Help777: journal

[SquirrellyGirl]

Help777, rather than churn things up even further with another med change, I think it best to hold tight.  It is great news that you had that window, a very good sign.  

 

I have to ask about the crying, rage, thrashing and sobbing.  To me this sounds like you are fighting hard against the withdrawal.  We all get weepy at times, and today I myself felt irritable, easily angered, but I acknowledged that it was a little wave and didn't make more of it, just took some deep breaths and carried on.  So, it very much matters whether or not you are agonizing and fighting against the symptoms as they pass through.  Please try to practice some compassion towards yourself when the neuro emotions come up, acknowledge that they are due to withdrawal, and try to let them float on by.  This too shall pass.

 

I found this page on Claire Weekes earlier today and think it very applicable to your situation even though she focused on panic and fear.  Well, those are part of this so it's all good.

 

http://www.anxietycoach.com/claire-weekes.html

 

And of course there's all the good stuff here:  Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

SG

[SquirrellyGirl]

If you haven't seen this video, Help, I think now would be a good time to watch it :-)

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9103-healing-from-antidepressants-patterns-of-recovery-a-video/

 

SG

[Help777]

It sounds like you know me.

I can't thank you both enough. What you're saying and offering is beyond helpful. I'm trying all these suggestions with everything I have.

[SquirrellyGirl]

You can do this, and I'm glad you found my responses helpful.  Withdrawal plays tricks on us, and it can be very hard to recognize.  So, we just have to keep helping you see it and find ways to cope.  I like seeing wd symptoms as signs that healing is taking place; puts a positive spin on it :-)

 

SG

[Help777]

Is there a safe med i can take prn for crying bouts and anger rages? I am getting so drained from these symptoms. They are lasting 3-5 days at a time before a very brief window.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Help777-- No there is not.  Although they are a great nuisance crying jags are a very important part of WD.  It has been found that crying is a very important function of mental health.  It is the bodies way of releasing tension and readjusting all the neurotransmitters when they get out of sorts due to over active emotions. For us that means that our emotions are trying to sort themselves out, which in many cases means we still have emotions and they're trying to show themselves.  All of which are really good things. They can be quite draining because emotions take a lot of mental and physical energy.  We have to adapt our lives around them to a degree because until we are recovered we're stuck with them.

 

As far as the anger issues go I posted this in response to a question from Cymbaltawithdrawal7600:

 

Hey CW.  Yea, I made up the term. I've been a technical writer for years so everything needs a descriptive title.  I've written about it several place I think I even copied some of the posts into my intro thread, but I usually tailor them to the particular threat I'm on.  There are pretty much four steps: 1) identify that it's happening, 2) defuse the situation, 3) change the channel, 4) go on with life.

 

Identifying the situation can be hard at first because it's very natural to fall into the spiral.  A person needs to go through the entire cycle several times to identify the pattern and understand the progression.  I find that I am several minutes into the pattern before I realize that it's happening again. Learning what ones triggers are is a good place to start and previsualizing situations where those triggers might occur.  That way a person can "keep on guard" when those situations arise. It's frequently the little things that set it off.  Getting cut off in traffic, a coworkers off comment, someones tone of voice.  When a spiral has ended I try to go back and coldly analyse it to see what the trigger was for future reference.

 

Defusing the situation is very important especially in "confrontations".  This is a matter of self preservation because things have a bad habit of escalating to violence, and that has a lot of ramifications.  The person who is angry is often deemed the "bad guy".  The one who hits first is always in the wrong, and the like. Because we're in the anger spiral that put us in the center of things and according to society we have to "control our selves".  So finding ourselves in a bad situation caused by our anger spiral we have to take control and make things right.  Trying to talk out way out of it won't work, the spiral is in control making it so we can't think clearly.  The best bet is to just walk away. It is much better to be seen as rude than violent.  Turn, walk away, relax, regroup and if necessary reapproach the subject from a different angle (work related things you just can't get out of) otherwise drop it and move on.

 

The key aspect of the anger spiral is ruminating thoughts.  Once the trigger happens it sets off of series of mental events that build out of control. There is the initial trigger which is frequently followed with a small flash of anger and then dropped.  A few minutes later the ruminating kicks in with an "I should have..." followed closely by "that's like when....." "those b******s" "I always get treated like this..."  all these thoughts swirling around and compounding each other.  This builds until there is an explosion.  Changing the channel at "I should have..." is the best way out, but it can be done effectively at any point in the spiral.  As soon as one realizes that the spiral is happening changing the channel is called for. I frequently use a stern "don't go there" close my eyes, deep breath and concentrate on what I'm doing.  While distracted I do deep breathing and progressive relaxation to regain control of my body.  I can take several tries to get control back and I need to keep an eye on things so the spiral doesn't try to sneak in several hours later.  This is the part that takes a lot of practice but with time becomes second nature and very effective.

