Iggy131313 validation is imminent

[Fizz]

Iggy, how r u doing? Hope u okay and not having a rough day. Sending lots of love. Xxxxxxxx

[Iggy131313]

I have been holding on this dose (0.48) for 12 weeks now and Im still in the deepest hell, I had 4 weeks of no akathisia, that was a wodnerful relief, I had loads of other symptoms but the fact that I didnt have the akathisia helped to give me hope, it came back 4/5 days ago and my will to live is not looking good.

 

what scares me the most os the people who tell me I cant heal while Im still taking a small amount, alto says I can, and I know im not able to go any lower, Im terrified, so terrified

 

This morning my left arm was paraylsed I couldnt not move it at all for at least 5 minutes then movement came on and off for an hour or so, it has been curling into a fist at time today...thats not what scares me, the akathisia scares me, I also have feelings of being totally drugged up and like im on acid all the time, ALL THE TIME that never lets up, the akathisia is on and off all day, but mostly on, and I have terrible free floating anxiety all the time, every second of everyday Im wishing for death, I cant belive I have lived like this for 13 months and no end in sight, nothing.

 

I can heal while Im taking this small amount cant I? and then make a desicion as to if and when I come off? I feel so incredibly damaged and that shipko thing has REALLY upset me and scared me even more, If I just knew there would be an end to this and that I can heal while I take the 0.48 then I could cope better, but the unknown is killing me, and the symptoms are severe, I really belive I am the worst case I have read about and that scares me even more.

 

I would have said that I was seeing some small improvements a few weeks ago becasue the akathisia let up and was replaced with PGAD and very strong dizzy/lsd stuff, but now its back and I STILL have the lsd feelings so in fact, Im probably worse.

 

but if the drug was causing the problem then it would effect me more after taking it wouldnt it? and I dont think thats the case. I need support, I need to hear that I can heal, and while I am taking this small amount, I plan on holding at least another 12 weeks, I dont think I can come off it, I know I would end up killing myself if I got worse, I want to die but when I think about not seeing my baby grow up it kills me, but how can I live like THIS? In agony all the time, 

 

Rhji, Alto, can I heal on this small amount?? will I make it? will I recover/? every day for 13 months I have just cried and been in agony, I feel so alone and im hurting so much I dont know what to do or where to turn, I need some comfort, im so desperate and I dont know what to do

[amiss]

Wait, 0.48 mg of citalopram? That's so tiny! The logical reasoning would be that certainly you can heal, and it's the best for you to be tapering so slowly. You had a window earlier, and that is proof that you mustn't overlook. You can only get better as you taper down, although it might not be apparent to you as you decrease, just trust in time. 

[Iggy131313]

im not going to taper anymore, I cant, and my back history is complicated, I am a very svere case, I had a wondow from the akathisia, does that mean it will go away one day? please god help me

[alex]

Hello Iggy;haven't heard from you for a while.

I do believe you are stuck between a rock and a hard place....(is that how you say it in english?)

Your fear and doubt about getting off the drug is killing you.

There isn't anything worse than not been able to take a decision.

If you decide to get off the tiny amount of med. you are taking now, do it with a positive attitude;HELP yourself and your body-mind to heal.

DON'T go on internet looking for negative, scary things!!

Please Caroline. God might help you, but you have to help yourself first.

 

Thinking of you from the "steaming jungles of Central America" (some US president said that)

[lexicon]

Caroline, where did you disappear to?

Missed your presence ..

I am so sorry that you are having difficulties ..Just hang in there,

and don't loose hope. Everyone heals..

Thinking of you ..

Happy you are here ..

Love, Lexi

[Skyler]

Hi Caroline... I'm sorry to hear you are in a down spot.  And you are still having those miserable doubts when things don't go well.  You are holding despite that troublesome inner voice, good for you.  You will make it, just see if you don't!

 

Skyler

[Iggy131313]

thanks guys, 

 

Lexi, I have been in a bad way and not able to post in fear that people will tell me I have to get off this last bit to heal, I cant bear anyone saying that to me.

