Caesar65: Escitalopram withdrawal within only 5 weeks after taking it for 18 years/unbearable symptoms since 1 year after withdrawal/advice urgently needed!

[Caesar65]

Hello to everybody!

 

I am very grateful to get an opportunity to write my story in this forum, I am from Germany and in our country those severe problems with antidepressants withdrawals have not yet become very aware to the public, nor the prescribing doctors. It is really a tragedy! 

The tapering strips method, which seems to me being used successfully in England, the USA, the Netherlands aso, is almost still unknown in Germany.

And in the meantime, I think, if I would have already known, more than a year ago, what I know now, all the knowledge, that I achieved, I would probably not be in such an unbearable and suffering situation, than I am still now, since the whole year 2022.  

Here in Germany is absolutely no help if such problems occur, after the withdrawal of Psychopharmaka, this is my sadest experience, and many others are in the same situation 😢 I can also read this in all the stories of the  German Facebook groups who are having this title: withdrawal of psychopharmaka/Antidepressants. Nobody cares, nobody knows, nobody seems to be interested. And there are a lot of predjudices,  there is very often totally lack of knowledge of these kind of drugs. 

The majority of the doctors are denying this very long lasting withdrawal symptoms, most of them still maintain, it doesn’t exist! And all they say, if you are refusing to Antidepressiva, there is nothing we can do! They don’t care about the side effects and all the other terrible and dangerous things in connection with the drug use. And because my side effects, which were getting stronger especially over the last years, I decided to quit with it, a very long time, I was not aware at all, that the problems which occured, the terrible Tinnitus, the Brain Zaps, the abnormal excitements, the sweating excavations, the furious extreme outbreaks of rages, insomnia, regular daily daily bouts of fatigue with leaden tiredness and then later being overactive again. For years I only functioned and lived in a bubble, and I was emotionally numb.

It is more than a year ago that I stopped taking the drug, and unfortunately I reduced the dose to fast. According to my psychiatrists advice, I reduced the dose within only 5 weeks from 20 mg to O; which means 5 mg less per week, and this after my longtime experience of using Lexapro since 2004. How could I ever have been so stupid! If my beloved mom would still be alive, I probably would not have been so naiv, but since then I am traumatized forever, because of the circumstances of her death almost 3 years ago. 

In the End of January, 2022  I was finished with my reduction. And since the whole last year, I really go through hell until nowadays and I never ever felt so bad, since my withdrawal I never had experienced such horrible feelings and symptoms before! And my doctor\ psychiatrist still doesn’t believe, that all the symptoms I still have, are caused from the withdrawal of the drug. He maintains, that after a year, this cannot be. Even though I gave him really a lot of Information about the facts, he is still questioning it! 😢  

Initially, after stopping, I had severe flu-like symptoms, severe nausea for months, loss of appetite, electric shock-like sensations in my head and other parts of my body, movement disorders, visual disturbances, severe muscle cramps. All of this has now subsided, within  a year. But delayed, a permanent physical weakness has developed, especially noticeable in the arms and unbearable anxiety, heavily heart palpitations, plus severe dizziness, difficulty concentrating, brain fog**, a feeling of total insensibility, fatique, hopelessness and joylessness, cognitive disorder.  A permanent state of chronic loss of appetite has also remained. And a permanent feeling of Unreality, very hard to describe, there are feelings of derealization I never had in my mind, and nobody understands, I hardly can explain. 

There are no spontaneous emotions anymore, I can't decide for anything, not even for the simplest things, I think back and forth forever, plus strong tinnitus, severe depression, suicidal thoughts, I live only in the past, have a strong longing for earlier times. My only emotional reaction and emotion is actually only sadness, a melancholy and sadness deeply anchored in me, which is a constant companion.

Already when I wake up in the morning, I always experience this terrible indescribable feeling, which restricts my everyday life so massively, I am already on sick leave for most of the year and also have great fear for my existence, great fear for the future.

I don't know how much longer I can endure this condition, I have been trying for months to achieve relief by taking various dietary supplements and phytopharmaceuticals, i.e. only herbal remedies, and have already spent a lot of money, in vain. Unfortunately, my health insurance does not cover orthomolecular and holistic medicine, only these expensive antidepressants, which have been prescribed for years, which are covered by the german health insurance. I am not able to smile or laugh, no joyful emotions, I can’t listen to music anymore but I love music!😢

 

My prescribing doctor believes my withdrawal symptoms, but says, this is only a reaction of my body, which means, that my depression is back.

Well, the depression was always my company, since my youth, it never disappeared! He says, that I would feel so bad, because I refused to take another drug, and recommended  Sertralin, in the meantime he recommended Agomelatine, that I also refused to take.  Since a year he did absolutely nothing to help me with my severe symptoms. I was the one, who started to research in the internet, and I found a lot of information there.

And thank God there a few people in Germany who are very busy and concerned about the problems which occur after the drug withdrawal, like Peter Lehmann, Peter Ansari, and some others. They were publishing very good books about this case. I learned a lot about my symptoms and why they excist. 

 

The majority of the doctors are denying this very long lasting withdrawal symptoms, most of them still maintain, it doesn’t exist! And  they say, if you are refusing to Antidepressiva, there is nothing we can do! They don’t care about the side effects and all the other terrible and dangerous things in connection with the drug use. 