 

Once the spiral has been broken it is best to just go on with life.  The event happened, it was controlled, it's in the past, move on.  Later, after things have had a while to calm down, the situation can be reviewed in a rational manner to understand how it progressed and what worked to defuse it.  It now becomes a learning situation.  During this analysis it is important to use a cold eye so as to avoid retriggering the spiral.

 

It's not just for anger, these techniques work in a lot of situations including crying jags.

[Help777]

Hi Help777-- No there is not. Although they are a great nuisance crying jags are a very important part of WD. It has been found that crying is a very important function of mental health. It is the bodies way of releasing tension and readjusting all the neurotransmitters when they get out of sorts due to over active emotions. For us that means that our emotions are trying to sort themselves out, which in many cases means we still have emotions and they're trying to show themselves. All of which are really good things. They can be quite draining because emotions take a lot of mental and physical energy. We have to adapt our lives around them to a degree because until we are recovered we're stuck with them.

 

As far as the anger issues go I posted this in response to a question from Cymbaltawithdrawal7600:

Hey CW. Yea, I made up the term. I've been a technical writer for years so everything needs a descriptive title. I've written about it several place I think I even copied some of the posts into my intro thread, but I usually tailor them to the particular threat I'm on. There are pretty much four steps: 1) identify that it's happening, 2) defuse the situation, 3) change the channel, 4) go on with life.

Identifying the situation can be hard at first because it's very natural to fall into the spiral. A person needs to go through the entire cycle several times to identify the pattern and understand the progression. I find that I am several minutes into the pattern before I realize that it's happening again. Learning what ones triggers are is a good place to start and previsualizing situations where those triggers might occur. That way a person can "keep on guard" when those situations arise. It's frequently the little things that set it off. Getting cut off in traffic, a coworkers off comment, someones tone of voice. When a spiral has ended I try to go back and coldly analyse it to see what the trigger was for future reference.

Defusing the situation is very important especially in "confrontations". This is a matter of self preservation because things have a bad habit of escalating to violence, and that has a lot of ramifications. The person who is angry is often deemed the "bad guy". The one who hits first is always in the wrong, and the like. Because we're in the anger spiral that put us in the center of things and according to society we have to "control our selves". So finding ourselves in a bad situation caused by our anger spiral we have to take control and make things right. Trying to talk out way out of it won't work, the spiral is in control making it so we can't think clearly. The best bet is to just walk away. It is much better to be seen as rude than violent. Turn, walk away, relax, regroup and if necessary reapproach the subject from a different angle (work related things you just can't get out of) otherwise drop it and move on.

The key aspect of the anger spiral is ruminating thoughts. Once the trigger happens it sets off of series of mental events that build out of control. There is the initial trigger which is frequently followed with a small flash of anger and then dropped. A few minutes later the ruminating kicks in with an "I should have..." followed closely by "that's like when....." "those b******s" "I always get treated like this..." all these thoughts swirling around and compounding each other. This builds until there is an explosion. Changing the channel at "I should have..." is the best way out, but it can be done effectively at any point in the spiral. As soon as one realizes that the spiral is happening changing the channel is called for. I frequently use a stern "don't go there" close my eyes, deep breath and concentrate on what I'm doing. While distracted I do deep breathing and progressive relaxation to regain control of my body. I can take several tries to get control back and I need to keep an eye on things so the spiral doesn't try to sneak in several hours later. This is the part that takes a lot of practice but with time becomes second nature and very effective.

Once the spiral has been broken it is best to just go on with life. The event happened, it was controlled, it's in the past, move on. Later, after things have had a while to calm down, the situation can be reviewed in a rational manner to understand how it progressed and what worked to defuse it. It now becomes a learning situation. During this analysis it is important to use a cold eye so as to avoid retriggering the spiral.

It's not just for anger, these techniques work in a lot of situations including crying jags.

[Help777]

Thank you. I will try to do that and remember that. It is good info and makes sense it is just so hard to do anything other than run to my room crying when I feel that trigger of anger or sadness hit.