 

thanks skyler, you always post for me and I appriciate it, i know Im not very liked here, but I need help and I need to post occasionally

[ladybug]

Yes, you are healing even if it doesn't feel that way. If the drug was making you worse then yes you would feel worse soon after taking your dose. I have been on these forums for years and I can tell you you are not the worse case ever. You are able to sleep and sit down right? I have read many horror stories and the worst of these were unable to do either for months on end. They healed. You are not going to suffer like this forever and this condition is not fatal. What actually helps me is I've been reading the blogs of young adults with cancer. Some of these people are in their 20's and on their third cancer diagnosis. They've been going through chemo for years, the side effects of which are truly horrifying. They would gladly trade places with any of us because OUR CONDITION IS NOT FATAL. They go through hell every day just for the chance to live a little longer, even when that life is guaranteed to consist of chronic pain, permanent nerve damage, etc. They keep fighting to live and you need to find the will to do the same. I understand, I am in a bad place too, and often think of ending it because I can't see it ever getting better but it's a LIE. What keeps me going is my death would KILL my mother and best friend, and I can't do that to them. It would do the same to your son and husband and they don't deserve that. Where there is life there is always hope! You were on this drug for a short time, you will heal! I promise you!

[wantrelief]

Hi Iggy,

 

So sorry to hear you are not feeling well and that the horrible akathisia is back.  It did sound like you were feeling better a few weeks ago and had some windows where even if you weren't feeling "normal" you were better than you had been.  It must feel so frustrating (probably an understatement) to feel like you are back to where you were before.  But you did experience a change for the better previously so that seems like a very positive sign that indeed you will heal while on this dose.  Don't worry about tapering until you feel ready, there is no reason to worry about that now.  It just doesn't make sense to me logically that one could not heal while on medication.  Eventually you will feel more stable and then can taper off but for now, please just hang on and know there are people in your "real" life and on-line life who care about you very much and are rooting for you.

 

Michele

[Petunia]

Hi Iggy,

I'm glad you are posting again, but I'm sorry its because you are still feeling bad.

 

You have had times when you have felt better, when symptoms have decreased and when you have gone out and enjoyed yourself, this means that you ARE healing.  It might not feel like it right now, because you are in a bad wave, but healing is happening.

 

It seems to take longer for some people, but that doesn't mean they don't heal, just that it takes longer.

 

You are on such a small amount of medication I don't think its making any difference one way or another, you are healing slowly, not because of the medication, but because you are healing slowly.

 

I'm on no medication.  My symptoms go up and down, bad and worse and it doesn't seem to be related to anything apart from my own internal pattern of healing...... too slow

 

When other people write things that upset you, ignore it, even people like Shipko.  No one knows the truth, or what will happen in the future.

 

Is your mum with you now?  How is your decorating project going?

 

Petu.

[Iggy131313]

I cant belive this akathsiia, its back and its strong and its constant again, I havent done anything different apart from going up on the fish oils, maybe its too much?

 

does having 4 weeks with no akathisia mean it will go away? if its permenant would it have been there all the time, Im sobbing and sobbing

[Skyler]

does having 4 weeks with no akathisia mean it will go away? if its permenant would it have been there all the time, Im sobbing and sobbing

 

Yes, you had a wonderful window.  I'm very sorry to hear it's back, but the akathisia will go away again, maybe even longer the next time. 

[annelle]

Hi Iggy,

 

I also took a lot of fish oil (appr 3000 mg EPA+DHA) a day, but started to get a sneaking suspicion that maybe it was too much, so I cut back to about 1000 mg a day for a few weeks or so, and I actually feel better. 

 

I also take magnesium citrate, so it is difficult to say which is helping.

 

I was (still am sometimes, but not as often) suffering from restless legs, which I know is not the same as akathisia, and cutting back on the fish oil - together with the magnesium citrate perhaps) has made it much better.

 

So maybe worth a try to cut back a little on the fish oil for a few days. Just a thought!

 

I am very sorry that you are feeling so awful - it must be terrible to have akathisia - I think I can relate somewhat because I used to have terrible restless legs and trunk and arms a few months back. I actually thought it might be akathisia at that point, because it was so bad.

 

Hope you feel better soon!