 

And the main question is also: Is it ever possible to reinstate the drug with the tapering method even only with small doses after more than a year after quitting with this SSRI? Or better through the liquid formula with a special syringe? 

But this method is still very unusal to be practiced in Germany and I would have to order the strips  from the Netherlands. There is only one pharmacy who produces them,  I found out.

 

I am very afraid to reinstate even a low dose of Lexapro again, because I already tried it last June 2022 with a short period of taking another drug called Brintellix/Vortioxetin, which is said to be similar to the drug Cipralex/Lexapro/Escitalopram. My doctor  only precribed it because it was my suggestion, the drug is not available in Germany anymore and my pharmacy had to order it from Switzerland. 

And the all the symptoms got worse and I was lying in bed again with flu like symptoms including shivering in hot summer. I am quite sure now, the dose was much to high for being used as reinstating drug, it was 10 mg, than i reduced myself to 5 mg. 

 

But what shall I do? I can´t live with this terrible symptoms anymore, I fear, they last longer, perhaps for years, I can´t bear that anymore.

If I would know, that I will feel better in the near future, sometimes this year, but everything seems so uncertain and my anxiety kills me.

The heavily heart palpations, this terrific bodily weakness in my arms and this dizziness, this very difficult concentration even for the simplest things, and all that, It is so frustrating! I am crying every single day. And I have great fear for my income, what will happen to me, if I can´t work anymore?

Thank you for your consideration and your attention of my story. Best wishes to all of you who read this! 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Caesr65.  I'm very sorry you're going through this. 

 

The response you're getting from doctors regarding withdrawal is all too common.  We see it here on the site almost every day from members expressing their frustration and bewilderment at encountering a stone wall of obtuse disbelief from doctors.  Fortunately, there is a growing awareness of the reality of withdrawal, but the change in awareness in the medical community is excruciatingly slow.

 

To start, could you please complete a drug signature of your drugs, doses, withdrawals and reinstatements?  Be sure to include the date and dose of your last before you went to zero in Jan. 2022.  A list format is easier for us to read as opposed to a paragraph format.  Use this link:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Here are some very helpful links on withdrawal and the healing process from our site.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

The fact that many of your symptoms have resolved is an extremely encouraging sign that you are healing, pointing the way to future healing of the remainder of your symptoms.  So these remaining symptoms are not permanent.  They are in the process of resolving.  I say this with certainty.  I have a number of the symptoms you describe, and I am confident they will resolve.  This doesn't make them any less miserable in the present moment--on the bad days they are very difficult--but I do know they will improve in time.  

 

Regarding reinstating a year after your last dose, this is risky with limited chances of success, though not nonexistent.  There is the danger that reinstatement will make matters worse.   Reinstatement works most predictably if done within 3 months of your last dose, and the reinstatement must be a very tiny percentage of your last dose.  If you take too much, the reinstatement can make matters worse, as happened to you when you reinstated too high.  Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

I know you are desperate for relief.  To repeat, reinstatement of a very tiny dose of Escitalopram might help or it might make matters worse.  You've had a lot of symptoms resolve, indicating that that the others will resolve in time.  I can't say how long it will take. There's no way to know.  If you decide you want to reinstate, let us know the last dose you were on before your reduction to zero in Jan. 22 and we can suggest a reinstatement dose to try and the methods you can use to get that dose. Absolutely do not reinstate without letting us suggest a dose.  

 

An alternative to reinstatement is using non-drug methods to deal with withdrawal.  Many of our members have found these helpful.  It's important to try to remain as calm as possible and not to panic.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Caesar65]

Dear Gridley, I thank you very much for your kind words and the informations given! 
I hope to be able to share lots of experiences and advice concerning my symptoms.

But I like to inform you, that I wanted to create more detailed information about my drug history in my signature. But I guess it exceeds the 12 lines only allowed.

And it should be visible more clearer to see, but it would  exceed the limit, so I had to cut everything. But please tell me, if I should make any changes about it. 

I wanted to write more about the herbal products which I already tried and still take. 
With my best wishes, Rainer 

[Gridley]

@Caesar65

 

The only important information is the drugs, especially in the last 2 years.  We don't need the herbal products or any symptoms.   I've edited your signature here.  Please replace your signature with what I've written here.  

 

2011 until 2016  10 mg Escitalopram

2016 until Dec 2021  20 mg Escitalopram

Dec 2021 until end of Jan 2022  5-week taper of Escitalopram, 5mg less per week to 0 end of Jan 2022

June 2022 Vortioxetin 10mg, 5 mg for 2 weeks

 

That's all we need in the signature.  If you want to write about the herbal products or symptoms,  you can post that in your regular introduction topic here, not in the signature.

