'll live with that to stabilise before getting on the 10% taper. I will not take any greater amount of fluoxetine (or any other SSRI) because the side effects - nightmares, lack of emotions, not realising I was wasting year after year of my life etc were just too depressing and frightening to want to go any nearer than 2mg ever again. If things get worse over the next 3 or 4 days I believe it takes to get the full effect I'll come straight off if nothing happens good or bad I'll have to somehow find a way of living for a bit longer with what I've been feeling over the last 6 weeks - no way am I prepared to go above 2mg. Many people do somehow get through this hell without reinstating - it seems from what I've gathered from immersing myself in peoples AD WD stories over the last few weeks for most people the absolutely intense WD symptoms start to disappear between 3- 6 months I just have to hope I can be one of those. I had to use 5mg of diazepam last night as the anxiety did not lessen after early afternoon like usual and was as bad at 7.30 last night as it was in the morning. And I am very scared about starting this reinstatement so will probably use another 5mg diazepam tonight as taking the fluoxetine again has has left me with a horrible anxious depression that I don't think will lift tonight. I'll try and hold out as long as possible though earlier on getting up I thought I was going to need a diazepam to go to work but managed to hold off. Don’t beat yourself up. If it was easy, this site wouldn’t exist. Focus on getting stabilized and then worry about coming off of Prozac. Life it too short to feel miserable. 2011 - 2013: Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2011 - 2019: Prozac 30mg 2019 - 2020: Prozac 20mg 2020 - 2022: Prozac 10mg 08/22 - 11/26/22: 0mg Prozac 11/27/22 - Present: reinstated 2mg Prozac due to severe withdrawal symptoms Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Addax Posted December 23, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 23, 2022 @KingPrawn I have been where you are. While I was reading about your experience I found it all too familiar. There’s a link in my drug history that tells the story. The one thing I will encourage you to do is follow the guidance the moderators offer. I didn’t then I did. I didn’t because I was so eager for it all to stop, and a day, even an hour felt to long to wait and jumped the gun with reinstatement. It worked, but I have no doubt that the large jump I made was unnecessary. It was much greater than the 2mg that is being recommended to you. I took a break for several years before starting again because the idea of being that debilitated while I was making some major life changes was too overwhelming. Then I found myself scared to try again. Finally, I did it anyway. This time I have gone very, very slow and it’s been going well. The worst part has been that I find myself anticipating that I’ll suddenly find myself in the dark depths of withdrawal again. I’m happy to say that a year in, there has been no darkness. There has been a glitch here and there, but it’s been tolerable. Unfortunately, I’m also in perimenopause, so I’m not always sure whether something is a withdrawal symptom or a symptom of perimenopause. I understand why you have so much trepidation about reinstating even that tiny amount, and just wanting no part of what put you where you are now. But reinstatement isn’t starting all over and you can start tapering again when you’re feeling okay doing so. And you can do it in a way that won’t feel quite so horrible. I encourage you to take advantage of the well informed advices the moderators give you. 🙂 1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg (with a few stops and starts) Fall 2012: Returned to 40mg after discontinuing and horrid withdrawal Fall 2013: 40mg Fluoxetine, added 150mg Wellbutrin to treat fatigue Winter 2014: Attempting to taper both (too fast) April 2014: 9mg Fluoxetine + 37.5 Wellbutrin Summer 2014: 8 mg Fluoxetine + 0 Wellbutrin (way too fast a drop) Late summer/Early Fall 2014: Debilitating Withdrawal symptoms Fall 2014 - Wellbutrin successfully kicked to the curb but… Oct- Dec 2014: Panicked reinstatement of Fluoxetine ->30mg - held for 5yrs Jan 2021: taper to 20mg Fluoxetine then tapering by 1mg every 2-3 months Fall 2022 - held at 10mg->December 2022: 9mg->Feb 2023: 8mg ->March 2023: brassmonkey slide begins: 7.8mg -> 7.6 -> 7.4->2 week hold (April)->7.2->7mg->6.8->2 week hold->6.6-> 1-month hold ->(June)-6.5->4-week hold-> (July)-6.4 (discontinued brassmonkey slide and slowed taper)-> (Aug)-6.2->(Sept)-6.0->(Oct)-5.9->(Nov)-5.8->(Dec)-5.7->wave!