[Petunia]

 I havent done anything different apart from going up on the fish oils, maybe its too much?

 

does having 4 weeks with no akathisia mean it will go away?

 

Maybe it is too much, its hard to know.  I stopped taking it altogether for a few days and got depressed, so now I'm taking 1800mg again.

Daytime anxiety is still bad, but no akathisia at the moment.  But mine has gone away and come back before.

 

I keep searching for things which will make me feel better faster and I keep blaming increased symptoms on something I'm doing or not doing or eating etc.  But I think this is another cruel feature of WD, its so random and our mind tries to find some control and hope.

 

Your akathisia will stop again, like it did before, maybe it will go away and come back, slowly getting less and less.

 

Eventually, all your symptoms will go away and not come back at all.  I think its more about time and keeping life as stress free as possible.

 

Sobbing and crying is good, it releases stress.  I wish I could cry, but I seem to have lost that ability.

 

Be gentle and kind to yourself.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[Jemima]

I cant belive this akathsiia, its back and its strong and its constant again, I havent done anything different apart from going up on the fish oils, maybe its too much?

 

does having 4 weeks with no akathisia mean it will go away? if its permenant would it have been there all the time, Im sobbing and sobbing

 

This is a typical windows-and-waves pattern of recovery. Please read this:The Windows and Waves Pattern of RecoveryIt's very doubtful that increasing your dose of fish oil would have caused this. It seems recovery goes on in its own pattern almost regardless of what we do.  Withdrawal from antidepressants is NOT a permanent state.

[Brandy]

 

I cant belive this akathsiia, its back and its strong and its constant again, I havent done anything different apart from going up on the fish oils, maybe its too much?

 

does having 4 weeks with no akathisia mean it will go away? if its permenant would it have been there all the time, Im sobbing and sobbing

 

...

 It's very doubtful that increasing your dose of fish oil would have caused this. It seems recovery goes on in its own pattern almost regardless of what we do.  Withdrawal from antidepressants is NOT a permanent state.

 

 

I'll take the blame here for suggesting (in private correspondence) that Caroline try reducing or possibly eliminating the fish oil at this time.

 

Jemima, I wonder what your reference source(s) is for this statement.

 

I told her that windows and waves are very common and symptoms can come and go, usually with "wave" symptoms decreasing in duration and severity as healing progresses, but that although fish oil has helped many people, many others have found it too activating and even causing or increasing anxiety.

 

I told her that although unlikely, it's possible that the fish oil may be kicking up her akathisia and general anxiety and might not be appropriate or might be too high a dose at this time. Just an off-chance, but I didn't see any problem with her trying decreasing her dose and if warranted, discontinuing it. And that she could always updose or reinstate it later. (I have never seem people having a problem with that.)

 

Personally, I have never tolerated seafood of any kind, but I was desperate enough in acute w/d to try just small amounts of fish oil on several different occasions. I keep notes on symptoms and what I ingest (including foods) and there was a consistent pattern in each case in my case of w/d symptoms increasing within a certain time period after taking even relatively small dose of fish oil.

 

I attributed this to my overall sensitivity to seafood or to my more recent sensitivity to almost all supplements in w/d. but I read on various groups and have for years, and while everyone's response to fish oil or other substances varies considerably, I have seen that although people with depression often get notable relief with fish oil, others cannot tolerate the anxiety and apparent activating properties from it.

 

There are many posts about this in the fish oil thread on this site.

 

I agree that healing from these meds is bafflingly non-linear. In my case (I have very extreme sensitivities as well as allergies), I've found that in some - not all - symptoms changing what I do makes a very big difference, not only in classic allergy symptoms but often in w/d symtpoms. I realize my case is unusual and I have always been prone to allergies and autoimmune diseases, so I am not in any way suggesting that what helps me is something all or even most people should do. 

 

I suggested to Caroline that she try at least reducing her dose as an experiment, and see what results are over time (to rule out the coincidences that certainly occur in non-linear w/d healing). I certainly have largely recovered without fish oil (or any seafood product), so it's not essential, though I agree that it helps many people at certain times in their healing process, which is wonderful.