 

Here's the link to edit your signature:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

 

 

 

[Caesar65]

Dear Gridley, thank you for your help, but I modified your edit, I included the fact that I started with Escitalopram/ Lexapro / Cipralex ( different names, but are all same ) already in 2004,

 I think this is important, isn’t it?
I read in your signature which is very interesting especially for me, that you have started to take Lexapro also in 2004. And you did it the right way, you tapered very slow, and it took you 3 years/ 10 months! Congratulations 👍🌹 

And I am in severe condition, because I reduced it much to fast, because I was not aware at all, what could happen to me!😢😢😢 I am really so exhausted and totally unsure what could be done to make me feel better. These symptoms are unbearable, and I really think about reinstating the drug again, but only very small doses. Therefore I am looking for advice here, because I am so afraid, can’t make up my mind. And today I went to my doctor again, and wanted to discuss  this again with him, and he just recommended me to take Lamotrigine 25 mg,  a drug  for the treatment of epilepsy! He was the one, who adviced me to taper Escitalopram 5 mg less per week, and since a year he doesn’t seem to know much about the tragedy of withdrawal symptoms, and I don’t have Epilepsy. 
I am grateful, that I don’t have this, so why should this help me to overcome my symptoms? Are there any experiences anybody knows of?
Greetings Rainer 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Caesar65
better viewable format

[Gridley]

@Caesar65

 

Your signature is fine.

 

I wouldn't reinstate the Escitalopram.  It's been too long.

 

Regarding the Lamotrigine, I've notified the other staff to get their ideas on this.  Please don't do anything until you hear from us.

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Caesar65

 

On 3/8/2023 at 5:19 PM, Caesar65 said:

Initially, after stopping, I had severe flu-like symptoms, severe nausea for months, loss of appetite, electric shock-like sensations in my head and other parts of my body, movement disorders, visual disturbances, severe muscle cramps. All of this has now subsided, within  a year. But delayed, a permanent physical weakness has developed, especially noticeable in the arms and unbearable anxiety, heavily heart palpitations, plus severe dizziness, difficulty concentrating, brain fog**, a feeling of total insensibility, fatique, hopelessness and joylessness, cognitive disorder.  A permanent state of chronic loss of appetite has also remained. And a permanent feeling of Unreality, very hard to describe, there are feelings of derealization I never had in my mind, and nobody understands, I hardly can explain. 

There are no spontaneous emotions anymore, I can't decide for anything, not even for the simplest things, I think back and forth forever, plus strong tinnitus, severe depression, suicidal thoughts, I live only in the past, have a strong longing for earlier times. My only emotional reaction and emotion is actually only sadness, a melancholy and sadness deeply anchored in me, which is a constant companion.

Already when I wake up in the morning, I always experience this terrible indescribable feeling, which restricts my everyday life so massively, I am already on sick leave for most of the year and also have great fear for my existence, great fear for the future.

 

Yours is a good description of severe acute withdrawal followed by protracted withdrawal.

 

Over the last 6 months, which symptoms have gotten better?

[Caesar65]

Hi Altostrata, I read you are from SF? I wished so much,  I could travel there! 
Concerning my symptoms I can report, that the nausea, the muscle cramps, the brain zaps, the strong tinnitus ( loud humming sound ), the flue-like symptoms disappeared since approximately September 2022. Some of the symptoms like the brain zaps already in summer time. But all the other stuff remains still, some symptoms seem to be worse, or unchanged like my permanent anxiety and the heart palpitations, the high blood pressure, and the again to deep. And this feeling of absolutely no spontaneous emotions, no joy, no smile, just nothing but deep mourning. And the Fatique, this weakness in my arms, the dizziness permanently unchanged remains. 😢 

All those indescribable feelings, everything seems so unreal and all this points, I hardly can put into words right now. I guess you know what I mean. 😢😢😢 😩 

It took me very long to write you back, I don’t function in a normal way anymore, not at all, like I  used to be. 
Another important thing I like to report is, that I tried to use St John’s Wort (Johanniskraut) , a herbal antidepressant, which I already tried out in Separate/October 2022, but made the vertigo and tinnitus even worse, so I stopped after a week, the Gingko in addition didn’t help also. And I tried to usevthe same same product Laif 900 mg in February 2023, with the results of more extreme anxiety and dizziness, somI stopped taking it after approximately 3  weeks. And very interesting is the fact, that after this withdrawal of this Product I gotbflu-like symptoms and muscle cramps again, like I already had last year after the fast withdrawal of Escitalopram/ Lexapro and after the short trial episode of using Vortioxetin/ Brintellix. Even St John’s Wort is a so called herbal product, it seems to make the withdrawal symptoms stronger! But I also read that already in some German Websites also. 
That’s why I am so scared to try the risk of reinstate another drug, but maybe a very small dose of Escitalopram would help……..? And then I could taper again very very slowly, I don’t know what to do anymore. 
Greetings Rainer 

 

😢

Edited March 11, 2023 by Caesar65
I klicked the send button too early

[AmitV]

40 minutes ago, Caesar65 said:

Hi Altostrata, I read you are from SF? I wished so much,  I could travel there! 
Concerning my symptoms I can report, that the nausea, the muscle cramps, the brain zaps, the strong tinnitus ( loud humming sound ), the flue-like symptoms disappeared since approximately September 2022. Some of the symptoms like the brain zaps already in summer time. But all the other stuff remains still, some symptoms seem to be worse, or unchanged like my permanent anxiety and the heart palpitations, the high blood pressure, and the again to deep. And this feeling of absolutely no spontaneous emotions, no joy, no smile, just nothing but deep mourning. And the Fatique, this weakness in my arms, the dizziness permanently unchanged remains. 😢 