My doc is suggesting seroquel prn. He says it will help for the next few weeks while the worst of my symptoms are hitting. Has anyone had success with short term use of seriquel?

Thank you again for your advice. I will keep trying.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Yikes, Help, Seroquel is a nasty antipsychotic!  We never recommend adding more psych meds to aid with symptoms of withdrawal - I can't think of a single case where someone did that and it was a good thing, short term or not, because it is going to cause big swings in neurotransmitters from day one, and what you need is stability.

 

I'm sorry to yank away a bit of hope, but we would be making such recommendations all the time if we had the evidence that it was actually sure-fired beneficial.  This forum is riddled with people whose doctors played such moves with their withdrawal.

 

Hopefully Shep will chime in since she is very experienced with Seroquel.

 

SG

[Shep]

Thank you. I will try to do that and remember that. It is good info and makes sense it is just so hard to do anything other than run to my room crying when I feel that trigger of anger or sadness hit.

My doc is suggesting seroquel prn. He says it will help for the next few weeks while the worst of my symptoms are hitting. Has anyone had success with short term use of seriquel?

Thank you again for your advice. I will keep trying.

 

Hi, Help.

 

Three things to consider before using Seroquel:

 

• The maker of Seroquel, AstraZeneca, paid massive fines for off-label marketing for insomnia, anxiety, and other off-label uses:

New York Times - For $520 Million, AstraZeneca Settles Case Over Marketing of a Drug

 

Please note the side effect profile for Seroquel including the risk of developing diabetes and gaining weight. 

 

• Seroquel can cause dependency, even when used prn. This means another taper and many people experience rebound insomnia, mood changes, and anxiety. I also had a lot of GI issues and burning skin during my Seroquel taper. Others on this forum have reported similar withdrawal reactions. 

 

• Many people report paradoxical reactions to Seroquel. This means you may find yourself trapped on a drug that not only no longer helps you sleep, but makes your insomnia, mood changes, and anxiety worse when you try to come off.

 

Please read through this thread:

 

Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)

 

There is a discussion about paradoxical reactions. Somewhere in that thread, I wrote about it turning paradoxical on me. 

 

So these are things to consider, and as SG posted, we don't recommend adding more psych drugs to handle the withdrawal of other psych drugs. It's a vicious cycle. And when your CNS is already compromised, your reactions to new drugs is unpredictable. 

 

The best recommendation is to hold or even do a small updose if symptoms get unbearable. This would be better than adding on additional medication. 

[Help777]

Thank you SG and Shep. I am not going to even try seriquel. What about melatonin? Are there side effects or dangers with that during withdrawal?

[Help777]

Hi again,

It looks like melatonin does increase serotonin. Would this be a contradiction for use during wd?

Thank you for your input.

[Shep]

Melatonin is a safer way to go, but there is still the chance of it turning paradoxical, so please research this first. 

 

This is a really good thread on how to use melatonin safely during withdrawal:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/189-melatonin-for-sleep/

 

If you do try it, start out very low at .25 mg to .50 mg as Alto writes in that first post.

 

Also, check out the information on these threads:

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

 

Guided Meditations, Calming Videos, Sleep Hypnosis

 

I'm using a lot of the mindfulness meditations and having some luck. Withdrawal insomnia can be brutal, but it's temporary. 

 

I hope this helps. 

 

 

 

[Shep]

Hi again,

It looks like melatonin does increase serotonin. Would this be a contradiction for use during wd?

Thank you for your input.

 

 

Alto addresses this here:

 

Fears of serotonin syndrome from taking melatonin with an antidepressant are somewhat overblown. There was a fad a while back of melatonin as a youth pill with people taking excessive amounts of melatonin, perhaps that's the danger. If you take a reasonable amount, less than 5mg (see the first post in this topic), I doubt it would be a problem.

 

[Help777]

I'm trying all of these techniques that have been suggested, diffusing, walking away. But even when I'm alone and there are no "triggers" i can start crying for hours on end. I mean an hour at a time, a small window where i lay exhausted on my bed from crying only to begin sobbing. After hours I can come out if my room and be triggered pretty quickly by a loud noise, my kids fighting or whining, being bumped in the kitchen, anything. Then I experience this sudden rage and I quickly return to my bedroom to let it out and scream into a pillow or cry. This has been daily for 3 weeks now. Do I keep persevering or I should I try reinstating a few mg of prozac? I feel weak.