[ladybug]

Even small amounts of fish oil ramp up my anxiety and give me feelings of restlessness so I don't see why it's so implausible. Many people in WD have the same experiences with fish oil. Like with any supplements, it might work great for some, but others are unable to tolerate it. YMMV.

[Brandy]

Too late to do an edit on my post above, but wanted to clarify a couple of things.

 

First of all, I wasn't criticizing Jemima's post. When I asked about reference sources, I thought she might have information I wasn't aware of. I like to be as accurate as possible and want to be aware of things I'm not familiar with. Especially because I have seen few if any posts specifically linking fish oil and akathasia.

 

Rather, I have seen numerous posts in various places linking fish oil to anxiety and to being activating neurologically. That is why my suggestion to Caroline (when she asked about the fish oil) was that she see if it might be triggering or exacerbating the akathisia. Akathisia is a specific iatrogenic phenomenon, but it does manifest slightly differently in different people sometimes.

 

As a matter of fact, that was something Alto suggested to me (in private message) long ago when we were both new to w/d on "another group." She suggested that a severe symptom I'd even prior to being on paxil (but had been on many meds affecting the nervous system) might be a "form of akathisia" in that it involved certain sensory triggers making it virtually impossible to stay still. That deduction on her part has been invaluable to me and is very likely true, even though it manifests slightly differently than the non-stop akathisia I experienced in paxil w/d.

 

And the word "blame" at the beginning of my post was supposed to be in quotes and tongue-in-cheek of course.

 

Most importantly, I came back to try to edit my post to clarify the poor wording in my sentence, "...and while everyone's response to fish oil or other substances varies considerably, I have seen that although people with depression often get notable relief with fish oil, others cannot tolerate the anxiety and apparent activating properties from it."

 

I did not of course mean to suggest that people only get relief from depression with fish oil, or that other people always get exacerbation of anxiety and other symptoms. Absolutely not. But I was suggesting that although people have varying responses to just about anything, that I have become aware of a frequent pattern where the apparent activating properties of fish oil are beneficial to those with depression, some (not all) people with anxiety and (in my case at the time), akathisia may find those same properties unwelcome.

 

Again writing a mile a minute and accuracy is important to me, so if I wrote anything unclear or baffling (lol) in this post, please let me know. I want to contribute to discussion, never to confuse or mislead in any way.

[Jemima]

My comment about fish oil generally not being activating is based on my observations as a member, mod, and admin on this forum.  Considering how little scientific research has been done on antidepressant withdrawal syndrome in general, I doubt there's anything at all of that nature regarding the effects of fish oil on symptoms.

[Iggy131313]

I have tracked that I get even worse in the latter half of my period and after for a few days, of course I am in deepest hell all the time, but during this time I become bed bound and unable to function at all, i get very confused and my brain feels very swollen and well, there are no words/

 

does anone ahve any suggestions to what could help, could there be any reason that it is the latest part of my period that makes things worse?

 

im hanging on my a thread, really, and i need some relief, my life in once again in massive danger

[Petunia]

I've also spent the last 2 days in bed, unable to function, but for me its not hormone related.  I would think your pattern is connected with your hormone levels.  I also get very confused when symptoms get worse, confusion, terror and hopelessness, added to a bunch of awful physical symptoms.

 

Last night I took an aspirin, out of desperation really, had been reading something about inflammation and I remembered how recently when I had taken one for a headache, it had seemed to help me feel more relaxed in general.  It did help, I had a slightly better night last night, less sweating and hot flashes.

 

I know its really hard to accept, but if you are bed bound and not functioning at the moment, then that's what's happening.  You will feel slightly better in a few days.

 

I wish I had more to offer, but you are not alone in going through this torture. You will recover, but you have to keep going and let the recovery process take its course.

 

Stay with us Iggy, the world needs all the success stories it can get and yours is going to be vary valuable to lots of people in the future going through protracted withdrawal.

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Iggy,

 

Here in the US. there are semi-alternative doctors that work with women's hormones. Do you have that in the UK? You've certainly had enough stress to throw yours off. Also, would acupuncture be available to you? We're pulling for you, girlfriend!