All those indescribable feelings, everything seems so unreal and all this points, I hardly can put into words right now. I guess you know what I mean. 😢😢😢 😩 

It took me very long to write you back, I don’t function in a normal way anymore, not at all, like I  used to be. 
Another important thing I like to report is, that I tried to use St John’s Wort (Johanniskraut) , a herbal antidepressant, which I already tried out in Separate/October 2022, but made the vertigo and tinnitus even worse, so I stopped after a week, the Gingko in addition didn’t help also. And I tried to usevthe same same product Laif 900 mg in February 2023, with the results of more extreme anxiety and dizziness, somI stopped taking it after approximately 3  weeks. And very interesting is the fact, that after this withdrawal of this Product I gotbflu-like symptoms and muscle cramps again, like I already had last year after the fast withdrawal of Escitalopram/ Lexapro and after the short trial episode of using Vortioxetin/ Brintellix. Even St John’s Wort is a so called herbal product, it seems to make the withdrawal symptoms stronger! But I also read that already in some German Websites also. 
That’s why I am so scared to try the risk of reinstate another drug, but maybe a very small dose of Escitalopram would help……..? And then I could taper again very very slowly, I don’t know what to do anymore. 
Greetings Rainer 

 

😢

I have the same problem!!! I need help! I took Trintellix/Brintellix for 2 weeks, intense dizziness began. Then provider switched to escitalorpam. Dizziness came down a little bit, but never went away. Then we tapered and stopped escitalopram after 4 weeks of taking it. First 4-5 days dizziness went down, then I got hit with withdrawals - insomnia, sweating, vivid dreams, high heart rates, suicidal ideations, tinnitus, clogged ears. At the same time dizziness came back up. I still get anxiety, random high heart rates and constant dizziness & photophobia. I have not been able to drive for 2 months and have not been to work since. 
 

My provider gave me propranolol (beta blocker). I took 20mg this morning and got hit by weakness and fatigue for 20 mins, but then everything got better. Anxiety and dizziness. It wasn’t perfect but with blue light blocker glasses and brown tint sunglasses I actually went for a drive today. Not for long, my dizziness came back after 7 hours. Propeanolol only works for 6 hours. My provider asked me to take another dose of 10mg in afternoon since first one gave me side effects. Didn’t work! I feel crappy and dizzy again!

 

Will try 20mg again tomorrow morning.

 

I am also looking for answers to get rid of this dizziness for good. I need help desperately.

[Altostrata]

@Caesar65 How has your symptom pattern changed since September 2022?

[Caesar65]

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Caesar65 How has your symptom pattern changed since September 2022?

I just saw some mistakes in writing in my post before, is it still possible to correct them? 

Since September, after I tried the Laif 900 ( herbal antidepressant) for about 1 week in the End of September, like I already wrote, the vertigo and extreme humming sound in my ears got worse, so I just stopped taking it, before  I stopped first I added Gingko pills, to get rid of the strong vertigo, but it didn’t help either. Therefore I stopped taking both.
I also tried several times some other herbal products with a mix of small doses of passion flower, Johanniskraut, Valerian, but didn’t help, too.

And the second time this February, like I already wrote, I tried to use Laif 900 again but with the effect of sleeplessness, stronger vertigo and it seemed to make my dizziness stronger. And after about 3 weeks, after I stopped taking it, I got the flu-like symptoms and muscle cramps again, also pain in my legs, which disappeared after about a week, but the fatigue was getting much stronger. Concerning the muscle cramps, I am ashamed to report, that I got anal spasms, like I already had when I still used Escitalopram, always in the middle of the night I woke up from that painful thing. And I got them again after the small episode with Laif  900. Always it appeared just for a short time, like 1 hour or so, but I never thought it occurred with the use of Escitalopram. Now I know more, I have read, this could be the case also after withdrawal of antidepressants and muscle cramps are also listed in the drug leaflet, and is one of those things, my doctor is still questioning! 
 

And since September/ October: 

The very strong Tinnitus ( humming sound ) disappeared about approximately 1 month ago, perhaps since February 23, a few days after I stopped taking the herbal antidepressant Laif. 
The very long-lasting nausea, the brain zaps, the pain in my legs disappeared also, since last autumn, but  there is still numbness in my toes sometimes. The flu-like symptoms who came back several times, and also after the Laif 900, were getting better. The lack of appetite remains still. 

And like I already wrote in my post before, all the other worse symptoms, first of all my terrible strong anxiety, the bodily weakness in my arms, like heavy arms, the dizziness, the undescribable feelings of unreality, the very deep feelings of mourning, my weeping and crying inside me and in the public, the fatique, the sensitive of cold are all present. Also the permanent heart palpitations with extra systoles were getting worse, the blood pressure, which falls from high to low, with mostly a small pulse, the vertigo, the forgetfulness, the less concentration, it is like twighlight state, the derealization feelings, the poor coordination, the cognitive disorder, the inability to make any quick decisions of any case, even simple things, are worse, too, everything is very frightening and remains permanently. I have absolutely no joyful emotional reactions, can’t enjoy anything, can’t even smile at someone. My face is like a stone mask, I can talk to someone, when it seems that there is Interest, than I talk a lot, but often forget, what I wanted to say, it is crazy. There are undescribable feelings inside me, I can’t explain them. And I have to force me to eat something. 
I only function to a very limited extend. I have the feeling everything gets worse. 
 