->(Jan)-5.8->(Feb)-6mg and holding. My 2014 withdrawal experience: https://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/ Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Big thanks to Addax and Buffalo for taking the time to give me the kind if advice and encouragement that is so gratefully received as I try to get through the day hour to hour. I'm determined to press on with this reinstatement the only nagging thought about that is that I've noticed others who reinstated small did amounts as small as 0.5 or 1mg and maybe I should have started at reinstating 1mg and seen how that went - however I'm unsure if they were taking prozac so maybe 0.5 for instance is too small a dose to reinstate prozac. Well I managed to avoid taking the diazepam last night because as is often the case the evening was (slightly) more bearable. I'm finding the adrenalin/cortisol wired body where I can feel the blood pumping and know how unhealthy feeling this wound up at 57 with high blood pressure one of the hardest things to deal with. It is there from early morning befire I get up to at least mid day even on a good day and in the last few days doesn't even go completely in the afternoon. If I can get rid of this I feel the rest would be easier to deal with. I noticed aspirin has tested results saying it lowers cortisol and though wary if trying anything extra with aspirin not crossing the blood brain barrier and the test results seeming persuasive I may give this a try. One thing putting me off though is few on SA with the cortisol spike seem to take aspirin. However I feel that the cortisol spike diminishing could have a knock on effect on other allied symptoms. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 23, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 23, 2022 Hi KingPrawn, When did you start the reinstatement? Date. Dose? On 12/10/2022 at 3:45 PM, manymoretodays said: And so.....it can be really good to have grips on how your symptoms are in each day now. Keeping notes, when they are worst, when they are better, what else is going on, etc. etc. We'd welcome seeing some too, posted, and especially as you reinstate. Recording drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress and then: Keep notes on paper and then share them here too. And that's fine to make your own. People have been doing that for quite some time. Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine) just scroll down to the bolded line, "making your own fluoxetine liquid", in the above topic And are you traveling now? Still in the midst of a loved ones illness? Do try some NOTES please, as asked above. 🙂 You'll be amazed at how much more objective this all becomes. And I really want to see what is up before and after you take your dose. As well as what happens throughout the day and night. Example: DATE: 6 a.m. Woke with anxiety 8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro 10 a.m. Stomach is upset 10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast 11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour 12:35 p.m. Ate lunch 4 p.m. Feel a bit better 5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro 6 p.m. Ate dinner 9:20 p.m. Headache 10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel 10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy 10:30 p.m. Fell asleep 2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien") 2:45 a.m. Fell asleep 4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep It may be a full week or more until we notice if the reinstatement is helping at all. And during that week, it is important to minimize any changes in timing or dosage, or doing any other drug or supplement additions. You know this. You are nervous about it all. And wonderful support from the members. Thank you Addax and LetsGoBuffalo.......so awesome. Happy holidays all. Never alone. We have to stick together to make it.......even if that is just virtually. L, P, H, and G, mmt Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 Thanks for your thoughtful reply MMT its very much appreciated After starting the 2mg reinstatement I read further posts on here and noticed that those whose WDs seemed to indicate a hypersensitive nervous system were particularly warmed about reinstatement - all my worse symptoms anxiety, agitation, OCD intrusive thoughts etc seem to indicate this. I noticed that the people I was reading about were advised/chose themselves to reinstate at as little as 1mg or even 0.75mg. After mulling this over for a bit and also adding that there'd be less to taper from After 2 days I changed the amount I'm reinstating to 1mg. I've probably done something incorrect changing After 2 days but I'm petrified of kindling etc Anyway as you requested MMT I'll start noting any changes in my mental state as this reinstatement progress. Within not much 2 days I thought I detected a very slight improvement but of course a part of me ss also wondering if this would have happened after this amount of time from my fast taper in the autumn anyway regardless of the RI. Today after 4 days of RI I had less of the pounding heart and hyper vigilance on waking and til at least early afternoon which I lived with for 6 weeks. Things are extra fraught currently as I am caring for and stayibg with my 89 year old bedridden mother throughout the Christmas holiday who lives nearly 300 miles from me. So it's hard for me to get a baseline of sny changes since the RI which will only be possible when I'm back at work from Wednesday. I've been ruminating wildly on absolutely everything since during the last 2 days with the ruminations continually fighting each other in a seeming desperate attempt to outdo each other with the degree of awfulness they come up with. I am vaguely paranoid I am also fixated on the mess I've made of my life- it was to deal with these thoughts that I originally took the ADs and I was less preoccupied with these thoughts to the extent of wasting another 4 or so as they deprived me of any motivation and emotion. Now these thoughts are worse than ever but I'm wiling to put up with these than go back to the fools paradise (!) of being on ADs. I also confess to having drunk two bottles of beer yesterday and 2 today which I know is