[Iggy131313]

Life is so unbearable, s much torture, every second I pray for death.

 

what bothers me the most, outseide the realms of my own pain and suffering, is can I heal while I am still taking this 0.48, Alto says my cns is recovering while I take it, alto please if yo cn, can you please reply and reassure me that I could make a full recovery on this dose and then taper off it if and when I chose to? so many people tell me that healing cant happen while I am taking it, and im really confused.

 

I have been holding for 3.5 months now and not improved, symptoms have changed and come back, new symptoms have arrived but there is no improvement, some change here and there but nothing that could be called a step in the right direction.

 

PLEASE tell me if I can heal on this 0.48? is that possible, and I mean can I feel normal, I know that my brain will still be dependant on the 0.48, but can I get better, feel better?

 

Alto, I know you find me very annoying, and I know your right, I annoy myself, but I beg you to reassure me if you can, im in desperate need, am one of the MOST severe cases I have ever seen and I need a little hope, if I have nothing else, and I dont, I need some hope, and if I need to come off this small amount before I can begin to count my recovery, well then hope is lost.

 

Im gonna ask the Dr for a hormone workup, and also an mri, I can acctually FEEL parts of my brain dying, the pain, it feels like my brain is far too big for my head and is pushing against my skull, I have sensations like a worm moving through my head, my brain goes ice cold, and then burns, i have 'wet' feelings like an egg has been cracked on my head.

 

I alternate between INTENSE akathisia, where I will have it unbearably but not many other symptoms, then that will change into MASSIVE DP/DR and severe free flaoting anxiety, I feel so drugged up and intoxicated, I struggle to move from one room in the house to another, I am overwhelmed by everything, including moving my limbs, I am mostly bedbound, mostly housebound, when I do force myself to go to the shops, I cry and cry as I feel so terrible, so aggitated, so anxious, and not in normal terms, beyond belief.

 

when the akathsiia went away for 4 weeks through July, it was just replaced with massive anxiety, unbearable, and this intoxicated dr/dp, I cannot live, I dont even exsist, I suffer and desperatly fight to make it through each second, and I have been in this state for 14 months.

 

I know its not as long as many epople, but this level of suffering for so long with no hope, and with the added fear of the fact I am being told that my real healing doesnt even start until the drug is gone, and Im unable to taper without feeling alot worse, just makes me give up this battle.

 

I desperatly dont want to die, but I see no other choice, its die, or live like this, living like this is not an option, especially if the 14 months I have done counts for nothing, and especially if Im not really at the start of my healing until I have the drug out of my system.

 

I look at my son and I greive for him, I know next year he will no longer have a mother, and I will never watch him grow up, never hold him, my heart is broken, on oh so many levels.

 

If only I had known when the withdrawal hit me after CTing the celexa 2 years ago, at 5 months, if I had only known what was happening to me, and not tried to take the celexa again, and not had such a violent reaction, I wouldnt have been such a severe case, but I did, and now I dont know what hope is left, especially as im still taking this poison, and everyone says until Im drug free I cannot fully recover.

 

I dont know what to do other than die, I dont see any other option for me.

[Claudius]

Please Iggy stay with us.

I am an equally severe case as you, and also for me counts that I made -being totally uninformed by the "doctors" - the wrong decision to cold turkey, get sick, re-instate, cold turkley when I felt well again and was a prisoner of this deadly vicious circle for several years befire entering the utter hell if the protactred WD.

It took me years to feel a little better but I know there IS healing.

 

I am not sure whether healing still occurs when taking a small dose, but I think you will be able to taper off that dose and continue recovery. Maybe it will consume some mre years and losing 5 or 6 years of your life due to WD is surely not something to forget soon or think easy about, but there is no reason to believe that you can continue a new life afterwards.

I saw you on Facebook being a friend of Charly G. if you want to add me and drop a line frmo time to time: https://www.facebook.com/klaas.vangelder.1

[Iggy131313]

I cant taper off, and if I camt recover while I take it, then I cannot live. I can bearly live now.