And when I wanted to discuss with my doctor, if I should try out reinstating a very small dose ( 0,1 /;0,5 mg ) of Escitalopram again, to relieve my unbearable symptoms, with the Tapering Strips, which I would have to order from the Netherlands ( like I already explained in my very first post, in Germany this method is still unusal…..) , he said he will give me a prescription of Lamotrigine 25 mg instead. He doesn’t believe that a very small dose will have any effects.  Lamotrigin is for Bipolar Disorder and Epilepsy, would this be able to help me overcome my strong anxiety 😥?! When I read about the side effects I could vomit. And again such a high dose!? 

[Caesar65]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:27 AM, Altostrata said:

Hello, @Caesar65

 

 

Yours is a good description of severe acute withdrawal followed by protracted withdrawal.

 

Over the last 6 months, which symptoms have gotten better?

 

[Caesar65]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:27 AM, Altostrata said:

Hello, @Caesar65

 

 

Yours is a good description of severe acute withdrawal followed by protracted withdrawal.

 

Over the last 6 months, which symptoms have gotten better?

 

Just now, Caesar65 said:

 

Hello Altostrata,

 

the brain zaps are gone

the very long lasting nausea, but lack of appetite remains 

the flu - like symptoms 

the very loud humming sound in my ears

the pain in my body parts wandering 

All these symptoms have become better. 
The other unbearable symptoms remained. 

[Altostrata]

It's a good sign that some of your symptoms have improved since September 2022.

 

How has your sleep pattern changed since September 2022?

[Caesar65]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It's a good sign that some of your symptoms have improved since September 2022.

 

How has your sleep pattern changed since September 2022?

I think, I had a better sleep last year since fall,  and since a while it changed. 

 I can sleep better without the drug, but recently when I am getting tired, usually always very late, but then I can’t really sleep well, and I am between waking and falling to sleep……and in the morning it is impossible to get up early, because of my fatigue. I get up, drink water, and lay down again, before high noon it’s impossible to do anything, and I have to force me to get up. I am still on sick leave, and fear for my income, I can’t go on like this! 😢 What shall I do? How will I survive?😢

I still think about trying to reinstate the drug Escitalopram but only very small doses, but don’t know how ( like I wrote in my first post about the difficulties connected with reinstating through the tapering strips ) or trying to use Lamotrigine, like I wrote. Would Lamotrigine be an option? What do you think?

I am so afraid of everything! And I am not bi-polar, and there is no Epilepsy with me, would Lamotrigine really help to overcome my strong anxiety, my heart beating, my bodily weakness in my arms, aso……and give me a well being feeling back to me? I have forgotten how it is, to feel good, since a year    I feel like a Zombie, like a living dead😢 

I can’t bear this feelings anymore 😢 But after all, my post before, 5 hours ago explains  more about what is going on with me, it is a nightmare 😢😢😢 It is like, I am not me anymore! 😢😩 

And once more I am sorry, but I have to say, that if I would not have been so naiv to believe my doctors advice, and therefore tapering much too fast in big steps of reducing 5 mg per week from 20 mg Escitalopram, I am sure, that I would not have this terrible and severe situation, I am since over a year! I am so desparate! More than ever in my life. 😢 Greetings and many thanks to you! 

[Altostrata]

So your sleep has also improved since September 2022, but it isn't normal yet?

 

How has your sleep pattern changed since January 2023?

[Caesar65]

7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

So your sleep has also improved since September 2022, but it isn't normal yet?

 

How has your sleep pattern changed since January 2023?

Hi Altostrata, 

I feel that my sleep is getting worse since January 23, there are many nights when I am tired but sleepless, I wake up early but then I am totally unable to get up. Maybe because of the vitamines I take? And my strong anxiety is permanently there with the palpitations and heartbeats and this weakness in my arms, and all the other symptoms 😢 In the End of this January it is exactly one year my rapidly withdrawal. 

Please can you tell me your point concerning the use of reinstating after more than a year ago and the use of Lamotrigine, which could perhaps be an option against my symptoms or not? 

I have the greatest fear of both options. Or what about 5 HTP? 
 

[Altostrata]

What are the vitamins you take?

[Caesar65]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:34 PM, Altostrata said:

It's a good sign that some of your symptoms have improved since September 2022.

 

How has your sleep pattern changed since September 2022?

 

On 10/1/2022 at 3:13 PM, JackM said:

Struggling with Lexapro effects

 

I still have to complete my history, but am too ill to do so.  Please forgive me. 

I came off of Lexapro in April after one year of therapy, and now I am plagued with horrible brain fog that seems to be getting worse by the day.  
 

I feel tired, have diminished verbal fluency, and my processing speed has plummeted.   I feel debilitated. 

Does anyone believe that these drugs cause PERMANENT brain damage????  Am I likely to return to my baseline? 
 

reassurance and advice needed!!!! I’m taking fish oil and vitamin B12, and exercise daily to induce neurogenesis. 