a strict no no in WDs but I did this rather than use diazepam - psych meds to me these days really are the last option. I thought with being cooped up for 4 days over Christmas would be the one time where I needed some relief as I was climbing the walls. I've always had problems crying but have noticed that since the WDs started although not really breaking down on tears I have been teary eyed and on the verge of tears more regularly than since I was a young child. And yesterday I was so overcome with thoughts of my wasted life, talking to my mother about how I think I let her and my late father down and excruciating low mood that I broke down in front of her and bawled my eyes out. It could be a result of the intense depression and anxiety I'm feeling but I also thought could gave been a sign of my brain recovering its ability to feel emotion but because of 7 years on SSRIs lurching back into emotion in a haphazard and unregulated way. I'll end with some notes for today - unusual day being Christmas day! 10.00 got up - I'd woken up at 7 or 8 but less pounding heart today and the over energised feet and lower legs I've had since the WDs started. 13.00 light meal - had had no appetite for anything earlier or more substantial Afternoon - constant hellish rumination left house briefly to visit garage to buy things we needed intrusive OCD thoughts also lurking to fill in any moment when the ruminations briefly disappear. I've lived with virtually untreated OCD for nearly 40 years but never to anywhere near the degree I've been assailed by it since the AD WDs kicked in. 6.00 1mg fluoxetine via oral syringe 6.30 another light meal - no real appetite 8.00 two bottles of beer Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 26, 2022 Author Share Posted December 26, 2022 13.00 went to bed listened to YouTube videos and fell asleep about 2.30am 9.00 got up - return of morning agitation/cortisol spike to levels of a few days ago - however realise it could be the after effects of those two beers - thosebeers will be the last alcohol I drink - I know that sounds "anyone can say that" but till the WDs struck I hadn't had any alcohol for around 4 years so knowing it only chills me out for a few hours at the expense of at least a couple of days negative effects afterwards as well as preventing me knowing where I am exactly with the reibstatement/wds in general I truly mean it this time. 11.00 went out to a neighbouring town to do some shopping for my mother 13.30 back home to my mums flat got her her lunch Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 27, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2022 (edited) Oh good. Thank you for your efforts. Can you get some dates at the top and then just post one day in one post, when you have a new one ready. You can also do another post/reply with some of the narratives too. That works. These are a bit confusing to look at or interpet right now. Skip the beer altogether! That'll likely throw you for the next week or so. Seriously. Just find something else......something healthy. Don't beat yourself up over it. Just quit. Temporarily. Here's our topic: Alcohol: wine and beer Do you like herbal teas? Mild? With honey? Come up with something.......you'll be able to. Look at the benefits of ACV-Apple Cider Vinegar too. Get lost in finding new, healthier things now: My goodness, you've got extenuating factors right now too. I'll be glad too, when you are home again, and back at work. Stick with same time, same dose now of your Prozac. And okay on the 1 mg reinstatement dosage now. Try for as much timeliness as you can with other stuff too......your bedtime, your eating times, etc. It will help if you can pull it off.... to stay regimented and in a routine. Good distractions and a change of scene on the positive? Right? Okay. I am watching, I cannot always post or am not always in a spot to post/reply. I am at least every couple of days anyway. All things considered. You are doing super KingPrawn. Keep up the good work. Throw out the beer though! And best, L, P, H, and G, mmt Edited December 27, 2022 by manymoretodays link, grammar Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 27, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2022 Early-morning waking-managing the morning corisol spike Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 23 hours ago, manymoretodays said: Oh good. Thank you for your efforts. Can you get some dates at the top and then just post one day in one post, when you have a new one ready. You can also do another post/reply with some of the narratives too. That works. These are a bit confusing to look at or interpet right now. Once again thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me it's really appreciated. They were distractions but also seeing my mum like this makes me feel very sad as it would have even before the WD's. However I made my self go out for a walk on the beach near my mother's house Monday afternoon after I sent the timetable for that day. Unfortunately since I've had these WD's I've found any vigorous exercise actually makes me feel worse for a bit afterwards - so different from the buzz I used to get when I exercised before withdrawal! Monday's walk didn't really make me feel worse just not that much better. I drink chamomile tea which I think helps a bit. I don't go near caffeine now - I've always been sensitive to it and this is now extending even to chocolate while I'm in the eye of the WD storm. Tuesday 27th December 10.00 woke and got up - extreme low mood, more cortisol spike - mum struggling to get back to bed after care worker got her up and she almost fell so very stressful felt far worse than I have for days today. 