 

but thanks Claudious, its nice to hear from you./ 

[Iggy131313]

and I cant face another 5 or 6 years of this, really I cant

[Iggy131313]

Alto, I beg you to just answer that one question, please, can I recover with this small amount in my system? and then chose what to do next? I need hope so badly

[Meimeiquest]

Iggy, I think she's said yes before.

[Iggy131313]

really? do you think thats what she said that I can heal while I take it? Im not sure if she saying I can improve a little before I have to taper again, or if I can recover while I take it and then make a desicion, I dont know what to do and Im in such agony

[Karma]

Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:48 AM (by Alto)

Yes, you will need to recover from withdrawal syndrome no matter how you taper off 2.5mg citalopram. How long this will take is unknown.

While you are stabilizing on that small amount of citalopram, your nervous system is recovering. In addition, that small amount of citalopram is helping to preserve your sleep.

 

Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:12 PM (by Alto)

I haven't added Dr. Healy to the list because he is very difficult to get an appointment with. You are very fortunate, Iggy. This is one reason we are so interested in your discussions with him.

Now, you realize you are asking the same questions over and over? Yes, you will gradually recover.

I know the withdrawal anxiety is driving this, but I can't type the same thing over and over. Please read this topic again when this question comes up in your mind.

 

Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:52 AM (by Alto)

Yes, you will need to recover from withdrawal syndrome no matter how you taper off 2.5mg citalopram. How long this will take is unknown.

While you are stabilizing on that small amount of citalopram, your nervous system is recovering. In addition, that small amount of citalopram is helping to preserve your sleep.

Please stop focusing on 2.5mg citalopram being the root of your problems. Your problems are because you tapered too fast and your nervous system is in an uproar. The nervous system thrives on stability. Give it stability, not more uproar.

While you are stabilizing on that small amount of citalopram, your nervous system is recovering.

 

 

 

[Petunia]

I'm not Alto, but this is my opinion from what I've learned over the last several months.

 

You are in protracted withdrawal from your CT quit.  Reinstatement didn't work, so that's evidence of that.

 

You started to heal from the moment you stopped taking 20mg.  Everything else has just been the random waves and windows of recovery.  Maybe not completely random because they may be made worse by stressful life events, hormonal changes and things like that.

 

Hang in there, this is just another bad wave, with all the negative, hopeless thinking which goes with it.

[flower]

I so feel your pain Iggy. Is there anything your Doc could help you with? ....Thinking of you .

[Iggy131313]

thanks Guys, no theres nothing my dr can help me with, if there was anything that helped with this Im sure it would be all over the sites, the only my dr would do would be to try and give me more drugs and I know that wont help, my symptoms are not depression etc, its damage deeper than I can express

 

thanks for the reminder karma, I just worry that alto means gets more stable before coming off and then heal after that

[lexicon]

Thinking of you sweet Iggy ..

I am sorry that you are dealing with some bad moments ..

But please remember that we must. "keep walking " ..

Recovery will happen, we must never loose sight of that, or of hope..

So hang in there, I am right there by you ..

Sending you love, and hugs ..Lexi

[Iggy131313]

things have gone from hell to worse....its been 15 weeks to my hold and I have not seen any improvemnt at all, nothing, I am still in a hell I could nevr describe, I am non functional, my main symtoms are

 

SEVERE anxiety/fear/panic

SVERE akathisia

SVERE dp/dr

SEVERE dizzyness and vertigo

SVERE fatigue

I feel overhwlemed and unable to do the most simple of tasks like walking from one room to another, my head is constantly full and hurts it feels like my brain is pshing against my skull, i feel like my brain is dying

 

SUICIDAL ideations, every second of every day

visual and audiroty hallucinations - thse are back

 

I spend my days laying on my bed trying to escape reality, trying to find a safe place in my mind where I can exist but i am the most severe case I have ever seen or read about and the prognosis is not good

 

this most recent wave, ontop of my hellish state started 2 week ago, 18 months from my origional CT before the adverse reaction, could this be the 18 month wave I have seen others talk about? maybe I could feel a little better after this wave?

 

all I want at this point is to die, im done hoping to reciver, I know this is not possible, not from this, its all too severe, I cannot explain, there are no words to express how severe a state I am in, I just want to die so much, so much