[Help777]

Or, should i increase the lithium to help with these wd symptoms? Or, is the level of distress something that is experienced by others and I should just persevere in hopes they will ease up a tiny bit soon?

[SquirrellyGirl]

Doing a quick scan of your thread, I realized that you have come off Prozac way too fast on the heels of coming off Effexor very fast.  See this entry from mid May:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11809-help777-journal/?p=225858

 

How you went from beginning to taper Prozac to being off Prozac in a little over two weeks is shocking to me.  I think this is a big part of the problem, and I'm sorry that I didn't catch this earlier.  We've just had so many new people join the forum, hard to stay on top of everyone.

 

I know the crying spells have been going on for some time.  Are they triggered by something, a thought or somebody saying something, or are they completely spontaneous?  I think you are in withdrawal from both Effexor and Prozac and nothing else that you can take is going to remedy this other than one or both, since you came off so fast.  I need to check with the other mods.  

 

Back in April you were feeling a lot better after reinstating Effexor to 29 (beads?):  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11809-help777-journal/?p=220258

 

Can you see that your speedy tapering has undone that?  That was back at the beginning of the month so two full months ago.  Let me discuss this with the mods before you do anything else; do NOT mess with your lithium dose, please!

 

SG

[Help777]

Hi SG, I can see how I've created the perfect storm. I was just convinced that Prozac was making me agitated and Effexor was causing mood instability. The crying started over the last few months but have been basically constant minus one small window for about 3 weeks. I'm off work maybe for one more month. I will await your and others' advice. The crying is brought on by a thought or someone saying something or even a noise.

[btdt]

When did you have the window.. the window is good evidence if you had one you can have more.  I have cried a lot and it did not hurt me near as much as pills have... sorry to sound trite if it does but tears are at least a normal part of the human body... tears and water never killed anybody. I made that up from one of my mothers talking tos... she gave me about crying never changing anything... long ago... and water which I used as therapy in early wd... to get my stomach working. Both at least can't hurt you too bad. Not that I don't get the tears and anger disrupt your life but please think very carefully before choosing a drug over these two things... I am glad you said no to the antiphsychotic... wise move.  If you have to take something increase what your body already knows... another saying better the devil you know than the one you don't...ok done.

peace

[Help777]

I had the window about a week ago and lasted for about a day and a half. Then it was like the light was switched off and I was back in hell. I like your water and tear analogy but when I'm hit with tears in the last few weeks it is so full of distress and anger and depression that I want to die. I go down to my basement when it's really bad or drive to a field and just sob. I have never thought this before but I have asked God to take my life. I would never kill myself for the sake of my husband and kids but on these days I do not want to live any lnger. I don't know if that level of distress is shared by people here?? Or if it is short over. My dr says to persevere for 4 more weeks and he is convinced I will feel a significant difference by then. He gave me the script for seroquel which I've decided not to use.

[Help777]

My nerves just feel shot. A sound, a bump to my arm, a small frustration of something not going my way like dropping something, just throws me into emotional pain. I don't know how else to describe it.

[btdt]

Have you tried epsom salt baths... or meditation forgive me If I am repeating something said already and my memory does not have that info.... 

 

I talked to God a lot too sometimes I remind myself of any scripture I can recall and let that take the place of the crap in my head other times religious songs... sometimes I can recall either... and just pray.  Pray and a lot of other things got me this far... deep relaxation was the first thing that worked for me.. and it wasn't a guided meditation at all as I could not stand words or music... it was the ocean and my back propped up on pillows... no light - heating pad on my spine and head phones with the ocean... 

 

when I think back I likely spent many days in that position if I were to add up all the hours... whatever works as the saying goes.  

 

Have you looked in the self care part of SA for ideas of what may actually sooth you?

 

While we are all a bit the same we are all different too and the tools you find in that forum can actually become the tools that see you thru the rest of wd... 

 

We each have our own timeline for this healing the fact you have had one window again is some bit of proof to me that your body is indeed trying to heal and healing to some extent... don't let the other stuff fool you work is being done.  The body cannot heal itself as quickly as we think it is slow and serious about the work it does... not like the drugs which can take effect quickly. 

 

I wonder too about blood sugar have you tried any things to try to see if this is an issue a bit of cocconut oil may help... so I have heard.  It keeps the sugar more level or something... just an idea.  

 

I found early on I could not eat much but did a water thing in the mornings which was helpful ... 4 glasses of water on waking... there are many many things to try... I hope you spend some time reading self care. 