18.00 took 1mg fluoxetine of self-made solution 18.50 drove home 23.00 arrived home - mood slightly better than earlier - almost normal as is often the case by that time of night. try to put off going to sleep to ward off the horrors of the next day - I went to sleep listening to youtube videos on phone as usual since these WD's have been around Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 Wednesday 28th December 7.00 woke up despite cortisol spike - I use an eye mask which helps a bit. 8.00 got up - because I drag myself up I lie in that awful state that many on here have commented on - too anxious to stay in bed even if I could but scared of getting up and facing the world 9.00 arrive at work - horrible day every attempt at communication with colleagues an effort as my mind was just a mass of churning ruminations, intrusive thoughts. Cortisol spike adrenalising my body terribly till early afternoon. 18.00 1mg fluoxetine 18.30 went to bed for a rest as it felt safer than trying to stay up on getting in - also warmer! 19.30 Back up - watching youtube documentaries - I can no longer listen to music or even read that well since the AD's struck - these documentaries and discussions are all that seem to vaguely distract me. Feel the best I've felt today - which isn't saying much I'm afraid! Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Mentor mstimc Posted December 29, 2022 Mentor Share Posted December 29, 2022 4 hours ago, KingPrawn said: However I made my self go out for a walk on the beach near my mother's house Monday afternoon after I sent the timetable for that day. King, you're doing really well. The more you perform ordinary daily things like this, the more you will reduce your anxious response to them. This is the basis of ERP--exposure and response prevention. Your anxious mind, combined the with physical effects of WD, tries to limit your activities to only the things it defines as "safe". This is why so many people try to close themselves off from any form of stimulation; they are literally anxious about nothing--just the fear of something. Doing small things like walking is a great way to reconnect with reality, and is something you can build on as you recover. Tim C Started Paxil for GAD in 1999 Unsuccessful taper attempt in 2006 Paxilprogress helped with a successful taper completed in 2009 Using therapy and CBT to manage my anxiety Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 Thank you very much for your response mstimc. Yes I'm trying to make myself do things - I'm still working - I have no option in that area as I'm a contractor worker but like you imply even if I could just hide myself away this would only make things worse. The weird thing is and I know many say this is that mornings are sheer hell but by evening I almost feel normal but knowing il be back to square one in the morning. I had a fair amount of sugary drink yesterday so that probably won't have helped and like caffeine and alcoho sugar is sonething I'm going to exclude from my life from now on. Halfway through a working morning and still feel awful. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 Having the worst day since the initial WD symptoms struck back in mid November today - every bad psychological symptom back and exagerrared horribly. It's making me realise how I had improved marginally over the last 4 or 5 weeks. I'm worried it may mean that the small reinstatement I've been on for a week isn't working becsuse my CNS is too over sensitised - I realised this was a risk after 3 months off the ADs, especially with the watery diarrhoea returning for the first time since the first few days of WDs. I'm in a real dilemma now because today is intolerable. I've evem been thinking of jacking evrything in job, house (mortgage) and so losing everything and running away - I don't know where to though! My thoughts today and mood are excruciating it's now 15.30 and ive had little if any of the usual afternoon improvement. I tried to avoid all sugar products when I bought my lunch earlier and something for tonight but noticed nearly evrything has sugar in it - even meat dishes - it's ridiculous who puts sugar in a main meal?! I don't feel up to cooking anything which isn't a convenience meal at the moment so it's a real problem. And I definitely want to avoid sugar as I now am alcohol and caffeine. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Mentor mstimc Posted December 29, 2022 Mentor Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 minute ago, KingPrawn said: I'm in a real dilemma now because today is intolerable. I've evem been thinking of jacking evrything in job, house (mortgage) and so losing everything and running away - I don't know where to though! KP, first, accept that the thoughts will come, but they're only thoughts. I think I've mentioned before I compared the feeling to being a trapped animal. Your desire to run away is totally understandable but its the natural reaction of your primitive brain--the fight or flight instinct--that's reacting to your thoughts. But your thoughts are just those--thoughts--and only have as much power as they're given. I, too, had to work while going