 

 

On 2/26/2016 at 6:37 PM, Whistleblower said:

Been browsing this site for awhile. Never posted until today. My story is as follows. Married the girl I began dating as a junior in high school. Dated through college. Married in 1996. Was a good marriage. Both of us had careers. Had a child. I wasn't perfect. Neither was she. Career stress yes. Daily life was good. Her love for me was expressed daily as was mine. We had a long history. Both our families were great. Then in 2010 my world changed big time. My once affectionate loving partner started acting different. No affection. Would walk by me and not look at me. Started staying away. Began to find fault with everything about me. Became very selfish and confident. Started arguments about anything. Would pull away from a hug with a look of disgust. I began to notice her family staying away. I talked to her dad and he just stated she was over it. Over what? I asked. No real answer. In October I found a citalopram bottle. I Google it and oh boy did the lights ever come on. I confronted her about my evidence and all I can say is wow. She was hostile. Aggressive. Declared she had never loved me ever. Said she wanted to end the relationship as quickly as possible. Screamed for me to get out with a lot of cussing. I had never heard this woman utter one badword. Needless to say I left. Over the next year I saw horrendous things I can't believe. This loving calm person partied it up. Dated other guys. Put a profile on dating sites. Told everyone in our town I was abusive. That I was an alcoholic. Etc....even had her dad staying in my house with a gun because in her manic no sleep dreaming state could not tell reality from dreams....while all of this was going on my son basically stayed with me. I would hear things and I just couldn't believe it. I would have never believed a drug could do such a thing. She remarried within months. Ran off to vegas. Didnt even include our child. Of course her family believed every crazy lie she uttered and I was so saddened by that. They literally loved me up until the week she began this drug...I saw a woman turn into a selfish self centered crazy person who changed in every way. Even dressed different. Different taste in men. Wanting new things. New 3 new cars. Three hundred and twenty five thousand dollar house, tons of vacations and trips. A woman who was satisfied before with a good book and some relaxing in the hammock was now so different. In 2014 I told her I wanted no contact until she was off the drug...she became enraged stating she hadn't been on it in two years, yet a week later in front of our son told an insurance agent she was on it while filing for life insurance. He was upset that she lied. Fact is she tried to get off. She couldnt. Literally sick in bed. She likes the way she feels on it. My ex wife is gone forever. I have moved on. I met a sweet lady. I was upfront with her. Ssri drugs are my it litmus test. I will never ever be with anyone that has ever used these drugs, is on them, or doesn't understand what they do. They destroy lives, families, and individuals. The drugs are the devil in a bottle. I am damaged forever. But I am healing everyday. If I didn't live it I wouldn't understand it. And that is why this drug is so deceptive. Unless you have lived it you don't see it. The worst isn't over. We have a lot more mass shootings, soldier suicides, mothers killing kids, etc. I believe this is one of the biggest deceptions ever put on humanity. So thus the name whistleblower. Any of you fromm the old marriages destroyed site on topix will remember me as lost. Good luck all and God bless all of you. Sorry for typos or misspelling. I'm in a hurry using a tablet...

 

On 1/20/2023 at 12:24 PM, Bullitt1968 said:

I'm sorry, but I'm not in a position to answer you right now in detail due to severe brain fog. Only this much, before I got this brain fog, I was very active, among other things I translated the scientific work of Dr. Taylor and Dr. Horowitz into German, completely and if you give me an email address, I will gladly send it to you. I was counselling in the ADFD for a short time, if I enter "counselling" in deepl translator it comes up with "beratend" and the ADFD, like the PsyAb, counsels those affected. I didn't claim to be an official facilitator, but I did counselling, affected people. 

And we are far behind compared to the US and especially the UK. We have great organisations like the PsyAb Forum, the DGSP, of which I am a passive member, depression-today by Peter Ansari, with whom I am friends, and PsychExit by Peter Lehmann, with whom I also communicate. He recently added my translation of Dr Horowitz's paper on how to properly reduce SSRIs to his website.

When I say that we are far behind, I am referring to the rapid development in the UK, where the guidelines have been changed, there is a supplementary guideline for the correct reduction and discontinuation of antidepressants, which does not exist in the DGPPN, and the biochemical model as a cause of depression has been cited as scientifically refuted in the UK guidelines, which is also not the case in the DGPPN.

Dr. Horowitz has had an outpatient clinic for sufferers for over a year, he and his team around Joana Moncrief offer support and counselling and, as Mark told me, they will do so for about 3 - 5 years, the costs are borne by the NHS (National Health Service), further outpatient clinics are now to be set up throughout England. The NICE (English guideline commission) has adopted the results of the report "Understanding Depression: Why adults experience it and what can help" of the British Psychological Society one to one in the guidelines. There, social factors are named as causes of depression. This all happend in the last 2 years! 

We have one ambulance at the charite, thats all. I agree to all what you say and i know all this papers, reports. For me it says a lot about Germany that there is no Mad in Germany, when there are Mad in Italy, Spain, Finland and others. 

There is still no Mad in Germany, which upsets me a lot, because countries like Italy, Spain, Finland have managed to set up Mad in America Global and to network. I had asked the DGSP and now also Peter Lehmann to address this at the next PsychExit Congress, in my opinion PsychExit would be very well suited as a basis for Mad in Germany. 