 

I wish you peace.

[btdt]

and this 

if you don't like the thought your having have another thought.... I just stole that from here

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5849-lets-pray-for-one-another/page-9#entry228986

 

or if it is thoughts your trying to control as they are the source of your troubles... 

 

 

watch intently for your next thought when it comes start over... this one was a golden egg for me but I had to work my butt off to get to work in the beginning once you have it it is golden...

peace

[Help777]

Thank you. I'm glad you're there. I will revisit self care and try some more strategies. I can't stand voices of music to meditate either. The ocean appeals to me. Being outside in the sun near water or green can be calming. Can I ask if this level of distress is common for wd? If you can relate, is it something that lessens over time or does it feels this bad at times still? Thank you for your suggestions.

[KarenB]

For myself, I noticed a real improvement once I got onto lower tapering amounts, and once plenty of time had passed to allow some settling .  It's so hard when you're in the thick of it, and I know how it can be impossible to see that it could improve - but it truly can.  The best you can do now is immerse yourself in gentle self-care.

[Altostrata]

What made you think that Prozac was making you agitated?

 

Why are you taking lithium?

 

Are you taking any other drugs?

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[SquirrellyGirl]

Thank you. I'm glad you're there. I will revisit self care and try some more strategies. I can't stand voices of music to meditate either. The ocean appeals to me. Being outside in the sun near water or green can be calming. Can I ask if this level of distress is common for wd? If you can relate, is it something that lessens over time or does it feels this bad at times still? Thank you for your suggestions.

 

I'm so glad that btdt was here for you.  I just got back from an evening out for my birthday, a lovely dinner with my hubby.  When he came home from work it would have been so easy for me to say 'never mind, I'm too tired to go out,' but somehow I rallied myself and said why not, it could be fun, and it was!

 

Yes, what you are feeling is normal for the bad waves, and it feels like it will go on forever, but it doesn't!  I've had those thoughts in the depths of WD, that I couldn't go on living like this, but now it is hard to believe I was there.  I did reinstate, but have been slowly tapering off since then and haven't been in those depths since.

 

The ocean, so peaceful and healing.  There is an app called Calm, Calm.com, that gives you the choice to do guided or unguided meditations, and you can choose the scenery and background auditory - ocean, river, lake lapping, rainfall, all very soothing.  Give it a try! 

 

SG

[Help777]

Thank you, Alto and SG. Do you think reinstating would help? My dr. Added lithium because he questioned whether i have bipolar II. In his mind the mood instability that the effexor was causing was proof of that. He knows I had trouble withdrawing from effexor twice before so he added prozac at the start of my effexor taper. And the lithium he thinks i will need for the rest of my life.

Re the agitation, it is hard to say if my increased irritability was from the effexor taper or the addition of prozac.

All I know is that the last few minths have been tough and the last three weeks unbearable, I feel so weak that I cant force myself to go to social events.

Happy birthday, SG. I'm glad for you that you enjoyed time out to celebrate. I hope I can get there too.

I hate having this pity party but I keep searching for an answer to ease some of this anger, irritability with no lasting success. I am taking magnesium. I stopped the fish oil thinking it was making me more irritable....again I can't prove if it was I just had to try something. Maybe I should add the t back in? I stopped it a few months sgo when my symptoms increased.

[Help777]

Someone turned on the light switch this morning and I feel some relief. Similar to my experience one week ago where i had a good day. I don't get it. I am keeping a log. For now I will enjoy this sweet feeling of relief from the constant crying and rage. I feel lighter, like the black cloud has shifted. I'm sure that black cloud will return but this morning I feel less inclined to reinstate if this is a small window I am having.

[Dan998]

Hello, Help777.

 

I had a quick read through your thread as requested. I don't think I can really add anything to what the moderators have already suggested. 

 

Your withdrawal symptoms could be partly from prozac, because you reduced the dose by 50% back in march, but it is also possible that what you are experiencing is due to effexor withdrawal, as you've been on that for many years and your brain has gotten used to it.

 

You asked my opinion on reinstating. I think that is probably a good idea as you are likely to get more withdrawal symptoms as the recently quit prozac slowly flushes itself from your system.

 

Your situation is complicated because Effexor is an SNRI. The prozac you were taking is a different class of drugs, an SSRI.

 

I'm not an expert here, so wouldn't know what drug or at what dose would be best for you. Hopefully, Alto or an experienced moderator will jump in with a suggestion.