through WD and recovery, and it was often a daily struggle. Its actually therapeutic, if you can concentrate on the job at hand and let the negative thinking take a back seat for a while. Not only does it help you to focus and calm you, but your primitive brain realizes there really isn't anything to fear if you can consciously push the thoughts to the background, even temporarily. Try to find something productive or positive to focus your thoughts and see if that brings at least a little relief. Be kind to yourself! Tim C Started Paxil for GAD in 1999 Unsuccessful taper attempt in 2006 Paxilprogress helped with a successful taper completed in 2009 Using therapy and CBT to manage my anxiety Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 Many thanks for your reply MSTIMC and the cheering words it contains. I completely agree that despite the horror of having to rouse myself to work in the middle of this even if I could take time off sick this would invariably be counter productive as I would just give myself yet more time to torture myself with my ruminations. Once again thank you so much for taking the time out to give me your advice. If I could only put the clock back to the day bout 7 years ago when I went into my GPs to get some ADs to help with some relatively minor situational depression I had back then. I'd give anything to be that 'depressed' again😒 Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
Mentor mstimc Posted December 29, 2022 Mentor Share Posted December 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, KingPrawn said: If I could only put the clock back to the day bout 7 years ago when I went into my GPs to get some ADs to help with some relatively minor situational depression I had back then. I'd give anything to be that 'depressed' again I used to focus on the "what-ifs" too. Eventually I decided I needed to focus on what I could learn and how I could benefit from my experience. I learned not to rely on anything external, like a pill, to help me with my anxiety and OCD. Once I accepted my own thoughts and fears were limiting me, I really worked on practicing CBT and ERP to manage them. Sometimes, are brains are just wired differently and we react more anxiously to some things than other people do. Its doesn't make us weak or defective, any more than having any other manageable condition does. Looking back, I benefitted because my experience made me more empathetic to others' suffering. Its one of the reason I joined SA, so I could help others on their journeys to recovery. Tim C Started Paxil for GAD in 1999 Unsuccessful taper attempt in 2006 Paxilprogress helped with a successful taper completed in 2009 Using therapy and CBT to manage my anxiety Link to comment
LetsGoBuffalo Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 hour ago, KingPrawn said: Having the worst day since the initial WD symptoms struck back in mid November today - every bad psychological symptom back and exagerrared horribly. It's making me realise how I had improved marginally over the last 4 or 5 weeks. I'm worried it may mean that the small reinstatement I've been on for a week isn't working becsuse my CNS is too over sensitised - I realised this was a risk after 3 months off the ADs, especially with the watery diarrhoea returning for the first time since the first few days of WDs. I'm in a real dilemma now because today is intolerable. I've evem been thinking of jacking evrything in job, house (mortgage) and so losing everything and running away - I don't know where to though! My thoughts today and mood are excruciating it's now 15.30 and ive had little if any of the usual afternoon improvement. I tried to avoid all sugar products when I bought my lunch earlier and something for tonight but noticed nearly evrything has sugar in it - even meat dishes - it's ridiculous who puts sugar in a main meal?! I don't feel up to cooking anything which isn't a convenience meal at the moment so it's a real problem. And I definitely want to avoid sugar as I now am alcohol and caffeine. Keep in mind, Prozac take a long time to get out of your body, and a long time to see the benefits (4-8 weeks). Here’s a little tidbit that has helped me a ton. While you’re feeling well, write down some reassuring thoughts. I made a “note” in my phone that has some things set in reality of my “normal” brain and not my anxious brain so I can easily access it whenever. Examples: This is uncomfortable, but it’s not dangerous It doesn’t last forever You aren’t dieing Analyze your symptoms one by one, it’s all from the cortisol spike Its very difficult to unlock rational thinking while you’re in the heat of the moment. Having something that you wrote to yourself is very beneficial. 