Don't get me wrong, there are great projects in Germany, but they are all just fingers, what is missing is the thumb, to put it figuratively, without the thumb you can't grab anything and you are very limited.

It's about building a strong lobby for those affected, just as Mad in America is not only for the USA but also for all countries that have joined MIA Global. We are ruled by the Stiftung Deutsche Depressionshilfe and the Deutsche Depressionsliga, they are the mouthpiece of the pharmaceutical industry, that is clear to all of us, Hegerl is the silverback, as Goetzsche calls the chief lobbyists in his book in reference to the alpha males in the gorillas. On both websites and in the brochures, the biochemical model is still propagated as the cause of depression. The book of Prof Bschor is a positive thing even though I agree with how Peter Ansari reviewed the book.

 

kind regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

36 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

So your sleep has also improved since September 2022, but it isn't normal yet?

 

How has your sleep pattern changed since January 2023?

 

[Caesar65]

41 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

What are the vitamins you take?

My vitamines as listed in the » about me «  section of my profile are Vitamine D 2000 iU; Probiotica ( Omnibiotic ) Multivitamin Complex Juice; Omega 3 Fatty Acids with Coenzyme Q10 and Vitamine E;  sometimes extra in addition with Vitamine B Complex; a combi product with passionflower, valerian, hop; magnesium; sometimes CBD Oil without THC (doesn’t help my anxiety ) 

Last year I used also safron, rhodiola herbal with Vitamine B 12 extracts, too. 
I tried many stuff to overcome my symptoms. 

[Caesar65]

Please help me with your advice, I have so much of anxiety, I don’t know what to do!😢 I wake up with anxiety and all the other symptoms and I am not able to work or doing anything😢 and everyday I am all by myself.😢 

 

[Caesar65]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:06 PM, Gridley said:

@Caesar65

 

Your signature is fine.

 

I wouldn't reinstate the Escitalopram.  It's been too long.

 

Regarding the Lamotrigine, I've notified the other staff to get their ideas on this.  Please don't do anything until you hear from us.

What shall I do? I can’t bear this symptoms anymore and my anxiety almost kills me😢 Isn’t it possible to reinstate even after more than a year with very small doses until I feel better? Or shall I try out Lamotrigine, but I am not bipolar and I am very scared of the side effects also. I am totally desperate😩! 

[Caesar65]

On 3/14/2023 at 12:53 AM, Caesar65 said:

 

 

 

 

 

I can’t sleep! I am between awaked and snoozing. 

[Fifree]

hi Caesar. I’m so sorry to hear about your struggles. There are a lot of tips in the link above 

[Gridley]

21 minutes ago, Caesar65 said:

Isn’t it possible to reinstate even after more than a year with very small doses until I feel better?

Yes, it might work.  It's been known to work more than a year out.

 

To start, I'd suggest a reinstatement dose of 0.25mg Escitalopram (1/4mg)--no more. It's extremely important that you don't take too much.  Your nervous system is very sensitive now and, since you've been off the drug for so long, it's been getting accustomed to being off the drug.  Taking too much can overwhelm your system and make you more destabilized.  Reinstatement is a case where more is definitely not better.  That's why we're reinstating a very low dose.

 

The following link tells you how to get such a small dose of Escitalopram. There are basically 5 methods:  The easiest and most accurate methods are to use a prescription liquid or to get your doses made at a compounding pharmacy or (not described in the following link) to use tapering strips from the Netherlands, which is basically a form of compounding.  B these methods will require a doctor's cooperation in the form of a prescription.  Two methods you can do on your own are making your own liquid and weighing your own doses with a digital scale.

 

Here's the link that describes the various methods:

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Here's the link for the tapering strips in case you use them:

 

Prescription compounded tapering strips for …

 

Here's the link for the scale many members use, available on Amazon:

 

 

Smart Weigh GEM20-20g x 0.001 grams, High …

 

Read through all this and decide what method you want to use.

 

Some things to remember as you go into the reinstatement:

 

--It takes 4 days for a reinstated dose to reach full strength in your bloodstream and a few days more for it to register in your brain.  You might feel results the first day, but give it a week to 10 days to see how it's working.

--If you feel worse after reinstating, stop the reinstatement immediately.

--If you don't feel worse but don't feel better after reinstating for .25mg 10 days, we can very slowly increase the dose to try to get to a dose that helps.  Do not increase on your own: lt us know and we can work together to increase the dose from .25 if necessary

--It's a good idea to keep daily notes on how you're doing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fifree]

And here’s some info on non-drug coping mechanisms. 
 

 

 

[Catina7]

I'm sorry you're having the horrible anxiety.  I've been experiencing the same from a too-fast taper of Venlafaxine (Effexor).  I feel like there's adrenaline pumping through my veins at all times, and it's been this way since September of 2021.  I know that given enough time our bodies and brains will stabilize themselves.  I just keep holding onto hope as strongly as I can.  You are not alone!  The mods here are great and you are in good hands.

[Caesar65]

53 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Yes, it might work.  It's been known to work more than a year out.

 

To start, I'd suggest a reinstatement dose of 0.25mg Escitalopram (1/4mg)--no more. It's extremely important that you don't take too much.  Your nervous system is very sensitive now and, since you've been off the drug for so long, it's been getting accustomed to being off the drug.  Taking too much can overwhelm your system and make you more destabilized.  Reinstatement is a case where more is definitely not better.  That's why we're reinstating a very low dose.