 

You've probably read the reinstatement thread, but just in case you haven't, here is the link - About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

It seems that your doctor may also have misdiagnosed you with bipolar disorder, which happens quite a lot when people are withdrawing from antidepressants. I would question having to stay on lithium for life. However, don't CT the lithium, it will need to be slowly tapered too. 

 

btw, That was a very wise decision not to add seroquel to the mix.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Excellent reply, Dan.

 

I don't have the experience to say which drug would be subject to reinstatement so I will defer to Alto on that.  I concur with Dan that people are frequently diagnosed with bi-polar when in withdrawal because YES, we are experiencing mood swings, but this is not a REAL bi-polar worthy of medicating with a serious drug like lithium!  300 mg since September, you will have to taper that one slowly, but we'll cross that bridge later; the last thing you need to do is create even more destabilization!

 

Perhaps this video will help explain the windows and waves if you haven't already seen it (and if you have, maybe another viewing will help): 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

I'm glad you are having another window day!

 

SG

[SquirrellyGirl]

Oh, my understanding of Effexor as an SNRI is that the norepinephrine receptors aren't engaged much until you reach 150 mg and higher, so below that it is operating more as an SSRI.

 

SG

[Help777]

Thank you, Dan and SG. I was diagnosed with bpII before my taper. My dr felt I was experiencing mood instability that was being made worse by ssri's. He said when ssri create mood instability that this is an indication of bpII. Proof, if you will, that I have bp. That is why he had me start lithium, as he sees this as a better mood stabilizer for bp. I'm not sure what to think about whether this diagnosis is accurate. Since having a small window today I am not sure I should reinstate. Yesterday, after a week long wave I wondered if I should and hence I reached out to you experts here at SA. Thank you so much for your input and links.

[SquirrellyGirl]

So you were diagnosed before your taper but after you were ever put on ADs, 26 years ago, not before.  Anti-depressant use LEADS to rapid cycling, bi-polar, which doctors then treat with more drugs.  You haven't developed bi-polar as a new diagnosis; it is iatrogenic, caused by the drugs.

 

From this article:  http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/08/robert-whitaker-interview.aspx

Two Side Effects of Antidepressants You Need to Be Aware of

“There are two side effects or risks that really need to be addressed, and that everybody should be thinking about, that show up in the scientific literature,” 

Whitaker says. 

“The first risk is that you’ll convert from unipolar depression to bipolar depression.  

 One of the things we’ve seen with the use of the SSRIs is this incredible, extraordinary boom in bipolar diagnoses, and that is definitely tied to the widespread use of antidepressants. 

Now, in kids, something like 25 to 50 percent of all kids placed on an antidepressant, who stay on that antidepressant for five years, will convert to bipolar illness. With adults, it seems like about 25 percent of long term of users that begin with a diagnosis of unipolar depression will convert to bipolar.

Bipolar used to be a fairly rare disorder but now it’s becoming much more common. Why is this so bad? 

Well, when you convert from depression to bipolar, now you’re in a category where you’re often treated with a cocktail of medications including an antipsychotic medication, and long-term bipolar outcomes are really problematic in this country. 

Only about 35 percent of bipolar patients are employed. So you see this risk of disability.

 

 

Your doctor is simply wrong.  The BP is a side effect of long term AD use that he is treating with yet another drug.  Sorry to belabor the point but it's an important one.  Again, should you choose to, the lithium will have to be tapered separately at a much later time.  Do you feel that the lithium helped after it was started?

 

I am glad that you are having a window - that is a good sign.  You have up to three months to reinstate, sooner than later better, so I guess you could sit with this a bit longer to see how it develops.  But you need to get a lot of self-care in place if you are going to ride it out, because there will be more waves.  If the waves always throw you into panic, then reinstating is the better option.

 

SG

[Help777]

Thank you, SG. Your info is sinking in. I wished it did for my Dr. too. But at least I can embrace the goal of stabilizing from this withdrawal and then decide if I want to try a slow taper of the lithium.

 

I so much value all of your time and insight you are providing me, SG, BT, Alto, and all of the others. This site has been a Godsend.

[Help777]

Hi Jan,

Specifically I am wondering if you look back on your time on lithium and see any benefits emotionally. You mentioned the flattening and eventual suicidal ideations...i am taking that to mean it didn't give you any mood stability such as less anger, crying bouts, less irritability? Was it the flattening that led to si?

Thank you,

Help