2011 - 2013: Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2011 - 2019: Prozac 30mg 2019 - 2020: Prozac 20mg 2020 - 2022: Prozac 10mg 08/22 - 11/26/22: 0mg Prozac 11/27/22 - Present: reinstated 2mg Prozac due to severe withdrawal symptoms Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 3 hours ago, mstimc said: I used to focus on the "what-ifs" too. Eventually I decided I needed to focus on what I could learn and how I could benefit from my experience. I learned not to rely on anything external, like a pill, to help me with my anxiety and OCD. Once I accepted my own thoughts and fears were limiting me, I really worked on practicing CBT and ERP to manage them. Sometimes, are brains are just wired differently and we react more anxiously to some things than other people do. Its doesn't make us weak or defective, any more than having any other manageable condition does. Looking back, I benefitted because my experience made me more empathetic to others' suffering. Its one of the reason I joined SA, so I could help others on their journeys to recovery. Like you I'll definitely not be using any pills in future. Maybe I'll try CBT again - I'll tried it briefly before but don't think I was honest enough to make it work for me - probably already had my mind set on trying medication instead for my problems. You and others like you on here are amazing people using your experiences to help us further back on the recovery trail - without this site things would look even darker. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 3 hours ago, LetsGoBuffalo said: Keep in mind, Prozac take a long time to get out of your body, and a long time to see the benefits (4-8 weeks). Here’s a little tidbit that has helped me a ton. While you’re feeling well, write down some reassuring thoughts. I made a “note” in my phone that has some things set in reality of my “normal” brain and not my anxious brain so I can easily access it whenever. Examples: This is uncomfortable, but it’s not dangerous It doesn’t last forever You aren’t dieing Analyze your symptoms one by one, it’s all from the cortisol spike Its very difficult to unlock rational thinking while you’re in the heat of the moment. Having something that you wrote to yourself is very beneficial. Thanks for that Buffalo - I have been noting stuff since this started but positives like that on my phone is not something I've done yet but could come in very useful when I'm verging on panic especially during the day. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
KingPrawn Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 Thursday 29th December 6.30 woke up with the usual hyper energisation but managed to stay half asleep till about 7.30 usual fear of getting up and leaving the 'safety' of my bed but by the time I get up probably feeling worse the longer I remain the usual cortisol spike is unbearable today. Tremulous over - a real effort to interact with people at work - and unfortunately my job includes a lot of interaction with the public too! 10.30 forced a snack down was impossible too have anything earlier - vaguely nauseous at the thought 13.00 - not let up today with the cortisol force some food down realising that even before any WDs hunger could have an unpleasant effect on my mood 15.30 got home and felt so bereft that I went and lay in bed half asleep 19.00 dragged myself back downstairs and ate a light hopefully sugar free meal I realise that tonight that this cortisol issue may be turning into akathisia - something which I now come to think of it I only had for the first 2 or 3 weeks of the WDs back in November - I've been dithering one way and the other about carrying on the RI or not balancing pros and cons of both and have been blaming my alcoholic drinks on Christmas Eve and Day for any deterioration in my mental state however when I made previous mistakes back a few weeks ago and drunk alcohol 2 or 3 times it didn't make me suffer quite like this and definitely bring back akathisia type symptoms so it may be an effect of RI. This and the return to gastric problems meant that tonight I stopped my RI and will try to grit my teeth and continue with a completely SSRI attempt at recovery. Actually the last two days worrying about the advisability or not of the RI has added yet more anxiety to the mix so I flushed the remaining fluoxetines down the toilet so I've burnt my bridges there. I just hope I've done the right thing and the probable akathisia was caused by the RI. 20.30 still ultra restless and assailed by feelings of utter hopelessness - easily the worst day since the first 2 or 3 weeks of WD and I'm wondering where I'd be if I hadn't RI at all - and hoping it hasn't by kindling or whatever made any recovery even harder. Still probably would not have been happy unless I had at least tried it. Prescribed for "help' with the legacy effects of untreated OCD which I had compounded over many years by self-medication with alcohol etc mid-1990s - Gaminil - not actually taken;around 2010 - Citalopram - again not actually used Sertraline - c2014/15 - max dose - stopped working; Citalopram - c2016/17; Escitalopram - c2017; Mirtazipine - c2018 Fluoxetine - 2018 - stopped taking in short taper as recommended by GP 40 mg for a month down to 20 mg for a month. This stopped around 17/10/22. No noticeable issues until sometime between 6-11/11/22 when I thought I had contracted norovirus but which I realised had a psychological component, ie the worst depression and anxiety I've ever known, rushing pulses in head (not really 'zaps' in my case), aches in limbs - in retrospect the gastric problems look like physical withdrawals (and not a virus at all). Have used prn diazepam at various times during last 20 years. Used sparingly but up to twice a week since WDs started - either 5mg or less per dose. Physical symptoms dispersed relatively quickly but emotional issues (depression, anxiety, agitation, OCD) are present 100% of the time. 22nd Dec reinstated 2mg fluoxetine 24th Dec altered amount of reinstatement to 1mg because of possible hypersensitive nervous system Link to comment
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