 

The following link tells you how to get such a small dose of Escitalopram. There are basically 5 methods:  The easiest and most accurate methods are to use a prescription liquid or to get your doses made at a compounding pharmacy or (not described in the following link) to use tapering strips from the Netherlands, which is basically a form of compounding.  B these methods will require a doctor's cooperation in the form of a prescription.  Two methods you can do on your own are making your own liquid and weighing your own doses with a digital scale.

 

Here's the link that describes the various methods:

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Here's the link for the tapering strips in case you use them:

 

Prescription compounded tapering strips for …

 

Here's the link for the scale many members use, available on Amazon:

 

 

 

Smart Weigh GEM20-20g x 0.001 grams, High …

 

Read through all this and decide what method you want to use.

 

Some things to remember as you go into the reinstatement:

 

--It takes 4 days for a reinstated dose to reach full strength in your bloodstream and a few days more for it to register in your brain.  You might feel results the first day, but give it a week to 10 days to see how it's working.

--If you feel worse after reinstating, stop the reinstatement immediately.

--If you don't feel worse but don't feel better after reinstating for .25mg 10 days, we can very slowly increase the dose to try to get to a dose that helps.  Do not increase on your own: lt us know and we can work together to increase the dose from .25 if necessary

--It's a good idea to keep daily notes on how you're doing. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your answer, but I am very very scared anyway, but I think I have no choice. 😢 But I am not familiar with the procedure of making such small doses, that’s what I discussed with my so called doctor, too. And he still claimd, such a small dose will have no effect! But of course, I do see it in the same way like you! If I would ever try it out, than only with small doses. Here in Germany the Tapering Strips are unfortunately not very usual, like I reported in my first post. And the liquid formula of Lexapro is only available in a concentration disis of 20 mg. The pharmacy claims that I will be unable to get a  small dose of 0,1 mg witha syringe.  ( The units of measurement are important: 1 mg = 0,0005 ml )

And what about the trying of Lamotrigine ? 

 

53 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

@Caesar65

 

I'll ask Altostrata, the founder of this site, who used small doses of Lamotrigine, for her opinion about this.

[Caesar65]

Yes, that would be very nice, I already wrote her about this option, too. But I got no reply until then. She is a wonderful person, I read about her in MAD. 
In Germany we don’t have as many websites concerning the withdrawal problems of antidepressants. 
May I ask you again a question? I noticed, that under my posts are listed f e noumerous replys, but I can’t find them. I am still not so familiar with SA, and also I don’t know if I do it the correct way, when I answer to someone, because sometimes my typed answer message disappeared after I look into it again. And some questions are listed twice, when I answer to somebody, I should click the quote button always, right? 
 

[Caesar65]

4 hours ago, Fifree said:

And here’s some info on non-drug coping mechanisms. 
 

Thank you🌹 

 

 

[Caesar65]

4 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I'm sorry you're having the horrible anxiety.  I've been experiencing the same from a too-fast taper of Venlafaxine (Effexor).  I feel like there's adrenaline pumping through my veins at all times, and it's been this way since September of 2021.  I know that given enough time our bodies and brains will stabilize themselves.  I just keep holding onto hope as strongly as I can.  You are not alone!  The mods here are great and you are in good hands.

Thanks a lot🌹

[Caesar65]

4 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I'm sorry you're having the horrible anxiety.  I've been experiencing the same from a too-fast taper of Venlafaxine (Effexor).  I feel like there's adrenaline pumping through my veins at all times, and it's been this way since September of 2021.  I know that given enough time our bodies and brains will stabilize themselves.  I just keep holding onto hope as strongly as I can.  You are not alone!  The mods here are great and you are in good hands.

Thank you, I am very thankful for everyone who is writing me🌹🙏

[Gridley]

9 minutes ago, Caesar65 said:

when I answer to somebody, I should click the quote button always, right? 

You should first highlight the sentences you want to quote and then click on "quote."  When you click "quote" without highlighting a specific part of the post, it repeats the whole post and puts your response in the quote.  This makes your post hard to read.  

 

So, for example, with your last post I first highlighted the above sentence "when I answer to somebody..."  The word "Quote" then appeared.  That's when you should click on "quote."  

 

The quoted sentences with appear at the top of your message.  Then you can write your message.

 

If you want to quote another sentence after that, just put the cursor below your post and follow the same procedure.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by Gridley

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, Caesar65 said:

But I am not familiar with the procedure of making such small doses,

What about a compounding pharmacy?  They should be able to make any dose you want.

[Caesar65]

1 minute ago, Gridley said:

You should first highlight the sentences you want to quote and then click on "quote."  When you click "quote" without highlighting a specific part of the post, it repeats the whole post and puts your response in the quote.  This makes your post hard to read.  

 

So, for example, with your last post I first highlighted the above sentence "when I answer to somebody..."  The word "Quote" then appeared.  That's when you should click on "quote."  

Thank you for your help, and tell Almostrata my best wishes, she probably had a hard time to read my postings, because I didn’t highlight first. But to answer a message, I shall always click on quote first? Is this the way to answer? Or shall  I just write at the topic underneath.